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Posts: 167
Location: Minnesota | Would somebody please be willing to enlighten me as to what is ROI in pre ROI depth raider and what is the difference in the depth raiders?
thanks
Dan |
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Posts: 256
Location: Janesville | There is know Differance. some before ROI did not have a rattle. Other then that they are the same. |
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | Look at this thread: http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=32... |
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Posts: 167
Location: Minnesota | Thanks for the info..
Dan |
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| Good morning Dan, I would like to answer your question on the depth raider. I am part owner of Roberts Outdoors. When we took over the company about 4 years ago we agreed with Bucher that we would not change anything with the baits unless he thought we needed to. Right now we are using his same molds, same material and same molder that he has had for over 15 years. We even continue to have the bulk of our product painted in
Pennslvania which cost us more because of the shipping. We did discontinue the non rattle series because they just were'nt selling as good as the rattles. I did let Rollies order the non rattling version for their store. We also went from 3/0 to 2/0 hook size because we were getting complants that the 3/0 were getting fouled up, we only made that move after talking to Joe first. The only real difference in our lures is the packaging. If you would like to contact me direct please email me at [email protected] |
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Posts: 2308
Location: SE, WI. | Mr. Tilky; Don't you find it interesting the slightest bit that not only 1 fisherman but many have noticed a decline in the catch ratio between the older models and the newer made raiders??? I for one fish about 4 to 5 evenings a week and have spent countless hours with the baits, and have boated hundreds of musky with raiders! But when I troll them, older and newer ones at the same time, the older ones seem to shine...HANDS DOWN!!! I am not saying I don't catch fish on the newer baits, but I definately have more success with the older baits. If you are to hold up the newer bait, and a older bait and shake the rattle, or wiggle the back end of the jointed baits, At least for me the sound of the older molded is more brisk, or louder than the new duller sound of the newer raiders. It seems like the plastic is a softer material. Some of the real early made baits were of a different, more brittel plastic, especially the chrome models. I believe this harder plastic shines for catch ratio over the newer soft plastic, But, who am I to doubt your word on the plastic material. All I know is the results of my catch ratio. Maybe you should look into a more harder plastic material as an option. Do you want fisherman to continue to be happy with your product? How about a little experimenting with a harder plastic? You need a field tester??? Oh, by the way. I had a depthraider start to pull apart at the joint. I sent it back and asked for a new bait. Your quality control people sent it back to me and said they could not detect the obvious!!! Is'nt the customer always right??? Whenever, I had a problem with a bait...PRE Roberts...They sent me a new one...No Problem!!! |
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| Thanks for your feedback. I will call Bucher & the molder today. I am going to foward your thread to them so they know what I am talking about. If we need to change the plastic we will. But I was told when we bought the company and contacted our vendors that nothing was suppose to change in regards to materials being used to make our baits. I know Joe would not let this happen. He is involved with all production of old & new lure quality. I'll keep you posted |
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Posts: 35
| Just got a hold of the molder, He states the following. Tilky, we have been using the same Eastman Chemical for the last 17 years that I have been associated with Joe Bucher. We did have a period about 12 years ago that we ran a different material. In this 2 year time period we produced around 8000 baits. This material is made by BASF, it made the bait look better and it was lighter. During the 2 year run of this material Bucher informed me that they were having abnormal breaking and chipping problems with this new material so we switched back to Eastman and have been running that material ever since.
I hope this clears things up. We(ROI) bought the company about 4 years ago. We are only following what Joe has put in place for us. If you would like to contact me direct email me at [email protected] |
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | Tilky,
I appreiciate you taking the time to answer these questions...they come up all the time...I also know several people who are convinced the older ones are better...Enough folks believe it to the extent that there is a secondary market dedicated to "Pre-Roberts" depthtaiders...Another thing that I have heard is that the paint colors and patterns are "better" on the old ones...One specific pattern being the firetiger...Anyway thanks for shedding some light on this issue. |
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Posts: 209
| We have 121 Dr's that we use (photo), another 57 that are in my collection, and most of them are Pre-ROI.
I can't begin to tell you how many different weights and rattle combinations there are.
