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Posts: 157
Location: Arlington Heights, IL | 2007 PMTT Schedule - Reduced Fields & Higher Payouts for 2007!
Qualifier #1
Fox Chain 'O' Lakes, IL
April 28th & 29th, 2007
Qualifier #2
Eagle River Chain, Wisconsin
June 23rd & 24th, 2007
Qualifier #3
Cass Lake, MN
August 24th & 25th, 2007
Qualifier #4
Madison Chain, WI
September 22nd & 23rd, 2007
Ranger Boats World Championship
Cave Run Lake, Kentucky
October 20th & 21st, 2007
Check out the PMTT website for more detailed info @ www.promusky.com |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Reduced field and higher payouts sounds like you guys are on the rite track. I will have to visit the PMTT web site and check out whats new. |
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| I am glad the PMTT finally decided to lower the field sizes and increase entry fees/payouts. It is definetly a step in the right direction.
However, the dates and locations are a step in the wrong direction. The Fox Chain again? Give me a break!
They are also competing with the Minnesota Trail on the Madison and Cave Run dates. Where would you rather fish in Sept. Madison or Leech/Cass?
How about October? You can pick between Tonka or Cave? I don't think many people are going to opt to drive all the way to Cave in October. In the spring it's great, nobody can fish up north anyway. October is a different story though. Lots of good fishing to be had all over and no need to waste the gas all the way down there.
And if an angler decides they are not interested in the Championship. It kind of turns them off from fishing the whole trail as well.
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| two sense,
I'm not sure I agree with you. I think the Fox Chain is a great place for the spring opener. That time of year can be very good. Shelbyville would have been my only other choice.
Overall I think this is a very good schedule with great locations. As far as the championship in the Cave, if you talk to Greg, Tony or Crash, they will tell you it is one of the best times to be on the water. I have been on Tonka for a Championship in Oct. It was no cake walk for anyone.
As far as the drive goes to the Cave, I guess it depends where you are coming from.
If I am lucky enough to make the championship, I'll be at the Cave.
Bob Blanke |
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Posts: 8865
| I was dissapointed in last year's schedule, for the reasons everyone else was.
But this lineup? I LIKE it. I like it enough where I may have to fish it! |
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| Are you getting a boat for Xmas EA? 
You can bring it up to Olin for my backing up a boat 101 course if you do.... |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Has the PMTT changed their format or is it going to take a 48"er to qualify on Cass this year? |
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Posts: 8865
| LOL!
I think I'm getting "you need more fishing stuff like you need a hole in the head!".
But if by some miracle of God (like a suitcase full of money falls out of the sky and lands at my feet) I do wind up with a boat before next season, I will happily take you up on your offer!
We just have to pick a day when nobody is at the launch. Or on the lake. Or driving past the launch. Or even thinking about being anywhere near the launch
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Location: Watertown, MN | EA, I don't know agree with better trail than last year, I guess it is all a personal preference. Eagle again, Pete was pretty fun, a little trecherous, but brought a new element to the trail, Vermillion one of the hottest lakes this year. Cave in spring. Beside bad timing of the weather. The only bad thing about the trail this year I heard was the choice of the Fox, for the championship, and opening there this year? When most locals don't have much positive to say about a lake!
Bob, where are Greg and tony in the Fall I know Greg is north til freeze, one reason only, BIG FISH! Waiting to see the other changes?
Troyz
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Posts: 172
| Troy,
I agree....Big Fish and that's where you will see me next year in late Oct. and early Nov., but for a tournament, I see nothing wrong with the Cave in Oct. |
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Posts: 172
| Troy,
Sorry about that ...I logged in. One more thing, I know a lot of guys that said they would never fish the Pete, ever again and I am one of those. I agree Vermillion is a great spot, so is Cass. I knew the Fox Chain in Nov. was not a good choice, but late April will turn numbers.
Bob Blanke |
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Posts: 3165
| I dont think people understand how important 'Treats" question is
the 48' minnimum could have a major impact on ALL tournament fishing in MN,,Would be intresting ti hear if the PMTT has heard any clarification on this.
Edited by happy hooker 12/22/2006 6:11 AM
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Posts: 317
| Why does everyone bitch about The Fox Chain? There are good numbers and good size, so what if it doesn't give up fish easily. Isn't that the point? The cream will rise to the top no matter where an event is held. My gripe last year was "the dead carp classic" held on Pete. That was a waste. |
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| Not to take any sides... not to mention I dont even fish the PMTT.... but I like the idea of having the tournaments on waters where it is harder to catch numbers of fish. It narrows it down and you prove you are a good fisherman, and not just someone that got lucky (not that its a bad thing to get lucky sometimes) It is the PMTT, not the MMTT or the WMT. They SHOULD have tournaments held in most of the states that have muskies.
And about the Pete... Congrats to the guys that caught fish there. (you don't hear them crying) In fact, the guys that won it were probably fishing in far worst conditions than most saw that were fishing the tournament.
Edited by Reelwise 12/22/2006 10:36 PM
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Location: north central wisconsin | Pete gave up fish alot easier than the Fox, and wasn't nearly as ugly either. Man was that chain ugly. Good point above, with the cream rising above. Those that scored down there, put together a nice little pattern. Good food in the town of Antioch though, and was the highlight. I think the place was called The Lodge. Gourmet class sandwiches for typical bar food prices. I'd drive back to that place if ever down there again.
As far as the 48" size limit goes, Pete has a 45" limit and they allow 34" fish to be measured in non-transport events. Not sure about the regs in MN for this type of thing. I thought WI reverted to the statewide limit of 34" for non transport events, but then MI allowed 30" fish to be measured for the Green bay event this fall. How long has Cass had a 48" limit? We fished the Mike James mega a few years back and 40" was the tourney minimum.
Edited by Reef Hawg 12/23/2006 4:05 AM
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| I can deal with it if there it a tough bite at a PMTT event. I think a tough bite usually favors the more skilled anglers anyway.
What I don't like about the Fox is that it's not that good of a fishery anyway. Out of all the places I fished, it has to be the most boring structurally to fish. There is just not that much structure (and water for that matter) to fish. The Fox is also way too small in my opinion to have an event at. It was crowded out there with 50 boats, what's it going to be like with 125? The more crowded the lake becomes the less it favors skilled anglers and the more it boils down to who was lucky enough to be the bait in front of the fish when it decides to eat. Good bite or not how many 50 inchers will be caught there?
