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Location: lansing, il | i started musky fishing because i wanted to catch trophy fish. since i was 12 i have always considered musky a trophy fish, and dont feel it is about catching numbers, if i was concerned with #s i would pike bass or walleye fish more. but i feel its more about catching "the one". not that there is any right or wrong answer here, its about what you want personally. but i think people get to hung up on the numbers game and lose sight of the fact that we are chasing a fish that is considered a trophy fish. where do you fall????
Edited by muskihntr 1/22/2007 11:27 AM
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Location: Yahara River Chain | What is a quality fish?????????
I know what quanity is. |
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Location: lansing, il | quality fish??? i suppose would be the upper end of the size of the fish in the waters you are fishing. |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | I think we ALL are trying to catch those guys. |
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Location: lansing, il | well i would like to agree with ya gerard but it seems to me sometimes people get so ingulfed in putting #s of fish in the boat that they lose sight of the fact that musky fishing is about catching the trophies. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | quality fish??? i suppose would be the upper end of the size of the fish in the waters you are fishing.
So what you're sort of saying is that there are some people who go to a muskie lake, target muskies, and AREN'T targeting the biggest fish in the system? These guys go to lakes and chase smaller fish than the upper echelons of the muskie size strata? |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | in a way yes ....in otherwords you know you can go to spot x where your sure to put a fish or a few fish in the boat, vs going to spot y where you have seen big ones or know the big ones are but have not been able to get them to go. so intead of concentrating on trying to get "the one" you settle for the others. make sense???? or no?
Not that I know much of anything, but I've been chasing muskies for about 20 years, and I cant say I've ever been with anyone muskie fishing that said "yeah, thats a big fish spot, but let's go after some smaller fish". Lake choice, MAYBE, but spot choice on lakes? Never seen it in my limited experience. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i'll bite .... i'm not smart enough or organized enough to keep track of numbers or conditions in detail ... i depend on what comes naturally to make a plan for the day on the water and then it has a lot to do with whether i'm on my own or somebody else is in the boat or whether it's league night or a wmt or just out on the water or on a planned trip to mn. or canada. on my own i'll fish lower percentages for where i "think" bigger fish are and sometimes i'm right and sometimes i'm woefully wrong. league nights can get pretty exciting just seeing a tail touch the 34 mark ... whereas in canada i just like to see horses come at you and hope it's my time to have an eater and do the right thing if that is at all possible, but i'm perfectly happy with a net in my hand and with a camera helping someone else to enjoy a big experience. when i get home or to the dock i enjoy hearing from others and could care less whether they or i had a better or more successful day, i'll tend to try to understand the difference and try to learn from it on the next trip out. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I don't get hung up on trophies OR numbers. I think every single muskie that hits the Frabill is as cool as the last or next, the only difference between a 50 and a 39 is the length. Both are good fish, both are what I'm out there for, and I don't wish to diminish the thrill of a 35" fish to a 'disappointment'. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | in a way yes ....in otherwords you know you can go to spot x where your sure to put a fish or a few fish in the boat, vs going to spot y where you have seen big ones or know the big ones are but have not been able to get them to go. so intead of concentrating on trying to get "the one" you settle for the others. make sense???? or no?
I've been chasing muskies for about 20 years, and I cant say I've ever been with anyone muskie fishing that said "yeah, thats a big fish spot, but let's go after some smaller fish". Lake choice, MAYBE, but spot choice on lakes? Never seen it in my limited experience. |
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Location: lansing, il | never heard a guide or someone tell you "this is a big fish spot"???? come on now... |
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Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | When the day comes that I am pissed at catching a high 30's fish and it not being over 40 I will have my head examined. People who loose the thrill of the catch because they get caught up in number or size are whacked in my mind.
A muskie is a muskie. Clients enjoy catching fish. Big fish come into the boat as do average smaller fish. I see the excitement all the time. Never have I seen someone shake off a 40-incher. The guys that do, well sucks to be that hung up in size that you can't enjoy all the fish you catch.
I let my clients choose. Numbers or quality. 90% choose the numbers. I like to fish for quality but putting fish in the net is my job, it's their call.
Lakes I choose to fish on my vacations I choose for quality. Trophys is what I am looking for. But I will never get pissed if a fish is under 40's inches. Thats just stupid in my opinion. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I sure say that, because in many cases it's absolute fact. There are areas in many lakes and rivers I fish that seem to produce big fish consistently. Smaller fish too, but when multiple 50's come form a certain small area, that, like the Hog Pen and Lou's Bay on the Goon, is a big fish spot. But Slamr is right, I don't feel I CAN'T catch a 55 anywhere else on the Goon, for example, so I'm not fishing 'small fish spots' either. It's both. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | muskihntr - 1/22/2007 12:10 PM
never heard a guide or someone tell you "this is a big fish spot"???? come on now...
