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| The only other lure that has a worse hooking percentage other than topwaters is a bulldawg in my opinion.. Does anyone make any modifications to increase their hooking percentage? Any other modifications to the bulldawg that I can mess around with this winter would be appreciated too.. |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Madison, WI | I've seen cutting off the back hook and replacing it with a larger hook. Talk to agrimm, has a soft plastic manic!! |
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| bad hooking percentage???? that is not the case as far as I'm concerned...I bet I boat 95% of the fish that hit a dawg...one thing you gotta do is set the hook well with them...they are soft plastic so you gotta move the bait to get the hooks firmly planted... |
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Posts: 427
Location: Wausau | I replace the split rings and both hooks. I replace with a 5/0 Gamakatsu up front and 6/0 Musky Innovations on back...have not lost a fish with the changes. Wait, I did lose one that ripped the rear hook wire straight and the hook just slid off. But after further inspection, I think I bought a defected one, b/c the wire just ended and did not wrap around itself like the other ones. I also have pulled the rear wire through the top of the dawg and attached a new split ring and hook. Works great along sand flats so the back half and tail can drag along the bottom and leave a nice dust cloud with out getting snagged. I also have had success coloring them with RIT clothing dye or a sharpie marker. I took an old 7 strand that was too beat up to fix and replaced the tail with a paddle tail from those rubber fish baits and even caught a fish.
With rubber and a sodering iron there are a lot of possibilities. |
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Posts: 313
Location: On your favorite spot | How do you retrieve it? I usually use a lift and drop (working with rod) in shallow water or stop and go (using the reel) in deeper water. Both retrieves work and let you feel the fish (almost always on the pause) so that you can crank down and set the hook. I've never had trouble feeling a fish or getting a good set doing this.
As always, make sure hooks are sticky sharp
Edited by Marc J 12/13/2006 4:28 PM
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Posts: 2893
Location: Yahara River Chain | bn - 12/13/2006 3:11 PM
bad hooking percentage???? that is not the case as far as I'm concerned...I bet I boat 95% of the fish that hit a dawg...one thing you gotta do is set the hook well with them...they are soft plastic so you gotta move the bait to get the hooks firmly planted...
Here's a good reason to buy a left side crank if you are right handed. Faster & harded hooksets with your dominate arm. |
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| Andy you must be talking about the regular dawg hooks as the ones that come on mag dawgs are already pretty big...I don't feel the need to upsize the reg dawg hooks....maybe one size up would not hurt but don't feel it's needed. I think most people miss or lose fish on dawgs because of sally *ss hooksets...
there is no bad way to retrieve a dawg...my retrieve varies on depth I'm in, water temp, mood of the fish..it usually starts with pulls to each side with pauses and I go from there...
in the last 2 years the dawg is in my top 3 baits for boated fish....love em!
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Posts: 239
Location: Madison, WI | Try bending out and offsetting the top hook slightly. |
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Posts: 786
Location: Minnesota | Sharpen those hooks!!!!!!!!!!! Factory sharp hooks are not that sharp. Buy a sharpener from Home Depot and get to work. Your hooking % will go up a LOT!
JMO,
James
http://www.gruntmuskielures.com
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Posts: 3514
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | You know, I had a few fish lost on bulldawgs this year too. I don't know why because the year prior I caught every fish that hit on them. I figure I was doing something wrong, but I think the fish (at least in my area) seemed more to nip rather than just hit hard. I tried smaller hooks and larger, with no major difference. Just an off year.
I think I probably got a bit lax on my hooksets...I think I just pulled hard when the line got taught, whereas I should have really ripped it hard.... next year.
What I don't like is when you replace the hooks and they can catch each other. I think I need to add a little shrink tubing.
Steve |
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Posts: 4266
| Sharpen the hooks for sure.
I believe the top hook is a lousy hook to begin with and hard to sharpen.
I have a couple that I took off the back treble and added an extra split ring and hung the biggest siwash hook that I could get on it. You can hook the point of the siwash about 1/4" into the bottom of the flat/fat plastic, and by pulling the shank towards the rear with the point facing down, you get the point of the hook about 2" farther back than the rear treble sat.