I would rather fish the Pete again anyday. Structurally, the Pete is much more challenging and diverse. |
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Posts: 41
| I think september is the right time to be on the mad chain.The 45 inch size limit has really done wonders here. I know many anglers who fish Madison lakes boated there personal bests this year. Lets not forget madison holds the record for most fish boated the last time there was a fall pmtt event here. |
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Posts: 227
Location: Southeast Wisconsin | WHAT?? The FCOL is an awesome spring fisheree!
From ice out-S WI opener I fish the Chain almost daily and do well enough to justify 3 hours of driving to get there and back.
One things for sure, the Chain lacks the size to accomadate a PMTT event. If Grass held some structure and the South Chain got more pressure it would work (hint hint)
The other beef I have is with the date. I think the first or second week in April would be a much better choice..
I like the mad chain in Sept..Gives me an excuse to fish it more this year..
Happy Holidays!
Ben Kueng
Guaranteed Guide Service
http://www.benkueng.com
Edited by Ben Kueng 12/23/2006 10:25 AM
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | The change goes into effect in 2007. The MN DNR doesn't change their lenght limit for tournaments. Otherwise we'd be having a 34" limit for tournaments instead of the statewide 40".
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| two sense - 12/23/2006 7:18 AM
Good bite or not how many 50 inchers will be caught there?
LOL wow. If that is why you fish you need to quit.
The Chain is a great fishery. I dont know from experience because I have only ice fished it a few times, but I have seen numerous pictures of fish over 48-50 inches caught there this year. The Fox river in Illinois isn't that bad either. The MMTT tournaments are held during the best times of the year for those bodies of water as far as both numbers and size so you cant compare the two. If you like those lakes better, dedicate your season to that trail. If you want a diff. variety of lakes, fish the PMTT and take on the challenge of a diverse field of lakes.
Edited by Reelwise 12/23/2006 11:49 AM
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| Well you can compare the two and you hit the nail on the head with the difference between them. One tournament promotor is going to the lakes that people want to fish when they want to be there. The other is going to the lakes where the tourism board's want the tournaments to be.
Ideally, (assuming all the locations are enticing) I would fish both circuits. However, with the overlap in dates, it's not possible. |
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| Reelwise -
I fish for a lot of different reason's. However, I must admit that trying to catch 50 plus incher's is a big part of it for me. I think it's a big part of what a lot of other serious anglers are after as well.
I would venture to say with a fair amount of certainty that Mille Lacs and Vermillion produce more 50 plus inch fish in a couple days than the Fox Chain has in the past 20 years.
I don't want to come across as negative toward the PMTT. They are doing some good things too. I just don't like the choice of lakes (especially the Fox Chain). It would be nice to see them get away from Cave and Eagle River once in a while too. There are other good lakes in Kentucky and Wisconsin. |
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Location: Southeast Wisconsin | Theres a reason why Eagle River and Cave Run have qualifiers every year...Your just not gonna hear it from me..LOL
Happy Holidays
Ben
www.benkueng.com |
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| It is still legal to measure fish isn't it?
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| two sense - 12/24/2006 11:26 AM
Reelwise -
I fish for a lot of different reason's. However, I must admit that trying to catch 50 plus incher's is a big part of it for me. I think it's a big part of what a lot of other serious anglers are after as well.
I would venture to say with a fair amount of certainty that Mille Lacs and Vermillion produce more 50 plus inch fish in a couple days than the Fox Chain has in the past 20 years.
I don't want to come across as negative toward the PMTT. They are doing some good things too. I just don't like the choice of lakes (especially the Fox Chain). It would be nice to see them get away from Cave and Eagle River once in a while too. There are other good lakes in Kentucky and Wisconsin.
While you may be correct, there was a conspicuous lack of big fish caught at the PMTT event at vermilion this year, so it's really just luck sometimes. The Fox Chain produces big fish. My partner boated a 49" to win the FRV Spring tourney on the Fox Chain that was so fat it was close to being a state record, upper 30#'s for sure. |
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Location: Rhinelander. | I like the schedule and been waiting for it> I would have been to not ever go back to the pete. Let me say this exception you'd have to pay me to fish it ,then maybe>
Pfeiff |
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Posts: 317
| size limit only apply if you are not keeping the fish. Since all PMTT are spot releases, and are not transport releases, then possession does not come into play.
Edited by MuskyStalker 12/25/2006 9:55 AM
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Location: Rhinelander. | Rip into the minn d.n.r. ,why? Other states have let the P.M.T.T. and other tournaments work around the size limit> Whats the big deal if they do> What does it hurt? Its nothing to get worked up about,its only a fish. I will add one that is very well cared for by anglers.
Communities pay to have events like this come to their area as they bring alot of money into the community.
Its simple if you don't like tournaments or the rules they have don't fish them. Why try to take away the enjoyment of fellow anglers!!!!!
Today there are more muskies then ever and they are released at a rate higher then ever. This is a good thing..................my glass is half full, yours half empty. We all see things differently but after fishing over a hundred tournaments I can tell you that muskies caught in them are babied. $$$$$$$rides on every point so why would anyone not handle with extreme care?
Certainly many other important issues to fight with the D.n.r over.
Pfeiff |
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| Musky Stalker -
There may have a been a lack of big fish caught and a relatively tough bite at the Vermillion event by "Vermillion standards". However, there were still four fish over 47 caught including one over 50 inches. All of the fish registered were over 40 inches. If that happened just about anywhere else (ie. the Fox or Eagle River), everyone would be talking about all of the big fish that were caught. If you added in all the sublegals that were caught, there would be even more talk about what a great bite it was (had it occurred somewhere else).
Sure, some of it boils to luck with weather and such. However, I think more of it has to do with picking a lake that has a good population of big fish and being there when they are most likely to bite. It's tough to catch big fish if there's only a few in the system. If you're there at the wrong time of year tougher still.
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| So has anyone answered Treats' question yet? Will people be able to measure and register sublegal fish on Cass next year?
Any fish that clearly won't measure at 48" doesn't even need to be netted or taken out of the water. That is how I would describe a hooked fish being "babied". |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | The MN DNR has always held that a "penned" fish waiting for a judgeboat counts as possession under the 40" regulation and I would assume the ruling would be the same when it goes to 48". That is why you can't register a sub 40" fish in ANY tournament in MN.
