|
|
Posts: 3
| I'm going to take a stab at making some glider style jerkbaits, was wondering what type of wood I should look to use. I have a pretty good wood supplier, so I can pretty much get anything within reason. Or is the type of wood secondary to the weighting of the lure?
Thanks in advance for any help. Lots of good info (and great pics!) on this forum.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Weighting most important. Wood depends on what style and what you want it to do. Lighter wood with weight in the right place will get you belly roll with drop belly style. Wood on tubullar can be heavier. Takes a lot of playing to get what you want. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 479
Location: Eden Prairie & Pine Island | My best gliders tend to be Maple, but if you're going for a dive/rise bait you will want something more bouyant...heck, Suicks are made of Pine and they are sweet if weighted correctly. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4266
| Lots of options.
I've made slow sink gliders out of softer wood and used 1 1/2 ounces of lead to get them to sink. Take the hooks off and they float.......that's what I like. Something that is just on the verge of sinking. Buyers on the other hand tend to like heavier lures because they want to work lures fast or don't have the patience to let them hover their way downward even though that is when I get the majority of my strikes.
Maple is a good choice, It's hard. Easy to work with and doesn't take a tremendous amount of weight to make it sink. Where you put the lead is what counts. You can also pour lead in the holes to get the sink rate correct, but I still drill and put weights in by hand so that the lead isn't right on the bottom of the lure. I think that positioning makes it hard to get good flash and roll without a hard snap. I put my lead just below the centerline of the lure and then fill the rest. This gives the lure the appearance of trying to almost roll over, but the weight stops it and then it settles back down on the pause, wiggling while in one place the whole time. I don't think too many guys drill and insert weights and fill anymore. I could make more lures by drilling and pouring lead in the hole right to the top,(whigh would actually be the bottom of the lure), but I'd kill the action.
Rounder lures give you a good glide, but no action on the sink. Wider or flat bottom lures, when balanced properly, will shimmy as they fall....another trait that I love in a lure.
HR's are made of Cedar, but I found it harder to work with. But I'm no wood shop teacher. There is a reason that the old HRs had 10-13 small weights in them. That's what made them great. Now he uses one weight in the front and one in the tail.
Yeah, Suicks are made of pine, as are many topwater lures, but you can weight them and make them sink. I have found out that the softer the wood, the more difficult drilling is, because it flakes off in chunks so many times.
Stick with a harder wood and experiment with weight position. I have screw eyes with 6 different egg sinkers on each one, and I use those to get a starting point to work from.
Just remember, every piece of wood is different. What works for one won't always work for all. You can actually fine tune a glider just by changing hook size or hook position.
I'm sure that any of the glider makers who visit this forum could get together and write a book. Be ready to experiment, and don't settle for something that you wouldn't use yourself.
Need more?
e-mail [email protected]'d be glad to help.
Beav |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3
| Thanks all for the great advice. I'll probably get in touch with ya Beav once I get under way and start experimenting.
I've been making surface baits (globes mainly) the past four years, but the glider is one I always wanted to try. I'll probably try to make an "rounder" style bait first.
Thanks again.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Consider yourself fortunate to get that info from Beav. I would have killed to get such info 4 years ago...............I learned what little I know from running a thousand experiments.
jed v. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4266
| Me too 
Beav |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | I find it a bit odd that HR uses cedar don't you Beav? He's using one of the softest woods there is and it's so doggone grainy too! I have used it in the past but hiding the grain in the wood can be a major pain! It does have great action tho I will say that.
jed v. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | Jed,
I'm not a baitmaker but know some masters. Cedar is preferred for its action as you have said. It also does not rot, it will dry out and crack, but will NOT suck up any water. Thus, you get a truer action. It also was preferred before the envirotex era in that since it would not suck water, you had less paint cracking and paint blowups. The hard finishes today have corrected most of those problems with other woods. As you know, i really love your baits, but i do prefer a red western cedar lure, if i had to pick a wood.
