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| If price were the same, and you had to choose ...would you hang a new 175 Suzuki on the back or a new 175 OptiMax?
Give me your reasons why one or the other?
I'm at that point today as my 2000 175 EFI might be going to the outboard junk yard....
thanks |
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Posts: 2051
| E-Tec!
BRP LAUNCHES SPRING RETAIL PROMOTION
Evinrude E-TEC purchase incentive starts off season
Consumers can now take advantage of the 2007 Evinrude® E-TEC® spring retail promotion presented by BRP. From now until June 30, 2007, consumers can choose to receive a discount of $2 per horsepower on the purchase of a 150-hp or higher Evinrude E-TEC outboard engine (value of $300 to $500); or receive a 2-year extended protection plan for a total 5-years of coverage.
The promotion is offered in the United States and Canada on Evinrude E-TEC outboard engines purchased between May 18, 2007 and June 30, 2007. Eligible models include all new, unused Model Year (MY) 2007, 2006, 2005 and 2004 Evinrude E-TEC engines 40 HP and above.
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| suzi has a $400 rebate right now as well...not really thinking Etec...leaning towards Suzuki |
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Posts: 1270
| Of the two choices you mentioned I would go with the Sazuki. I can not stand loud motors and every Opti I have ever heard was loud and sounded lik it was going to fall apart. |
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Posts: 5874
| What is on the boat now? 175 Merc? Less rigging for the Opti.
TC, the big block Opti's had a problem back prior to 2002. They've been very good motors since then.
We're talking the smallblock motor here, and they have been virtually flawless since the first of them came out. Easy on fuel and oil, lighter than the Suzuki, and way better performance from holeshot to WOT. Yes they are a bit louder, with that famous Opti growl. I remember when the first EFI's came out, Everybody loved the crackling at idle, and the throaty sound of power. Then a couple quiet 4 strokes came out, and now everybody wants to be able to whisper at WOT! I want know my motor is running!
Suzuki makes a good motor, but I'll take the 175 Opti for overall performance in a very reliable motor everytime. |
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| It has a Merc 175 EFI....the dealer I will probably go thru has the Suzi at $1200 less plus a $400 rebate so I'm assuming it will come out less even if there is some rigging to be done...can't be $1600 worth of rigging?
Leaning towards the suzi as it is quieter, might not be quite the rocket the opti would be but easy on gas, and I can also trade or sell the 9.9 kicker as I'm not much of a troller and when/if I do the suzi can do that for me.... |
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Posts: 5874
| I would expect the rigging to be in the $4-500 dollar range. Pretty good deals on the Suzzy's right now it looks like. Have you looked at the Johnson version? May be even less, believe it or not. Same motor, different decals. |
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Posts: 2051
| What is a 175 suzi installed? 12K? |
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| I was in Mike Hulberts Polar Kraft last year and I was pretty impressed with the 175 suzuki he had....I think the Opti's have come a very long way and are now pretty reliable...but they are a bit loud!
can't go wrong with whatever motor you choose for the most part these days imo. |
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Posts: 2051
| Thanks Guest! We don't have a suzuki dealer in my area so ......I can get one installed at the countries largest dealer ,North Carolina for 11K
This is a discussion board Einstein. |
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| Justin settle down! 
yes it is in the range of 12k
minus any trades....
but it would take you $1000 of gas there and back Einstein! |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Brad,
Suzuki all the way. With a trade you can put one on the back for $11k or less. Quieter, A LOT better on fuel and overall performance wise I would put it up against an Opti. Not going to be perfectly comparible, but what is a couple miles per hour.
Call Chad at Ox-bo Marine and tell him I told you to call him. 920-386-0175.
Chuck |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Shep,
I do not believe that Johnson makes them that big any longer. Suzuki made them top to bottom, you are correct with the different color/different decals statement.
Chuck |
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| I have had a Suzuki 150 2 stroke for 3 years and not one single problem.. I know I can always depend on the motor.... Thats all the experience I have with the Suzuki, I know I will always rig my boats will the Suzuki... |
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Posts: 814
| Brad I would have to say take the Suzuki! Or any Four Stroke for that matter...Way better on gas at 3.25 a gallon yes it matters, No oil consumption, Quieter, maybe not as fast, but unless your fishing big money tourneys who cares about a couple miles per hour. Plus 4-strokes pollute less and have better resale. IMO, I won't buy another boat without a four stroke on it! The cost savings alone is a no brainer. |
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Posts: 412
Location: Waukesha, WI | I was told by one dealer that the new 2 strokes pollute less than 4s, especially over time. |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | I have a 1999 OPTI 225 and never had to put a dime into it other than plugs and general maintance. I can't begin to think how many hours are on it and it's still flawless every day.
