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| I'm a member here. Love the boards, learned some here. My biggest fear with the internet is evenetually with the internet there will be no secret lakes anymore. I feel that if a lake is less than a certain size say 300 acres for instance it should not be allowed to be commented on unless its already known as a musky lake.
How many secret lakes are there out there that people would be crushed to see on the internet boards. Lakes people have fished there whole life due to one post could be ruined. I"m sure many of you have these lakes in your backyard, ontario, other not so well known musky states, and hard to access lakes. What do other members think about this.
I think if it could voted on that certain lakes should have immunity from millions of views by outsiders.
What do you think? I could be wrong here but i'd be crushed to see my lake x on a board here and would probly be so disgusted I would never post again. If moderators were to notified via PM of there small lake being revealed this could solve the problem. I'm not talking about big lakes here I'm talking lakes that never get fished. |
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Posts: 7036
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Interesting thought: that we would regulate your speech MORE than we are already accused of doing. That MuskieFIRST (and thereby WalleyeFIRST, Icefishing FIRST, SalmonFIRST, and all future projects would need to be rolled in I would suppose) would say that some types of positive information sharing SHOULD be allowed, and some should be deleted, to protect that information from some, and keep it only in the hands of others.
Example, I and my old crew started fishing Lake Webster in about the year 2000. On a BUSY day, there would be maybe 3 maybe 4 other muskie boats out there. What you're saying is that since the fishable acreage (outside of the backwater area, though I knwo there are fish there, too) is about 400 acres (which really is still a pretty small lake) this lake should have been kept SECRET from the masses. An example of the fact that the masses truly are going there: I went to Webster with my father last June, on a Wed., to try to avoid the crowds. There were 30 boats chasing muskies.
Ok, so some sort of "gag order" would have been imposed. Allow for the thought that somehow word on the Webster area was ONLY spread by the internet (which a large bit of the hype about this lake was developed through this site and others). Me and my crew, and those that were already fishing the lake would be the only people to fish this lake. So many others who have had such enjoyment on this small gem of a lake, would not have. Their fishing opportunities would be more limited, and they might not have had a chance to get some of the experiences that are very specific to Webster lake. But, me and my friends and a few others would NOT have had to deal with the crowds. Lucky us, too bad for everyone else.
So, back to your point. I'll answer the question for you from OutdoorsFIRST: we're not going to be policing the site to keep people off of lakes. If you want to safeguard your secrets, that's your choice, but we're not going to serve to do this for you. MuskieFIRST is about positive information SHARING, not withholding. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i have a couple of gems that are certainly known by many ... but ... when i take people there it's their choice for who they talk to and how they send the message. i think if people who are "taken" to a lake by someone that has some understanding of it that it just makes sense to consider that they "learned" it and didn't "find" it and respect that when they communicate. now, there are responsibilities that i take on myself by taking people to these places and it's really my own fault if i bring attention to them. but, if i'm going fishing anyway and somebody is with me i want to go somewhere worth going to ...
last year i was introduced to some other waters by some guys ... again, solid producers that many people know of ... but for me i just went fishing with some guys that took me to some great water, we scored, had a great time and that's all i need to say about that.
in a nutshell, you take your own risks bringing people places ... the key is whether you either bring them back or take them to another good one ... and it's all about how you either talk or don't talk.
the good thing is most of these fish are getting released and the "pressure" is all relative eh? for me though i'd rather be welcomed back again or if i was on the water at the same time as the "host" ... i'd rather earn a wave from a friend than otherwise. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | member:
in your post you say that a lake should not be allowed to be commented on if it's under 300 acres and not "known" as a musky lake....hate to break it to ya but if there are muskies in a lake I can guarantee there is more than one person who knows about it...so asking the moderators to delete threads or mention of lakes that are small and might be someones "lake x" i don't think is really going to happen, nor should it...your lake x might be well known to another handfull of guys half way across the state...the internet, email and word of mouth spread lake names pretty fast these days...best bet as I have found out, is only share those lakes with a very very select few and try to impress upon them (without coming across as a hard*ss) that you would like the lake name to not be repeated and to respect the fact you were taken there ....as in, next time i'm there i don't want to pull in and see you and a couple other boats of your buddies on it...good way to ruin a friendship! 
those who know me, know i go out of my way to find such lakes...and i'm fortunate to have a few i would somewhat consider lake x's in that a couple are private and one is semi private and one is just out of the way...have i seen these lakes mentioned on posts before..one i did..and i just let it go...there are lakes all over the musky world that don't get fished hard and have lots of good fish...just try to keep your lake x as quiet as you can is all you can do....
half the fun for me is searching for these so called lake x's and finding out they really are worth the trouble finding...i'm looking forward to this summer as I may have just uncovered another one to add to the arsenal...
fishing a lake in northern wi with good muskies and being the only one on the water on a saturday in july is what it's all about!!
Edited by MSKY HNR 4/6/2007 10:26 PM
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Wouldnt that be taking away someones constitutional rights of freedom of speech? If your 'lake x' isnt putting out numbers of fish as well as a large proportion of BIG fish, I think you are safe. |
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| What I am saying is a lake that no one fishes for muskies period. A lake you take no one too. If you take someone to a lake X it's a risk you take that they will reveal it, I understand this.