Just an opinion from a layman, Pikiespawn  |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Hi Pikie,
I'm glad you posted your thoughts on the WRC...I love these types of discussions. Here is what I have learned about this wood after several years of experimenting with it.
It doesn't surprise me that the WRC won't rot..I have read it makes a wonderful wood for canoe paddles. From my experience tho, it has a horrible tendency to absorb water and will split if not treated before getting wet. Just recently in fact I was testing a new lure concept and because I was in a hurry I didn't seal the bait like I normally do before taking it to the river for a test. The next day the whole front of the bait had swollen and cracked...I have never seen hard maple do this. Of all the woods I have tested tho, and there are many, WRC does provide the most "lively action" of all..there's a reason for this.
WRC has a density similar to balsa so when it's built as a glider what you end up with is a whole bunch of weight in one portion of the lure where the lead is and the rest remains light and buoyant. In the water the very light section of wood fighting with a very heavy section of lead is what leads to the wonderful action that you see in HR Baits...wobbling, shaking, etc. Hard maple on the other hand is much more dense and heavy overall which means it requires far less lead to get it to sink. So instead of having a very heavy and very light portion of the lure like one does with WRC you have a much more balanced range of weight throughout the lure body and thus more stability. I personally think a lure that is stable looks much more realistic in the water and purposely design for this in my baits. A stable lure can be worked faster and provides the angler with more predictability....again in my opinion.
Major drawbacks of WRC as I have said tho are that it's very grainy, not strong, can be difficult to drill straight, tends to split easily on the router, dust is a known carcinogen, and doesn't provide the greatest screw eye strength. Put a screw eye in WRC and grab it with a claw hammer, it will come right out. Do the same with hard maple, and the screw eye with either bend or break but will not pull out. But, will I continue to use WRC for some baits, you bet!
If you ever want me to build you a bait from WRC Pikie I would be happy to do that.
jed v.
|
|
| |
|
| Great info being shared here.
I use WRC for my baits and if sealed properly, it has no issues with splitting. To solve the problem of the eye screw situation, I use a waterproof glue which expands as it cures on my baits. It makes the area around the eye screw very strong. I've lifted the work bench when the bait was clamped in a vice by lifting on the eye screw with pliers.
You have to take the right steps to ensure the wood is sealed thoroughly for sure but I've had no problems personally while testing unsealed prototypes.
Thanks again to Jed for kindly sharing his knowledge with me when I needed help. I've also tried to do the same when others have asked me. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | The above post was me! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Jed - if you want to hide the grain dip the bait in a good sealer that soaks in first. It makes it harder and allows you to sand it without raising the grain. I do not sand it much after that because I like to see the grain (it looks like a wood bait even with all the epoxy on over the top and not plastic). I have sanded the grain away after dipping though on some lures. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4266
| I've redone enough HR's to know that water does damage to the lures when it gets under the clear coat, and the guy continues to fish it.
The graininess, running lengthwise, is a pain when you try to fix a bad, soft or rotted area. I have to do a lot of minor filling on every HR that I've ever redone.
It makes great arrows though.
Beav |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | I will give that a try Roger...............today!
jed v. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | I am not a baitmaker, but a friend of mine is. He makes a killer pikie (thus my handle) and he makes a jerkbait that is similiar to the sledge (his was made many years before) - all out of a cedar. His red is not as grainy as HR's. Hey, I'm not an expert on wood.
He seals his wood and sands it, then seals it again. He does not use any envirotex sealer or heavy sealer on his lures. Muskies put huge teeth marks and holes in his baits. His lures do not suck water. This puzzles me, pine when exposed will suck water and swell. My old eddie baits were maple and they would suck water and crack like crazy.......
If you look at the Wiley baits, I believe Dale uses white or red cedar. His lures do not suck water and his screw eyes and tie eyes are usually pretty stable. I know guys that only use his baits. Now granted, if you crash into a big rock or snag up and put unbelievable pressure on a bait, #*#* will give. Thats why my trolling lures are 95% wired through.
Good thing i'm not a baitmaker, cause my stuff would be ugly. I also would probably go through a 100 different scenarios before something would work.
