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Posts: 216
Location: Elk River, MN | I have sent them two emails within the past 2 months from their "contact us" page and have not received any response.
As I understand it, the chapter I am in does not recieve any assistance from Muskies Inc - the only monies to assist with programs are from chapter fundraisers.
I understand that Muskies Inc is the "umbrella" of all the chapter so strength is in numbers. I think it must be like the NRA, living in WI / MN we never really noticed any local benefits that the communities experienced but may be their help with the sport is at a higher level. Do you have any feedback on Muskies Inc?
The reason I am trying to contact them is that there is no chapter in NW WI and I have received emails from people with friends that want to start one. I have also talked with the local DNR and they are also willing to come and talk at meetings and think a chapter would be great. Do you know how to get someone from Muskies Inc to email or call back?
Thanks.
Don
Edited by dhacker 7/3/2007 12:20 PM
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Posts: 136
| Just sent a PM
The work MI does is defenitely realized in local communities beyond just the lakes we fish. | |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | a rant response ... it doesn't surprise me at all and i think you've hit the nail yourself. i'm not terribly impressed with the organization and what they do and how they do it at the international level either, but i am impressed with our local group, it's officers and what they do for our local waters here in the headwaters chapter area so i'm a member. i believe that this group would operate and continue to do what they do with or without the association to muskies inc.. i do however think it's a shame that more people don't rise up and call the rest out for what it is ... or isn't to the local club level though. it seems any contention or criticism of muskies inc. gets hit squarely so that it is quickly repressed.
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| Support from International is a topic that comes up often in our club as well... In your case, Don, I think its probably just a matter of getting your e mail into the right hands. Obviously, local issues are handled at the club level, and any outings/tournaments/etc. are funded at the club level as well. But starting a new chapter is something that I am sure there is a protocal for, and probably a specefic person that handles that. Let me do some digging for you.. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Muskies Inc is a very active organization, but is MOST active at the club level. Ever been to a International meeting?
I've personally been openly critical of the International here, and I can tell you they listen. Try contacting the Prez, he's a regular here and a great guy. | |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | I'm a bit confused, between the Headwaters Chapter in Eagle River and the Hayward Lakes Chapter in Hayward, you say, "there is no chapter in NW WI"?? First Wisconsin in Chippewa Falls, Central Wisconsin Chapter, and in Mn. there's Twin Cities, and Lake Superior (Cloquet, Mn). Looks to me like you can't swing a dead pike without hitting an MI chapter up there. Where did you want one? m
20 Wisconsin Between the Lakes
8 Wisconsin Capital City www.muskiesinc.org/chapters/08
26 Wisconsin Central Wisconsin www.centralwis.co.nr
6 Wisconsin First Wisconsin www.muskiesinc.org/chapters/06
30 Wisconsin God's Country www.lacrossemuskies.com
13 Wisconsin Hayward Lakes
12 Wisconsin Headwaters www.muskiesinc.org/chapters/12
35 Wisconsin Milwaukee Muskies Inc. www.milwaukeemuskiesinc.com
4 Wisconsin Titletown Muskies Inc www.titletownmuskiesinc.org
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Posts: 216
Location: Elk River, MN | Just talked with Adam (aka - CommonSense Guy) and we both agree we are in great chapters. In no way am I complaining about the chapter I am in - great guys, great work, and we all love the sport.
Adam gave me three phone numbers of Int members to call including Dave Cates. Thanks for any help esoxaddict - that's what I was hoping to get with my post was a little help.
BTW, thanks Adam.
Edited by dhacker 7/3/2007 1:06 PM
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Posts: 216
Location: Elk River, MN | Mikie - I am not looking to start a pissing match here. North Western WI I am referring to is west of Hayward - Polk, Burrnett, Barron counties - Lakes such as Yellow, Deer, Bone, Apple River, Wapagasset, Cumberland, WI area and others I probably don't know. | |
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Posts: 313
Location: On your favorite spot | Muskies Inc is all about the local level - I'm proud to be a member and enjoy being involved in all the local stuff we do.
Of course there's gripes, we're all musky fishermen! | |
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| Just talk to David Cates, and you can apply for new club membership. Work with our club if you have any questions. | |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Here's the email of the big cheeze:
[email protected]
I don't trust most "contact us" options on websites. IMOP they're unreliable at best.
If you have any questions feel free to drop me a line. If I can't answer the question for you I can get you in pointed in the right direction. Also consider talking to the Southern Cross Roads chapter. They just formed a couple years ago and they'll have a good list of do's and don'ts.
-Shawn
Edited by Muskie Treats 7/3/2007 1:59 PM
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Posts: 216
Location: Elk River, MN | I was able to get what I was hoping for. "Common Sense Guy" gave me some phone numbers and I just talked with David Cates. He is emailing me a packet of information. He is also provided the contact of the MI individual who is responsible for helping with "New Chapters". David was very helpful and was surprised that my original email inquires were not responded to.
David did say that Hayward was the closest chapter to this area and could understand why travel can sometime hinder peoples involvement. Hopefully the packet of information will help us with this possibility.
Thanks.
Edited by dhacker 7/3/2007 2:18 PM
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Posts: 79
| Hi I am a memeber of southern cross roads Chapter 54 we started a year ago I think we have around 50 memebers if you want pm me I will give you a phone number of or guys they would be happy to help you out since we are only a Year old www.michapter54.com
Gary | |
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| First WI is also out by you and have several members that fish the lakes and waters you mention. They might be an asset if contacted. Good luck with your new chapter, hope you become a Muskies Inc. activist. | |
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Location: Madtown, WI | If I remember correctly, I thought there was a club that used to exist in New Richmond but shut down to low members. I once lived in the area you described (my parents still reside there) and became a member of the Hayward Chapter. Sorry, if I travel that long to get to Hayward I'm not going to go to a meeting.... I'd be fishing. I agree another chapter could and should be in this area. The catch and release ethic is nearly non existent and I've noticed those who do practice CPR (potential MI members) are doing so in poor form. The best of luck to you! | |
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Location: oswego, il | Don, I think a Polk county chapter is a great idea. Getting a few more lakes in that area would be great too.
Taking a page from what Mr. Worrall said, attent an international meeting sometime and see what goes on. Alot of people have been critical but things are moving forward, albeit slowly but the discussions and necessary things are being hammered on and I think eventually things will be righted. As also what has been stated, the chapters are great and to me it is what makes M.I. for me. I am a proud member of chapter 39, the best muskies inc chapter there is!  | |
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| I joined the GB chapter, and then let my membership lapse. I gather that many of this group's initial members were members of a defunct musky club in the area. Just seemed really "clique-ey" and not in any way outwardly friendly. Check that, they didn't SEEM cliquey, they were cliquey. Pretty well established in their little friendship circles, and it was clear they had no room for anyone else, despite a fast-growing membership pool.
