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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Just a thought but we have had alot of dicussions about Catch and Release and what we can do to help promote CPR and such. Now if I am NEW to musky fishing and I go to the photo board in a tackle shop and see a picture of a fish with a stringer in his mouth or one in his gill to me that shows I can and should keep these fish. A picture says 1000 words. I know you can keep a legal size fish and more than welcome to, not that I agree with it, but Tackle shops like the one I go to in North Webster should try to help the CPR process. By hanging a picture of a musky with a stringer in its mouth or gill shows a new fisherman that it okay to keep these fish (which if it is legal it is) but how many of these new musky fisherman know what is legal and what isn't. I am not saying keep legal fish but at least this might prevent someone new to the sport from keeping every legal fish they catch. Plus most new to musky fishing won't even bother to ask the tackle shop about what they should do if they catch a fish. They will look at a picture and think wow I need a bigger stringer. What do you guys and gals think about this idea......I know people are pumped about there great catch but I would have a policy that if the fish has a stringer on it in the picture you can not put up the picture even if it is a legal fish (musky and maybe any fish not sure on that one)
pgaschulz.........aka SS bob
P.S. Saluki basketball is only 10 days away GO DAWGS GO!!!!!! |
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Location: oswego, il | Those pics could always come up missing......
You a saluki? I graduated in 85 one year before they stocked skis in kinkaid. My typical luck. |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | You bet I am.......play golf for them GO DAWGS GO!!! |
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Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Bob,
Believe me I have spoke with Ye Old several times about their "Wall of Death" and they are in a very tight place. If they only hang up released fish, they will run into 2 problems.
1. People will lie about their "release" just to get their picture up
2. They will lose business from locals that love to, "eat them muskies."
I agree it needs to be done, but they simply can't do it. I would personally like to see a large catch and realease poster there, instead of the Wall of Death. Remember alot of people don't care about muskies that live in and around Webster.
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| we discussed this very issue at the Muskies Inc meeting in madison on monday night.
a proposal was put forth to try and get different MI chapters to cooperate and raise funds in order to make up signs encouraging catch and release, showing pictures of proper holds and how to release, and also encouraging the use of quick-strike rigs instead of single hook rigs. nice full-color signs are expensive, but if you have a picture of a big muskie it WILL get people's attention so they'll read the sign.
the idea was that these signs would be distributed to bait shops, perhaps even displayed near the sucker tanks in the fall to try to get the quick-strike rig message across to the meat fishers.
i like this approach because it emphasizes the positive instead of attacking the negative.
Edited by lambeau 11/10/2004 8:14 AM
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Posts: 1086
| I'll be strong and I'll be a man and I'll come out of the woodwork and take the blame for that one: guilty as charged. 
I've learned my lesson ten times over now. I apologize. It'll never happen again, I vow to you all.
I agree with everything said here, I see the stance and opinions, I agree with the tight position that the Ye Olde Tackle Box is in with their wall of death/shame/fame and I agree with Mike that a big poster in there promoting CPR, what it stands for and maybe even a line under the title that states the Indiana legal limit size of the fish could and would help.
I've taken a beating on this. I'm going to let you all know, I'm sorry, I'm going to be a stronger and a better man for it from this point forward.
I'm not new to the sport by any means, I've been fishing for these fish for 22 years, I know all about and support catch and release, I was taken by the moment of a trophy and I went with it.
I didn't need to come out and say this, I know...but I'm not wanting to hide from my guilt and shame. I'm trying to make ammends and to move forward in an adult fashion.
No harmful feelings. I look forward to further education and would love a chance to meet you all (that are local) and maybe even wet a line with you guys one day.
Take care. |
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Posts: 146
Location: Wayzata, MN | Maybe those of us that release fish need to start posting our pic's in the local bait shops, etc... with a 'RELEASED' written on them.
The local shop still gets to post 'big fish' pic's as 'proof' of fish quality in the area lakes... and better yet... they are still out there! |
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Posts: 4266
| I do it everyyear.
I take pictures and put them in bait shops and resorts and add a note that I released that fish so that you or your kid can catch it....you should do the same. I've never been told that I can't put it up there.
Beav |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | If you really want to promote CPR, dont count on the Bait Shops to do it, they dont care one way or the other...$$$$ is thier bottom line. Northern Highlands Tackle in Boulder Junction actually had a sign up sheet for Anti 50" lovers.