Unless you fish a lake like this it is hard to imagine but they are out there. A lake 4 times better than any known public lake. What I am saying is its very sad that someone may have fished a secret lake for 30 years with there family and then a nonmusky fisherman will come onto this site and ask a question like this
"I fished Lake X today and saw 3 50"ers fishing for crappie do any of you fish this lake for musky?"
First any musky fisherman in the area will be there tomorrow and will most likely not even help this new fisherman out. If the lake is 60 Acres are you going to make a posts when you plan on fishing the lake the upcomming week?
If you don't make accomidations as a board of unlimited information you will have members no longer post period. So essentially you'll have nonmusky fisherman revealing spots. Is this really what you want for your site? If you don't have a Lake X revealed to you on this site life will be the same tomorrow as it was today, but If your 60 Acre lake X gets revealed and fished out how will you feel? Horrible. Unless you have had a secret lake for a long time it's hard to fully grasp but i'm sure others feel the same way.
I guess its impossible to keep Lake X secret forever but I'd think MF would want to help their Members who post here daily in some type of manner as opposed to a non musky fisherman spilling the beans and not fully realizing what their post will mean for the lake.
thanks for your time. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I think you are sort of over analyzing it...i've been visiting this site for a few years and I can't think of a time when a non musky guy came on and ruined it for someone...maybe there have been a few posts/threads that mentioned someones lake x but i wouldn't lose sleep over it...they still have to go there and catch them...and that isn't as easy for some as others ! |
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| Pointer,
Not at all. Unless you know a lake like this it is hard to imagine. Also think about how many things you are not allowed to say in your posts right now and rightly so.
If 90% of members said they do not want lakes under 100 acres to be allowed to be reported on I would think the board would want to accomadate this. How about a private lake you live on by yourself that is accessible by river that holds 55"ers? Right now no one fishes the lake but if revealed your lake will have 3-4 boats on it every day. Think about it if you were the owner of the lake. I dont think you can honestly say that there isn't something wrong with this.
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Location: Contrarian Island | the lakes are there for everyone to use...even if they are "private" with no public access if there is a waterway to get on them...it is fairgame...you are worrying too much about it if you ask me...humans are creatures of habit...sure a few might try to get on your lake x if they hear about it...they go there, get skunked, don't see a fish and go back to fishing the lakes they always fish... |
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| HNR,
I'm from the USA but if you live on a private lake in ontario think about it. Someone from the states does not care if they reveal your lake because they may fish it a few days a year. Same thing happens with hunting spots with people who travel from far away and only come to the area for a few days as opposed to someone who lives there.
I've seen so many yearling bucks shot by out of towners that it is really sad when I lived in a rural area. Samething holds true for fisherman. They are less likely to respect the land and also the fishery. I currently live in a big city and I'm guessing if you are from the city and don't have a true lake X you will be opposed to this idea but if you live in a rural area you'll have a much different perspective. But I do have a lake X up North that no one fishes at all.
Not trying to argue here just want to see what others think |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Ok...Like Slamr said, take Lake Webster...just a few years ago there wasn't anybody out there...now it's a zoo...am I to blame...sure for some of it...but guess what, there are still fish caught everyday...just adapt...
I have other lakes that I fish on that I would like to keep quiet...and some are 3000 acers... I have taken people to these lakes and have had great success...and if other show up...oh well...the fish are still there... I just need to learn how to adapt and catch them.
The problem I see with "Lake X"'s is, people don't want others going out there and catching a bigger fish than they have caught...Most people won't admit it...but this is a big reason why. Musky lakes are always being fished, explored or beat by new people every year. Just remember the musky brain is about the size of a pea...
Go fishing and don't worry about what everybody else is doing.
Oh yeah...Hey Nelson...what are the names of your WI "Lake X"'s.....LOL
Edited by MikeHulbert 4/6/2007 10:59 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | I do live in a city but I fish a bunch of lakes in northern wi that i would consider lake x's...so i think saying people from the city wouldnt agree with you is false...
it's a free country, if someone wants to come on here and babble about this hot lake they found..so be it.. they are only hurting what they uncovered..if you look on the "reports" page you will notice that it is 99% of the lakes that are very very well known...musky fishermen are a secretive bunch for the most part...
bnelson.
HTrain,,,my lake X's are....
Trout
Lake Tom
Kentuck
and North Twin!!!
Edited by MSKY HNR 4/6/2007 11:03 PM
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Posts: 117
| I think i am gonna vent on this sublect and i would like to thank Slamer on his comment on education and not with holding..
I have seensome people who i went on trips with that dont understand the concept of fishing. And be it bass or Muskie fishing some people i know dont take it seriously than all the people on this site. Be it from the person who dont know why he aint catchin fish cause he dont know how to adapt to the species or he's there trying to make an a$$ out of him self and not get any fishing done. Plus patronizing people who concentrate on the water and try there 200% everytime they go out. And even if we wont catch a fish that day- then so be it! As fishermen (of any species) even if you didnt catch anything that day you thank God you living,breathing and fishing enjoying the outdoors (hey...we even enjoy it when we are freezing our a$$es off)
People who are not all the above i will be MORE than happy to share secret spots and "lake X's" with them..
Waho...did i jump over my point? I hope you all understand where i am coming from.. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Not a chance.
First, there are plenty of small lakes out there kept off the radar by most. I have told so many people about some of my favorite water it's crazy, but no rush to the lake occurred.
