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Posts: 30
Location: Wisconsin | Other than row trolling, how do you fish suckers in Wisc. on a Class A lake since you can't troll with them or drag them along as you cast using a trolling motor? I would think it is hard to follow breaklines and other structure just by drifting. I have never fished suckers and was wondering how to do it legally on a Class A lake, but I would also like to cast as I use the suckers.
HODAG |
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Posts: 194
| Just because a lake is classified as "Class A" does not mean trolling is prohibited. Check the regulation's pamphlet. Certain "Class A" lakes are trolling allowed and listed individually if they are. Otherwise you are allowed to "Position fish" while casting. I haven't ran accross any wardens doing this, but I hear that a lot of them will write you a trolling ticket anyways. It seems the individual warden gets to decide exactly how position fishing is defined. The way I read it, all you have to do is keep your line vertical and you are position fishing. Anything else and you are trolling. I know if I ever got a ticket for trolling when I was actually position fishing, the warden would be in the fight of his/her life to get that ticket upheld. The DNR really needs this rule clarified so the confusion goes away. |
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | If you have a sucker out, and the trolling motor is on, you are legal if your line is straight down, not at a 45% angle behind the boat. I am NOT a game warden, I DO NOT play one on T.V., nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night (wait, yes, I did stay at one last night down in Indy). |
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| Why can't you cast and fish a sucker at the same time? Why can't you use a trolling motor to ADJUST your position? You ARE NOT trolling when you cast and fish a sucker at the same time NO MATTER WHAT THE ANGLE OF THE LINE IS when using a trolling motor to position yourself!!! You CANNOT keep the trolling motor running to work a shoreline against the wind, but if you are fishing with the wind, you can move yourself in or out depending on what the wind is doing to you. DO NOT RUN YOUR TROLLING MOTOR AT ALL TIMES when fishing with a sucker, that is considered trolling.
Please show me or tell me one person, just one person, who continuously takes a motor in and out of gear or stops and goes to troll. They do not!!! They are NOT trolling. Show me a boat fishing Lake Michigan or Lake Winnebago that trolls by taking their boat in and out of gear or stop and go using an electric trolling motor. You will not find any.
Trolling is the continuous movement using a motor or sail.
The DNR can stop me all they want. I WILL fight them in court on this matter, AND I WILL WIN!!! Bring it on DNR, bring it on.
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| Anchor, soak a sucker and cast
Drift, soak a sucker and cast
Or go to lakes in S WI or NW WI where trolling is legal and then no worries |
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Posts: 194
| Strong words for a nameless "GUEST" |
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| If you're advancing your position via the use of your trolling motor either forward or reverse....you're trolling. The vertical line thing doesn't mean anything if you're advancing your position. If the DNR sees you advancing your position while a sucker is out, no matter how slow you're moving, you're in violation. I like the way people try to interpret rules to justify what they do. You know when you're trolling. Don't do it where you can't. No matter how dumb you think it is.
Think the DNR doesn't know the differnece of when you're using your TM to stay on a spot or moving? |
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Posts: 106
Location: Des Plaines, IL | Are you able to troll on the Chip? |
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Posts: 5
| I am going to use oars this year. Yes, many boats are too wide for one man to row. But if you have two guys, each guy takes one oar. This will allow me to follow a break line or an underwater hump to perfection. Rowing a big heavy boat is something I would not want to do all day but it would be a nice break from casting, especially if the wind is not helping your drift. - jim |
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Posts: 332
Location: Neenah, WI | This topic is always up to a debate.
Refer to the Position Fishing Rule in the Fishing Reg. Handbook (WI) This law is up to Interpretation of the Warden who Stops you.
I have spoke with 3 different DNR officals about this . Each one of these gentlemen have different opinions!!
If your trolling motor is down and the sucker is out, it can be considered trolling. (Depends on the officer)
Hook em' Hard
SAINT 1 |
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Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | Trolling on the Chip . . . . . legally?
row trolling yes .. .. gas or electric motor trolling no.
But I have seen motor trolling up there every year by people.
Corey Meyer |
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| From the WDNR Fishing Regs
“Backtrolling” is only legal in waters where motor trolling is allowed. “Position fishing” is fishing from a boat where the fishing line extends vertically into the water while the boat is maneuvered (forwards or backwards) by a motor used to position or maintain the position of the boat over underwater structure. Position fishing is allowed statewide in all waters. |
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Posts: 584
| The only way that I know for sure that fall is in the air is when we have a spirited discussion about suckers and "position fishing" versus "trolling" on these boards. 
Below is a statement from the WDNR Chief Warden which I found approx. a year ago floating around the internet. I can't vouch for the authenticity of it, since I found it posted on some other message board. But it does make total sense based on how the regs are written. (If you plan to rely on it, perhaps an email to Mr. Stark himself to vouch for the authenticity first would be a good idea). Based on what's written below, you can cast and use your trolling motor to "slowly move around" a "structure" or "weed edges" or "drop offs" while keeping a sucker "vertical or near vertical". What you can't do is to "trail" a sucker while casting and using your trolling motor.
In any event, assuming authenticity (which is probably a safe assumption), for those who like to cast while simultaneously hanging a sucker overboard in non-trolling counties, I would suggest that you review this carefully and then print out and keep a copy in your boat. If you are fishing within these guidelines, but nevertheless have a game warden ready to ticket you for "trolling", you can try and use the email below to explain why the ticket is unwarranted from the standpoint of the WDNR's Chief Warden.
>>>The following is our current policy and guidance relative to the issue of position fishing and trolling.
Position fishing is allowed statewide and is defined as fishing from a boat where the fishing line extends vertically into the water while the boat is maneuvered (forwards or backwards) by a motor used to position the boat over underwater structures.
Motor trolling is illegal statewide except in some counties and waters as specified in the County and statewide tables under s. NR 20.20, Wis. Adm. Code, and listed in the Special Regulations Listings by County in the Fishing Regulation pamphlet.
