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Posts: 119
Location: Sioux Narrows | I read on another board and as well on the Vermillion Dam lodge site that it has been canncelled due to lack of entries, which is disappointing I was looking forward to making the trek from the north country to fish some different waters. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I figured that was going to be the case, the hype wasn't there at all. Too bad, I had a great time covering the Classic last year and was loking forward to covering it this year too. |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Yah, I was really looking forward to the Classic again this year too!!!
Gonna miss Minnesota's Muskies.....
jlong |
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Location: north central wisconsin | I can't see why you would want to go back j. HMM.
If anyone has any more info on the cancelling please post. Was looking forward to checking it out one of these years. Hopefully it comes back... |
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| In my opinion (Only my opinion) There was not enough advertising about this event. I had my money in and was also very disappointed to see it cancelled. I can imagine it takes alot of work and planning for an event like this. I appreciate him (Bob) trying to get this thing off the ground. It is a chance for us no name muskie guys to get some exposure and make this a great sport. It is truely sad that it did not pan out.
Where else can you get those odds at making that kind of coin?
My understanding is that non of the lure manufacturers would not kick any money in for this event. If Muskie tournament fishing is going to grow we need events like this. (Maybe there are more people out there that are not wanting them then I think)
Think if we didn't have the Pmtt or the WMT. for us adrenline junkies it would be a sad day.
I applaud Bob for trying to do it. This is no small task
I just hope the bashing I heard about the tournament last year (Not having enough judge boats) Was not the cause for this. I hope this makes people think about what they write on these sites. Be it good or bad. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Wasn't any bashing here, and there won't be, either. I'm certain that had little or no real effect, bashing by anonymous folks carries almost no weight anyway. I was there last year, and the event went just fine. Not to worry, that won't be the last time you see a well run big money event in the Muskie world. |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | I fished it last year...would have again...but it took me 2 years to pay for it and I had to not go on my week musky trip with my buddies. This year we went to the Big V for the week with 9 guys. We had tough catching but a great time and already have our trip for 06' set up.
Bob and his group put on a great event. Even to the point that I don't think I will fish many other small time tourneys in the future because they won't compare. Still I was expecting a bit more tourney sponsorship and TV coverage (on the level of the big time bass stuff). I think it might be a few years and Bob (or someone else) will pull it off on that level. Look back 10 years and remember where the musky tourneys were then. I think in a few more years it will get to the bass tourney level and maybe even blow it out of the water!
Another thing is, I have hard a hard time finding Bob's shows and the 3 episodes of the tourney. I only have one friend with a certain dish network that got it. Used to be Bob's shows were on the local networks out of Green Bay. More publicity would have helped. |
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | That tourney was too rich for my blood, but it is neccessary, to elevate our sport to the prestige of walleye and bass fishing. I know that alot of you ( and myself as well) do not really want any more competition on the water, but, like it or not, this sport is growing by leaps and bounds. Tournaments drive developments in the fishing industry. Without them, we would not have superline, or, more than one viable rod company, or for that matter, so many great bait makers out there today. I sure hope that tourney gets going again. |
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| If he had it on Minnetonka some year Im betting it would sell out in 2 weels |
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| Joemusky,
I appreciate your opinion ,but why would you not fish it cause Bobs name is on it ? And if you are going to make a statement like that please tell us more. Better yet don't put it on here. Tell me over a cold one if we ever meet.
I don't know Bob M or most of the guys on this site. I hear rumors like everyone out there and I leave them at that. Just rumors .
I just hope we can someday have tournaments like the FLW and others where we have a shot at this type of money
I was crushed when I heard it was cancelled. My partner and I had spent alot of money and time fishing and researching this lake for the tournament.
I think guys like Tom Mcinnis (WMT) and the IMTT (Dan Johnson and the boys) and anyone else out there trying to promote our sport deserve to be thanked. I could not imagine the time and dedication it takes to set this up. Without tournaments I would have never met the clowns I know today. (Might be a good thing now that I think of it)
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Posts: 1939
Location: Black Creek, WI | Rick Hess - 8/29/2005 9:35 AM
My partner and I had spent alot of money and time fishing and researching this lake for the tournament.
Money well spent I would suspect. Heck... I'm not cancelling my "pre-fishing trip" just because the tourney is toast. Lake Vemilion is a wonderful place, and I'm lookin' forward to going up there this weekend just to reminisce!