Second, you are saying a lake will be 'ruined' because it's known. Locals already know it, and don't need this board to educate themselves. If a small lake is talked about here, chances are most won't bother with it, I'm the proof of that several times over. If someone tries it, most everyone here will be CPR.
Third, you are talking as if bait shops, newspapers, magazines, word of mouth, and other forms of communication don't exist. They do.
Fourth, most folks who ask a question here or ask for help or information get exactly that. Don't underestimate the good will of most Muskie anglers.
Fifth, this is not a free speech forum. MuskieFIRST is a publication, and we'll do our best to steer the content the direction our visitors seem to be the most comfortable/happy with reading. We openly share information as a community, and will continue to do so at each person's individual discretion. Don't want to talk about your favorite Lake X? Cool, don't, but respect those who do.
Owner of the lake? if the lake is privately owned, no one can fish there. If not, it's publicly owned by definition.
Sure, I have a half dozen I keep pretty quiet, but only a couple I won't tell ANYONE about. Those are Keith's little gems, and I respect his wishes.
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| If you have a lake X in a state that doesn't have many musky fisherman it would be horrible. Take a 50 Acre lake revealed in Tennesee. Now you've got non musky guys throwing husky jerks at them on there 8lb mono. Think about this in depth.
I know I killed the first musky I caught on accident to to poor CPR. Fished the lake a week later and saw a fish of the same size floating and I was sad, and then I realized I was the one who killed it and I was pretty sick. Its going to happen eventually here on MF that lakes will be revealed in areas that are not known to have muskies. I just don't like that in no circumstance could certain info be pulled off.
I think there should be some limitation to this and I think others may feel the same way. When contributing daily to MF and making this site great we could be supporting a site that will eventually reveal our Lake X and be the downfall of a lake so dear to us. This is something I'm not willing to do. It's just not worth it.
As I said a lake NO ONE FISHES FOR MUSKY! |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | You are on a board where everyone fishes for muskie. I have absolutely no idea how you think we could control what folks want to offer for information. It's simply not possible, and wouldn't work, no matter what.
Our moderation staff has enough to worry about without assigning them the job of being the Lake X police, and EVERYONE'S perception of what Lake X IS could be different.
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| Dre,
This is exactly what I'm afraid of, I think we may agree on this, this is what you said.
"I have seensome people who i went on trips with that dont understand the concept of fishing. And be it bass or Muskie fishing some people i know dont take it seriously than all the people on this site. Be it from the person who dont know why he aint catchin fish cause he dont know how to adapt to the species or he's there trying to make an a$$ out of him self and not get any fishing done"
Will not take long for a 50 acre lake to be hurt substantially with these type of people. I have no ill will towards people who are fishing to enjoy the outdoors but at the end of the day a dead fish is a dead fish. |
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Posts: 574
| And I suppose that people only fish for muskie with 8lb line on lake X.
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What?
So fishermen who have no idea how to look for or catch a Muskie will for absolutely no reason frequent a rabidly specific Muskie board, learn of a tiny Lake X talked about in one of a quarter million posts, rush there totally unequipped and kill 'your' fish 'on accident'?? All due respect, you are WAY overthinking this. |
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| No it happens like this. Lake x gets revealed and now there are 3 MF members on it every weekend. 1 of the 3 members tells Joe the local Gas Station owner he caught a 50". Joe says "Holy crap I didn't even know there were musky in that lake." Joe tells son who fishes bass about this and now Joe's son is out tossing a 8" orange suick bought at wal-mart on his spinning rod.
This is not a fantasy story. This is a true story i've seen on another public lake. Sure the lake was public and it didn't bother me all that much because it was a public lake.
I got incredibly lucky finding my lake X and the lake doesn't get fished for other species either. This is not a usual situation.
I'd say maybe 5% of musky fisherman have a True Lake X that no one else fishes. So this idea may not go over well on this thread. You will eventually lose members though and the quality of posters will demise over time unless you have some sort of secrecy on lakes less than 100 acres. Just my thoughts. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No, we won't. You are obviously concerned about keeping a lake secret, do that. Don't post it here. If someone else does, guess what? It isn't a secret.
MuskieFIRST is not going to be the Lake X Assigned Protectorate. It's an impossible task to determine how big every lake mentioned here might or might not be. Also, it's an open invitation for lots of fights over what Lake X is Who's Lake X, which we do not encourage.
There are other fishing websites out there (LOTS of them) that display a heck of alot less interest in conservation. If you are concerned about this board, you REALLY NEED TO WORRY about those other guys. Suggest this on a Reports style site, and you will get laughed off the forum, literally.
Short answer is no. |
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| basically MF would not substantially lose anything from making a rule which states that lakes less than 100 acres are not allowed to be reported on. On the flip side I know of atleast one true diehard musky fisherm who no longer posts due to this reason alone and the more I think about it the more I think he may be right.
reports on big lakes like vermillion, leach, chip flowage, LOTW and even lakes of 1000 acres are not a huge deal but when you allow really small lakes that are extremely sensative to harvest numbers who are riding the fine line of having a self sustainable population be reported on its not a good thing.
Take 10 mature females out of a 60 acre lake every year and how are things looking for the future of the fishery?
