|
|
| I was watching outdoor world today at 6:30 (5:30 central) with Pete Mania. He said that it was pointless to figure eight unless a fish was following. What is your opinion? Figure eight on every cast or L-turn?
MJB |
|
| |
|
| I disagree, I may not see them coming, especially when I hit darker waters like Butternut or Flambeau River.
Rob
www.herecomesshowseason.com[:praise:] |
|
| |
|
| Pete Maina is a nut and doesn't know what he's talking about[:p]. What does he REALLY know about muskies and muskie fishing [:devil:]. Seriously, I've had fish come from under the boat and at a 90 deg angle to hit a figure 8. I've also seen fish I wouldn't have while doing a figure 8. It's a good habit to get into. I missed out on my "white whale" because I blew off a fig 8 and pulled it out of her mouth.
Servay sayes" Figure 8 every cast.[:bigsmile:] |
|
| |
|
| Rob has a good point...
I do figure eight all the time on darker waters. On clear water lakes I just do a good L turn.
I have caught fish on the Wisconsin river that I never saw behind my bait. |
|
| |
|
| I come very, very close to doing a figure 8, comma, "L", or some change of direction on every cast. I have had fish come from under the boat, verticle, and every other direction to hit a bait. Some follows have been 5' plus behind the bait and a couple of feet below the bait that I wouldn't have seen without the figure 8. I try to keep the attitude that every cast is the one for the fish of a lifetime. That fish will only come once and I don't want to miss the opportunity because I was lazy! |
|
| |
|
| I have heard Pete Maina say just the opposite. That surprises me. I do a figure eight even in clear water. I have had fish come from absolutley nowhere and hit a bait on a figure eight. |
|
| |
|
| I agree, some form of change of direction should be done on every cast. I try real hard to either 'L' or '8' on each cast.
Although, I fished Razorback last year and it was real hard to do when you could see the bottom in about 12 foot.
Scott |
|
| |
|
| I would disagree with NOT doing a figure 8 after every cast. I like to try to get at least one full "8" after every cast. Something that is easier said than done at the end of a long day.
Dark water or a good chop on the surface makes it hard to see into the water. If the fish is back a few feet you'll never know if something was back there.
At the very least make a "L" turn and look behind the bait! |
|
| |
|
| I don't do the figure 8 at all,I have missed to some big fish doing it,some can't make the turn to stay on the bait.I started doing a very large oval,sometimes with most of the rod down deep into the water.I have connected more times doing this then a figure 8.On realy bluebird days in gin clear water ,I only do a quick L as well.
Capt. Larry |
|
| |
|
| I always do a figure after every cast, I usually don't see follows until I've started the figure 8. |
|
| |
|
| Fished Cave Run this Oct. and only caught 2 fish but one was on a figure 8 . Saw the guy I was fishing with miss a good one by pulling out of a figure 8 too soon. Only saw 4 fish on the trip and half the fish were on figure 8s. You tell me , is it useless??? |
|
| |
|
| Maybe he meant that it was a waste of time if the fish weren't following. A bit like saying it's a waste of time casting 9999 times 'cause you only need the cast that catches the fish![:bigsmile:] |
|
| |
|
| I'm with Larry....no fig 8s, just big ovals. Too many fish seem to get stuck in the turn and just sit there seeming to say "you see how big I am? and you think I can turn HOW?". Also, it's hard to believe Pete said that, saw him do a tank demonstration of his baits...even then he was doing fig 8s!!??
Slamr |
|
| |
|
| Hi,
In most cases, I don't do a complete 8 on every cast. I am, however, religious about doing an L-turn on every cast, and that usually includes the first half-loop of a figure-8 as I'm picking the bait out of the water.
I see people making 2 or 3 figure-8s after every cast sometimes, and it has always puzzled me. Last summer I even saw a couple guys going down to their knees and doing a figure-8 after every cast, then standing up and casting again. Figure-8s are tiring, and if you add up the time it takes to do them, you are losing quite a few casts over the course of a day's fishing, much less an entire season. A well-executed L-turn will usually allow enough time to see if a fish is there, and the direction change alone is usually enough to get deep-riding fish to show themselves.
That having been said, I will do a full 8 in extremely dirty water or when water conditions (glare, bloom, etc.) make it impossible to see well. Other than that, I don't bother.
Cheers,
RK |
|
| |
|
| As far as I'm concerned a cast is not completed until the Fig 8 has been done. I remember one time when my son had a 44 inch fish follow up a depthraider when he did the eight a second fish about the same size charged out from under the boat and hammered the lure (Fish ON) as he was fighting the fish I cast back at the original fish and got hit we now had twins on. If he had not done that eight we would not have known that other fish was there
Do an eight every time!!!!!!!!
See Ya At The Shows
|
|
| |
|
| Whether, it be an oval or a figure eight, do one on every cast even if the water is ultra clear. A fish can come from nowhere, you would swear nothing was around and crash you bait boatside. All it takes is one.[:p] |
|
| |
|
| Interesting discussion but no set rules on this one that I can see. I rarely figure eight at the end of the cast and rarely circle. In some waters I fish it is uncommon to have any kind of a hot follow. In other waters I am very conscious of extending the retrieve near the boat to allow an unseen fish to commit.