My point is I've never heard anyone say "thats a big fish spot, let's go to the small fish spots". |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | here's a case for learning ... a shallow weedy bay known for perch and pike on lake tom. ... middle - later summer ... a spot i would stay away from from traditional experiences .... guy from the campground in his small boat catches perch, 51.5" tiger eats perch ... likely one of the coolest looking fish i've ever seen gets caught. coulda been me? .... nope, i was out on the "big fish water" on that same day. .... just his day and not mine i guess. when you're looking for the left hook you can get hit in the stomach quickly by these crazy fish eh? |
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Posts: 8833
| I don't think anybody goes out and says "hey, let's go get a little one!!"
But there's a clear difference between just wanting to catch muskies (targeting numbers) and wanting to catch a big one.
I'll forgo fishing a "numbers" lake for a shot at a 40 pounder. But I'm always happy to see a fish in the net no matter how small it is. I'm not going to pull the lure away from a 38, but I'm not going to pretend that a 48 doesn't make my heart pound just a little more. |
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Location: nationwide | I am after any sized muskie that wants to play . .. .especially with topwater lures. Any muskie that goes after a topwatrer lure is my favorite!!!!!!!
Corey Meyer |
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| I like both, I will fish anywhere you tell me there is a musky, granted, I like to know I have a legitimate shot at a trophy, but, I will take what I can get, I used to just get off having a follow for the day, but catching one no matter the size suits me just fine, would I rather just catch big ones all the time? heck yeah, is it possible? Not really, The fishing I had this fall was just what Im looking for in a fishery, lots of numbers, and a few "trophies" mixed in. I can't complain one bit. |
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Posts: 785
| Interesting comments. I have only fished for muskies 5 seasons and the first two years only involved 4 days of fishing each. So I can easily see the difference from 06' and 05' seasons which was my transition into trophy hunting. Up to 05' I did go to lakes that offered lots of numbers of fish becouse with limited time I wanted to simply put lots of fish in the boat. The 05' season I still chased numbers but I looked for bodies of water that had trophy potential as well. The 06' season proved to be interesting in that in chasing larger fish I caught my PB 5 times from April 1st to Sept. 10th but my numbers where down by quite a bit. So as I am at this point I can say that trophy fish are my target fish and my goal fish, but any musky in the boat is excellet and when a 35" musky follows to the boat I go into a figure eight same as if a 45"er followed. I also think a good musky spot is a good musky spot. On most bodies of water I don't really have trophy spots and dink spots. When I do have both kinds of spots I naturally go to the trophy water which I might not of two years ago.
In relation to the TIGER story I remember 3 years ago going into a sloppy shallow weedy bay on a severe August coldfront day and catching two tiny pike and a 20 pound tiger musky! So you never know. |
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Posts: 1188
Location: Iowa | just muskies...a big one would be real nice...but a muskie is a muskie is a muskie no matter which way the pie is sliced...
Big Perc |
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Location: Contrarian Island | There are plenty of places around the musky world where there may be a "numbers lake" right next to a tougher bite water but bigger fish on avg...take Indiana...the avg size say on Tippy is bigger right?..but yet most go to Webster..why? cuz they can have a better shot at fish right?
Take Madison, we have our little pay pond, Wingra, I fished it for 5 hours this year, and only did that so I could clean up on a matchfishing day ;-). Do I want to fish if I have a choice over Monona/Wauby? No, not really, there are smaller fish in there, but yet you take a look in the lot on any given weekend day and see numerous trucks/ trailers...they could fish monona/waubesa and probably catch bigger fish, maybe less of them but they choose Wingra..to each their own. I fish a ton of lakes all over the musky land..I go there trying to catch the biggest fish I can that day....I don't fish any waters where a shot at a 45" plus fish is not a reality...
I like to catch muskies..numbers and size..I target the biggest fish I can on that water, that day...whether I end up with a 40 or 6 fish over 40 I'll be happy with fish in the net...
where you are in the quality / quantity spectrum probably comes from how experienced you are and how many years you have been at it and how many fish over 40" you have under your belt...is a 40" something to shake off, no, but when you catch enough of them, it is just a touch more fun to hook and land bigger fish...
bnelson
Edited by MSKY HNR 1/22/2007 1:53 PM
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| Mikes Extreme - 1/22/2007 12:13 PM
When the day comes that I am pissed at catching a high 30's fish and it not being over 40 I will have my head examined. People who loose the thrill of the catch because they get caught up in number or size are whacked in my mind.
A muskie is a muskie. Clients enjoy catching fish. Big fish come into the boat as do average smaller fish. I see the excitement all the time. Never have I seen someone shake off a 40-incher. The guys that do, well sucks to be that hung up in size that you can't enjoy all the fish you catch.
