|
|
| The fourth qualifier of the year is at the Chippewa Flowage the last week of August. Now that is a good schedule finally.
Championship somewhere in MN? |
|
| |
|
| Hmm:
May have to fish this event with my brother. He is the only one I have even been with to catch a fish on the Chip.
Mr. Cap |
|
| |
|
Posts: 440
| Where is the schedule for 2005? I find it interesting that they are going to such a fickle lake especially with the 45" limit. Taking a chance at some seriously low #'s. Then again could be some super horses caught. Just depends on the old girls mood. |
|
| |
|
| Hard to believe there won't be any in Ill. or NY  |
|
| |
|
| Chad G, the 45" will not be the mark to enter fish into the tourny. only 2 boats would enter fish. so, i'm sure they'll drop it to 40", 38", 36" or even 32"...i'd image 32" so more boats can compete.
vail |
|
| |
|
Location: Minneapolis, MN | No IL tourney? Where is the schedule published? Its is not at http://www.promusky.com |
|
| |
|
Posts: 440
| Unless the DNR gives some special ruling for the tournament, the length limit on the Chip is 45". As far as I know the PMTT has always follow the lake length limits. |
|
| |
|
| As the guy that helps do the PMTT website I have not been told of any Chippewa flowage location/date. Or any date for the last 2 qualifiers for that matter.
So until it is announced wait until you bash, scream, yell or celebrate.
S |
|
| |
|
Posts: 172
| Chad
The PMTT events are not tranport tournaments and no fish are kept. The 45 inch limit is set for keeping fish. They can set the limits where they want unless the DNR has a special restriction. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 440
| Can anyone explain why the 40" minimum on Tonka and Cass, 34" on Eagle Chain, 30" on Cave Run. Seems to me they follow State Law. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2361
| Yes I believe fish not to be reduced to possession are supposed to be immediately released. Not held for measurement. It would take a special dispensation by the board to get a smaller size rule for this tourney. My belief anyway. That will be a manly challenge on the Chip at that time of year.
Maybe if they are going to lower the limit they could have special 3 day trolling regs too? LOL. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 440
| Do you know how rich Pastikas could get if they allowed trolling on Chip. Talk about a lure eating pond.
Straight from the PMTT site.
Tournament Scoring
a. 30 (thirty) points for a 34 (thirty-four) inch fish. (Size limits and points will be adjusted higher or lower on some lakes with different size limits and regulations.)
Edited by ChadG 11/12/2004 1:46 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 4
| Shelbyville has a 48" size limit. The PMTT had their limit at 34". |
|
| |
|
Posts: 155
Location: Watertown MN | I believe the big difference is in the state regulations on the definition of "Possession". In MN it is my understanding that a non legal cannot be held in net waiting for judge boat. I would assume The Chip would revert to a 34" minimum. It will be interesting to see the final lakes named for the trail.
Troyz |
|
| |
|
Posts: 440
| Illinois has special regulations wrote very specifically for Musky live release tournaments. Couldn't find nothing like that in Wisconsin's regs yet. Seems to me that there was a fairly heated discussion concerning the WMT series and it got into this area and someone had the DNR ruling on possession for musky tournaments. If anyone finds this pull it up.
I will admit my wrong thinking if you prove it, until then AIN'T NO RAIN here. LOL
Edited by ChadG 11/12/2004 3:22 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 172
| Chad
The championship was held on lake Chautauqua in N.Y. It has a 40 inch limit and the tournament was 34+.
I asked Tim about it and was told as long as we were not transporting and releasing, it was OK. |
|
| |
|
| They also measure 30" fish on the Cave and it has a higher legal limit. They're releasing the fish and handle it better than most. No different than a picture. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2361
| Goonga - 11/12/2004 7:22 PM
They also measure 30" fish on the Cave and it has a higher legal limit. They're releasing the fish and handle it better than most. No different than a picture.
Oh really? Higher limit on the Cave? I must have missed that in the regs this year. |
|
| |
|
| I don't see the big deal here at all. Who cares what they make the size limit. The legal size limits for a lake are set by the state and local DNR for a safe harvest of fish from a lake to insure a healthy population. Harvest of a fish, not measurment of a fish. The fish still has to be measured one way or the other. What is the difference what they make the size limit, you still have to measure the fish one anyway.