I know there are guys that swear by them and catch a lot of fish. I've only caught 1 legal ski on a regular dawg in 3 years of fishing them. I mix up the retieves. I fish through and above schools of baitfish in open water, and I set the hook as hard as anybody. I just don't get bit on the dam things except pike....and a couple of walleyes too. They look great. They are the best figure 8ing lure ever created, but I just can't catch fish on them. Won't quit throwing them though. It's just a matter of time I guess, and then the floodgates will open and I'll catch a bunch......at least that's the plan.
Beav |
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Posts: 2024
| Been seeing a lot of these kinds of related threads lately where people either hate em or love em. I think and I've only boated a few on BDs is the key is not the retrieve to trigger the fish but understanding what conditions dictate their use. THEN, modifying the retrieve or bait in some fashion to FIT the condition (agrimm's post about using them to drag across sand flats, being able to recognize specific situations like that is what I'm getting at). Lots of people throw them, but I'd say only a select few REALLY catch hords of fish on them. Those are the guys that understand when, where, and how to throw the Dawgs.
That being said, anyone want to play teacher??? 
Edited by esox50 12/13/2006 9:43 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | I wouldnt say I'm a dawg expert...but I do have quite a few fish on them...I'd venture to guess over 50 fish over 30" in the last 3 seasons up to 50.5". I honestly don't think there is a bad time or "wrong time" to throw a dawg...they make a shallow version that has been getting alot more water time the past 2 seasons when in the past I would have thought "no way I can throw a dawg, I'm in 4 feet of water over dying weeds"...ahah, the shallow dawg! problem solved.
I probably have a dawg on one rod from the start of the year to the bitter end 90% of the time...spring dawgs are a great bait in May in southern WI ..I've had some very big ones alllllmost fooled on them in the 8 in May before.
What I see most people that fish with me do that don't catch many fish on them is really not mixing up the retrieve..not only the pulls/pauses but also the sweeps left and right, up and down with the rod...especially as you near the boat...with an 8'6" rod I can take the dawg from the far right, to the far left on the retrieve and roll it over at the boat...very big triggers at least if they don't hit to get them to show themselves.
I think becoming a dawg master basically comes from 2 things...time throwing them and watching guys who catch lots of fish on them. I probably didn't get good until 3 or 4 seasons ago watching how Lee Tauchen worked his. I took his retrieve and added a few things of my own in it to make me confident I can catch a musky on a dawg any month of the year in just about any depth.
One other way to work a dawg that paid off this fall was when fish were NOT showing but you knew they were hugging bottom was to cast it out, let it sink and give it one rip up, let it sink, repeat...they slam it when they hit on that retrieve...
hopefully there were a few pointers / ideas in what i just wrote to make you use them and more confident with them.
Edited by MSKY HNR 12/13/2006 10:06 PM
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| agrimm, is there any way you could put up a pic of your idea re: pushing the wire up thru the back and attaching a hook topside. That's a great tip, and excatly what I'm looking for. I've caught a few fish other than muskies on these baits, and am lookintg to use them along bottom a lot. The snag bad, and I love the ide of the hooks on the top, great tip!! |
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Posts: 518
Location: Cave Run Lake KY. | I cut off the top hook at the top fin it's just in the way and gives you a bad hookset and sharpen the hooks. that's all you have to do. There is no bad way to fish a dawg I like to burn them with a lot of side jerks. You can change hooks but no need to go bigger, like I said sharpen the hooks till your afraid to touch them, if they dont hang on your finger nail their not sharp. Marv. |
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| Thanks for the input.. My hooks are plently sharp, I constantly sharpen them throughout the day... I have lost several fish this year, and missed even more.. Seems like I just feel a very slight tap, like a walleye bite.. I also cut the top hook out... I see alot of guys use the black rubber around the hooks to keep them straight, is this to eliminate the "fouled dawg" or to increase your hooking percentage? |
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Posts: 427
Location: Wausau | I'll try to post a picture on Thursday or Friday...but I only have the rear hook pulled through.
