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Location: Bloomington, MN | I understand times have changed, but the drop from 10+ years ago on viewers and posts doesn't make sense to me. I understand about the sharing of hot bites. This site did probably put 10+ boats extra on Vineland Bay or on Vermilion, but those days are pretty much over. We had league fishing teams many moons ago. Lots O Fun! Now it is crickets minus a couple of us old guys yapping about the past. Subscribe, and add content.
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| I am a newbie here. I was thrilled to find a place to ask and learn about Muskie and Eagle lake. We don't have Muskie here in Kansas so I tried to gather as many tips as I could and also just enjoy talking Muskie fishing. I met several super nice guys that would DM me tips etc and it helped alot as we had an awesome trip. So I appreciate this site a ton.......but that pop up ad's are atrocious. I'm on a lot of fishing websites and this is by far the worst as far as those pop ups go but once you get past them I've met some nice helpful folks that I sure appreciate. | |
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Location: Brighton CO. | As we speak there are 5 signed in and 190 guests. if you are a guest we're not adding content. From time to time I'll post something to get people talking and there are very few takers. I get it I'm a old guy and the worlds changing. | |
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Posts: 710
Location: Duluth | Muskie world is pretty polarized at this point. A lot of guys I know and respect would rather just keep quiet and not generate any attention. | |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Why take time to learn from other, more experienced fishers when you can spend a grand on some fancy electronics and , well...m | |
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| Lots of groups on Facebook I’m guessing. Easier to access and make posts. | |
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| CincySkeez - 7/14/2026 11:33 AM
Muskie world is pretty polarized at this point. A lot of guys I know and respect would rather just keep quiet and not generate any attention.
I don't think I realized how polarized until I joined musky league last summer. At the organizational meeting, the issue of FFS was brought up for a vote. The discussion was very heated, despite most present having been in the league for some time and the folks knowing each other. The final vote was not to allow and some were still angry at the end of the season. My partner and I just kept our mouths shut but we both were struck by how heated it got. | |
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| Yes, there is real polarization. I've seen some real awkward silence between people that used to yuk it up.
Also, things change. There was a time that there were 3 tv channels, and the entire nation watched only those 3. If you put something on all 3 channels, everyone saw it. Give a Hoot, don't Pollute! Now, unlimited viewing options. Same goes with everything else. Fracture into little smaller groups.
I still don't understand how anyone has an issue with pop up ads, or other targeted ads. I never get any. On any sites. If you get them, that's on you for allowing them. Take control of your browsing. | |
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| The hard truth is that you have to be a little off to want to fish for these things. When you put a bunch of people together who all have a screw or two loose things are bound to get ugly sometimes, especially when you add beer. | |
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Posts: 35
| Very few Millenials and fewer Gen Z have the money, OR the time to dedicate to a difficult passion to pursue. This is an incredibly niche hobby that demands a lot of resources.
Combine a massive regression in social/economic quality of life with the long decline of message boards, it's not surprising to see activity drop to single digits.
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| Tyendinaga - 7/15/2026 8:31 AM
Very few Millenials and fewer Gen Z have the money, OR the time to dedicate to a difficult passion to pursue. This is an incredibly niche hobby that demands a lot of resources.
Combine a massive regression in social/economic quality of life with the long decline of message boards, it's not surprising to see activity drop to single digits.
Well put. I work in finance and would say I have a 90th percentile job for being 23 and living in MN. I live very conservatively and have no debt post-college. Despite this, there is absolutely no way I could muskie fish without my dad being into it. At the minimum, you probably need 50k cash to get on the water with a half decent boat and truck. That's a pretty insane barrier to entry for a niche hobby that no-one my age does. Yes, you can obviously shore fish or find cheaper ways to put yourself in the position to catch a fish but if you want a serious chance I think 50k is the minimum starting from ground zero to putting yourself in a position to have a 10-20 muskie year. | |
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Posts: 85
| Most small forums are dying, it seems.
muskyfirst is a good example. A long time ago, when you googled something about muskies, you'd land here, probably get a good answer, and maybe become active. After that but before LLMs, SEO crap started to dominate, so you'd likely not land here. Maybe you end up at Wired2Fish instead. Now you can rely on google search and probably get unhelpful SEO crap or ask an LLM and probably get a decent answer. TLDR: People who used to land here don't anymore.
Plus it's musky fishing so if you accidentally give anything important away, you'll certainly catch fewer fish in the future. | |
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| esoxaddict - 7/14/2026 6:27 PM
The hard truth is that you have to be a little off to want to fish for these things. When you put a bunch of people together who all have a screw or two loose things are bound to get ugly sometimes, especially when you add beer.
