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| Anyone use big baits? Curious if anyone has used large baits (14 inch plus) for muskie fishing and what type of luck you have had and with which baits.
Examples
Musky Snax
http://www.muskysnax.com/home.html
Wishmaster
http://www.wishmasterbigbaits.com
Grunts
http://www.gruntmuskielures.com
Danczyk
http://www.danczyk-lures.com/BigTrollingLures.html
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I build a very cool 12,15 and 21 inch deepdiver. The TALONZ DEEPTHREAT. See them at our website. Kingfisher |
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| Most of those big lures seem expensive for just a few more inches. Anyone below $50? Those $300 Wishmasters look nice though! If they come with a 50inch muskie I will take one!! |
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Posts: 1335
Location: Chicago, Beverly | Lot of work behind these baits.. Muskiefool makes two big ones, a SB Derby Diver and a Mayeye that just into the wood working he may have say 40 hours into(not sure if Fool's 40 is with or without paint)?? then you get into painting... it adds up quick on big baits... then say he lets it go for $100, thats $2.50 an hour he made not counting material and tools... so when its broke down like that it makes those $200+ baits seem not quite as bad with their prices.. also makes me think a lot of baitmakers are not in it for the money also.... |
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| It's about 40hrs to do the entire bait(Way To Picky), but I have found a few ways to save some time without sacrificing any quality, my original intent was to make them for under a yard note but there is no way when just material for big baits is around 50, are they worth the price well that's up to the individual, the most affordable Hand made Big Baits Ive seen have been Grunts and WoodieB8's Thumper, That bait is incredible, Outlaw makes a heck of a bait, the thing Pounds like a pile driver, also No Box makes a very good bait for a decent price with paint that will blow your mind, he is a artist first lure maker second, definite must see baits that are producing fish, http://www.noboxlures.com/ ,Wishmasters, WoodieB8's,and No Box are all fish producing big baits, mine will be getting allot of water time this fall and hopefully putting a few monsters in hand with a Lil help from my friends, if you want to know specifics about other big baits go to http://muskytooth.com and PM Dadson he has more big baits than anyone on the planet, if you would like WoodieB8's conact PM me.
Good Luck
Fool
Edited by Muskiefool 8/4/2006 3:22 PM
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| 40hrs! Yikes! I assume these are made in the winter unless you guys don't fish much  I doubt that is the case. Good job on making these big baits. I woudl never have the skill or paicentscccsest to do this. I can however make money another way and buy them from you guys! Thanks
brent |
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| brent if we calculated man hours you would be amazed. then theres the material and all the other good stuff. we at woodie baits do custom work 12 inchers up to a 22. our standard lines are in the 6-9 inch range. after that plateau all custom makers as above pour man hours into a quality product built for specific applications. hence the cost. |
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| I love the big custom lures...be it cranks or glide baits. I've had good luck with them and as far as I'm concerned worth every penny. |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | 40 HRS????? PER LURE???. Sounds like you need a machine or two. It takes me about 40 hours to make 12 --- 12 inch Deepthreats. I make them in racks of 6 . The bodies are made on a shaper which is both fast and acurate. The wood is not expensive its Cedar not gold. The wire for the wire thru is .078 stainless. I bought 50 lbs. I can make about 500 lures with that much wire. It cost me 59 bucks. the lips are cut by water CAD. I pay about 2.00 per lip for 1/4" lexan. Materials into a 12" Deepthreat about 5 dollars. Time about 55 dollars each. I sell them for 60.00 each. Three coats of envirotec. 54 inch georgian bay fish came on one of my baits. 52" michigan fish on one of my baits. Every one of my 2006 12 and 15 inch lures ran true and thumped like hell. I will be running a dozen of them this fall on some deep water in northerm Michigan as soon as the Whitefish stage for the spawn. If a guy wants to make money at lure making he needs to find ways to streamline his processes. Here are some ways to cut time and improve your quality and consistancy. #1- do not make your own diving lips especilly big ones. It cost me 50 bucks to have a guy program his water jet cutter to cut all my big lips. He now cuts them for 59 cents each and is acurate to .002 inch. I but quarter sheets of lexan and drop it off once or twice per year. I get the lips with backing paper still attached total about 2 dollars per lip. #2 Make your first pattern by hand then learn how to make a Jig. Cut your blanks so fast it would make your head spin. I can cut 500 blanks in two days. Also in the same token do your work in steps. While my guy is making my lips I am cutting my blanks for the coming year. Normally 200 blanks. I do this in one day. With my blanks cut I take 12 to the shaper table and rout the edges and true with a belt sander. Hand sand for the finishing touches. Drill for wire thru. Paint on sanding sealer let dry and paint white base coats. The trick to speed is doing a lot of baits at one time. When I was doing one lure at a time it was dog slow and very taxing . I have also learned the very important lesson of dedicating a machine for one job and one job only. I have one saw for Just lip slots. It is never changed so it never goes out of whack. I have a shaper table for my Little Claws,another for my Slashers and a third for My big baits. All are locked down and do one job. Set ups are what kill your time or waste it I should say. If any of you have ever seen the inside of John Mulliets shop in Fair Haven Michigan you will know what Im talking about. He makes over 3,000 Lokes per year and he is in his late 70's . I learned a lot from his work. Make Jigs, patterns and router bits. Thats how he does it. I have made some of my own bits to get certain curves and belly contours. All these things will get you into that 10 to 20 baits per week range when talking big lures. In the last two weeks I Made 72 Slashers,24 Little Claws and two 12 inch Daredevils. All completed and shipped. The slashers go for 20 bucks a pop and the Claws go for 15. The spoons went for 64 dollars. If I could post a picture I would show you guys the biggest spoons in the Pike world today. Any way what Im saying is not only will you improve your quality and be more consistant with your lures you will start making money AND be able to offer them at prices guys will pay . Mine are 60.00 per 12inch 75.00 per 15inch and 125.00 per 21inch. Thats half the price of a Wishmaster and they look just as sweeet!!!. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Im going to try posting some pics.