I love the OPTI and it just sounds like a mans motor. Kind of like a Harley on the water.
You can't go wrong with either. You hear of Merc's with problems, well look at how many of them are out there. Some just don't take care of their motors and some motors, well, $hit just happens. |
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Posts: 63
| Brad,
That first post wasn't mine buddy...I was out fishing today...not playing on the internet...
I would obviously go with a Suzuki...awesome motor, quietest motor around and not a single problem.
I love mine.
MIKE HULBERT (not guest)
*you should know better than that...I alway put my name on what I have to say!!! LOL |
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| Yah Mike your motor did rock...pushed that PK Express like it was a 15 footer...
I think Suzi is going to be hung on the back....
thanks for all the input. |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Brad
Suzuki would be my choice, probably not much difference if fuel economy when running, big advantage is not buy 20-30 a gallon oil for the boat, plus the option of using the 175 for trolling.
Troy |
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Posts: 7068
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Not that I had anything in that size range, but I did run a 90hp Suzi last year and this year I'm running a 150 Opti. The Suzi purred like a kitten and was reliable as can be except for one minor issue....which ruined a trip to Canada (mostly). The Opti has more kick for the hole shot, but the Suzi was a smaller engine on not that much smaller a boat. So, other than other's observations the ONLY thing I would check on is how far your nearest Suzi repair shop is. As stated above, all things break, and eventually you're going to need to bring it in for service. The one major complaint I had about the Suzi was that when I was looking for a place for service, the nearest location was almost an hour away, and I live in a pretty central suburb of Chicago. I'd check that out before buying anything.
Lastly in terms of resale, what I've "heard" is that its easier to re-sell a boat with a Merc on it, versus a Suzi. That isnt to say the Suzi is less of a motor, just that people are more apt to be interested in purchasing the Merc. |
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| Brad:
Since you are on the road a lot I would consider how much trouble you may have finding a Suzi dealer if needed. They are not as numerous was Mercury dealers and during warranty period, this will be important.
I had a small block Opti and loved it. Was light on oil and gas, had outstanding holeshot and midrange power, where 4$trokes tend to be weak, and was very reliable. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | Plowman's Marine in Woodruff is a dealer Brad ... i'm sure you know this already, but they are up here where you spend a lot of your time your time.
with all this talk of making sure you know the location of your dealer so that you can fix it when it breaks, you could just get a Yamaha and not worry about anything : ) |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Brad,
What is wrong with your 175? if you dont mind me asking. My "98" 175 runs like a champ (oops i might have just hexed it). I just cant see a "2000" EFI motor going bad already. I would get the OPTI, american made mans motor, got to love the grawl. Just my 2cents. |
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| there is a suzi dealer in Madison where I live, and a larger dealer 30 min SE where the boat is now...
Suzi dealers in Woodruff and I think one in Boulder too right?
Not too worried about it breaking...
The current EFI on it has a few things going on with it..one of which it may need a new powerhead..those are over 2k alone I think to fix..I had kicked around re powering it last fall and now I think I will unless the dealer it is at now takes a good look at it and tells me it won't be that much to fix...most likely I know what they are going to tell me...
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Posts: 32914
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | First of all, the concept that a 4 stroke is more fuel efficient that a DFI 2 stroke is not necessarily correct. The DFI 2 strokes--Mercury OptiMax, Yamaha, and Evinrude Etec can be easier on fuel and actually pollute less than the 4 strokes out there. The two strokes are quicker out of the hole, and generally faster than the 4 stroke models. They also weigh less, again generalizing here. That being said, both you are considering are excellent motors.
The Suzi will require you re-rig with controls, cables, and a special gauge in the dash. Cost is usually about $650 to rig a Suzi V-6 up, labor alone. Same for an Opti, but you already have compatible controls and cables and an oil tank. Some dealers charge more, some less.
