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| http://www.startribune.com/outdoors/story/1392614.html |
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Posts: 193
Location: Mayer, MN | Where do I send flowers?  |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | That's why we have back-up brood stock lakes. |
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Posts: 5874
| That just makes me sick. What a waste, keeping those fish in a lake where they are at risk, just so they are easier to net in the spring. Exploiting the resource for personal gratification. No wonder there aren't any big fish in MN!
Oh, sorry. I lost it for a moment there. Actually, for those who like to see these fish as being smart, cagy, crafty? Here's their sign.
Edited by Shep 8/31/2007 8:31 AM
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Dang, we had a lot of fun on that lake, too! I'll chip in on the flower fund, I know some of those fish! m |
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| Shouldn't there be an aerator or at least an alum treatment to protect those muskies from this sort of thing. Seems like a pretty careless mistake and easily avoidable situation. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | An aerator large enough to prevent this event would need to be one big machine, and exactly how would one predict this happening? alum? |
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| Alum to percipitate phosphate and stop massive oxygen sucking algae blooms! I know you must have heard of it Steve! |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | "With the high water temperatures, the oxygen likely depleted overnight, and the fish didn't know how to escape," Peterson said. The DNR also found eight dead bluegills and six dead largemouth bass.
Oxygen depletion increases at night, sometimes causing fish to suffocate. The lake's oxygen levels also might have been negatively affected by recent heavy rainfalls. Large amounts of denser, cooler rainwater can sometimes suddenly displace and spread deoxygenated bottom water to areas that previously allowed fish survival."
Didn't say algae was at fault, or even suspected. |
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| So since the DNR didn't suggest it or mention it it couldn't possibly be a reason for the "summerkill". It does seem like they have the exact reason nailed down. My fault.
http://www.gofishbc.com/faq.htm
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| What is summerkill?
Depleted oxygen levels throughout the summer months can result in what is known as “summerkill”. The process by which this takes occurs is much different from that of winterkill. In general warmer water is able to hold less oxygen than cooler water. Warmer summer water temperatures can also result in large algae blooms in productive lacks. During daylight hours blue-green algae produce oxygen through photosynthesis, however at night they may revert to respiration, a process that consumes oxygen in the water. During the right conditions this can lead to dissolved oxgyen levels depleted to levels that are incapable of supporting fish and "summerkill" occurs. Also algae blooms can also be subject to large die-offs. Decomposition of the algae is another process that consumes oxygen and again if dissolved oxygen levels in the lake fall below threshold levels to support fish, a kill can occur.
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Posts: 2024
| Interesting idea, DJS. Water temperature is NEVER the sole factor in fish mortalities. It merely contributes to magnify all other sub-lethal stressors of which there are LOTS. Now, maybe the heavy rain + high water temps were significant contributing factors to make all other ones negligible, but I'd have to agree with DJS that the breakdown of plant matter (algae) is another contributing factor not mentioned in the article but that should warrant more attention. Unfortunately, I bet if you took a cost-benefit approach to employing an alum dispenser you'd find it's probably more "sensible" (whatever that means today) to leave it to chance for those fish to survive the summer months than spend mucho dinero on a fancy piece of equipment. Just a thought. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Of course I know about algae and oxygen depletion. It DID just rain very hard over there, right? The story and interview says that was a likely main factor, right? I'm going from the story, you are going with assumption and demanding aeration and alum treatments where it may not have done much good at all because the fish were in a foot of water. Aeration usually is placed in deeper areas.
Have you personally ever actually DONE anything for the resource? I see you being highly critical when you see the opportunity, but never see you working with anyone to accomplish anything. Raise the money for the system and treatment you think that water should get, work with the DNR, and make it so.
Or, just complain. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Well, since this is the first time that I or any of the West Metro DNR folks have seen this I don't think that investing $20,000+ on an aerator plus the expense of running it year after year would be a good investment. Especially since this was localized to one section of the lake. Our club has looked into aerators for our small rearing ponds that to put a system that would make a difference in that lake would cost a fortune.