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 big 12inch.JPG (16KB - 263 downloads)
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | That was an 8 ounce 12inch spoon. Here is a 12 inch lake trout pattern on a spoon/
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12inchlaker.JPG (21KB - 342 downloads)
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Here several of my personal 12" Deepthreats. These are workin girls you guys they go deep and like it  . Kingfisher
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laker.JPG (15KB - 280 downloads)
pike.JPG (16KB - 276 downloads)
Pikeclose.JPG (20KB - 328 downloads)
workin girls.JPG (23KB - 336 downloads)
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I suck at taking pictures. They look far better in real life. The cool thing is they are all identicle to a point. All hand made lures will have a little of thier own personality and mine are no exception to this rule. The common factors are Lip angle,body shape and size,thickness and weight. The variables are colors, belly weight, and number of clear coats. You can see a lot of my stuff at www.protacklemuskyshop.com or at my website. Most of my stuff is running in Canada right now on georgian Bay, the Larry and the Ottawa. We are planning on using them this fall in the St Clair and Detroit rivers. Also maybe a trip to Buffalo Harbour. My hats off to all the other big bait makers. We build adventures. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 1188
Location: Iowa | I used to have a 19" Kingfisher Talonz in a Salmon color...man did that thing dredge the depths...I ended up selling it because it was a little too much for me...great quality baits though...I know someone that has a custom 21" Talonz in a lake trout pattern that is freaking incredible...here are some pics from the guys site...the 21" is on top...the 19" I bought from him is in the middle and 12" is on the bottom...
Big Perc
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Talonz.jpg (45KB - 731 downloads)
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | You have the process down Kingfisher, I have to hand it to you. The thing I have never been able to do quickly is to get the baits shaped to where I want them. I hate router lines and spend a bunch of time trying to eliminate them. I think if a guy has just the right router bit it helps considerably but the roundover bits I have are either too small or too big to eliminate the router lines on the sides of the bait and so I end up spending a fair amount of time getting rid of them. I can cut them quickly, router them, but then they always need enough sanding to to where it takes me a number of hours to get things "just right".
Your deep running cranks are awesome!!
jed v. |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | For Big Perk, that 19 Inch you refer to was actully a 15" early model 19" with the lip. I have streamlined the new 15 inch models body to make it more slippery. Not as tall as the early models. That color is called SMOKED FISH . That is HR Johnny Dadsons 21 inch Lake trout 27 inches with the LIP. The lips are 3/8th Lexan and cost me about 10 dollars each. I have to make my own Bits or modify factory bits. I have a place that can grind carbide(diamond wheel) . These big shaper bits are very friggin dangerous. You could loose several fingers in a thousandths of a second. At 20,000 rpm there is no time to react. Great care should be taken when working with these machines. Personally I dont think its nessasary to fish a lure bigger than 12" . Captain Rich Clark gets it done with 10 inch lures all the time. Look him up with a search Rich Clark Muskie charters. Hes on the ten thousand Island area of the Larry. Many fish over 40 lbs. I pull my 12's and sometimes my 15's but catch more fish on 10 and 12 inch lures. Im working on a 10 inch Slasher and a 10 inch Deepthreat. It was HR JOHNNY that got me making the 21 incher. He likes the huge lures and catches fish on them. Remember the 65 lb Olsen Fish from Georgian Bay. It was caught on a stinkin little rapala 5 inches. I thinks its more important to place a lure in the right place than to drag three pounds of wood all over creation waiting for something to eat it. But hey, I build adventures and pulling a 21 inch deepthreat is an adventure all by itself . Kingfisher |
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| 
I've had this one up to about 6 mph.
