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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | While fishing in Canada last week (Dogtooth Resort), I learned a valuable lesson. "Always attach the leader to your line with a snap or split ring. Do not attach a super line like PowerPro directly to the flouro material. The super line can cut the line over time. We were trolling Zam's on "yellow bird's" and we hooked a snag on the inshore bird. When I tried to lift the limb to reach the lure, the leader and line parted company. Fortunately when we retreived the lure. I had thought the knot failed, but no the line had worn through the leader material over time- checked my other two rig's and found similar wear. Fortunately no fish lost.
So if you're using ZaltNAD "No-See-Um"TM Flourocarbon Leaders with super lines, use a snap or split ring to attach the leader to the line. Even then check the attachment points of the flouro for wear periodically.
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 7/7/2005 1:52 PM
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Posts: 4266
| I hear ya.
I use the best welded ring barrel swivels that I can find to make the conection, and check the knots and the entire leader every time I deploy the line.
Only takes a second, but if I feel anything that is rough or feels weird, I'll tie a new one.
Beav |
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| solid advice
I've seen superlines cut into composite boat cleats (long, stupid story). I'm a flouro fan and superline fan but will never splice them directly--great place for a barrel swivel. |
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| What lb. test was the flouro?
Brian |
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Posts: 140
| I know Herbie does a double uniknot to attach his flurocarbon to braid. I haven't heard of any failures, but don't know how often he reties. How many wraps did you use on both ends?
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Posts: 15
Location: Menominee MI, in Da UP, eh? | Even eye and Bass fishing, I learned a good lesson long ago, a barrel swivel is the best bet. Personally, consider nothing other than stainless steel ball bearing swivels, it is worth the extra cost.
I do have a question though, what would you consider an optimum length of fluorocarbon for a leader? |
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Posts: 663
| I've used the double uni-knot connection too at times with no failures but then I do check the line and change the connection on a fairly frequent basis. Were you using the double-uni? Since that knot is essentialy two knots jamming together I don't think the fluorocarbon would cut in as it might with some other knot connection choices. Can you fill me in as to what type of connection you were tying? Just curious. Thanks. |
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Posts: 56
| This year, I started using flourocarbon leaders on all my rods. I've been very careful to inspect and be prepared to redo a leader if ever I felt the need. I've caught 5 muskies up to 38" and load of pike and only had one instance that I felt I needed to make another leader. No leader type; steel, flouro, sevenstrand or whatever is immune to failure. I have kept using flourocarbon because I feel the transparent qualities and increased bait action give me more hits and hookups.
Steve |
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Posts: 141
| Flouro is no where near as asbrasion resistant as wire, try rubbing both across the edge of a brick, if you care about these fish wire is the only safe option. |
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Posts: 3876
| I pee flourcarbon.
Around 130 muskies in the boat over the last 3 years, and not a single failure of a floro leader. I use wire occassionally, too, like for glide baits.
Most of mine are 12" or so.
I always tie my 80# PowerPro to a Bucher Super SplitRing that is in turn attached to a swivel. The splitring is so I can do my 8's without fear of reeling the line into the top eye. Even a Uniknot, I imagine, would get hung on the top eye on a boatside strike. Swivels through the top eye at night is a royal pain in the Republican.
Hope this is helpful.
Al, you stinker, you stole the idea I stole from Extreme Mike and now you are profiting. You'll be hearing from my attorneys. |
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Posts: 105
| i have seen the crimps give out on casts before, this was 80# test. they can be slippery. i have used them in 130# test and loved them, i think the thicker test allows a more dependable crimp, just more to hold on to.  |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Neither my line knot or the leader knot failed. Both knots were super glued. The line knot loop cut through the leader knot loop material. Keep in mind I tied my superline directly to the flouro leader top loop. My "No-See-Um" flourocarbon jerk bait leaders don't have top attachment hardware only a knot with a small attachment loop. (I recommend that anyone using one of my leaders attach it to their super line with a snap or split ring. ) The original premise was, "the less hardware the better". Sounds good in theory, but in practice not so good with super lines.