The bottom line for us seems to be when trolling the same color and length of line the lightest ones (that also have the loudest rattle) catch the most fish. It's not even close...... 4 or 5 to 1.
Just my experience & opinion.
Jeff
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Posts: 35
| Before we bought the company Bucher had an agreement with a company called DMG, they were out of Chicago and they did bankrupt the company. They used who ever they could get the best deal for painting the lures. That is why you may see a difference on the firetiger pattern. They even dropped the clear coating process to save money. Since we took it over we are with Joe's original painters in Pennslyvania. So you will see a consistant paint job once again. There still are some of the DMG paint jobs still out there. Hope this clears that up. Once again if you guys see a problem get a hold of me direct. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I have used the Depth Raiders both before ROI and as well as after ROI has been involved. I have not noticed any difference in a "catch ratio" with my new ones vs. old ones. Actually my best producing Depth Raiders are from about 2 years ago, which ROI produced.
I think we all get this "confidence" thing in our heads. Just like the Hughes River....everybody want Pre-2001's....I have some from a year ago that ROCK.
There is nothing wrong with the new Depth Raiders, I love 'em and will continue to use them and catch fish on them. |
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Posts: 35
| Jeff, your a catching up to our factory inventory with all those lures. Let me do some checking on the rattles. As soon as Bucher calls me I'll post another explanation for you guys. Once again I have no knowlegde of us changing the weights & rattles. |
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| I have a "money" countdown I have been searching for a duplicate since 2001. I thought the same things everyone mentioned above.
"Money" finally just died and I decided to cut in half along with a new one to see the difference. Nothing I could see......
I Have the same beliefs as Trollindad. His are all when Bucher had the line and even he has quite a few differences between them. They are supposed to be able to replicate baits exactly with plastic, but I think there are still some differences. It's way more consistant than wood, but still some minor differences.
I recommend just keep searching for the "Money" one. When you get some teeth marks and some slime on one you will have what you have been looking for.
Jason |
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | Jeff,
Wow...thats quite a collection...i wondered if you would weigh in on this...Sounds like in the past there may have been quite a few variations in the manufacturing process/materials that lead to some runs of baits being better than others...Could be with time the process has become more consistent doing away with these variations...It would be interesting if Roberts could analyze one of your top producers to see how it differs from the standard bait of today...My guess is it would be awfully hard to give one of those baits up  ........I think the size of your collection along with your hours on the water and the success you have had trolling DRs, that there must be something to the "difference discussion"...After hearing what Tilky has reorted, I would seem that the differences may be due to unintended production run variations...Maybe even changes in manufacturing line/supervisory personnel, mold variations, etc....Very intersting stuff...Good luck to you in the upcoming season...Take care...
matt
Edited by muskyme 2/13/2007 10:17 AM
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Every bait is going to be different in the slightest ways....
I love throwing dawgs, and I have some that work MONEY, not that the other suck, but I have some that really flutter around when I rip them....does that mean there is something wrong....No, it just means that I have one that is different. The others still work.
I have a lot of wooden gliders. Some are MONEY and others work. Again, that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them.
Every bait out there that is made has some degree of difference to them. |
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Posts: 2308
Location: SE, WI. | <p>Mr. Tilky; Thank you for the research on the older model raiders. I was glad to hear that there was a different plastic used at one point. That will bring some closer to the people who seem to think we've lost it as far as sound and catch ratio. Obviously Mr. Trollindad and myself have very similar if not exact findings with our catch ratio. I've fished bass tourneys for years and used alot of rattle traps...Some definately shined over others. Sound is Huge when it comes to triggering strikes. Let me pose another Question to you...Mr Tilky, If enough Musky first members were interested in purchasing a lot of depthraiders in the BASF plastic...Could you run a batch? I have a feeling alot of guys MIGHT step up. Thank's for your findings!</p> |
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Posts: 35
| Let me see how much material we would have to buy to run a batch of the basf, I'll get back to you |
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Posts: 35
| Guys just wanted to let you know that Roberts Outdoors is coming out with the BIG FOOT series of raiders. We will introduce this spring a 12 inch Depth Raider & 12 inch Shallow Raider. |
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Posts: 2378
| tilky - 2/14/2007 8:26 AM
Guys just wanted to let you know that Roberts Outdoors is coming out with the BIG FOOT series of raiders. We will introduce this spring a 12 inch Depth Raider & 12 inch Shallow Raider.