LOL, lot of truth in this. My son is a good fisherman and actually did well on musky the few times he went out. But, his message to me after college was, "yeah, I like to fish but I like to catch them, that is why I am not a big fan of musky fishing". | |
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Location: Duluth | esoxaddict - 7/14/2026 6:27 PM
The hard truth is that you have to be a little off to want to fish for these things. When you put a bunch of people together who all have a screw or two loose things are bound to get ugly sometimes, especially when you add beer.
This was also the best part. Even if you were a rich kid back then you had to be a crazy one that was willing to grind, and a lot of dudes took/take pride in that.
The 50k number posted above is laughable but also shows you where things have gone. | |
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Posts: 464
Location: SW Ohio | I don't think it has to do with the costs or effort required to chase these fish. Maybe, but it doesn't cost much to log into a site and post. I also don't think its the ads...I can't speak for everyone or anyone other than myself but I see no adds on my iphone or my laptop. Yeah, there are a ton of other sites but very few dedicated to muskies. FB is loaded with pages but those are a fecal matter show most of the time.
I do think that this site's traffic dropped off after the "ffs wars" or discussions that happened a while back. Members attacking members solely based on their perspective of ffs (no pun intended). Some of the things that were posted were astonishing. I know I backed off a great deal from coming on here for a while. I now check the site every morning and see the same thing...one or two "registered" users and a whole bunch of guests (bots?). I post occasionally but I'm "way down south" from most of the members...my weather, lake conditions, etc. are far from what most of you see up north (well, maybe not now that the water temps are up all over). Heat will let up next week but I doubt the water will cool off as quickly.
Just my two cents on the OP's question. | |
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| SouthernMNMuskie - 7/15/2026 9:10 AM
Well put. I work in finance and would say I have a 90th percentile job for being 23 and living in MN. I live very conservatively and have no debt post-college. Despite this, there is absolutely no way I could muskie fish without my dad being into it. At the minimum, you probably need 50k cash to get on the water with a half decent boat and truck. That's a pretty insane barrier to entry for a niche hobby that no-one my age does. Yes, you can obviously shore fish or find cheaper ways to put yourself in the position to catch a fish but if you want a serious chance I think 50k is the minimum starting from ground zero to putting yourself in a position to have a 10-20 muskie year.
This is so wrong, I almost don't know where to begin. You do not need anywhere near 50k to start muskie fishing. You can get a 16 ft. tin tub with a 20 horse motor, for 5 or 6 grand. Won't be pretty, but will float just fine, in those little lakes in your neck of the woods. few hundred more gets you an electric trolling motor, batteries, and a fish finder. That rig is light enough to pull with a car, so no need for a truck. You can splurge a few hundred on a nice rod and reel, net, release tools, and some new baits, and you are set. You could even trim it down more with used rod, reel, and baits. With that set up, you can easily catch 10 to 20 muskies in southern Minnesota and northern Iowa. Many more if you have time to fish a ton.
Edited by TCESOX 7/15/2026 6:26 PM
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| A lot of factors, 15+ (especially 20+) years ago most would share every detail, current patterns, hot baits because there really wasn’t that many guys chasing them. I can remember 2005 telling a member I had never met(in person)to go fish the saddle as you enter Monument bay, raised a couple giants on topraiders… told them 10 other spots to hit, it just felt like spots were endless and pressure minimal on lotw back then… times change! Also..Those of us that still check in have beat almost every topic to death over the years, my favorite part of this site anymore is using the search function, if you’re new to musky fishing go read some threads from 2004-2009…great discussions ya there were lots of debates, heck I often stirred the pot just to see reactions ... but there was also some really good information shared. Very few want to share info anymore, or they want paid to do so! | |
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| TCESOX - 7/15/2026 7:24 PM
SouthernMNMuskie - 7/15/2026 9:10 AM
Well put. I work in finance and would say I have a 90th percentile job for being 23 and living in MN. I live very conservatively and have no debt post-college. Despite this, there is absolutely no way I could muskie fish without my dad being into it. At the minimum, you probably need 50k cash to get on the water with a half decent boat and truck. That's a pretty insane barrier to entry for a niche hobby that no-one my age does. Yes, you can obviously shore fish or find cheaper ways to put yourself in the position to catch a fish but if you want a serious chance I think 50k is the minimum starting from ground zero to putting yourself in a position to have a 10-20 muskie year.
This is so wrong, I almost don't know where to begin. You do not need anywhere near 50k to start muskie fishing. You can get a 16 ft. tin tub with a 20 horse motor, for 5 or 6 grand. Won't be pretty, but will float just fine, in those little lakes in your neck of the woods. few hundred more gets you an electric trolling motor, batteries, and a fish finder. That rig is light enough to pull with a car, so no need for a truck. You can splurge a few hundred on a nice rod and reel, net, release tools, and some new baits, and you are set. You could even trim it down more with used rod, reel, and baits. With that set up, you can easily catch 10 to 20 muskies in southern Minnesota and northern Iowa. Many more if you have time to fish a ton.