That's the DNR's view as has been stated to me by various people in the St.Paul office. |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | I must have missed a post that got edited or deleted that was apparently bashing the MN DNR about the 48" thing. The MMA and Muskies Inc Chapters in MN PUSHED the MN DNR for a 48" min on many of our lakes. We have seen an increase pressure (both instate and out) as well as an increase in fish getting thumped. Many of us wanted a higher limit, but were told that the 48 would pass easier and could be a stepping stone for another increase down the way. Will adjustments in tournament formats have to be made? You bet! Even our MI tournament is going to have to change some things to comply. I don't think anyone will mind if it makes the resourse better in the long run.
The MMA and DNR didn't do this because they're against tournaments. From what I've gathered, neither organization cares much either way if tournaments exist or not. Nor are there any pro tournament XYZ and anti tournament 123. What these people are for is protecting and improving the MN muskie resource. If you can't get behind that then what are you really for?
Edited by Muskie Treats 12/26/2006 12:30 PM
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Posts: 172
| Sorry Jason, but I don't agree. Here is your catch ratio per boat for the 2006 PMTT.
Eagle River 39%
Fox Chain 22%
Cave Run 15%
Vermillion 13%
Petenwell 12%
Per boat the Fox Chain gave up the 2nd most fish in one of the toughest months there is to fish it. Yea, I know we can get into a conditions battle, but congrats to the guys who caught fish on the Fox Chain. |
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| Could someone help me out with this. Seeing that I have fished in some local tournaments and nothing major, I do understand some laws and why they were created.
Size and creel limits were/are set by the DNR office to allow for the safe "HARVEST" of that fish to not hurt the population and help support a balanced and healthy fishery.
The "possession" laws were put into effect to, for the most part, eliminate culling and transporting of fish.
If I am not mistaken, judgeboat tournaments do neither. Why would someone have a problem with a fish at any length, being measure in a judgeboat format? Don't you have to measure it to know it's undersized. Aren't they basically doing the same thing, but just having someone else measure it for them. Is it against the law to have someone else measure a fish for you? Heck, I don't even think the judge measures it, that they are just there for verification. If you are saying that keeping the fish in a net at boatside is reducing it to possession, then again refer back to why the possession law/definition was put into place.
Wouldn't you rather have these organizations working for/with you on larger size limits instead of battling with them. If I am not mistaken (but I may be), the other places that the PMTT has held events in the last few years; Chippewa Flowage, Shelbyville, Petenwell, Chautauqua, Pomme de Terre, Madison, Fox Chain,etc have not made special changes for them. Because they are not keeping or transporting a fish and you do not know it is undersized until it is measured. Why were they able to do this in other locations but Minnesota will not allow this?
I for one would rather have no organizations fighting against anything that would make any fishery better. I would think fish being mis-handled by the everyday Joe's that accidentally catch them or the beginners mishandling them would be of much greater concern then some fish being kept in the water in a net for a few extra minutes.
I just don't see the big deal.
Tom Lejack |
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| Ive had a Minn dnr rep 'twice' tell me that tournaments would have to adhere to the 48' minnimum in fact the last time they told me was less then two weeks ago and their was a very well known tournament angler standing right next to me hearing it too...like I said it would be intresting to hear if the pmtt has gotten any clarification on this and what kind of formats will be allowed if any?????
Edited by happy hooker 12/26/2006 2:55 PM
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Location: Watertown, MN | I was there when Hooker was talking to the DNR, and it was their interpetation the fish under 48" would not be allowed to be measured. That was his interpetation of the law. So it is up to them to make the ruling, we are just looking for the final ruling from the State of MNDR on this law. I don't think anyone has an issue with the PMTT judgeboat format just how they will rule on the new 48" limit and it impact on events.
Backlash, interesting numbers but to say the Fox kicked out the 2nd most fish is a big overstatement is comparing apples to oranges. Take Weather conditions of each event into consideration, and size limits.
Cave- 19 fish 130 anglers--3 over 40", 6 under 34"--Weather severe coldfront, post tornado, freezing rain, temp drop 30+ degrees, my bowmount was frozen in the bracket
Petenwell- 13 fish 113 anglers-- 4 over 40", how many 30-34" that could not be registered, Major cold front, Lowest Barometric pressure reading in the Month of May in the History of WI
Eagle--54 fish 140 anglers, atleast 7 over 40", how many 30-34", severe storms kept most of the water the first hour
Vermillion--15 fish 120 anglers, 14 over 40", 1 over 50", how many caught release from 30-40", cold front, high winds
Fox- 11 fish 50 anglers(The TOP 50 of the Trail), 3 over 40", 2 under 34", first event with stable weather, yes toghter time of the year
The big thing about the Fox that was mentioned above, is the lack of structure, very boring lake to fish, crowded with only 50 boat, put another 75 and it will be like 10 boats trying to fish a swimming pool. I am guessing the lake in the early season will fish smaller than late fall, with the lack of open water trolling going on(not sure, just a guess). Just my opinion that it is not a great choice for event this size, I like to see the field a little more spread out, and room to fish. For the 2 days of the event you were always fish with atleast 2 boats in casting distance of you. Where the winning team caught fish, had 10-20 boats fighting for the same spot, now add 75 more boats. Plus there were not event boats out there, and I would suspect in the spring you will see more non-event angler, due to warmer weather, also WI not being open.
Troyz
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| Troy,
We could go back and forth on this for a while. The Fox Chain only had one fish under 34 inches in post turn over. (Kevin Nash) I agree, not a real pretty place to fish. Ratio of over 40 inches was as strong as 75% of the 2006 events. Spring conditions will be different and a lot of anglers who know the Chain will go south and yes it still will be tight, but no more then 75% of the field on Catfish in Eagle River or Lithia Bay in Shelbyville. Spring will bring a lot more options. Weeds, breaks and open water. As I said before, not a great place for the Championship, but it will turn some numbers and some size for the opener. Our spring club tournament has alwas had some very nice fish caught. Don't get me wrong, it's not Tonka, but we can't fish there in the spring. |
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| My mistake...2 fish under 34 |
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| So, let me get this straight. The contestant/judge measures a fish and it is not 48", you cannot count this? The fish was measured and it is over 48" and this counts. Besides size, what is the difference here an out, besides jotting some info/details down on paper after the release? I don't get it.
Tom |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Tommy, bring it up with the DNR as nobody here has the power to do anything about it. I think their answer is that they expect that most anglers know if that fish is legal before the judge is called over.
If you look at any of the walleye tournaments in MN you'll see that they all have to abide by the slot limits as well and it's on them if the fish doesn't measure. In fact in the PWT, if you bring in a fish out of the slot I think you get DQ'd and a citation is written.