I let my clients choose. Numbers or quality. 90% choose the numbers. I like to fish for quality but putting fish in the net is my job, it's their call.
Lakes I choose to fish on my vacations I choose for quality. Trophys is what I am looking for. But I will never get pissed if a fish is under 40's inches. Thats just stupid in my opinion.
Took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!!!! Great minds think alike  |
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Location: lansing, il | this thread has nothing to do with shaking off fish or catching fish it is about targeting the fish you choose to attept to catch. heck i am still quite happy with a mid to high 30s in the net! just because im not targeting that fish doesnt mean i wont catch it, however when i see people that will camp on low 30 to sub 30" fish i tend to draw the line there in my book. but thats just me. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Which begged the question and gets you the answers. Nothing wrong with trying to catch ANY Muskie. |
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Location: South Portsmouth, KY | muskihntr - 1/22/2007 3:29 PM
this thread has nothing to do with shaking off fish or catching fish it is about targeting the fish you choose to attept to catch. heck i am still quite happy with a mid to high 30s in the net! just because im not targeting that fish doesnt mean i wont catch it, however when i see people that will camp on low 30 to sub 30" fish i tend to draw the line there in my book. but thats just me.
Let me give you this situation since you said something about camping on fish. If your out on the lake and fish hard all day with a couple of follows from 30 inch ish fish and thats all you seen all day. Would you not want to go back in the evening and try to give the 30 inch ish fish another shot or would you just forget about it? Myself, i would be going back to catch those fish in a heartbeat!!
Edited by muskie_man 1/22/2007 2:42 PM
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Location: lansing, il | muskyman..me personally....no
steve...as stated in my first post there was no right or wrong answer here.
Edited by muskihntr 1/22/2007 2:46 PM
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Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Great thread John.
Although I've only fished exclusively for muskies for a couple of seasons now, the thrill of trying to figure out where the biggest fish in the system is gets my blood pumping. It's still awesome just to raise fish and try to get them to eat but there's nothng like when that bigger fish swims up and takes a look.
If I wanted purely numbers, I'd go back to Bass and Pike in a heartbeat and do very well at it again. Musky fishing for me personally has been a dream since I was 10 years old but I never really fished on waters that had more than the occasional musky until recently. I always wanted to catch and release my first musky on a lure I'd made and now that I've done that, it's about researching and figuring out where to find those bigger fish.
I have to agree on the top water comment though. There's no bigger thrill than those heart pounding boatside strikes at dusk! Right Tremblay? |
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| muskie_man - 1/22/2007 2:37 PM
muskihntr - 1/22/2007 3:29 PM
this thread has nothing to do with shaking off fish or catching fish it is about targeting the fish you choose to attept to catch. heck i am still quite happy with a mid to high 30s in the net! just because im not targeting that fish doesnt mean i wont catch it, however when i see people that will camp on low 30 to sub 30" fish i tend to draw the line there in my book. but thats just me.
Let me give you this situation since you said something about camping on fish. If your out on the lake and fish hard all day with a couple of follows from 30 inch ish fish and thats all you seen all day. Would you not want to go back in the evening and try to give the 30 inch ish fish another shot or would you just forget about it? Myself, i would be going back to catch those fish in a heartbeat!!
I love every fish that hits the net, but I wont go back on a fish that small. to me, it just isnt worth the effort. and there is really no sense in helping educate a fish that young by putting hooks in its face.
That may sound arrogant, but I dont mean it like that. That's just the way I fish, and I am definitely not condemning those that do otherwise. |
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Location: South Portsmouth, KY | I know on the lakes in kentucky if i raised smaller fish i would go back on them cause we fish highly pressured lakes and any muskie is a good muskie. But it might be different for you guys up north where you are fishing more trophy waters i can understand where you are coming from. So i guess that i am on the fence. In Ky yea i would go back on smaller fish, but up north like in canada then no i probably wouldent go back on smaller fish. |
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| Going back on a small fish? Not at 10:00am, but at 5:00? I just might. At 9:30pm, I probably would if we hadn't seen anything else all day. Some times it just makes sense to punt! |
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Posts: 305
Location: Illinois | By default it's quantity. I am just not seeing huge fish on my local waters. Some really big fish have been caught by others, but not in big numbers. I am fishing a few events of the PMTT this year so numbers I guess as the events I'm fishing are not known for monster fish. Quality to me means a 45 incher, which is not a trophy to many. I will say that anytime I get bit, by any musky, I love it. I will never pull my bait away from a 35 incher because it's too small. |
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| I haven't caught enough to be picky......any musky.