It'll go deeeeeeeep. |
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| gotta agree with kingfisher. size is always not everything . in life and baits.. i have a few well known ottawa river guides that run the woodie thumper 9 inch. with many fish in the 40lb class i cant argue. i have seen many 50 inch fish caught on our smaller 6 1/4 incher here on st clair. so in closing its up to the big girls. my personal favorites are under 10 inches. |
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| Hats off to you King, from what I hear you make a hell of a bait, yep up to forty hrs but I'm working on getting a duplicator to cut that time down dramatically, till then it's one blank at a time, it took many hours and much criticism to get this one bait to where it performs like it does, as you know finding a 20+" bait that can run out to the max speed (10MPH+)at depths of 10-20-30' without blowing out or jumping around ain't easy with a new original design, I would love to see your operation and take a note or two but it seems that very few bait makers are as open minded and generous with info as are WoodieB8's,Riverman,NoBox,yourself and I are, and are truly willing to help, some guys just turn their back on you when they find out you make baits or produce something they don't understand, or they just become condescending, it is true that 6-9" baits produce the bulk of fish and that 14" is probably the most productive size of the big baits, for very good reason most people don't pull 15+" baits yet, but times are changing, and if you can make a 20+ bait pull like a 14 then more will start to use them and more fish will be caught on monster baits.
Edited by Muskiefool 8/14/2006 12:00 AM
(Goby angle Prof web 1.jpg)
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Goby angle Prof web 1.jpg (76KB - 494 downloads)
ZAFTIG 1 1st.jpg (83KB - 257 downloads)
ZAFTIG2 1st.jpg (65KB - 265 downloads)
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Wow, definate artistry there. That black and white with the bleeding eyes would take me 40 hours just to paint it. Very cool design and a definate original. I can see where the hours would go into building it. I made a desision in January of this year to make lures for a living and have had to curb my desire to create for a While. With my Little Claw and my 12,15 and 21" Deepthreats all working well I turned my attention to Lake St. Clair. I wanted to come up with a lure for 20 bucks that would become one of the top producers on the lake. We are watching the The Talonz Slasher do just that. I started with a body wider than it was tall like a Believer. This makes the lure want to sit upright even without hooks. I didnt want to to get carried away with the head so I stretched out the nose of a terminater(made it longer). My machining methods gave me the same type of tail that the Loke has. None of my competitors had a 7 inch lure so I made it 7 inches on the nose. I tried both round and square lips and now have a custom lip made for me by Jerry Podmarsky that is squared. The wood is Power pole red Cedar. The wood comes from huge power poles cut by my wood guy with a portable saw mill. These custom boards are a large part of my system. Start with the width and thickness you need. The lure is not a fast lure meaning it panics or wanders at a good mid speed. We have been pounding multiple muskies including a 9 fish day with two rods at 4.3 mph gps. One sweet option is I can get more speed just by putting a heavier hook at the belly position. This adds another 1 mph but why go 5.3 when they bite like hell at 4.3? The result is a Crank that trolls in the top 7 feet at about 4 to 5 mph with a serious wander pattern that even Lokes cant match. The best ones Ive tested run about 2.5 feet off of the center line 6 feet behind a 2 oz mini ball. Thats 5 feet of wander. So in a sense I took three baits and combined the best features of each one and created a hybred. Its easy to make , has great fish catching action and sells for enough money to be profitable. Next year Ill add 10 and 12 inch versions . Ill post a picture of one jointed and one straight. also a few of our stranger prototypes. It will be a new post though as this one is getting slow to load. Kingfisher |
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| thanks for the info!but beleive me your talonz quality are realy not the same than the wish,they are not expansive for nothing |
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Posts: 571
Location: Williamstown, WV | There should be a requirement to be able to post a response. Either you have to have a 4th grade education or you have to be a member. What "Dick" posted pretty much dissing Talonz baits is uncalled for. Kingfisher you have awesome baits at a great price and some great paint jobs at that. Don't listen to people who are not members.
Shawn |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | I agree 100%.
"Dick" has done the same thing to me and it's just a waste of bandwidth.
I also agree that setting up your tools to do one specific job will save a ton of time. I am like Jed though in that I spend a lot of time sanding after using my router to make the finish just right. I'm not too wrapped in mass production as I tend to be at the "boutique" end of the lure making spectrum and part of that allure is that you can't just buy one at your local shop.
I could certainly alter my own designs to make them faster and cheaper to make but then I'd be selling just another generic bait which the world already has more than enough of. My hats off to the guys that stick to their guns and make the baits that they would want to buy. Customers are getting smarter and more educated all the time especially with the internet and most people know that a pretty paint job only goes so far. The baits have to walk the walk first and foremost.