I think the way some tourneys do the measuring is for the contestants not to even measure the fish. I think Paul Hartman's are run this way. You hook a fish or as soon as it hits the net you call for a judge. By the time you get it unhooked, the judge is there to measure your fish for you. I am sure there is someone out here that fishes the Hartman tourneys and can confirm this.
So once the fish is measured, as long as it isn't kept in the livewell or transported, who cares what size the tournament counts. The fish has already been measured.
Tom |
|
| |
|
Posts: 197
Location: N Illinois | If this rumor is true, this could be a very tough time to fish this lake. The end of Aug? The lake is usually very low at the end of summer and the fish are scatterred and deep. Leave it to the PMTT to hit a lake during it's toughest conditions. |
|
| |
|
| 99,
Guess you like them easy? Actually if you talk to a few of the GUIDES who fish the flowage they say this is a perfect time! I can't wait!
Great job PMTT. I'll be entering for my first year. Now get higher payouts.
Tom Sjodin |
|
| |
|
| Hey Musky99,
What did the PMTT ever do to you. You never have anything positive to say in your comments about the PMTT when subjects are brought up. It's either they don't pay out enough. They make you travel too much. You want new waters, etc. Well, which one is it? Do you want to travel to new waters or is it too much traveling? The Chip seems to be new water (well 6yrs ago, makes it new again, kind of) but you say leave it to the PMTT for doing this.
Well, from what I have heard from the locals, your contradictory comments are wrong. They say this is the best time to fish the Chip, for action and size.
It seems like nothing makes you happy about the way the PMTT does their business. It sounds like you are the type of person that either never fished a PMTT event before. Or have, and got lucky and did good once and now thinks he is an authority on it? Lets see what happens. The PMTT has done a good job so far in running a musky circuit, the right way, when others have failed.
I for one think the schedule sounds great and hope it turns out to be true. Hopefully they will hold the Champions in Minnesota. Please?
Tom |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Easy gents, hate to have to send this one to the Deleted forum.  |
|
| |
|
Posts: 13
| I can tell you the PMTT will have a new team if they have a tourny at Chautauqua. |
|
| |
|
| I Hope they have one at the Chip, I'll join the PMTT then. I can catch a fish there at the end of August. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2089
| And even "I" could catch a 40" on Vermilion in 3 freakin days!!!!!!!!Not!Hahahahahahahahaha. Steve |
|
| |
|
Posts: 197
Location: N Illinois | Tm Lejac,
First off, I have been fishing the flowage since 1989. I think I know the water preatty well. Maybe I should refrase my statement. I think the flowage is an excellent lake to put the PMTT on, but there are better times to fish this lake than the end of August. What if the bite is tough, which from experience i know this time of year it can be, then the lake gets trashed as the dead sea and the PMTT and tounies, etc, etc. If you want an example, the PMTT was on the Fox Chain in Illinois and the bite was tough. The lake got trashed unbelievably. But anyone who fishes this lake knows it puts out fish. I have seen 4 fish days on this lake. So timing is important when picking a lake.
Second I have fished the PMTT for 4 years and have watched the numbers of participants decline. Why is that? I have been on the rules commitee and have listened to the participants concerns. My questions about the PMTT are not solely my opinions, but of many participants. Why do the numbers decline? I know some have quit because the PMTT hasn't fished on differrent lakes. I know the PMTT has discussed this. Others have quit due to travel and time commitments. Others have stopped participating due to unknown reasons. But the bottom line is, the numbers are declining. That is not something the PMTT or the participants want.
I was always taught if somethings not broke, don't fix it. But, if it's not working, changes need to be made. I would very much like to see the PMTT succeed. I would love to see full fields and full payouts. I guess it does come off as a negative voicing my concerns about the direction of something I care about is going.
Alot of statements were made on rumors also. Now the full schedule is out and it is obvious that the PMTT is listening to those who do and have participated in there events. I wish nothing but the best for the PMTT and hope for not only full fields, but I am looking forward to the day when the PMTT can say it has a full field of trail teams.
Edited by musky99 11/17/2004 12:31 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 172
| Musky99
I think you would have to agree that this year on the PMTT almost every lake we fished had a tough bite. Other than the championship, the numbers were down. I think the biggest reason the PMTT is having problems with teams quiting is the payouts. Teams just can't afford it. If you don't come in 1st or 2nd, you can't pay for your trail.
