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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | I’m wondering how many people think color really matters in the baits that they use? I know there are lakes out there where one certain color really seems to make a difference. But I think this is the exception to the rule.
My thoughts on color is that it really doesn’t make much of a difference. I think it comes down to what you’ve got confidence in. You can take one lake and one lure on that lake and ask 5 fishermen that use that one bait on that one lake what their favorite color is, and you might get 5 different answers. So is one color really better than another? Or is it all a matter of confidence?
I’ve got one bait in a perch pattern that I like better than any other in that style. I’ve got another bait in walleye that I like better than any other. It doesn’t matter what lake I’m on either. I just happen to have confidence in those two baits because I’ve caught so many fish on them.
Two falls ago I was nailing a ton of fish on fire tiger. I never changed because I didn’t need to. They wanted that color. Or did they? This past fall I tried to test my theory. I hardly used fire tiger. I primarily used two other completely different colors and I caught just as many as I did on fire tiger the year before. So while I first thought fire tiger was the hot color, now I just happen to think it was the bait style and the presentation that made the difference and that color had nothing to do with it.
So rather than get even more long winded here…There are so many awesome looking paint jobs on the newer baits, and even the old standbys, but does color really matter? Or are they just out to catch fishermen and not fish?
Edited by AWH 3/16/2004 2:01 PM
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Posts: 1310
Location: Washington, PA | I've seen color matter MANY times. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I dont know about overall....but my gut tells me the way that a muskie sees or feels a topwater bait, color doesnt matter. Just a loud disturbance on the surface, either they eat it or they dont, doesnt matter much about the color. |
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Posts: 440
| The color thing is really up in the air for me. I have a Shallow Invader that I put the markers to after the pait peeled, ugly as a mud fence in a rain storm. Scored me five fish last fall. I do like nice paint jobs, they give me confidence until I know a bait catches fish. I already knew that Shallow Invader moved fish, that is why I didn't send it back. I bet that you can't get that Sunburst DDD stolen out of Shawn's (aka.. Lone Stone) box without getting tossed in the lake. It has caught fish from gin clear water to the nasty flowage color of the Chip. I think that confidence breeds success, but sometimes When in Rome do as the Romans Do. |
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Posts: 28
Location: SOUTHERN..MN | color matters to the fisherman...if you do not like the color of the
bait that you are throwing you are NOT going to catch anything...for me
the color white is a confidence color , for some it's the color black or
firetiger ,etc.
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Posts: 1137
Location: Holly, MI | Boy this is a toughie! How come a red head/white body only seems to catch pike and not muskie? Lake St Clair has such a huge population of perch and walleye as the main forage that I won't go too far from perch/walleye relatives at least when trolling. Then there is the goofy "Bannana" from another post that moves the fish, what the heck does that look like? How about shape? Most lures at least resemble a food shape. How about a big spinnerbait? What does that look like, a giant safety pin being followed by a couple of spinning blades and chased by some big rubbery thing. How about walleye or salmon fishing when only one color seems to work that day. If you got it you get fish, if you don't then you buy some that night and it won't work tomorrow, heh heh.
I do believe color matters. Not 100% of course, some days any old thing will work. How about highly pressured fish, do you want to throw the same thing as the last few boats by the weed bed did? I do however also agree that most of the color catches the fisherman. If the bait is even close to what they want it will most likly work. I have had muskies landed on home paint jobs that look like my 3 yr old painted them, but they had the right basic colors. |
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Posts: 1938
Location: Black Creek, WI | Tough question with no definite answer, that's for sure.
I can say with some confidence that color alone will NOT catch you more fish. But, in my opinion, strategically incorporating color into your presentation may offer some benefit under certain circumstances.
Obviously, you gotta be in the right place at the right time first. Thus, the classic In Fisherman equation (F+L+P=Success) earns its stipes again. For arguements sake, lets say "Right place, right time" will catch you 95% of your fish. Many people may be happy with those results and just don't care about that extra 5%... so then the details of "presentation" probably are not very significant. In that case, color makes NO difference.
But, if you start playing the laws of probability and statistics.... then perfecting your presentation probably has some advantages. Color is one aspect of your presentation. Thus, it may have some significance.
