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| I have always been curious to what others think about evironmental triggers. Triggers that influence musky feeding activity. Maybe you can list triggers that you look for. Be specific.
For instance, on a partly cloudy day, I will make a lure change to a black top water propbait as soon as a cloud passes the sun. The contrast and the fact that I am covering massive amount of water will find that muskie thats activity level just turned up 1 notch.
MUSKY ILLINI
"Pool or pond. The pond will probably be good for you" |
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| Environmental TRIGGER is a different question than environmental factors. The baitfish connection, water clarity, seasonal changes (water temp), etc. all affect where muskies will be located and how aggressive they will behave. Certainly a factor...
But, to consider how the environment will TRIGGER activity in a fish... that is interesting. The setting of the sun (light change) and the rise of phytoplankton towards the surface, which brings up the baitfish, which makes a musky more accessible may seem like an environmental trigger... but I think it is just an influence on location that may give you the perception of a trigger. This may become similar to the "chicken or the egg" debate. Perhaps the environmental change from day to night triggers some sort of feeding reaction in the fish? Hmmmm, how will we ever know?
I do know that when a storm front is approaching my knees will start to ache and my sinuses may be affected too. Perhaps a dropping barometer affects a musky too.... making them strap on the feedbag? Not sure, but I know lots of good musky fisherman get excited when a storm is approaching.
Cool concept, that's for sure. Thanks for starting this thread Musky Illini. What does everyone else think? What weather changes seem to have a positive affect? Are there other environmental "triggers" that seem to make the fish suddenly "turn on"? I know wind and current have been discussed in the past.
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| There are lots of triggers. I think any type of change can trigger activity. Even a passing speed boat is an environmental change, so to speak. Most guys give them the middle finger. I cast in their WAKE and say thank you very much. If they do it more than 3 times then I lead them about 2 boat lengths with my SUPER TOP RAIDER!
MUSKY ILLINI
"Man....You aint NEVER met Dr. Martin Luther the KING!"
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| O.K...I'm heading to left field on this one....way out to left field!!
With a drop in barometric pressure, water expands (like the aching your knees get when a front is pushing through). Could it be, that with the water in a lake expanding, that the fish might actually "feel hungry" since there is less pressure (how insignificant that may be due to the large amount of water) on it's body? Could it also be that fish may be able to sense the less pressure that they can actually swim easier, thus activating them? This is just one of those things that popped into my head out of nowhere. If you think I am way off the mark, send me an email that would act as a slap to the side of my head...[:p] |
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| VMS,
I think that the muskie certainly can "sense" or "feel" the change in barometric pressure. The question is how does it affect their behavior? NXTWRLDRCD brought up the crazy idea in another post that the change in pressure may have an affect on oxygen content (DO) in the water as well..... which affects their metabolism. I don't think we know enough about these phenomenas to call them "crazy" ideas.
Does the drop in pressure bring fish up shallower where they are more accessible... thus giving us the perception of increased activity? Do they simply move around more because it is like having the "ball and chain" temporarily removed? Or is it more simple than that... and that overcast (low light) conditions usually accompany low pressure. Perhaps it is simply the low light that improves our fishing success?
Lots of stuff to think about. Any other ideas? |
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| Jason,
I am still trying to think through the DO idea, Usually with a front, there is wind, so the expanding of the water, with the wind to "aerate" the water, the DO could potentially go up.
but this thought entered my mind...with an approaching front, the pressure change can be quite drastic at times. With change in pressure, the upper layers of the water are affected first, and can expand upward. so...those fish in the upper column could become active due to the pressure change they feel. Couple this with the higher rate of oxygen....something good should happen. That has been proven over and over that just before the frontal change things are moving.
Come to think of it, deer are the same way.
Good topic....got me thinking again.
Steve |
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| VMS,
I’m in concurrence here with you. I wasn’t only referencing the oxygen in the water, but also the oxygen in the fish’s muscles, similar to “the bends” in scuba diving. I speculate that when the pressure drops the O2 in the blood and muscles becomes more plentiful and ideal for the fish to use.
And since we’re already out in left field here, how about this: Muskies suspend at the deepest oxygen enriched level they can find, they do this to absorb O2 at these denser levels, they then go shallow to feed utilizing the “charged” O2 in their system.
We really need a biologist around here. |
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| Wow, it sure does get heavy here, this board sure was a great idea! I'm sure we will all learn plenty and hopefully put more fish in the boat as a result.
I'm no expert and don't want to bother with the research, but I'm sure the pressure change a fish feels from a barmometer change is only equivelent to a foot or so of water depth difference. |
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| Speaking of Thermocline, How much time do you spend fishing at the thermocline? I honestly, don't spend much time trying to work it...In our lake system, it's 16 - 18 feet down every year!! Hard to cast and get baits that deep and keep them there. And..trolling is NOT my preferred method of fishing.