We finished 11th at Eagle River, 9th at Minnetonka, 11th at the championship and ended up 8th in the Top Gun. We did not fish the Cave and Shelbyville as a team. For that we received $456 each in prize money and spent an estimated $1,600 each for food, lodging, gas and entry fees. They need to figure out how to balance the payouts so teams can afford to remain on the trail.
Bob |
|
| |
|
Posts: 155
Location: Watertown MN | I think Bob hit it right on the head, Payout probably is the biggest reason why teams are dropping out. Plus the commitment of travel and vacation time needed to fish the trail. If you do not finish in the top 5 for an event you are probably losing money on that event, when you take into account gas, lodging, meals, and misc expenses, unless on your home water. It is a great time fishing the trail, and meet some great people, but I also look at it like business too. Do good business keep sticking money into bad investments? The PMTT is aware of these issues and stated that they are trying to address them and it will be curoius to see what other changes will be coming out for 2005. The big issues is we want Walleye and Bass payout for sport that does not have their fan following and marketing $$$$$$$ of Walleye/Bass. $250,000 for tourny.
Good fishing
Troyz |
|
| |
|
Posts: 5230
| It may be a tough time of year but I am glad the PMTT is going to the flowage and Pomme 2 nice new changes.0723 bill ramsey |
|
| |
|
| Help me out here? The PMTT doesn't pay out enough. But it costs to much to fish. People want the PMTT to pay out like bass and walleye tourneys. They charge huge entries, as much as $2,500 a man, not team, maybe even more for like the FLW. If $450 per team is too much for most people, how can they expect more money if they won't pay higher entries? It is obvious $2,500 is too much, even for a team, because the Simply Fishing tournament was announced and two years in the planning and they only had 79 teams.
Not trying to rip on anyone or start anything, these are just the same statements I read all the time on the sites. How do you get higher payouts? I cannot believe the answer is sponsors, because it can't be that easy. If it was, I am sure the Pmtt sponsor list would be a mile long because then wouldn't they be making more money also.
When you play the lotto, if you don't win or at least get the second prize, the next place down usually doesn't even cover the cost of a ticket. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 155
Location: Watertown MN | JimK
I think yes sponsorship is how they will have to grow it, but will it ever reach the level of bass or walleye highly doubt it, much bigger audience. As far as entry fees, talking to guy who fish the walleye trail, fee is about 1500 an event, placee top 50 and the get their entry fee back. Maybe top prize needs to come down a little get 10th place to a 1500 payout? At chatauqua PMTT talked stated that they had hired someone to help grow the trail and payout, and it will be interesting to see what changes are coming.
Lets fish
Troyz |
|
| |
|
Posts: 69
Location: Just above the thermoclime | When I look at the PMTT, there is really no barrier to entry into the event. If they were to drop entry from $450 (225/person) a team to say 350 (175/person) would it boost registrations enough? It's doubtful. If their research says it will, then lower the costs, blanace the payouts and add an event in July.
These guys should take a clue from the poker guru's and use a satellite format. Leave the main events as open entry. Throughout the season, have regional qualifiers which the top x (1st) places will be used to seed the next PMT event. The would require coordination with MI chapters and others but it would likely boost enrollment & awareness in the PMTT and in those regional events as well. If it's not the top places, then make it a drawing in the regional events. Kinda like PMT did for the Mike James.
Here are some problems from my viewpiont:
1) It's pretty much a midwest musky trail - esp. in 2005.
2) Why isn't Chatauqua a trail event in 2005? It produced the most action, but was not an open event for the trail. The east coast guys are getting the shaft - no home waters, forced to travel the farthest.
3) Why is July an "off" month? Hold a July tourney in northern MN (or if possible Canada). Heck most of the "pros" are up in the area at that time anyway.
4) Fishing time. The fishing time needs to be extended. I understand state regs. restrict this in some cases, but a musky tournament is not a bass tournament and should have some variations to address the difference.