Here's what was said in a recent Bass and Walleye Boats test on 200 HP DFI models from Yamaha, Mercury, and Evinrude:
'Overall, these engines were so close in performance that choosing just one winner was too difficult — and unfair — so we didn't. If even one of the test conditions had changed, the outcome would have surely been different. It was just that close. '
On fuel economy:
'FUEL ECONOMY: WEIGHING HEAVIER IN TODAY’S TESTS
Never before has fuel economy played such a big part in engine evaluations. Paying $3 or more at the pump for regular tends to steer one’s thinking away from miles per hour and toward fuel mileage. In this portion of the test, Merc won clearly with a best average fuel mileage of 4.5 mpg, and Yamaha finished second at an average 4.1 mpg. E-Tec’s results with the Raker were poor in comparison at an average 3.7 mpg. However, when tested with the Trophy propeller, the Rude tied the Yamaha with an average of 4.1 mpg.
Merc, however, won the “best cruise” mileage with a reading of 5.8 mpg at 4000 rpm and 47.5 mph. Using 90 percent of the Bass Cat’s 40-gallon fuel supply, which translates to a 208-mile range. Yamaha came in a close second, with a best of 5.5 mpg at 4500 rpm and 55.4 mph, for an average range of just over 197 miles.
Both results were stellar, and it was great to see that the Pantera hull took advantage of the higher cruise speed range instead of the typical sub-35 mph speeds where we usually record our best mileage. Perhaps our greatest disappointment was the E-Tec’s mileage numbers; after all the emissions and mileage hype from Evinrude, we expected the E-Tec H.O. to really put a hurtin’ on the other two when it came to the fuel fillup. We were sadly mistaken.'
Here's a good article on the debate:
http://www.marineenginedigest.com/specialreports/2versus4stroke.htm
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Posts: 814
| Just got off the phone with Yamaha, there best 2 stroke uses 10-15 % MORE fuel than the same horsepower 4 stroke, no matter what horese power it is, and POLLUTES more it still sends oil out the exhaust,that's why it always needs to be topped off, just not as much as the old 2 strokes, Also top end should be the same,just hole shot is a little slower. Also he said fuel and oil savings will justify the extra cost of the 4 stroke and resale down the road will be higher. |
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Posts: 32914
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Bass and Walleye Boats Article: Put Up or Shut Up
It’s a two-stroke vs. four-stroke showdown among Mercury, Suzuki and Yamaha
By John Tiger, Jr.
Bass and Walleye Boats
June 30, 2006
'Editor Steve Quinlan and I met with the very accommodating folks from Ranger Boats on Arkansas’ Bull Shoals Lake in mid-spring, and conducted a shootout between 250-horsepower offerings from all of the major players (sans Evinrude, who was invited but declined) on identical Ranger 620VS multispecies boats. We had at our disposal for the weekend four four-strokes (a Suzuki DF250, Yamaha F250, and Mercury 250 Verado) stacking the deck against a lone two-stroke DFI (Mercury 250XS). With four outboards comparing very closely in terms of weight, horsepower output, top-end rpm limits and torque, we expected the outcome to be pretty close. With the exception of the top speed and acceleration of the Mercury 250XS, it was.'
'SPEED AND PUNCH: TWO-STROKE BRAGGING RIGHTS
No sense dancing around it, in terms of speed and acceleration, Mercury’s 250XS is clearly the champion of the 250-horsepower crowd -- and by a very significant margin. We hit a best average top speed of 64.5 mph spinning a 24-inch-pitch lab-worked Bravo I four-blade wheel right at the limiter (5850 rpm). We actually bumped the limiter a few times, trimming high into the wind while trying to eke out that last mph. The next closest speed was achieved by the Verado, at 63 mph even (turning a 23-inch lab-finished Tempest Plus propeller) at 6140 rpm. The Yamaha finished third with a solid 60-mph clocking, turning a stock 23-inch-pitch Yamaha VX-Max three-blade prop at 6000 rpm. In the top speed wars, the Suzuki came up fourth out of the four, pushing the Ranger to 58.6 mph at 6100 rpm turning a stock Suzuki 16x24.5-inch three-blade prop.
We must note, however, that Suzukis traditionally like to be run high. After some preliminary prop testing, Senior Product Development Engineer David Greenwood raised the engine to the very top set of holes (3/4-inch higher than any of the other three engines) and said he was disappointed he couldn’t raise it any higher. He noted after his test runs that the engine never really felt like it had broken loose at that height.
Acceleration results put the two-stroke XS at the top of the pile, too. Merc’s raspy “race production” engine pushed the stout Ranger to 30 mph from a dead stop in 6.2 seconds, a full four-tenths of a second quicker than the second place finisher (again the Verado, at 6.6 seconds). The Suzuki came in a very close third this time, with a 6.7-second clocking, and the Yamaha pulled up fourth with a distant 7.7-second average.