The basement bait makers that post here are incredibly talented and if I could afford it, I'd be one of everything they sell to show my appreciation for the time and skill they put in. |
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Posts: 1188
Location: Iowa | Way to go Dick...you obviously know what you are talking about...I have used or seen used the next four lures makers baits and have yet to be let down...Snax, you have some of the best finished baits I have ever seen with a sweet action...Wishmasters have an incredible finish and an unbelievable action as well...Talonz are awesome in the own wright with capabilites of dredging to the true depths without blowing out...and Trueglides are incredible both action and finish as well...they are all different baits with different actions and the craftsmanship on each of them is hands down the best you will ever see both in quality and appearance..its like comparing apples to oranges...so keep talking Dick...Great job guys...keep the baits coming...these baits all take a beating to keep going without missing a beat...
Big Perc |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Thanks Perc, much appreciated.
Tigger has really impressed me lately with his combination of using foil and then his colour matching abilities. Really nice workmanship and his baits all look like Tigger baits if you know what I mean. Muskie Fool has some of the most unique designs I've ever seen and his originality is mind blowing to say the least!!!
Thanks again to the good folks here at MuskieFirst for allowing us all to showcase our baits. Without your generous exposure we'd stay in the basements and never make any progress. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Musky Snax Mike does a fantastic job! He has GREAT customer service as well. I ordered a replacement walleye for the one that my buddy had lost and when I got it, although it still looked amazing it was a bit different than my original, which was no fault of Mike's. So I emailed him and explained my problem and he gladly made me a different one off a picture of my old one. I sent him back the walleye and he sent me back another one.
By the way Mike, that new one you got me is AWESOME!! I tossed a good amount out on Okauchee and that thing just looked real! The guy I was fishing with loved it. We also think we might have moved a big girl from deep with it. Just saw a shadow though so not entirely sure!
Muskiefool, those things look awesome....what is a price on one of them? |
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | Well since this is talking about big lures i guess i outa show my partners custom suick! 14 " long,not sure on the weight Great action!
The only problem i found with it is the metal lip he used in the rear is to thin and bends to easy!
Edited by pamuskyhunter 1/3/2007 5:01 PM
(14inch custom suick 001.jpg)
(14inch custom suick 002.jpg)
(14inch custom suick 003.jpg)
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14inch custom suick 001.jpg (39KB - 295 downloads)
14inch custom suick 002.jpg (35KB - 334 downloads)
14inch custom suick 003.jpg (29KB - 285 downloads)
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | My GOD!!! That has some wicked big fish potential!!! I'm not a big fan of the design of Suicks but that one is awesome. |
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | well thanx alot,my friend is going to show me how to make them!
I don't really like suicks at all either,but they do catch fish!
He was talking today about making a 20" version of a suick!
I cant wait to see that. |
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Posts: 399
Location: Burton, Ohio | Wow snax! Thanks for the kind words.
You guys make some amazing baits!
Those Big baits are incredible things. I have tried some recently. They are alot of work! I have never made them before and there is alot to think about out on them. This monster is close to a pound! 1-1/2" thick and out of hardwood. I can see the cedar has an advantage to weight. I have not had it in the boat yet. I casted it out and and hit the bottom in 12 feet real fast in about 25 feet of retrieve. It bottomed out in the mud! It runs true but I don't know how deep yet. We do not have ice here in Ohio. None for the weekend. I will try it out I hope.
Take care
John |
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Posts: 399
Location: Burton, Ohio |
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DSC02415bigperch.jpg (66KB - 2158 downloads)
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Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | Tony,
I don't know if it is legal to have 4 hooks on a lure in Pennsylvania. You may want to check that. Nice suick, and just a thought. |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | If that is the case, I would remove the tail hooks as Muskies tend to grab larger prey from the side and towards the head. Smaller baits will often just get inhaled any which way.
Tigger, no thanks needed for recieving the complements you deserve. All of us have our own twist that makes us stand out and your foil and colour schemes are awesome! I'm almost tempted to try making a foil pattern but that is something that you have really perfected and I'm not going to just copy your style. Tempting though cause they look really #*^@ good!!! |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | Big baits have there time and place. I fish them as much as possible as I have confidence in them. Kingfisher,I have to get a hold of a couple of those spoons in Lake Trout!! WOW!
Here is a pic of a shallow running(6ft) speed trolling lure(got her up to 11mph). Next to a big stalker......
Joe
Trueglide.com
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | Big baits have there time and place. I fish them as much as possible as I have confidence in them. Kingfisher,I have to get a hold of a couple of those spoons in Lake Trout!! WOW!
Here is a pic of a shallow running(6ft) speed trolling lure(got her up to 11mph). Next to a big stalker and Dadson's 20" Custom.....
Joe
Trueglide.com
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Slugger compare.JPG (71KB - 465 downloads)
20inch troller.JPG (21KB - 312 downloads)
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| Great Looking Baits!
Quite enjoyed this thread...
Johnny |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Joe those are wicked dude! Love the eyes in particular. |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | Thanks Snax!
I lucked out and was able to buy thousands of eyes up to 35mm at a factory that was closing down. I also purchased the molds. Although, the ones I have tried haven't turned out as nice.
