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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | I was in a conversation yesterday at my golf club with a man who says it is wrong to take a legal musky out of a lake. The size was a 40 inch. I do not agree with them taking the musky. Then he went on to tell me he can not wait until duck season opens. Now that got me to start thinking, I know a lot of musky fisherman are hunters. Are these same hunters people who dis-agree with taking a legal fish out of a lake. I have only been musky fishing for 2 years and I BELIEVE IN CPR but I also do not hunt, not because I disagree with hunting just I have never gotten into hunting. So I am going to post this poll to see what this site is made up of. If this has been a topic already I do apoligize. Would like your opions (Not arguments) on this subject.
Thanks,
pgaschulz aka SS Bob
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Posts: 28
| I do hunt, almost as passionately as I musky fish. The way I see it is simple. Differant resource. Hunting is necessary in most situations. Population control, etc. Obviously I hunt for the sport, but it is just two completely differant things in my mind. | |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | We eat almost exclusively wild game and fish at the Worrall household, so both hunting and fishing are important to me. We harvest only what we can consume, and enjoy the bounty of Northern Wisconsin immensely. Even with crappies we practice conservation, releasing the larger fish and limiting our catch instead of catching our limit. As with any wild game or bird population, management of the harvest is very important.
Muskies ARE a renewable resource, and some selective harvest won't hurt the population a bit.
Fisheries management folks will tell you they manage many systems counting on a harvest at a particular level, but in my area CPR is pushing 90%, a pretty respectable level.
It's several issues that causes the angst we see here over CPR, including love for the sport, desire to grow true trophy class fish, and the fact the muskie represents a limited resource (in comparison to many of the other sport fish) which will thrive under a conservation ethic. Besides, they taste like poo. | |
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Posts: 28
| They taste like poo..............Steve, you almost made me spit out my breakfast, too funny. | |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | No hunting and no kept fish, pretty simple. | |
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| it's not quite as black and white as that, either.
hunting is not necessarily the same as keeping a muskie. there are a LOT of people who pass up shots at really nice bucks in order to let it grow into a great buck in a year or two. once it is a true trophy, it's harvested. and the lifecycle of deer is incomparable to muskies - a 6 year old / trophy deer is OLD, heck in most places a 3 year old is an exception to the norm. a "trophy" muskie might only have lived 1/2 it's potential life span with lots of years to grow even bigger and thrill other fishermen down the line.
i don't know duck hunting as i don't do it, but it seems like a whole different game. duck hunters are harvesting a sustainable part of a resource that has a much faster renewal cycle than muskies do. it's just sort of apples and oranges.
i think that if hunting pressure suddenly meant there were no/very few hunt-worthy animals left in the woods you might see hunting habits change too. if i owned a nice plot of land and over a couple years i realized i was over-hunting it, you bet i'd stop taking bucks and take more does - let the trophies grow up. | |
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Posts: 7117
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I dont have a problem with killing or eating god's creatures, if thats what anyone is thinking about this topic. I release all my muskies, and kill as many suckers as I can each fall and spring.
I dont hunt, except in Mr. Worrall's freezer whenever I stay at the hideout. Funny, I never miss a shot when I reach in for pound after pound of yummy bambi. Dead deer I dont have a problem with, sitting on my frozen butt in the middle of the woods while I lose feeling in my extremeties.....that I do have a problem with. Dad saw my one and only adventure in ice-fishing, that was enough to tell me if the lakes are frozen, I should be inside. | |
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Posts: 5874
| I hunt, and fish, and practice SELECTIVE harvest. I have not kept a muskie, yet. Maybe never will. However, I reserve the right to harvest a legal fish, should I so desire. I practice selective harvest on walleyes, pike, and panfish. The big females go back. I'll keep a few eaters for a meal or two. Don't keep bass.
I also practice selective harvest on waterfowl. I shoot drakes, but let the Suzies fly by. When it comes to deer, now that my son is hunting, I have changed my approach. I'm now all about taking a trophy buck, and am letting Eric fill the freezer with good does, and whatever buck he can shoot. I never even raised the rifle last year, but he got 2 nice does. His first. | |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | My motto is "Hunting is for Guys who dont know how to Fish". Just because I dont hunt does'nt mean I dont agree with it or think its a bad thing. Selective harvest is needed in order for populations to remain healthy....no matter if it's fishing or hunting, species cannot go unchecked!
I'd rather spend my time chasing fish than Bambi, Donald or Boo Boo...thats just me, I'm not into the"game" taste, but I'm always there to get the handouts of Hot Sticks and Sausage from my hunting buddies!
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Posts: 376
Location: Cudahy, Wisconsin | I agree with you 100% Mr. Worrall. | |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I hunt, and eat everything I harvest. Sometimes I eat what others harvest too. If you have some backstraps your looking to "pawn off" I am your man.