Midrange punch (measured in seconds from a 30-mph cruise to 50-mph) told a slightly different story. Here’s where the XS really put the smackdown on the others; it romped from 30 to 50 in 6 seconds flat, where the next closest competitor (Verado) could only muster an 8.1-second clocking. The Yamaha’s midrange torque topped the Suzuki’s, as it finished a full second (8.3 vs. 9.3) ahead to finish third. To those doubting Thomases, we used no fewer than four (!) methods of speed measurement: two handheld Garmin GPS 12 units, a boat-mounted Lowrance GPS (which was a delight to use, by the way) and a calibrated Stalker Pro k-band handheld radar speed gun. For rpm readings, we used our own digital FloScan tach for all of the engines.'
'FUEL ECONOMY: SURPRISE!
No surprise to us at /BWB/ but probably a disappointment to tree-huggers everywhere, the two-stroke Mercury 250XS eked out a win in the fuel-economy challenge, too. With an average of 3.5 mpg across the entire rpm range, it bested the Suzuki by one-tenth of a gallon. The Yamaha came in a close third at 3.2 mpg, and the absolutely thirsty Verado finished a distant fourth with a 2.8 mpg average.
With today’s fuel prices, this is a critical part of the test. We ran these numbers several times to be sure, and came up with the same results each time. We also checked our results against Yamaha’s and Mercury’s factory digital fuel-flow meters.
While the 250XS took top honors for overall average fuel economy, the Suzuki 250 actually achieved the highest mpg recording at cruise speeds. With a 4.3 mpg recording at 24.7 mph and 3000 rpm, it bested Merc’s XS by a tenth of a mpg at the same rpm.'
'FINAL OBSERVATIONS
Clearly, four-strokes have a long way to go yet in the top speed, acceleration and even the fuel-economy wars before they can catch a well-tuned DFI two-stroke like Mercury’s 250XS. It’s a shame we didn’t have Evinrude’s 250 E-Tec in the mix to compare — they were very conspicuous in their absence. In addition, Yamaha has since last season discontinued the 25-inch Saltwater Series version of their vaunted VMax 250 HPDI, so we sorely missed their two-stroke participation in this test. Perhaps in the future we’ll do another two-stroke/four-stroke 250 shootout — on a bass boat — among 20-inch-shaft engines. '
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There is more out there about this issue, look for it and you will find like articles. I see this regularly on the Walleye trails out there; simply put the actual on the water fuel economy seems to be better with the DFI Two Strokes, especially the Mercury.
From what I have read, the DFI Evinrude is the hardest two stroke on fuel, but not by what would be considered a terrible amount.
Also consider the weight/power ratio, time to plane, etc. That's why at the end of the day there is more gasoline in the tank of some DFI two stroke powered rigs than a comparable boat powered by a 4 stroke; even one from the same engine builder.
What does this mean to the buyer? it's only a portion of the buying decision, but reading this article and others like it send me back to my OptiMax. Speed, acceleration, and fuel economy offset the noise and need to fill that oil tank. Paying for maintenance on the four strokes can offset the oil costs in a DFI, check the numbers.
Would I buy a Mercury, Yamaha or Suzuki 4 stroke V6 outboard? If I was a general consumer looking for a 4 stroke because of the features and benefits, sure. But, I'd gather all the facts first.
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Posts: 5874
| mskyhntr - 6/13/2007 10:03 AM
Just got off the phone with Yamaha, there best 2 stroke uses 10-15 % MORE fuel than the same horsepower 4 stroke, no matter what horese power it is, and POLLUTES more it still sends oil out the exhaust,that's why it always needs to be topped off, just not as much as the old 2 strokes, Also top end should be the same,just hole shot is a little slower. Also he said fuel and oil savings will justify the extra cost of the 4 stroke and resale down the road will be higher.
So what you're saying, or the Yamaha guy, is that in addition to being slow, Yamaha's also get worse fuel economy, and pollute more. Go figure.
Also, I have been in plenty of Yamah 4 stroke powered boats. Not one. I say again, Not one, has a comparable top end to a similar boat with a 2 stroke on it. Case in point. 05 620 Ranger with a 225 Yammy 4 stroke. Terrible hole shot, and a top end of 47-49. Same boat, pick your 225 HP 2 stroke. Opti, E-Tec, and yes, even the Yamaha HPDI, all are significantly faster, holeshot, midrange, and topend. 52-56 MPH.
