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Posts: 3868
| Man, where did the fish go? I fish a 300 acre lake with two distinct basins divided by a weedy/sand flat about thats about 50yardsX100yards. Surface temp is currently around 85*. Lots of pleasure boats and some muskie fishing pressure. Nice weedy drops, with cabbage in some areas, both basins have large deep flats, 45' deep in the big basin and 25' deep in the smaller basin. I prefished it for 14 hours getting ready for a match and then 16 hours during the match. During the match, I fished from midnight till 8:00am and then from late afternoon till midnight again. Not one wink of a muskie. At the end of the match I kept fishing for 2 more hours and then hit the Q-beam to check out the drops and the big flat on my way back to the landing. Not one muskie was seen. TONS of baitfish, clouds of stunted gills roam the lake. I only trolled deeper water with Depthraiders and DDD's about 15% of the time and I think I should have spent more time doing that. I spent most of my time casting shallow water with big hair (night) and suicks (day), and the drops to open water with heavy spinnerbaits (night) and cranks (day and night).
Tough every year at this time. Besides going to a different lake, what would you suggest????
Thanks! |
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Posts: 1270
Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | This time of the year I like to target the basin edge, where the hard bottom turns to mud. I'll try to stay on the edge and cast out over the mud, slow and deep. I think a lot of insect activity is taking place in the mud and drawing the baitfish; perch, gills, suckers,etc. My favorite lure for this is a 3 oz. spinner bait with a single #7 willow blade. Slow and steady retrieve. |
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Posts: 2361
| Difficult to comment without further info on temp range. 300 acre but what kind of depths and what type of water. If you are at 85 degree surface temps and temps to thermocline(not knowing if there is one or not) are up in the upper 70's you may just have a problem of somewhat dormant fish in the warm water. I would be there when the temp starts dropping.
I would try and establish if there was any well oxygenated water in the mid 70's or below and I would start at that level and fish down until I hit no oxygen. |
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Posts: 3868
| Thanks for the suggestions.
Thermo is at 14-16' on both basins. Very clear water, thanks to the zebras. |
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| If you have very clear water the thermocline is probably a lot deeper than 14-16 feet. Most clear lakes in N Wisconsin have the thermocline over 20 feet deep. How are you determining thermocline?
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Water clarity isn't the main driver for the depth at which the thermocline sets up. Its more related to to lake morphology (size and shape) and how much mixing is achieved via the WIND. Or so I've been told..... 
I've been struggling this summer as well. From what I can tell... either night fish or getting down low with your presentation has been best (unfortunately I'm just passing along other's success and not mine).
If you can't get down where they are hiding.... I suggest hoping for the early fall cool-down to kick in.
Good Luck.
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Posts: 5874
| Howie calls it the thermal refuge. Just fish it! |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'm finding the fish on smaller lakes that thermocline at 12 to 14 feet ( NC Wisconsin) in about 10, RIGHT on the thermocline littoral edge. Same with the walleyes, I am currently slamming them. If there is any cover in that zone, the fish could be there. I see most anglers hitting the shallows in mid 80 degree stuff, or suspended hunting for some reason not looking at that thermocline level. |
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Posts: 216
Location: Belleville, WI | Steve - what do you mean by the thermocline littoral edge? And how do I know where the thermocline level is? Or if there is one? |
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Posts: 2361
| Ranger - 8/10/2006 11:57 PM
Thanks for the suggestions.
Thermo is at 14-16' on both basins. Very clear water, thanks to the zebras.
Well then the next question would be is the lake a two story lake? (is there oxygen below the thermocline?)
If you take lakes down here, Cave Run thermoclines probably was at less than 20 feet a short while ago, and has zero oxygen below the thermocline, and no fish. I fish a lake near me which probably thermoclines but is 110 feet deep and sterile, and has trout down below the thermocline, and oxygen.
If the water below the thermocline has no oxygen, it does set the lower limit on fish life during the summer. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I can see the thremocline clearly on the graph, looks like a smudgy dark mass above the bottom reading. In 22', the 'smudge' comes all the way up to 12'. Of course if you step down the sensitivity, you can eliminate that reading, but then you ARE blind.
The thermocline on George is 12' right now. The 11' line ALL THE WAY around the shore and on top of humps is where the fish have been for me on that water, for example. That lake is not 'two story' as FSF has asked, so very little oxygen under the thermocline level. |
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| The thermocline littoral edge is the deepest part of the lake that still has rooted vegetation due to the depth that sunlight can penetrate.
Unless I am mis-interpreting your statement Mr. Long, water clarity IS the most important factor in thermocline development. I understand that mixing that goes on with current from water flow and wind but without sunlight the water cannot gain energy. That is why Mr. Worral has a thermocline at 12 feet on his lake as it is very dark in color and has reduced light penetration. Now jump up to Presque Isle which is ultra clear. Secchi disc readings in the mid to upper 20 feet in recent years would translate into thermoclines in excess of 40 feet. ( I am using the Wisconsin lake monitoring report factor of 1.7 x secchi depth reading to determine sunlight penetration. )
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/lakes/Selfhelp/Reports/reportsselec...
Correct me if I am wrong.
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Posts: 3868
| Thank you all, great tips. I use the finder to find the thermo, I crank up the contrast as Steve described. I'm guessing there is oxygen below the thrermo because there are plenty of fish hanging out around patches of deep weeds, particularly a stretch of patches in the 24-26' range of the deeper basin. Also, using my zoom, I'm seeing scattered fish holding on the very bottom all the way to the 45' max.
Last time out, I tried pinpoint fishing deep structure, straight down next to the boat, using a heavy walleye jig to which I added a small stinger hook. I was using Berkley Power grubs and a 5" sucker minnow. Like wintertime, I watched the jig on my finder as well as how the fish were relating to it. I only did this for an hour or so but I got zero interest. (I was hoping to luck into a big walleye, but no soap.)
Next time out, I'm going to try trolling baits right above the thermo and do it at night. I may try the jig deal (w/ sucker minnow) again because it's pretty fun to watch the bait and fish. I'll try jigging where the thermo meets the sloping dropoffs, always weedy at that level all the way around both basins.
THANKS AGAIN!! |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Jim, I still believe that MIXING is the key for thermocline development... moreso than water clarity. Some of my favorite 200 acre gin bottles rarely develop a thermocline deeper than 12-14 feet.... and some have a secci reading of 16+ feet. These same lakes are usually the LAST to turnover in the fall too.
Lakes with big, open basins mix better from the wind... and usually have a deeper thermocline... regardless of water clarity. Some lakes never develop a thermocline due to this mixing. Its also why some lakes "turnover" earlier than others. Lake size, shape and depth seem to be the predominant factors. Color or clarity may play a minor role... but I'm not sure its any more than that.
Fishing the structures that are JUST above the thermocline as Worrall discusses is always a good strategy in August.... but this year it seems you gotta get your bait down there too. They just don't want to come UP for your offerings... making it even tougher than most years. I wish I had the discipline to go down after them.  |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have seen the same thing, Mr. Long. Look at George; the fish are in just 11 or 12 feet, only 2/3 the length of my boat. If they are on the edge of the thermocline near the bottom, I can't seem to get them to look over a topwater or a glider. Sure, when the light is down and the fish move shallower, that is a different story.
I have had some success slow rolling a big spinnerbait and have caught a couple fish on jigs when they are tight to the structure. I don't think it will be an issue much longer; temps on Moen were 73.5 yesterday capped off by a cold rain last evening and cool temps the next couple nights. The fish we moved and caught yesterday were in 2.5' of water or less mid day. |
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Warm Water Summer Doldrums - Tips Anyone?