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| Just want to say "Great job" by Rob Kimm on his article in this weeks current Outdoor News May 11th issue
Robs article deals with the selfish and dispicable act of "Knowingly" targeting and fishing for Minnesota muskies before the season starts.
Its about time somebody had the guts to publicly write about this selfish practice by some who feel they have the right to be self appointed biologists and enact their "own" laws,
If you get a chance read it this is VERY well done
ce again "Great Job" Rob |
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| Perfect timming for this |
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| It's almost as selfish as accusing everyone who throws a rapala or a spinnerbait into a lake with muskies of muskie fishing. I've seen muskis inc. members question a father and son at the Lake Harriet landing about muskie fishing even though based on their equipment it was obvious they weren't. If you want people to stop being self-appointed biologists try and stop being self-appointed DNR wardens. I mean sworall was on a lake with muskies using a spinnerbait. Accuse him of muskie fishing and see how far you get with that. |
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rappalas are one thing,,,,8 inch baits and figure eighting are another on a lake that has few and declining pike population,,,,Talking to pepole first seems a better option then calling a game warden and seeing them get ticketed |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | This subject is a slippery one at best. Some of our best baits for trophy spring walleyes are larger Rapalas and Baby Depthraiders(considered muskie baits by many), yet I've probably caught more spring muskies on a jig and redtail(classic walleye bait).
Don't know if this has been covered in another post already, but I recently heard a rumor that in Northern Wisconsin the muskie season will be opened with the general gamefish opener the first Saturday in May for C&R only until Memorial Day weekend. I'm torn on that one. On one hand it would allow fisherman to carry the proper landing net for safe release of muskies that would probably be caught anyway, plus tourism would get a boost. On the other hand I'd hate to see spawning females targeted and possibly injured.
Any way this is looked at, it is indeed a talking point.
JS |
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Without having read Rob's aritcle yet, I'm assuming it was aimed directly at folks who are targeting muskies.
People who read that article know if they fit that category, and deserve to be "scolded" at the very least.
Hopefully having someone talk about the subject will change a few minds and get them not to target muskies before opener.
I think writing about it and discussing this issue openely is a lot better way to handle it than confronting people on the water or calling them in.
JS
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Posts: 291
Location: Minneapolis | I had one guy at the Calhoun landing on Saturday flat-out tell me they were fishing for muskies. I told him the season didn't open until June. He seemed surprised, but then he said they were using small, northern-sized lures, but those small lures work really well for muskies.
What are you going to do? Calhoun does have decent northerns in it, but that guy was obviously not really after them. |
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| I am glad here in NJ you are allowed to fish for fish regardless of the season, if it is closed...It is just catch are release during the closed time. These for walleye, bass, muskie...all of them....just gives us one less thing to argue amongst ourselves about...Ben |
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Posts: 382
| The one question I have, especially with the stocked lakes is, if there is no natural reproduction, why close the season? At our MI meeting last week some guys were helping the DNR with the test netting on Cedar Lake. The fish were done spawing around May 9th of last week and season still doesn't open for nearly 3 more weeks? This is central MN, so the metro you know the spawn has been finished up for awhile. I know the spawn may vary a little (days) from year to year, but not months year to year. I think the MDNR could do away with the whole issue by having the openers the same for all the gamefish species. You always hear of people fishing out of season, but you never, ever hear of someone getting nailed for it?? |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Komer, the DNR has been kicking around making the muskie opener the same as the bass opener for a little while. The problem is that the fish up on Vermillion spawn at a different time then they do in the metro. I asked them about having 2 openers and they weren't for it. Too many regs to keep straight was their response.
Back when the muskie opener date was picked we were seeing cooler springs then we have in the past couple years. In a typical year I don't see water temps on tonka in the 60's until June. We had 61 on tonka last Wed. If things keep going like they are we may want to see about opening the muskie season sooner. |
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| Can someone post a link to the Outdoor News article? |
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I remember being out in the middle of May lifting nets on Elk lake in the early 90's.
On Leech they spawn even later, so there definately can be muskies still spawning during walleye opener on most muskie lakes in any given year.
Many of our stocked lakes do have natural reproduction. Vermillion being one that has been quite successful.
I don't see anything wrong with telling people not to target muskies out of season.
I'm not going to turn anyone in, or get into an arugument on the water, but I don't have any problem speaking out about it, and nobody else should either.