Fuel savings? What fuel savings? It's a well known fact that the big 2 stroke DFI's get better fuel mileage than the 4-strokes. And not just at WOT. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | is it safe to assume that Yamaha isn't your favorite Shep? ...
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | That is some interesting material, I remeber several years ago looking at some mpg published by manufactures, and showed the their 4 strokes slight outperformed the 2-strokes. Interesting seeing the result from the independent study. So the biggest saving on a 4 stroke is not burning the oil, so at the price difference from a 2 to a 4 stroke, you will need to burn alot of oil.
Troyz |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | All I know is that I've got an opti and my next motor will be a Zuki. Aside from Slamrs problem, I've never heard of another issue with their motors. Frankies took one in on trade with 4000 hours on it. They sold it (and told them it had 4000 hours on it) 2 years ago and it's still running.
It really boils down to what kind of boat you're putting it on. If you've got a go-fast boat (ie bass boat) you go with the 2 stroke. If you've got a boat that isn't that fast and/or just want a motor that's going to start everytime for years on end go with the Zuki. |
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| that 620 couldn't get over 49? c'mon...also, don't 4 strokes perform better once broken in ? not sure how many hours that takes..and who knows, maybe the guy had it propped for a better hole shot and didn't play with the propping to make it have a higher top end...I guess I'll let you know how many mph I lose, if any after the Suzi is installed...I'm guessing it goes just about as fast |
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Posts: 814
| All the merc's in that test had lab tweaked props the yamaha prop was STOCK! Shep we all know 2 strokes have better hole shot thats a no brainer never said they didn't but top speed should be the same. And if you read carefully I said yes ALL TWO STROKES pollute MORE than 4 strokes. Go start a harley then go start a 125cc dirt bike same scenario. Also You should know that tweaked props get better mileage because they are more efficient, no slip, more bow lift, and more bite,anyone who wants a prop tutorial should call dah custom props and ask for John he'll set yah strait! Just reading between the lines!!!
Edited by mskyhntr 6/13/2007 1:55 PM
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| I'm guessing it goes just about as fast
everything listed in the article is "just about" the same. if the differences matter, they're going to be small differences.
top speed with the Opti was 64.5; assuming the Suzi pushed a little faster after raising it higher you could safely assume right around 60mph.
same with the fuel economy, they're all "just about" the same.
although not listed in that article, it's same with emissions, "just about" the same as they're all tremendously clean-running now days. my 200hp Opti is "ultra low" by California standards, whereas my 9.9hp 4-stroke is something like "super low"...i forget the exact titles but it's the top and 2nd-top categories. they are decidedly not big polluters and comply with industry emission standards.
i have noticed that the 200hp Suzi on Norm's boat is quite a bit quieter than the 200hp Opti on my boat; though this only really matters at idle or slow speeds. at 50-60mph the difference is minimal and sucked away behind you anyhow. i kinda like the growl of the big 2-stroke for getting here and there.
i definitely want it quiet when going slow, however, something i loved about my previous 70hp Suzi tiller: which is why i got a 9.9hp 4-stroke kicker on this one.
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| so what is top speed of Norms boat with the Suzi and right prop and what is top speed of yours?
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| as reported in the article, my Opti is faster out of the hole, and faster top-end: but they're "just about" the same.
Norm reports his 200hp Suzi runs 57 with a "light load" and 2 guys; 52-54 with 3 guys fully loaded.
i've had mine at 59 with a "light load"/2 guys; and 58 with a full load and 3 people.
my motor also is not yet broke in, as it has less than 10 hours on it.
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9...
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| I'm going to assume he has a stainless prop too...aluminum props don't get nearly the top end...also I was told by the big Suzi dealer the propping of the Suzi's takes some finesse and might take a few props to get it right as there are a ton less options for props for them currently..just what he said..
I guess we'll have to race Lambeau...
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| here's a test Suzuki did on a 185vs, very similiar weight/length/width to what I have..has a shallower/faster hull but it did just under 60 with the 175 Suzi...
http://www.suzukimarine.com/boatbuilders/boattests/ranger_df175s1.p...
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | BN,
I am running a Suzi, and love it. That doesn't mean it is all things. It is quiet, scary quiet, don't even know its running quiet. Its also slower than an Opti. Its a fact of life, it is slower. I may be able to tweak the prop just a bit, maybe just taking some nicks out of it would help too. I can't hit 57 on a regular basis, everything has to be perfect to get that. Last night running across Moens with two guys and 50 gals of fuel it ran 55. It seem as if the Opti's are about 3-5mph faster than I am.