Edited by Muskie Treats 12/26/2006 3:57 PM
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Location: N Illinois | I wont debate whether the dnr interpretation is right or wrong. I personlly dont care. I have a hypothetical question. The way I interpret this blog, is if a fish is under the legal size limit, it is considered possesion if one measures a fish. So if I am on my yearly vacation to minnesota, and i catch lets say a 38 incher ( I know, there arent any this small in minnesota) and it's obvious that this fish is not 48 inches. If I net this fish and measure it that would be possesion. That is how i am interpreting this. The rule must apply to all, not just someone fishing a tournament. Lac Seul is mentioned. That lake is total release. With the same mentality, any fish netted and or measured should be considered in possesion and deemed illegal. Just my 2cents worth. |
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| I have fished lac seul 4 times and we always net, measure and take pictures of the fish and I have never once thought of that as somehow being in violation of the C&R law?
I wouldn't think measuring a fish then letting it go would be interpreted as somehow in my possesion? maybe not? anyone know for sure? |
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Location: Watertown, MN | Musky99
Possesion is not netting, photo release. they are considering it possesion I believe when a boat has the fish in the net, and the angler is calling and waiting for a judgeboat. The fact that the angler is not immeadiately releasing the fish, and holding it in their possesion, this were the DNR consider it possesion. Like shawn said this was interpetation from DNR to us, and we are waiting to see what the decision has been made.
Troyz |
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| If judge boat tourneys get an exception on the 48' Im wondering why didnt they go for it first time around on the 40' and try to get sub 40' fish to qualify like in other states |
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| I applauded the MN DNR for being progressive in terms of less fish handling and it gets deleted! You guys are funny! LOL |
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| With regards to the posession issue I think that Troy is about the fish being in posession while in a net awaiting a judge boat. The obvious solution to this is require the pictures on a bump board like the Hartman tournaments do. This is fast, efficient and very reliable.
Mark |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Cfollow,
You said more than just that. As with any subject here at MuskieFIRST, no personal bashing, no rude or overtly aggressive commentary, etc. will be published. If you wish to applaud the MNDNR, please do! |
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| Might as well hold every muskie tournament in Minnesota...  |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Guest hit it....it's not that every fish that hits a net is in possession, it's holding (penning) the fish to wait for a judge boat that constitutes possession. I too see nothing wrong with the MDNR's regs if that's the case. My question to the PMTT is this. Why isn't 2 fish a day good enough to determine a winning team? |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | I'm not looking forward to being CROWDED on the fox chain again in 2007, and that is whats going to happen.... 125 boats in such a small area can't be good.
Cave Run in oct. isn't a bad place to be unless you live in MN.
Madison Chain I've never fished but sounds like alot like Tonka with out the bigger fish.
Cass Lake, well its Cass and WILL crank out the bigger fish of the trail.....
As usual it will be a challenge and a great time for sure, later
Jerome |
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Location: Rhinelander. | Is there a law that says I cannot a measure a fish I catch unless its 48 inches on this lake? NO!!!!!! I can measure any fish I catch as long as I don't take poss. of it if its under 48. I don't think any d.n.r. can stop you from measureing a fish> they may not give you a permitt again if you ran a tournament against what they would like to see.
I don't think puting a ruler to these fish in the tournament has much of a bad impact on the fishery at all.
The d.n.r in wisconsin and minnesota need to wake up and realize the muskie clubs and anglers are doing their job for them> We raise hundreds of thousands dollars for stocking and lake improvements. Most tournament anglers belong to a club> If they they get enough of these anglers and clubs upset with them they could certainly lose that support. In wisconsin with the d.nr wanting to collect tournament fees from anglers they have gotten close. The d.n.r in both states is darn good at shooting themselves in the foot!!!!!!!!!
Pfeiff
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| Gander Mt Guide - 12/27/2006 3:27 PM
Why isn't 2 fish a day good enough to determine a winning team?
I understand after a team catches there two fish in Wisconsin they are done fishing the rest of the tournament... correct?
If so... say a team is on the water for a total of 20 minutes and already boat two fish. They have to quit...? They have time to put more fish in the boat. Instead, they have to sit back and watch two other guys win it by putting two bigger fish in the boat with 20 minutes left in the tournament.
A lot of people say a muskie is a muskie... so how much better is a 44 incher than a 42 incher? I think the number of fish is just as good as how long the fish are.
Time to sleep now... forever. Then wake and and go fishing!  |
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| Looks like kill tournaments are the only option in Minnesota! They are still legal. |
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The new law doesn't prevent you from measuring fish, just keeping it in your possesion until a judge boat comes.
Perhaps the digital formats will be the way to go in this case. Hartman has used them with great success.
Don, you hit the nail on the head. If you don't like tournies, don't fish them. If it bothers you that you can't register a sub-48" fish in a tourney, than don't fish it.
It was a great victory to get these size limits increased. Tournaments will just have to adjust, or go somewhere else.
Besides, why not have a 48" minimum tourney, it just makes it tougher.
Maybe some people don't want the challenge!
JS |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Funny how the only people complaining about MN's new reg's are people that don't live in MN. Hmmmmmmm........ |
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Location: Watertown, MN | Reelwise,
You can register more that 2 fish in WI, unless it is a transport tournament like the WMT. WI rule consider it possesion when you place a fish in the livewell and transport it to the registration station. PMTT winners on Eagle had 6 fish.
Don
Like John said the law does not stop you from measuring fish. But in MN, holding a fish in the net waiting for a judgeboat is considered possession under current laws or interpatation of it, They make the rules we must follow. The DNR is not worried about events coming to MN, the money that comes into the areas has very little impact on improving the local fishery. The MN chapters are all for the higher size limits to keep the fishery in current state, we do not want to see overharvest, and see a decline in our fishery. 300-500 anglers participate in the PMTT each year, in the Twin Cities chapter we have almost twice the membership. Based on the our member that fish the trail, less than 1% participate, so not a huge influence when you look at it that way.
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| Has anybody thought about the positives,,if the 48' means that tourneys have to switch from Judege boats to digital think how much money will be saved by not hiring Judgeboats,,you could spread that money out over the contestants payouts or a contribution to the local resource or a combo.somebody better mastermind something because size limits are not gonna go down but up,,I can see a push for 54' on the big lakes in the future |
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| Digital?
I want to believe it can be run in such a way where it's not possible to cheat, but considering the payouts, someone will find a way.
I think most are glad to see the 48" size limit passed, but it still presents a lot of challenges when it comes to tournaments. The PMTT is either going to have to change the way they structure their tournaments, or the DNR is going to have to make some exception in what constitutes "posession" for judge boat tournaments.