If there's one group of people who I'd love to see promote CPR it would have to be Taxidermists. When they ask $3.00-4.00 per inch more for reproductions than skin mounts, it's hard not to keep a trophy. For a 50" fish you could save upwards of $200.00. Maybe that's not a big deal for us die-hards, but it is to a weekend warrior. |
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| Gander Mt Guide - 11/10/2004 9:42 AM
If you really want to promote CPR, dont count on the Bait Shops to do it, they dont care one way or the other...$$$$ is thier bottom line. Northern Highlands Tackle in Boulder Junction actually had a sign up sheet for Anti 50" lovers.
If there's one group of people who I'd love to see promote CPR it would have to be Taxidermists. When they ask $3.00-4.00 per inch more for reproductions than skin mounts, it's hard not to keep a trophy. For a 50" fish you could save upwards of $200.00. Maybe that's not a big deal for us die-hards, but it is to a weekend warrior.
I agree with the above said. And I have always been very confused about the whole taxidermy thing and it's one of the big questions I've been asking through my "ugly ordeal." Even after 22 years of catching and fishing for Pike and Musky, I have never caught one as big as I have this past summer. So I was awestrucken with excitement. And I knew that fiberglass reproductions are far more expensive than skin mounts. I agree that the taxidermists could be a HUGE line of defense in the promotion of CPR...if they'd charge less for the repos, it'd encourage people like me, who'd maybe like to have a constant reminder of their battle and excitement that day. It'd get people away from taking a fish out of the water for the skin mounts. This doesn't give me an excuse, I'm not saying it does, but it sure would have helped if I had known I could take great photos, measurements and weight, I could have the fish done up for me and STILL be able to catch him/her again one day.
I will forever be confused on this matter. It only seems like common sense to me to have the reproductions be less than a skin mount. |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | i dont buy into the cost war with skin vs. repo. basically we as musky fishermen spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to enjoy a catch and release sport, whats a few more hundred really gonna matter when getting a repo done. especailly when most taxidermists will take up to year to get your fish done and most are more than happy to let you send them a check for partial payment monthly or however you want to do it. basiclly what im saying is for the amount we invest in rods, reels, lures, boats,clubs, booze, women, etc. etc. etc. it doesnt make sense to be cheap when it comes to the mount. i never got that one! |
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Posts: 41
| At least Lax Taxidermy charges THE SAME whether its a repo or skin mount. Good to know for the future.
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Location: lansing, il | that is good to know hopefully the others will follow suit!!!! it would definetly help get rid of another excuse to kill a keeper. |
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| MACK,
go easy on yourself, bud.
you caught a trophy and made a decision that you now wish you'd made differently.
that's ok - but don't let it spoil the enjoyment when you look at your fish on the wall!
for the next one, it sounds like you'll do it differently. that's good too.
-m |
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Posts: 620
Location: Seymour, WI | I think another part to this promotion would be resorts. Alot of the resorts in N. WI seem to promote catch and release until someone catches a fish over 45", but then it seems like lots of these bigger fish are kept. Lots of them are kept in the resort freezers until they can be picked up by the local taxidermist. If you have several resorts on a lake that adds up to lots of big fish kept over a fishing season.
Grass, |
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Posts: 1086
| lambeau - 11/10/2004 10:54 AM
MACK,
go easy on yourself, bud.
you caught a trophy and made a decision that you now wish you'd made differently.
that's ok - but don't let it spoil the enjoyment when you look at your fish on the wall!
for the next one, it sounds like you'll do it differently. that's good too.
-m
Thanks for the kind words lambeau. That means a lot to me.
Yeah...it's been a rough month. I've gotten my a$$ kicked all over cyber space. I'm starting to ease up on myself and am coming to terms with things. Yeah...you better bet your butt I'll be thinking differently next time.
Good lessons are often HARD learned. This being case in point. And I'm sure there'll be many others that'll learn that lesson and benefit from it on my behalf. :D That's cool too.
I think the mental bruises are starting to fade and clear up! :D |
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Posts: 1086
| I know there's tough politics and a lot of tourism and money issues behind legal limit catch sizes...but...raising the legal limits could really be a beneficial factor in this.
I know a lot of place won't allow that due to tourism and the loss of money that tourism brings in. I'm sure there's a lot more to it than just that...but I know that's a factor.