JS
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Posts: 52
| Agree completely B420. It becomes even more obvious when you have a lake with only tigers in it! Why should I be sitting here tearing my hair out when a bunch of sterile tigers are swimming around. BRAVO B420. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | ETL, we talked to the DNR about opening the tiger lakes on walleye/pike opener and it's not out of the question. The DNR is a little concerned with enforcement. It's something that we'll be looking at when we have the round table meeting this summer when we go through the long-term muskie program.
Edited by Muskie Treats 5/15/2007 8:32 AM
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| The Tiger lakes SHOULD be open to early season fishing,,,its a way to get our stocking money worth out of them because hardly anybody uses them when the regular season starts,,let alone the fact that the DNR confirms on average they live around 7 yrs,,thiswas meant to be an 'action' species |
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Posts: 136
| Yea but then you would be fishing in NJ. No offense but it's no mystery why MN is the best muskie fishery in the US. Thank the DNR and those who practice good ethics |
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| Nope, it just has 11,000 lakes and lots of big lakes...I have fished MN, NJ, IL , MI,NY KY, IA, Ont. Quebec....I have a decent background and think my point in valid and MN is not in the TOP 3 listed above in my humble but well traveled opinion....Ben |
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| I agree this is a very important topic and one I struggle with every year. I do not intentionally target muskies before the opener but my favorite lakes to fish are White Bear and Forest and for the last 10- years my absolute best producer for early season pike is a 6" jake. The baby DR is a close second. I also "downsize" to rouges and xraps and they catch pike too, but not as well as the jake or baby DR. Over the last 10 years I have NEVER caught a pre-opener musky on a Jake, but I have caught a couple (NOT intentionally) on a rouge.
So, one could legitmately taget pike using Jakes and be accused of targeting ski's (but never catch one) and conversely one could intentionally target (and catch) ski's with rouges but no one would ever think they were targeting ski's.
Furthermore, every years lots of walleye and bass guys who never fished for muskies in thier lives catch ski's before the musky opener throwing crankbaits for 'eyes or spinnerbaits for bass. I think the real reason why some guys are "lured" into intentionally taregt ski's before the opener is because they know ski's will be caught anyway so why shouldn't it be them? Do we musky fishermen really think we are that much better that we'd catch lots more ski's than would be caught anyway?
Last point. If we accept that some muskies will be caught before the musky opener anyway, who would you want to catch them? A walleye banger using light tackle that exhausts the fish and then has no net (aka dead fish), or someone targeting ski's with the right equipment and successfully releases them? I persoanlly struggle with the decision of whether I should have my big net with me, just in case.
There's got to be a better way to protect the naturally producing fish up north than this silly system of multiple openers we have today.
Otherwise, the only conclusion I can reach is that musky fishermen should just stay off any waters that have muskies until the musky opener.
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What this comes down to is ethics, and credibility of muskie anglers as being conservation minded anglers.
If you are on the water just because you know you might get lucky and catch a muskie, or actually trying to before season, than you are in one case skirting the edge of being an ethcical fishermen, and in the other outright breaking the law.
Everybody has thier own code of ethics. You can decide what you want to do, and why you're doing it.
Does this meant you shouldn't be on a muskie lake fishing for other species? Not to me, but as a seasoned muskie angler (not someone who just caught their first one by accident) I would never take an accidental out of the water to measure or take a picture. Unhook and let go immediately.
Having multiple opener dates isn't silly if you want to protect spawning species, and allow anglers maximum fishing time during the season for all species.
John
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | "Having multiple opener dates isn't silly if you want to protect spawning species, and allow anglers maximum fishing time during the season for all species."
I agree 100%, especially when taking the size of MN into account. There is a good deal of variation from say French lake to LOTW as far as ice out times, spawn times etc.
MN also uses lake specific regs on many waters for many reasons, really don't see how this would be any different. |
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Posts: 110
Location: Albertville, Minnesota | I guess my only opinion on this is I don't want to see pictures of muskies before the season starts, don't care if it was accidently caught or not. You "accidently" catch one, it better be off the hook ASAP.
Chris |
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Posts: 93
Location: Minneapolis, MN | It seems odd to me that Michigan -- specifically the U.P. -- opens 10 days BEFORE the northern Wisconsin opener. Wouldn't those U.P. fish still be spawning? Or is the WIDNR being overly cautious by opening later?
