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Posts: 222
Location: Hartland, WI | I was wondering if while you are casting, can you have a sucker trailing the boat while you are running your trolling motor??? I know that any presentation being created by the movement of your boat with the use of a motor is illegal(I think) according to the wisconsin fishing regulations...(this does not pertain to lakes where trolling is legal).
Is this legal, I have not doen much fishing with suckers, but as fall is approaching, and since I do a majority of my fishing solo, i was jsut wondering if you guys new anything about this. Any input or thoughts would be great. Thanks. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | In Vilas Co, you cannot advance your position while using your main motor or trolling motor while having any bait remain in the water....live or dead bait included.
You can cast with a motor on, but trailing a sucker while you do it is a No No.
Some people say its a "S%#ttY law, but until they change it....it's the law.
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 9/23/2004 2:50 PM
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Posts: 188
Location: Chicago | GMG,
Can you soak a sucker and move around casting in Sawyer county?
Thanks
Rob |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | beats me..never fish sawyer co. If you go to the DNR's web page, you can find what lakes in what co.'s are trollable. Waukesha Co. is the only one I know of that allows it on any lake. |
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Posts: 222
Location: Hartland, WI | That is good to know, I was thinking about it the other night while fishing on the chain. I always see guys doing this, and it always puzzled me because I thought it had to be illegal. Anyway, thank you for the insight. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | MM1...you can use your motors to maintain your position....albeit over structure or weeds or etc. Keeping a vertical line is vital. |
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Posts: 305
Location: Illinois | Yes Rob, you can have suckers out in Sawyer county and use your trolling motor on lakes where trolling is legal. Check your lake specific regs for trolling and you'll find that most lakes in that region permit trolling. Don't ever question my word, or bloody chlickets will be flying off my boat.  |
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| The Sawyer County lakes that trolling is permissable are Grindstone,LCO, Whitefish. Although many people do it on other lakes even though they know it is not allowed. If it were ever opened up at the Big Chip it would be an absolute slaughter!
FYGR8 |
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Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | I asked the wardens up in vilas and they told me flat out, you run the trolling motor with a sucker in the water, it's a ticket. Down in kenosha county they won't bother you on the issue.
We could argue legalities all day long so it's good to know what is considered legal and where. |
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| ToddM is right. If one warden reads it one way and another will read the other way - the rule is not real black & white.
A few yrs ago the Wis MI Chapters tried to get the rule to read more clearly, but it would have never passed the Conservation Congress Hearings because too many think that they can run a sucker while moving with the trolling motor as long as the line is vertical. And they don't want that taken away - even thou it not allowed now. Some even think as long as they are dragiing a bobber, that is running a "vertical' line - go figure. |
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| Come on now - you know if your trolling or soaking and so does the warden. Keep the sucker straight down several feet below the boat with a large enough weight to keep it vertical and throw you gliders and jerks.
Followers can't resist the presentation and being "on top" helps hook sets tremendously.
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| Although I could do that on lakes where it is legal to troll like LCO and Grindstone, I just drift and cast when the sucker is out. Following fish often hit the sucker, and it has been that way my entire life, now more than ever!
Steve |
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Posts: 544
Location: Alsip, Il | A very gray area. I have a letter from the DNR stating that you can use your trolling motor with a sucker out if you are controlling your drift, working a specific piece of structure, and don't have the motor constantly on. When I fish Wisconsin, I keep a copy with me in my boat, just in case I get stopped. Al |
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Posts: 5874
| Beat this to death last year, and I agree with Alan. I'll continue to do it the proper way, within the guidelines established in the regs. No bobber, keep the line vertical, and only use the TM to stay on the structure. That said, it will still depend upon which Warden you make contact with. |
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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | Shep Is right . You will get various interpretations depending on which warden you talk to; However the only tickets that I have seen written happened to boats using bobbers and obviously traveling down a shoreline. I have not been bothered when Having the line vertical and holding on a specific piece of structure. |
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Posts: 91
Location: Wausau | What if my wife is in the back of the boat watching the bobber the sucker is under? If someone is in the back of the boat tending the pole can I cast in the front and run my trolling motor or does it still have to be vertical? |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | Just have her look like she is reeling.  I think that would fall under the same guidelines. If you fish in the WI Rapids area, check the lake regs, cause they may allow trolling, in which case it would be fine regardless of weather or not she is tending the rod. |
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| bchunter26, it doesn't matter if it is a primary line or secondary one. You can't do it, peroid (on lakes that don't allow trolling). So, your wife can't run a sucker with a bobber if you are using the trolling motor. |
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Posts: 1046
| You can troll, drag, cast,drift and whatever a sucker in central wisconsin on waters connected to the Wi. River, but in Vilas co. I would be very careful as everyone is watching in the fall! |
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Posts: 7
| I didn't know it was legal to use two lines in WI (original question).