Somebody has to bend on this one, or MN will have to be somewhere you don't have the PMTT. How do you calculate standings, or structure payouts when there are only 2 legal fish caught? Or no legal fish caught at all?
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| The issue of whether or not a fish suffers in the net waiting for a judge boat verses if the fish is suffering being taken out mearsured and photographed has been beaten to death. But I fail to see this vast difference between to two formats. If 48" is the minimum how can you verify it?? The Hartman Metro format seems to be the worst format anywhere. Since you have to get another boat to verify the length. How do you do that if there is not a boat in shouting distance?? Many contestants transport the fish to the closest boat or call someone they know is on the lake and have them run over and verify the fish.
Isn't that the worst possible format?? Won't that be Illegal in 2007. They also have a catagory for fish under 40"'s, isn't that illegal?? These contestants are measuring fish under 40"s and photographing.
It just amazes me how one format is a fish killer, and a photo tournament is just fine. especially when the photo tournament does not verify that the fish survived.
I say get rid of all the tournaments. This thread has proven that tournaments do nothing but hurt the resource, the money contributed in so small that nobody needs it, and it brings additional preasure to already over crowded waters. Camera, judgeboat, honesty rules, it's all doing nothing but hurting the resource so get rid of all of them.
If you have camera tournaments every year instead of judgeboat tournaments, what difference will you see on the water??
If anything, you will have more tournaments because the main reason the PMTT does not visit Mille Lacs, and Leech is because of the possible waves conditions that judge boats would have to battle. If a camera tournament is OK by MN DNR standards, It opens up everything!
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| Troyz. - 12/28/2006 9:43 AM
Reelwise,
You can register more that 2 fish in WI, unless it is a transport tournament like the WMT. WI rule consider it possesion when you place a fish in the livewell and transport it to the registration station. PMTT winners on Eagle had 6 fish.
I figured thats what GMG was pointing towards, the WMT tournaments. |
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Location: Ogden, Ut | Don Pfeiffer - 12/27/2006 10:28 PM
The d.n.r in wisconsin and minnesota need to wake up and realize the muskie clubs and anglers are doing their job for them
Pfeiff
I'm sure they will be glad to hear that. That should free up some time to kick back with their feet up or tool around in their fancy 4WD trucks.
Boy, that's a great way to create friends and influence people... 
S. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion |
Could it be that the PMTT officals are still talking with the Mndnr concerning the Cass Lake event for lower than the 48"size limits??
Its still a 100% C&R tourney. Perhaps the PMTT is asking for a varience??? Nothing is up on their web site concerning the size limit yet.
Come on PMTT tell us whats happening with the size limits for Cass.......
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Eguddal,
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you are dead wrong.
Muskies Inc was BUILT on competition ( Lunge Log? Club Junior, Senior, Ladies, and Guide divisions?) and club tournaments, one of the largest of which is held in Minnesota. Remove the competition, and you lose much of why many Muskie conservation groups exist, and eliminate their incredibly effective support for the Muskie fisheries across the country.
You speak as if Muskies are horribly fragile, easily killed critters, and that just plain isn't true, either. Handled as Mr. Hartman does, with a by- the- team measure and picture, which, by the way, has been carefully designed to stop any potential 'cheating' (not going to tell how, let's just say it works well) and actually doesn't create any additional handling than most would for a simple non tournament CPR.
'This thread has proven that tournaments do nothing but hurt the resource, the money contributed in so small that nobody needs it, and it brings additional pressure to already over crowded waters.'
This thread did nothing of the sort, that's ridiculous. In testimony before the WIDNR recently, the Eagle River Chamber of Commerce stated that Muskie Tournaments in Eagle River bring 1.6 MILLION PROVEN dollars to the local economy EVERY YEAR. Like amounts were testified to by other area chambers. That equates out to a multiplier effect of many times that amount.
I believe that it has BEEN competitive angling that has forwarded the cause of CPR, brought the sport to the forefront and added thousands of new Muskie anglers and the support they bring to the expansion of management of muskies everywhere. Your comment logically leads to an eventual banning of muskie angling all together, since pressure by non tournament anglers has a MUCH larger impact than that of tournaments. Read any yearly creeling survey on any water those are kept for the data.
These are FISH, not children.
'
It just amazes me how one format is a fish killer, and a photo tournament is just fine. especially when the photo tournament does not verify that the fish survived.'
The anglers out there bought a license, just like you. They have every right to go fishing on any given day and fish within the legal boundaries of each State DNR's regulations. If they decide to bet other anglers they can catch more and larger fish on that day, who are you to say they cannot do that? That, in essence, is what a tournament is.
There is absolutely NO biological evidence that tournaments have an adverse effect on the Muskie, Walleye, or Bass fisheries, and that is a fact. NONE! The impact is so small it is insignificant, and that is directly from the Wisconsin DNR. Fact is, transport Muskie events have NOT been proven to be 'fish killers', to the contrary, it seems most fish in the transport tournaments held over the years DO survive, and that the percentage of fish that die later has not been proven significantly higher in those events than it is in Judge Boat events. Changes in the venue going to judge boats and other formats are driven by SOCIAL pressures, not biological issues. As we, as Muskie anglers, become more conservative and less reality based, this will probably continue until Reality and Extremism collide. That happened right here, IMHO.
'I say get rid of all the tournaments. This thread has proven that tournaments do nothing but hurt the resource, the money contributed in so small that nobody needs it, and it brings additional preasure to already over crowded waters. Camera, judgeboat, honesty rules, it's all doing nothing but hurting the resource so get rid of all of them.'
I say, we should ban you, your friends, and all the other anglers out there creating 'already overcrowded waters', and save the fish for ME.
Sounds pretty selfish and awful elitist, doesn't it?
So WHAT if a photo or judge boat tournament on Mille Lacs is Ok'd? Mr. Hartman already holds events there. So does Muskies Inc.
The State DNR and those who run tournaments will come to terms as they will in Wisconsin and everywhere there might be controversy.
Sorno,
Excellent point, sir. Remarks like the one you reacted to, and those reflected above have a negative effect on the debate, add no actual facts or substance, and are argumentative without actual substance. Emotion sometimes gets the best of us all, but it would be wise to THINK about what is on the screen before hitting the submit button. |
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Worth repeating... |
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| Steve,
Your obviously missing my sarcism on this issue. I'm trying to point out how silly it is to protest one version of a live release tournament and crucify the others. I agree with your comments,
Devils Advocate |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It was pretty easy to miss... |
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Location: Watertown, MN | STeve and Sorno great post.