I'll always be thankful Bob M gave me a reason to visit Minnesota.
jlong |
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| It was money well spent . What a great body of water. We were going to go to Vermillian and just fish for fun but the WMT has its southern tournament the weekend before on Okauchee and Pewaukee $20,000.00 first place if we can get a full field. Taking the Simply Fishing money and putting it towards the IMTT and WMT tournaments for the rest of this year. |
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Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | Rick Hess - 8/29/2005 9:35 AM
Joemusky,
I appreciate your opinion ,but why would you not fish it cause Bobs name is on it ? And if you are going to make a statement like that please tell us more. Better yet don't put it on here. Tell me over a cold one if we ever meet.
I didn't edit my original post....where did I write I wouldn't fish it because of Bob? I highly respect him. I wrote "I will have a hard time fishing other small tournements because they just wouldn't compare". Only reason I didn't sign up for the second one was because of money and having to give up my week trip with my buds.
Oh ya I like beer too!
Edited by Jomusky 8/31/2005 8:14 PM
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Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | Hi Rick,
I am a friend of Jomusky and Jason Long (do not hold it against them). When they got back from the Classic last year, they had nothing but great things to say about Bob, and the way he handled himself and the way the tourney was run. I'm sorry if you had mis-interpreted anything. |
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| there was another post immediately after Jomusky's by a non-registered person called "Joemusky"...it was pretty negative toward Bob M, as Rick Hess pointed out...saying he'd never do anything that Bob was associated with.
it was deleted shortly after it was posted...thus, Rick's response was to that post, not anything that the Jomusky said. |
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | We all stand corrected. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jomusky likes beer???? NOOOO, I don't BELIEVE it! Hey JM, stop by if you're in the area this weekend, we have a bit of an impromptu outing forming up here. |
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| Sorry if you thought I was talking about you. I was talking about the post that got pulled. I'll still have a cocktail with you if you want . I'll have a cocktail with all of you if you want ? Just don't expect me to buy all night. HAHAHA. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Hey, I'm up for that! |
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| I heard it wasnt run so well, 50"plus fish held 20 minutes for a judge boat.
Dan |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'I heards' don't get it here. The on-the-water part was run very well, I was there. I was on the water with Mr. Cain as a judge one day, and can tell you the reaction time for a fish caught was good. |
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A lot of "I heards" came from people who fished it. I am good friends with several anglers that fished it.
There was a 15 minute plus wait for a judge boat at the Chip this year. Confirmed to me by people in the tourney.
These long waits are the dirty little secrets of the judge boat tournies. Everyone who promotes them denies it, but participants tell a different story.
So it all come down to credibility, who do you believe.
JS |
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Location: MPLS, MN | john skarie - 9/2/2005 12:09 PM
There was a 15 minute plus wait for a judge boat at the Chip this year. Confirmed to me by people in the tourney.
These long waits are the dirty little secrets of the judge boat tournies. Everyone who promotes them denies it, but participants tell a different story.
Sweet. Obviously tournies are bad for the fish. I don't think anyone could say a 15 minute or even an extra 5 minute wait is good for the fish. Like Pete Maina says it's about ego. |
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| What's the problem with a 15 minute wait when the fish is in a big net, in the water? I'm sure the anglers were keeping the fish upright, and helping regain it's strength. Much like they would do anyway before they released it. Besides, there are so few fish caught in these tourneys in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. Alot more incidental catches are made where the fish is not released at all.
Dirty little secrets? I think not. I am also good friends with many who fished Bob's tourney last year, and not one of them complained about the tourney. The weather, yes. But they all told me the tourney was very well run and organized, and I "heard" very few complaints.
You don't like judge boat tourneys. That is evident. I think it's more that you don't like tourneys, period, judge boat or not.
As for the cancellation, I just think the tournout was not there because of financial reasons. The entry fee is too high, and the payout too small. In order to have the kind of payout that will attract more than the hardcore and wealthier anglers, a major corporate sponsor is needed. You can't have 100 boats at that entry fee, and only pay to 20 or fewer places. Given the nature of muskie fishing, and the relatively few fish that are actually caught in tournaments, it's a difficult undertaking to increase the payback to the anglers. |
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Location: MPLS, MN | Guest - 9/2/2005 12:30 PM
What's the problem with a 15 minute wait when the fish is in a big net, in the water?
You don't like judge boat tourneys. That is evident. I think it's more that you don't like tourneys, period, judge boat or not.
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I think you're talking to John but:
It's added UNDUE stress. You can make excuses to justify your behavior but it is what it is.