Sent the club pres a couple emails regarding suggestions I had for activities I felt would be worthwhile for the club to participate in. No once did I get a return email. Emailed him a picture of me with a fish I'd caught. No response. Sent another email. No response. Finally he responds when I emailed the picture and my lack of response to the guy who created the site, and CC-ed the pres on the email. That got his attention. I was invisible at the meetings. Every meeting it was like the first day at a new school, only I'd been to a handful of meetings already.
Volunteered to help out at their booth at one of the fishing shows. It was like I had open sores on my hands or something. Nobody wanted to shake hands and BS, much less the usual guy's greeting, which is a head nod and a "what's up." It was like I was invisible. I was scheduled to help man the booth, and there were about 3 guys milling around behind the booth, not a one of them said a word to me, or even made an effort of any kind to greet me, say thanks for coming, give me a task....nothing. I would try to make conversation with the guys in the booth, and they'd just grunt something back, or ignore the fact that there was a person there in front of them trying to make small talk.
Weirdest experience I ever had. Just totally shunned on all fronts. Can't say I've ever been shut out at any event of any kind like that before. I'd be curious to know if anyone else joined and then dropped. | |
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Location: Southern W.Va. | Been there with Muskies Inc. , didn't take me long to see that 99% of their support goes to the Minn.-Wisc. area( which I can understand because that's where the water is), but it didn't do me any good to send money for no return on my investment. They do good work but I couldn't see anything that was being used in my area, so no more money went to them.
Sorry to all their supporters but that's the way I looked at it
Mauser | |
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| I beg to differ about 99% of the money in Muskies inc going to MN and Wi. I'm on the board of directors of a MN chapter and we don't get crap from international! Best our members of our club can tell is that the only thing that the international cares about is there magazine and the two international meetings every year. Just my 2 cents worth, I do think that all of the local clubs are very active and mainly support themselves and are a great way to meet other anglers and learn alot about the lakes in the area. Good luck with your new club. | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I would like to answer the frustrations that you had with some questions for you. Did you try and shake the hands of the guys working in the booth? We appreciate the help any chapter member makes and would be more than happy to talk with you. I remember that day and as I recall you weren't at the booth all that long. I also remember the idea you had for a rod building class as a way to get a nice rod for a smaller price. Great idea but I was suppose to check up on it for you. How about checking it out on your own and presenting the idea to the group. That's a great ice breaker.
As far as the GB chapter being "clique-ey". I disagree anybody who has participated in any of our meetings would tell you that at most meetings everyone talks to everyone and if no one is talking to you it is your own fault. I have a lot of new friends that I didn't even know 2 years ago I would hardly say that is clique-ey. Sure there are people who have been friends for years that are members that will talk but that is the way it is in any club.
Titletown is a new chapter we are going through growing pains and is everything perfect? Hell no. We are trying however and we deserve that much credit. I challenge you to come to our next meeting on Tuesday night and air all of your concerns. We will listen and be respectful and try to learn from it. Our meetings are open to the public and we welcome EVERYONE. Next meeting is Tuesday at 7:30 at the Green Bay Yacht Club.
Jay Zahn
President Titletown Muskies Inc.
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Location: oswego, il | I do have to agree with what jazon said. I belong to FRV but I goto the Quad County Muskie Hunter meeting too and occasionally goto the Southside Muskie hawks meetings as well. I have met friends at all three places and have helped out all three clubs and was well recieved. Positive attitude is everything and a club is what you make of it. To me the club level is the best part of M.I. and why Iam a member. | |
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| Dear Frustrated:
Sorry to hear about your dilemma with the Titletown group. I joined their organization a little over a year ago and I must say that I am totally satisfied with all of the support that I have received from the President and other members when needed. I must admit that it is hard to get into the swing of things in a new group, but you must realize that some of the responsibility must lie with the new member. Sometimes you have to become a little more vocal on your own and do a few more things to get noticed. I feel bad because I have missed some of the recent meetings due to conflicts with other organizations/interests. But, I am still glad that they are an active chapter and that I am a member.
I have been affiliated in some fashion with three Muskies, Inc. groups in the past. I belonged to Hayward Lakes and was their Chapter Secretary for a number of years; I attended Capital City meetings when they were first starting out and acted as their secretary, on occasion, when I lived in the Madison area; I was the Green Bay area’s Chapter Secretary and even President (when we made a last ditched effort to rekindle interest in a struggling group).
The former group, started about 25 years ago, (the DEFUNCT one that you refer to), the Northeast Wisconsin Chapter of Muskies, Inc., did much to promote a viable muskie fishery in the Green Bay/Lower Fox River Valley area. In fact, along with Packerland Musky Club, Dave’s Musky Club, other Wisconsin clubs, support through the International, and the WDNR, that is one good reason why the area MUSKIE fishery is doing SO WELL at this time!
At the time that we had the group, it was determined that we wanted to show no real link or bond to PACKER CITY, as we were afraid that it would “disenfranchise” people of OUTER areas from joining the group. We had anywhere from about 250 members to about 60 members throughout time, if memory serves me correctly… The sad thing came to be that you would see all of the same dozen, OR SO, people doing all of the legwork and promotion for the chapter and all of the same 30 to 40 people showing up at meetings or events. With all of the competing interests in life pursuits for those doing all of the work, it was determined that we could not keep the group going and we disbanded.
I do remember a few of the NEW Titletown people from the OLD chapter, but I cannot say that I think that any are "clique-ey". I think we all have a tendency to develop our friendships based on perceptions of the people we interact with and to form small, friendly groups amongst larger organizations. I am thankful that these people (those doing the work to benefit the organization) have created the NEW chapter in the area and I believe that they are doing a wonderful job in WORKING HARD to GET IT ALL RIGHT!!! Please reconsider your position with Titletown.
As for the initial forum question regarding the contact person for starting a new chapter, please remember that many of the people in the organization are doing VOLUNTEER work and that they may have other duties and responsibilities that have to be prioritized or that command their attention at the time.
Don Swanson, Green Bay | |
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| Im a ver big supporter of muskies inc,,,however I think it would be of great benefit to have another alternative national muskie org too for the people who dont agree with MI,,We would especially benefit here in Minn where were trying to get more lakes,,,Im wondering 'why'nobody has had the ambition to start one??? Its alot easier now getting something started with multiple muskie websites 2 magazines dedicated to muskies,,3 major muskie expos and about 10 smaller shows. none of ths was available 40 yrs ago when MI was formed | |
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| Actually, about 20 years ago would be more appropriate for the start-up of the NEW (Northeast Wisconsin) Chapter of Muskies, Inc. I must have been thinking about my involvement in the Hayward Lakes Chapter at the time.
For the alternative group to Muskies, Inc. response about NEW Minnesota lakes with Muskies..., in Wisconsin we are limited to our actions for planting/stocking based on the determinations of the WDNR, lake associations, and private lake owners. We can suggest that certain lakes be considered for muskies, but are not able to just go in and plant the fish. | |
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| with any group or organization that people have an emotional investment in, the natural response to critical feedback (ie., the club is "clique-ey") is to become defensive and to say "no we're not!" although an understandable human response, it's unhelpful to the growth and improvement of the club.
regardless of your own beliefs about it, there's at least one person who experienced your club as un-welcoming. telling him he's wrong and it's his fault compounds the un-welcome sense he's likely to have from you. if there's one person who's willing to speak up, there are probably others with the same experience who aren't saying anything but won't come back to any more meetings either.
if an organization is interested in growing, the right thing to do is instead to say, "how did we let this happen?" and "what can we do to be better?" it's harder to do, but it's what it takes to grow your club and to make it as welcoming as you say that you want it to be.