DNR Law Enforcement policy is that some movement under power while position fishing will be acceptable and occasional deviation from vertical lines is expected. How much movement is some? Movement for up to several minutes may occasionally be necessary to reposition a fishing boat. Trailing a sucker or minnow behind a boat while casting an artificial lure with the use of a motor would not be authorized. Wardens should consider the totality of the circumstance in determining whether a violation has been committed.
Acceptable practices: Examples of fishing techniques that would qualify under the spirit of the position fishing rule:
- Using your motor to move around a structure, weed edges, rock bars, drop offs, while vertically jigging.
- Using your motor to slowly move around structure fishing with a bottom bouncer fished in a vertical or near vertical presentation.
- Operating your motor to maintain position.
Unacceptable and illegal practices: Examples of fishing techniques that would not qualify as position fishing are:
- Use of downriggers or planer boards to trail live baits or artificial lures while operating electric or outboard motors.
- Trailing lines with live bait or artificial lures while engaged in casting and immediate retrieval of a different bait, lure or similar device while the motor is running.
Randy J. Stark
Chief Warden
Bureau of Law Enforcement
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources
phone: (608) 266-1115
fax: (608) 266-3696
e-mail: [email protected]
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Posts: 750
Location: Minneapolis, MN | Kind of wish we could soak a sucker while casting in MN. Had a couple people mention that it's a good way to catch follows but I'm pretty sure it violates the 1 line per angler rule. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i've done what the guest is saying for years ... intermittent positioning is not dragging or trolling. i have to put the sucker out the back or it will swim ahead and get caught in the trolling motor. must be a lot of guys who use their ap in continuous mode.
i still haven't heard of anyone ticketed who does this ... |
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Posts: 8866
| Excellent post, Matt.
The wardens aren't stupid. They know when you're doing your best to keep your suckers vertical and when you're just trying to circumvent the law.
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | Why don't they call it a "positioning motor" rather then a "trolling motor"?????? Its called a trolling motor, because its used for "trolling"!!!!!!! |
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Posts: 548
Location: MN | Jimfish - 10/2/2006 11:17 AM
Are you able to troll on the Chip?
I heard you can troll Big Chip next year.
Nick |
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Posts: 999
| I disagree Johnnie! I see 99% of the musky guys using their trolling motors for positioning. Now walleye guys I see using their trolling motors for trolling crawler harnesses to maintain very slow speeds. |
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Posts: 127
| Nick59 - 9/18/2013 5:58 AM
I heard you can troll Big Chip next year.
Nick
The governer put the trolling change on hold until 2015 since the popular vote was "No" but the DNR was trying to push forward with it anyway.
So, gotta wait another couple years. Thank goodness. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | Johnnie - 9/17/2013 9:39 PM
Why don't they call it a "positioning motor" rather then a "trolling motor"?????? Its called a trolling motor, because its used for "trolling"!!!!!!!
what is a "kicker" then? used to "kick"? instead of getting hung up on labels and names, why not just go fish the way the rules are intended and have fun without worrying so much? |
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Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | As sled said nobody seems to get nabbed for it. I was however told directly from a Vilas county warden, sucker in the water, trolling motor on for any length if time he would write a ticket. Seems silly, the whole vertical line, at what degree is it illegal?
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Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | As sled said nobody seems to get nabbed for it. I was however told directly from a Vilas county warden, sucker in the water, trolling motor on for any length if time he would write a ticket. Seems silly, the whole vertical line, at what degree is it illegal?
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Posts: 5874
| It all depends on which Conservation Warden you have contact with. Some, I believe very few, will write a ticket if you have a sucker down, and run the TM at all. Some will allow you to "position" fish, move about structure while casting and also a sucker down. I would suggest you determine for yourself whether or not to go ahead and fish with suckers within the "position" fishing guidelines. Me? I have no problem doing it anywhere in WI. I would never use a big bobber or balloon like some do. I would definately fight it, and win, in court if did contact the wrong CW.
Remember, in some CW minds, if you are fishing or hunting, you are breaking some law. He just needs to find out which one, and write the citation.
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Posts: 1220
| Not sure if I missed someone mentioning a good sized sinker in the above posts, but a heavy weight on the line can do a heckava lot toward keeping a line pretty darn vertical while using your bowmount to slowly move along. Really can't believe a warden would allow an argument in that case about a vertical line--you're trolling! My take is that if you are using your electric to move on down the shoreline (regardless of if the speed is enough to take your line from vertical) you are trolling. If you have located a certain spot, let's say a crib, and you are just bumping the pedal every so often so that you can remain over that crib...then you are "position fishing. Naturally, if you are face to face with a warden (or a cop for that matter) who has a serious case of the ass....you're done dancing my friend! |
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Posts: 999
| If your drifting a breakline and the wind blows you off it bump your position motor to get back on it but then get off the gas. Dont be stupid and turn your auto pilot on and buzz down a shoreline while you have 6 bobbers off the back of the boat. I see that every fall and yes those guys should be ticketed. Use common sense. |
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Posts: 999
| Were on the same page Marty! |
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Posts: 1168
| While drifting with a sucker last Sunday I actually turned the trolling motor on constant (reverse) in the afternoon to slow down my drift when the wind picked up. All the while the boat was never "propelled by a means other than drifting or rowing." And certainly never traveling upwind. Perfectly legal in my mind but sounds like some people might not agree. Why make it so much more complicated than it really is?
Edited by MartinTD 9/18/2013 12:57 PM
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| Read the last paragraph
Mike Staggs, DNR fisheries director, 608-267-0796
MADISON – The state Natural Resources Board has approved placing on the 2014 Spring Fish and Wildlife Hearings a compromise engineered by the Conservation Congress that would allow anglers statewide to use a fishing technique called motor trolling, in which anglers drag a line and bait behind their boat while it is under power by a gas or electric motor. Motor trolling with up to three lines per person is allowed in many areas of Wisconsin but prohibited in many others.
Under the proposal, anglers in 56 counties could troll with up to three lines per angler behind a boat. In the remaining counties, anglers could troll with one line per angler except on those lakes where trolling with three lines is already legal and would remain so.
“DNR will be asking anglers to weigh in on the Conservation Congress compromise next spring,” says Mike Staggs, Wisconsin’s fisheries director. “Because it’s different than what was on the 2013 spring hearings, we want a chance for everyone to get a look at it and tell us what they think.”