Erieboy75 |
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Location: IN | To me the progressions of a musky fisherman are alot like the five stages of hunter development. I think it's safe to assume that all musky fisherman want more AND bigger fish. All of us try to make the most out of our time on the water. The amount of time and experience we have can really dictate our view on what's more productive, quality or quantity. |
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| In my opinion, Muskie_Man, if you are raising 30" fish on certain structure, the bigger fish are around and will be just as aggressive. Hit similar areas where you found the smaller fish and you will probably bump into something a bit bigger. You will certainly learn more by fishing more spots. IMO, you don't learn much from a fish that small. They are already at a disadvantage being so small, so they tend to be more aggressive. I would rather catch one 48" ALL SEASON than one hundred 30"ers. To me, gambling for the bigger fish and learning a new spot or two versus returning to catch small fish is more valuable. |
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Location: South Portsmouth, KY | esox50 - 1/22/2007 9:46 PM
In my opinion, Muskie_Man, if you are raising 30" fish on certain structure, the bigger fish are around and will be just as aggressive. Hit similar areas where you found the smaller fish and you will probably bump into something a bit bigger. You will certainly learn more by fishing more spots. IMO, you don't learn much from a fish that small. They are already at a disadvantage being so small, so they tend to be more aggressive. I would rather catch one 48" ALL SEASON than one hundred 30"ers. To me, gambling for the bigger fish and learning a new spot or two versus returning to catch small fish is more valuable.
Well, i agree with you to a point. Im talkin about if ya fished hard all day and seen noting but a couple of small ones and you got less than 30 min or so before dark. Then yea i would go back if its close and hit them just to try to get a shot and salvage the day somewhat. |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | This question will get many answers from people all over the muskie world. Lots of people fish waters where they don't get a shot at a 48 to 50-something every time out or every weekend. Some lakes just don't have the larger fish in huge numbers. Every lake has its hot spots that kick out fish, most of those will have smaller fish in general because the smaller fish will be more aggressive. Does that mean it would not hold a big girl at prime time?
I have trophy spots all over the lakes I fish. These spots are spots on the spots. I will make that run through those spots and past them. Big fish can be anywhere.
Take Cave Run for example. Lots of small fish but some real hawgs will come from the same spots. What would you call those spots? Trophy spots or numbers spots?
How about Millie Lac's. I have not seen a fish under 37-inches come out of that pond. Most fish are in the low to mid 40's to 48-inches on average. Quality is 50-inches to ?
Now lets take LOW. Huge fish there and numbers spots everywhere. This is where I would say you can pick trophy spots over numbers spots. The first few days I woud make a milk run of lots of spots and try to pattern some large fish. Then I would concentrate on those big fish for the remainder of my trip. I want big fish if I am on trophy waters. Numbers are nice while your patterning fish, quality is best when your on a pattern.
Good, honest answers are hard to come by by posters. Everyone wants to be the big fish guy. My personal best of two(46lb & 52lb) monsters in two days will be very hard for me to beat. If I am on trophy waters at prime time I will be all over big fish spots only. But around here I fish for muskies, lots of muskies, and catch some trophys along the way.
A muskie caught on a tough lake is good, a trophy caught on a tough lake is great. A trophy fish may be 45 to 48-inchers on some lakes, 48 to 52-inches on some others and 52 to 60-inches on trophy waters. The "trophy fish" term or "quality" is different for everyone. Once you have some quality fish under your belt the bar seems to get higher. I still believe that a 45-inch muskies is a great catch and I hope I always will.
I like this tread, good stuff to keep everyone reading...........................Post away, I am soooooo read for the new 2007 season to get here!!!! |
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Location: Brookfield, WI | This year I hope to land a large quality of quantity fish.
Kevin
Homemade pizza all winter long. |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | A LARGE quantity of QUALITY fish!!!
You and me Kevin. |
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| I am after quality muskies and that varies tremendously depending on where you are fishing.
It is very true that every musky is a good musky and we are blessed to have the opportunity to fish for them  |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Let's say I'm at Sioux Narrows. I know there are several reefs there that hold a big fish or two, so I fish them at least three times a day. I also fish the surrounding area, hoping to contact the fish if it's moved off the reef for some reason. I catch quite a few smaller fish doing this. Am I 'targeting' big fish? Not really, I'm fishing areas I saw big fish, but not exclusively or I would never find OTHER big fish or properly eliminate water and patterns for the conditions. I also do allot of 'rule breaking', and fish in places that are not exactly traditional big fish spots.
If, however, I am on the Goon and have a full day milk run going because of spotting several in the trophy class, I AM targeting big fish and pretty much live on them until one or more decides to go. I catch lots of smaller fish doing that as well, but am at that point looking for a big girl and near beating the area to death in the process. I'm still delighted to net a 35" fish, I'm just plain never immune to being excited about boating a muskie of any size.