Hughes Rivers, Bikini's, Beav's, and may i add (Trueglides) are all unique in their actions, and all trigger fish. This is an interesting discussion indeed. Pikiespawn |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Pikie,
I wonder if you are thinking about Eastern Red Cedar which is what alot of builders use. Maybe this is what Snax is using too. ERC is the stuff that hope chests are made out of and has a distinct reddish color to it. It's quite hard and aromatic, and is much different than the Western Red Cedar that I was talking about. If I lived on the East Coast I think ERC would be a good option but here in Oregon it's too expensive. Hughes uses WRC. Here is a pic of the lure I was describing earlier that split on me.......pics not real clear but you get the idea. ERC and WRC are two totally different woods.
jed v.
Edited by RiverMan 6/17/2006 2:58 PM
Attachments
----------------
 split.jpg (34KB - 95 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 432
Location: mpls | Western Red for me.
Jed. That wood on the cracked lure could be from improperly cured wood.
The thing with Cedar,you are always working with a known property. It is always very bouyant. Other hard woods(like Maple or Poplar) have many more inconsistencies. Not just from one piece to another, sometimes even within the same piece. The tighter/finer grain also makes it absorb sealers less.
All wood is good, it's just a matter of preference(for the maker) and experience working with what you know.
Viva La differance!
Joe
Trueglide.com
" Giving fishermen wood since 2003" |
|
| |
|
Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | I agree with Joe, (not that i like to admitt it)!! When i saw that picture of that cracked HR i was thinking improperly cured wood. This could have been an accident on Wilson's part or maybe he got a deal on some wood that wasn't up to par. My cracked eddie baits and others are probably due to the same thing. Improperly cured wood. I can tell you this, and i know alot of you guys don't troll and won't, but cedar action is the best trolling, period. You may want wired through, especially if you are anal like me. PS
PS Trueglides Rock |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Hey glad to see you chime in Joe!
I think you might have missed where I said the above cracked lure didn't have a sealer on it. Generally I put sealer on all lures before letting them touch the water and this one I didn't do that. I would agree that WRC is very buoyant but I wouldn't consider it anymore consisent than hard maple. I can cut out 50 hard maple gliders with a bandsaw...and my cuts are far from perfect. And once I find the right amount of weight for the particular lure I will weight all 50 of them identically. When I go to check each of them for drop, there will maybe be 5 out of the 50 that need a very minor amount of tuning...and I mean minor. I would agree, however, with your comment regarding the WRC absorbing more wood sealer tho and here again this is because it's lighter, wider grained, and more able to absorb moisture.
I do like WRC and will continue to use it for some lures. WRC is quitely lively, very nice to work with because it's soft, easy to sand and shape. But, like all woods, WRC most certainly has its list of drawbacks.
Jed V.
Edited by RiverMan 6/17/2006 10:33 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | From the fishermans aspect, this is very cool to hear your opinions on this matter. I have the utmost respect for your craftsmanship. Jed, Beav, Joe and my friend Jerry are my favorite makers. I have a ton of respect for a guy that can make a consistent muskie attractant.
Pikiespawn |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Thanks Pikie,
Really Joe makes a good point, all wood is good. I have made gliders from redwood, WRC, pine, poplar, hard maple, soft maple, willow, mahogany, oak, and probably others that I have now forgotten. Every single one of them would glide and swim...mostly it's just a matter of what you get used to and have confidence in.
These chats are good for builders too. If it wasn't for the internet I wouldn't be able to ever discuss such topics with fellow builders. To my knowledge, I am the ONLY musky lure builder in the State of Oregon, maybe in the Northwest!! When I tell people I build "musky lures" they say "what's that"? lol.
jed v. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 280
Location: Pewaukee WI | I've had identical maple bodies that are over a 1/2 oz. different. If you are making baits that are near neutral boyancy it makes things interesting. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | That's the very reason why I take the time to weight and balance every bait individually. If you start cutting corners, the product and the customer suffers.
|
|
| |