I don't like Tournies and think they are bad for Muskie fishing for a number of reasons. However I don't think they should be banned or anything. I just don't think it's good for the fish and compitition and $$$ are the opposite reasons I fish. |
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What I don't like is people who tout themselves as "muskie pros" holding fish in pens so they can win money, and think that it's O.K.
Added stress incereases delayed mortalilty.
That is a fact gentlemen, and "pros" should be aware of that, and not justify added stress because they can cash in on money and fame. "Pros" should be handling fish with utmost care, and respecting the resource that they claim to love.
"Pros" should be setting the example to the rest of the fishing communityon how to treat our resources with respect, so we can all continue to enjoy them.
John Skarie
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Those fish are handled quickly, kept in the water until measurement, and incur no more stress than many or for that matter most 'amature' captures; in fact, I submit most experience less. You're entitled to your opinion about pro anglers, but are not entitled to take an unfair shot at them here. Dirty little secrets?? If indeed there was a wait for a judge boat, that's the exception, not the rule. I'm certain the angler took good care of that fish, too.
By the way, there were no 'pens' at the event that I'm aware of, the fish were handled by judge boats on the water. I was out on the last day as a judge with Chad Cain, and we stayed right with our Pro boat the entire day.
As for Pros and respect for the resource, you are definitely WAY off the mark there, and sound not just a little self righteous in the process. Every single one of the anglers I have met whether it's at 125 boat team events like the Kevin Worrall Memorial Classic or the PMTT have utmost respect for the resource, and treat the fish they catch with the greatest care possible.
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Posts: 827
Location: Minneapolis,Minnesota | I fished the other big $$ tournament last year (Mike James) and have to say the judge boats were on top of things. All the fish we witnessed had judge boats to them within a minute or two...we had the judge boat pulling up to us before we had the fish in the net. So I guess with my experience I would have to say judge boats are great if done right. |
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Posts: 172
| From the guys I talk to, the judge boats had very little to do with it. There were only around 26 fish caught by 80 boats in 5 days. I also think if you take a look at who caught fish, you will see by their names almost all of them know how to handle fish.
The reason they told me was it was very unorganized or just too expensive to do again. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Backlash,
I was there, and the on the water portion of event was not one bit disorganized, nor was the awards ceremony, I have that entire thing on tape, as well as the morning start up each day. The rules meeting was, partially because it was underway late, but probably more than any reason because the officials allowed questions and interruptions and didn't manage to get the crowd quiet and under control quickly, whcih comes with experience.
I attend about 15 Pro Walleye and Muskie tournaments a year, and this one was as good as many that are part of circuits that have been around for awhile. |
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| Now I know why I don't post on these web sites that often.
We better get rid of the Zoo's. I saw a monkey throwing dung in his cage one time. He must had been stressed too.
Let the monkeys loose!
My last post. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Hey Rick, why is it MuskieFIRST's 'fault' John Skarie wants to have his say( as much as I disagree with what was said)? Is it a bad thing to discuss the issues of the day, despite the fact some folks don't want to stay within the polite rules of debate? We don't allow any argument to get out of hand, and try very hard to keep it pretty clean here. Most, in fact the vast majority of the threads here are information based and very positive.
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Posts: 172
| Steve
I can only tell you what I was told by the guys that I know that fished it. I wasn't there like you were. I also heard some good things and was only commenting as to why some of the guys I know were not going to fish it again this year. I know some who wanted to fish it again. Good or bad, there had to be a reason the tournament could not get enough people to fish it. |
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| In my post I had never mentioned it being Muskie Firsts fault.
Everyone has there right to there opinion. Just as I had (Even though I was joking about the monkeys)
Muskie First can be a valuable resource of information there is no doubt. I was not blaming them for anything anyone has said. I mearly stated that I think I'll keep my opinion to myself from now on and not make another post. Even though I had to reply back to you.
I'll stick to helping people on here with there fiberglass or gel-coat issues if they want it.
Sorry if you took me wrong.
I did see that monkey do it
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That's what I was worried about, you have valuable information many might eventually ask about, would hate to see you not willing to post, and would do what I could to convice you to... 