Awesome! |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | Dude, that is sweet!!!!
Also, thanks for the insight Tilky. It's good to see people that still stand behind their products. Keep those puppies coming. Apparently JD and Trollindad are taking all the inventory. |
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Posts: 35
| JD, just got word from our molder making a batch of the BASF. Not good. He told me minium of 500 lures for him to buy the material. But he said he may have some bodies in the back whse and he will ship them to me. If I get them I will let you know. On the ratlles in our baits he told me that he has not changed them. I'm sorry I don't have any idea why they would sound different. Good luck fishing. |
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| Lets take my time travel machine, set it for 1997 and lets make some some "pre ROI" BigFoots.
that is how ridiculous this thread it..
people collect lures...fact of life..one of the biggest/most popular criteria for lure collecting is 1. age of lure 2. is it from the original batch/run, the old way..
this is more a confidence and lure collecting post..not "how good are the new ones vs the old ones".
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | If 41 guys are willing to buy a dozen lures each ... it's a done deal.
OR
82 guys ordering one-half (6) dozen lures each.
I'm good for one dozen (12) of a new batch of BASF-based Depth Raiders.
Let's jump on the bandwagon guys! Who can't use a half-dozen Depth Raiders???
Craig
P.S. My own preferred pattern of DR for home waters are the Miller Perch.
Edited by cjrich 2/15/2007 10:18 AM
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Posts: 284
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There is absolutely a difference in the sound, feel, and how the fish react toward old DRs compared to the new ones.
Those that say there isn't a difference have not put in the time on the water researching this.
I know trollindad has ... probably the most detailed guy I know, not to mention one of the best trollers I have ever seen.
I know that he and his kids have spent countless hours on the water with both old and new DRs in the water. He tried to keep everything even to give both baits a fair shake.
His catch ratios don't lie. There is a difference, and it's not a slight difference.
I love Bucher products ... this is not bashing ROI or anything like that ... it is just a simply fact. Something has changed. No doubt in my mind. |
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Posts: 2308
Location: SE, WI. | Atboy Craig. Maybe you and I should just buy the whole lot and split them ourselves. Put me down for 20.BASF, harder plastic. Dunlap, if people want to not believe us, thats ok. More success for us....JD |
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Posts: 167
Location: Minnesota | I would be in on half dozen or so depth raiders since it sounds like this BASF stuff is the way to go.
Dan
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Posts: 209
| 150+ is not enough
If they do this (I doubt they will - it would open up a whole can of worms....) I would buy 18
6 Firetiger & 6 Shimmy Shad
& how about the late 90's R & H color SUNSET (Orange tiger)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would need 6 of those
Edited by Trollindad 2/15/2007 8:59 PM
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | I too would buy a dozen...straight body...Firetiger and shimmerin' shad sounds good to me also...
matt |
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Posts: 121
| When will the Bigfoot series of Raiders be available???? |
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | tilky (Jeff),
There seems to be a significant response to funding a custom run. Is this something that is possible?
Seems to me (though) that this would really open a can of worms for ROI.
Craig
Edited by cjrich 2/15/2007 8:26 PM
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Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | Count me in for 12 D-Raiders
Straight and Jointed
Nite Shiner---Shimmerin Shad
3-each,color/body style |
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Posts: 814
| I would also be interested in 12 d-raiders!!! Can you do these in Chrome? |
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Posts: 35
| OH BOY, the monster I created. No promises, I'll see what I can do. but painting all of these different colors can't happen. I could get blanks at the best. But I need to have only one ship to and one bill to. We can't handle all of this internaly. |
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | Blanks also sound good...There are quite a few folks on this board who could paint them |
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Location: Iowa | How much would 12 blanks cost...6 blanks...I would be interested in the blanks with hooks if it is not too much...
Big Perc |
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Posts: 140
| I'd take a dozen as well. |
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | Blanks are fine by me. I'll have Mike at MRG work some of his magic with some of his great patterns. He has custom painted many Depth Raiders in the past.