I can't stand the fact that the Indiana size limit is only 36". |
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Posts: 667
Location: Roscoe IL | This was a concern when we were in Tomahawk Wisconsin this year, a bait shop had a freezer in front of the store that had a 49"er in it. We also noticed the "Braggin Board" had a few other fish that were kept, the following day we boated 3 all 45"ers and made sure to post on the boards that they were RELEASED!!
The following day I stuck a 50"x 25-1/2" and also posted it with a big RELEASE on the board, the price to have a replica is way too expensive for me anyway but I have pictures! Somday when the kid's are out of Daycare and I have some extra cash, that's when I will have a replica made. At this point I believe it's more important to think about the future and hopefully my son's will have a shot at those fish.
Catch & Release is the future |
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Posts: 305
Location: Illinois | We are a funny bunch as musky hunters. When a big fish is caught and released, many question the size of the fish and don't put any credence in the fact it was released. Often a newbie comes on a board, usually not this one, and says I caught and released a 40 something or 50 something fish. He or she posts the pic and the fish appears much smaller. The responses from our breathren are usually inflammatory and metion little encouragement for releasing the fish. I think we have to be more complimentary for releasing and less sensitive about size claims.Releasing fish is a given for most on this board and I think that is great. The problem is that because it is second nature, when someone catches and releases a fish, it gets less attention than the fish that get thumped. Many of us don't need the pat on the back but the newbies could sure use one instead of a crabby kick to the groin. That is my feel good thought for the day. hj
I always wondered why the crows kept calling me, said Caw |
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Posts: 30
Location: England | MACK - 11/10/2004 8:16 AM
I agree with Mike that a big poster in there promoting CPR, what it stands for .
This definately worked for the Pike anglers club of Great Britain. PAC have been running an ongoing education education campaign for over twenty five years & nowadays 95% of Pike of all sizes are released alive in the UK. Posters, eduction through general angling magazines & becoming active amongst local angling clubs all helped. The best education was done on the water by organising 'Fish ins' where experienced Pike anglers showed the less experienced, (young & old) how to catch Pike & most importantly how to take the hooks out, handle them out of the water and release them. There are currently over 60 branches of PAC throughout GB, actively getting the message across.
Only faliure has been the west of Ireland where they are destroying the best Pike fisherires in Europe.  We're still fighting though...
Good Luck |
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| I'll drop into Ye Old this weekend and try to drum up support for released to fight again versus wall of death!  |
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | Gotta agree with HJ, isn't part ofour pursuit of these fish about the pleasureof the fight anyway? Aren't we (well me anyway) always hoping to beat personal bests (like in golf). Sure in a tournament, the biggest fish wins, but don't we all win when the fish are released.
In my local lake muskies are caught frequently by walleye guys who are ill prepared to deal with them. As a result many are seen dead each year floating on the lake. I know because I live ON the lake and see them first hand. The local tackle shop banter is usually about walleye and the comments on muskie are usually about how they eat the walleye so kill 'em when you catch one.
If somebody creates a decent CRP poster, maybe they could let us all know so bait shops everywhere could post it! |
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Posts: 18
| Not all bait shops are into the wall of death. At Smokey's they have a release board only, they do hang photos and 98% of the ones I see are released shots.
The shop also has a promotion with release pins in brass for 45", silver for 48" and GOLD w/ A DIMOND for 50". It's only on pewaukee lake and has to be a wittnessed release w/ photo to claim. To me thats going an extra step to promote CPR.
P.S. I know they pay $200 for the gold GIVE AWAY even if you don't spend a dime in the shop. |
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| mskyadk - 11/11/2004 8:56 AM
The shop also has a promotion with release pins in brass for 45", silver for 48" and GOLD w/ A DIMOND for 50". It's only on pewaukee lake and has to be a wittnessed release w/ photo to claim. To me thats going an extra step to promote CPR.
P.S. I know they pay $200 for the gold GIVE AWAY even if you don't spend a dime in the shop.
THAT is very cool! That's a shop going out of the way and putting up their own money to support CPR. That'd be a nice thing to see spread around the U.S. to other tackle shops for sure. |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I have to admit, Smokey's is probally the best on-the-water bait/tackle shop that I've ever seen support CPR. Alot of the credit has to go to the area guides too. Most, if not all of them, that work out of Smoky's fish tournys as well as guide and they all preach CPR.