Check out the Research Board for more discussions regarding color. Lots of interesting perspectives there....
jlong
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| Color matters, paint jobs don't really matter. Some colors are better than others. It is hard to get empirical data at times to support the argument that color matters, due to low densities on fish numbers, but when you look at walleye, largemouth, crappie, smallmouth there is often a color that produces best, most easily seen on side by side jig fishing.
Just because you can't always discern a best color does not mean that there is not a best color, in fact it wouldn't make sense that there wasn't a best color. There must be visual cues along with other sensory cues to trigger a strike from a musky, and it would make sense that along with shape, and movement, that there would be a "best" color.
Best color may be variable at any time relating to water clarity and color and may be a case of most visible=best. Best color may also be the one that resembles a favored bait fish, particularly in water with an abundance of forage. Regardless of my results or your results I guarantee that there is a best color. Often times this gets lost in the finding the best action, or the best speed but if we had enough of a population of casters out there and had data from all of them we would surely see a best color pattern emerge and change as conditions did. |
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Posts: 69
Location: Just above the thermoclime | Just like everyone said, yeah it matters. Not all the time but I'd say more often than not it matters. Just ask Musky99 if color matters - color made quite a bit of difference for him last year at the CR PMTT. |
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Posts: 743
| AWH, color seems to make more of difference w/ trollers than casters.
when trolling, you know what baits to put out, so you are down to speed, depth or color when "changing it up". |
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Posts: 305
Location: Illinois | AWH I agree with Tomcat that color does matter when trolling. I always put at least two different color pattens out and I may go several trips in a row where one color will produce all the action whether it be from musky or bonus fish.I think it matters in trolling because fish get a good long look at the bait and color may be the difference between a strike and a turn off. I also believe that in jigging situations color does matter as once again the fish may get a chance to study and register the bait. As far as topwaters, burning bucktails or any method that is meant to elicit a reactionary strike I don't think color is nearly as important. |
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | Lots of good responses here so far and I find myself agreeing with pretty much everything that's being said.
What go me asking this question in the first place is the bucktails I just started making...when buying baits I tend to stick to a budget (not easy to do!) and buy just a few of my favorite colors of each bait. Now with these bucktails I'm making, I'm looking at making just about every color imaginable. I made my first dozen baits all in different colors. And now I'm trying to think of even more good color combinations to come up with, even though I feel MOST of the time color doesn't matter a whole lot. I tend to believe that you can get by with about 3 different "shades" of each style bait, and one of those is going to turn some fish.
Good point on trolling too. I find myself trolling quite a bit in the fall and that's when I get more apt to change baits to find the hot color. Much more so than when casting.
AWH |
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Posts: 17
Location: mn | Here is an intersting link I came across about lures and color.
Hope it adds to the discussion - FB
http://freespace.virgin.net/dave.lumb/Writings/colourcode.html |
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Location: Warroad, Mn | If it moves, it's food! Color is the last thing I consider.Doug Johnson |
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Location: Metro, MN | I'm hungry...pork chops go whizzing by, then T-bones, then fried fish fillets, followed by lamb shoulders, and lastly fried chicken pieces. I think I'll get the ones I can grab...doesn' matter which. |
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Posts: 87
Location: michigan | Just my 2 cents, when casting it is much harder to compare which color or other varibles are working better than others. I spend 90% of my time trolling on Lake St. Clair and color does matter. There are days when they will eat any thing, but when they decide to get picky (most of the time) being able to get the right color/bait combinations is what seperates a no or low fish day and scoring big. Keep good records and pay close attention to water color and cloud cover including the different types of clouds (I know this sounds extreme) And you will see a pattern develop. Frank |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Did anyone see the video running in the Mania/Drifter booth at the shows this season? They had video of a color camera mounted to a downrigger ball. I was surprised to find out it was a color camera becuase the image was black and white. Apparently deeper then x color is not an issue based on that video. I don't know what x is. I believe they were running baits from 10-25ft in the video. |
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Posts: 1137
Location: Holly, MI | Luke, I went down 90 feet in a sub once and they talked about depth and the gradual loss of colors starting with red. We watched eachothers lips turn deep blue then almost black. Check this out..
http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/wonderquest/2001-03-07-deep-wa...