Backlash,
Agreed, I'm just making sure we stick to the facts during the discussion. |
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | I think if you have total respect for the resource you don't fish at all. Of course that is the best for it. So you have to talk about degree of negative affect. That's why I would never tell someone they can't fish a tourny or keep a fish if they choose. However I still feel tourny life is about ego and money and I fish to get away from that. I also know that any added stress will increase mortality. Whether it's waiting for a judge boat or holding the fish up for a picture. So to me each is entitled to make their own choice on the degree they are willing to add to the fish. I just don't think any added stress is worth it just to make a buck or hype oneself up. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There's the problem, you don't understand the competitive angler. Only one team wins, JUST ONE. Seciond Place is, as they say, first loser. Anyone who thinks they will make a living at competitive muskie angling is delusional, so that's not it either. Most of the competitors are not in this to 'make a buck or hype oneself up', they are in it because they enjoy the challenge, the competition, and the comraderie. Tournament angling can be alot of fun, I see it all the time. In most every case except for a few Walleye Pros and a slightly larger Bass professional base, no one is making much of a living on fishing tournaments.
So tell me who won the last three PMTT events. Quick now, don't go look, just list them. That's what I thought, very few others could answer that, either. So much for hyping, right? Now in the case of Bob's event, Jason Long has a ring and a check. What's his partner's name? He won a couple more last year too, and is one heck of a stick. Nice guy, too.
Most cases the tournamnet folks take very good care of the resource. The competitive force out there is also responsible for much of the development of the products most of us enjoy, that's another point. All in all, competitive angling has such an insignificant biological impact and such a major promotional and industry impact, the positives outweigh the negatives IMHO. Most of the negatives, by the way are perceived, not reality.
As far as respect for the resource, the entire idea behind a state managing any water for Muskies is angling, pure and simple. Without the desire to fish for them by the public, there would have beenand would not be any management, so not fishing muskies out of 'respect' would be devastating in many waters. Look at what Cory Painter and a few dedicated folks are doing in Wisconsin, that's a direct result of fishing muskies, and fishing them alot! |
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Keeping muskies in a net over the side of a boat is penning them up.
As far as I'm concerned, that's as amatuer as you can get when it comes to handling muskies.
Plain and simple, muskies are handled longer during tournies so people can win money and beat their chest.
If that's not the case, if you guys aren't fishing for those reasons than get rid of the money, and just fish.
You can call me selfrightous and impolite all you want. What I am is blunt, and I'm saying things you don't want to hear.
I'm not out to win a popularity contest with tournament fishermen, or "pros".
JS |
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Location: MPLS, MN | sworrall - 9/2/2005 3:11 PM
1.] There's the problem, you don't understand the competitive angler.
2.] Most cases the tournamnet folks take very good care of the resource. The competitive force out there is also responsible for much of the development of the products most of us enjoy, that's another point.
3.] As far as respect for the resource, the entire idea behind a state managing any water for Muskies is angling, pure and simple. Without the desire to fish for them by the public, there would have beenand would not be any management, so not fishing muskies out of 'respect' would be devastating in many waters.
1.] No, I don't understand competitive angling. I fish to get away from that. The day to day grind of work is enough competition for me. Like I said though, I don't try to ban people from it. I just throw in my 2 cents on the issue.
2.] The fact is most people do not fish tournies and before there were tournies there were many products to choose from and I feel that new products would always come about. Plus most new products are mere rip offs of the old ones before the big tournie days. Muskies Inc would be around without tournies. Lure companies also. I don't give much credit, if any to tournies for that.
3.] Sure on stocked water it would be. But if the fish went untouched on natural waters I don't see the negative. Fish have survived thousands and thousands of years in natural waters that went untouched. So if no one fished we would have a much more natural resource and I feel that would be the best for it. Don't get me wrong, I fish every weekend. Just stating that if no one fished, the NATURAL {Not artificial stocking} resource would be better off.
To each their own. That's just my opinion though. No hard feelings or any of that.
Edited by Obfuscate Musky 9/2/2005 3:43 PM
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Location: Lafayette, IN | John,
I tend to think more like you than most on this board. (maybe not) Having said that, even though I outgrew the "I caught a bigger (more) fish than you" thing many years ago I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I've learned volumes more from those hard nosed competitors in bass and musky fishing. They inspire me to work a little harder, to refine my presentations, to take advantage of peek windows, to not become lazy about excelling in an activity I've enjoyed my whole life. I don't see myself outfishing most people but I still get a tremendous thrill knowing that with every fish caught I'm demonstating a better understanding of what the competitors have taught me through their hard work. Have I learned from non-competitive anglers? YOU BET!!! Just not as much. There's certainly room for both. Oh, did I mention I take pictures of most of my fish? (bass included) Now why do you suppose I do that?