Conservation Congress members working with DNR fish biologists developed and adopted the compromise measure at their annual May meeting after a split vote at the April 2013 Spring Fish and Wildlife Hearings on a DNR-proposed trolling rule that would have allowed trolling with three lines on all waters statewide. Voters in a majority of counties approved the DNR proposal but the measure was defeated in the statewide count. The Natural Resources Board initially approved the Conservation Congress compromise proposal in May but decided instead to place it on the 2014 Spring Hearings after hearing concerns that the proposal needed additional public input.
Staggs reminded anglers that with this action, the state’s current trolling regulations will remain in effect for the 2014 season with many waters remaining closed to motor trolling. “We know that some musky anglers would like to troll a sucker or minnow behind their boat while they are using a motor to position the boat for casting. That is still a form of motor trolling and will remain illegal in waters close to trolling.” Anglers should check the current regulations on trolling for the waters they plan to fish. |
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| So I read this entire post and I'm confused, yet always have been against trolling.
Why is there a law against trolling? The gain of knowledge so easily accessible these day is still legal. So really why is there a law against trolling? I was under the impression it was catching too many big fish |
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Posts: 999
| Staggs reminded anglers that with this action, the state’s current trolling regulations will remain in effect for the 2014 season with many waters remaining closed to motor trolling. “We know that some musky anglers would like to troll a sucker or minnow behind their boat while they are using a motor to position the boat for casting. That is still a form of motor trolling and will remain illegal in waters close to trolling.” Anglers should check the current regulations on trolling for the waters they plan to fish.
Stark says, DNR Law Enforcement policy is that some movement under power while position fishing will be acceptable and occasional deviation from vertical lines is expected. How much movement is some? Movement for up to several minutes may occasionally be necessary to reposition a fishing boat. Trailing a sucker or minnow behind a boat while casting an artificial lure with the use of a motor would not be authorized. Wardens should consider the totality of the circumstance in determining whether a violation has been committed.
There's a perfect example of the DNR not being on the same page with each other! Stark and Stagg have different views on what may be acceptable and what may not be. Bottom line is dont be hammering on your trolling motor. |
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Posts: 584
| Mr Musky - 9/18/2013 4:36 PM
Staggs reminded anglers that with this action, the state’s current trolling regulations will remain in effect for the 2014 season with many waters remaining closed to motor trolling. “We know that some musky anglers would like to troll a sucker or minnow behind their boat while they are using a motor to position the boat for casting. That is still a form of motor trolling and will remain illegal in waters close to trolling.” Anglers should check the current regulations on trolling for the waters they plan to fish.
Stark says, DNR Law Enforcement policy is that some movement under power while position fishing will be acceptable and occasional deviation from vertical lines is expected. How much movement is some? Movement for up to several minutes may occasionally be necessary to reposition a fishing boat. Trailing a sucker or minnow behind a boat while casting an artificial lure with the use of a motor would not be authorized. Wardens should consider the totality of the circumstance in determining whether a violation has been committed.
There's a perfect example of the DNR not being on the same page with each other! Stark and Stagg have different views on what may be acceptable and what may not be. Bottom line is dont be hammering on your trolling motor.
Actually, I didn't read the statements as inconsistent. Staggs says that anglers aren't allowed to troll a sucker "behind their boat" while positioning the boat and casting. Stark says that, too. He says "trailing a sucker or minnow behind a boat while casting an artificial lure with the use of a motor would not be authorized".
Again, the difference is whether the lines are "vertical or near vertical", versus "trailing", such as when "behind" the boat, as Staggs says. If you're positioning the boat in short bursts with the trolling motor while along a weed edge, such that you are keeping vertical or near vertical sucker lines, you're still OK under both Stark's and Staggs' statements.
"Stark's and Staggs' statements". Say that really fast 3x. Kind of fun. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | tonight IL 6494 GL didn't even worry about regulations and after seeing me on my spot, came in set lines and motor trolled the outside line i was taking right behind me ... LOL. |
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| My boat is 18'6" and on calm days with a sucker out I cast double 10's or larger and am able to cover pretty decent lengths of break line just by bomb casting big blades and just kind of end up dragging the boat down the shoreline myself. But Sometimes I get so paranoid about being accused of covering too much water too quickly I take my trolling motor out of the water altogether. Either way some of the best waters for Musky fishing in the world allow trolling, so if trolling is bad for the fish somebody forgot to tell the fish. If you are on a lake north of highway 10 and you don't want people driving around on what you think is "your lake" I understand. But as it pertains to the fish themselves and each individuals right to fish the way they want, or are able, most folks should just mind their own business and stop looking at trollers like they are SPEARING fish because they are not. Cold weather, fishing with your family, large bodies of water, physical limitation like arthritis, just changing things up, or just getting familiar with some new water on a short trip are all reasons that I troll. Sucker fishing and covering water does not need to be negatively conotated as "dragging" suckers around. Every time you cast you are "dragging" something through the water. Folks north of highway 10 need to realize that if the DNR would allow a little breathing room for sucker fishing that the push to allow trolling would be greatly reduced. THAT BY FAILING TO PROVIDE A REASONABLE, CLEARLY DEFINED, WITH NO ROOM FOR INDIVIDUAL INTERPRETATION, "POSITION FISHING" REGULATION THEY ARE FORCING ANGLERS TO PUSH FOR STATEWIDE TROLLING. I believe that if anglers felt they could cover water sucker fishing without the worry over a ticket that there would be much less interest in legalizing trolling northern waters. Long and short of it is that if anyone is against "trolling" meaning multiple lines, planner boards, down riggers, ski's etc. doing laps around their favorite lake at 2mph to 5mph they should be for more lienient sucker fishing regulations. |
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Posts: 189
Location: Barrington, Il | Hey Sled,
Last fall saw one of your locals dragging suckers and casting. He had painted his bobbers black. New exactly what he was doing. |
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| millsie - 9/19/2013 10:18 AM
Hey Sled,
Last fall saw one of your locals dragging suckers and casting. He had painted his bobbers black. New exactly what he was doing.