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| Sworral,
Missed your post before I posted mine. This is the only site I post on. Its hands down the best site and I am a big member. I'm not talking about having a lake X debate i'm talking about an objective lake size in which should be immune from any reporting. This would not hurt MF in any way. IMHO
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Unenforceable, and again, not going to happen for that reason first, and a ton of others after. |
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| it sounds like you are the only one fishing your lake x ...so WHY are you worried about it getting posted about here? if you are the only one fishing it then keep your trap shut...problem solved...i agree with others that you are worrying way to much about nothing...
go fish. |
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Posts: 3864
| I keep my Lake X's to myself, except when I take buds like Al, Papa, Lynn, etc. These are always little lakes or certain small stretches of rivers. |
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | member - 4/6/2007 11:50 PM
I'd say maybe 5% of musky fisherman have a True Lake X that no one else fishes. So this idea may not go over well on this thread. You will eventually lose members though and the quality of posters will demise over time unless you have some sort of secrecy on lakes less than 100 acres. Just my thoughts.
So, in order to protect the so-called lake-x of 5% of musky fishermen you want to impose a rule on the other 95%? Seems a bit selfish...I maintain the doomsday scenarios you are referencing (a kid with a Zebco 33 and a Walmart suick) are much more likely to occur from word of mouth locally than from any message board...If you are lucky enough to have musky water that others don't know about, good for you...Keep it secret...Just don't expect MF to enforce your secrecy...That said, have a great season...And just so you know, any message board can trace the IP address of your computer and find out who you are...Some secrets just can't be kept 
matt |
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Posts: 956
Location: Home of the 2016 World Series Champion Cubs | Hey "member", you said it yourself..."joe at the gas station tells his son who fishes bass." Why should we think he's going to switch to muskies????? You said he was a bass fisherman. There are hundreds of thousands perhaps even millions of bass guys. Most of which wouldnt even consider for a second to cast for muskies . Though if he coincidentally WAS interrested in muskies he can learn about lake x on this web site in addition to Conservation, Catch and Release, proper fish handling etc etc etc. You must remeber this site and others do many great things that benefit all that is muskies. A new muskie angler....great. Consider him/her a new resource as well. Perhaps he/she will some day be stocking fish and caring for the fish/ecology etc as a result. Maybe even in your beloved lake-X. If you keep fishng and hunting to youself I assume your children/grandchildren will never experience lake x either. thats the attitude that will be the demise of all husting /fishing sports. There needs to be growth.
Karl
Edited by KARLOUTDOORS 4/7/2007 9:35 AM
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| No problem here. Just wanted to bring the idea up. I thought some may feel the same way. I am probably too overprotective, but like I said i'm referring to very small lakes. This is a small lake on a national forest that you need to hike into with a kayak to fish. Tuff to CPR. In all honesty I am more concerned about these small lakes in general than mine in particular, especially small ontario lakes. And yes I do care more about the future of a fishery than people's temporary enjoyment of the resource. I think my type of thinking in this manner may be wrong but it is how I feel nonetheless. Not looking to debate this, it's just a gut reaction I will always have.
I know of another 150 acre lake X that very few people fish for musky, but thus far it has stayed low on the radar. Not as much worried about this lake because it's already known by a few but I still don't tell a soul.
I don't know the moderators personally, no big deal if I did. I thought this may be controversial so in a google world I figured it would be better to not sign in.
goodluck. |
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| Karl,
I probably don't come across right in my posts but I meant to say that it's not someones fault for killing a fish if they don't realize it's going to happen. It just happens eventually.
I was the bass guy at one time who leaned there were muskies in a lake by my house and didn't use the right gear and I killed fish on accident and the fishery is worse off because of me.
Even the best CPR guys will eventually have fish die on them
I'll leave this post to rest
goodluck |
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Posts: 724
Location: Southern W.Va. | If we refer to it as "Lake X", you can be sure that we are trying to keep the lake to ourselfs.
I live in W.Va. and along with Mikie, take a trip to the north country trying to find more and bigger fish. We "discovered" a "Lake X" in Wisc. that , under a threat of death, we promised not to tell anyone what lake it is. We get to fish this lake 1 or 2 days a year as it's about a 17 hour drive for use to fish it. The lake is small(under 300 acres) and there is no use asking me what lake it is. I'll fish it again this year and I've only seen 1 other boat this lake since we started fishing it 3 years ago. Hooked 1 of the 2 strongest fish I've ever hooked in this lake, never saw it but like Ahab , this is where my Moby Dick lives.
Won't ask and won't tell,
Mauser |
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| There are Lake X locations everywhere, some close to home and some you might try once a year. There are even more River X locations that few people ever try. It is best to keep secret lakes and secret spots to yourself, or they won't stay secret for very long. I think it is even more important not to give up specific spots, which happens more and more these days on television and the internet |
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Posts: 117
| member - 4/6/2007 11:15 PM
If you have a lake X in a state that doesn't have many musky fisherman it would be horrible. Take a 50 Acre lake revealed in Tennesee. Now you've got non musky guys throwing husky jerks at them on there 8lb mono. Think about this in depth.
I know I killed the first musky I caught on accident to to poor CPR. Fished the lake a week later and saw a fish of the same size floating and I was sad, and then I realized I was the one who killed it and I was pretty sick. Its going to happen eventually here on MF that lakes will be revealed in areas that are not known to have muskies. I just don't like that in no circumstance could certain info be pulled off.