I use small baits on Sioux Narrows quite a bit and do well there with them, including a few in the 48" class. Cranks banging the round rock deep edges of reefs are productive. Same at Sabaskong Bay. On the Goon, I may use a 5" Violent Strike because the fish is in less than 2' and I don't want to drop a bomb in there. Am I looking for big or little fish when using a 5" Slammer? Both.
Mike and Hopeful said it very well. |
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| So i guess that i am on the fence. In Ky yea i would go back on smaller fish, but up north like in canada then no i probably wouldent go back on smaller fish.
Being in Iowa I have a similar situation in that on many of the lakes I fish I will return to spots I raised 35-40" fish. In these lakes I often times will raise three or four fish in 50 yards of shorline so if a fish is located I can assume other fish will be there also along with a big boy. For the most part however I am actually hoping to catch the fish I raised earlier becouse the big ones can be a bit tough to come by at times when in Iowa (but many 50"ers do swim in the state). On Mille Lacs (for example) however I fish big fish spots and when I return to spots I seen smaller muskies on earlier its not to catch that fish but the bigger one using the spot. I have seen 28" follows and 50" follows come 10 casts appart on that lake proving there just good spots for all muskies. While I love all muskies I will agree that I would take one 48"er over a hundred 30"ers over the course of the season... ...but I'd rather have BOTH! |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Have you ever noticed that when you see or locate a big quality fish that its much harder to get this same fish to eat than a smaller fish?
Does that mean that the bigger fish are "Smarter" or more conditioned?
Last yr. for example I found 3 huge fish that I went back to and tried everything, they followed a few times but just wouldn't hit .
I enjoy catching numbers as much as the next guy........BUT........those Tankers that swim free out there are what really gets me high!!
Jerome
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Location: God's Country......USA..... Western Wisconsin | Fished for these critters in Western Wisconsin for most of my life. Deer Lake and Bone Lake mostly. While there are some big fish in these waters they are few and far inbetween. I have caught a lot of Muskies from these waters and I would now prefer to fish for QUALITY rather than Quantity. Sheer numbers of fish is great fun but I need some big girls this year....... |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | My personal belief is that bigger fish consume more food at one feeding opportunity and therefore don't need to feed as often as smaller more hyper active fish. They also have the capability of consuming a much larger sized meal at once and can therefore eat a larger range of prey. More food options means less need to take advantage of everything edible that swims by. Just my two cents.
Edited by Musky Snax 1/23/2007 5:24 PM
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Location: 1000 Islands region, St. Lawrence river | Here on the St. Lawrence we fish for quantity. Although we are fishing for quantity, quality usually comes with it.
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| I'm looking for the biggest fish in the lake and if I have to catch a bunch of less than biggest that's fine with me. Put me down for both. |
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| When I fish for bass and catch smaller fish I don't mind it at all. Those big fish will come. And when your targeting the bigger fish, the small fish will still be there. So either way your catching fish small and big. If it played out the way some want it, and thats to only catch big fish, your not going to be doing a whole lot of catching. (depending on which waters you are fishing)
With muskies, I can't recall a time where the bigger fish were in different areas as the smaller fish. Not even in Canada. I have limited experience fishing northern waters though. Maybe I'm just not paying attention to where the big fish are vs where the small fish are because I do not know the answer when I first get on the water. After you put in the time and put your head to work you will either catch a big fish, catch a small fish, catch a big fish and a small fish, catch a bunch of small fish, bunch of big fish, or a bunch of big and small fish... you had a successful day. I don't think anyone can go into the day and think they are targeting big fish (again, different waters vary but I assume most of us do not ONLY fish trophy waters) Then there is the getting skunked thing... I'd rather catch a bunch of dinks than get skunked.
Are you really only targeting bigger muskies when you say you are? I think not. If your fishing a big rock reef out in the middle of Eagle (big fish spot) and a 32 inch muskie comes flying at your bait and you have a chance to rip it away from it... you can't convince me you would do so.
I'd rather keep doing what I'm doing, and thats having a good time fishing SPOTS, breaking them down, paying attention to weather, forage, etc. Those big fish and small fish have came while MUSKIE fishing, not by specifically targeting on or the other. I just like to find a pattern and its even funner when you have someone with you that likes to do the same and not complain if all we see or catch are small fish.