Edited by stinger 5/16/2007 12:26 PM
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Posts: 3149
| No feedback from you guys on the article yet????? I thought it was excelent,,,, |
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Posts: 136
| They should do away with tiger lakes in my opinion. Not enough bang for the buck. |
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| Some people here seem to be justifying that it is OK to target muskies before the season if they are tigers and/or you think the fish are finished spawning. The problem with this, is that you are robbing all the other anglers of the excitement of opening day.
I used to love opening day. The idea of showing the fish a muskie bait for the first time that season. All of the people who are out prefishing ruin that experience for me and the others who wait for the season to open whether it is tigers or not. I am not against changing the seasons, I would love to get an ealier start. I am just begging all the prefisherman to stop.
It's pretty frustrating to be up bright an early on opening day and raise a number of large fish that already have fresh hook marks on their faces. So whoever it was that posted about whether it really matters it does.
There are plenty of great pike lakes that don't have muskies in them. I stay off the designated muskie lakes all together until muskie opens. |
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| Exactly!!!
People who "Intentionally" target muskies before the season "Rob" the guy who gets up at 2am on opening day and hustles down to the boat launch so he can be the first one to show the muskies musky size baits, His willingness to obey the laws and ambition on the opener are slighted by people who just say 'me first regardless"
Theres a reason why Canadian fly in lakes are multiple catch- because of less pressure, Theres an abadoned DNR rearing pond here in Minn where its possible to catch 8 fish a day because it dosent recive pressure,,,Let everbody have the "same" chance on the oppener |
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| Finally a bit of truth...not really concerned with the fish...just don't want to be "robbed" of your chance shall we say virgin waters...Sometimes it takes a while but the high horse will reach the ground....BenR |
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| I think Hooker and MuskieFreak bring up the key issue - muskie guys somehow feel that fish caught before the opener have "robbed" them of the opportunity. While I agree and I feel similarly, I'm not at all convinced that guys "intentionally targeting" ski's before the opener add much to this. Every year I talk to many guys that have caught ski's before the opener and had no idea ski's were even in the lake. The number of muskie guys on most lakes (especially in the metro) is far lower than the non-muskie guys. If you've got lots of true pike, bass and walleye guys throwing spinnerbaits, rattletraps, husky jerks, xraps, etc. they will for sure catch some skis. If a guy truly targeting bass (ie never fishes for ski's and not familair with the regs) raises a nice ski they almost for sure will throw back to it a few times trying to catch it. An "uneducated" spring ski is somewhat more likely to eat the right presentation and there you go - a "missed" opportunity for the dedicated, law-abiding musky angler. That guy for sure will take pictue etc, and if they run into a pattern where there are raising multiple skis they will likely keep working the pattern. I don't see any way this can ever be prevented and thus my use of the word silly for the different opener dates. I'm NOT trying to condone targeting ski's before the opener, but I think we as muskie anglers are kidding ourselves if we think the different opener is really doing much to protect the fishery (at least not here in the metro). |
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Posts: 3149
| BenR you obvioulsly DONT live here in Minn anymore,,,I spent 46 hrs at the MPLS sports show selling raffle tickets and will be spending 24 more at the Cabelas sidewalk sale 'on a weekend durring muskie season" for stocking White bear lake,,,Ive fished White Bear twice in 5 yrs,,,"sound self motivated"
Last year when muskiefreak spoke at our Muskies inc chapter he donated his speaking fee to our stocking fund despite having a newborn on the way,,, "sound self motivated"?????
Both of us have fished every muskie lake in the TC area except one-Lake Rebbeca because it also serves has a brood stock lake,,,"sound self motivated"
Thanks for your input from what??? 800-1000 miles away Its obvious youve maintained a acurate pipeline of info on people here
Edited by happy hooker 5/18/2007 5:54 AM
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| Ben R;
I completely agree with Hookers sentiment of being robbed by anglers who are intentionally fishing on opener.
Are you saying that because you have one concern, that you can't have another?
It makes me just as mad that a musky angler would potentially, intentionally have a negative impact on the fishery, put a smudge on muskie anglers everywhere by not following the DNR's rules and "rob" the guys who actually wait until opener for their fair shot at a first cast at a muskie.
John |
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Posts: 52
| I don't advocate fishing for skies before season but I do advocate changing the season. Having opener this late is absurd and at some level we all know it. For crying out loud how many times have I heard "well in the spring downsize, use a large bass sized lure". Hmmmmm......