Sled is playing, he is well aware the tourist don't rank high in poaching issues. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | here we go again...evvvvvvery year another trolling suckers thread...and every year nobody knows anyone that can verify they ever got pinched.. keep your lines vertical, next to the boat, no bobbers, and you'll be ok.
now the guys from IL I saw with 4 bobbers 30 feet back w the trolling motor on constant...well they might get a ticket. IF a warden saw them... how many lakes in Vilas Oneida and Iron and how many wardens...chances are slim. but, that to me is illegal...but vertical, you are position fishing if you are casting and on and off the TM but let's talk about it again for the next 2 months... i'm sure we won't learn anything new...  |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | BenR - 9/19/2013 10:25 AM
millsie - 9/19/2013 10:18 AM
Hey Sled,
Last fall saw one of your locals dragging suckers and casting. He had painted his bobbers black. New exactly what he was doing.
Sled is playing, he is well aware the tourist don't rank high in poaching issues.
i originally figured he didn't knew one way or another. i saw him in the distance with oars out when i got to my spot and thought there was a local row-trolling. once he saw i wasn't a warden, the tiller got started, when i didn't say anything he just trolled right up where i was and started to run the line. tough fishing for him to start and i suppose he figured he was upping his odds on a night nobody was out there doing much of anything.
i just watched ... people who are trolling, know they are trolling.
Edited by jonnysled 9/19/2013 11:17 AM
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Posts: 182
| Guest - 10/1/2006 10:06 PM
Why can't you cast and fish a sucker at the same time? Why can't you use a trolling motor to ADJUST your position? You ARE NOT trolling when you cast and fish a sucker at the same time NO MATTER WHAT THE ANGLE OF THE LINE IS when using a trolling motor to position yourself!!! You CANNOT keep the trolling motor running to work a shoreline against the wind, but if you are fishing with the wind, you can move yourself in or out depending on what the wind is doing to you. DO NOT RUN YOUR TROLLING MOTOR AT ALL TIMES when fishing with a sucker, that is considered trolling.
Please show me or tell me one person, just one person, who continuously takes a motor in and out of gear or stops and goes to troll. They do not!!! They are NOT trolling. Show me a boat fishing Lake Michigan or Lake Winnebago that trolls by taking their boat in and out of gear or stop and go using an electric trolling motor. You will not find any.
Trolling is the continuous movement using a motor or sail.
The DNR can stop me all they want. I WILL fight them in court on this matter, AND I WILL WIN!!! Bring it on DNR, bring it on.
Relax Pally. You are way to high strung. Ok, take a deep breath through your nose and blow it out. There, better now. If you think that court case is worth it then go for it.
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Pretty simple really. If you want to avoid a ticket on lakes where trolling is prohibited, don't drag a sucker around while using a trolling motor. You know you're doing it, you know if you're in the "maybe I shouldn't be doing it" zone. Why ruin a trip up north by testing the DNR? Make things easier on yourself and troll where you can.
Duane Harpster the old warden who patrolled Vilas Co probably gave out more cites than any warden I've ever known. I watched him give out 3 in 15 minutes on Palmer. Boat to boat to boat. I asked hm how he did it so quick. ...."I pick a point on the lake in front of your boat. Cross that point with your trolling motor down while dragging a bobber, here I come." Had all three boats picked out before he even went to the first one.
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Posts: 189
Location: Barrington, Il |
I know. I just still can't believe the guy actually painted his bobbers black. And people from all over are intentionally breaking the law.
jonnysled - 9/19/2013 11:15 AM
BenR - 9/19/2013 10:25 AM
millsie - 9/19/2013 10:18 AM
Hey Sled,
Last fall saw one of your locals dragging suckers and casting. He had painted his bobbers black. New exactly what he was doing.
Sled is playing, he is well aware the tourist don't rank high in poaching issues.
i originally figured he didn't knew one way or another. i saw him in the distance with oars out when i got to my spot and thought there was a local row-trolling. once he saw i wasn't a warden, the tiller got started, when i didn't say anything he just trolled right up where i was and started to run the line. tough fishing for him to start and i suppose he figured he was upping his odds on a night nobody was out there doing much of anything.
i just watched ... people who are trolling, know they are trolling. |
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Posts: 8866
| The wardens I've talked to about it all said basically the same thing. "you know when you're breaking the law. So do we."
I suspect as is the case with most LEO's is that most folks who get violations have actually talked themselves into a ticket trying to talk their way out of it. |
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Posts: 999
| Gander, what if the wind was blowing them along and the trolling motor was down but not in use? |
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Posts: 4342
Location: Smith Creek | Bobber+trolling motor=ticket
Especially west of Mercer. |
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | So why not allow motor trolling with only 1 line per angler like we do in Mn?
As far as the argument of trolling catches to many big fish, well I've spent 100's of hours trolling and have gone home skunked. Trolling is no sure guarantee of catching fish of any species. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | fishpoop - 9/20/2013 12:05 PM
So why not allow motor trolling with only 1 line per angler like we do in Mn?
As far as the argument of trolling catches to many big fish, well I've spent 100's of hours trolling and have gone home skunked. Trolling is no sure guarantee of catching fish of any species.
that's one element of what many would consider an agreeable solution and how it may finally get resolved. it gets conflicted when you consider the tradition of the area than row-trolling in Vilas and Oneida Counties of WI.. There remains a strong defense of the 3-line tradition, right or wrong ... depends on your viewpoint. most locals don't think they blend well (3-lines and motor trolling) while many outside the area believe they do, or should. it's not black and white.
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| fishpoop - 9/20/2013 12:05 PM
So why not allow motor trolling with only 1 line per angler like we do in Mn?
As far as the argument of trolling catches to many big fish, well I've spent 100's of hours trolling and have gone home skunked. Trolling is no sure guarantee of catching fish of any species.
People allow themselves to get blinded by ideaology. BR |
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | BenR - 9/20/2013 12:26 PM
fishpoop - 9/20/2013 12:05 PM
So why not allow motor trolling with only 1 line per angler like we do in Mn?