Just my little opinion. |
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Location: South Portsmouth, KY | Reelwise - 1/23/2007 8:04 PM
When I fish for bass and catch smaller fish I don't mind it at all. Those big fish will come. And when your targeting the bigger fish, the small fish will still be there. So either way your catching fish small and big. If it played out the way some want it, and thats to only catch big fish, your not going to be doing a whole lot of catching. (depending on which waters you are fishing)
With muskies, I can't recall a time where the bigger fish were in different areas as the smaller fish. Not even in Canada. I have limited experience fishing northern waters though. Maybe I'm just not paying attention to where the big fish are vs where the small fish are because I do not know the answer when I first get on the water. After you put in the time and put your head to work you will either catch a big fish, catch a small fish, catch a big fish and a small fish, catch a bunch of small fish, bunch of big fish, or a bunch of big and small fish... you had a successful day. I don't think anyone can go into the day and think they are targeting big fish (again, different waters vary but I assume most of us do not ONLY fish trophy waters) Then there is the getting skunked thing... I'd rather catch a bunch of dinks than get skunked.
Are you really only targeting bigger muskies when you say you are? I think not. If your fishing a big rock reef out in the middle of Eagle (big fish spot) and a 32 inch muskie comes flying at your bait and you have a chance to rip it away from it... you can't convince me you would do so.
I'd rather keep doing what I'm doing, and thats having a good time fishing SPOTS, breaking them down, paying attention to weather, forage, etc. Those big fish and small fish have came while MUSKIE fishing, not by specifically targeting on or the other. I just like to find a pattern and its even funner when you have someone with you that likes to do the same and not complain if all we see or catch are small fish.
Just my little opinion.
AMEN!! You said it best!
Edited by muskie_man 1/23/2007 7:10 PM
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Posts: 2067
| If I am on eagle or LOTW and know there is a big fish around (raised before) and a 32" fish comes hot...heck yes I am taking it away from that fish! |
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Posts: 1636
| Why? Catching that small fish might even entice those bigger fish to strike even more. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I would say every year I pull my baits away from about 50 fish that range from SUPER DINK to about 38 inches. If a sub 40 followings in, I usually pull my bait out of the water and not try to educate and catch that fish. No real reason to.
I am looking for the biggest fish I can put my clients on. I want them to have a shot at a 45+ everyday, and they usually do. People remember that one BIG one way more than they remember a 33 incher.
I definately try to target bigger fish and refuse to figure 8 unless it is very close to 40, but that's just me. |
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Posts: 1636
| Its kind of different pulling baits away when you have already established a pattern and LOCATED those big fish. But before you get on the water I don't think you can predict the pattern will be the same. Like I said, it depends on the body of water. And if your a guide in Indiana pulling your bait away from any fish is both nonsense and understandable. There are plenty of fish in those lakes and they are small enough to possibly develop a pattern fairly quickly. (but its not always that easy as some people assume on those waters) |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | No matter where I am I fish pretty much the same way; good baits on good spots. If a small fish is there, I will catch it and be happy, if a big fish is there I will catch it and be happier!
If you continue throwing good baits on good spots not only will you see a rise in the quantity of fish you catch, you will also see an increase in the quality of fish you catch. That all said, it is very rare to find a "good" spot that never has a smaller fish on it, and vice versa, all "good" spots will occasionally hold the quality fish of the system also. |
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| I would say every year I pull my baits away from about 50 fish that range from SUPER DINK to about 38 inches. If a sub 40 followings in, I usually pull my bait out of the water and not try to educate and catch that fish. No real reason to.
I am looking for the biggest fish I can put my clients on. I want them to have a shot at a 45+ everyday, and they usually do. People remember that one BIG one way more than they remember a 33 incher.
I definately try to target bigger fish and refuse to figure 8 unless it is very close to 40, but that's just me.
although some people have cast their doubts, the Muskies Inc data that Mike registers backs this up.
here's a sample from 2 days late in '06...more fish than most people catch in a season, and a much better size average than most anyone maintains over the span of more than 3 fish.
418 235341 12/25/2006 38.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
419 235342 12/25/2006 37.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
420 235344 12/25/2006 35.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
421 235343 12/25/2006 40.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
422 236004 12/29/2006 38.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
423 236005 12/29/2006 36.25" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
424 236006 12/29/2006 41.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
425 236008 12/29/2006 37.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
426 236009 12/29/2006 39.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
427 236010 12/29/2006 40.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
428 236011 12/29/2006 40.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
429 236012 12/29/2006 39.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
430 236013 12/29/2006 38.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
431 236014 12/29/2006 37.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
432 236007 12/29/2006 43.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified
from what i hear, the Indiana lakes are chock full of sub-38" fish, and on a day when the fish were "going" Mike only registers fish in the 40" range.
go to the MInc lunge log and look at his registered fish over the course of the year and you'll see that he is not catching many smaller fish and maintained a personal average of over 39" on the year - a VERY tough feat to accomplish.
well done, Mike!