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I think it was stated already, but in lager lakes such as Leech, Cass, Winnie, and Vermillion (which has been found to have very successful natural reproduction), spawning is normally in May, and not unusual to be going on during Walleye opener.
Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with having it closed for awhile after spawning is done. They are easy target to sight fish when they are up in the shallows and actively feeding to recover from spawning. Successful or not, fish do go through the act of spawning.
Nothing stupid about a later opener.
As far a downsizing lures, most of my early fish are on 10" crank baits. Not sure why lure size would matter in determining when you should have a season open.
Maybe that's good advice to those fishing before season opens?
JS
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Posts: 52
| ---I think it was stated already, but in lager lakes such as Leech, Cass, Winnie, and Vermillion (which has been found to have very successful natural reproduction), spawning is normally in May, and not unusual to be going on during Walleye opener.
Fine. So customize the regs so the metro or at least the tiger lakes are fishable earlier. I have no problem with expending effort to nurture natural reproductio in sp. lakes.
---Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with having it closed for awhile after spawning is done. They are easy target to sight fish when they are up in the shallows and actively feeding to recover from spawning. Successful or not, fish do go through the act of spawning.
Nothing stupid about a later opener.
Well yeah there is something wrong with it because alot of us would really like to go fishing... Again, can't we target seasons so that the regulations fit the biology of the lake rather than just pick an arbitrary date???
---As far a downsizing lures, most of my early fish are on 10" crank baits. Not sure why lure size would matter in determining when you should have a season open.
Maybe that's good advice to those fishing before season opens?
The point is everyone and their mother are on the lakes right now throwing X-raps and hooking muskies.
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Posts: 215
Location: Twin Cities | The current opener date might seem late to you and me, but the DNR did not just pick an "arbitrary" date for opener. The DNR used all their resources, knowledge and research to find a time when muskies were safe to fish under fair conditions. Although the current and past years warm springs probabaly does not parrallel what the origonal opening date parameters were, it doesnt give us the right to complain or fish b4 the season opens. Should the DNR look into split seasons and/or special start dates - sure, but will they? We can only hope.
Imagine if the situation was flipped, and MN muskie opener had been in the height of the Z spawn due to an extremely cold spring, would anyone be saying the opener should be later, and not fish till the spawn was over? Highly dought it, although we should if we cared.
Take the good with the bad. Leave em alone - Good article and good discussion. |
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Posts: 2378
| Even the Losers - 5/18/2007 7:57 AM
I don't advocate fishing for skies before season but I do advocate changing the season. Having opener this late is absurd and at some level we all know it. For crying out loud how many times have I heard "well in the spring downsize, use a large bass sized lure". Hmmmmm......
MN currently has what is widely considered one of, if not THE, best Muskie programs in the country. That can be attributed to the regs that the DNR has in place.
Why mess with success?
Just because we want to go fishing a few weeks earlier is not a good reason to change the opener date
Edited by BALDY 5/18/2007 10:15 AM
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Posts: 52
| I'm willing to meekly submit to the will of the apparent majority, and will as soon as you guys acknowledge that a late season on metro muskie lakes makes no sense. Deal? |
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Posts: 3149
| ETL
Im with you on the early tiger openner in fact I posed this question to Ron P head of dnr fishereis almost two years ago at the french lake sprearing meeting where he was present,,,at the time he sincerly liked it no humoring,,,Muskie anglers should push for this,,,it would be on the 'Designated stocked tiger lakes" that dosent mean people get to go out and fish Mille lacs and Vermillion and say their fishing tigers. |
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Posts: 7049
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Not to throw a monkey in the wrench in this argument, but there is something none of you have brought up: while muskies are spawning (at least my experience and others) is that they dont eat lures or livebait presentations. If you believe this statement, then the "leave them alone and let them spawn" argument has really no merit. Down here in IL and IN, where there is no closed season, we fish year long, and the fish just dont eat during the spawn. These arent bass or panfish that are more easily taken during the spawn, its actually the opposite.
So, if that is true, what you're saying is that you want fish to get to spawn before they get killed? If that is the case, then what you really mean (if they dont eat during the spawn) is that no one should fish for them ever, because they might get killed, and then not get to spawn. If you fish for them before the spawn or after, it's really the same argument: dont kill them, let them spawn.