HRJ- You going to Chicago this year? |
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | i dont use it in PA i use it in maryland! Thanx for the headup though |
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| nice color joe.i like the big stalker style |
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| I will see you there Joe. |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Here is the head and side view of my latest 15 inch Deepthreat. This is a new and much improved lure from a couple years ago. The bait is not as tall in the belly area making it balance much much better. These will run over 6 mph with no added weight. Not a rock smasher but still very tough with Oak reinforcing in the head behind the lip. They will not split when accidently hitting boulders at 5 mph. The lure measures 15 inches from nose to tail. The lip is 1/4 inch Lexan,wire is .078 stainless half hard 302. Very sweet runners. Kingfisher
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head.JPG (17KB - 351 downloads)
body.JPG (14KB - 275 downloads)
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Location: big cove tannery pa | nice very nice
Is that a lake trout patteren? |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Yes 15 inch Lake trout. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I had not noticed the Dick post . Hes right you know. My Deepthreats are not the same quality as a Wishmaster. Rolf is willing to wet sand 20 coats of polymer to make the finish on a wishmaster second to none. I just said mine look as good Wishmasters will take out a boat propeller and never touch the wood. That is why his lure is 250 to 290 bucks. If I put 20 coats of polymer on one of mine it would be as tough and cost just as much money. I have one with a Titanium Lip that has 8 coats of wet sanded envirotec that you can split wood with. Its as tough as a lure needs to be . Dick has his opinion hes entitled to it. Most of us know what works and what sells and what works and sells. Im loving some of the jobs you other guys are doing,Snax, Fat fingers, Tigger, Grunts, Novac, Joe (true glide)50 or so others Ive missed. The guys getting into FOIL work remind me of the old days when my mother did gold leafing on Weathervanes. Man that is artistry. My goal is to Build Lures that the every day guy can take out and catch Muskies with. My big baits get tougher every year as more guys ask for extra coats of etec or oak reinforcment. More guys are asking for lures that can stand an entire year of bashing rock. That is a brutal test of your babies. Take one of your baits and run it into a rock pile when the water temps are cold(48) watch the polymer explode and the lip split the body like firewood. My hats off to Rolf(Wishmaster) he builds a friggin tank and has helped me on several occasions when I was starting out. His finish is really the standard in toughness. The closer I get to that quality the better. But I have to keep costs down to stay competitive so I am at three coats of envirotec now and have not raised my prices. I found other ways to speed up other steps without losing quality. A little more speed in the machining end and Ill be up to 5 coats of etec for the same price as three. Its all about getting better and staying affordable. All you guys are doing some awsome stuff. I miss this site when Im off working and dont have time to post. Keep up the great work everyone, Kingfisher
Edited by Kingfisher 1/5/2007 7:41 PM
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Musky Snax made a comment that I have to second. Thank you Muskies first for giving us this forum to showcase our Lures. You guys are the best on the net and my favorite stop when Im out surfing the musky world. Thanks guys. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | A great way to show that appreciation is to donate a bait or two for a special event. I wish I could give more to truly show my gratitude but I have to pay the bills first! 
We are all gratefull for any website that allows these kinds of posts. Sadly many sites don't and ultimately they lose out because the more baits we sell, the more we are able to give back. |
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| dont worry king i like your lures :)thanks for the reply |
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Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | Dick,
I love big baits and fish with them as much as possible when conditions warrant their use. Wishmasters are really an impressive lure. My hats off to Rolf, a nice guy and great builder, but how many guys can afford to run $250 to $350 lures??? Really........
Losing one on a snag would certainly put a crimp in your trip.
Just one mans opinion, but Jeezzzz i can't justify that cost. |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I really dont think anyone has to justify the cost. What Rolf sells is an indestructable lure that will last for hundreds of trips and days of pounding. For someone who fishes this type of lure all the time there is no question that the Wishmaster is the best choice. Rolf explains how to build a lure retriever to make sure you dont lose your investment. Now on the other hand there are a lot more guys like me who build a big bait that is more affordable for the guy who makes a couple trips to big bait waters per year. If I were going to georgian bay for one week and it was the only week I would ever have to go in my life would I buy 4 wishmasters for 1000 bucks or four of my baits for 240? Both run great and both catch fish. The difference is one will out last the other. The truth is most of us dont have the water in our back yards to warrent owning Wishmasters. So we buy less expensive ones so we can still take a few shots at those world record fish and not have to sit home with 3 grand in 12 lures hanging on the wall. Its that simple. If I were fishing Georgian bay three days per week or guiding clients on this body of water where banging rock is the way to catch fish I would be pulling Wishmasters . But there are more guys out there who have a week or two every year who can still take a few shots with big baits and not kill the pocket book. Another fact to consider is that One of my Deepthreats or a Frankie bait will last just as long as a Wishmaster if you keep it off the rocks. So on Lake erie or Buffalo Harbor where you troll for suspended fish and do not contact the bottom whos lure is the better choice there? Legend Plows catch a ton of fish in Buffalo harbor but explode on contact with the rocks of Georgian bay. Same with Hooker baits. I could sell 20- 12 to 15 inch deepdivers per week if I could get the price down to 40 bucks each. I watched Legend sell out in three hours at Pittsburg in 2002 at 45 bucks per plow. My booth was right next to them. It was humbling. I had 100 guys pick up a deepthreat and say wow are these nice and go next door and buy three Plows. Three plows 135.00, two Deepthreats 120.00 I think My 12 and 15 inch baits from 2006 and 2007 are tougher than both the Plow and the Hooker bait. and whats really cool is I can custom make one for anybody that will take all the abuse they want including oak reinforcment in the nose,oak dowel glued in thru the lip, lead behind the lip etc. Hooker and legend dont do that. I know it will never happen but I think Rolf should make a more affordable version of the Wishmaster for the average guys to buy. Maybe only 5 coats of finish for 100 bucks eh? Just Kidding Rolf . The paint jobs out there today are way better than they were even in 2002. Thats just a few years ago. So any way Im going to keep trying to find ways to get my prices down and still build a better lure than the production Plastics. The public wants quality at an affordable price and I aim to give it to them. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | I say hold out for what you believe they are worth. We can never compete with mass produced baits and compromising any aspect of your baits will only devalue them.
