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Posts: 378
Location: Michigan | I would like to hear about the books or vidoes that you guy recommend on Muskie behavior/movement. Interested in general overall seasonal movement, but also talk about when to fish steep breaks, weedy bays, rocks, tight shore structure, suspended, inside turns, saddles, etc. Also, perhaps in depth discussion about weather influence on fish behavior/movement. I expect there isn't anything out there that is that prescriptive, but looking for in deapth info on this kind of stuff. I would prefer that the topic not focus on shield lakes. However, don't hold back if they do.
Thanks! | |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Before you look for information in a single source document, do a search here for each topic. We have archived 148543 posts in 20450 threads across 12 forums, and I believe every item listed in your post has been covered at least a couple times. This information comes from anglers across North America applied as actual experience, from the guy next door to some exceptional sticks. | |
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Posts: 378
Location: Michigan | I hear you Steve. I know there is a bunch of good info within this and other boards. I look often. I have some of Saric's, Mesikomer's, & In-fisherman vidoes and have enjoyed them all. They are great for seeing some big fish and leanring about some specific conditions when big fish have been caught. I guess I am looking for more "substance". That isn't a slam at all... I just want to get in to more specifics. How about Maina's or Heiting's stuff?
Maybe books would be a better focus for depth/detail. Are there any that are worth the read that aren't story telling? I like stories, but I am more interested in more science and theory.
Any suggestions appreciated. | |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Most of the publications out there are well known. I use web sources to look at the overall biology to help me understand the critter. One good read in hard copy is 'Managing Muskies', an AFS publication from the 1984 symposium. This is older stuff, but most is relevant to today.
Type 'Muskie Biology' into a Google window, and enjoy. Trent University has an amazing amout of information on the web, written by some of the best in the world. There's more than most would care to tackle right there from many sources that direcly address your subject matter.
EG:
http://www.trentu.ca/muskie/biology/biol10.html
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Posts: 2361
| That is probably a good book for managing them but if you were starting on the knowledge path and wanted to pick up what might be the TWO most relevant books on musky fishing the two I would get would
be Buck Perrys book, which covers fish activity behaviour and their relationship to bottom structure(not objects or cover)and feeding migrations involving same. Buck's book and theories have subsequently been proven to have an occasional missing cylinder, BUT his thinking is the basis for most of the so called structure discussions you read today, and his work is the groundwork that gave us the basis for later arguments and discussions. If you understand his theories of fish location and movement you WILL have a good basic knowledge to start from.
The second book I would recommend would be "Secrets of a muskie guide" by Tony Rizzo. Once again this was a book that laid a groundwork for many discussions and future theories. I believe Tony was the first one to split the season into activity periods, and also he includes quite a few methods and tips which are relevant yet today.
My thoughts are that, if you read and comprehend those two books, you will have the basis for lots of musky theory, and easy understanding of more specific and detailed theories and discussion, due to the fact that most of the theory traces back to these two seminal pieces of literature. | |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Another, if that line of reading interests you, is 'Through the Fish's Eye' by Sosin and Clark. Great reading. | |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | Muskies on the Shield by Dick Pearson. Even though it's geared towards Shield lakes, you can apply most of it to anywhere you fish. I believe there's also a DVD now.
Aaron | |
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| If you're into videos, a few of the best educational ones I've watched are In-Fisherman's Musky Hunt I&II (Musky Mechanics and Muskie Doctors are also excellent), and Pearson's Muskies on the Shield. Saric's and Mania's are good views as well, heck watch 'em all!
J.Sloan
The BFO | |
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Posts: 378
Location: Michigan | firstsixfeet,
Buck's book is a very good book. I have read it once and refer to it occassionally through the season. That is the type of book I would love to see pecific to muskie. My take on Buck's book after reading it about 2 years ago is that it applies very much to bass, bluegill, to a lesser extent walleye and pike, and even less to muskie. There were many times that I tried to apply Buck's theory to muskie and I did not have the results I had expected.
As an example, I fished several times in August last year the day after a pretty strong high preasure front came through. The sun was high, skies were clear, and the air temps were cooler. Now, if I intepretted Buck's thinking correctly, the muskie should have been deep and maybe one time during the day, they may feed on the first or second break. But, it would not be likely to see them in the shallows.
I fished the deep breaks almost exclusively those days and only manages one small (30") muskie on one or two of the times out. Later, I compared my experiences with a respected fishing freind who suggested that I should have been fishing the warmest water i could find and said he would have been fishing the weeds in the shallows. He catches a lot more fish than I do, so I respect his opinion.
I am looking for books/videos that can help address some of these kinds of situations. I will pick up the Tony Rizzo book. Thanks for the suggestions. Any others are welcomed. | |
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Location: Northern IL | Chad,,
I am a spoonplugger instructor and certified by Mr. Perry a few years back. I will always feel deeply honored and grateful to Him and Terry O'Malley for what they did for my 4 boys and I.