Hard Core musky orientated shops like Smokey's, Rollies and Guide's Choice are exceptions, I wish there was more enthusiasm on CPR from more northern Wisconsin all-tackle and bait shops.
Too bad Smoky's doesn't have a shop in Boulder Junction.
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 11/11/2004 10:54 AM
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Mack I do not know what your are talking about, I like some of the idea's that you have posted. I am going to make a comment to Ye Old also next week when I am up there fishing. The more you talk the more they might listen. Remeber there are alot of more of us fishing for musky that belive in CPR than those that don't and I have to belive that musky fishing is a big business for them.
Just at Thought,
Bob
P.S. 9 Days to Saluki Basketball GO DAWGS GO!!! |
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Posts: 75
Location: ft wayne, IN | Maybe if us release guys make it a point to ye olde that our group will boycott ye olde and head down the road to one stop if they don't remove the "kept" pics and instead put them in a book they'd get the point real fast. Money is their master. Only we can change that with them. I'd be happy to let them know if this gets some support. Action gets the job done guys!
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| For those heading to northern Wisconsin, I do know that a shop (Nelson's Bait n Tackle) in Rhinelander has an poster just inside their door and it is FULL!! All released musky and a few large pike and if I remember correctly, all but a few of the fish were from the Rhinelander area. One was a big fish from LOTW that a guy put up there and a couple others were from another area in Canada. Stopping in there and talking to the lady, they promote catch and release of musky. She said that her husband kept a very large one back in the early 90's, but has released everything since. In looking at the release board, a guy had a bunch up there and come to find out in talking to her, it was her husband. She said that he is looking for a big one to have a painting done of by Rod Umlauff. They also have pictures of released fish and I even checked out their website and they had pics of released fish there. Sounds like they have some good fall release pics coming to that site from reading their fishing reports. I know that I will keep checking back with them. |
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Posts: 663
| This topic is very important to me. First I'd like to mention that I work at a tackle shop in the heart of "musky country", Guide's Choice Pro Shop. I mention this as a means of identification rather than promotion. I would also like to give credit to those shops already mentioned ie: Rollie & Helen's, Smokey's, Nelson's Choice (that's Chuck with those fish and he's been HOT lately), among others who are proactive in supporting catch and release. I know all of these folks and can tell you how much all of them try to promote C&R. I'd like to take a moment to present a picture of what we all do and how the relationship between the retailer and customer benefits the whole musky community. All of these shops work very hard at providing you with the newest and most innovative products we can find. We also act as a source for information and education when possible not only for musky fishermen but for the casual or tourist fishermen. I can assure you that the establishments mentioned do more to promote C&R than you can possibly imagine. As an example, this past summer we held free weekly fishing seminars. As a part of each weeks talk the speaker spent time explaining and demonstrating proper handling and release techniques using a "rubber" mock up of a musky that was produced for us by Rick Lax of Lax Taxidermy. I'm sure these talks and demos helped to save a number of fish this summer. We are also in a unique position to educate people who stop in our shop and observe our large aquarium that houses several muskies. The muskies in that tank have no doubt helped save a lot of their brothers and sisters because we get to talk to people and show them one on one the beauty of the musky and the fragile role it plays in the ecology of our ecosystems. We are able to dispel many myths and alleviate fears people have about handling muskies. While the other shops may not have this ability I know they do their part to do the same thing. I would also like to point out that several shops mentioned further help the community by supporting and attending the various musky and other sport shows held around the country. Sure we want to sell stuff but imagine what revenue is generated when Rollies or Guide's Choice purchases 50 or 60 feet of space at a show. It is the exhibitors who are paying for your ability to come to a show to check out new gear, listen to speakers, etc.
I'm not a negative guy so I won't mention other stores but here's what it boils down to. If this is to be a win/win situation people need to support those businesses that support you. It frustrates the heck out of us when we spend lots of time educating people on what gear to buy or what baits are hot and how to use them and then find out later that "I bought it from the catalog company or the mega-store because it was a couple bucks less". This is not a new concept and has been a constant complaint of independent retailers in most other industries too. Heck when is the last time you went to your local neighborhood corner drugstore for a prescription because the pharmacist knew you, your family and for that matter your doctor? Frankly they are almost non-existent. Please help us to continue trying to do what we do best and that is to be the "experts" that can help you have a more enjoyable and productive fishing experience. We do it because we love the sport not because there are huge profits in being a tackle retailer.