There will always be people who won't spend more than $30 on a lure and there will always be people with money who will appreciate the time and effort put into a hand made custom bait and gladly pay you what you ask. |
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Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | Mike,
I am saying exactly what your saying. I really like Wish's, but just can't spend that coin on a lure i could lose in a flash. I am not bashing them. Your right, if he made a lure that was in my price range, i would own it. Everyone doesn't drive a Mercedes, atleast i dont. Peace, PS
Snax, i own your baits and really like them. There is a ton of distance between a bait that cost $50 and one that cost $350... You gotta see where i'm com'in from. How many dudes on this site own wish's? And this is hardcore.......When i look at Rolfs site, he is sold out, so i guess he is definitely smarter than me.
Edited by Pikiespawn 1/6/2007 8:51 PM
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| Nicely said King |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I must stress though,Im not willing to cut quality to get my prices down. The real test for me is find ways to shape my wood and cure my top coats faster and more acurately. My number one issue is and has always been finish sanding my blanks which I still do by hand with 60 grit paper . John at Loke does not do any finishing sanding because his machining is that acurate. He puts a block of wood on his shaper runs it through with the jig and cuts it off. Hes done right there. Then he glues the two halves together and paints. My Shaping gets me real close but I still have to sand in the noses and gill areas of my big baits. A C.N.C. machine would solve all my shaping problems but those suckers are very expensive even for an old one. The market is just not that big to warrant buying one. So Im learning more about Bit Making for my Shapers. With a Deepthreat I might have to use two separate Shapers to do the machining one for the top and one for the belly. I warn anyone who starts working with these big router/shaper bits to use (extreme caution) as they spin at 20,000 rpm and can toss a wood splinter right thru a person. Using leather and safety shields are a must. John Mulliet is in his 70;s and shapes his 12 inchers on an open shaper. The bit that cuts those halves is over 2 inches across 1 " radius The biggest one Im using now is a 3/4 radius which is why I still have to sand. I believe that combining Johns machining skills with Rolfs finishing skills will be the way to get the best quality for the best price. John doesnt let anyone see his bits or shaper tables so its trial and error for me(lots of error). I would also like to find a way to inject premixed epoxy with some kind of large disposable syrynge. but alas the epoxy glues are so thick that cheap disposable syryinges are not able to push the glue out. Filling the hook hanger holes and ends where the wire enters the wood is still time consuming and messy. I might have to look to a steel syrynge that gets tossed in a bucket of thinner after use.clean up takes time though as well. Oh well Im rambling again. Kingfisher |
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| Pikie,
I'm a student and I have 10 Wishmasters... priorities man!
HAHAHA |
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Posts: 786
Location: Minnesota | King,
$20 will buy you one of these stainless syringe models. Would allow you to hit it with a small amount of heat to lower the viscosity of your epoxy. I have used these types for high viscosities. I would think you coudl also use low viscosity epoxy resin for your internal work... Just a thought. The smaller syringes do come in high pressure models but, they do cost about $100-$150 from what I coudl find. Some require external syringe pumps. You can find those on eBay sometimes under medical supplies or analytical equipment.