Certainly in Canada, you're allowed only one line per angler. |
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| In WI you are allowed three line per angler. |
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| Handyman, naw they never watch us!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL |
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Posts: 663
| I was fishing on the Eagle River chain today and guess I saw between 12-15 boats dragging suckers on bobbers way behind their boats. If the DNR wanted some quick dough they could have cleaned up out there. Even the wardens I have talked with agree that interpretation and enforcememt of this regulation is a nightmare. |
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Posts: 149
| Dragging a sucker on a bobber behind the boat is perfectly legal. It's when you use the trolling motor at the same time that it becomes illegal. Did you tell those boats they were fishing illegally? Did you call the 1-800-TIP-WDNR hotline to report the illegal activity?
Everyone claims the rule is a 'gray area' but in reality it couldn't be any clearer. Bottom line is that to be legal while casting AND having sucker(s) out, the trolling motor may not be used to propel the boat AT ALL. When the trolling motor is engaged, ALL lures / baits that are in the water must be either:
1.) Being cast and continuously reeled or worked back to the boat at all times. OR
2.) The line must be COMPLETELY vertical the entire length from the rod tip into the water regardless of whether a bobber is used or not.
Doesn't get any clearer than that. If you engage the trolling motor and there is any slack between the rod tip and the bobber (meaning the line isn't completely vertical the entire length from the rod tip to the water) you are motor trolling which is illegal.
There are dozens of musky lakes which allow motor trolling in Wisconsin. On any of those lakes you may cast and drag 2 suckers on bobbers all you want while your trolling motor is running because trolling is allowed and perfectly legal and Wisconsin allows 3 rods per angler. Simply look at your regs booklet. Every single lake that allows motor trolling is listed in the county by county "special regs" section.
On the lakes that DON'T allow motor trolling, you must drift to be able to have the sucker rods with bobbers out behind the boat and must reel them completely in when using the regular or trolling motor to move your position and start a new drift.
Edited by esoxcpr 9/25/2004 10:31 PM
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| SUCKERS ON THE MOVE
This comes from the WDNR-
"Position fishing is a style of fishing where anglers may maneuver their boat, by a motor, in such a way that allows them to vertically jig lures or still fish with live bait. Boat movements are generally not continuous in a relatively consistent direction, rather the motor is used to maintain the position of the boat over a location or bottom structure.
EXAMPLES - Under this definition, You MAY do any of the following:
1) Use your motor to slowly move around specific structure, fishing with bottom bouncers fished in a vertical or near-vertical presentation;
2) Use your motor to move around specific structure, vertically jigging for fish;
3) Re-position your boat while still fishing with a bobber;
4) Move or reposition your boat to maintain your position around a specific location.
Occasional deviation from a completely vertical presentation of the fishing lines is expected and allowed.
Under this definition, you MAY NOT do any of the following:
1) Play out and trail lines from the boat while moving across the lake in a consistent, uninterrupted manner;
2) Use downriggers or planer boards to trail live bait or artificial lures while operating a motor; or
3) Trail a minnow behind the boat while casting an artificial lure with uninterrupted use of a motor;
The key in interpreting this rule is a consistent application and understanding of "uninteruppted", which is, of course, difficult!. In my expereince, while moving along a weedline, rock bar, point, etc., casting an artificial lure for muskies, the motor is only used to slowly move along the area being fished and it is also helpful for maintaining a desired distance away from the area you are fishing. However, while you may legally cast and retrieve with uninteruptted use of the motor, in my experience, that usually means using an electric motor in bursts for less than about 30 seconds at a time.
My interpretation would be that you may trail a sucker on a second rod while casting and moving along the shoreline, etc., as long as you only occassionally reposition the boat and move slowly along the area being fished, with "short" bursts of an electric motor. Constant, uninterupted use of the motor (for example, to move to or approach another fishing area with more than about 1 minute of uninterupted motor use) would require that the sucker be removed from the water before proceeding. A general rule of thumb would be that your motor should be off for more time than it is on while the sucker is in the water. Conversely, if your motor is running more often than not while that sucker is in the water, you should pull the sucker in!
Sincerely,
Monique Currie
Wisconsin DNR"
I got this last year in the fall, and it is only ONE warden's interpretation, but it IS a glimpse into a warden's mindset on the subject.
Wade |
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Posts: 5874
| WHERE in the regs does it state exactly this?
1.) Being cast and continuously reeled or worked back to the boat at all times. OR
2.) The line must be COMPLETELY vertical the entire length from the rod tip into the water regardless of whether a bobber is used or not.