As far as the argument of trolling catches to many big fish, well I've spent 100's of hours trolling and have gone home skunked. Trolling is no sure guarantee of catching fish of any species.
People allow themselves to get blinded by ideaology. BR
Yeah, I think so too. |
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | jonnysled - 9/20/2013 12:19 PM
fishpoop - 9/20/2013 12:05 PM
So why not allow motor trolling with only 1 line per angler like we do in Mn?
As far as the argument of trolling catches to many big fish, well I've spent 100's of hours trolling and have gone home skunked. Trolling is no sure guarantee of catching fish of any species.
that's one element of what many would consider an agreeable solution and how it may finally get resolved. it gets conflicted when you consider the tradition of the area than row-trolling in Vilas and Oneida Counties of WI.. There remains a strong defense of the 3-line tradition, right or wrong ... depends on your viewpoint. most locals don't think they blend well (3-lines and motor trolling ) while many outside the area believe they do, or should. it's not black and white.
Sorry, I missed your reply. I saw Ben R's below yours and thought that was the only reply to my post. Didn't mean to blow you off.
I guess compromise is the only answer, allow motor trolling but with only 1 line per angler. As for traditions, well sometimes traditions have to die as the world changes. Like darkhouse spearing for Northerns here in Minnesota. The spearer's make the same argument, it's tradition and people wonder why it's hard to catch a 20+ pound pike here.
As far as row trolling goes, why would that change if they allow motor trolling? A person could still go out and row troll if they wanted too. Maybe write the law that you can use 3 lines if you row troll but only 1 line if you motor troll. Seems like a simple and easy workable common sense compromise solution to me.
Bottom line is that trolling isn't going to kill a lot of fish or a fishery. The only thing that is going to do that is... keeping fish! As long as people are practicing catch and release then trolling isn't going to destroy a fishery because if trolling was going to do that we wouldn't have decent fishing here in Mn or in Ontario or the St. Lawrence. So that argument is folly.
Edited by fishpoop 9/21/2013 8:59 AM
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| Too avoid all this controversy it would be simple to let anglers troll up to 3 suckers per boat. Now thats suckers only. This would eliminate the headaches and not interfere with row trolling and still keep the vilas lakes to no motor trolling artificial baits. |
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Location: Elgin, IL | Personally, I don't care either way. This rule as it stands doesn't bother me much, I've learned to work with it...instead of against it.
This is nothing compared to WI DNR Waterfowl regulations. At least when I hunted birds in the late 80's and all of the 90's. (in the Mauston/Castle Rock/ Petenwell area.) Holy Cripes, You had to study that little book like a med. student before a final, just to be sure you were legal. And the language was so muddled that it was a joke. We did well though, and after my partner got 6 DUI's in 2 years, I stopped duck and goose hunting in WI entirely. He had to move to Mexico. My point is, they made it really tough to shoot a few birds up there.
The sucker/trolling debacle is nothing. I'll be looking for some of you in the next 2 months. I wish I was up there now...cooling down some, it's a peach out there.
Good luck. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Pontoon trolling Mille Lacs ... maybe didn't kill it, but may have put a dent in it.
try darkhouse spearing sometime, it's a hoot and won't go away in our lifetime. |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | LOL - Did moving to Mexico solve his drinking & driving problem?
I don't see a issue with trolling a single line. I do know there are folks in Vilas county, etc. who are against trolling. I trust part of their objections are based on people just being rude and not maintaining a comfortable space. It seems to me, common sense is not so common today. I've been cut off by folks casting, while I'm casting, its not that they couldn't see which direction I'm going either. I just shake my head and leave, and come back later, no need for an on the water argument with idiot's, it just ruin's a good day on the water.
Have fun!
Al |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Mr Musky - 9/19/2013 4:30 PM
Gander, what if the wind was blowing them along and the trolling motor was down but not in use?
If that were really the case the boat would be broadside to the wind. |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Mr Musky - 9/21/2013 10:07 AM
Too avoid all this controversy it would be simple to let anglers troll up to 3 suckers per boat. Now thats suckers only. This would eliminate the headaches and not interfere with row trolling and still keep the vilas lakes to no motor trolling artificial baits.
Enforcement would be a nightmare. Sorta like casting big baits for "northerns" on walleye opening weekend.
I've been fishing Vilas co my entire life. While part of me loves the tradition and being separate from the lakes down south, part of me also thinks that trolling one sucker behind a boat while casting isn't really hurting anything and for the most part 99.9% of the guys up there are doing it anyways.
Thing that really gets me now, irritates me to no-end, is guys blatantly trolling up there with their kids. Knowing darn well that what they're doing is illegal and teaching them that's it ok. Last weekend a guy and his kid were casting and trolling on Tenderfoot, they saw me come up past, the dude had his kid pull the sucker out. As soon as I went by, he had his kid put it back in and off they went.
Sportsmanship isn't Gamesmenship. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Don't troll in N WI unless you intend to break the law. Everyone should know if they are trolling or drifting, so it's pretty simple. Don't drag a sucker behind your boat while moving about. A odd law based on tradition, but it's the law here. |
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| Steve is it acceptable to drift sideways down an edge with the wind, sucker mid boat over the side, can you bump your pedal to move like 5 yds to stay on that edge? Line never leaving the verticle position over the side straight down? Is this acceptable or not? |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I've seen alot worse than that, I'd say you'd be ok. Personally, I'd pull the TM up after adjusting position. |
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People allow themselves to get blinded by ideaology. BR
So true, so true and most never ever realize it... |
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| To the Northern WI guides out there will you guys be running suckers and allowing your clients to cast with your trolling motor down whether you are using it or not? Like you have always done in the past or will this new wording on postion fishing change how you and your clients fish this fall? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | People allow themselves to get blinded by ideaology. BR
Not really. It's been the law up here for a very long time, and has been reinforced by a recent vote. it's what the majority here wants. I think ideology and the concept of democracy (little d) might coincide (understatement of the century), but that's what it is. The people who voted for and against weren't 'blinded' by anything. Most who voted were property owners and folks who fish the little lakes up here often and know exactly what they want and do not want.
