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| It seems that a problem many people have is cutting their 8s too tight for a fish to follow. Wouldn't an O work better and be easier on the fish? Why do most people do 8s rather than Os?
Does anyone alternate - 8O8O8O? Vary depths? Vary speeds? How about breaking the surface and then plunging back down?
What works best? |
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Posts: 2089
| Great question!I do both, but typically depends on the fish size.Using longer rods helps, especially on clearer water.The mood of the following fish will also dictate how I execute the boatside manuvers.Depth change in the 8 is critical, but a burst of speed often makes 'em go.It took a few years to get it down , but now I love boatside stuff.They've shown some interest, now make 'em eat!!!!Mark Windels had a few articles in In-Fisherman some years ago that had great text as well as diagrams.Practice, practice, practice. Steve |
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| I'm a big fan of a big oval...deep on one end, shallow on the other..bigger fish can not make tight turns like smaller fish...
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| I personally like a BIGGGG 8....
I do a circle if the fish doesn't seem to want to commit to a tigher turn...but I notice sometimes a relatively tight turn (which is big for a big fish) that is fast and high will trigger a fish.
If the fish gets "lost" on a turn I try and pick it back up with a come back around type circle. Then change depth, speed, angle of the turn...all of them to try and trip the fish.
But give me a fish hot on a bucktail and I will get it to eat on the first turn high and outside and fast...if they don't go then I dive the bait down then come back up in the other end of the 8 FAST and then hit the brakes at the appex of the turn (works killer on some cranks because they are laying over on thier side at this point!) and slow it WAY down....JUST under the surface...a ton of fish will smoke it there....if that doesn't work I repeat and cuse many times....
Cory |
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Posts: 2089
| That's right. I forgot the cursing.Although some of the big females like dirty talk.Great description Cory. Steve |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | I see I can't edit my other post.
I don't stop on the upside...but burn it up fast from the deep part of the turn and then as it comes up I slow it down Really fast as I hit the apex....I think of it as a bait fish trying really hard to escape as it climbs to the surface then just as it gets up there it peters out...injured or what ever. Just below the surface its crawling along....many smoke it here! I think it looks pretty natural....I have some grannys I do this with and it actually looks like an injured bait fish as it turns on its side as I come up fast then as I slow it looks pretty life like to me!!
Then if they STILL don't go after the crawl at the apex I burn it like H#ll down fast as it dives then RIP it up fast again in the far corner...the whole time reading the fish to see what it wants....oh, and cussing up a blue streak. I have done this up to 8 full 8's before the fish finally ate....sometimes in the high fast turn...sometimes at the slow apex...sometimes after the slow apex and then dive down fast and start the fast turn upwards they drill it there...rarely in the straight aways..but have had them overtake it then...but not as many.
Long rods help a ton too...
The key is time on the water and fish with people that really have had a lot of experience with it and watch what they do and hopefully watch what they do and how fish react to what they do....you learn a ton that way...worked for me.
Cory
Edited by C.Painter 8/10/2004 10:30 AM
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | Both the 8 and the 0 have advantages. I think that people like the 8 as there are many changes in direction. The 0 just has 2 changes. The 0 is easier for the fish to follow, so one thing to do to ismake a wave motion in the staight aways of the 0. This gives some direction change, and actually adds some action to the bait. (That is a Kly trick) Make sure to make depthchanges, and speed changes to add triggers. The figure 8 and the 0 are both great tools to have. You should know how to do each one well, and it WILL put fish in the boat. Bottom line. Jonesi, from what I heard, is an artist with this boatside stuff. It must be the longer rod. 
I stuck a fish on a figure 8 on Saturday. She came in, I sped up, she sped up, I made 1 turn, and she ate. How cool is that!!!! |
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| If the fish sticks around, then it is important to speed up the lure, and then go into your J, 8, or O first shallow, then slightly deeper, then slightly deeper. Most fish I have seen this year just turn away from the boat, so I am trying to Z and speed up the retrieve before they get too close to the boat. It is most important to keep the lure action going, however you like to do it!
Steve |
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| I have had some success with the 8 Cory is talking about...I like to take both of the inside turns out away from the boat, keeps the fish focused on the bait rather than a big boat!
Both have times and place...use them both! I think Cory taught me that 8 and it has worked...
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Posts: 699
Location: Hugo, MN | I like the Big O to start with especially if it's a big fish 50"ers can move through the water but do not corner so well and this helps. If the fish follows the O but doesn't take it and sits there to watch you spin it around then I like to go into the figure 8 from there multiple directional changes seem to get curious fish more agressive and sometimes entice the bite. I don't think there is really a right or wrong way here. The key point is to keep the lure in the water for as long as the fish is around the boat +15-30 seconds. I have seen fish go after it seems they swam away or weren't interested. |
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| One technique that has worked for me is to turn the bait quickly on a lengthy follower and bring it back direct at and a little above the fish's face. Many times you get a reaction strike (try real hard not to hit the fish in the face with your rod tip, they don't like that) If all else fails and the fish swims away, try taking the bait out of the water and then really slapping it hard on the surface out away from the boat and just leave it sit there. I usually do this and have caught two fish that came back and ate it. Low percent technique but two extra fish are two extra fish.