Is that a bad thing? Most of the time I am running around 40-45, so top end is not a big issue to me, if it was I would have my prop cupped and the dings taken out of it to get a couple more MPH. Did I mention it was quiet. That makes a big difference to me. I can talk to clients while the motor is running, try that in an Opti.
The fuel thing is a non-issue if all your concerned about is top end. None of them are worth a hoot running WOT. Like I said normally I am running around 2/3 throttle.
I am incredibly pleased with my rig. I am not overly concerned about the top end speed (although going fast is way cool). I feel the Suzi really enhances what I have my boat for, which ultimately is taking clients fishing.
The long and short of it, going faster than everyone else is cool, may help in a tourney, but won't put more fish in your boat!
As a side note......you would never believe how many so called 60mph boats can't keep up with my doggy Suzi!
Edited by nwild 6/13/2007 2:42 PM
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Posts: 5874
| The boat was a 2005 620, with a 225 Yamaha 4 stroke. Don't know which prop, but it definately wasn't propped for hole shot. Took forever to get on plane. Once up, it topped out at 49. This was on Green Bay last July, 2nd day of the FLW tour event. Maybe he had too much prop and wasn't running high enough RPM's, maybe the motor wasn't in the right hole, maybe he didn't know to trim it up all the way. I can't answer those questions. I only know what I observed. Either way, all I'm saying is that I haven't seen a naturally aspirated 4 stroke perform as well as a DFI 2-stroke.
Maybe a longer hole shot, slightly lower top end, along with mid range performance, doesn't amount to a hill of beans. And maybe being quieter is a deciding factor. And maybe it's because your friend has a certain motor, or you, or somone you know, had a bad one from a certain manufacturer. Pick a motor on what you want from it, just like you do your boat, rods, reels, baits, leaders, gas, oil, beer, ...... The list goes on.
I've said it before. All the manufactures make good motors these days. Pick the one you want, and I won't criticize your decision. I may have some fun with it, but I won't ever say you made a bad decision. It's your money, you should spend it how you think you should.
That said, I hope your present motor isn't terminal, but if it is, good luck with your next one. |
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| sounds good Norm...I'm not looking to have the fastest boat...If I was I wouldn't own what I do...just wanted to make sure it would get over 50 at least!
as going fast esp to outrun lightning and storms does come in handy...
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| you had 50 gallons of fuel in that thing.????..geeeezuz Norm that should last all summer! I don't think I ran mine with over 25 gallons in it...
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | I would expect the Suzi to be a little slower, the are geared a little lower, also 4 stroke motor weight a little more than the 2-strokes.
In the study if merc was using a "tweaked prop" versus a factory stock that would make a huge difference. When I went from a raker 22 to tempest plus 23 picked up 4-5 mph. Than just stock props, you can change quite a bit by playing with props.
Troyz
I thinks we just want to race boats on pinks. |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | BN,
I hit the jackpot and thought I would fill'er up!! After I did it I had to adjust the asking price on my rig to compensate for a full fuel tank!
Actually, I am fishing the Three Lakes Chain alot right now and I can put 70-150 miles a week on the boat there. The 1890 doesn't row very well, and I don't want to gas up every couple days, so when I stop I fill it.
Edited by nwild 6/13/2007 2:52 PM
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Posts: 5874
| I keep mine full all the time. I don't like going over 60!
Oh, and sled. No, Yamaha is not my favorite motor. Merc's are. But I don't really have anything against them. Other than they are slow, and gray, and you can't hear them coming. and....
I actually almost had Evinrudes this year. Until I found out I was going to have to pay for them.
As I said, they all make great motors. Pick the one you like, and have a great time fishing.
Edited by Shep 6/13/2007 3:43 PM
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Posts: 144
| If you plan on getting rid of your kicker, go Suzuki. If you keep your kicker I would go with the Opti. I had one small block opti( 150 hp) that would load up the plugs, miss and generally run like crap when you trolled with it for any length of time. This is not to say that all small block optimax motors won't troll, but mine wouldn't. Other than that, all three optis I have had have been trouble free. |
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Posts: 32914
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's plain common knowledge that the DFI two strokes are stronger, faster, and achieve better fuel economy IN THE FIELD RUNNING ON CONSUMER'S boats. Htnr, get out to a major event where the Pros are running almost to the edge of their fuel load and see who is traveling the longest distance. Absolutely no question the DFI two strokes are faster.The Props in the B&W test, by the way, were supposed to have been chosen by the engine builder for what they felt would get top performance for their product.