5) Start giving back to the waters fished in a much more visible fashion. Earmark xx% of entry fees to be used for stocking yearling fish. 10%? Some how try to make that tax deductible for PMTT so they don't get smacked with taxes on it.
ok... I'm done ranting (for now)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 172
| Muskiehead
If the PMTT draws an average of 120 teams per event that is $54,000 @ $450 and if they lower it to $350 and draw a full field of 150, that would only be $52,500. Wouldn't work. The problem as I see it and many of the other anglers that I have talk to is you can not commit to the trail, be a top 10 team and earn any money. Only two top 10 teams covered thier expenses.
I think they need to do the reverse. Raise it to $600 per event for a trail team and $800 per event for a non trail team. Balance the payouts. It is too top heavy. To fish the trail it is going to cost you an estimated $4500. It's hard enough to catch a muskie on the trail but to win , even harder. Ask a guy like Crash Mullins. It was the first year he did not catch a fish on the trail. Greg Thomas, whom I think is the best tournament fisherman I know finished 5th overall and could not cover his expenses.
Yea you could call it the lotto but if I am going to spent $4500 why wouldn't I just enter Bob M's tournament and take my chances at a top 15 place. It would cost me less and return me more.
Don't get me wrong. I am 100% behind the PMTT and know Tim is working on this problem. This is a PROFESSIONAL TRAIL. Top teams should be rewarded when they make a commitment to fish the trail and do well.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 69
Location: Just above the thermoclime | Backlash,
I guess i wasn't very clear. I don't think lowering entry fees is the answer. I believe that the payouts need to be leveled and fishing time extended to give the field a more balanced competitive format. To the contrary, if you raise the entry fee to say your proposed $600 you WILL lose some participants and if it goes to $800 for the "local" entry then you will lose even more.
Maybe that's where it's going. Less participants, bigger pool. It would definitely change the nature of the trail and shake out some of the chaf.
The Risk vs. Reward ratio right now is not significant enough to keep the unsuccessful first timers coming back.
I think the "Satellite" sceanio could be applied to the PMT's with more thought.
When you look at numbers:
PMTT (championship excluded because theres no guarantee you'll be in that one)
Expenses $400, Entry $450 x 4 event = 3400. No counting time off from work for some which would range from 4-8 days pay. Total: $3400+
Payout: Max: $80,000
You need to learn 4 different bodies of water and likely fish against a number of people on 2 or 3 of those bodies of water that know it better than you.
Big Bobby Mesh. tourney
Entry: $2500
Expenses: $800 (1 wk stay)
Total: $3300
Payout: 100K
Plus you can focus on a single body of water for the entire season.
I guess I'll be at Vermillion or Mille Lacs next year. Thanks for the help.
I'm rambling... It needs fixing, hopefully they'll do it.
Edited by muskiehead 11/18/2004 1:06 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 172
| Muskiehead
I fish a small local MI tournament that use to charge $100. They doubled it to $200 and did not have much of a drop off. The payout was much greater. This is the PMTT and I think the idea for it is a PRO TRAIL. I would some day like to see it as trail teams only. It is not fair to the teams who make a committment to the trail, only to have a local team who knows the water better come in and take the money. If it's their body of water and if they think they have an advantage, want to fish that one event, they should pay for it. That's what I am talking about when it comes to commitment and expeses. The local does not have them. For now, let them help fund the trail.
I did not fish the whole trail this year (missed the Cave and fish Shelbyville with a different partner) I don't think it was fair that we made the championship but that was the rules. I think trail teams only should go. I know that sounds strange but it goes back to that trail commitment thing. If this is to be our Professional circuit, then it needs to be treated as such and the trail teams need to be rewarded. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 11
Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI | This has been an interesting read. I spent alot of money fishing the PWT/RCL Walleye circuits as a co-angler and even fished the PMTT one year before time became an issue. While the walleye pros did spend time talking about what the circuit owners could do to make things better, they also spent alot of time discussing what they as pros in the sport could do to make it better. It would be nice to see some comments and suggestions along those lines.
It would seem if you want huge payouts the sport needs to be taken to a next level. This next level will be easy to achieve if the anglers take the lead. You need more inovative baits and techniques to make catching muskies easier. This requires fishing in both optimal and non-optimal times. You need to make the musky a fish of less than 100 casts. You need consumers contacting various companies bragging about how great the musky pros. You need to find your own sponsers to help cover your tournament expenses until the payouts grow. These companies need to see the profits that can be made through this new endeavor. We need more live action photo's instead of stills. Large muskies need to become more common since it only takes one to hook an angler for life. Each new hooked angler equals alot of money spent on musky tackle.