But this is directly from the regs.
“Position fishing” is fishing from a boat where the fishing line
extends vertically into the water while the boat is maneuvered (forwards or backwards)
by a motor used to position the boat over underwater structure. Position fishing is
allowed statewide in all waters.
As I said to MF'er last year. I will not let anybody here that is not a Conservation Warden tell me how I fish is illegal. Quit trying to make up things that are not true. As the regs are stated, it is called position fishing. Nowhere does it state how small, or large, or what composition a piece of structure has to be. I'll do it, and if the Warden I contact has a problem with it, I'll go to court, and I will win.
Just read what the previous post says. This is just one Warden's interpretation. Ask 10, from different parts of the state, and you'll get 10 different interpretations.
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Posts: 194
Location: Lincolnshire, IL | Hey Wade 1, any way you can scan your letter and make it available in a word or .pdf file so all of us can keep a copy with us in our boat, that would be awesome! Since you've already done the work no need for the rest of us to acquire a letter.... |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Seems like the same people who think it's a dumb or "gray" rule are the same ones who troll and are looking for ways around the regs.
Instead of trying to find ways around it, obide by it. I't pretty simple really.....Do not pull a sucker around with a trolling motor while casting and you wont have any problems with ANY warden up in Vilas Co. Instead of saying, "well each warden is different in his interpretation", Dont use a sucker with a trolling motor. If you dont like the regs in Vilas Co, dont go there!!! Pretty simple stuff really.
Position fishing and attempting to stay on structure is allowed. Working shorelines while dragging meat can get you a ticket....that's been proven. And why people still do it is beyond me.
You know #*^@ well when you're speeding, you know #*^@ well when you're trolling. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The law is NOT clear, and the DNR knows it. The interpretation in wade's email is what I get from the wardens too. Small adjustments to control a drift along a piece of structure is OK, but turning the boat nose to the edge and pulling along in a constant fashion is trolling.
In my humble opinion, the law IS strange. It's inconsistent across the state; legal in some places, not in others. Again, in my opinion the ruling has little to do with a management issues and is not based in science; to the contrary it's based on the desire and will of the anglers here in the North. Tradition. Our method of changing regulations here with the Conservation Congress and the fact our Legislature can and sometime does overrule the DNR sets us up for decisions based on emotion instead of sound management practices. Look at the 50" limit proposal a couple Springs ago.
None the less, it IS the law, confusing as it is.  |
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Posts: 5874
| GMG,
Just so I get the intent of your opinion. What you are saying is that if you want to sucker fish in Vilas County, you may not have your trolling motor down? At all. Nadda, Zip, zilch.
And just so you understand my stance. If you have a sucker in the water, AND you are fishing structure, you may use the trolling motor to adjust your position, either forward or back, on that structure. Your line must be vertical as it enters the water. No grey area in the reg as I see it, although I do agree with Steve, and many others. It is a stupid rule, poorly written, open to inconsistent interpretation by wardens, and needs to be eliminated.
I see more creative interpretation of this reg by those who think anytime you have a sucker down and the TM down you are breaking the law, than those who think it is OK. I also think that TIPing somebody on this is probably a little overboard. Outright trolling, yes. This, no. I reserve the TIP line use for blatant violations, ie. poaching, overharvest, too many lines, unsafe operation, etc. The wardens have plenty of these major violators to bust. I won't waste their time on the small stuff. |
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Posts: 222
Location: Hartland, WI | WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did not know this thread would get so much play, it is a judgement call in my opinion. You know what you are doing, I jsut would not suggest moving around a huge amount of water. Fishing a certain structure seems like your best bet. Tuff topic, and very interesting feedback. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | From what I hear from the Warden up by us in Land O Lakes...They'd like to see laws changed so that a trolling motor cannot be down while working live bait. Would make enforcement alot easier on wardens.
When we talked to the warden a few weekends ago, his reply "if you dont want trouble, dont look for it. If you're moving along, under power by the use of a trolling motor and are advancing your position, I'll give out a cite"
Pretty basic to me Shep. I've said this from day one, if you're attemtping to maintain your position, wardens can see that. If you're working your way around a rice island and are advancing position....they can see that too.
I dont move my boat with my main or troller while I have bait in the water...I have'nt had a problem in 20+ years of sucker fishing Vilas Co. Dwayne Harpster was the old warden in Vilas Co, he gave me a cite for not having cushions that were "Poofy Enough", this guy went out of his way to be a knob. His big thing was to watch boats from shorelines with binoculars and hand out cites at the landing for guys trolling. If you had your trolling motor down and had bait in the water, he was gonna nail you.
To say NOT to use the TIP line for trollers because you dont like the rules is wrong man...plain and simple. If somebody suspects people of trolling, call the WE Tip and let the warden do his job! Wardens hand out cites Shep, anglers dont.