If God didn't want us to hunt, he wouldn't have made all the animals out of meat!!!  | |
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Posts: 476
Location: WI | I'm with Shep on this one. I duck hunt, mostly because I love watching my dog work, and seeing all of my work when she was a puppy pay off. I deer hunt, but do selective harvest, and Trophy management, let the little bucks go by, and harvest does. Haven't kept a musky, and got my first 50"er a couple of weeks ago. Now I'm trying to introduce my beliefs into my "meat" hunter/fisherman father, who does not understand my philosophies. We sit in the deer stand together, and I practically have to take his rifle away from him!! Every deer he sees is a trophy... I still haven't got him his first musky yet, but took him out for Father's Day a few years ago and told him if he catches a musky he'd have to let it go. His response? "What am I out here for then?" I think he was giving me a hard time, but I still won't let him forget it. It is amazing how many nonhunters, nonfisherman that I 've shown my 50" musky to in the past week or so that can't understand why I let it go. This is where our education begins to the general public, and websites like muskiefirst and others will only help reach more people. Just my take on the issue, but take a kid with you the next time you go out, pass the torch along! GotOne | |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | I don't hunt, as I don't have my hunter safety cert yet. (missed the grandfathering by 2 years doohhh!!!!)
I would like to get into duck hunting to see my dog work. (that may take a while)
There are many factors that come into play for hunters and fisherman. Each person does it for their own reasons. Whether it is for food, a trophy, or time with friends or family. I say keep pluggen them, and send me some venison jerky. :)
I would like to hunt, and I think that people that do, have a great respect for the resource. In deer hunting, the pop needs to be controlled, or we will have a bunch of deer running around looking like me. lol
I haven't kept a musky yet, and don't think I would ever, but ya never know.
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Posts: 476
Location: WI | Steve,
It is unfortunate that you have hunted with people that have left you with the unfavorable impression of "millions" of hunters. I would like to let you know that there are "millions" of familes that have installed ethical and traditional values into their children and their children's children on the value of hunting. Visiting the "Deer Camp" each year is something that I look forward to and not to get away from my wife, but to see my relatives, have a beer, tell stories that I've told 10 times, and to shoot a trophy buck if I'm lucky enough to, or harvest a doe for my family. My relatives are potato farmers, and the destruction that an overpopulation of deer does on their economy can be devasting. If someone wants to "giveaway" a deer, hopefully there are one of the thousands of hunters that has donated their deer to a food bank for families in need. I don't take any offense to your statements or beliefs, but just think you were "hanging with the wrong crowd". GotOne
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Posts: 476
Location: WI | tuffy1, if you are looking for a book on training you pup, Try Richard Wolter's "Gun Dog", it is an exceptional book. The only thing I found was that my dog didn't fit into his week to week progress report, but take it in stride. GotOne
Edited by GOTONE 9/17/2004 1:01 PM
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Posts: 476
Location: WI | hmmm, well.......... I guess it didn't go into the removal support group!!!!
Headed to Eagle River for 4 days, going to eat some perch from the freezer, snack on some venison sausage, and release a few muskies..isn't life good!!!  | |
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Posts: 1936
Location: Eau Claire, WI | Ya oughta see me duck hunt... I practice shoot-and-release..  My dog laughs at me most of the time.
I harvest one to two deer a year for food. I keep an occasional pike, panfish for food, grow most of our own vegetables, and purchase bison and elk from a local farmer for what else meat we consume. Nothing wrong with selective harvest. Agree 100% with sworralls first reply to this post on conservation and the way a muskie tastes... I am old enough to remember when they were considered food. Wouldn't think of harvesting one today. | |
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| I don't hunt but have no objections to people who do, especially deer. After decades of dodging those critters on all night runs to Canada,(especially during the full moon) I've come to appreciate the term 'harvest'. My worse nightmare is having one of your 'trophy bucks' coming thru my windshield and landed in my lap. Been lucky so far.
SV | |
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Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | I don't hunt any longer, all my spots are gone and public hunting grounds around me are accidents waiting to happen. I used to run a trap line, hunt coons, cyotes, fox, ducks, geese, pheasants all the time. It's fine to hunt but you cannot compare the two. Muskies are in a closed environment for the most part and we all know what would happen if everybody that fished for them kept every legal. Becuase they live in an environment different than ours they are harder to pinpoint just exactly what they are doing and their behavior at all times. It is apples and oranges. | |
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Posts: 1335
Location: Chicago, Beverly | I practice CPR but may keep one trophy if I ever catch one big enough to consider keeping... I have seen Muskyboy's trophy replicas he has in his living room... Gotta say I was impressed and a skin mount may never happen with me but I am leaving it open as an option.. If I catch a record sized fish? Yeah, I'd keep it I think.. 44lbs state record would be a big fish.