Steve |
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Posts: 149
| good post corey. |
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Posts: 28
Location: SOUTHERN..MN | i like ovals more because you have the straight aways like a race track which allows me to add a few extra snaky like turns... i like eight's second and quit using big circles because the curve is continuous and doesn't allow me to add much extra.
Alan |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | Iam with Jonesi. I like just cussing sometimes. Forget all of the hard work like figure 8ing and such. I can't swear at home,because of the kids. So I let the fish have it. LOL |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | Steve I had to Laugh!!!
The slap the lure trick! Early on in my muskie career I had a very experienced buddy of mine do that with a suick and scared the H@ll out of me! I yelled "what the H@ll are you doing!". The fish didn't react that time to it and I thought he was full of bull. Year or so later I seen it done again and it worked! I have done it as well and have brought fish back to the bait that had left...but haven't had the fish eat yet...but I agree it isn't a bad desperate measure to draw them back...kind of a "come back" call for muskies for you duck hunters...and FUN to do with beginners!! Especially with big baits like Jakes!
I also like the back at their face technique...although I am more guilty then not of wacking them in the head with the rod tip...this is soon followed by very large quantities of foul language!
Cory
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Posts: 91
Location: Wausau | Thank You for this post. I have yet to get a fish to hook up on a figure 8 or O, I have now discovered why. I have been trying to sweet talk them into eating, now I find out I need to curse at them and talk dirty. I just shortened the learning curve once again, look out boatside hits hear I come. Better buy a new rain suit to keep me dry.  |
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Posts: 132
Location: Elkhart, IN | An "O" or oval works better for my bad back. I don't know if I don't reach out as far or what it is but it doesn't hurt as much.
Brian |
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| Something that's rarely talked about is watching the fishes reaction and customizing your technique to the mood. Although, I know it's something most really good muskie fishermen do. I often find a game of keep away works best but not always. It's not so much whether it's an 8 or a 0. Sometimes slowing it down and feeding it to them might work too. It depends on the mood of the fish. Watch the fishes reaction and do what it likes. |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | Reading the mood is critical.
In canada this year the fish were following like CRAZY...it was one of those days when they all seemed more curious then anything. Half hearted 8's, slowly swim off, maybe a quick turn or speed would bring them back but not always. They ended up wanted it to be SLOWWWWW and injured. finally I figured out while throwing a suick they wanted the injured..barely able to get away technique. Teasing them with the bait in front of them barely twitching it..making it look like it was dying as much as possible...the best way I found to do this was to bring the fish around on an 8 and then on the slow up swing I would actually break the surface and stop the bait...but would sit there and "bounce" the baits nose on the surface so it caused surface ripples...kind of like when shad are dying on the surface. Many of the muskies would nose right up to the bait...some would start to nose it ( I mean actually lift the bait with their NOSE, fish up to 44 inches!) then swim off and then a quick down and away move would bring them back again to play. This happened MANY times through out the day...got a lot of practice..but boy the shoulder hurt from reaching out as far as I could dancing the bait on the surface.
Had a mid 30 inch fish nose up on the bait and hit the suick FOUR times...three of the times were half @ssed...so I kept the bait on the surface dancing it...finally on the forth hit he got a hook!
Also got this to work later in the Day with a squirlly Double D...the squirelly tail would dance on the surface nicely...had a 42 eat that...but blew the hook set.
So yes...need to read the mood.
Sometimes just because they are slow and low doesn't mean they can't get fired up. I had my eyes opened a few years ago up on Eagle while I was fishing with a VERY good fig 8 man Donnie Hunt. He had a ~30 lber come in Slow and low behind an eagle tail in October...if I had bet money that fish would have just kept right on going under the boat. Donnie saw the fish coming and started diving the bucktail down as it got closer to the boat...the fish followed but really didn't change its mood..still back and below..then Donnie went nuts and ripped the bait into and 8 way wide...I mean he was hanging out over the boat and hanging on to the gunnel with one hand. That fish also went nuts...racing as fast as it could and closed right behind the bait and was throwing water to make the turns....it was truly and eye opening experience to see a fish go from ho hum to electric!!! The fish never did eat...but it went around like 4 times VERY hot....It did teach me a very valuable leason though...fish can be tripped.
Read the mood...what the fish...if its behind someone elses bait watch what they are doing and how the fish reacts...learning how to figure 8 well doesn't mean you have to be the one doing it all the time!!
Cory
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | Hey I was thinking...I had a 42 incher hit on a figure 8 in June and it barrel rolled right up my rod and snapped the tip off (Landed the fish though!).
Anyone else have this happen once they hook a fish in a fig 8???
Cory |
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8 vs. O