And an even better article talking about Colors underwater including Florescent! ..
http://www.deep-six.com/page77.htm |
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Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I think color does matter. Sometimes it matters more, sometimes the fish are just in a feeding frenzy and a group of colors will work.
I also think you have to consider how much time you have put on the water to see the changes that occur on a lake.
For example this summer for about 3 weeks Pink bucktails and spinner baits were SUPER HOT. We tried them before this hot streak occured, and after, but for some reason for about 3 weeks Pink was the color. On the same lake a black and orange belly bulldawg was also a hot color. We tried black with orange tails, all orange, half black half orange, nothing got the fish to react like the black with the orange belly. Why?? No idea. Color does matter, and like I said, someday it matters more somedays it doesn't matter hardly at all.
Spending as much time as you can on the water will show you that color changes do occur and there are times that you do need a specific color to get action. |
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Posts: 1046
| Here is what I know, While fishing and this has happened more than I care to mention is that having a certain fish follow several times on a certain bait then just switching color but continuing to throw the same style bait that fish will hit. I myself list color as very important, especially in pressured situations and I also beleive that certain waters have certain color presentations that are alot more sucessful then many think. I have started throwing colors that I have to paint myself because they are not available how I want them, one other point, does color make a difference at night ? you bet! |
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| When fish are hot, color doesn't matter a bit, but that happens rarely. Color does matter depending on water clarity and light conditions. Some bodies of water it matters more than others but I don't really know why other than possible bait fish preferences.
Steve |
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Posts: 32954
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Color in water is a confusing issue. Water acts as a prism, breaking down the light with red going first, and blues/violets last. There are dozens of variables including particulate, sun angle due to the season, wind/wave action, air clarity, etc. Best to assume what you see above the water is not what the fish see. Compound colors are an issue, as is the base over which a color is painted.
I have always preached contrast. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Does it matter? ABSOLUTELY!!!! Sometimes.
Examples:
Last year (October) on Big V we thought we timed the cisco spawn so we were throwing white, silver, blue and nothing! I switched to a fire tiger Wabull and bang! Moving fish for the rest of weekend on that bait/color combo.
Last October again on Mille Lac timing the cisco spawn again. Throwing combinations of white, silver, grey, and blue and nothing! Changed to a walleye pattern and bang, 2 in the boat and 2 dozen more showing themselves.
On a new bait I made (dive and rise) I decided to give it a bright chart/pink dot finish. For 2 years not even a sniff on it (ask ToddM how he likes the action on his). I had Todd from Phantom paint it walleye and bang, first 10 minutes it had one.
Other times we've moved fish on any color and some days we can't move anything to save our lives. So color matters sometimes, and when it does you'd better have what they want to be satisfied to go home empty handed. |
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Posts: 67
| lobi,
What kind of sub was that? I've been down to, (well that's classified), well below 90 ft. and my lips and the others lips were still red.
Old Navy |
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| I know that color is not always a factor but action is. Having said that, I read a article a couple years back about color theroies about "The Perkijie Shift"( I probable don't have that spelled correctly). Anyhow, what I gathered from this article was that Atmospheric conditions make some colors really stand out. For example: Have you ever noticed before certain storms the grass on peoples lawns looks more brilliant. If you havent thats OK. My point is that certain colors DO stand out during different conditions and not just because it is a prominent color(at times it is hard to tell the difference). On the way to the launch I am looking for colors that do stand out whether it is a yellow flower or a certain color on a persons house, a road sign etc. Also while I am fishing I am on the look out for colors that catch my eye. Water clarity plays a major role in this especially when fishing deeper. When I have 2 or more lures of the same action that I want to fish with. I lay them out and step back, Then when I look at them from a distance there is usually a color that sticks out. Thats what I start with. Using multi colored lures you are covering more bases. I also believe that the Firetiger lures are so productive not only does it catch the eyes of fisherman, also Muskies! After all we are trying to catch more Muskies, If you put some thought into which color(s) you use it will increase the odds... and put a extra 1 or 2 in the boat. Dan |
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Location: Holly, MI | Decoy - 3/17/2004 10:26 AM
lobi,
What kind of sub was that? I've been down to, (well that's classified), well below 90 ft. and my lips and the others lips were still red.