Thanks for sharing you honest thoughts. There's room for that. Now....prepare to cast......CAST!
Edited by stephendawg 9/2/2005 3:49 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mr. Skarie,
Again, you are stating the extreme, not the usual. It's obvious you don't like Pros and don't like tournments, either, so that's been established. You overstate the issue, and are just plain rude in your commentary, which is a far sight from 'blunt'. That's where credibility ends, popularity contests notwithstanding. Let's get you in a room with 100 teams fishing the Kevin Worrall memorial, and see how nasty and personal you are willing to be in attacking those anglers.
Your perspective is different, and that, sir doesn't make you right/wrong or the competitive anglers right/wrong. I stated that muskie mortality from handling in Competitive events is statitically and boiologically insignificant. I stand by that statement.
And, you are way off topic, beating a drum which has nothing to do with the original conversation.
OM,
'2.] The fact is most people do not fish tournies and before there were tournies there were many products to choose from and I feel that new products would always come about. Plus most new products are mere rip offs of the old ones before the big tournie days. Muskies Inc would be around without tournies. Lure companies also. I don't give much credit, if any to tournies for that.'
Well, Ive been working in that industry for thirty years, and can tell you in absolutley NO uncertain terms that competition and tournies out there have driven new product development for that entire 30 years. Boats, gear, lures, and more, competition and promotion are part of the game and critical to developing new products. Muskie Inc used and uses competition; both tournaments and the Lunge Log, to drive recruitment and spread the word about muskie conservation, and without that competition in each club on a hometown level all the way to the International that organization wouldn't be where it is, and that's a fact. August issue, MI magazine, Page 38. Pomme De Terre Muskie open tournament. $4000 cash and prizes. Page 34, Headwaters report, talks about the succes of the Spring Challenge Tournament, $15000 first place, this is a very established event. Page 35, Hayward Chapter talks about the 27th annual Fall Tournament. Another established event, this is the 27th year. Page 33, sidebar mention of 8 tournaments hosted by local clubs. Page 26, Frank Schneider International, 38th time this one has hit the water. Page 16, full page for the Hayward Lakes chapter event. You get my point, I think.
This isn't a 'purist's' sport, and probably never will be. I persoanlly feel that's a good thing. Everyone has the choice to fish competitively or not, and those who wish to will, those who wish not to won't. I feel it's equally important that neither group attempts to minimize or diminish the importance of the other, that's self destructive to the sport. I appreciate your position, and believe it or not understand it completely'
To no one in particular:
I guess I have a problem with folks who contribute little to the knowledge base here, rarely or never answering questions or providing advice or help to those looking for it, who arbitrarily show up to toss a rock at someone's plate glass window once in awhile just to break the thing. Sorry for the rant...
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Posts: 172
| John,
Let me ask you a question. If every boat had a judge in it and the fish was measured and released right away, would that be ok with you or is it just the money thing that bothers you? Be nice. |
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Location: MPLS, MN | As far as new products it's truely impossible to know. I feel we would have many of the same products we have now. Maybe not all but maybe differant ones. I feel the sport would be just fine without them. But again I'm not trying to ban tournies. To me basically like I said it's the opposite reason I personaly fish. The thing I personaly think is unarguable is the longer they are handled the worse off they are. Whether it's waiting for a judge boat or taking a pictures, and I do the latter on anything over 40"s.
Edited by Obfuscate Musky 9/2/2005 5:20 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Om,
Yes, the first paragraph was in response to Mr. Skarie's statements. |
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | LOL, I just noticed that and edited my post.
thanks |
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| About Steve's statement about those who show up once in a while and throw rocks at the glass.....
(if I knew how do do the fancy quote window thing I would)
RIGHT ON STEVE...........
Some people only know how to point fingers and complain, and that has nothing to do with stating an opinion, people fish, people compete, some people like to do both BIG DEAL. I am willing to wager more fish are harmed from I'll equipped beginners every day than all the "pros" combined . If the rock throwers are so "worried" about the resource they should flat out quit or take it upon themselves to educate every single novice in the sport about fish handleing. It's always the same people lurking and ready to point fingers that contribute so little to the good stuff that happens on these boards.
And my personal observation is that since I started keeping my fish "penned" in the net a bit longer all I have to do is tip them out and they swim strongly away.....much more so than if I rush to get them out and "release" them.
Bob T |
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Simply Fishing Muskie Classic cancelled