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I agree with you Michael. I suppose you are right when saying you become defensive and want to say they are wrong. After I responded to the message I emailed everyone that I had emails for and asked them to read the thread and lets talk about it on Tuesday night.
Like I said we know we are not perfect but I also know that this particular person did not give me this feedback in person. He chose to post anonymously when I know he is a member of this board. I don't think that is fair to Titletown either both to the current members or someone who is thinking of being a member. Were a good group of people and all we are trying to do is make things better for Muskie fisherman in the Green Bay area. I think we are doing that and we welcome this particular former member back. This issue will be brought up at our next meeting. What more can we do.
Jay Zahn
President Titletown Muskies Inc. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The very word, Club, invites reactions like the ones above. Some folks are outgoing and find it easy to make new friends, others find it difficult and are more sensitive to immediate 'of the moment' experience. I've been to the Green bay meetings a couple times, and didn't see anything untoward or 'different' from any other club meeting. Same with the International meetings I've been to, Ducks Unlimited, Whitetails Unlimited, and many others.
There are groups of friends, associates, etc at every meeting, and it's sometimes pretty daunting to charge into the mix and become a part of what's going on. I USED to be really shy, and found that I felt unwelcome quite often. The key here is that at every meeting it's a good idea to introduce new members, and 'assign' a few folks to make sure any new member feels welcome and part of the club.
I'm certain MI will be what it is for a very long time. There will always be the controversy surrounding the International, but one needs to remember that an umbrella group is what has lent the ability to act in a cohesive manner. Independent clubs come and go, and are usually driven by one or two individuals; the really stong ones have 'legacy', most times, giving them 'legs' to last . The International is the 'steering committee' of MI, and I for one feel HUGE progress has been made through the last three selections for Top Brass. Dave is truly dedicated to making MI more of a 'club for the Muskie anglers' than ever before.
As I have said before...Don't like the direction of a club or group of which you are a member? You have two real choices that are constructive; meet with the Prez, express your concerns, and try to make things better, or run for the office next time it's up for election, and get 'er done yourself. Quitting is an option, that's for sure, but not a very constructive one. Democracy is what it is; expressing negatives about how things go without becoming involved to acquire change won't get anything changed at all.
That being said, what IS a guy to do if he feels 'shut out' or unwelcome? That welcoming committee is really important, and needs to be active with each new member for at least 6 meetings. My 2.5 cents, pancakes are ready and the walleyes on the Goon are calling me. | |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Welcoming new members is one of the harder things for most organizations (not just MI). Here's one of the issues. When the "established" members come to meetings they usually gravitate to their other friends. Not because they don't like new guys, but more because they go to the meetings to see their friends. Now think about the fact that some of these people have been coming to see their friends for decades and they can tend to get in a rut. Also, often times the people who run the meeting are busy trying to keep the wheels on the wagon so to speak. I know that I can be short with people sometimes, but I hope that they understand that it's a time constraint more then anything.
Our chapter is working on a membership retention plan that should help get new members "assimilated" into the collective group (pardon the Star Trek reference). That would include members that will look after some of the new guys as well as some special programs to get people to connect with others in the chapter. That being said, we're all a bunch of volunteers that are doing this because we think it's fun. Just like in real life not everyone in the chapter is out-going or friendly. Anyone joining MI or any other club needs to change their perspective appropriately when entering a group and seek out those types of personalities that mesh with theirs.
Even after saying all of that I know it's still hard. I quit MI two times. It was after I posted an online rant when Dick Pearson challenged me to make a difference that I gave it one more shot. It was Happy Hooker who got me to come back to the TC Chapter to give credit where it's due. Now I'm the President and I like to think I'm making it a better place for both new and old members alike. So what's the moral? Either you have to be persistent as nothing good comes easy or that I'm a thick-headed moron. It could be both
Frustrated, I say give it another try and see what happens.
Shawn Kellett
President
TC Chapter MI 01 | |
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| I'm not a social guy. Give me something to talk about, start a conversation, and I will talk your ear off. But if you don't say anything? You might get a nod and a grunt. I don't smile much. Words people have used to describe me:
Intense
Intimidating
Scary
"looks like he'd rip your head off if you look at him funny"
When I joined Muskies inc, I made it a point to just go up and talk to people. It's not an easy thing to do. What's my point?
I don't know you, so I can't say for sure, but it might just be YOU. Maybe, for whatever reason, you just don't come across as a guy who is friendly. Sure, there are little groups of friends, and maybe some of those really ARE kind of closed off. But I think once you get to know a couple people and people get used to seeing you around that you might look at Muskies Inc in a whole new light. | |
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Location: oswego, il | One thing our club did was appoint two of our board members as membership directors. One of their duties is to that of the new members, greeting them and seeing to what their needs of our club are and are met if possible. | |
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| Todd M.
Your an idiot and smell bad.
I've had the oppurtunity to work along side Jay at a couple of shows and if he is any reflection on his chapter I would join up in an instant. Jay and his wife were two quality people to get to know and I feel lucky to have met them. As for Jeff your not that intimidating at all. Five seconds after I or anyone else meets you and a person loses that fight or flight response thing. Folks like Todd, Jeff, and Jay are all people who represent the best of MI.
What we are really talking about is communication and the willingness to communicate. People are busy, hurried, and tired. So I feel it is up to the individual to make the most of his or her membership. Talk to each other let the board members in on your thoughts and feelings about your club. Don't shy away from conversations but become part of them. One of the best people at that very thing is Jeff. I've enjoyed a couple of brief but very informative chats with him. He would be welcomed in my boat anytime (despite the black cloud that looms over his head). Guys like Todd who have a natural talent for making a person feel at ease in our club is always there to answer a question and shake a hand. No we are not a perfect bunch but communication is a two-way street. Don't stop looking for answers or tips just because you might not get the fastest response or a person might be having a bad day. After all its just fishing and the last time I check fishing was a whole lot of fun.
Dave | |
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Location: Elk River, MN | Great idea ToddM. | |
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| m.i. is a great starting point for moosky hunters. here in canada we hace muskies canada. both groups have brought to the forefront the special meanings of muskies. sure some dont agree with all done as myself. but my hard earned dollars are definately spent in the right direction.. i recently was art the l.s.c. can am in june. i spoke to the m.i. president david cates. he seems to be a straight shooter with everyones thoughts in mind. the biggest part of any club or group is get involved. its sorta like the guy whom complains of elected officials but does not take the time to vote. get involved guys if you want your sport to flourish. | |
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| Overall the hard working individuals in M.I. are tremendous and have done a world of good. Perry Smith, Kermit Benson, Gil Hamm, etc..... have helped facilitate and empower LOCAL Chapters and individuals to do the heavy lifting and to create the value of this entire effort. The horsepower, significance and value-added is 99.998% local individuals doing hard work and .002% International helping to support and empower the hard-working people in their communities (who make up the "chapters"). That's the only sustainable way this organization will continue.