As for hunting, I have nothing against it at all, keeps the deer heard in check along with the flocks of waterfowl.. I think they need to open the nuiscance goose season around Chicago where it currently is not open... The thought of 747's nose diving to the ground because it flew through a flock of Geese doesn't sound good to me(the plane actually landed safely but with only 1 of the two engines working..) | |
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| Yes, I hunt and I never keep muskies. Actually, some of the best fishermen I know are also hunters. Tell Dick Pearson that hunting is only for those that don't know how to fish and see what your reply is. Or Doug Johnson. Or Pete Maina. For me, the thrill of calling in a wild turkey in early spring is just about as good as it gets on the terra firma. The fact that this takes place before muskie season opens just means I don't have to sacrifice one for the other. | |
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Posts: 1137
Location: Holly, MI | Shep - 9/17/2004 10:39 AM
I hunt, and fish, and practice SELECTIVE harvest. I have not kept a muskie, yet. Maybe never will. However, I reserve the right to harvest a legal fish, should I so desire. I practice selective harvest on walleyes, pike, and panfish. The big females go back. I'll keep a few eaters for a meal or two. Don't keep bass.
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Well said Shep. You took the words out of my mouth except for the Pike, they go back too. I keep a few walleyes and perch to eat. I grill a couple of fresh salmon each year and smoke some for the kids (they treat it like candy).
For me, a bow killed deer is a bigger accomplishment than any Muskie I have ever caught. I wish bow season was as long as the fishing season. I put two in the freezer each fall for food. I think it is better tasting and much better for you than any commercially available red meat. My four boys love it as well as my wife and I. My 5 mo old baby girl has yet to have any input on the subject.
I don't have a problem shooting a doe either. If you can shoot a doe you can shoot a buck. The does are usually in groups out my way so that means you have to fool many sets of eyes, ears and noses. They also tend to be more jittery and wary. A buck in the rut, I won't insult you and call him easy, but is often not the challenge of a smart doe. | |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Well I see this tread has taken off and in great taste. I am learing a lot, would I keep a World Record musky or a state record or a 50 inch fish i am not sure right now it would, as they say, be a game time decision. I know I would not keep a under 50 inch fish unless I new the fish was going to die or already did die then I would eat the fish so at least I feel it went for something. My take on hunting is this, its a sport just the other guy does not know he is playing (Just Kidding), I agree with all except one comment, my uncle hunts in Colorado, all types (antelop, elk, deer and so forth), If you have a ten point buck in your sites and let him good wouldnt he turn into a larger buck like 12 or 14 points? Doe's I could see, but "Trophy's" like in musky fishing would get larger if they let them go. I am glad that I started this thread and saw how much we all think about this topic. As for other fish I let them go, unless I am going to clean them to eat, including carp-bullhead ect. I know that there is a carp fisherman who thinks we are crazy for catching musky at the same time we think he is nuts sitting on that bank carp fishing. But as I see it we are all FISHERMAN and as FISHERMAN we all have a responsibility to give all fish a chance so that carp or bullhead guy gets there chance at a FISH OF A LIFE TIME....
Thanks,
pgaschulz AKA SS Bob | |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The buck can be pretty easily identified as to age if you have the time. Some bucks never develop big racks, some do. Genetics, feed, weather the winter before, sooo much plays into this. I let 13 walk opening weekend last year, including an 18" otr better 7. Just didn't trip the trigger, so no buck for me. Got a couple does, though. Not enough, we are totally overrun on my land. | |
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Posts: 91
Location: Oshawa, Ontario | I am a true diehard CPR Muskie fisher, and have no true philospphical differences with those that wish to hunt AND eat what they kill - PROVIDED _ the kill shot is a sure thing and quick, I have heard too many stories of idiots that take a low percentage shot, gut shoot a poor animal, and track it for hours only to find it suffering or dead after an attempt at escape. Also, trophy hunting is a very poor attempt at hiding the desire to kill!! If you want to shoot a bobcat/wolf/bear, etc. that is not bothering livestock, etc., why not try to get a great photo of it, where lighting, focus, proximity, etc are much more challenging than "scoping" it at a hundred yards and shooting it?? A photo shows just as well as a skin mount, same as a replica muskie versus a skin mount. | |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | You're saying most or even many hunters intentionally take bad shots? No. Part of the mindset is what you mention, a quick and clean kill. Most will pass a bad shot, those who don't need education, big time. I don't agree with the premise that trophy hunters are different than any other hunter, not one whit. Trying to say it's OK to harvest a deer, but not a Bobcat isn't going to make much sense. The population of those animals is controlled by carefully adjusted harvest quotas, just like the other game animals. Justify coyote hunting using that logic, if you can. I know when the hides dropped in value the population by me exploded, near wiping out the grouse. As nature usually does, she took care of the explosion of the coyote population with Mange, which nearly wiped them out. Almost the entire population died, sick and miserable from the disease. Hunting would have controlled the population, and prevented the spread of the disease due to overpopulation.
I have lived in the 'country' most of my life. Desert in New Mexico, Mountains in New Mexico and Colorado, and the Northwoods of Wisconsin. As an outdoorsman, I have seen the big picture in nature work over and over again, and have seen the management programs of the State DNRs work very well. The facts of the matter are that wild animals are NOT cute, cuddlycritters the kids should sleep in with.
This isn't a simple, easy to catagorize issue. It's as complex(or more so) as muskie management, and that's saying something!
Where Bambi goes nothing grows.. | |
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Hunting vs Fishing and CPR I am confused...