The fishing shops that you are complaining about need to know that 1) you care about the future of the fishery and 2) that there is a BENEFIT for them to support catch and release in the form of increased revenue. Businesses seldom respond to boycotts. Just like you or me when you get threatened you become defensive and harden your position. Let them know that you would do more business but feel strongly that you can't support a store that acts in oppositon to your concern for the fishery. Unfortuately some of them are going to say nice things to you and then "blow you off" when you leave the store because they really don't believe in catch and release but as they say "nothing changes if nothing changes".
In the meantime I'm sure Jim at Rollies, John at Smokey's. Rick at Guide's Choice, and Chuck at Nelson's will go on promoting and supporting your sport because that's what they believe in too. I hope you will consider this when you are making decisions on where and how you make your purchasing decisions.
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Location: Monee, Illinois | Well said |
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Location: ft wayne, IN | Great news! I spoke with Steve @ YE OLDE tackle here in Webster who is one of the co-owners--spent good part of an hour today chit chatting w/ him. He has agreed to remove the non catch & release photos from the wall of death and place them in a book of death--old pics, etc. He requests that we supply him with a small poster of catch n release instuctions. Could anyone point me in the right direction in finding/making such a poster? Once in place he has agreed to promote CPR and correct hold techniques, etc. I have agreed to help educate the owners in this regard. I will make copies of pertinent recent articles, etc for the store. Once the owners are educated then perhaps they can educate the rookie fishermen in that regard as well. It would be immensly helpful for everyone who enters their store to support this philosophy and promote the same in a kind way. Being primarily bass fisherman, the owners felt this philosophy would go over well with the serious bass guys too. Many of us have been working on this for a long time with the store owners and I'm very pleased to finally see them cooperate for the betterment of their fishery and therefore themselves and their business. Oh, and then I hit the lake and had a near 50 follow up right off the bat, popped a 46.5 on a sucker, 40 (10th fig 8 at boatside after dark in the shadows), and a 35 while pulling in my sucker lines 15 mins later--all within 3 hours! CPR_CPR_CPR (or maybe just C & R keeping the fish in the water the entire time like I did today!!!!
JK |
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Location: Chicago, Beverly | Was in there saturday night right before closing, not a single "death type pic" to be seen... all pics appeared to be in boats... |
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| As I said I would drop into Ye Old Tackle Shop and discuss the wall of death with them. He told me almost all fish pictured were caught and released, and he mentioned in years past certainly the locals kept and killed most fish. However, today a very small percentage of locals still kill fish. Same story in WI, still a long way to go but look how far things have come in terms of change! 
Very happy Ye Old had some lures I was looking for as well, and I couldn't believe the size of some of the sucker they had (huge and more appropriate for Canadian waters than Indiana waters) |
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Location: Monee, Illinois | Great Job!! |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | As Pete and Esox Dude said, my wife Kristy at Nelson's Choice Bait & Tackle in Rhinelander (it is actually her shop, just my last name) is right there with Smokey's, Rollie and Helens, Guides Choice and others when it comes to catch and release. Yes, I have kept a 38 1/2 pounder back in 1990, but that has been it. I am looking for a big 50"+ to have a painting done of; the big one I kept was 49 1/2" long, oh so close to 50".
Kristy is in the process of having a poster done up with the stores name on it for released fish. All photos on the web site, with the exception of the Lake Michigan trip, have photos of released fish. If she has an idea that someone is newer to musky fishing, she tries talks to them about catch and release. She does it in a way to not offend people, but yet stress the importance of it. One thing to remember about dealing with bait shops, never overlook or assume that the people there do not know what they are talking about; particularly women. If you get a chance to talk with Patricia Strutz at Guides Choice or Kristy at Nelson's, you will see what I am talking about.
I am blessed to work for a company where I am able to travel Wisconsin and visit many tackle shops, including Guides Choice and Rollie and Helens; among many, many others. It is always interesting to get others perspective on different topics, but most are of the same mindset and thoughts. If a shop has ideas and beliefs that are different from yours or the majority, my suggestion is to not go in and just blast them. Present your position in a positive way and tell them how it can benefit them. The biggest way to turn someone off and have them totally against you is to buck them hard and tear into them. What do they say, kill them with kindness? It will go a long way and solidify your relationship with them.
Chuck |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Pete Stoltman and Chuck,
Well said, sirs. |
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Tackle Shops and Catch and Release