I was careless and over confident and hadn't realized the risk of not using an attachment device, i.e., barrel swivel, snap or split ring. The super line cut through the flouro leader from pressure and vibration over time. We were trolling the Zam's at between 3.5 & sometimes 4.5 mph (Lowrance XT15 GPS speed) Heck we even went up to 9 mph & were catching fish. The Zam has a very erratic wiggle, and it's very hard to get one to blow out of the water. My big mistake was thinking my setup was invincible. I didn't retie or check it often enough. Even then this would have been hard to find. The real lesson was to check your stuff regularly including all attachment points.
I don't think you would see this problem attaching mono to flouro, only super lines.
I use 80lb flourocarbon (Ande/Climax/Stren) and tie them with a 5 wrap cinch knot using a knot tying tool I created - then I finish them with drop of superglue. I know a lot of folks like Seagar, but I think it's softer than the other three.
No Ranger- I'm not tying them with your knot/leader construction method. So call off "Shyster, Finagle, and Swindle"! I think I found an easier method, i.e., tightening the knot down is easy. I can easily tie up to 200lb flourocarbon.
As for folks who "get cut off using flouro!". I think this is a fundamental controlling the fish/drag problem. Back off the drag immediately! This is something I learned very early in my fishing experiences. Watch some of Pete Mania's video's where the other guy in the boat has just connected with a fish. What's usually the first words out of Pete's mouth?
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 317
| If flouro is good enough for barracuda, Kingfish, Tarpon, Sharks, and any other fish that would eat the biggest Muskie for lunch, then it's good enough for any Esox. |
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| Offshore and surf fisherman need to make this same connection without the use of hardware, so that the long flouro leader can be wound through the guides (and onto the reel) without causing any problems. Do a Google search for the SIG knot, made by tying a bimini twist in the end of the braid (to form a loop), and using the SIG to connect the flouro to the braid. It has proven to be very reliable. |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Dispatcher- Thank's. I'm going to give it a try. I really like not having any hardware at the top of the leader.
Have fun!
Al |
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| What you are explaining and a uninot situation are two different things. It is understandable that the line wore through the leader due to how it was connected. I think using a split ring in between would solve your problem, but otherwise get leaders without the "loop" on the end and you should be in business. Then the suggestions others have made would work. With the loop in the leader you cannot join the two as they suggested. |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | i havent had a floro leader fail me yet. but as someone else has already said, any leader material can and probably will fail at some point for various reasons.
when making my floro leaders, i crimp them leaving enough of a tag end to then tie a knot as well. this knot is then glued. as was mentioned earlier i check the leaders every few casts to feel for nicks etc and if i find any it is immediately switched for a new leader. |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | I tried the Sig with the Bimmi Twist, it works. But after a bit of playing around (~$10 of flouro) I found a double nail knot to be the ideal solution. No way for the superline to cut the fluorocarbon, and a drop of superglue seals the deal!
Thanks for all the feedback.
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 7/12/2005 7:11 PM
Attachments
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 Double Nail Knot .JPG (12KB - 157 downloads)
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Posts: 6
| I've been tying 80lb power pro directly to Flourocarbon line for 3 years with no problems until I switched from Seagar to Berkly Vanish Flourocarbon line. I found the braid was cutting through the Vanish Flourocarbon on hard backlashes, Luckily no fish lost because of it.. I went back to seagar 80lbs for casting and 130lb for trolling and have never had a problem since. Maybe it's your knot, maybe it's you floro line. I use the same type knot but do 2 to 3 loops around the Flourocarbon line to spread out the pressure from the braid.
That Double nail knot is interesting. Can you tie 80lb+ Flourocarbon?
gb
www.georgianbaymusky.com |
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Posts: 2068
Location: Appleton,WI | I started this year with 60# and 80# climax flourocarbon and love it!Caught my first fish this year with it,experimented last year with flouro on quick strick rigs but 7 strand excelled.I use the light flouro for small baits or clear water.No fails yet and the fish even rolled in it!Just be carefull and change often! |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | gb- That's 80lb flourocarbon tied to 65 lb PowerPro..... I can tie a nail knot/cinch knot w/ 130 lb flourocarbon. Haven't tried 200 lb. but don't think it should be problem.
Have fun!
Al |
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