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Posts: 1636
| That was certainly a good week, but there were a lot of smaller fish caught too. Like I said I don't THINK you can only target BIG fish (maybe up north) and you def. can not do it in Indiana. Thats like saying you only fish 2 or 3 spots on each lake, because the lakes are not that big at all. It doesn't make sense. Please explain to me how you ONLY target big fish in Indiana, or anywhere in the mid/souther portion of the US. And saying you pull your baits away from smaller fish doesn't explain it.
I do know a TON of big and FAT fish were being caught at the end of December and beginning of January out there. Saw lots of pictures that made me wish I was out fishing.
Edited by Reelwise 1/25/2007 4:41 PM
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| Book a few dates with Mike. Last year I went out with Mike in the fall he asked me if I minded hitting just a few spots based on the prior 3 days weather. Sure I said. Well we had 14 fish we missed on the hook set 5 or six follows including one that was about 48" that played tag with us 6 times and ended the day with me hooking a 42. Went out with Mike this fall first spot first cast got a follow from a 46 a spot he said that if ithere was a fish on it would be big. We had 7 more follows in a different areas and I had a 40 hit on the 8. Also got my biggest pike around a 40 that day on another big fish spot. Point being we fished where we fished because Mike knew that was the best shot at big fish. People fishing other areas and lakes only saw or caught dinks both days. So yeah he can have a pretty good idea where to go be for he hits the water. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Perhaps if I had hundreds of muskies under my belt I would say that I am chasing that true beast. But even then I think that I have such a passion for fishing for muskies that ANY one I do manage to fool into eating is a good fish. To be honest some of the smaller fish I have caught have fought harder than the bigger ones I have caught. Any fish of any species is fun to catch! |
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Posts: 1636
| Yes, you can have an idea where the big fish are. And yes I'm sure he knows where some big fish spots are because he has caught them on those lakes. But, small fish are in those SAME areas and you will catch them the same exact way you catch the big ones. Again, those lakes are too small for the fish not to share the same spots and share them at the same times during most of the year. Thats just my opinion, but if you were to tell me otherwise then I would probably think you are trying to tell me the lake is divided up like kindergarten through senior year in high school.
Maybe we are confusing the big fish/small fish idea. I'm talking fish over 44-45". To me a 36-42" fish is a fish worth talking about and if Mike is talking about targeting upper 40" plus in fish when he says he is targeting the bigger fish on the lakes then that is understandable. I don't think you can go out and say you are targeting 45" plus fish.
And I was not just talking about Mike... I was speaking in general. That is just my opinion.
I think you can have a mind set on which fish you are "Targeting" but you never know and you do not control which fish seeks interest in your lure.
I havnt learned to be more specific in the posts yet, lol |
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| Reelwise: please read what's actually said by someone before you reply.
MikeHulbert - 1/24/2007 7:50 AM
I would say every year I pull my baits away from about 50 fish that range from SUPER DINK to about 38 inches. If a sub 40 followings in, I usually pull my bait out of the water and not try to educate and catch that fish. No real reason to.
I...refuse to figure 8 unless it is very close to 40, but that's just me.
he never said they aren't in the lake or on those spots. said he specifically tries to avoid catching them when able to do so. actively pulling baits away from small fish IS a way to select for bigger fish.
are you a member of Muskies Inc? go to the lunge log and LOOK IT UP. there's no way to maintain that high of an average if you're catching lots of 30-34"ers. and Mike is in the running for Masters' Division Champion every year - thus giving him an incentive to catch those fish but it's abundantly clear that he walks his talk on this issue.
2006 Mens Masters' Division Top 10
Jeff M. Hanson 194 39" average
Mike Hulbert 177 fish 39" average
Will Schultz 179 39" average
Jason Hamernick 122 44" average
Ken Worel 100 43" average
Will Hardy 199 fish 34" average
Jeff Kachmann 121 fish 38" average
Charles Schauer 76 fish 40" average
John Aschenbrenner 79 fish 39" average
Joe Hardy 119 fish 34" average
Mike said he pulled his baits away from ~50 fish this year. considering he has the same size average as Jeff Hanson for his first 177 fish, those 50 fish would easily have given him enough points to win the Masters' Divison this year.
think about it.
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Posts: 1636
| You can maintain a 40" average by not pulling your baits away from fish. I did it last year.
I made my point and like I said in my last post, I was NOT directly referring to MIKE's post.
I do not enter my fish in any contests. That does not mean I can not have an opinion on the subject without having other peoples numbers thrown in my face.
Looks like this one got out of hand.... I'll remember not to reply to another thread like this.
Edited by Reelwise 1/25/2007 8:14 PM
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Posts: 136
| Reelwise, there are other ways to target bigger fish then just fishing paticular spots, you can also target them with patterns. The amount of time Mike puts on the water I'm sure he's figured out a few. |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | I'm curious for those guys that target suspended muskies, do smaller 39" and below muskies suspend over deep water or do they tend to be the larger fish? I know that with Pike, the larger they get the cooler the water they prefer. Does the same ring true with muskies?