Yes the law is not officially signed yet, but it is to become law in 07. Just a bill on capital hill!!!!!!!!
No one is stating that judgeboat format is bad for the fish, or that Hartmans format is any better. They are both different and have some positive and negatives. The big issue is the MDNR official position on possession, and what they have stated in the past, and what they will do in 2007. They have not in the past issued variance for tournaments in the state, my guess is they do not want to set a precedance, because you allow one, you must allow others, and that is only more paperwork for officials, instead of being out enforcing laws, and working on improving the resources.
So time will tell, again this law was to protect the future of musky fishing, not be anti-tourn, PMTT vs Hartman format as some have made it to be. It is going to be how tournament promoter and local clubs will have to abide by the new law, and what impact it will have on us.
Troyz |
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| tournament permits for the comming year have to be in and approved by Dec,,maybe the fair thing to do is allow judge boat tourneys in 07 to get an exception to the 48' has the law wasnt known yet at time of application,then in 08 if they apply the 48 has to be used |
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Location: Rhinelander. | I don't mean to offend either the minn. d.n.r or wisconsins but facts are facts. They have to look at all the help and benifits they have gotten due to the fishing clubs. They I am sure will even say how the clubs have been a great benifit to them. I am just saying don't bite the hand that feeds you.
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| The proposed 48" minimum was posted on all the lakes effected this summer at all boat landings, by law the DNR must post this information and hold public meetings, I believe they must give 1 year notice before the changes can take effect. So to say the changes were not known untill recently isn't going to fly with the DNR.
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Location: Ogden, Ut | Don Pfeiffer - 12/28/2006 3:58 PM
I don't mean to offend either the minn. d.n.r or wisconsins but facts are facts. They have to look at all the help and benifits they have gotten due to the fishing clubs. They I am sure will even say how the clubs have been a great benifit to them. I am just saying don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Pfeiff
Don,
I don't think they're really offended, but it might be better to put some things in the 'big picture' perspective. You say that the DNRs are getting all this help from clubs, yet who ULTIMATELY benefits? The DNRs or the anglers? I don't believe that it's as altruistic as you like to infer. I'm reasonably sure that there's a whole lot of biologists out there that wouldn't give a tinker's darn (family site) about muskies and whether or not you and I could ever go get one. Face it, muskies (and more importantly) muskie anglers, are difficult at best to manage. It's a low return for high investment program. So yes, I'm sure they appreciate the help (and truly, some portions of the programs would have to be sacrificed without it), but to say that you are basically 'doing their job' probably doesn't sit all that well with some of them. The muskie anglers certainly aren't busying themselves sampling panfish, walleyes, catfish, trout, salmon and assorted non-sport fish. They probably aren't commenting on all sorts of environmental impacts affecting fisheries that cross the biologists desks daily, nor are they likely to be analyzing data, writing reports and making management recommendations on the throngs of waters that have no muskies even in them.
I would hazard a guess that if every person that fishes EXCLUSIVELY for muskies would just quietly disappear, the revenues from license sales would hardly even be felt in either state (Wisconsin might be different, the cultural aspect of the muskie fisheries are hard to gauge). Trophy predator fisheries are basically luxuries that many states only are able to marginally afford. And the people that utilize them are exceedingly difficult to please. For instance:
CPR or keep it if legal?
Tournament or no tournament?
Judge boat or transport?
34", 36", 40" 44", 48" 50" 54" minimum or completely C & R?
one line or 2? or 3?
season or no?
ice fish or no?
bait or atrificials?
quick strike or swallow?
trolling or 'position fishing'?
and really how big is the world record?
This thread is even evidence of people's inability to agree on even the most inconsequential elements of muskie angling (where a tournament circuit should occur)
And I sincerely apologize for hijacking it.
So who's actually biting and who's actually feeding?
S. |
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| I don't mean to offend either the minn. d.n.r or wisconsins but facts are facts. They have to look at all the help and benifits they have gotten due to the fishing clubs. They I am sure will even say how the clubs have been a great benifit to them. I am just saying don't bite the hand that feeds you.
actually, it's not the DNR who has to realize anything, as they're not the ones "benefitting" from the hard work the muskie clubs do.
it's you, it's me, it's us that has to realize these things because it's us that's benefitting.
we're the consumer.
WE are the ones who benefit from the hard work the fishing clubs do.
WE are the ones who benefit from the hard work the DNR does...and without the DNR carrying the majority of the load, the club efforts would be drops in the bucket.
don't bite the hand that feeds you indeed!
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| lol...sorno, you're too fast for me!
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| sworrall, you nailed it.
Is it the same people that are against tournaments that hardly do anything to help the fishery? Just wondering... I talk to a lot of people that are against tournaments or any kind of contest when it comes to fishing. They don't belong to any clubs or anything and don't share any info. with anyone. Kinda selfish...eh? |
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| Like I said earlier. The "possession" laws were put into effect to, for the most part, eliminate culling and transporting of fish. I do not understand because judge boat tourney's do neither. Again, I am not fighting for or against these things, just trying to understand their reasoning. What happens if you don't measure a fish and you are holding it in your net. Are you breaking the law if it's undersized and don't know it yet? Is there a law in MN that states that all fish must be immediately measured once it is netted? Is there a law in the MN state fishing reg's that states something along the lines that all anglers must carry a measuring devise to immediately measure all fish once they are netted?
Nice debate over all, if nothing else.
Tom Lejack |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Pfeiff, it's the clubs that want the 48" limit and brought it to the DNR. It was a unanimous decision to have them pass it when brought to the MMA. |
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| What exactly does this mean for the PMTT anglers?
Will there be concessions made for sub 48" fish to be registered and scored? As it relates to tournament fishing in general, what happens if we move to a 52" or 54" size limit down the road?
@ $600 per team plus all the other costs of travelling, what would the incentive be to actually fish a tournament knowing the outcome would likely be that none of the teams scored, and the standings didn't change?
Who gets the $20,000?
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Steve;
You state that tournaments have no effect on muskies, walleyes, bass etc.
In MN, it has been documented that very high mortality rates occur in bass and walleye tournaments when temps are high, and off-site weigh ins are used.
These results have been used to improve the tournament process and bring down those rates significantly. I'm not sure what biology you are using to claim that there is no negative effect, but that is not true.