I hate to spring any of my really screwy ideas before New Years but I look for follows and boatside hits in particular contours with shallow to deep retrieves. I rarely look for much in the way of follows when fishing steep drops or steep banks. |
|
| |
|
| I have a friend that slow rolls a large tandem spinnerbait of the deep weed edge most of the time he is fishing which is considerable. His best season to date is something over 100 fish. (I told you he gets out a lot) Of these fish over 90 were caught on the figure 8 at boat side. I did not figure 8 or turn an L nearly as often before he finally confided in me. My thanks to him forever. I now at least turn my bait at the boat on every cast and always figure 8 a following fish. If you use a long enough rod and make really big turns even big fish can make the turn with your lure. But I believe you are missing fish by not doing a figure 8 at the boat.
Let Em Go...Let Em Grow.....Mike |
|
| |
|
| Here’s my thinking about blind figure-8s and this may be a little reason why Pete says what he is saying as we have talked about this quite a bit.
First I always try to do an “L” or something like that. I do this every time as its part of my boat side ritual. I reel the lure to almost the rod tip, and start the “L”, when I’m doing this I’m also switching the rod from my left hand to my right hand and pushing the button to get ready for the next cast. This is being very efficient, as the “L” lets a following fish catch up, and I’m able to see the fish and continue into a figure-8. At the same time I’m getting ready to make the next cast. Occasionally the “L” turn will get a fish to strike. And I do catch a number of fish every year on figure-8s, but only if I see a fish behind my lure.
Usually if a fish is so far behind the lure that the “L” doesn’t let the fish catch up, the fish isn’t hot enough to be catchable.
Figure-8’s are to me a much lower percentage way of catching fish than casting in another spot. The highest percentage of the fish I catch in the boat (I’ve had thousands and so has Pete) come during the retrieve, and not on figure-8s. My records show that I get about 1 fish out of 10 (it varies some each year) on figure-8s on the part of the LOTWs that I fish. It also shows that I get about 1 fish in the boat for every 10 fish that I had follows. Doing the math it means that for every 100 fish that I see I catch one on a figure-8.
I don’t really like the odds.
To me the percentage is to take the time that you use in doing a blind figure-8 and make more casts to different spots during the day. Ask your self how many fish you have caught on blind figure-8s and think if more casts per day wouldn’t put more fish in your boat? It’s easy to remember when it worked, but how many times were there when it didn’t work?
I’m also sure that there will be people who will say that they do much better on figure-8s than I do, but this is based on my records from 35 years of fishing on the lake, and about 2,500 fish. No doubt there are lakes (this no doubt varies some) that are better, and I know that there are lakes that are worse. George Wahl (of Eagle Tail fame) has told me that he’s never caught a muskie on a figure-8 in Whitefish Bay.
To me the thing that is important is to be able to see the fish. This is a little like being able to see deer in the woods. You have to “watch and learn what to look for”, I get all kinds of people who are not able to see fish. I can see them as plain as day, but they don’t see them, and pull their lure out of the water even though there is a fish right behind their lure. I suppose this comes with time on the water, but this is a very important skill to learn.
To me blind figure-8s are like taking a shot in the woods once in a while in hope that you will hit a deer, not a very high percentage thing to do.
Here’s another interesting fact, in 25 years of guiding and 35 years of fishing for muskies I’ve caught 3 muskies on blind figure-8s, and I’ve done lots of them. As far as I can remember I don’t think I’ve ever had a client catch a fish doing a blind figure-8, and I have lots of them who do them every time. It just doesn’t seem to be a very high percentage thing to do.
Learn how to read the water, where should your next cast land. Learn how to watch for the fish, be ready for a follow. That’s what I think works.
Doug Johnson
Oh Yah! A very Happy New Year to EVERYONE, may you all catch the fish you are looking for, and may your personal year be as great!
|
|
| |
|
| dougj,
All that makes alot of sense, thanks for pounding it threw my head[:p] and I had no idea because I do figure-8's everytime[:blackeye:] |
|
| |
|
| Another thing too is how good is your partner at figure eights and watching for fish? I fish with my dad and I seem to see most of his fish before he does. His figure eight technique could use some work too so i wonder how many of those come from nowhere fish he brought up to the boat. Something to consider. |
|
| |
|
| I'm in the same boat as RK, FSF, and especially DougJ. I think the most important aspect is what Doug mentions about learning to read the water. I believe the firm discipline to figure 8 after every cast was established by guides taking out inexperienced anglers. Many of those fish caught on "blind" figure 8's probably would have been seen by an experienced angler with an eagle eye.
What do I do? I "extend my cast" as FSF says by adding some additional hang time, funky twitch, speed increase, or whatever I feel might make a distant fish show itself, or better yet, commit in the last remaining seconds of my cast. If that doesn't work, or I'm using a less versatile lure like a bucktail or prop bait... I do a smooth "L" turn while I prep for another cast (efficiency).
No visual contact = no figure 8 for me. DougJ's philosphy is right on with regard to the percentages. In this rare case... I'm gonna go with the percentages.
jlong
|
|
| |
|
| Gotta get on board with DougJ on this one.
I have always been amazed at some of the numbers I hear tossed around as to percentage of fish caught on the eight. Mine are closer to Doug's then many of the others I hear. I do a direction change on every cast for the same reason Doug does: To let a late fish catch up, they seldom hit. It at least gets the fish spotted, one can then work it for the hit. If you don't do the direction change there will be fish to be caught that you will not know about.
About the only place I do blind 8's are when I have a good fish sighted in a particular spot or on Eagle Lake just because they are sooooooo nice to look at.
Its nice to have a "seasoned veteran" like DougJ to come out and tell the "REAL DEAL" on figure 8's. Thanks Doug! |
|
| |
A figure eight is useless unless....