Craig |
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Posts: 209
| This post is going to get way out there...... so those that think there is no difference don't read any further
Tilky, I agree with you 100% on the "problems" with the BASF DR's but I feel there is a worthwhile trade off.
My best ones are brittle, the paint does chip off differently than the others. The one lip I had break was one of my best ones (photo), but she caught 32 fish before she gave in. I bounced bottom for 4 years with that bait and did not mind putting it on the shelf. The lips on the older brittle ones actually turn a light yellow and lose there clarity (looks like a dirty ice cube to me).
One thing to keep in mind is if we are able to get blanks is how to paint them. I have had some of the painters that frequent this board re-paint some of my old ones. All were artists with there patterns, the difference was the clear coat. The secret to the bait is to keep them light. Some were painted with thin brittle layers (and a thin brittle hard clear coat) and have the tendency to chip easily. Some were ENCASED in e-tex like a HR glider. BY FAR, the thin coated baits out produced the e-tex'd baits. I would hope if we can get blanks the paint would adhere better than a non-stripped re-paint.
The main reason I feel this won't happen are the inherent problems with the BASF body. ROI will have people complaing for years about broken lips, chipping paint, ect..... that didn't know what they were getting or picked it up off a secondary marketplace (e-bay).
The new baits (softer plastic), the lip actually wears down when grinding rocks and the hooks create a hook groove that quickly can eat it's way to the body cavity when trolled.
The BASF baits (harder plastic) the lip does not wear down, it actually will get a million small hairline cracks in it causing it to become opaque until it finally breaks. The hooks do not wear a groove, but actaully seem to sand away at the bait over time.
Once again, this is only my experience and opinion. But judging from the pm's & e-mails I have been getting on the subject there are many others that agree. I just wish they would post here!!!!!!!
Tilky - I would love to get my hands on that BASF blank to compare it with a few of my Dr's.
T'dad
PS Please don't turn this into a thread about what happens if the lip breaks off completely along with the line tie (not through wired) leaving the next world record to die with a bait stuck in it's mouth. I have had that 1 bait break, and it was just the tip of the lip. I have seen threads take left turns like that before...
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Posts: 494
Location: midwest | I would be in for at least 10 blanks. |
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Posts: 35
| Guys, I just had a long drawn out conversation with our molder. The cost of running a batch of the BASF material is going to be very costly. He does'nt even know if he can get that exact material anymore. And to top it off he will not glue the bodies together after they are molded because of the toxic glue he has to use. He would have to put in a special venting booth to follow code to do this. He is going to check the back whse on Monday to see if he has some of those lures left from the last run he made 12 years ago. If he does have some I will let you know how many are available and how to contact me direct to get them. I want to thank all of you for your support of Bucher Lures over the years. |
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Posts: 284
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Tilky,
Thank you very much for all of your time and energy trying to get these BASF baits run for us.
I can't speak for everyone here, but I for one think it sounds like WAY too much time and trouble to have this done. I would say just pull the plug on this and let it die.
Thank you again for making all those calls and shedding some light on this topic for us all. Couldn't have asked for more of an expert to explain this information to us.
Thank you again for your time and patience ~ Take care .... |
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Posts: 8824
| It ain't often we get to hear it right from the source. If I had a glass to raise I'd raise it to tilky right now for getting on here and not only answering questions, but taking the time to call around and getting the right answers.
If you do ever dig up any of the old bodies, I think you'd probably be able to sell them here. Maybe  |
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Posts: 209
| Tilky,
Thanks for trying, you can see the interest here, maybe it will work out for all of us.
In a way this helped us put closure to this issue - that there was a difference at one time.
Either way....thanks again for all the extra work,
T'dad
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Posts: 457
Location: Minneconia | Tilky,
Thanks for going out of your way to find all of that out for us, I commend you and feel more strongly now that Bucher's product line is in good hands, you obviously care a lot about making the best product possible. |
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Posts: 35
| Matey's thanks for all the kind words. I just want to let you guys know that we will always try to produce a quality product at a fair price. If there is a problem out there please let me know. We will do our best to correct it. Hopefully one of you will catch the next world record on one of our lures. |
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | Thank you very much for your efforts.