So yes, by all means - don't even attempt to call M.I. international you've got to hook in with local members at the closest chapter level and go from there.
You will be extremely impressed with all the good work that goes on by these people locally that you'll never hear about and what they do has made an enormous difference! Organizing locally can be very rewarding and effective.
Best of luck to you. | |
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| I attend many different MI club meetings in my travels around the area, and generally all clubs have groups of people that hang together and ours is no different. Some clubs are more friendly feeling than others and we are known for sharing information and helping everyone catch more muskies. I have been to a couple Titletown meetings while working up near Green Bay and I am sure you can find some people to help you integrate into the group. All we tell people is give the club a try and see if you like it. If you don't no worries try another club and see if it's any better. I have been musky fishing for 30 years and people really only started sharing information and helping each other in the last few. I remember the days when you didn't compare notes with anyone and that was very unproductive. 
Good luck,
Steve
Edited by muskyboy 7/5/2007 9:17 PM
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Location: oswego, il | Hunter4, your first remark about me shows that you know me all too well! Your contributions far outweigh mine, as does your belly. Actually, I don't think you have a belly, that's your heart my friend. | |
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| MI is a great organization, no one here or anywhere is going to doubt their purpose or their mission, however I have had the same experience in at least one club. People ARE very cliquish and look at new members as not worthy and not all that welcome. So, I just didnt join that club, and instead joined another.
Regardless of the above there are a few thoughts that I feel NEVER get addressed on this board:
a. MI is not growing, and if it is, at a very slow pace. Membership numbers vs. the total number of muskie fisherman (see this board and others for an indication of how many muskie fisherman there are, and how many arent joining/members of MI.
b. the same complaint about MI members being too radical or not accepting of new members comes up over and over and over again. To this MI members seem to always respond with "well, its what YOU make of it", which also seems to say "you're not our responsibility, do what you want, we're going to be what we are".
So put a. vs. b. together. Maybe this is at least one reason that MI has 7000 members, and that includes family members. Maybe these two issues need to be addressed together so that MI is actually WELCOMING members, versus trying to rope them in for whatever purpose, then basically letting the members be unhappy with their experiences. | |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | Hunter4 - 7/5/2007 7:36 PM
He would be welcomed in my boat anytime (despite the black cloud that looms over his head).
Not buying the whole black cloud theory. If Jeff is a guest in your boat it is your job to find the fish. If you think he is over working that triple D in the back of the boat, do what I did and keep your mouth shut. He might be onto something.
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| Cliquish and inner circles yes, it has happened and will continue to happen in this organization. These muskie clubs are made up of volunteers and individuals who come together for who knows what reasons - learn how to catch muskies, where to fish, help improve the fisheries for now and future generations,etc.
I have heard of some members who feel slighted and left out. I have also heard of some of the same individuals say they didn't attend an outing becasue no one personally invited them. Our chapter has a newsletter and we always invite everyone to the outings and many times non-members are welcome to attend as well. If it requires a personal invite to all the clubs functions before people feel included then its not going to work. It is a meet in the middle situation, I suppose. Also, those clubs and groups that have their inner circles should be aware of that and go out of their way to include everyone and break up those cliques - because to be sustainable these clubs have to welcome new ideas, members and good new energy.
Overall, at the chapter level my involvement has netted out to a positive by a large margin. Should it tip the other way, I would quietly move on. | |
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| I have also heard of some of the same individuals say they didn't attend an outing becasue no one personally invited them. Our chapter has a newsletter and we always invite everyone to the outings and many times non-members are welcome to attend as well. If it requires a personal invite to all the clubs functions before people feel included then its not going to work.
i agree that it does take individual initiative to step forward and get involved, and that doing so will help that person meet the other group members, etc.
however, newsletter invites are by definition impersonal, and if you want better attendance/participation, you need to get personal to get people engaged.
if you know that something as "small" as personally inviting a new person to come fishing at a club outing will help them, why _wouldn't_ the club want to do it? imho, it's largely because oftentimes we'd all rather fish with our established friends, and don't want to feel responsible to take someone new out who may or may not turn out to be someone you like/get along with. it's understandable but it's a barrier at times to growing the club. those clubs with an ethic of personal outreach grow and thrive, those that don't remain static.
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| Jay, etc.,
I owe you a big apology. My post was meant to be a general grievance and to get some things off my chest that have been bugging me, and not intended to ID anybody. Like a moron, I neglected to edit out two capitalized letters in my final post, which turned a general anonymous rant, into an easily identifiable and specific attack on a club and one person in particular. Really dumb, careless and totally uncalled for. For what it’s worth, it was not intended that way. Jay, I'm sure you're a fine, fine man. Seriously. I feel really awful.
Having said that, the initial response on here only reaffirmed my overall impression. Obviously there is no way there was a problem, it must all be my fault and I should have done more. Fabulous.
Every organization is whatever you make of it. I'd just reached the point of diminishing return.
Anyone who knows me knows that I am very outgoing, and I am not afraid to talk to anyone. I have a job that requires me to do so, and I'm sure I chose that career at least partly because of my ability to blend in anywhere. I joined MI in the first place because I wanted to meet folks and be involved, not to sit there and wait for people to come to me. Why would I volunteer, why would I make the suggestions I did, attend some meetings...if I was just a shut-in and a complainer?
I'm not going to rebut specific incidents, but I gotta ask: What good would it have done to contact someone about a problem, when there is an obvious trend, both face to face and electronically? Why would I look more into the event/outing suggestions I made? What’s the sense in taking it any farther. No brief reply saying “great idea, look into it and report back.” There was just no response. That to me says “not interested.” So, really, I should have sent ANOTHER email or approached people AGAIN who have only ignored me in the past?? I can just imagine the flood of attention that would come when “I’m being ignored” is the subject line of an email. Come on. What was I going to say and who would have listened?
Even if I did sit there like a lump and went out of my way to be UN-social, which I did not, but if I had, there just wasn’t effort coming from the other direction. I feel I did make an effort, and it was as if I was bothering people. Whether perceived or actual, this is the impression I got. I realize my carelessness and stupidity really put people on the defensive and I was totally out of line, but it’s that impression and a solution which should be focused on, and maybe a little less on dismissing someone who is already telling you they’re being shunned. That response explained the point I was trying to make better than I could have.
I know MI is a wonderful organization that has done great big things, and Titletown is probably really great too.
Again, I’m truly sorry. I realize I’ve burned a bridge, and backed people into a corner. I really hate online drama like this, and I really hate contributing to it, but I guess since the cat is out of the bag, I might as well explain myself.
