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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | Got into a talk today about survival of muskies (especially those over 20lbs) and there chances of making it when released in high temperatures like we have the last few days. I was told years back musky inc. did a study on this. Had many guides tagging fish during one year to moniter. Was told that those caught and released in july and august had a very poor survival rate. Does anyone know more about this study? Anyone take part in it?
I certainl believe that on days when temps n the 90's that the chances for a musky to make it are fae slimmer.
Pfeiff | |
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Location: The Yahara Chain |
Don I have never heard of any study being done on this by MI.
Edited by Bytor 7/15/2006 10:12 PM
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | A nice 50-incher was caught on Pewaukee Lake this past Thursday morning. The fish picture was on Lake-Link and the news spread fast. Today I got a call and that same fish was floating dead this morning.
I am off the water for a week or two until things cool down. I hope the heat will break soon.
Water releases are the way to go. Short fights and quick releases are a must.
This 50 was caught in 40ft of water on a Depth Raider and pictures had to be taken Im sure. The fish swam off but died . Delayed mortality is a heat related issue.
80 degree mark is my stop point. Trolling deep water for fish down 20ft or more is asking for trouble. I just won't do it. The temps will cool and the muskie will still be there to catch in a few weeks. Respect the resource and fish shallow fish if you have to and water release them all. | |
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Posts: 108
Location: IN | Don's asking about information on the study, if such a study was conducted. The "here we go again" stuff starts by people offering commentary other than what was asked for. It seems simple to me, if you have information about such a study then provide it, if not then simply let the thread slip on down the page. | |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | hot water..my take...if ya gotta be out there...bring the fish in quick as possible if at all possible dont net it and try to unhook it boatside in the water. do a in water release photo and touch and handle as little as possible....if you have to net it keep it down in the water work fast cut hooks and release it right out of the net never picking it up. | |
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Posts: 11
| I persoanlly think that the water temps are getting way to hot for having good releases on muskies. I just caught a 43 inch fish and she had a tough time swimming away. I cut the hooks and didn't even lift her out of the water for a picture. I just slid her out of the net and put her in the water. There is still plenty of time to fish muskies and I am not going to sit out on the lake in 100 degree weather. | |
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Posts: 4266
| The bigger the fish, the tougher the strain.
I'm covering The FLW walleye tourney in Green Bay, and guys are fishing 75+ degree water, and the big ones aren't faring as well as the small ones.
The people running the tourney are hustling their butts off to have cool water waiting for them at weigh in, but the strain is just too great.
Give up summer fishing and fish the fall instead....try to run that one past the family when it comes to vacation time.
Beav | |
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Posts: 1168
| Fish at night, boatside releases, just bring it along side the boat and be ready with your release tools, pop the hooks or cut them and away she goes. Days like today are just too hot to fish in for your own comfort anyway.
Interesting stuff Beav...I'd be interested to know what kinds of delayed mortality occurs on any tourney this weekend...walleye and bass. I'm sure a culling study this weekend would show very different things than one that occurred last fall when water temps were in the mid 50's. | |
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Posts: 518
Location: Cave Run Lake KY. | Hi Don. The instruction manuel for my QUEG Fish Finder (temp gauge) list, Fishing Temperature chart has all the fresh water game fish temps listed Upper avoidence, optimum and lower avoidence . muskellunge 55* F. low 63*F. Optimum and Upper avoidence 72* fahrenheit. these are the temps that they live in the best. After Guiding and fishing Cave Run for 6 years I have come to believe that the Cave Run fish of the Lickin River (Ohio River basin fish) have adapted to the warmer waters of the south. Here on Cave Run I don't recomend fishing for muskie in water temps over 80*Deg. All other northern muskie strains 77* deg. I have found Wisc. Muskie to stress out around 75 to 78 deg. water. The Queg fish finder info comes from the (FISHING WORLD MAGAZINE), and lists most freshwater and salt water fish. These are just my thoughts from fishing muskies for the last 50 + years. (GOFGR (8) ) Marv. | |
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| Not to be a #$%^&, but what you guys normaly put together here is usualy great reading. Now when this one very important subject comes up there seems to be a couple of you that are short a few pennies.
Common cents would and should tell you when its too hot, boatside release with barbless baits or just go after the bluegills with the ultra lite gear, what a fix !!