Old Navy
It was a civilian sub on St Thomas I think. I think it was used to make movies etc. It held about 40 people sitting in seats like on a bus. When you went down did you have interior lighting? Red should start fading at only 10 ft. |
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Posts: 27
Location: North Branch, Minnesota | I’ve never been much of a proponent of colors. I would say it’s part of the mix for sure, but there are some things that are far more important. Action is my primary determining factor and that goes hand in hand with location. You wouldn’t throw a crankbait into 6” of water. Size of lure would be the next important thing to me, and color would be the last thing on my list of important things. I do use color and at times it makes a difference. I will say that my color choices are not as detailed as most; IE: the white belly perch outfishes the orange belly perch. I don’t buy that. There is something about that white belly bait that runs better than your orange. We all have a couple great baits that started out black and they’re pretty much pine or hard maple color now and still catch fish as well or better than when it was a black bait.
My color choices are more shades. Bright, chartreuse, oranges, etc. Light, whites, shad colors, and even perch patterns, and dark, black and browns.
Take a bait and hold it up to a light source and tell me what color it is; at any time during the day or night, above the water is always brighter than below in any direction. Remember Jaws coming up under someone riding a surfboard? What color swim trunks was the swimmer wearing? You can’t tell, it’s all a gray for the most part and I’ve always said a muskie will come up 15-20’ to eat a bait but it won’t go down 2’ for one.
Dark baits are easier to see using this logic, so I use them more often. I realize there are exceptions to that rule, but that’s my basic philosophy.
Joe Carlson
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | I absolutely believe color makes a big difference most of the time. It's been mentioned that it makes more of a difference for the trollers than casters, but I don't believe that is so. It may seem like it does because not only are you covering more water and finding more active fish than a caster, but by running multiple lines you narrow that color part of the equation down faster than a caster. That to me doesn't mean it's more important to one than the other.
Color in itself may not be what is making the difference, but contrast may be most of the time. I don't care for lures that don't have a lot of contrast, at least most of the time. Perch bars on lures, black/white, firetiger, black/chartreuse, and black/orange are all high contrasting colors combinations. I have fished some lures that are all white for the most part (Superman color by Mania tackle), and haven't had as much luck with them. There are of course exceptions, but I think those are the days when just getting the lure in front of the fish is good enough. The all white doesn't give me the belly "flash" that I like.
To me, contrast and "flash" (either through color or holoform/prism) are what is important in a lure once you have action figured out. However, I also feel color can play a role in getting a lure's "action" noticed in clear water, i.e. the shocker method! |
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| Color allows a fish to see the bait easier: You can't eat what you don't see. Getting back to the pork chops and other food whizzing by post, if we didn't see them go by we probably wouldn't eat them. The action and movement of the bait causes the strike once it is seen. Think about any other predator does the color of thier prey really matter other than being able to see it and identify it as food? The post about hitting the cisco spawn and fishing with cisco colored baits makes sense that the fish reacted to the firetiger/loud pattern. That stood out from the thousands of other ciscos swimming in the area. Think of a clown in a crowd of people dressed in black suites. It stands out.
Jason Malone |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | A few years ago, I used my bro's scuba gear and he threw baits over my head. We were on Katherine a very clear lake. I was only down 5- 15 ft. I couldn't tell the color of a bait until it was within 5 ft of me, otherwise all I could see was the silouette. Dark baits had a better silouette. |
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Posts: 148
Location: DES MOINES, IOWA | I really haven,t seen much of a difference on colors in clear water, but have seen a big difference in stained water fishing. On Sabaskong orange is the hot color, and yellow and chartreuse have their days.I definitely, can see orange in the water from farther distances.I would really like to get Doug Johnson,s imput on this as far as LOTW.I know one PMTT Pro who feels color has no bearing in catching fish. |
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| lobi,
I assume the sub your talking about was a wet sub, ie. one that floods the passanger compartment. |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | On a similar tangent.