James
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Large Ear.jpg (29KB - 269 downloads)
cr stainless.jpg (19KB - 293 downloads)
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Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | HR,
Yeah, i shouldn't cry....... I'll just sell my old explorer instead of trading it in and buy a couple wish's if i can beat you to the punch. Your my hero, but you already knew that.... AYYYYYYY........ |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | How are ya Johnny? You are exactly what I was saying earlier in the post. A guy who has the water close where owning those expensive lures is worth while. For the Guy stuck in Lower Michigan that gets one trip per year to Georgian Bay having 10 Wishmasters hanging on his wall for 11 months and three weeks per year the Plow starts looking real good at 45 bucks. My fear is if Drifter or Grandma lures starts making plastics in the 15 to 25 inch range. They have already stepped up into the 13/14 inch stuff. Kingfisher |
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| King,
I've been great! It's a nice break not having to fish all the time
Expect bigger offerings from most companies as they continue to gain popularity. I don't see why a 49 lb MI state record wouldn't eat a Wishmaster? |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Problem was in that case the water was only 8 feet deep. Not much room in Thornapple for big baits. Its really just a widening of the river. We have some lakes to my north that see my big baits and also several have eaten my 12 inchers in the Detroit river. We have 50 lb fish here. I just caught my last fish for 2006 in 17 feet of water with a 13 inch Grandma. Had to use that lure because I had to troll rreal slow 2.1 mph. Fish was 47.5 with a 22.5 inch girth . About 30 lbs. It could have eaten a Wish no problem. I have to drive three hours to get to any Big water and its all very low density deep water without structure. You Know the drill , 5 to 6 days to contact one fish. Michelle and I caught 226 fish last year. All on small baits three over 50 inches. 51,52,52 all on St Clair. 7 inch Slasher was my best producer there. We might come up and visit you this year. We have several trips up your way planned. Kingfisher |
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| I know of a 34" fish that ate a 21" Wishmaster... so your 30 lb'ers and 50 lb'ers shouldn't have too much trouble. hahaha |
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Posts: 106
Location: Michigan | Its cool to see two of the lure makers Kingfisher and Muskysnax talking about lures. I use bouth of their lures and have great luck with them on muskies. A Kingfisher 14 inch Slasher with a Muskysnax Brown Sucker or Herring paint job would be a killer lure!!!!! Hint Hint
LeMay OUT |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Sounds good to me!
Edited by Musky Snax 1/10/2007 12:47 PM
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | What do you say, Kingfisher, should we hook him up? |
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Posts: 1188
Location: Iowa | Have you guys ever thought of collaborating a couple baits...like having Mike paint some of you spoons...that would be sweet too...just a thought....
Big Perc |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | I think he does a great job on his spoons already but thanks for thinking of me! |
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Posts: 106
Location: Michigan | Snax I just mailed out your money order for the mooneye's. I showed kingfisher the two sucker lures you made me this fall. It's in a box with two of Kingfisher 8 inch Slasher blanks Mike made for me. I'm going to see you work your magic on his magic. Should be a winning combo in my tackel box for this coming season.
LeMay OUT |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Sweet, I look forward to painting them for you.
He makes really nice baits. |
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Posts: 106
Location: Michigan | YES he does and so do you. I have some of his little claws and rip-en-shads that are real cool too. I bet Kingfisher could make some nice 10 and 14 inch slashers too. Snax you going to make any jointed lures? I live close to kingfisher and like Mike sead the lakes we fish at mostly shallow. I'm mostly a trolling guy. So I try to use lures that run in the to 10 ft of water. Its just hard to find light enuff big lures to do that. Right now I'm trying to find some 10 inch Nils Master Invinicible floating to get custom painted.
LeMay OUT |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | I could make one up when I get a chance. The one thing I get requests for the most is to make those jointed lipless swimbaits like they use for huge Bass in California.
It's just so much work that I'd have to jack the price way up. The results would be pretty neat though so I might do up a few just for a change of pace. |
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Posts: 786
Location: Minnesota | Here is one of the new Grunts I just put on eBay. Fun to paint but, need to get some more detail in these. I know the fish could care less but the buying public seems to love good paint jobs!
James
Edited by Grunt Lures 1/10/2007 6:48 PM
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Trout.jpg (11KB - 261 downloads)
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | I seen that on ebay last night and put a bid in on it! |
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Posts: 786
Location: Minnesota | Thanks pamuskyhunter! I sell a few on eBay now and then. eBay does not do most lures justise for prices IMO. Good for the buyer though! About half of my muskie and pike baits are from eBay. I bid on a lot of crap and win about 10%. All at great prices! Love to buy beat up 9"-10" suicks for $4 delivered and redo them. Harder to come buy now. Thanks again for supporting my habits that I call kids and fishing..
James |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Interesting about a collaberation lure. We should all put something on a lure and donate it to this website. Maybe several different lures so we could get everyone involved. The website could auction them off as a fund raiser. any Ideas? Lemay , Im working on a cross between a Loke and a Nils. Its tough going right now trying to keep up with orders and still find time to experiment with new designs. I would like to see some of my best lures with some of these other guys paint and or Foil on them, Snax, Fingers what you guys think about some collabertions? Kingfisher
Edited by Kingfisher 1/10/2007 10:02 PM
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | I would be honoured to collaborate on something especially if it would be donated to this site.