Let's protect what we love the most................ | |
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| common sense says it's OK to use your real "Oldtime" name, fish4musky1/Steve... | |
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| Basically anything posted in the past, or that will be posted in the future on the board HAS or WILL be beaten to death...topics are rarely "new", just worded differently for the most part...for those who wish, the opportunity to grab a stick and procede to whack remains a constant factor due to the nature of internet boards, and some enjoy a familiar swing at a familiar topic...also a resurgence of such allows for the short of memory, the curious, the can't get enough of, etc. to refresh their minds and be a part of something...consider this...just how many pics of a 'ski does one view in a years' time on the boards, yet peeps find themselves continually clicking on evey feesh that's posted, regardless of size; I have yet to hear anyone say" Hey, stop posting pics of fish, we've seen enough already!" One must consider that the phrase "Beating a dead horse" is not the same as beating a topic, as a dead horse will eventually disappear due to natural processes, whereas a topic will live on in the hearts and minds of those who read it, regardless of their personal interpretation...God Save The Queen, pass the apple sauce, and never ever forget...in outer space, NOBODY eats ice cream... | |
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Posts: 20269
Location: oswego, il | I don't believe Don was looking for a debate on this subject good or bad. He was looking for a study that was done by muskies inc some time ago, perhaps he would like to share this information on the radio show, perhaps somebody new to musky fishing might be listening. | |
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | I could use a little hot weather release. Half my house is gutted, and my AC is functioning at about 50%. I started the day at the City public pool for a private party for my daughter's Great Blue Heron girl scout troop. 20 screaming little girls and their families in 90 degree heat and humidity. All to a blasting sound track with a party mix ranging from reggae to what I believe was Kenny Chesney. Did I mention it was blasting? As I do not immerse my body in water without the privacy offered by a shower curtain, I was soon perspiring freely. My thanks to the young City employee kind enough to shade me by raising an enormous umbrella. The party lasted just over three hours. I was then required to perform several home based tasks that entailed going from the house to the high temperature garage. To finish this fine day, I was privileged enough to browse for kitchen cabinet hardware, and then visit the local Goodwill in search of clothing to create a pirate costume for a play my daughter is in. As I write this, I am watching, "Aquamarine", a charming tale of pre-teen girls, a mermaid, and the good hearted life guard they all adore. The glass next to me contains water, and the remains of the final six ice cubes in the house. We did not buy a bag of ice to replenish my refrigerator which is located in my sweltering enclosed porch.
Continuing hotness could lead to madness in my case. I'm begging for a hot weather release.
Kevin
That looks like an Eagle in the distance. | |
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Posts: 1168
| I apologize to anyone who has seen this written by me before but I thought it fits here again and is something that needs to be shared for the protection of these fish. Some of this undoubtedly will be stuff many on here already know but it never hurts to talk about this over and over again in hopes that perhaps one more person becomes aware of this as an issue.
Conversation with a fisheries biologist about hot water temps. Not a specific study but we discussed oxygen levels in hot water vs. colder water.
Of course there is a lower level of dissolved oxygen as water temps get higher. The fish has a higher metabolism so they will need to feed more often but stress easy. The reason he cited as the problem for these fish was the lactic acid build up in the muscle tissue of the fish. They need oxygen to get rid of the lactic acid, simply by breathing with their gills it is tough for a fish to take in enough to quickly disapate the lactic acid.
In the spring though, when temps quickly climb to about 70-72 or so and then there is a real sharp cold front, cold rain, or some other factor that drops water temps by about 6-8 degrees it often is worse on them than if the temps are at 80. Reason is a quick drop in temps create almost a quick turnover effect leaving the top layer of water void of any oxygen. We ran into this while judging a tourney last year. Every fish that was caught really struggled to get going in 64-65 degree temps. You'd think they wouldn't have a problem but they did. All fish were also caught below the 8ft mark.
A few things that he did to revive these fish in those conditions that simply blew my mind away were to take one and place it in a livewell on my boat. This livewell was filled with cold water from an artesian well. We let the aerators run, closed the lid, and sat still. Opened it back up about 10 minutes later and that fish was absolutely hot. The influx of oxygen got rid of the lactic acid and by being secure in an enclosed area (livewell) the fish was able to relax and not be so tense.
Second fish was kind of "dopey" and struggling much like the first one did. This one was released at boatside with a different tactic. The biologist had a tank of compressed oxygen along with him, opened up the valve and ran the hose along the sides of the fish. Reason for this was that they do absorb a small amount of oxygen through the skin and this goes directly into the muscle tissue. This direct oxygen went to work and lowered the lactic acid in the fish. After about a minute or so of this that fish was hot and ready to go.
Back to that first fish...one theory this biologist had was that even if people are hovering over the top of the fish it will tense up because it feels threatened and this slows down the process of getting rid of the lactic acid build up. He recommended a few things. 1) Use a livewell if possible and where legal so you have as much oxygen as you can around that fish. 2) close the livewell lid to make that fish feel secure. 3a) If a boatside release is necessary, sit low in the boat and don't stand over the fish. 3b) Hold the fish so that it is close to the boat or so that it's head is underneath it because this will give it that sense of security because it has artificial protection overhead from the boat. 4) Carry a battery operated aerator or a 12v aerator with a hose long enough to stick in the water along side the fish so that it can absorb as much oxygen as possible. 5) Never ever move a fish back and forth because you'll force water backwards through the gills. 6) Gently move the fish from side to side ever so slightly. This increases circulation and is a more natural motion for the fish. 7) If you are worried about high water temps, simply stop fishing for them. If you are apprehensive about high water temps you lose your comfort level when releasing the fish.