Obviously, those who wanted to troll were in the minority when it came time to vote, or didn't bother to vote.
I'd bet on didn't bother to vote, how's that for ideology? |
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| When I quoted BR about people being blinded by ideology, I wasn't even talking about sucker fishing/trolling in northern WI... |
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| Wimuskyfisherman - 10/4/2013 1:41 PM
When I quoted BR about people being blinded by ideology, I wasn't even talking about sucker fishing/trolling in northern WI...
No doubt, just one example. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | BR was doing his best to counter my ideology ... he's sharp that way, but barbless-ben would rather drive a noisy outboard all over the northwoods than be a purist in that format. that is best if applied to trout and other quiet activities in his world. for muskies, he still enjoys pressing the "easy-button", hope this helps to clarify the underhanded jab he took at me with his post. he and i have since sorted it our in im's.
i promised to row if he visits for some fall trolling ... otherwise, he'll continue to comment on things in the northwoods from his perch in colorado. |
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| It wasn't a jab at all, just point out that the debate against trolling is "belief" based. You can't reason or compromise with someone based on "belief". As for the easy button, I am not sure any musky are easy. BR |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ---
So why not allow motor trolling with only 1 line per angler like we do in Mn?
As far as the argument of trolling catches to many big fish, well I've spent 100's of hours trolling and have gone home skunked. Trolling is no sure guarantee of catching fish of any species.
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People allow themselves to get blinded by ideaology. BR
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Quoted--People allow themselves to get blinded by ideaology. BR
'So true, so true and most never ever realize it...'
'When I quoted BR about people being blinded by ideology, I wasn't even talking about sucker fishing/trolling in northern WI...'
So you were just babbling off topic offering irrelevant observations for Ben to agree with?
Makes all sorts of sense.
'Belief' based? Seriously? If the current law, upheld by the last vote, is anything, it's based upon the opinions of the majority of the folks who bothered to show up and vote. Opinions are beliefs. Stating one's belief followed by 'in my opinion' is repeating the obvious. |
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| It's my belief that opening up trolling wouldn't harm the muskies one bit.
But this law is not necessarily about the safety of muskies. Some people will argue that it is, or even that it has anything to do with muskies at all. There are a lot of other fish swimming the waters of N WI, and a lot more reasons for the anti-trolling sentiment than the well being of the fish.
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| So Essox -- how would you like to go out to a 300 acre lake and see some guy out there trolling with 3 lines out. You could circle the entire lake in 10 minutes and then just keep driving around until you get a hit. In no way should trolling be allowed on most lakes in WI as they are just too small. I'm all for finding some compromise that would allow for a sucker to be dragged IF you are still casting, but if in order to do that you have to allow all types of trolling -- then no way. |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | esoxaddict - 10/4/2013 7:20 PM
It's my belief that opening up trolling wouldn't harm the muskies one bit.
But this law is not necessarily about the safety of muskies. Some people will argue that it is, or even that it has anything to do with muskies at all. There are a lot of other fish swimming the waters of N WI, and a lot more reasons for the anti-trolling sentiment than the well being of the fish.
I 100% agree that people don't want trolling based on factors other than harming the fishery. Question is, who cares? If the majority up there don't want it simply because the sky is blue, I'm not going to argue against it.
Folks in Wauwatosa just voted to have trains not sound horns at some crossings. I'm 100% sure its not because of safety, but who am I to tell them they're crazy not to listen to train horns? Will it prevent me from driving through there? Maybe, but I know what I'm getting into by driving through, I'm not going to stand at the crossings flipping off the engineers for not blaring their horns at 200 dBs.
What it comes down to is this. If you don't agree with the trolling regs up there, find water where you can do what you want. There's plenty of waters in Wi, Mn and Mich that allow trolling. Why is it that I'm sensing some people are arguing these regs just because the state is telling them they can't do something? How dare they? Same people who are trying to finagle a way around the regs.
Fishing is supposed to be fun, go find waters where you can enjoy your type of fun. |
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Location: Roscoe IL | Gander Mt Guide - 9/19/2013 3:32 PM
Pretty simple really. If you want to avoid a ticket on lakes where trolling is prohibited, don't drag a sucker around while using a trolling motor. You know you're doing it, you know if you're in the "maybe I shouldn't be doing it" zone. Why ruin a trip up north by testing the DNR? Make things easier on yourself and troll where you can.
Duane Harpster the old warden who patrolled Vilas Co probably gave out more cites than any warden I've ever known. I watched him give out 3 in 15 minutes on Palmer. Boat to boat to boat. I asked hm how he did it so quick. ...."I pick a point on the lake in front of your boat. Cross that point with your trolling motor down while dragging a bobber, here I come." Had all three boats picked out before he even went to the first one.
For the first time ever in 18 years of muskie fishing, I was confronted by another muskie fisherman when using my bow mount with a sucker out over the weekend. I was also casting and this dude went off on me. I used to be a member to MI and at no time were we educated to the fact that using your bow mount was not leagle while sucker fishing. They showed me how to do it and it seems that everyone here in one way or the other. So what's the frikken law? I read the regs and can't seem to see where it says no TM with a sucker out... I use the bow mount TM to position the boat so I can set up my casting spots and to move allong at a very slow pace while working a breakline or shorline. This sure took the fun out of a trip we planned on for months, and freinds of mine who have never muskie fished before sure got a bad taste in their mouth on this sport because of the attitude and yelling from the other fishing boat. I felt terrible and they didn't want to stay out because of the un-relenting yelling from the other boat. Lines were strait down at all times. I know what trolling is, or at least I thought I did. I said screw it and used an oar for the remainder of the trip, but I'm considering Florida for fall trips going forward and not spending $ on bait, room & board and in the bars in the Wisconsin Northwoods again. |
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Location: oswego, il | I know people who fish up north, put suckers out and run the trolling motor. They don't believe they are trolling. Another friend told me he was not trolling but advancing his position. Bottom line its not clear to alot of people and the interpretation is grey. The vertical line argument is silly. A lead weight can change that interpretation. It should change. Suckers fishing is a business. The state should be smart about how to regulate it. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The law is...no trolling in N WI unless the lake is classified as a trolling water. You cannot pull a sucker along while casting, even slowly. Don't do that and all is well.