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In regards to Muskies incs membership not growing or small
Read the book 'nation of bowlers" by the harvard prof, cant remember his name
this is a book about our culture gettng less involved and commited to things, one of the examples is that right now we have more bowling allys then ever before but leauge particapation is at an all time low,,,
People today just dont want to join or commit has much, Muskies inc shouldnt be expected to buck this trend that the rest of our society cant.
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Posts: 8863
| Most everyone I've talked to that either A. won't join or B. let their membership lapse said pretty much the same thing:
"What do I get for my $35 bucks? A stupid magazine?"
Speaks volumes about where their priorities are... It's not about fishing, participating, learning, contributing, making friends, conservation, or anything else but "Whats in it for ME?"... Many who do at least join and show up at meetings regularly view it more as an excuse to get away from their wives for a night and drink with the guys under the guise of a "club meeting".
Maybe I'm being cynical here, but I think membership is where it is because people just don't want to put forth the money and effort because they're afraid someone might ask them to DO something. If people are worried enough about what they "get" in exchange for their $35 membership (hello... can you say MUSKIES in your local LAKES?) they're not likely to participate, show up, or make any attempt to welcome new members while they are there.
It's a universal trend in many aspects of life -- people are too busy, too tired, and too stressed to give much of a %^&$ about anything. Sometimes there's just nothing left, which for me reinforces the need to just get out there and fish.
Now...
Dave -- thanks for the compliment, and for the invite! I thought maybe you were just being friendly because my plate was full and yours wasn't...
Troy -- I never officially thanked you for putting me on that fish! Thanks, bro. (My Ninja DDD workout pays off once in a while, but man it wears you out!) If any of you guys get the chance to fish with Troy, DO it -- he knows the YAHARA chain pretty well, and he fishes hard, even when it's stupiud-hot outside.
Todd -- you DO smell kinda funny, man. | |
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Posts: 136
| MI has changed a lot over the years and will continue to do so. In my opinion MI will look a lot different ten years from now.
If you disagree with policy or direction than you can volunteer and act as a voice for change. I don't think starting another group would be the answer.
I would like to address what someone brought up about local chapters having "cliques" or not being open to outsiders. I think that is natural in any group setting. I experienced the same thing. Honestly I was a member for a year before I knew more than two people. But what you will find is that if you make an effort to get to know these guys and gals you will find that they are some of the best people you could ever meet. Of course I can only speak for my chapter. I hope that other chapters are not acting like a private club opposed to new members. If they are that they really don't get it are in serious need of a change of leadership.
Someone told me once that MI is not perfect but it's the best we have. If it's something you care about than work to change it. | |
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Posts: 720
| Jeff,
I'm never friendly.
Dave | |
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| Dave is one of the least friendly people I know | |
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| You are obviously NOT a moron and you should not feel that you have burned any bridges! You have opened our eyes a bit and made us reflect on some of the things that we can do as a Chapter, and as fishing friends, to make it a bit better. Jay's first response to the rest of us in the GB membership was to ask us to take a look at the issue, think about it, go to the upcoming meeting, and discuss how we could improve things to make people feel more comfortable in the group. That was EXTREMELY COMMENDABLE on his part! It probably would not have happened without this discussion topic.
My initial response to you probably seemed to be a beating; it was not meant to be, by any means! I responded based on how I had been treated by the people that I needed assistance through, and Jay and the rest always seemed to come through for me, to meet my needs at the moment!
When I went to the first meeting of the NEW group, I believe that I only recognized about two members of the OLD group. For all I know, there may have been MANY more that were part of the OLD organization and I did not even know! I might have been caught up in the small, clique-ey group mentality all of this time and not even noticed these people in the initial "club".
As far as reflection as to how we can improve ourselves (the Chapter), I have thought of a number of things that I believe may help. I hope to attend the upcoming meeting and share those viewpoints. You should also see from some of the responses that there are some people and groups that have addressed this type of issue already and have shared their experience and knowledge. This will undoubtedly be a big help in making improvements in the Green Bay area. This WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED if it weren't for you! If you had not included two letters, everyone would have thought everything was hunky dory and peachy keen in LA LA Land (every MI organization location out there). Like I say, you have opened our eyes and we should be thankful that you have. We now have a chance to amend things and improve conditions for new members.
Regarding the "It's ALL ABOUT ME!" mentality about what I can get out of an organization, I find that one of the biggest benefits for me regarding membership is research and analysis of the statistics that I find available through the LUNGE LOG database! Talk about a WEALTH of MUSKIE FISHING INFORMATION, we (the members) have it right at our fingertips! I have used LUNGE LOG INQUIRIES in the past to analyze bait effectiveness, lakes known to have muskies in, friends who seem to be catching them, Moon Phase effectiveness, etc.! Just for that alone, I believe the price for membership is well worth the cost of admission!
Don Swanson, Green Bay | |
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Posts: 113
Location: Green Bay, WI | Thanks Don for expressing my feelings on the subject. Looking back on my statements to frustrated I probably was to defensive. Was he completely wrong in what he said? Of course not he brought up some very good points and your right we will bring them up on Tuesday night. I have a phone call in to the former member and would like to talk to him and invite him to the meeting on Tuesday. He can come and no knows who brought up the original complaint and it will stay that way.
I would like to thank the members from other Muskie Inc. chapters who responded with ideas and comments on how it works in their chapters. That is the kind of thing that I've come to expect with Muskie Inc. members they are always ready to help out. We will bring these ideas up and discuss this. In a funny sort of way I'm happy this came up it gives us a chance to bring up these issues. I'm happy for the chapter but I'm sorry that it came by the way of making someone unhappy.
Dave it was nice to hear from you and we will spend some time in a boat somewhere along the way or spend some more money at the Sheboygan banquet. Have one of those other guys drive next year so we can have a cold one.
Jay Zahn
President Titletown Muskies Inc. | |
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| MANY people (member and non-member alike) are now in the position of taking advantage of the benefits produced through the efforts and help of the Muskies, Inc. organization. If you look at the Lunge Log Statistics from many years past, it readily becomes apparent that there were not many 50 inch plus fish out there in those early years. Look at those statistics NOW for BIG FISH! Thanks to the work and financial support of many individuals in the MI organization, the release initiatives that have developed through time, and some help from the general public in both regards, I believe that ALL are now seeing the fruits of those efforts. Perhaps, the GOOD OLD DAYS are on their way and things can actually get much better!
Yes, there may only be a few thousand Muskies, Inc members. I know that there are also "alternative" organizations forming that really do not support MI through memberships, but they may participate in fund-raising activities through some other means.
I know in the Hayward area, there is the Hayward Lakes Chapter with the dues-paying members, but there is also another organized MUSKIE fishing group that takes GREAT benefit in having better Muskie fishing opportunities in that area. Even when not paying dues, however, some of those individuals may actually provide support to the LOCAL MI efforts through participation in the Fall Tournament event that raises funds to stock area lakes.