Again, no scientific studies to back any of this up but based on how those tourney fish were before and then after we did what we did it made alot of sense to me. Quite honestly, I highly doubt that those fish would have survived if a typical release plan was put in place. They needed a little more attention and when they swam off they were in good shape. As a follow up, the two that were in the worst shape that day had pit tags implanted in them and both were caught over 4 months later.
Hopefully some of this helps or at least makes a new person more aware of hot weather issues.
-Bob | |
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Edited by Sponge 8/23/2006 9:31 AM
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Location: Athens, Ohio | It was so hot here yesterday - and the rivers and streams are dark, high, and muddy - that I followed Extreme's lead and gave up the muskie hunt and went bass fishing, instead (got two - amazing).
Muskie magazine had an article a couple years ago about heat stress and muskies and I'm not sure if that's the study Don's looking for or not. Hopefully, MI will add to their on-line catalog and we can search out this stuff.
I apologise if this was not solidly on-point. Dang, it's gonna be hot here again today. Mauser and I found a river that was 65* water temps last week (tailwaters), might be hitting that next weekend after the levels go down and it clears up a bit, then stick to the suggestions on this thread for water releases.
I've fished with Mike and his concern for fish survuval in these conditions is genuine, and Extreme! m | |
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I had a similar conversation years ago with two fisheries folks from Lake Mills, WI when the hatchery was going there. They recommended livewelling the fish too, with LOTS of water pumping through a system tyhat forced air as much as possible. At that time, there was still debate over the release salts and diminishing lactic acid, they recommended using them in moderation.
That fall we installed the first 60" 'muskie' livewell ever placed in a boat in a brand new model we called the 'Esox', and fed the well with a high output pump and a nozzle that had a ton of holes drilled in it sort of like an airstone idea in an aquarium. I have used that system whenever a fish seemed stressed in the models I have owned that had it installed ever since, and it worked pretty well according to the recapture rate from the tagging I did on Pelican in the 80's. There are now systems that inject oxygen into livewell water that are supposed to work pretty well, but the venturi nozzle in the well in the 1890 bubbles her up pretty good. I used the release chemicals too, and I guess at the very least there was no harm from them that I could detect, but the argument still goes on there.
If I have a fish that is obviously stressed, I still livewell it with the lid closed, feed it water until the fish's color and eye clarity come back, and release it in the area it was caught; not out over 30' if she came from 6'. That takes some time out of the fishing day, but to me is worth the trouble.
Some will die anyway in warm, cold, and in between conditions, it's the way it is. REALLY warm conditions are more problematic, so I just don't fish the muskies here in HOT water. All we can do is the best we can. | |
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Posts: 1137
Location: Holly, MI | Sponge - 7/15/2006 8:54 PM
Basically anything posted in the past, or that will be posted in the future on the board HAS or WILL be beaten to death...topics are rarely "new", just worded differently for the most part...for those who wish, the opportunity to grab a stick and procede to whack remains a constant factor due to the nature of internet boards, and some enjoy a familiar swing at a familiar topic...also a resurgence of such allows for the short of memory, the curious, the can't get enough of, etc. to refresh their minds and be a part of something...consider this...just how many pics of a 'ski does one view in a years' time on the boards, yet peeps find themselves continually clicking on evey feesh that's posted, regardless of size; I have yet to hear anyone say" Hey, stop posting pics of fish, we've seen enough already!" One must consider that the phrase "Beating a dead horse" is not the same as beating a topic, as a dead horse will eventually disappear due to natural processes, whereas a topic will live on in the hearts and minds of those who read it, regardless of their personal interpretation...God Save The Queen, pass the apple sauce, and never ever forget...in outer space, NOBODY eats ice cream...
Amen Sponge!!
And Amen also to EsoxJohnny! Ditto.
Sponge, i took a long time off away from MF and came back to the same exact stuff. I'll stick up for all however, uncluding myself, and say that sometimes we just can't talk enough musky. It is a disease and this is a support group. | |
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| Read Minnesoata DNR'S Rod Ramsells article about heat and fighting stress in essox angler a couple of years ago
he equates it too a human marathon
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you run 26 miles in 90 degree heat -"the equiv of the muskie fight",,,then when you cross the finnish line exhausted someone grabs your head and plunges it under water so you get NO air for two minutes- the equiv of taking A Muskie out and unhooking him and taking pictures,
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| Worrall,
EXACTLY!!! It is well worth the time! I have found, that the 60" livewell put in the Tuffy 1890 is awesome. My question is this? Is it better or worse for the fish to use "ice" to cool her down, as long as she is being released in "more than 6' of water?" I have found the surface temps to be at 85+ degrees, but just 4 feet down, I have found them to less than 65.....What if you were to "ice" them up, along with oxygen, would it help them to have a higher survival rate? OR, would it shock their system, and cost them their life??
I have never done it, but was trying to figure out a system that would get us as close to 100% survival rate as possible!!
Donnie  | |
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Hot weather releases