Another cause near and dear to me would be to auction off a special lure and give the proceeds to a Diabetes foundation. My familly sadly lost my younger brother Steven at the age of 33 to the disease two years ago and he is my inspiration to do what I do for a living.
Life is too unpredictable and short to waste it doing something that doesn't fuffill you. I'm going to post a picture of a portrait that I airbrushed of my brother. It is the very first attempt at airbrushing anything other than a lure or fish related object. I think he's up there smiling at me now cause I'm thinking of him.
Here's the portrait of the little rascal...
(Steve framed portrait (Medium).jpg)
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Steve framed portrait (Medium).jpg (40KB - 253 downloads)
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Posts: 351
| I'd be glad to help out, especially to help the site and any charitable causes. As a matter of fact, on one of these other threads I read something about donating lures to be auctioned for charity and that appealed to me very much.
PS... if this happens, please email me at [email protected]. I keep a pretty fast pace, I'm in and out of these sites quickly, and I'm lousy at checking my PM's, but I'm definitely up for this.
Edited by fatfingers 1/10/2007 11:05 PM
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | James,
You are right,you take a pretty good loss sometimes on the prices of them grunts
I know the feeling,i bid on so much stuff on there, its so addicting.
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | James,
You are right,you take a pretty good loss sometimes on the prices of them grunts
I know the feeling,i bid on so much stuff on there, its so addicting.
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | James,
You are right,you take a pretty good loss sometimes on the prices of them grunts
I know the feeling,i bid on so much stuff on there, its so addicting.
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | James,
You are right,you take a pretty good loss sometimes on the prices of them grunts
I know the feeling,i bid on so much stuff on there, its so addicting.
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Posts: 106
Location: Michigan | Snax that a very nice painting of your brother.
LeMay OUT |
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Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | Snax,
You are a good guy, heres to you!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Nice of you to say, but my brother was the true good guy...
From the time he was diagnosed with Diabetes until he passed away he had to endure self injections of insulin, the slow loss of his vision due to clotting in his eyes and yet he still was the funniest person I ever knew! He was having laser treatment to his eyes and was on long term disability but he'd still wake up in the morning with the giggles as I often do.
Now Steve was a GREAT guy! |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Wow, that is some real good airbrushing work and you only been at it for a short time. You have the touch thats for sure. I lost my brother when he was 6 many years ago. First off on a lure with a buch of guys working on it we have to decide who does what and how each guy can sign it. I will be going over all the pictures on this site and try to add up all guys who are building baits and see how many we have. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | My heart goes out to your familly Kingfisher. It will be neat to see how this idea works out.
There are so many amazing bait makers and painters that post here! |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Ok, I have an idea that might work...
Since there are so many guys that make great baits we can't realistically have everyone actually do some artistic painting to a bait.
My idea is that Kingfisher could make a huge crankbait then send it to me. I could carve the head and mouth details and begin by priming the bait and painting just the head then clear coating it once. It can then be shipped off to another person who can continue by painting something unique for the body, maybe one of the guys could do a foil finish for example.
Then the bait can get signed by as many bait makers as are willing.
What would really be cool is if every bait maker could paint just a little something on the bait and sign it then add one coat of epoxy before sending it to the next guy. The thing would be bullet proof by the time we're done! lol |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I started a new thread for this topic. Lets move it over there. there are at least 34 lure makers at this site. Kingfisher |
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| dadson lures 20 inch i must have one ok how do i get it, now robert |
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| i know mike king hes made me 25 lures, i am picking up a 21 in 5 days , also bought from grunt, a sucker from mike at muskie snax, frankys, rennys, and 5 from novak |
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| thats me about 25 lures from mike king talonz he paints like angelo n his name is micheal to |
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Posts: 294
Location: Sakatchewan,Canada | Kingfisher - 8/11/2006 12:17 AM
That was an 8 ounce 12inch spoon. Here is a 12 inch lake trout pattern on a spoon/
My spoons!!!Thanks for the excellent job you did on those spoons Mike! |
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Posts: 9
| Heres a couple from this winter....
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lures 006 (Medium).jpg (58KB - 317 downloads)
lures 010 (Medium).jpg (60KB - 387 downloads)
lures 011 (Medium).jpg (60KB - 300 downloads)
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| Muskybar,
Dadsons 20" is a custom from Joe at true glide |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | Kingfisher,
How about, you pick the color (like walleye,perch,ect) and everyone makes a bait in that color? Then it could be auctioned off as a set. Kind of the way everyone painted something pink for the tower of pink.
Lot easier to facilitate and it would allow everyone to express their own creativity. It would be pretty cool to see every different style.
Joe
Trueglide.com |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Tigger and I are already working on a Bluegill. One half will be airbrushed by me and the other half will be done with Tiggers beautiful finishes.Let's get paired up and get cracking on this guys. It's time to give back. |
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Posts: 71
| I wish I had some kind of marketable skill.
Pete |
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