The Bass and Walleye Boat writers ( read the comments) already suspected from previous testing the DFI Merc would take overall honors and beat the 4s on the fuel economy side of things, but really had hoped to test the Etec against the others. No idea why Bombardier declined to send motors. I see them on the FLW and PWT, and they seem to be strong, quiet as quiet, good running engines. As far as emissions, I'll find the Bombardier, Yamaha and Merc stuff if I get a chance and post it.
The new DFI 2s are NOT 'dirt bike' or motorcycle technology; Bombardier (not a tiny or uninformed company by any means) has bet everything 2 strokes are the future in 'green and clean' outboard technology.
I believe I presented facts, and backed them up with what the outboard companies are saying about their engines at OEM meetings I attend, experience in the field at literally dozens of Pro Walleye events, and salted all that with the idea the differences are not huge, and the decision on which engine one buys will be based on 'feature/benefits' and each customer's interpretation of all of this.
The Suzi is a beautifully engineered and well built motor. Are they warranty proof? Of course not. My son ran a 70 that spent a fair amount of time in the shop, but the service was excellent and dealer network plenty strong.
So study up, make a decision based on facts, and enjoy the new motor. Tomorrow, I order a new 200 OptiMax and a new 9.9 Pro Kicker.
Why not a Verado? I ran one two years ago; it was an amazing engine. Fast, quiet, and strong, that supercharged 4 stroke was very nice. I just can't see spending the extra money on one. That's me! We will see where Mercury and Yamaha go in the future with the DFI and 4 stroke technology. Suzi is strictly 4, Yamaha both, Mercury both, and Bombardier strictly 2. Interesting. |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | "if it aint black on the back, the boat aint worth a crap."
My Suzi is a very nice shade of black. I am sure that's what you meant.....isn't it? |
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| I was thinking the same thing Norm...!
I don't buy the opinion that you will get more for your boat down the road with a Merc on the back as opposed to something else...depending on what year/model Merc it is I think you could easily get less..just from what I've seen in the last 4-5 yrs of watching people try to sell their boats...
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Posts: 32914
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | bn,
Mercury has the highest resale value on the market in the USA, especially in the freshwater fishing arena. Not surprising, as they also have the largest market share.
Your Suzi will resell just fine, IF you ever decide to sell her. With the boat and motor you'll be running, I'm betting you are set for a very long time. |
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| It will sell better with that Suzi over that spent EFI that is for sure! |
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Posts: 5874
| That fact that it is a 690 is what's going to sell, not so much the motor. The 690 is still one one the best boats on the water. A better musky boat than the 619's and 620's, IMHO. Love the layout. |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Merc. just came out with a 175 Opti Pro XS. Available in July. Brad, this motor with a 21" Tempest on your 690 will definately get you past 60 MPH, NOT THAT IT MATTERS, ya right. |
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Posts: 373
Location: Browerville, Minnesota | Just bought a new Lund, and had no doubts as to what was going on the back end. OPTIMAX all the way. I can't say I know much about Suzuki, having never been in boat powered by one, but have heard lots of good things about them. My brother has the exact same boat as I do, but he has a Yammy on the back. Quiet...yes, but seems really doggie out of the hole. When I want to go, I want to go now. One of my best fishing buddies was nothing but a 4 stroke man for the longest time. Couldnt even get him to talk 2 strokes, nothing good to say about them. Then he got his first Opti and he swears he will never change. I just like the performance that I have seen from the Optimax's. |
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| Thanks for all the advice/comments....after thinking it over I went with a new 175 Suzi on the back....Mercury is a good motor...but I went with the nice quiet Suzi that still should push me along fast enough....
On the rig by end of week hopefully..... |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Cool, Let us know how it performs, after break in of course. I am very interested, because i have the same boat. |
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| Well I got the call she is ready to be picked up..they had it out on the lake last nite and it hit 56-57 on gps at 5800 rpms...said it should get about 6k out of it once broken in and maybe push the 60 mark.
I will report on how it performs for me as I'll be testing it out tonite....
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| Had the new motor out tonite...very impressed...quiet and pretty powerful...not as snappy as a 2 stroke but it pulled hard and got my 690 on plane very quickly with me and Dan O in the boat and 1/2 tank of gas...ran around the lake all evening and I don't think my gas gauge budged!!
quickly had it up to 54.5 on gps before backing off...had a bit to go....
it brought us a bit of luck as we scored a mid 30 incher and a 42"
6 yr warranty with it...no worries.