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 9/28/2004 10:22 AM
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | After reading Shep's version of the rules, I'm currious, how does the DNR define "Structure". Is structure anything that is not a flat bottom of the lake for more than say...6 ft? So does that mean if a warden approaches me position fishing and says I'm trolling that we can get my Aqua Vu out and take a look below. If there is a weed or a bottle, an old garbage bag, a single rock, anything that could be construed as structure that I was position fishing? How big does this "structure" have to be? How close to that "structure" do I have to be?
UGH! Another reason to boycott the little fish in WI. I'm going to fish in IL. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | LC,
The rule interpretation is to be primarily defined by the movement of the boat while 'position fishing'. If the boat moves forward dragging the sucker for any clearly defined amount of time, you're trolling. Position fishing over structure can include open water fishing, as suspended fish relate to open water (structure, in a strict sense of the idea). The idea is this:
DO NOT PULL THE SUCKER ALONG BEHIND THE BOAT!
Let's say I am following an 18' breakline around the lake. It is OK to DRIFT that line with the wind adjusting with short bursts to stay on it. It is NOT OK to move against the wind dragging the sucker behind the boat along the edge. |
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Posts: 5874
| Never said because I don't like the rules, I wouldn't make the call. You see, things are not just black and white for me. Just like I would never call in for a guy doing 60 in 55 zone, I wouldn't TIP a guy for a minor infraction, or even a greay area in the regs. However, if a guy was weaving all over, driving 20 over, and I felt that I or others were in danger, I'd make the call. Just like if I saw a guy with live bait out, and his TM down, I'd ingnore it. However, if I saw a guy keep a 32" fish, and the limit was 34, or if he had 10 eyes, when the limit was 5, I'd make the call.
Which brings up an interesting point. Why is that lots of "sportsman" are so quick to call TIP for any little thing, but wouldn't even think about calling in a speeder doing 20+ over? |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Why not hook up a sucker really good and cast it? I've done it!!!! |
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| Like I said originally, just drift with the suckers out. It works great!
Steve |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | People call the TIP line because that's what it's meant for...CALLING! I dont see a WE TIP for SPEEDERS hot line.... Sportsmen take rules and regs alot more seriously than they do speeding. You could find a simularity between speeding on a lake and speeding on a road, but , to me, there is no comparison between violating a natural recources law and speeding.
I toss Sucker Minnows alot for Musky. You can always cast and jig with your motors on, no problem.....good call Hulbert! |
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Posts: 5874
| MB,
Basically, that is what I do. I work the wind, and use the TM to make small corrections to stay on the structure, whether it's a weed line, rock pile, breakline, etc. It's not rocket science here. The regs are plain enough to me. I'm not claiming to know all, but I do feel confident I am within the spirit, and the letter, of the law. Been doing this for years while eye fishing also, and never had a problem. I guess each will have to decide for themselves what they are going to do, or not do.
GMG, you're wrong about not having a number to call to turn in traffic violators. The number is 911. As to your comment, "there is no comparison between violating a natural recources law and speeding" Last time I checked, nobody got hurt because they had a sucker and the TM down! I can garrantee you, somebody DIED today because of excessive speed.
Oh, by the way, the reels have worked great. Not a big fan of the rods, a little too stiff in the tip for me, but the reels are great. Thanks, again.
Edited by Shep 9/28/2004 1:59 PM
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Those were dipseys rods I think, thought they'd be good for Salmon and Musky, probally crap for walleye.....I hear through the grapvine that the new 80-120.00 Shimano trolling rods (Techoma?) are going on clearance soon. Those are awsome rods, I'll let you know when and if that happens.
Right now we have sales on all the downriggers, the sale lasts through the end of the year almost. |
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| Wis Wade,
You can print it from your browser or copy the text and paste it into word and then print it. But I wouldn't bother since it's simply one warden's opinion and as everyone here has made pretty clear, ask 10 wardens and you'll get 10 different opinions. The law is a huge greyzone and while one warden doesn't mind minor position adjustments another writes a citation for the same thing. I posted M. Currie's response simply for comparison since she states it's HER interpretation. I doubt another warden would care if they read her letter. In fact, they'd probably think you made it up being "internet hearsay". - Chicago Wade |
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Posts: 194
Location: Lincolnshire, IL | Wade, part of my reply about a downloadable file was in jest...If something were on letterhead it may go a bit further but it certainly strengthens the argument, yours and others that this is simply a gray area when others claim that it is not.... :(...And I suggest that you officially change your name to Illinois Wade to avoid any confusion Go Badgers! |
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Soaking a sucker while casting....legal???