I think there should be some limitation to this and I think others may feel the same way. When contributing daily to MF and making this site great we could be supporting a site that will eventually reveal our Lake X and be the downfall of a lake so dear to us. This is something I'm not willing to do. It's just not worth it.
As I said a lake NO ONE FISHES FOR MUSKY!
This is a AWESOME point.. i would hte to see thast too...done that to a ton of bass due to my mistake |
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| There is huge difference between someone letting the cat out of the bag and moderators allowing a post that names a lake on the internet off the pirated GPS coorinates from a fricken TV show. Come on where in the world are your ethics. Also I seem to remember pics on this very site of boats galore on that lake this fall with ice forming. You can't justify that and you know it. |
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| pirated GPS coorinates from a fricken TV show. Come on where in the world are your ethics. Also I seem to remember pics on this very site of boats galore on that lake this fall with ice forming. You can't justify that and you know it.
ethics? what's the ethical dilemma?
it's dumb to rehash that old issue, i never should have brought it up in the first place...too many lurkers waiting to scream and rant about other people's "ethics". funny.
notably, i'm happy to discuss my ethics with my name signed to the bottom of every post - are you? log-in, click my screen name and you get access to my email. feel free to use it.
it's a well-known muskie lake in a huge urban area. if you've lived in the area like i have you could recognize it from the shoreline/cars without the gps data anyway. people are definitely not driving hundreds of miles to fish that lake, so the info is relevant mostly to locals who don't need the gps data to recognize the lake in the first place. plus the information is spread among a niche' group of fishermen who almost exclusively practice CPR.
boats galore? i seem to recall a couple pictures this year of a couple boats fishing during the day who i think might have caught a fish which was definitely released. possibly the same lake, but not anything unusual pressure-wise for that time of year. hardly hordes of pillaging muskie killers out there wrecking the lake.
let's keep reality a part of the conversation, ok?
people really do get wrapped around the axle on this stuff, don't they?
this isn't an issue of ethics, it's an issue of fear. people are afraid that someone else is going to show up and ruin their favorite fishing hole by fishing on it. when people act/talk/post out of fear, they tend to generalize and exaggerate in "doomsday" manners. in my opinion, it's an irrational fear. i'm not saying it's not a real feeling, just that the fear isn't based on the objective truth of what happens when a lake gets "outed". the truth of things is usually that little or nothing will change and if it does the impact is significantly less than feared.
easy availability of information, high mobility, and increased savvy are reality for the modern serious muskie fisherman.
so are safe fish handling habits, catch and release, and a dedication to improving the resource.
as Mike Hulbert said: adapt!
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | Very nicely said!!!
matt |
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Posts: 502
Location: Lincoln UK | Guest has it spot on, far too many instant esox anglers without telling them exactly where to go, jeez it will be handing rods to people next with a hooked fish on it.
Esox thrive on neglect not pressure and if someone puts in the work to find the fish for themselves then thats fair enough, hordes descending on a small water will screw the fishery totally. Sure you almost don't mind when it's a water that seems to have nothing to do with you but when it's your water and it's hammered to death it might just hit home.
Naming waters is very much frowned on over here, we have small waters and we have learned the hard waywaters get ruined very quickly. The post was bad enough but to condone it shows a definite lack of understanding. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Well Chico, here we share information. From your description, I'm glad I live in Wisconsin. Pirated GPS coordinates? How are the pirated? What a total crock. Get over it, or better yet, if you don't like any of 'your personal information' on Muskie websites, stay off the computer.
The entire premise of this argument has absolutely no merit. Get over it, we are NOT going to become Lake X Police. End of story. |
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Posts: 52
| Not sure but most fish have a propensity to move throughout the year or feed heavily at times and move to that food so how is a honey hole going to be usurped that much by someone?
I've had a few articles published about one or two grand days and you know what? I have never even seen anyone in that place at the sametime ever. This is was also a small body of water. |
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| So did [he] name the lake at the beginning of the show, in the middle or at the end? I have the tape BTW. It was discussed and decided to name the lake on posts on this site because someone enhanced the GPS readings and your moderators chose to leave it up after it was posted. That isn't being the Lake X police THAT'S BEING UNETHICAL and IRRESPONSIBLE. You could have cost [him] his credibilty very easily. If it had been a Saric show never would have happened and you know it Steve. You might also want to fill Lambaeu in what can happen when lakes get outed (even huge lakes) There are guys on this board that don't know what can happen. You do. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If the GPS readings were readable, and the people shooting the video left it that way, it's their issue, not ours. Maybe the shoot shouldn't have occurred there if the place was such a tremendous secret, and you should block any future video, photos, or other mention of that water. Put up a 'no trespassing' sign next time, or complain to them.
I don't know which post you are referring to. What's more, i don't care. Lakes being 'outed'? If there are muskies there it'll be out eventually anyway.