The few tips mentioned, that I'd agree with are the variations in retrieve and hard hook sets. You really need to rip the rubber through the teeth to set the hooks...maybe that's why I broke 3 rods in half this year. |
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| I have caught several fish on Dawgs over the years and consider it my number one bait. Only have been doing a few mods to them and feel that they are good hooking baits but on occasion just like any bait it is tough to pin fish. I think it really depends on how and from what angle the fish hit them. We always caught the top hook off of our dawgs...not sure if this helps but for some reason i think it does. Hook size is dependent on which dawgs you are throwing. The ones prior to the mid season '05 have smaller hooks. In this case we always up size them to 6/0 plasma points. (when I am talking about dawgs I am talking about the Mags...rarely throw the smaller ones unless it is early in the year and i am fishing south of hwy 10 otherwise it is mags all the time) Another thing we have been doing is cutting off the last inch of the tail and melting a flap tail on instead. Not sure if this helps but it gives me more confidence using the bait especailly after dark and puts out a nice little vibration. Other than that, we just throw them and let the fish dictate our retrieves. Early in the year when the fish are sitting high in the water column we dont count them down at all, as soon as they hit the water we start working them in harder pulls and jerks with no pausing. As the season gets into later july when the fish seem to be sitting lower in the water column we count them down and work them a little easier. When we are fishing weeds we rip them pretty hard to keep them up and free of weeds. That's it!
John |
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| JJ
Don't discount the medium sized Dawgs. I've had nice ones follow the mag dawg, but fail to eat the thing despite lots of boat side maneuvers. When I return to the fish a bit later and showed them a smaller (medium) Dawg, they (sometimes) eat without hesitation. So, the smaller Dawg can be a good bait with which to return to a reluctant fish. This season, I also experience the opposite on one trip. They wouldn't eat the mag, but immediately jumped all over a Pounder that my partner was throwing. For these reasons, I had 5 different sized/color Dawgs tied onto the 7 musky rods in my boat, from the Pounder on down.
By the way, I also snip the top hook off of all my Dawgs as suggested years ago by some guy named Hrbeck.
I also have eliminated the sevenstrand wire inside my older Dawgs and replaced with 200 lb. flourocarbon (use a sucker needle) attached directly to the line tie and run through the bait. That sevenstrand is well know to break at the most inopportune times.
I also change split rings (to Buchers) and agree with the larger, sharper hook theory.
Finally, to completely eliminate BallDawg syndrome, tie directly to the nose of the bait with heavy flourocarbon leader material and cinch the connection down tight when you do so. You can't change baits easily (who needs to when they're eating Dawgs?), but the problem is solved. No more frustrating wasted casts.
BrianF. |
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| I have never understood the thinking behind cutting the top hook off...sorry, even if Herbie says to, I don't buy it...since I have caught fish that were only hooked by that hook I'll leave it there..why take hooks OFF a bait? just my 2 cents |
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| Brad,
I see what you are saying. The only reason I can come up with is that it "get's in the way". When a fish, lets say t-bones one I feel that the top hook does not allow the fish to completely come down on the bait. Almost keeping the fish's mouth open more instead of letting it clamp down on it. I have lost fish on dawgs, every year I lose fish on dawgs...but it seemed to be worse when the top hook was on the bait. Guess it just is a confidence thing...and you know how important that is
Brian,
Point taken. Most of the time when I am using dawgs I am fishing open water. So coming back on a fish is a little different than when you are fishing structure. I will try that next year early in the year or late in the season when i am fishing structure. When you would come back with the Pounder...was that later in the year? Fall?? Or were you doing this throughout the season?
thanks,
John |
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Location: Contrarian Island | i see what you are saying as well...I could see it somewhat hindering getting the bottom hooks set into the fish...but since a few fish (and one bigger one) were hooked by just that hook I better leave it there! 
I just try to make sure that hook is very sharp as that one is a bugger to sharpen...