Just another opinion. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 719
| I think Troy hit it on the head, distribution of the prize monies is the issue, not entry fees. You simply have to reduce the top prize money and pay a bit farther down and a bit more on the way down. If there are 125 teams and you beat 115 of them you should get more than just your money back. I doubt any one fishing the whole trail really expects to make a living from it but I think the chance to show a profit with consistent finishes is a realistic goal. For what it's worth I Mailed Tim W and Jim S on this issue and they indicated they were working on it.
Bob T |
|
| |
|
| Jesse, from everything I have read, you may have made the most sense. Teams should go out and promote themselves, the PMTT and the entire sport of musky fishing. This would solve the problem with entries and expences and all the winnings would be exactly that, hopefully profit. It would seem like a snowball effect. Lots of people calling sponsors (not the small lure manufactures either), potential sponsors here more about musky fishing and the PMTT. They inturn should sooner or later start to take notice in the PMTT and the sport of musky fishing and it all grows together.
That is what happened in the bass and walleye worlds. If everyone is worried about the expences, maybe they should go out and get their own sponsors to help with the costs. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | I agree that teams that don't fish them all should pay more for the entry. Even to go further and say that any team that makes the championship has to pay at least the total amount as if they fished all four events as a pro team. No team should be in the championship fishing if they have paid less entry. This would stop some of the teams from picking two events and not the entire trail. The pro teams are paying the frieght for them to fish the championship. To me thats not fair.
As far as the schedule they have to put the tournaments where they can get the anglers. The midwest teams are the bulk of them. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Don Pfeiffer |
|
| |
|
| Ya but… I’m considering joining just because there’s an event on my home lake. Part of that attraction/consideration is making it to the finals. Otherwise I’ll just stick to the other tournaments there. Maybe there’s just not enough of us musky anglers around interested in participating a full-fledged tournament trail. There’s just no money in it for anyone, anglers, manufacturers, sponsors, none of them… |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2361
| The promoters are making a buck or two. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 719
| The promoters should be making a buck or two.....or three. Gas, advertising, travel, lodging, judge boats, all cost and there should be some left for those who take the time/risk to provide the events.
I think the issue is really not how much to get in and fish, heck they got 80-90 boats for the big V event for a much higher entry fee so the market supports the entry fee cost. Plus for most teams the entry is NOT the biggest expence... travel eats up more than entry fees so if you simply reduce the fee you reduce the pot and make it even harder to come out with some winning $$$$ worth getting. I simply think people would be more motivated if the prize money was not weighted so much on winning first place. You could legitimatly fish every event, place in the top 8-12 in every event and still spend way more than you win back. As to the "lottery" not paying second place this isn't a lottery its competition and the placings are determined by performance not sheer luck. I would like to fish a number of the events next year but I want to feel like I have a chance to at least pay my way with a steady performance. Sponsorships from interests outside the fishing world are a bit on the horizon for most musky guys......lets face it were not exactlly in the mainstream, like it or not the muskie business just isn't big enough to fully support competitors like the bass and walleye guys yet either.
I don't think the PMTT is just about the money, if it was there would only be about five teams to compete, but I think if a better balence was offered it will have a better chance to grow.
Bob Turgeon |
|
| |
|
Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | I see where they upped the entry $50.00 a team with 100% of that going to payouts. Thats a good start. Now if they could get another 5 grand from sponsors.
With a full field thats $7,500 added to the prize money. if they leave first as is and split that among the next 11 places it would add . rounded off to this number $680.00 to those places. Now if they could find 5 grand more and pay to 15th place it would be rally nice.
Would for sure give more incentive to fish it.
Pfeiff |
|
| |
|
| The end of August is the best time to put numbers of big fish in the boat on the Chip. The PMTT should put some really good numbers of fish up for this one. Corey Meyer runs a one day tourney at that time and it usually takes an upper forty inch fish to win. This year we had four fish in our boat during the one day tourney and 18 in the boat for the week. That is hard to do on any lake. I remember the last time the PMTT was on the Chip though, and it was a tough bite. Hopefully this change in time of year will make the difference. I'll be there for sure. Should be fun!
Ty |
|
| |
PMTT at Chippewa Flowage