Check this link out.
http://www.deep-six.com/page76.htm
I got it from a site that lobi linked to earlier in this post. Great information lobi, way to be!
This article says that underwater a diver can't tell the direction of sound, but can hear it farther away then in air.
Do you think this non-direction applies to Muskies? or is their lateral line evolved enough to be able to figure out direction under water?
If not maybe the sound/vibration triggers them to look for bait, then the sight (action and color) is the final trigger?
Edited by Jomusky 3/17/2004 8:27 PM
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | <p>First- I think color is important for both the muskie and the fisherman. I think the reasons are probably diametric, i.e, they are opposite. The 2003 season really proved this for me. </p><p>Jomusky, A word of caution- I would not ascribe human hearing underwater to how muskies hear sounds. Our ear's have evolved for sound in a gaseous environment, theirs in a liquid environment. It is quite likely that their brain's process the recieved information differently. F. ex muskies do have two ears, but no external openings. Plus structurally they are different than ours. This would seem to present some difficulties. However, I think mother nature has solved those. Meaning the sound has to strike one ear first, much like a bat's echo imaging system. Bat's have two ears just like us but they use them very differently. I believe muskies have sound directional capability. However, all I have is ancedotal proof, i.e., stuff I've actually witnessed. The underwater world has to be pretty darn noisy, especially with all the man made noise polution. When I'm really focus'd on fishing I don't talk much. If the sound stands out from the background clutter it probably gets noticed.</p><p>To All: Here's a little experiment. take cup of coffee or glass of water now take a teaspoon of sugar and pour it into the cup/glass. Did you hear anything? Maybe a thousand little pebbles striking the surface of the coffee/water. Now picture what it must be like for a muskie in a hard rain storm.</p><p>Have you caught any muskies during a hard rain, I haven't, but I have caught them during the breaks between rain squalls. Waves, also make noises. How does the muskie differentiate the topwater bait from the background clutter? I don't think it's just lateral line info. </p><p>I recently saw a comment about Mr. Worralls underwater sound experiments, which in essence said the sounds of voices above the water was also picked up by the microphone under the water. I've got to test this the next time I'm in the pool w/ the grandkids. </p><p>As for background & stuff on color underwater, muskie vision and sound underwater check out the Muskie Research Form threads. Lots of good information to digest & formulate into new strategies for fishing muskies.</p><p>Al Waner</p><p>"All Water is Zalt Water"</p><p><a href="http://www.zaltnad.com/">http://www.zaltnad.com</a></p>
Edited by ESOX Maniac 3/18/2004 7:57 AM
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Location: Racine WI | Jomusky - 3/17/2004 8:26 PM
This article says that underwater a diver can't tell the direction of sound, but can hear it farther away then in air.
Do you think this non-direction applies to Muskies? or is their lateral line evolved enough to be able to figure out direction under water?
I think it's been pretty well established by scientists that fish with a developed lateral line can tell direction and distance with a high level of accuracy. It probably evolved specifically to counter the directional difficulty a point-receptor (the eardrum) has in a dense medium like water. Vision would be pretty useless in extremely murky/muddy (as opposed to stained) water, especially at night -- yet predators and prey must have some way of locating each other. |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | <p>MiserMike- That would also be true if they had ear drums, they don't. I'm not saying lateral line is not important. It's also been established that some fish produce & use sounds for mating. </p><p>Here's an ancedotal example of what I've witnessed with northern pike. Fishing a small river slough with lily pads around the edges and breaks in the pads, throwing red & white daredevil. I cast to the other side and land it in one of the breaks. Immediately a ~16" northern come out of the water from my side of the slough and is actually hydroplaning toward the point where the lure hit, only the back 1/3 of the fish is in the water. This fish covered at least ~30 feet on a dead line for that spot. It then dove, I turned the crank maybe six revolutions and the fish hit. The lure landed ~ 50 feet from where the fish was originally located. I'm serious this fish's response was immediate. I don't think waves from the splash had the necessary time to stimulate the lateral line. </p><p>Al</p> |
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Does color really matter?