The guy in the other boat was not conveying the message well. Jerks abound all over the world, don't blame the regs for his behavior.
There are fishing regs in place in Florida, too. read up before your trip or you'll end up in Alabama next year. |
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Location: Roscoe IL | sworrall - 11/6/2013 10:07 AM
There are fishing regs in place in Florida, too. read up before your trip or you'll end up in Alabama next year.
Now that's funny.
I'm now better educated on this and will never use the TM again with a sucker out. |
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Location: oswego, il | I just spend my fall money elsewhere. To many I am sure that makes them happy. When a.warden tells you trolling motor on for any reason with a out is trolling, why would i drive 5-6 hours and have the wind change out of favor or too hard? |
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| ToddM - 11/6/2013 10:06 AM I know people who fish up north, put suckers out and run the trolling motor. They don't believe they are trolling. Another friend told me he was not trolling but advancing his position. Bottom line its not clear to alot of people and the interpretation is grey. The vertical line argument is silly. A lead weight can change that interpretation. It should change. Suckers fishing is a business. The state should be smart about how to regulate it. It doesn't matter what you or I think. it matters what the CW that you contact thinks. Some will write a citation, some won't. I've had suckers out, TM down, and casting, and have been passed by CW's that never gave me a second look. If you do it right, as in position fishing, you should not be cited. Maybe. Again, it depends on the CW you contact. TCritter. That guy was a complete moron. Sorry he wrecked the outing for you and your friends. The reg is written poorly, I agree. It won't stop me, when I decide to go fishing again. Doing it right, I'm certain I'd win in court, if cited.
Edited by Shep 11/6/2013 11:44 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Todd, you can't avoid us forever.
The DNR has been trying to get the trolling laws up here changed for a few seasons now. Thanks to the CC, they haven't been able to. |
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Location: oswego, il | I will never avoid the northwoods, to beautiful, too many great places to fish and despite where I am from alot of friendly people. I just have to weigh my options when it comes to sucker fishing. |
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Location: Smith Creek | I'll start a collection to pay your fine if you get nabbed.
Or you could just fish Bayfield, Washburn or Price counties. Same small fish |
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| The people of northern WI have spoken. They don't want you, me, or anyone else up there "bothering" them. Go somewhere else. And you'll find that the fishing is better somewhere else, too! WI needs to get its act together. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That's dumb.
They want you up here, but they don't want you trolling. Been that way a very long time, did you just figure this out, Sparky?
Northern Wisconsin voted no. Several times.
I voted yes, by the way. I lost, as did the others who voted yes.
If you have to troll to be happy, head over to waters where it's legal. |
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| Gander Mt Guide - 10/7/2013 10:25 AM
esoxaddict - 10/4/2013 7:20 PM
It's my belief that opening up trolling wouldn't harm the muskies one bit.
But this law is not necessarily about the safety of muskies. Some people will argue that it is, or even that it has anything to do with muskies at all. There are a lot of other fish swimming the waters of N WI, and a lot more reasons for the anti-trolling sentiment than the well being of the fish.
I 100% agree that people don't want trolling based on factors other than harming the fishery. Question is, who cares? If the majority up there don't want it simply because the sky is blue, I'm not going to argue against it.
Folks in Wauwatosa just voted to have trains not sound horns at some crossings. I'm 100% sure its not because of safety, but who am I to tell them they're crazy not to listen to train horns? Will it prevent me from driving through there? Maybe, but I know what I'm getting into by driving through, I'm not going to stand at the crossings flipping off the engineers for not blaring their horns at 200 dBs.
What it comes down to is this. If you don't agree with the trolling regs up there, find water where you can do what you want. There's plenty of waters in Wi, Mn and Mich that allow trolling. Why is it that I'm sensing some people are arguing these regs just because the state is telling them they can't do something? How dare they? Same people who are trying to finagle a way around the regs.
Fishing is supposed to be fun, go find waters where you can enjoy your type of fun.
I don't understand the argument that if it is what the people "up there" want it they should get their way.
Lakes are state property, someone that lives in Madison is just as much an owner of a Vilas Co. lake as someone who lives on the shore of that lake.
Or am I wrong ? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yes, actually you are. Look up the Wisconsin Conservation Congress. Our Governor has made some changes, but what folks in the majority vote for in fish and game management in the area in which they vote during the Spring hearings, they generally get, sometimes to the great detriment of the fishery, sometimes not. Norm, Mike and I used the system to acquire a 50" limit on Pelican. The minority wasn't very happy. That's politics... |
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Location: Roscoe IL | I got my butt chewed out because I was breaking the law. I can live with that and know better now. I'm sure if I was not breaking the law that the person fishing in the other boat would have been just fine with us being out there. Lesson learned and we move forward. |
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| ToothyCritter - 11/7/2013 7:41 AM I got my butt chewed out because I was breaking the law. I can live with that and know better now. I'm sure if I was not breaking the law that the person fishing in the other boat would have been just fine with us being out there. Lesson learned and we move forward. Maybe you were. You said they showed you how? What was their technique that was legal?
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| If the DNR would just focus on allowing trolling motors to be used for livebait fishing on all waters of WI we wouldnt have this problem and im sure it would pass. Focus on the problem at hand rather then the bigger can of worms. |
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Location: Smith Creek | They already do. You can use the trolling motor to hover on a spot with live bait. |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | sworrall - 11/6/2013 7:24 PM
Yes, actually you are. Look up the Wisconsin Conservation Congress. Our Governor has made some changes, but what folks in the majority vote for in fish and game management in the area in which they vote during the Spring hearings, they generally get, sometimes to the great detriment of the fishery, sometimes not. Norm, Mike and I used the system to acquire a 50" limit on Pelican. The minority wasn't very happy. That's politics...
Steve, You don't need to be a resident of any specific county to vote in the hearings right? By which I mean, if guys from Madison are strongly for Trolling, they can vote on regs for Vilas by voting up there?