I do believe that if some people understood the reasons why conditions have improved to the point they have, they may feel an obligation to join Muskies, Inc., to provide some financial support, and become actively involved in making things even better at the LOCAL LEVEL.
It seems it is somewhat the same as non-outdoor-sports enthusiasts actually getting improved benefits (non or low payed support) because of the support of the hunters/fishing people in buying licenses. Game species, non-game species, and habitats thrive and those people are able to take advantage of the situation without paying as much of a price!
These are the opinions of ONE MI member and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of others in the organization! nor of any other person taking advantage of the NOW great, Muskie fishing opportunities provided through MI initiatives!
Don Swanson, Green Bay | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Wow...interesting thread. Many responses.
As the newest member of the Titletown MI club, June's meeting was my first. I showed up about 20 minutes early and by the time the meeting started, had met most of the guys in the club that came to the same meeting. And I was pleasantly surprised to learn that most knew of me before I even got to the meeting. It was quite clear to me that the President communicates with the members, and that they openly welcome new members. In fact, I never got the feeling that there was any "cliqueness" whatsoever. But I can tell you that I went out of my way to meet the guys that were there and talk muskies.
I'm not certain what the issue was with the poster that had complained about this club, but I did read his follow-up post. I wonder if he sent a return receipt request with the emails? Maybe the email was down? When I first became interested in the club I went to the website and simply called a couple guys in the club--the President included. E-mail is fine, but I still prefer the phone whenever possible.
But I can personally attest to the fact that I was made very welcome in the club on the very first meeting, and I suspect the lion's share of the MI clubs are the very same way.
TB | |
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Posts: 62
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin | i just wanted to say that i have only been musky fishing for 3 years and im 25 years old. i have caught 18 muskies this year so far, my biggest being 45" im not doing to bad i dont think, i mostly fish from shore been in the boat once this year with no fish landed. i dont know if 18 is good or not to most of the people on here or if they have alot more then 18 by now. just to let people know that im catching fish and not out to steal everyones info/secrets. just young and new to the sport thought that MI would be a good way to help meet more musky guys then when just fishing. also to find others places to fish, more people to fish with, help me learn more about musky fishing besides videos and magazines.A chance to help and support a sport i love to do. so i found out that the local chapter in my area is the chippewa falls wisconsin chapter since i live in Eau Claire wisconsin. so while i was fishing throughout the summer, i talked to a few people that were musky fishing that i ran into while fishing about the local MI chapter and i heared that they are clique-ey, not friendly to new people, your always stuck as an outsider even though youve been there tring to make friends for quite a while just to make sure that people werent having a bad day. They have said that they have tried several times at attempting to make sure it just wasnt me being new. I have also heard stories on people being really friendly to new people until they find out how the new people have been doing fishing, where they have been catching them, what they have been using and any kind of important information to help them benefit on catching fish. Then once they have what they need or want from you, your done, no more use for you. I have asked around at some of the local sporting goods stores/shops on what they have heard compared to what i have heard and it was pretty much the same thing. Since i have been hearing all of these bad things and nothing good on MI I stopped looking into joining because i figured it wouldnt be something i would be interested in.
I am also wondering if i am meeting these people fishing and they are friendly and talkative to a stranger while fishing, why they would have a hard time talking to other people at a chapter for the first time when we didnt have any trouble talking or being friendly meeting for the first time out fishing? It sounds like a bunch of the other chapters are nice and a good source of information and a good place to meet people and stuff. Is there anyone from the chippewa falls/eau claire, wisconsin chapter or area that has heard the same things or different things or if it is like that? Is it worth to join? Is it better than what people have been saying? Did these people just have a bad time or werent friendly?
hopefully some others will have better news on this chapter thanks mic
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Think for a minute about what you are saying. Somehow, the 1st Wisconsin chapter became one of the most active and largest chapters in MI. That means that folks had to join the chapter and become active. In order to do that, new members had to meet established members and continue to attend meetings.
I've attended MI meetings across the country. MI clubs are made up of people and people are what they are no matter WHAT the social function. One thing for sure, no one in the club (s) is planning to exclude new members, make them uncomfortable, suck the info they have out of their skull and send 'em packing, I just can't see any 'conspiracy' there. In order to accomplish goals set by the MI clubs, they NEED membership to grow and fund raisers, etc to be successful.
Groups of friends sitting and talking together are perceived to be to be cliques. Noisy or boisterous folk are perceived to be unfriendly. Quiet folks are perceived to be solitary and unfriendly. What?? These are just people, and all share a common interest or they would not be there. Sure, there are people from all walks of life there, there are nice and easy going, shy, boisterous, outwarldy friendly, and outwardly unfriendly folks there. THEY ARE PEOPLE!!
Some new members jump right in and introduce them selves, make a friend or two, and there you go. Others are less outgoing and less likely to make friends quickly. Some are flat shy and intimidated. THEY ARE PEOPLE!!
So how to make everyone happy and comfortable? Not possible, people are people. How to make it as easy as IS possible to get that done? Make sure the club has a 'crew' of greeters that take new members under their wing, introduce them to the established members, get fishing stories going, and the rest should will take care of itself. The club 'social director' needs to make everyone keenly aware that a new member is in attendance, guests are in attendance, etc.
Everyone's 'reality' is based on perception. Open up a bit, accept that at least you are amongst your peers, and if 'club' get togethers are for you, you will become a MI member attending meetings and enjoying most of them. If 'club' get togethers are NOT for you, you'll know and you can move on. Either way, it IS what you decide it will be ultimately, and MI needs to be keenly aware of that fact. So do all prospective new MI members..... | |
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Posts: 181
| esoxaddict - 7/6/2007 12:32 PM
Maybe I'm being cynical here, but I think membership is where it is because people just don't want to put forth the money and effort because they're afraid someone might ask them to DO something. If people are worried enough about what they "get" in exchange for their $35 membership (hello... can you say MUSKIES in your local LAKES?)
Help me out here, how many muskies did the local chapters stock last year from there own fundraising? LOTS!! How many fish did the international put into lakes last year using the $35 dollars that they recieved from all of their members? I have no idea, but if it was any it sure wasn't many. My point is for the total outlay of 35 dollars the International MI could do more for the fisheries and a little less for the Magazine that they brag about so much. As of the spring International board meeting the magazine was accounting for 1/3 of the total international budget. Yes i know that international also give's grants for fisheries research and also gives dontations back to a few chapters every year for some of the local projects that they are undergoing, but it just seems that 1/3 is too much for the quality of the magazine compared to what else is available. Also every club is supposed to get five dollars for every member that is affiliated with that club back from the International, ask your local club if they got there five dollars per member, our local club didn't. I'm not even close to speeking for everyone on this, but I do know that many of the larger reasons brought up in this thread, are the reasons that chapter 51 ohio valley musky hunters at least started the precedings to relinquish their association with Muskies Inc. I don't know if they actually went through with the it. That rant being finished I'll go to the MI website and now renew my membership, anyone got 35 bucks I can borrow? 