Thanks. |
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Posts: 1636
| Thanks... I did not know that Pistol Pete.
MuskySnax,
In some of the places I fish I've raised and caught bigger fish and 38" class fish over deep water casting. Mainly in a panfish forage lake when the pods of bluegills were also suspended. To clarify a little more these lakes are in Illinois so I'm not sure if they count...
Edited by Reelwise 1/25/2007 8:34 PM
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | My best friend Sean Tremblay targeted bigger fish last season by primarilly throwing his 11" gliders of mine and he put more big fish in the boat than he ever had before and his number of smaller fish went down dramatically. Before using his Snax gliders, he was almost always using bucktails and putting a high number of fish in the boat but none as large as the ones that came when he went to bigger slow moving baits.
Are the same sized fish sharing the same areas? Of course but you can definitely use different patterns or specific presentations to reduce smaller fish being caught. |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Reelwise, thanks for your input. Anyone else like to comment on the suspended musky question I raised?
My goal this season is to put at least one 50" in the boat and I'd like to maximise my odds by concentrating on areas where the bigger fish will more often be found. |
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Posts: 136
| Reelwise - 1/25/2007 4:33 PM
. Please explain to me how you ONLY target big fish in Indiana, or anywhere in the mid/souther portion of the US. And saying you pull your baits away from smaller fish doesn't explain it.
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I was answering your question. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Obviously some people are having a hard time understanding how I try to target bigger fish.
1. Fish Proven Big Fish Spots during Big Fish Feeding Windows
2. Fish with Big fish lures. I don't use small lures. The smallest bait I throw or have clients throw is probably 7.5-8 inches.
3. If I go to a spot and see 1-5 small fish, under 40, I move and won't come back on those fish.
4. Spending over 200 days on the water lets me know where I need to be during certain times, water temps, or pre/post frontal situations.
5. Don't figure 8 small fish
Most my guys who get in the boat with me know I am going for a big fish, and not numbers of fish. I want clients holding up a decent Indiana musky, not just another cookie cutter 35 incher.
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Well said Mike!
Guys like me appreciate that guides like yourself share your experience with us on boards like this. You walk the walk and tell it like it is regardless of the outcome.
Respect! |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Bigger the fish........Bigger the smile......
Go Dawgs Go |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Reelwise, you have every right to your ideas and opinion as does Mr. Hulbert and anyone else who wishes to discuss this subject reasonably.
Respect for others questions and opinions, especially those who might not have the same perceived high understanding of all things Muskie, earns respect it in part. The opposite detracts.
I target big fish pretty regularly, but do not pretend I would not be honored to catch any muskie that decides to eat. I do so using an arsenal of presentations, and don't limit myself to any sized baits. I prefer to match my presentation to conditions. I have caught a few big girls, on purpose, in fact. Many were caught on baits less than 6", some on baits under 8", and a couple on baits over. What does that mean?
Have I ever taken my bait away from a 34" muskie? Sure, if I'm after a specific fish and don't want to take the time, but not because of some high moral platform or desire to keep that fish 'pure' until it gets to 44", at which time I will abuse it greatly even though it is the same fish and I will let it go anyway. Others probably catch enough numbers of smaller fish to be totally unimpressed with a 37.5" muskie, but I don't so I'm still pretty excited when one smaks a lure for me. Will I go out of my way to catch a 37.5"? Nope, but it's OK to have it happen, any muskie is a good muskie! Humor, Humor, relax. |
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Posts: 129
Location: Milwaukee Wi | I agree!!! |
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Posts: 3912
| Great thread, though maybe Reelwise got a bit too beat up.
Sometimes I'll only try for a big fish. Last fall I spent about 20 hours over a couple days dropping jigs tipped with 6" sucker minnows onto and around an old fish crib in 25'. (I had heard that the DNR and divers are aware a biggie hangs there.) I carefully added stinger hooks and all. Straight down past the transducer; watching the LCD screen I could occassionally see the muskie(s) come up to take a look then drift away. Holding the boat in place with the electric motor. Dang, I really thought I had a good plan.
Anyway, I go quality because I don't care much about quantity. (It's a good thing I'm not too demanding, because I don't boat much quality, either.)
Edited by Ranger 1/28/2007 9:02 PM
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Posts: 1530
| Musky snax. here on st clair big and small suspend over open waters. the thing here is if you get into smaller class you would notice its loose packs travelling. for big girls they suspend on open water in prime feed windows. most other times its belly down to exert less. with a depth max at 20 ft st clair is easy to figure patterns. find the bait you have found the fish. |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Thanks for the info! |
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quality or quantity????