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| You might also want to fill Lambeau in what can happen when lakes get outed (even huge lakes) There are guys on this board that don't know what can happen. You do.
what...Wabigoon?
funny thing is, i know one of the guys who helped scout that lake with Joe Bucher before he started bringing guide clients up. Joe paid all their expenses for 2 weeks, divided the lake into sections and sent each boat to a different area each day to find fish. they came back with fish from all over.
let me say that again: they came back _with fish_ from all over. i've seen the pictures of rows of muskies laid out on the grass with everyone smiling. as in dead fish. kept fish. no longer contributing to the population by reproducing fish.
the days of lakes being raped in this way are essentially over because the vast majority of fish are being released. take a look at Mille Lacs - incredible pressure on the trophy fish out there, probably beyond what any lake has sustained in history. and yet, it continues to produce. how could that possibly be with so many fishermen out there catching so many fish? 25 plus 50"ers in many single guide boats in just one season? thousands of anglers catching fish? say it with me: catch and release. sure, some fish are kept by the under-informed or under-caring, but it's a different era with a different ethic now and it's proven with different results.
mind you, i'm not saying people should put this information out there, especially about those small gem waters that they want to keep quiet. i'm just saying it's not the end of the world like the harbingers of doom make it out to be.
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| I think in totality the more people that know about an area the better. For instance, if Lake X is only fished by one secretive musky fisherman, the local area is only affected by his money he spends on gas, food, bait, lures, etc. However, if the knowledge is shared, and because musky fisherman are very responsible and willing to spend money, the local area for Lake X will benefit tremendously. More cash will be poured into the local economy, which is important. It may even leave the door open for stocking in neighboring lakes or into Lake X to help with a new revenue stream and the possibility for clubs, tournments, etc. The addition of these are a win/win in my book This is the perfect example of glass half empty/full scenario. Just my opinion. |
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| Kid,
"Not sure but most fish have a propensity to move throughout the year or feed heavily at times and move to that food so how is a honey hole going to be usurped that much by someone"
I'm talking about a lake with natural reproduction that you can cover in a day. Like I said i'm talking about lakes less than 100 acres.
Yogurt,
"I think in totality the more people that know about an area the better. For instance, if Lake X is only fished by one secretive musky fisherman, the local area is only affected by his money he spends on gas, food, bait, lures, etc. However, if the knowledge is shared, and because musky fisherman are very responsible and willing to spend money, the local area for Lake X will benefit tremendously. More cash will be poured into the local economy, which is important. It may even leave the door open for stocking in neighboring lakes or into Lake X to help with a new revenue stream and the possibility for clubs, tournments, etc. The addition of these are a win/win in my book This is the perfect example of glass half empty/full scenario. Just my opinion."
Yogurt, no disrespect i'm sure you are a great guy but this is basically the problem with the boards. I think you are right and that it would help the economy a lot, look at Vermillion. How much money does musky fishing bring that Tower?
The problem is some people enjoy musky fishing but are not consumed by it, maybe they'll make a trip or two a year which is fine. There's tons of people out there who only fish musky occasionally but read the boards. Diehard posters here you are in the minority. Most Musky fisherman as a whole do not think anything like you.
So essentially who do you think has a better idea as to what should be posted and what shouldn't be, the weekend golfer or Tiger Woods? I'm not saying we have any more right to fish a lake or should have any more rights for anything at all, but it's just not right that a person who puts more priority on the well being of economy of the lake being fished as opposed to the fisheryitself is a problem. A person who fishes a 100 acre lake once a year can expose it. Is this their right to do; sure, but I would think that this would be looked down upon and not allowd. Especially when the survival of the species itself depends on natural reproduction. Don't think it would be a big deal to set limit on the lake size to be posted.
Anyways no big deal either way, is a lot of this hypothetical; yes. But i'd think setting a minimum lake size for posting could not hurt in any way. Also like I said when it comes to the maintanence of message boards I am the weekend golfer i'll leave it up the experts to decide. They do know much more.
Tight lines. I'll let it rest. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sorry, but IMHO you are again VERY far off the track here.
I submit the vast majority of the folks visiting here think very much alike. Most are conservation minded, and don't need or anyone to decide FOR them what information to which they should or should not have access. That sort of closed minded approach goes strongly against the grain here, and plain isn't going to happen. |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | WOW, looking through this I can see both sides. The lakes in my area get pounded and it's no secret whats in these lakes. I guess I am a very bad person because I like to promote these lakes and welcome anyone to fish here. I believe the more presure a lake gets the more money for everyone around the lakes. Bait shops, Bars, gas stations, hotels, restrants and even guides.
This is a catch and release sport by almost all muskie fishermen. I don't understand why some get so pissed off at others who post reports. Look at some of the IN lakes. Its so well known about the 7 muskies per acre and the lakes are small and pounded. Still they are full of fishermen and lots of fish are caught. Lots of money is being spent all around the lakes by fishermen. So why is Vince getting crap for his reports and Mike is doing all kinds of seminars and articals. Both are promoting their lakes big time. Don't see a problem with that. You still got to beable to catch the fish when you on the water.
One thing I noticed with increased presure on my local lakes is you have to be able to addapt to the changing conditions. One example is when the 4th of July comes and the crowds of people all are on the lake for a few days the fish start to leave the weeds and roam the flats. You can't believe all the boats that come from everywhere. Weeds floating everywhere from all the props chewing up the weeds. Time to target deeper weeds or troll.
Small lakes can get hurt by the internet some but the larger lakes can handle it. Take Millie Lac's for example like Mike posted earler. That pond just keeps getting better and Vermillion is getting pounded also.