Edited by jnelson 7/8/2007 6:51 PM
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Posts: 32955
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | MI magazine is and was designed to be news and information about Muskies Inc and Muskies in general associated with Muskies Inc Members. It isn't and wasn't designed to be an Esox Angler or MH.
I've been 'involved' on different sides of the issue several times, and am still somewhat torn as to what I like and don't about MI International. Fact is it's a working umbrella Organization for the clubs out there, and lends credibility to each Chapter; even those that are basically unto their own, so to speak. If you like, try keeping an independent club up and running, budgeted and funded, operate the monthly meetings, etc....it takes a REALLY dedicated group usually driven by an individual or two.
The MI name carries considerable weight; as it should, the accomplishments are many and the legacy strong. My opinion, anyway. | |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Mr. Nelson, what the International did do, though, is help provide a unique data base to your state's fisherie managers in the form of the Lunge Log. Many states use this data to aid in decisions about stocking, size limits, etc. So, while the International may not have stocked a fish in your favorite lake, the info they make available to your state (who has the primary responsibility for fish management) did help your state in making fish stocking and management decisions.Not a bad service for an annual dues amout that is about equal to a new bait, a third of a new reel, or a quarter of a new rod! m | |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Nelson,
True the Int'l doesn't stock fish with our money, but lets face it we don't want them to. Confused? Let me explain.
Let me start off my saying MI is the ONLY national organizations that I know of that doesn't make it's chapters send all of their fund-raiser dollars up the chain to the parent organization. DU, TU, PF, and so on all take the money away from the local chapters to spend for the "collective good". MI leaves that money at the local level so the local people can positively effect the local muskie fishery. The $35 is roughly what is needed to run a national organization. Sure budgets can be trimmed and we can all argue about where the money is spent, but it costs money to do annual audits, print off the magazine, and just do business has it's costs.
Think about the uproar of muskie fishermen if we had to send all of our money up the food-chain to be spent on the collective muskie resource. You'd have politics to no end with everyone b!tching that they're getting the shaft. You'd have large chapters mad because they're sending all of their money away. You'd have the guys out east mad because fish are being stocked in MN or WI. You'd have the same grouchy people even more grouchy because they can be. Remember muskies don't migrate and what may be good for N Minnesota isn't necessarily good for S MN or Penn or OH and so on.
Still not convinced? Let's just say that the Int'l could cut out say $30,000 out of the budget. At $12/a fish you get 2500 fish. That stocks 1 lake somewhere in the country. Who is to judge which lake gets the fish? Do you want a bunch of people who don't know any of the local issues making decisions for your home body of water? How would the Int'l know where the fish are needed most? Can you imagine all the in-fighting? Now imagine that we were giving 95% of all our fund-raising dollars to the Int'l so that can be the ones to stock fish. Giving the Int'l that kind of power would tear this organization apart.
Now as the parent organization they can spend that $30,000 on something that will positively affect the entire membership. Granted that's assuming that the money will get spent on something at positively affects everyone, but that's the rational.
It's not a perfect system, but the longer I'm involved the more I realize that we need the Int'l, but it' at the local level where we should be setting our expectations for the fishery. The Int'l is (and should stay IMOP) the home office and it's the rest of us that are the foot solders that are fighting (and winning) the day-to-day battles.
That's not to take away from the job the Int'l does. We've all got our jobs and we all can't be everything if we want to do it well. For instance, Each chapter has better things to do then shop insurance rates and deal with an annual audit. Some chapters may be able to do ok, but through our collective membership we can do very well. That's not to mention all the resources that each chapter would have to devote to these non-fisheries related issues. It's the issues like this where the Int'l in necessary and indispensable. By doing these jobs it frees the chapters up to make a difference in our local fisheries.
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Posts: 462
Location: Syracuse, Indiana | The Chapters are the International, and the International is the Chapters. I think this is becoming my mantra. True, Muskies Inc., needs to become more efficient. We are working in that direction. If nothing else, look at recent budgetary changes and the strategic planning committee's work. We still have a ways to go. We can always improve. That improvement occurs more quickly if each member contributes to the effort. We will get better. Treats is right on target about the separation of powers. The "International" needs to focus on more efficiently providing service more appropriately provided at the international level. The "Chapters" need to focua on how to more efficiently provide services at the chapter level. This is being done. MUSKIE Magazine is a publication of which I am proud. Apparently most members agree. The last time I checked (and the time before that, and the time before that) the magazine was our most popular member benefit. The MI web site (soon to be updated) lists a number of benefits of MI membership. I won't repeat them here. However, the Muskies, Inc. name conveys credibility. As fishermen, we should be focusing our energies on those opposed to muskies and muskie fishing, on consevation and environmental concerns, on safe boating and fishing practices, on youth, fisheries and research. Muskies, Inc. will continue to do so. Please join with us in doing so. David Cates | |
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| Regarding the Lunge Log, I happened to be scanning the book shelf the other night and came across a book that I have probably barely looked at (UNTIL NOW). The book is Half A Million Muskie-Catching Fishing Facts by George W. Sandell. It is ISBN 0-940107-07-4.
When I started to look through the book, I realized that it was a summary of the Lunge Log Statistics of Muskies, Inc. from about the inception of the record keeping for the organization to about 1993 (printed July, 1994, if I remember correctly). This book covers the muskie range throughout the United States at that time. I found that I could not put the book down and finished it in one sitting. There is highly useful, written text that summarizes the statistics, photos of some of the great catches made throughout time, moon phase evaluation, lake statistics, maps, etc.
It is interesting to see some of the HOT baits and color choices at that time. I realize that the pecking order has changed a bit since that time, but some of the oldies, but goodies, still shine!
It does appear that the state fish and game departments could use these statistics in their determination of their programs and regulations! I found it interesting to note that some of the fabled waters throughout the state have less plus-50-inch muskies listed than some smaller, lesser known (also LESS PRESSURED) waters. Perhaps that is why Wisconsin has increased the size limits on some of the waters that one would consider as POTENTIAL, TROPHY-SIZE producing places.
It is interesting to note the story of one fish of 48.5 pounds. It had been released by Randy Lawry about nine years earlier and Dave Dorazio about six years earlier. For more regarding that and other interesting muskie fishing stories, READ the BOOK!
I am wondering if there may be a next installment in the Muskie Catching Fishing Facts series at anytime soon? Surely, there must be a wealth of new information added to the database in that many years!
By the way, having been out of the mix for a time and having heard only bits and pieces of radio conversations and few newspaper readings regarding Muskie genetics, does anyone know if a determination has been made on whether Wisconsin Muskies are indeed genetically inferior as some claim? It sure seems that there are MORE reports of bigger fish being taken in recent times. Much of that may be due to regulations and release, because it sure seems that the PRESSURES on the fish have increased, that is, many more people fish for them!
Don Swanson - Green Bay | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Don,
The genetics study continues, and scientific consensus is that the WI fish are not inferior. | |
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| David, thank you for posting. I'm a long time member of M.I, I'm hoping you are considering a plan of action to combat how top heavy the international is now. As you are well aware it cannot continue the way it is now and survive.