Craig |
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Posts: 121
| What about the Bigfoot series of Raiders??? When will they be available???? |
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Posts: 1188
Location: Iowa | Bigfoot Series?...Pictures?...differences?...I am intrigued now...
Big Perc |
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Posts: 35
| hopefully if things go right I should have them buy end of april, Bucher & I need to make sure these new lures work right before we can sell them. I will post it on this site the day they are availible. |
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| Do any of you guys have an idea of how much I could get for an original chrome DR still in the package? |
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Posts: 2308
Location: SE, WI. | Fishy 1; You can get as much as someone wants to pay you. Send me a pm. I'll take it  Usually go for about $25 and up!
JIM |
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| By the amount of emails I have been getting that lure is worth a lot. I talked live with trollingdad yesterday and he told me that their is a huge market ou there for our older lures. Good luck. |
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | Fishy 1...Lots of folks would love to have that bait...Ok, count me as one of them...If you want to maximize what you can get, Ebay is the way to go...or you could offer it to the highest bidder here (on the buy sell trade board) |
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Posts: 209
| Send me a photo @ [email protected] and if it is one I don't have yet.........
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
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| There is a difference in the lures. Holding the hooks against the body of the lure, shake an original Bucher DR. Do the same with a ROI, and you'll notice the difference. The new DRs sound much quieter. Either the size of the rattling chamber was reduced, allowing for less rattle movement, or the rattles themselves are different. The old ones always outproduce the new. |
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Posts: 1188
Location: Iowa | I just got an old D-Raider today compared to a new custom from Rollie and Helen's...the sound is soooo much different...it like night and day...the old one is real low and the new is real high...
Big Perc |
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Posts: 7077
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Let's try to put the posts selling these lures and others to the Buy/Sell/Trade Forum. |
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Posts: 663
| Ok Slamr. That was me asking about the DR (Fishy 1) I'll move it over there with a photo.
Thanks |
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Posts: 1188
Location: Iowa | Okay...so I just recently came into a brand new custom depthraider from Rollie and Helen's pictured above, a Pre-ROI depthraider also pictured above and then another one that is even older than the one picutred above...at the request of the individual who traded me the oldest depthraider I have ever seen or had my hands on, I did a test...I took the hooks off of all of the lures and shook them side by side to compare the rattles, then weight off hand and then hardness of the plastic.
The brand new ROI custom colored depthraider from R&H is a very high pitched rattle. Biting the lips to see how hard the plastic was revealed a softer plastic compared to the other two. It also seemed lighter in weight. The hooks were also extremely undersized.
The pre ROI depthraider in the classic pikie color seemed to have a deeper sounding rattle a little heavy than the R&H depthraider. Biting the lip on this one proved to be harder than the first one. The hooks though are still smaller than the other one.
The oldest depthraider I have ever seen has the lowest and most beautiful sounding rattle. The lip is rock hard. It actually hurt my teeth trying to bite the lip on it. And the hooks are perfectly sized. They actually are wider that the bait. This one is also heavier than the other two.
Just some simple modifications that I noticed from 3 depthraider stretchiung across the better part of probably 10 years of production. I don't mean to awaken a sleeping giant, I just thought I would share my findings.
Big Perc
Edited by Big Perc 2/22/2007 7:37 AM
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Posts: 35
| Big Perc, thanks for sharing this info with the Dr's. I know that we changed the hook size fro 3/0 to 2/0 because of the complaints we were getting about them getting fouled up. This was done only with Joe's approval. I would really like to have our molder do a test on all three lures. It would be interesting to see what each DR is made of and to see the actual rattles in them. I know it's hard to give up the old DR's but if you want our molder to tear them apart to see what the difference is I would replace your lures with our new ones and throw in the 3/0 hooks. I have one of our salesman Al, hitting all the eastern accounts of ours and told him to take and replace all of the older packaging lures he finds on the customers shelves. He will be giving me an update tomorrow on what he has found. So I should have some of the older lure available in the near future. I'll let you know. Thanks again for your help & support. |
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Location: Iowa | Tilky,
Thanks for the offer but the one I just tracked down I have been looking for for 3 years and barring me loosing it, I will be burried with the thing...it is one of the old Chart Top/Gold Side/Chart Bottom D-raiders and there is no way I could live with myself knowing that someone would be tearing it apart just to see what it is made of...I love the depthraiders line, both old and new. It really doesn't matter to me what they are made of, they still catch a ton of fish, even though I have never caught a fish on a D-raider but I have seen and lost some pretty big fish caught on them. I have had tons of follows but just can't seem to connect. My dad caught his biggest walleye ever on an old Firetiger one of mine that "bleeds" now...just adds character. Thanks for the offer about the depthraiders but as long as I have the old ones I won't allow them to get torn apart.