As far as tournaments briging in Millions of dollars, that would only be true if no other revenue were to be seen without tournaments. Tournament anglers displace other tourism, they don't replace it. I also find it very had to believe that a few hundred, or even a 1000 people could generate even close to that. In Detroit Lakes, we have a music festival which attracts 40,000 people for 4 days. Local economy estimates are about the same as you state for muskie tournaments in Eagle River.
Your conclusions are seen only from the perspective of the tournament supporter, and really don't reflect the whole picture.
I would love to see the biological data from WI that reflects no impact on a fishery due to tournaments. Perhaps this is coming from the same WI biologists ,that are fueling No More Muskies in MN with data that says muskie stocking will hurt all fisheries populations in a lake. This is completely contradictory to MN fisheries experts, and most other WI experts as well.
Point being you can find science to refute global warming, that smoking causes cancer or anything you want to if you look hard enough.
Bottom line, MN fisheries come first, and MN tournaments second. Tournaments can adapt, just like anglers have to adapt to reg changes.
JS
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| Example of single tournament economic impact: (see page 11 for summary)
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/fish/fishingtournaments/Bassmasters...
What the WI DNR is doing to study the biological impact of tournament fishing:
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/fish/fishingtournaments/Study%20Pla... |
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Location: N Illinois | What's a winter season without the annual tourney, anti tourney argument. How long till opening day? |
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Location: Watertown, MN | Musky99
MN is still open, weather warming, rain is coming, metro lakes may open up who nows. Rivers are still open.
Troyz
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | addict,
That is about 1/10th of the story of what's happening here in Wisconsin. We discussed this extensively a few weeks back, as you are aware.
The WIDNR sat at the Podium in Rhinelander just a few weeks ago and stated CLEARLY there was NO appreciable negative biological impact on the Wisconsin fisheries from tournaments. I asked them that question during my testimony directly, and received that same response.
The reason the DNR has to follow the protocol you see in the document posted is really pretty simple; the Legislature dropped an unfunded mandate on the DNR to mediate a water use dispute between lake property owners, activists, and others and those who fish in, run, and observe competitive angling events. The dispute is NOT about biological impact, see my comment above.
Mr. Skarie,
First, I'd suggest you look further into the impact of competitive angling on the overall fishery, including the lakes hosting events. You and I are talking about different things, as should be obvious. You are talking about the mortality rate of released tournament caught fish SPECIFICALLY, not the actual impact of same on the overall fishery. OF COURSE studies on mortality in the past have improved delayed mortality rates after tournaments; DNRs from states all across the country work closely with Tournament organizations to see to just that. Tournament regulations for the competitors have changed to increase successful release, obviously. Most events that use off site weigh ins during high temps are now 'kill' events as suggested by the DNR's. Sheesh, talk about spin.
Name me ONE muskie tournament in Minnesota where there is an off site weigh in.
Tournament anglers do not displace other tourists during an event or during the prefish, that's ridiculous. The room they rent has to be available, that table they sit at for dinner needs to be open, the gas they buy has to be available, etc.
I won't even BEGIN to discuss non tournament pressure VS that of tournaments, but that is a reality I suggest you look into. Fact is, Guides probably are FAR more responsible for delayed mortality after CPR than all the tournaments put together, and they are certainly no less and no more concerned for the welfare of the fish. Minnesota allows ANYONE to Guide, without even asking for a license fee. Wisconsin charges a fee and accepts out of state guides, maybe that would be a good source of revenue to help manage the muskie and walleye fisheries over there.
I know of one guide who's clients released over 200 fish this year. One guide CPR'd more fish than an entire tournament circuit registered.
MI has ACTIVELY forwarded fishing competition for decades, and continues to do so as both a fund raiser and promotional venue.
Third, the figures the DNR gave us on delayed mortality match those of other states, including MN. I have no idea what you are talking about with the 'No more muskies' comments, none of the biologists I know in Wisconsin subscribe to what you are suggesting.
Fourth, the economic impact of competitive angling has been very carefully proven. It was Chambers of Commerce and like organizations that testified in the recent WI hearings to the exact dollar impact, and they are not, despite your accusations/implications, lying or exaggerating. I bet those folks don't really give a rats hinder whether you agree, those are the indisputable facts. I was able also to confirm like accounts from folks like the In Fisherman Professional Walleye Trail and FLW Tour, and the cities hosting the events. The Chambers were not discussing single events, they were talking about a season, sir.
Fifth, I believe I said almost the same thing in my post as your last statement.
Sixth, what makes anyone think the fish UNDER 48" won't be caught, netted, and released? Whether they are allowed to be used as a scoring fish or not, those fish will be caught and released and delayed mortality will occur, just exactly as it does from CPR from all other Muskie anglers.
As to this:
'Your conclusions are seen only from the perspective of the tournament supporter, and really don't reflect the whole picture.'
That's hooey. My comments are based from reality and source information from the agencies, organizations, and anglers involved, not emotional rhetoric. If tournaments damaged the fisheries as you imply, the DNR's would not permit them.
The resource belongs to us all, and will be carefully managed by the state DNR fisheries folks in reflection of that simple fact. When special interest group emotion gets in the way of good fisheries management (something that every fisheries manager I have talked with to date tells me is one of their major stumbling blocks in implementing sound management policy) as has happened here in Wisconsin, one can only hope the 'whole picture' can be accurately and reasonably discussed before any changes based on rhetoric and emotion are forced on us all. I trust the MNDNR has less of that sort of thing than our WIDNR does working with the Conservation Congress.
And I personally think the PMTT schedule is just fine. Challenging waters, numbers and the possibility of a big fish, and good community support. |
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| I don't know how much of an economical impact I have fishing tournaments. But I do know I have a #*^@ good time! And always come home broke!
See you guys at the ATM before the next tournament! |
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| sworrall,
"If they decide to bet other anglers they can catch more and larger fish on that day, who are you to say they cannot do that? That, in essence, is what a tournament is."
I usually agree with sworrall, but not with this statement that you made earlier. Betting in WI is illegal and I do not think you should be inferring that tournament fishing could possibly be an illegal activity in WI. Tournament fishing is under enough pressure already without it being called betting.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Give me a break. 'Betting', as in placing your tournament entry in and fishing an event and betting you can catch more fish than the rest of the field isn't even close to illegal, so take it elsewhere. I was using an analogy, and not at your pleasure.
That's EXACTLY what this is, a legal bet. Not only that, but ALL the contestants in most Muskie events are fishing for a smaller than paid in portion of THEIR ENTRY FEES, usually 80% and in some cases(do the math) less.