I am all for helping other fishermen in anyway I can. Heck, everyone is releasing the fish anyway. With the exception of the very small unknown lakes I can't see posting reports as bad. I know a ton of great lakes I could hit now but I can't work them into my schedule. Webster was rocking when I went to Kinkaid. I just wanted to try Kinkaid, then Shelbyville. Great trip. |
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Posts: 574
| I don't know about most people here, but if I heard something about a 95 acre lake. I wouldn't waste my time. Why would I want to drive 5 hours to get somewhere when I can fish the whole lake in 2 hours? |
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| here is what a lake x to me is...a lake that gets very little pressure right now, and has zero stocking...can this lake handle increased pressure and some people taking fish out...no!
now a Webster that gets stocked at what, 6 fish per acre is never going to be a lake x...even in the early 00s i was out there fishing it too...but c'mon..that is no lake x...but in northern wi and maybe some waters of canada, and mn, where there are some lakes that have little or no public access, and no stocking..those lakes in my opinion are the kind that guys fishing them should try to keep quiet...it only takes one guy to go out there and keep a bunch of big muskies to mess up a lake...but is it M1sts job to police posts with such lakes named..no, that is up to the users to respect and realize those lakes can be hurt very easily...
a lot of us have some lake x's and maybe some snicker and smirk at us for it...but it is part of the fun of chasing these fish to "think" we have a lake that is some sort of gem to us...just part of the fun of this sport...
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | bn, exactly. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | There is a <100 acre lake in Tennessee that has giant muskies in it? I'm starting a fan bus to drive everyone from WI, Ill, IN, KY and anyone who can drive down from MN to meet in Central WI just so we can all go fish this new gem. Come on, be real member no one is going to just drop what they are doing and fish this lake to death. Plus if, and I mean IF this lake x was discovered and people flocked to it, as long as CPR is practiced the majority of the time the lake will not suffer much, you just might have to work a bit harder for a fish.
If there was no CPR then there would be a reason to gripe. A little lake by my dad's lodge was discovered by two locals who came and fished out the entire walleye population. Gone. Why? There was a decent market for walleyes at the time, but when they got them to town no one wanted to buy them. The majority were wasted. Is this going to happen to your lake x? Doubt it. No need for such worry. |
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Posts: 52
| Member,
Not sure by what you mean by several things. Most of the guys here are about the same in their overall perspective on things. You know they do make maps of everything right now, they have images of ice on the Great Lakes if you want them and just about everything else so what is that private or secret anymore.
I can see one of your points and really this is all left up to the individual person to make a decision one way or the other. There's truly some shysters around who might take advanatage of a situation like this. I gave telling and informing people past "get a map" anymore and no more photos whatsoever on forums. That's not because I am hiding the fish but I certainly did not like the situation when it appeared on a website with someone else's name on it either.
Maybe the right word is not "rights" then but a sense of responsibility we acquire for appreciating what the natural world has been to us and then acting in the same for it, our gift of selflessness to it. (Did I spell that right?)
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | if some one mentions your lake z maybe pm them and tell them what you think and maybe they will listen. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I haven't taken the time to read all the replies to this topic, so what I am going to say may have already been said. For one thing, I don't think too many people get on forums like this and brag about 300 acre honey holes. Also, why does a lake have to be small to be a lake X? There might be no correlation here, but why wouldn't Mille lacs be a lake X? If people had kept it a secret when they first started to figure out the musky fishing was awesome, people wouldn't be lining up to fish a weedline. Word got out, and from what I hear it gets POUNDED. Should any discussion of Mille Lacs been prohibited on online forums?
curleytail |
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Posts: 52
| What is still incredibly odd about this Minnesota hysteria is that the celebrities who were largely responsible for it continued right along with it and judged Wisconsin has being a state without big fish, when in fact they were fishing over Wisconsin-source fish to begin with. We do thank them for all of it as well. Word always seems to get out in the age of information we are in now. Too bad in other ways, but nothing will be that private or secluded anymore. If someone said Mill Lacs I'd still need a map and directions until I got a handle on the lake. That's like saying there is big pike in Lake Superior, which there are, and well go and find one of them then. Good luck. Where exactly, well, get a map.
I'm really not reading any exact locations or just how or what this GPS thing is about either. Who needs it when you have maps and locators that do everything but a poka? |
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Posts: 3864
| Behaviors, i.e., "to share or not to share info on Lake X" are based on values, i.e., "I feel a duty to protect fragile lakes".
You can't legislate values on others. Discussion, debate, and maybe even conflict are healthy as long as folks get to go back to their corners and do what they want within the law. Wanna talk about little Lake X, go right ahead. Gonna not talk about Lake Y, go right ahead with that one, too.
I lived on a 80 acre lake when a guy speared 5 pike between 40" and 44" in a single weekend. I was mad as hell, but he was within the law. I tracked the guy down (found he worked at a local marina) and explained how we need big robust females to restock the lake, passing on the desirable genetics, and about so-many-fish-per-acre ideas. I shared my best techniques to catch nice pike from spring to late fall. I emphasized that all the nice pike I boated were released. I was polite and respectful. I didn't tell him it was his ethical duty to do diddly. He listened and we parted ways.
You can't legislate values on others. At best, you can try to educate them and hope they see things from your point of view. |
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Posts: 117
| Ranger - 4/8/2007 6:20 AM
Behaviors, i.e., "to share or not to share info on Lake X" are based on values, i.e., "I feel a duty to protect fragile lakes".