Big Perc |
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Posts: 35
| I understand matey, hopefully we can dig some old ones up for you guys |
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Posts: 2308
Location: SE, WI. | Here you go guys....blast from the past. La Maitre.....post U referred to! And Tilky’s loyalty towards the wants and needs of our mighty pre- Roberts Raiders;) I remember Jeff Sacco well. His findings were pretty much exactly mine! Happy reading on the famous old and new depth raiders. If people were willing to pay $25 in 07? How much they worth today? JD |
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Posts: 540
Location: Leech Lake, Walker MN | Hey Matt
It’s been awhile how you and your family doing ?
Say I have lots of old and original Depth Raiders
Is there that much call for the old ones for me to dig out what I have ?
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Looking at the hook rash on my DR's my best ones the plastic is clear(ish) the least favoured are white |
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Posts: 82
| Hey JD do you know of anyone who has ever compiled a list of all the DR patterns ever made ? Would certainly be very interesting to have such a list. And let’s not forget the custom patterns Rollie & Helen’s had. Amazing how many variances there were, Rollie sold a custom non rattling in a few colours but even then you still find them in other colours that somehow managed to slip out and what about the weight variation, I’ve found there can be up to a 14g difference between some countdown models. |
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Posts: 2308
Location: SE, WI. | Steve, I bet Mr Gelb had a list of all the patterns as he was influential in Production. Mr Tilky with Smokey’s on the bay, probably has countless patterns , as they do custom painting of I believe Flicker shads, Shad raps, and Probably Depth Raiders, and many other lures.. Tilky, I believe still has a custom painter he uses, at least he did when I was in there about a year ago. I had several customs done from some of the really good painters off our basement bait forum. Funny how one of the posts talks about some guy biting down on the lips and bodies to figure out hardness;) JD |
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Posts: 2308
Location: SE, WI. | DonPursch - 4/25/2021 8:54 AM Hey Matt It’s been awhile how you and your family doing ? Say I have lots of old and original Depth Raiders Is there that much call for the old ones for me to dig out what I have ? Gee’s Don; if I had known you stock piled DR’s, I would of had Lynne buy you a few extra drinks at Jerry’s in the angle, late October JD |
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Posts: 1145
| Where do the red lipped DRs fit into the timeline? |
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Posts: 82
| MartinTD - 4/26/2021 12:01 PM
Where do the rep lipped DRs fit into the timeline?
I can remember them around the mid 90’s, some DR’s probably just received a red lip by accident but generally the lip was painted red on the chrome models because for some reason the plastic used was opaque (white) and not clear on the chrome finished models. I can’t remember why the need for a different plastic but sometime later there was a range of chrome finished DR’s released that came with clear lips.
Yes I’ve seen a red lipped Fire Tiger but it’s freak ! |
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Posts: 209
| I have some of these in my pile guys, fun seeing this brought back up after all these years
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Posts: 2308
Location: SE, WI. | Trollindad - 4/29/2021 9:56 PM I have some of these in my pile guys, fun seeing this brought back up after all these years Hello Jeff; Everyone loved your dinner table JD |
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Posts: 209
| I bought 5 of these for $50ea from Capt Larry D Jones early in the 2000’s..... I think he found them at Howard Wagner’s store.
It went something like that..... that was a lot of Fig-8 ago...I actually sold/gave 2 of these to friends shortly after... both frequent this board.
I often wondered if there was a more complete collection of colors than what was on my dining room table. At one time I had over 500 DR’s (130 were jointed).
Maybe I’m just a little older now... but that seems excessive ??.
Tight lines to all of you, I’m not on here like I used to be. Catch a whopper and let it go! |
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