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| We were sitting in the chatroom and the question of Mantas came up and to my surprise two fisherman endorsed them as "quality baits", when I heard this I nearly spit Pepsi all over my screen and quickly researched how many fish the two of them had caught on that particular bait(just to be sure since I was already pretty sure but wanted to have my facts straight). Fisherman #1 said none, and fisherman # 2 said none, and then I did spit pepsi all over the screen, I was laughing so hard! (And I know these two gave them a fair trial)
Hmmmmmmm, quality baits huh? What were you guys like BEFORE the thought police worked you over with cattle prods??? [:bigsmile:]
if baits don't catch fish in my boat pretty soon they go on the baits that suck list,
still no fish?
then they go on the baits i will trade list and hopefully go on the baits I used to own list.
and you guys know who you are, send me some windex!! |
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| FSF, did they define quality as "fish catching" or quality as components and construction. If it's the ability to catch fish, I'd say they're a great bait, for everything except muskies (many big bass and northerns). As far as quality, I think the components are as good as anyoness product (x4 hooks and triple rings) and the body is unbreakable. I hope that's what those two guys are talking about. If not, it kinda gives you an idea of who's insight your getting around here sometimes.
heeeeeeere muskie, muskie, muskie.......
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| FSF, I agree with getting rid of baits if there not producing, but what I was wondering is, how long does that take? I don't get to get out a lot, so I can't just put baits away because they didn't work. I feel that certain baits work under certain conditions. I've never given the Manta a shot, but from what most people say, it seems to be about 50% of the people that use them like them.
BrettC |
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| Qualitity bait as you refer to means that they should catch fish.
Qualitity bait that the two guys in the chat room might have meant Qualitity components and well build. Both are important! As far as catching fish goes, not all bait's are the same.
What I mean here is that buy two of the same lures, same model and size and they will both work differently. WOOD OR PLASTIC! No two baits are alike. I have over a dozen black Hawg Wobblers and one comes in the boat with me. They all wiggle and make noise but the one that I like to use has caught a ton of fish over the years and it sing's the right song. It also is a confidence thing. I'm sure if I would use the other Hawg Wobblers they would catch fish two. |
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| I know what you mean by confidence baits Bill, as I'm almost to the point of being anal about it. I have a perch trophy diver that really gets chewed, and have about 6 others that sit in my basement, and just don't have the action. The problem is that I took the good one last year, removed all the screw eyes, epoxied them, and replaced them and hooks, and now the bait doesn't "kick out" on the twitch anymore like it used to. I'm angry and buying more TD's again!!! |
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| FSF,
Sorry for making you spit Pepsi on your computer.
When I said the Manta was a QUALITY lure... I was refering to its construction/components. Its action is incredible too. BUT, I will openly state that they simply do not produce for ME. Does that make them a junky bait? No. Junky for me maybe.... but obviously other guys are catching fish with them... like Jim Saric's 53 incher. That is a quality fish.
Sorry for the confusion.
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| In my not so humble opinion a bait that "sucks" is one that qualifies under a number of, or just glaringly qualifies under one category:
1. Garbage Components (small, dull hooks, cheap split rings, etc)
2. Very short lifespans for the paint job.
3. A short life-span for the bait overall (lips come off of cranks, hooks pull out of the bait, bucktails whose hair disintegrates, or the blade falls off [saw that on a buchertail, not good])
4. A bait that cannot (regardless of the actions of the operator) be made to demonstrate the action so pormised by the manufacturer.
***The key differentiator from this to what many consider a bait that sucks is, if a bait doesn't catch fish for you, it doesnt necessarily suck.....maybe you just don't use them in the right place, or at the right time, or in the right way. I always think back to the fact that I have heard of people who catch 'skies on suicks retrieved without jerking. If that works for some people, what bait could do less?
Slamr |
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| Quality bait = well built
Quality bait = catches fish
Manta = quality bait. #1 producer in our boat this year. |
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| I tend to judge a bait more by its fish catching ability then construction!If I could only catch 1 fish per lure and it was destroyed,I would buy a schmidthouse full of them!All baits are not created equal,and supeiror construction alone does not consitiute a great bait!You can have the best built bait in the world and if it does`nt catch fish what good is it? Jeff |
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| Good topic. I have a couple of newer baits that are obviously well built, and have an action that is really appealing to me, that I haven't caught fish on yet. I consider them good baits nonetheless.
On the other side of the coin, hundreds of guys refer to Reef Hawgs as great baits, but you won't find any of them in my box. Got tired of having to buy 10 of them just to find one that has the right action. They are, in my opinion, junk. To each is own I guess.