I can't remember the exact rules on that, but if it's true, nothing stopping folks from making a drive up and either voting or submitting a resolution to the WCC. |
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Location: Roscoe IL | Shep - 11/7/2013 8:27 AM
ToothyCritter - 11/7/2013 7:41 AM I got my butt chewed out because I was breaking the law. I can live with that and know better now. I'm sure if I was not breaking the law that the person fishing in the other boat would have been just fine with us being out there. Lesson learned and we move forward. Maybe you were. You said they showed you how? What was their technique that was legal?
I suppose it was, for years we have been using the TM to position the boat. Members showed me how to make QS rigs, how to hold the fish, what to look for on the depthfinder. It's a great club, and I learn from eveeryone I fish with for the most part. This was so many years ago, so maybe the laws have changed since then. I'm not too old to learn and make adjustments though.. |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Just drift with the wind with your suckers out and you will have no problems! I did it for years until the DNR allowed trolling in Price county. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mr Musky - 11/7/2013 9:57 AM
If the DNR would just focus on allowing trolling motors to be used for livebait fishing on all waters of WI we wouldnt have this problem and im sure it would pass. Focus on the problem at hand rather then the bigger can of worms.
If the law allows Muskie anglers to troll up here, walleye, crappie, and bass fishermen had better be allowed to as well, and trolling with an electric motor would have to be legalized. Trolling with ANY motor was roundly defeated while position fishing with an electric was approved.
Think about it. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Gander Mt Guide - 11/7/2013 11:49 AM
sworrall - 11/6/2013 7:24 PM
Yes, actually you are. Look up the Wisconsin Conservation Congress. Our Governor has made some changes, but what folks in the majority vote for in fish and game management in the area in which they vote during the Spring hearings, they generally get, sometimes to the great detriment of the fishery, sometimes not. Norm, Mike and I used the system to acquire a 50" limit on Pelican. The minority wasn't very happy. That's politics...
Steve, You don't need to be a resident of any specific county to vote in the hearings right? By which I mean, if guys from Madison are strongly for Trolling, they can vote on regs for Vilas by voting up there?
I can't remember the exact rules on that, but if it's true, nothing stopping folks from making a drive up and either voting or submitting a resolution to the WCC.
Exactly. No one ever does. The meetings here are attended by pretty much the same folks every year, and completely ignored by everyone else, until an opportunity to complain about the results offers up. |
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| I believe that only 6096 people attended and voted at the annual spring hearings for the WCC. Considering that the state sells, on avg between 2001-2012, 204000 licenses a year that is only about 3% of the fisher people in the state. That's why the wcc is an advisory only committe and should be taken with a grain of salt. Its nice to know that a citizen can voice their opinion there but until they have majority numbers it should not mean a thing. As far as trolling, just because a few good old boys think its wrong doesn't mean it is. The state has reviewed an re-reviewed this issue finding no data to support its ill affects and that's why it is in favor of allowing it statewide. If any one can dispute it go ahead, but know you are a minority. Most of us citizens have no time for the good old boy hearings and neither does the dnr. Both of these beauracracies will make mistakes. Just can't please everyone. My time will be spent on the water not at a table with my pencil and paper pretending to be a politician. |
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Location: Smith Creek | Plumpers1 - 11/13/2013 2:10 PM
I believe that only 6096 people attended and voted at the annual spring hearings for the WCC. Considering that the state sells, on avg between 2001-2012, 204000 licenses a year that is only about 3% of the fisher people in the state. That's why the wcc is an advisory only committe and should be taken with a grain of salt. Its nice to know that a citizen can voice their opinion there but until they have majority numbers it should not mean a thing. As far as trolling, just because a few good old boys think its wrong doesn't mean it is. The state has reviewed an re-reviewed this issue finding no data to support its ill affects and that's why it is in favor of allowing it statewide. If any one can dispute it go ahead, but know you are a minority. Most of us citizens have no time for the good old boy hearings and neither does the dnr. Both of these beauracracies will make mistakes. Just can't please everyone. My time will be spent on the water not at a table with my pencil and paper pretending to be a politician.
So you chose not to vote on it and come on here and whine about it? Here's an idea: next year, vote for trolling throughout Wisconsin, if the majority wants the same and the law still doesn't get changed, then come here and whine about it. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i'd imagine Jay Cutler would be a troller ... |
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| There's no data supporting the ill effects of trolling... Of course there isn't. The only way to obtain that data would be to ban trolling where it is allowed and see what happens, or allow trolling where it is not and see what happens. My question for all of you is this: Where is the best musky fishing in the state of WI? Any thoughts as to why that is? |
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Location: Roscoe IL | EA,
After seeing some of the pigs coming out of Green Bay, I would say that's the best IMOP. |
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| Trolling GB is a heck of a lot different than having someone troll on a 300 acre lake. |
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Location: Mayville, WI | esoxaddict - 11/13/2013 3:45 PM
My question for all of you is this: Where is the best musky fishing in the state of WI? Any thoughts as to why that is?
Green Bay & because they can troll
(throwing out all other pertinent variables including, but not limited to: genetics, size limit, C&R ethic, size of waterbody, forage available, number of people trolling, number of people complaining about the number of people trolling, reports of good fishing from said waterbody, stocking, internet guestimators on size of fish photographed, good fishing based on average size, good fishing based on numbers caught, good fishing based on enjoyment of time spent on the water, sailboaters, good fishing based on amount of beverages consumed & affect it may have on actually memory of said fishing, water skiiers, PWC users & their competance of laws, and many others because, when it boils down to it, the best fishing in WI is all because of trolling, or not.)
Edited by scmuskies 11/13/2013 4:09 PM
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Location: Mayville, WI | Guest - 11/13/2013 4:05 PM
Trolling GB is a heck of a lot different than having someone troll on a 300 acre lake.
Of course it is! You have to dodge the water skiers.
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| If a majority of WI locals could learn catch & release I'd be in favor of legalizing trolling. Until then, and I'm not holding my breath, I think it's better to restrict their methods as much as possible. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The majority already does CPR. Look it up. Seems like some anglers from all other muskie destinations keep a few too. |
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Sucker fishing Class A lakes in Wisconsin