It sucks that it happened, but 30-40 muskies is a drop in the hat considering how many are in that lake. There's probably 10-20X that many adult fish in there.
Like I said, that's why the DNR has back-up brood-stock lakes throughout the metro. Things happen in all aquatic systems and that's just a fact of life.
...and before I get blasted, I've talked with the DNR officials about this incident over a week before it found it's way here. There's nothing practical that could have been done. If we want to make a difference in this and other west metro lakes then we need to push for legislation that regulates these horse farms and the run-off of all agriculture in the area.
Edited by Muskie Treats 8/31/2007 8:53 PM
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| Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening Steve.
I think Treast would agree that it isn't quite as easy raising a little money and dumping a bunch of muskies in a new lake or for that matter even a lake that used to be stocked. It turns out the DNR doesn't like to be told how to do their business.
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It's always easy to look at a situation with hindsight, and blast somebody for not
taking action before something happened.
Is the DNR supposed to provide oxygen to all MN lakes, or just one?
Where would this money come from, who is going to decide which lakes are more important and why?
How are we going to pay for DNR employees to run around MN and monitor all our lakes to see which ones need to get the air turned on, or be treated with alum?
Summer kills have happened in MN long before we even had a DNR, they will happen again. It isn't a problem that is economically preventable, or even feasible to tackle on a statewide basis.
JS |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | DJS,
The story says what it says. Accusing your fisheries people over there of negligence because of an assumption of what might have occurred and what might have been done with absolutely no basis in reality is not very responsible.
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| small dose of peroxide is a good source of oxygen |
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Posts: 2361
| I think the losses aren't worth getting excited about, and my guess is that the situation is a very rare one indeed.
Southern ponds are much more susceptible to this, and it is rare down there. I just don't see it as an effect worth the effort or cash investment to prevent it. Available money would be better spent and I think there are other problems that might be worked on with a better return.
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Posts: 457
| It happens, has happened, and will continue to happen that an influx of cooler water into a warm body of water can and will cause sometimes a massive depletion of oxygenation.
It has happened on bodies of water all across the US.
While I'm not taking sides here, I have to say the argumentative, almost incitant, nature of your posts, DJS, does little to get your point across. You really don't have a valid argument, in this case. What the story says is what the story says. That's all you have to go by, anything else is just an assumption on your part. |
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| I am simply suggesting that perhaps the massive algae blooms that Lake Rebecca experiences could have been the cause of the summerkill. If that was the case then an alum treatment or an aerator could have averted the situation and it would be nice to see the DNR protect the brood stock lake. If you agree with the DNR's opinion on the cause of the summerkill and that is excactly what it is just an opinion then fine.
To suggest that their take is the gospel truth and that nothing could have been done is simply naive. It is perfectly OK to question government agencies who use our money for there operations in fact, no matter your opinion about said poster, you'd have to agre it is healthy and necessary. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Enough said? Hardly.
If, could...all conjecture.
Reality, DJS, reality. Treats posted reality. You suggest things that should be done according to YOU, without any support of your theories or any actual facts whatsoever; you don't suggest who will pay for your 'cures', who will monitor the situation, etc.
Not that questioning is a bad thing, we all question the DNR and other similar agencies sometimes. There is a big difference between questioning and attacking/accusing, wouldn't you agree?
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Posts: 299
Location: Nowheresville, MN | Algae, curlyleaf pondweed, Eurasin milfoil, coontail, phytoplankton, horses, cows, pee from the beach, rain, cool nights, and windy days all contributed to this. That system is so nutrient loaded that the only thing even conceivable would be to dredge the sediments and haul them out of there. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Too bad the fish were lost, but sounds like nothing to be done for it. |
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| Suddenly I know much more about the situation than sworall thinks I do and my post disappears. PRICELESS!!!!!!! |
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dead minnesota muskies