Moving forward, I feel most of the membership dues should go back to the chapters for local stocking, ect. The $5. for new members just doesn't cut it for the people I know in M.I..
My guess is that the some of people who say they rate the magazine as their #1 benefit say that because they can see no other benefit, so your stats may be influenced somewhat. I'm not saying that is their only benefit, it's just what they see and the first thing that pops in their head.
I for one leaf threw the magazine once and pitch it, I do not consider it a benefit at all knowing how much it must cost. I made a recommendation to Muskies Canada that they NOT send me the journal and just make it available on line and save the printing and shipping costs. I'm not sure how this would effect the advertising $ but I would like to see M.I. consider the same thing and return the $ to the chapter.
I would also like to know what the payroll is for those who receive a monthly M.I. check, if it's not too much trouble.
That's all, thanks for listening. | |
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Posts: 317
| ToddM - 7/5/2007 9:22 PM
Hunter4, your first remark about me shows that you know me all too well! Your contributions far outweigh mine, as does your belly. Actually, I don't think you have a belly, that's your heart my friend. : )
That's a true statement! In every club, there are guys like Dave and Todd who go way above what is asked, and there are "the invisibles." I agree with Dave in that it is up to the indevidual to make their contribution. That being said, our system of having membership directors to meet and greet new members and help them integrate is starting to pay off. As one of the membership directors, I always get an overwhelming positive and thankful response when I meet a new member at a meeting and introduce him/her around, or give a new member a phone call. Sometimes people need a little nudge to get started, and that's ok too. | |
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Location: Eau Claire, WI | MrMuskie32 aka Micah (and anyone else who would like to talk to me), I'm the VP of the First WI Chapter. If you have some questions about the chapter, please contact me. I encourage you to make your own decisions about our chapter by experiencing it directly.
What you write publicly on this board is not patently true and we have been working very hard to dispell the perception you have unwittingly perpetuated here.
Here is one example: We run a league on Wednesday nights with a few simple rules. Most relevant to this discussion is that you have to fish with a new partner every week. The whole point about this is that we want people to mix and get to know each other while engaging in a common ground passion. I have fished with a bunch of great people and made new friends in the club.
We are in our second season and already this has resulted in a bigger group of "friends" and more new folks stepping into positions on our board, volunteering at events, etc.
I look forward to talking to you and would be happy to have you come to a meeting and see for yourself.
Dhacker, I'm the webmaster of our chapter's site and I have not seen anything from you....If you would like to talk about the First WI Chapter, please contact me. Many of our members spend time in the Deer, Bone area. A few years ago, someone else tried to start a chapter around there but it didn't go. Not sure the reason why.
Sincerely,
Jon Olstadt
715-579-1300
[email protected] | |
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Posts: 462
Location: Syracuse, Indiana | (In response to "Guest") - MI budgetary matters are available to any member. Contact your RVP. The Strategic Planning Committee has taken a long, hard look at MI's governance. Expect information regarding their proposals in advance of the fall board meeting. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mr. Cates, excellent answer! Any MI member can get information form the Club RVP about the International, including the $. | |
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Posts: 216
Location: Elk River, MN | Jon (Jono) I didn't know I was supposed to call you or I would have. I will give you a call the first part of next week. I am headed Thursday morning to Vermillion to chase them for 3 1/2 days. Until then I am playing "keep up" at work for the rest of today and all day tomorrow.
This post was to try and get the information I was not having success with getting as well as see what other MI members were feeling; "gut-check for myself". The very first response / email and follow-up phone call with CommonSenseGuy provided the information to contact David Cates directly; who said the closest chapter was in Hayward; as well as he provided Don Jahncke contact info who is in charge of new chapters for Muskies, Inc. Don is sending me the information packet this week.
I assume the chapter you are in - First WI Chapter is close or in the near proximity of Eau Claire. I believe the problem is what I have been hearing from people who are interested in actively participating in a chapter is travel. I also discussed this with David Cates. People want to join and participate but don't want to drive a long ways to do it. Several also want to have some of their efforts relate to the area(s) they fish in; and honestly I want some of the effort I do to relate to the local areas as well.
I am not making excuses for myself or anyone else's active participation; but personally, our household has two adults working fulltime and daily traffic to and from work; kids soccer two nights a week; try to get out fishing one night a week - depending on weather; and then the household chores such as laundry, cooking dinner, house cleaning, bills, taking care of the lawn, really leave little left. So I can understand and relate to individuals who want to participate with a chapter "closer to home". I am fortunate that the chapter I am in is only 25 minutes away.
I think your chapter having an existing member fish with a new member during the weekly leagues is a great idea.
I am very interested in talking with you and look forward to anything you and your chapter has to offer. At this stage, I am just trying to gather as much information as possible to determine the validity of a new Chapter; find out how much effort it takes and if it makes sense; take the first steps to initiate something. This may be something such as scheduling a meeting in the local area and then maybe having someone from your chapter (if that's the closest chapter) to come and discuss ideas and perform some Q&A of an existing chapter versus a new chapter start up.
Edited by dhacker 7/10/2007 5:50 PM
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Posts: 726
Location: Eau Claire, WI | I would be glad to help anyway I can and I'm sure my chapter would too. I think that's a great area to have a chapter.
Good luck on Vermilion!
Jono
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| Steve Worrall is exactly 100% on target with his earlier observation:
" So how to make everyone happy and comfortable? Not possible, people are people. How to make it as easy as IS possible to get that done? Make sure the club has a 'crew' of greeters that take new members under their wing, introduce them to the established members, get fishing stories going, and the rest should will take care of itself. The club 'social director' needs to make everyone keenly aware that a new member is in attendance, guests are in attendance, etc. "
Yes, it's very true that people are what they are both the good & bad-- its simply human behavior.
Dave Cates had a key comment which is crucial "the International is the Chapter and the Chapters are the International". Somehow those words need to be more integrated into the true perceptions of all - which will take time.
Dave Cates and the current Board of MI have made very positive improvements in terms of promoting harmony, money management and budgets. The magazine is now more modest and spartan - which needed to be done. It is the main conduit to communicate the priorities and upcoming events with members, Chapters and the entire organization. It simply cannot "compete" (there are not enough resources to pay for flashy pictures, authors, etc.) with MH and EA - in terms of investing the time and energy into presenting leading edge ideas and professional-quality journalism and significant muskie strategies and methods information. This is a vital communication link to MI members re: MI priorities and key issues (VHS, stocking, research, broad information efforts, etc.) and is very useful for that purpose.
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The subject of members leaving MI because they didn't feel welcome, or thought MI was to clickey has come up often.
I don't think it's fair to to hear all the negative comments, but not the positives.
Far more people stay in MI, and make friends in thier clubs as well as others, then leave feeling slighted.
I know this is true in our MI club, Fargo Moorhead. The vast majority of our new members in the last 10 years, including myself, have stayed and become very active.
MI always has and will change and evolve. How it changes and evolves will depend on members, not people who stand on the outside and just wish it was different.
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