Handyman, easy with the outhouse references [:)] . |
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| No pun intended! Jeff |
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| You answered your own QUESTION....the daggone problem was the PEPSI!!! You knew I'd have to respond....the bait was stategically placed + I bit! Keep quaffing those things....see what pepsi did to Michael Jackson!!!? I know...Brittany Spears drinks it + look at her....but she'll soon fall apart also; shes' already starting to moon walk, a sure sign. You need to start a Coke Cola I.V....then all baits will be quality....you will find yourself...Michelle Kwan....hard as a rock + can skate circles around the rest...a REAL woman! Now THAT'S quality!!! Watch her "torpedo" a Coke Cola sometime...makes me want to pass out[::)] All my baits are quality since they rarely see water so I don't know if half of them work or not![;)] [:sun:] |
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| For me a quality bait has good components and does what the manufacturer says it's supposed to do. It may not produce fish in alot of circumstances but it will nontheless. |
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| I have a few baits in my box right now that just plain out don't catch fish for ME. This may be a shocker but I still haven't caught a fish on a topraider yet !! I think that the entire muskie world has caught on fish on this bait but me!! But becouse I read about it on the boards I still keep it hanging in my tackle box!! It's a nice bait well made but I have no confidence in it at all . Lets face it all of us muskie wackos have at least a hundred baits on our boats at any given time but we always seem to pull out the same three or four baits each trip . The baits may change from year to year but the pattern is always the same !We all have our own favorites and there are baits we won't even think of using but lets face it there are still people out there catching muskies on pigs and burmeks,are they quality baits ???
THE FERD
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| It is hard to judge I have thrown the topraider cant miss bait no action,not even follow.Good bait?Will I throw it?probably both yes.6 inch suspending pig junk bait?No caught many fish and seen alot in limited use.I guess quality to me can be determined by hooking% and if bait dont break when fish hooked.0723 Bill Ramsey |
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| Not to beat a dead horse anymore.... I love the Manta, I know I'm one of the few believer's in it. I landed 3 muskie's and about a dozen pike on it, not too bad in my book. I had more follows on them than any other bait last year. I don't know if it's how I work them, time spent with them wet in the water or some act of a higher power, but anyone can have success with just about any bait in my opinion if they spend the time experimenting with different speeds and rythm, while hitting the right spots......it still boils down to location in my philosophy.
Thanks Rex Doherty for letting me in on some secrets. [:devil:] |
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| Surely I erred to have put the actual name of the bait in my first post! It is a given on any board that if you say such and such doesn't catch fish then someone else will post that it is the best darn cornfallutin bait they have ever used and except for that bait they would have been skunked the last two seasons. I was just laughing at the political correctness of calling a skunk bait a "quality" bait. I am sure that some baits work better for some fisherman than other baits, and I am sure that if anyone spends time with a bait they become better tuned in on how to get fish to hit that bait.
I fish by myself most of the time so it is difficult for me to sort baits the way I would like. When I get a new bait I am always excited about it and do dedicate "good time"(ie cloud cover, pre frontal, low light)
to that bait. On the lakes that I know pretty well I am tuned in on "good time" and if the bait doesn't perform in a few tries it goes back in the box. Funny that the top raider should be brought up. Another one of those baits on my "baits that suck" list. Nothing on a more than adequate surface bait lake, and in 1/2 the time the tallywhacker turned 3 and boated 2. My optimistic DA self bought another one though, thinking maybe the first one just wasn't right. Hope it aint another $18 down the drain.
I am with those that feel a quality bait is one that catches fish and as the Handyman points out, a 1 fish bait is fine if everyone will catch a fish. Anybody can build a bait with good components but who gives a rip if they don't get hit? [:blackeye:] |
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| a quality bait? Mine! LOL [:bigsmile:] [;)]
I like a bait that I can feel on my rod (no weak throbbing action) because I fish in drains and lakes with lots of weeds. Second, it has to wear good hooks which stay sharp after you sharpen them yourself or are sharp straight out of the box like the gamakatsu and no 3mm thick nickle or tin hooks like on a rapala supershadrap(I always change the ones present for either eagle claws or gamakatsu), solid splitrings (rather seldom here). Most are so wimpy that they bend open after you change the hooks once, see rapala among others. Third I don't like it when my lures is so beaten after one hour of trolling that I can see the wood come through the paintjob. This ruins a crankbait's action. Though on jerkbaits I do because then you gain neutral buoyancy.
For crankbaits the lip has to stay on the lure! I have seen loads of rapala deep husky jerks that had the lip lying in the box, detached from the bait. They aren't even attached with screw-eyes, just glued on! I don't trust these.
So a quality bait has all of the above. But that doesn't mean I hang those on the end of my line. I have so many lures that are damaged to the point where they start to leak (even my swim whizz got pierced after 33 pike with an average length of 65-70cm) and look rather shabby but they catch. Some of my most solid lures with solid plastic bodies or an epoxy clearcoat get ignored. I think it all comes down to the action and not the finish. If I see some of you guys' reef hawgs or bobbie baits/suicks that have hardly any paint left (I have a few too), who cares if the finish gets ruined fast?? Fish 'em like you never have before! [:sun:] |
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| hey ferd, i used topraiders extensively last season in ohio and canada and not one follow! you are not alone. they sound great but they suck for me... other suckers in my box are comboos and jakes. |
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quality baits vs baits that suck