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| i bet it feels gooood to be out and running again and having the confidence that comes with a new motor sitting on the back of your boat.
enjoy!
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| just read thru this thread ,and being a certified outboard mechanic,I would hope you guys who are running your motors wot for extended periods of time know the damage that can be done.Case in point you don't drive your car pedal to the floor a motor is a motor after all. |
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Posts: 7068
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Guest,
How long is too long to run at WOT? Motors exploding freaks me out constantly!!! |
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| that's why I have the 6 yr warranty! drive em like ya stole em...
ok maybe not but running a boat WOT for a few minutes here and there isn't going to make them blow up.... hahhahhahaa |
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Posts: 7068
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | bn - 6/29/2007 9:43 AM
that's why I have the 6 yr warranty! drive em like ya stole em...
ok maybe not but running a boat WOT for a few minutes here and there isn't going to make them blow up.... hahhahhahaa
Is it POSSIBLE your: my 2000 175 EFI might be going to the outboard junk yard....MIGHT be a symptom of driving it like you stole it?
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| yah maybe....or maybe the guys that owned it before me....I wasn't overly hard on the motor....our lakes are only a couple miles across so it was never WOT for more than a few minutes...
what's the point of having a boat that can do 55 if your motor can't handle it?
seems race cars are driven WOT for hours on end and do just fine...
maybe I need a race car engine on the back....
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | you guys gotta be kidding me! ... i've run and will continue to run my yami 2-stroker wot without concern. no different than a good 2-stroke sled ... 5200 rpms at cruise trimmed up ...
so you can run 75% of a motor or you'll blow it up? gimme a break |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I do NOT believe this "guest" who claims to be a mechanic.
If the manufacturer of an outboard engine (water-cooled, I might add) advises that the maximum safe operating range is 5500-6400 RPM, for example, then you should be able to run it to 6400 without difficulty. If we were talking about air-cooled engines like an aircraft engine, then that might be another story--simply due to improper cooling. But the engine guys that work on my Verado implore me to run it near WOT...which by the way is only about 6200 RPM on my boat.
These engines are designed and built to run within the specifications established by the manufacturer. So as long as you have adequate cooling (easily verifiable by a water pressure gauge), you are good to go--according to everyone I have spoken to. And besides; most of the time the engine is propped in such a way that you won't be able to even *reach* the top of the power range at WOT.
Here's another way of looking at it... If you look at the power curve of a Honda 200, it is rated to make 200 horsepower at 5500 RPM; however the operating range is 5000-6000 RPM. When I ran one the thing was propped so that it would only turn about 5750 at WOT--simply because there wasn't a prop in the size I needed to get the little extra to get to 6000 RPM. But when I talked to the Honda rep he told me not to worry about it as that particular model engine didn't make much additional power until it went well over 6000 RPM--in other words, outside of the normal operating range specified by Honda; a range where you would never want to run it.
Now contrast this with the Honda 225. Even though it makes its max 225hp turning 5500 RPM, that engine's power curve shows that it continues to make more horsepower all the way up through 6000 RPM. So it should be obvious that a guy would want to turn that engine as close to 6000 RPM as possible. Indeed, the Honda rep (Pete Sullivan, as I recall) confirmed this to me.
Do not confuse WOT with maximum *POSSIBLE* RPM...the two are not the same. I would check the owners manual, but if there aren't any restrictions imposed by the manufacturer in terms of maximum power settings for certain time periods (there aren't for my Verado, after the first 10 hours of use), then run it WOT.
TB |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | been running and racing high-performance two-stroke race sleds for over 20 years and as long as you have fuel/oil delivery and exhaust systems that are set up properly you can run the dog out of them ... and these outboards are essentially "de-tuned" and run fat from the factory to protect from warranty claims so there's even more you can get out of them "safely" if you ever wanted to ... anybody saying you can't run the full range top and bottom of a 2-stroke doesn't know much or hasn't held the throttle very long.
if motors blow, there is a "flaw" ... either fuel/oil delivery, cooling or exhaust ... plain and simple
the old opti's had a cooling issue with the way it was engineered ... i got to pay for 2 of them in a row back in the day ... there are surely other "flawed" either motors or designs but thinking that you have to "protect" your motor would really suck ... i like to use the stuff i pay a lot for.
Edited by jonnysled 6/29/2007 10:56 AM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Amen good brother, amen...
TB |
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Suzuki or OptiMax???