The flap tail idea is interesting...so you get those rubber shad bodies at rollies and wack off the end and put it on the dawg tail?
might be something to try though... |
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| BINGO! On the flaptails Brad.
Those are what i buy.
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| Brad,
I wonder though if the top hook was off if those fish would have been pinned by the bottom hooks though...
food for thought.
J |
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| Pounder experience was late fall on a cisco-based lake. The Pounder got bit 3:1 that day - out of the back of the boat, no less. A couple of fish even came up and looked at the mag, but then immediately ate my partners Pounder when they saw it. Both baits were cisco pattern. Sure seemed to me to be a size preference thing that day. So, now I try to let the fish tell me what size Dawg to throw. That said, my largest fish this fall fell to a medium Dawg, which I like to use when trying to get the bait deeper, faster - usually on sunny days.
Brian |
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Location: Contrarian Island | BrianF, I also had some action on cisco based lakes this fall too where I was tossing a pounder and was bringing up fish when my partner in front of me was not bringing anything up...he tried mags alot that day in front of me but the pounder got them up..they didn't hit but they at least showed...that day it was hard to get them to even show...of course later in the day he got hit on a warner crank but the pounder sure got the looks...if they had been remotely active i'm certain one would have hit it....pounder will see alot more time in the water for 07 that is for sure....
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Posts: 427
Location: Wausau | Just a few pics of the little modifications.
JJ - cool idea about the flap tail...I'll try for sure!
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 Dawgs.jpg (44KB - 207 downloads)
Rear Hook.jpg (38KB - 188 downloads)
Rear Hook Zoom.jpg (32KB - 181 downloads)
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| Exactly what I was looking for, thanks man! |
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| The flap tail idea is interesting...so you get those rubber shad bodies at rollies and wack off the end and put it on the dawg tail?
might be something to try though...
i use the Charlie Sr. swimbaits...they're a crappy lure that you can find for a couple bucks in bargain bins. they've got a great (and big) flaptail. cut it off, melt it on a magdawg...whallah! thump, thump, thump.
Musky Innovations would do well to offer a stock version of this.
i've also taken the tail off a magdawg, placed tinsel in the gap, and then glued the tail back on. it moves nicely forward and back on the pause...
i only did this late in the fall, so no action on it yet, but i'll test it quite a bit more next year.
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| Could it be 123, it was the muskyman in the back of the boat and not the lure?
And, wasn't the ratio 3:0 instead of 3:1?
Edited by ddfenner 12/14/2006 11:29 AM
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Posts: 2024
| Excellent thread!!!! Keep 'em coming!!! How bout other mods like tail spinners?
Has anyone thrown 'Dawgs in heavy wood? Would a Shallow Mag stay shallow enough to not get snagged up in a stump field in, say, 6 FOW? |
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| how good does that flap tail work??? |
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Posts: 501
Location: Norway | I usually rig them like this (see image) that way I can bottomcrawl them with less bottom hookups. I also cut the back hook ( havent done that on this img) if not it tends to roll over.
I also use just 1 treble nowadays.
Michael
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bulld2.jpg (40KB - 190 downloads)
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| That's brilliant too bud. So many guys like these baits and I have no doubt they're as good as they say (BullDawg.....now THERE's a New! Hot! Unique! Must-Have! Totallly alone in terms if everything about it, it's own category/niche) I want to rig mine up to fish the way I want to fish it so I will fish with it more often. |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | Lambeau, that thing is UGLY!! LOL but looks sweet in the water. I think you should put some scent on a que tip and impale that in the dawg for a little smell for the big dawgs. |
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| Pikopath,
I like your mods on the dawg.. I have several 7 strand dawgs that are chewed up and have broken wire.. Looks like I could rig them the way you have your dawg rigged... |
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| Mods are something to toy with for sure..the flap tail idea I might try...JJ have you had a situation where you had a non flap tail dawg and flap tail dawg going head to head and are you convinced the flap tail will out produce the non-mod one in all situations?