For the past 10 seasons I have followed Mr. Perry's guidelines down to the letter (fishing for bass). In the study book he says if you go about your fishing as if you are fishing for the LM bass all other fish just get in the way,,, and he was right!!
The past 10 seasons we have been all over the muskie world (mapping/ fishing) more than 100 different body's of water under all kinds of weather and water conditions. We have caught all species, right now we are beating up on a lake in southern WI. (nice to see some of you out there,,, how's it going?). In our last 12 trips out boating 248 pike, along with bass, walleye, and a few muskies as well. Over that 10 years span I have worked a full time in the trades,,, well mostly full time, ha, ha  not as a full time guide. We have boated 1000+ muskies so in my most persuasive way I recommend only one book for you to "study". You can throw the rest in the trash! | |
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Posts: 2361
| Chadster,
#1 I think you still don't know what you don't know yet, and that is often a problem for all of us, myself included.
#2 Your analysis of Buck's book and thinking, and it's lack of application to musky location and feeding, is WAAAAAYYYY off. You manage to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Look at your posts on this thread and tell me where you got your terminology and ideas? Did you just pull that out of your head? Steep breaks, first or second break, structure, feeding periods? You obviously absorbed some of Buck's information which can help give a framework for thinking and strategy, but you have grandly missed the value of this type of thinking. You also demonstrate some lack of knowledge about the fish you are after, it isn't a bass, nor a wallege and a "school" may equal "1". It may not feed for 3-5 days at a time. It eats the things that eat "little things", it does not eat little things itself neccessarily. Even in good numbers the population probably would equate to straggler status when compared to the bass, walleye, populations.
There are paramaters of musky behaviour that tend to roadmap areas to expect concentrations. The same is true of bass and walleye, however the paramaters of behaviour, similar to bass and walleye are dissimilar to musky in many ways.
#3 Go back to Sworrall's thread on "overthinking". Your search "on the deep breaks for days" in reaction to cold front fishing is exactly, exactly, what he and I are talking about in our posts on that thread.
Don't take this as a "diss" either because I can guarantee Sworrall has done exactly what he is talking about anglers doing, ahem... I doubt I have ever done that though....well.....maybe just one time........
at band camp....
Here is I think the address of that thread.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=22...
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | Where else in history is there more info on anything than right now. The sum of all human knowledge is available to everyone. "Welcome to the information age" (stole that from Queensryche). God Bless Muskie First! | |
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Posts: 18
| You know what my problem is, I can read about musky behaviour or watch a video on a new technique, but once I'm back in the boat, I guess instinct takes over, and I fish the way I normally do. I wonder how you transfer the information you read about into action? | |
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Posts: 378
Location: Michigan | Hmmm….
I definitely don’t know what I don’t know… But, I am getting to a point that I see glimmers of what I DO know… I recognize there is MORE to this than just leaving it to chance and time on the water. There are many times that I am catching muskie I am unable to determine exactly why. That brings me to my initial post. I want to learn more, but I don’t think I know what specifically to look for or what specifically to ask.
I consider myself to be a fairly new(4 years) to muskie fishing and have 6-7 years fishing for all species. For the time that I have been fishing, I feel pretty fortunate to have had the experiences that I have and to have had the success that I have. This is not about catching fish as much as it is trying to answer the question WHY am I catching fish. I know once I start to understand the why’s, I will catch more fish consistently.
I have a fair number of different people in my boat each season. I consider most of them to be typical of most fisherman. I put myself in the category of “typical” as well. We are generally the guys that Steve described in the post that was in the link that firstsixfeet posted. We work the deep weed edge and a few of the obvious points, etc. I learn a little something from everyone that comes in my boat, and this is not intended to be a slam, but I don’t fish with many people that REALLY get it. People who understand WHY. People who know how to evaluate conditions and determine the most probable location to find fish.
I want to move past the point of doing today what I did yesterday or three weeks ago or 2 years ago because I caught a fish there once. It takes many years and experiences to be able to start tying things together when you are teaching yourself. I am trying to speed up the learning curve. I don’t have an experience mentor in my fishing world that is willing to show me or share the whys.
The way my head is wired, I have a hard time thinking outside the box. I like directions… When I have a clear set of boundaries, guidelines, instructions, I feel very capable of completing a task. As much as I would like a recipe, I know we are talking about a living creature, but I know there are some fundamentals that you should be able to apply. Through process of elimination, I would think you could eliminate the 80-90% of the water that doesn’t hold the fish(as buck said). I just haven’t learned how to do that as well as I would like to… yet. I will read buck’s book again. Maybe I have learned/experienced enough in the two years since I read it that more lights will go on...
I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions guys. You have me thinking, not over thinking, but thinking in a “critical manner”… Seriously though, good points and very insightful perspectives.
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| 'Through the Fish's Eye' by Sosin and Clark best book ever written about Fish. Take Mr. Worralls recomendation and pick up a copy this winter. | |
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Best book(s) or Video(s) on Muskie behavior/movement?