NXT..I also agree that the majority of the fish will use the thermocline,but what about the big hawgs that follow cisco around? We have tons of Cisco, and the fish are right down there with them...All the time!! Will they just move DOWN rather than up after replenishing their system with DO? (sounds like an odor rather than a good thing) |
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| VMS, no need to get right down to the thermocline with your baits. When you fish an 8 foot flat... do you grind your baits on the bottom? Well, maybe sometimes... but you get my point. If the thermocline is 18 feet down, then getting your lure down 10 feet is plenty.
As for the muskies following the cisco.... usually cisco based lakes have high dissolved oxygen levels... even at greater depths. Therefore, they don't need to "come up for air" so to speak.
I fish a lot of deep water... but I don't fish deep. |
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| Not much of a cisco expert, 90% of my fishing is done in a flowage system without them. So, keep in mind that’s my base of reference when speculating.
Do the ciscoes move up in the water column a night? Perhaps this is when the muskies follow them up and put my theory to work when eating them?
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| VMS,
Do you have to get your lure down 16-18 feet to effectively fish the thermocline that is at 16-18 feet??????????
EDIT: Darn! Jason beat me too it. Dont you ever work Jason?
MUSKY ILLINI
"SHHHEEEEIT NEEEEGRO,you sendin the WOLF, thats all you had to say" |
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| Jason and M.I,
I would agree that you do not need to have your bait in the thermocline all the time..but if the thermocline is the column of water that is the best for the fish, it would make sense to fish it more. My thinking here is that not every fish is going to be in a positive mode while in the thermocline. so..the closer I am, the better my chances of contacting more fish, that may not follow or bite with a bait a certain distance above the thermocline. Result (or at least the hope of it) is more fish...
Steve
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| VMS,
I see where you are coming from... and it makes sense. The reason I do not follow that approach myself is because it ASSUMES that MORE fish are located IN the thermocline than those that may be above it. I do not want to present my lure below a muskie... so I choose to error on the SHALLOW side so I have a chance at some of the shallower fish. As you may have noticed, I have a paradigm that muskies will not go down for a lure. Where I get that idea from, I have no clue. Perhaps that paradigm is costing me a few fish every season? |
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| Just a tank observation here...(may or may not apply)
Each week when I feed my 24 inch tiger and the 22 inch pike, they both will turn to a fish that is right on the bottom...and they will strike, sometimes taking up a few rocks in the snoot as they do it. Funny thing though...they miss alot down there since they cannot focus on the food by sight.
I would agree though on the belief that a muskie would be more apt to move upward for food rather than down....kind of like the low follower....it can keep it's eye on the food.
Maybe the target area should be along the top edge of the thermo, rather than right through the middle of it. It's only about a 2 foot layer anyway..
Steve |
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| VMS, that is some good info. Looks like muskies will travel down in the water column to get a meal. With that in mind.... I wonder when it is better to contact bottom versus keeping a lure up near the surface? Perhaps it is whichever is closest to the fish?
Obviously a fish suspended 15 feet down over 70 feet of water... grinding bottom would be less effective. BUT, would that fish be more likely to strike a lure at 20 feet (5 feet below the fish) or a lure only 5 feet deep (10 feet above the fish)?
In my opinion... typically suspended fish are in clear water environments and are more VISUAL predators... so a lure positioned above should be more effective than below. What do you think????????
..... and which is easier for a fish to detect in shallow water, a crankbait grinding on the bottom or a surfacebait? More food for thought..... |
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| One of my latest dicoveries in envoirmental changes that triggers fish movement is the passing of a front. Say it has been cloudy all day and just toward the end of the late afternoon the clouds move out and the sun starts shinning.
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| Interesting topic,my perception of water colum fish may vary from many.
The high feeders tell me the atmosperic pressures fine.Bottom huggers tell me she is uncomfortable just like stepping on ones head.This happens all summer till the turn over or cooling effect starts.
Then I beleive water density is the enviromental trigger factors.
They all hug the bottom,Till she reaches aprox 37 degrees then they all come up.MMMM Bet RK knows where I am heading with this.
To understand enviromental factors that trigger fish,you have to understand how the fish relate to its enviroment(wind,weather,water density,atmospheric pressure).
Remember their swim bladders are unique.
The only thing I am not sure of is if atmospheric pressure changes slightly water density during summer months?I assume it may vary a little.VMS you aproached this thinking with your response. |
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| I'll see if I can find anything that would relate water pressure to atmospheric.... Here come the physics books..
Steve |
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EVIRONMENTAL TRIGGERS