Sometimes I think we think too hard and screw up a good thing...for me, the dawg just the way it is catches plenty of fish...will and do I tinker..sure..but to a degree..has the tinsel dawg caught any fish Lambeau? I had thought about putting some tinsel on the head of the dawg earlier this year so that on each pull/pause it would pulsate at the head or I had thought to put it on the belly...but not the tail...so we were sorta thinking the same thing...
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| bn - 12/15/2006 8:00 AM
Mods are something to toy with for sure..the flap tail idea I might try...JJ have you had a situation where you had a non flap tail dawg and flap tail dawg going head to head and are you convinced the flap tail will out produce the non-mod one in all situations?
Brad, to answer your first question...yes we have had both going and guess what? BOTH caught fish. and to answer your second question...no. It just looks good in the water so I do it.
I agree with you...that these mods are not neccesary...but i think the flap tail might work better in certain situations...after dark might be one. It is just fun to tinker with baits...
My dawgs get destroyed, i have a pile that are almost just set aside for parts...but when they lose tails, the flap tail is a good alternative. Just something to keep in mind.
JJ |
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Posts: 501
Location: Norway | jclymer - 12/15/2006 7:56 AM
Pikopath,
I like your mods on the dawg.. I have several 7 strand dawgs that are chewed up and have broken wire.. Looks like I could rig them the way you have your dawg rigged...
If youre lucky the hooks come loose from the plastic, and the dawg itself will hang outside the mouth of the fish, and that way you can also save it from being chewed up and you can arrange the hooks where you want it.
Now a days I use a splitring instead of a snap for the rigged wires.
Showing it on a black dawg with black wire, wasnt the best, but you get the idea.
Michael |
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Posts: 222
Location: Hartland, WI | Here is the flap tail i put on my dawgs. Very simple. Sorry it took a while, all my baits are with my boat in storage. I was able to get to them today.
JJ
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Picture 007.jpg (56KB - 207 downloads)
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Posts: 89
| Great ideas guys! Just curious what kind of glues are you using to replace the tails? I've been experimenting with a couple different brands and haven't had much luck.
Thanks,
Brett |
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Posts: 222
Location: Hartland, WI | seems like the only way to go is by melting them. Good old fire does the trick. The glue systems that are out there, that had so much hype last winter dont seem to work well. they just get to hard and crack. i know it is a pain...but a bic or a blow torch seem to work the best!
J |
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Posts: 7119
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | For that burning that JJ speaks of:
http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/4433348/index.cfm?pkey=xsrd...
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Posts: 222
Location: Hartland, WI | freaking nice SLAMR!!!
that looks perfect.
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| For a much less expensive alternative I have a small butane lighter I got at Gander for I think 10 bucks...grab a can of the butane that you refill it with for another 5-10 and it has lasted a very long time...thing gets HOT...fast...works great on dawgs/joes etc...only thing is keep it in your pocket in cooler temps as it takes a bit to get hot in the really cold weather...
it's silver with a flip up cap...it is nice... |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | With Slamr's blowtorch, you can toast some flan while working on dawgs too. Yummay!!!! |
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| BN, the reason that I did my first mods was to hold damaged dawgs together better.
Instead of putting the hook through a spot that has been heated, thinned and weakened, I put a single hook through the middle of the patch with some super glue on it to hopefully hold the 2 pieces together better and hope that they last longer. |
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Posts: 1294
Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | A little more practical torch is available from Radio Shack. Small enough to fit in any tackle box, refillable w/butane, and comes with 2 tips for better heat control. I believe they sell for about $20. An added bonus, the butane reservoir is clear, so you can always tell how much fuel is available. |
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Posts: 568
| My old buddy muskie_man and I saw about 10 fish yesterday on those wonderful gobs of rubber but could'nt get any eaters. In the small stream we were fishing they were probably freaked out by our dawgs and just had to look. We even had a double follow. Not 1 strike though. Maybe we will get a couple for Christmas on Sat.
Edited by ManitouDan 12/22/2006 6:17 AM
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