Personally, I'm fine with closed seasons, I suppose one could say "at least it gives them a break a certain part of the year" or if you believe in fish conditioning (which scientifically is very difficult to mate lures to muskies even if they are caught) and since it is the law up in MN, then it SHOULD NOT BE DONE. I just wanted to bring this point into the conversation.
And why you cant fish specifically tiger lakes year round makes zero sense to me, except where there are natural muskies, if again believe that you can catch muskies when they are spawning.
*let me state AGAIN: if the season is closed, and you are targeting muskies (either directly or tacitly) you are breaking the law. There is really no ethical debate around that. However, if there is an open season on one species and closed on muskies, should you not get to target the first? Muskies eat whatever they want, whenever they want. Be they mag dawgs (illegal), 6" jakes (iffy), small spinnerbaits (bass primarly, but...) or worms (there is at least one state record out east {might have been broken} where a VERY large, as in over 40lbs, muskie ate a worm that a kid shorefishing was using for panfish) muskies will eat them. Sorry, but it's always going to sting when a walleye/bass/panfish angler boats a muskie by happenstance, when the season is closed. But, let's not let that feeling become something negative. |
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| Hooker, I was just quoting you buddy...Also being 800-1000 miles away gives one a much clearer picture of what is going on than emotionally soaked pawns within the mix. Relax and enjoy the upcoming season...Are things really that bad?...BenR |
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| I had no idea it was illegal to fish with a mag dawg before the muskie opener. I couldn't find that page in the MN or WI regs. We all know what you meant Slamr but it isn't illegal and you know it. |
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Posts: 7049
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | So what you're saying is that you would think that a MNNR or WDNR Conservation guy would believe you were targeting PIKE in a lake with muskies in it, if you were fishing a mag dawg in April or May? I do believe it was pretty obviously stated by me that my thought process was going under the law that is based on officers' interpritation? |
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| I am guessing one of the reasons MN has not gone to multiple opening seasons is because it can be difficult to enforce. (Might work with Tigers though) If someone has a muskie in their possession, they could say they caught it on whatever lake the season was open in. Supposedly, this is part of why they set the new end of the season date. (They wanted to prevent harvest through the ice, but staying open till freeze up is too hard to enforce since it varies from lake to lake.)
This will be the next big debate. (I know probably a different thread but seems to apply here.)
How do you feel about people who will fish for "Northern Pike" in December after the Muskie season is closed? And when this debate is over, I am sure it will leave most people wondering why the DNR just didn't keep the season the same, but say that Muskies are "catch and release only" statewide after Dec. 1st.
Here we go again? |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | muskiefreak - 5/19/2007 9:36 PM
How do you feel about people who will fish for "Northern Pike" in December after the Muskie season is closed? And when this debate is over, I am sure it will leave most people wondering why the DNR just didn't keep the season the same, but say that Muskies are "catch and release only" statewide after Dec. 1st.
A catch and release season after December 1st is definitely where my vote goes. I've only fished muskies once in December, so it's not like this has a huge effect on me personally. But to me, it only makes sense to go to catch and release only over a closed season. You wouldn't have the grey area of what people are targeting. You're eliminating the harvest issue, which is apparently the concern. I'm not sure how a closed season would be better or easier to enforce.
Keep in mind I'm referring to winter fishing here. Having a closed season until the first Saturday in June makes perfect sense to me.
They've already gone to a catch and release only season when it comes to smallmouth bass after a certain date. Seems like a natural to extend that to muskies....
Aaron
Edited by AWH 5/20/2007 11:09 AM
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Muskies do eat pre-spawn, and the stress of a capture can cause them to "abort eggs", mainly it's the handling involved in the un-hooking/release.
You can't pick a small window that will fit year in and year out of when to protect them, so the late season takes care of it all over the state.
Why shoud the DNR take on the responsibility of enforcing different season on multiple lakes, just so a few guys are happy?
It ain't broke, don't fix it.
Fishing for tigers ealier, fine, makes sense.
JS |
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Posts: 2361
| One thing many people are missing also, though musky may not spawn successfully in many lakes, they do have sex, and while wandering around dopily enjoying both the foreplay, the act-and the afterglow smoking a cigarette, they could be very susceptible to snagging operations. In fact they are more susceptible to snagging at this time than any other portion of the year. |
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"BRAVO" Rob Kimm-preseason fishing article