You can't legislate values on others. Discussion, debate, and maybe even conflict are healthy as long as folks get to go back to their corners and do what they want within the law. Wanna talk about little Lake X, go right ahead. Gonna not talk about Lake Y, go right ahead with that one, too.
I lived on a 80 acre lake when a guy speared 5 pike between 40" and 44" in a single weekend. I was mad as hell, but he was within the law. I tracked the guy down (found he worked at a local marina) and explained how we need big robust females to restock the lake, passing on the desirable genetics, and about so-many-fish-per-acre ideas. I shared my best techniques to catch nice pike from spring to late fall. I emphasized that all the nice pike I boated were released. I was polite and respectful. I didn't tell him it was his ethical duty to do diddly. He listened and we parted ways.
You can't legislate values on others. At best, you can try to educate them and hope they see things from your point of view.
Nicely said...good POV. |
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Posts: 3864
| Aw shucks. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Ranger, good post. |
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Posts: 956
Location: Home of the 2016 World Series Champion Cubs | Member,
Agreed, as the saying goes "mortality" happens. BUT since you caught that first muskie and have become a muskie angler I would guess that you have begun to educate yourself and have likely contributed in more than one positive way to the fishery as a whole which benefits not on the muskie but the bass as well. WIN-WIN the way I see it. Merely debate I understand. Good luck this season.
Karl |
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Posts: 8777
| I think the lesson to be learned here is a very simple one:
This is a public forum. Information you post here is viewable by anyone who finds their way to the site, be they die hard catch and release musky elitist, or be they of the kill it and grill it mentality. EVERYONE who fishes, dreams of a secret little lake tht nobody fishes with lots of big unconditioned fish.
What it comes down to is this:
If you are one of the lucky people that knows of such a place? It would probably not be in your best interest to disclose its location in a public forum dedicated to muskie fishing.
Lots of us have been burned by people we thought we could trust, its a lesson you learn the first time.
Would I be upset of someone posted a bunch of information on my "Lake X"? I'd by lying if I said no, but unless I own the lake myself I hve no more right to it than anyone else.
Would I expect Muskiefirst to pull posts containing lake sensitive information? Of course not, this site is about SHARING information. I would hope, however, that people with information to share might think about the possiblility that that information will probably be viewed by people who I might not be glad to see on the water. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | My question is how would you go about regulating this (obviously it wont happen, but how would you if you could?). Are you implying that if a new lake name gets dropped on the boards that the moderators need to go look up the lake name, find out the size and if it falls under the small lake size limit they delete the post? Do you want a 'rule' that says you cant post a small lake name? Whose to say the people wont ignore that rule....if you dont think they will take a look at the recycle bin and see how many posts get tossed down there because they dont 'fit' the posting criteria of the site. There is no way to stop a person from posting a small lake x. |
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Posts: 221
Location: ohio | hmm, when i looked at the lax big fish gallery, there are tons of fish caught at lake X,
WHERE IS LAKE X !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
j/k i dont mind sharing info as long as i get info in return. So far i have NO complaints about anyone on this site, everyone has been helpfull with any problems i have had so far. |
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Posts: 350
Location: WESTERN WI | BEST ADVICE: I have a Lake X hidden in the wilderness, far from much of anything or anyone. A few know of it I am sure, thats ok, they deserve their slice of heaven too. But as a preventative measure, I simply do not tell anyone. Guess what, for 15 years it is still under wraps. So shutting up about a really good thing is your advice. |
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Posts: 221
Location: ohio | thats even better advise, If you dont want anyone to know about it, Shut Up. people's mouths can be their own worst enemies.What kind of site would this be if I asked someone who lives near a certain lake whats the best times, baits, ect. ect. and they told me to pound salt ? I dont live near WI,MN or canada, i make a trip maybe once a year to those area's and what better way to find out what to use and take then to ask people who know the lake and fish it. I WOULD return the favor if someone from another state ask me about the lakes I fish. I Would rather see someone from somewhere else who KNOWS how to handle a muskie correctly, catch a fish and release it properly. then even my own fishing partner catch a 50 incher and kill it due to mishandling. I understand "honey holes" also. I used to have a few but with more and more pressure my holes became public fishing lakes...I dont own them so what can I do ? |
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Posts: 232
Location: Sun Prairie, WI |
Going back to the original post:
Lakes are for fishing, there is no such thing as "I am the ONLY one that knows"
Fishing is to be enjoyed, if you caught fish EVERY time you went, it would not be called fishing, it would be "catching".
If a person is so paranoid about a LakeX, it is obvious you would have to fish alone most of the time, and if you had a guest you would drive them nuts with your continous asking of them to not tell anyone. You would NOT be a good fishing partner!
Relax, take a deep breath, exhale, and live life as it is meant to be. We all get caught up in or quest for muskie, but to become emotionally disturbed is way beyond the realm of why we fish.
It's a sport and should be relaxing and enjoyable, along with frustrating and humbling, that is how it is meant to be.
I don't post often, but after reading this entire post I just had to comment.
I fish for the pleasure and enjoyment of the chase and as a test of my and others knowledge.
Edited by ESOXER 4/11/2007 4:09 AM
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Lake X