And I still think the PMTT Schedule for 2007 looks OK. |
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| Rick Hess - 12/30/2006 5:43 AM
I don't know how much of an economical impact I have fishing tournaments. But I do know I have a #*^@ good time! And always come home broke!
See you guys at the ATM before the next tournament!
I'm with you man. They are fun
The same people complaining about tournaments are probably the same people that have never even fished one.
They don't hurt the fishery anymore than a months worth of angling pressure (people fishing for fun and people fishing for keeps) Thats just the way I see it. Most of the people fishing them are like you and me... take the right steps in order for a successful release. Its not like we have the fish sitting at the bottom of the boat waiting for the judge boat!
Get over it. |
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| I'm with you man. They are fun
So if tournaments are for the fun of it, what difference would a 48" min. make?
That's what this thread started out as, not the usual "Pro /Anti tournament" discussion.
Dave Mendel |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Actually, this thread started as a commentary on the PMTT 2007 Schedule. Nothing wrong with the discussion taking a few U turns, that's the way conversation goes. |
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| Steve,
I stand corrected. I had to go back myself to see how this started. Again the tournament debate always seems to take over these discussions. The Minn. DNR and the MMA have had the foresite to increase our size limits to help protect the resource. Minn. has been the front runner in Muskie managment, and it shows by the number of out of state license plates at the public accesses. So why is it that when a Minn. Muskie issue comes up on these boards, that most of the complaining and suggestion are made by the non-residents?
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Tournament angler cerainly do displace tourism of non-tournament anglers. How can they not?
People who don't want to fish in the Twin Cities tourney in Sept. avoid the lakes involved, they go elsewhere.
I personaly know many anglers who now don't fish Cass in Sept. anymore because of all the tournaments there in the past few years.
If there were no tournaments to fish, anglers would still go fishing. Money would still be spent, there wouldn't be an economic catastrophe.
Ecomomic studies often show what people want them too. I didn't accuse anyone of lying, but numbers can be mis-leading if not looked at from all angles.
You can believe what you want too, but tournament anglers don't contribute anymore to a local economy than other tourists do. With the quality of fishing in MN, we have no problems getting good tourism without cash prizes to entice them.
Tournaments do far less damage to our resources now than they used to, and that is because they have been regulated, not because of the tournament promoters/participants.
Further regulations are not a bad thing, and to imply that tournaments are in the forefront of C&R is a big stretch. Some are, but very few have done anything to improve without being told to.
Of course sub-40" fish will be caught and measured. Nobody ever said they wouldn't.
Doesn't bother me a bit if they can't be held until a judge boat comes. Aside from the guys participating in the tourney, nobody else will care either.
Adapt to the regs, or quit having them, plain and simple.
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| Tournament angler cerainly do displace tourism of non-tournament anglers. How can they not?
i'm doubtful that a hotel or restaurant really cares who it is filling up their business and spending money. a hotel can only rent as many rooms as they have...doesn't matter to them if it's a tournament participant or a regular fisherman.
People who don't want to fish in the Twin Cities tourney in Sept. avoid the lakes involved, they go elsewhere.
I personaly know many anglers who now don't fish Cass in Sept. anymore because of all the tournaments there in the past few years.
imho, frequent tournaments in a certain area likely do result in other people going elsewhere at that time. but then again...to the local economy they're still getting customers eating and sleeping and buying gas; they're just different customers. it's only a problem if the tournaments drive away more people than they bring in - and i haven't seen any numbers that suggest that's the case.
when a tournament or other event comes to an area during a non-peak time of the year, it really boosts the local economy. without the 150-person Petenwell tourney every mid-May there would be about 120 less people renting hotel rooms in Wisconsin Rapids (Todd's done some research on this and presented it to the local Chamber of Commerce). or look at Presque Isle when MuskieFirst showed up in late October!
You can believe what you want too, but tournament anglers don't contribute anymore to a local economy than other tourists do.
nor do they cause it to decrease, as you're suggesting.
Tournaments do far less damage to our resources now than they used to, and that is because they have been regulated, not because of the tournament promoters/participants.
Paul Hartman's system is not a result of regulation!
he's a promoter and he's setting the example for responsibly using and sharing the resource.
if regulations (such as size limits) push other tournaments to be equally responsible with their use, i'm glad for those regulations.
Aside from the guys participating in the tourney, nobody else will care either.
there's actually a large number of non-participants who follow tournament result. they seem to care.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mr. Skarie,
I quoted actual data and gave the source, you, your opinion.
The testimony given during the DNR hearings here was SPECIFIC to muskie events and money brought in as a result. The Chambers testifying were speaking to what those events brought in, and were VERY direct to the point they have NOTHING they feel will fill the void if those events went elsewhere, hence, they are very insistent that they be able to host events as in the past. Many events mentioned were at the same time as other community events and promotions.
Look at the Mercury Marine National Walleye Tournament statistics. Or don't, it may so strongly contradict your statements as to cause you to have to think about what you are claiming.
MI __________STARTED______ CPR in the Muskie world and propagated that ethic through support from Industry leaders like Mercury Marine. How? The club and International contests, and club tournaments like the Eagle River Spring and Fall events, the Hayward event, the Milwaukee event, the now famous and huge Twin Cities Chapter event and dozens more. It may be you are just too jaded or poorly tempered to see what competitive angling has done for CPR, general awareness of the resource, conservation ethics, growth of the sport, and more, but arguing this with you is a waste of energy so I'll let the facts speak for themselves. Every time you take a cast on hundreds of Muskie waters across the country, you have a GREAT chance of catching a hog originally stocked by a MI club in concert wit the local DNR. The money that bought that fish in many cases was raised through a competitive event.
You make it out to be DNR's across the country having to slap those nasty upstart tournament promoters into line forcing conservation ethics upon them to save the fisheres from certain disaster. FAHHH! That, sir, is garbage.
I don't really care one way or the other if you like tournaments or not, but I DO care if you post inaccurate information about their impact.
Your comment that tournament anglers displace other tourists who would spend the same amount of money is just plain wrong. Give In Fisherman a call, or the FLW with Jim Kalkofen or Charlie Moore at In Fisherman, or Mar Dorn at FLW.
Maybe give Todd Forcier a call, he and his associates raised over $5000 last year alone at the Petenwell event, and ALL that money raised every year goes back to stocking the system with Muskies. Bet that call never gets dialed.
And I STILL think the PMTT schedule looks good.... |
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2007 PMTT Schedule