It's that dropping $5,000-$6000 right now, to the Millenial/Gen Z audience, for a hobby like this, let alone having enough in savings to justify, is a frankly irresponsible decision, or an unfathomable one. That is where the perspective shift is. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Clark,
There's still traffic on OFM et al. worth hanging on to; otherwise, we would have shut things down long ago. Plus, as mentioned, there are a couple of decades of very valuable discussion we don't want to lose.
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Location: S.W. WI | last 30 years kids have been more and more consumed by a screen, not doing things. Parents use as babysitter. IMO, it has gotten to the point of they have almost zero interest in anything that takes effort having been raised on instant gratification and 30 second clips. People live with their nose in a phone. I see it all day every day. everywhere. Ridiculous. Pathetic.
I call BS on the financial part being a big deterrent. It has always been a little pricey for muskie fishing, They have zero interest.
Not everyone...... just most......
Edited by Rudedog 7/16/2026 6:15 AM
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Location: WI | I think the image of fishing is just more expensive. Boats are bigger. Screens are bigger. Motors are bigger and everything is shiny. Reality is young adults don’t usually have much money and while you can fish with less than what some guy on YouTube does, the perception of a large mountain of cash/debt in front of them probably turns them off. | |
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Posts: 464
Location: SW Ohio | I’ve seen a small uptick in the numbers of younger fisherman on our local lake, even during the week. Usually, it’s 2-3 per boat. May or may not have electronics above a trolling motor. Not sure what they’re fishing for as I see all sorts of baits being cast. But our Muskies eat just about anything from walleye jigs to big rubber so who knows. Boats are nothing fancy…small alum bass or v-hulls but they’re on the water. The weekends are so crowded that it by itself could be a turn off. Who wants to sit for an hour waiting to launch then wait another hour just to tie up to get the boat out? And get pounded all day but all the other boats. It’s lessened since the end of the pandemic but is still really bad. Glad I can choose to fish weekdays now.
There’s not much in the way of musky clubs around here. Since most of the musky lakes are north and east of here, all the clubs are located that way. The MI club here folded years ago from what I understand, well before I started chasing them. Unless a kid has someone willing to take them out, not much opportunity for them to fish. Bass clubs and tournaments are still predominate with weeknight and weekends occasional weekend tournaments. They seem to get a lot more attention. | |
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Location: PA Angler | IMO Muskie fishing is becoming more popular especially since our state finally started to stock and get into them more .Changing size and creel.
Seems like forums are dying and becoming more of the past. I was on a bunch and only a handful left. Most went to politics then shut down. Seems like everyone just attacking someone, I know some forums were worse. A lot just want to be spoon fed. Seems like they started to be more trolls than people wanting to talk and help out.
Have to agree about the adds here tho. Every time I click on something I get an ad.
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| I find it funny that everyone is attacking the money aspect on it when that is the exact reason my friends don't muskie fish. I have asked my friends. We do talk every once in a while (even face-to-face if you would believe it). Mille Lacs, Vermillion, LOTW, Leech, Cass, Minnetonka are all huge lakes that require a little more than a 16ft boat. Yes, you can fish the small lakes in Southern MN just fine with a 16ft boat pulled by a SUV (look at used car prices, still very expensive) but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action.
I see how you may think it costs less than that to get into the sport but in reality, it IS that much. You can't expect any sane person (even the type that wants to muskie fish) to drop 10k for a trash setup that lets you fish small southern MN lakes for low density fish.
I also find it funny the older generation always blames phones, attention spans, and lack of ambition for why hobbies are dying out. No, it's the fact that a double cowgirl is the same cost as two hours at most kids' minimum wage job haha. Not everyone lived in a time where college was cheap, you could buy a house for $100K, and your state pension and social security could allow you to safely float through retirement. Yes, the younger generations are far from perfect and have their problems but accessibility and barriers to entry are to blame along with the surly gatekeepers of information that refuse to help anyone out. I'm all for putting in the work and figuring it out yourself but just remember someone taught all of you to walk, talk, and read. But maybe I'm just wrong and "spoon fed" for realizing that I was fortunate enough to have someone help me get into the sport. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There are about 29000 views on the first page of the board. It's also summer, which is a slow time here. Not awful at all, and given the shift to social media, impressive that this community still takes some time here. We appreciate it for sure.
It's always been free, and it still ranks number one for a muskie information search. Could be a lot worse.
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| Actually this forum was the top result on my search. In fairness it was specifically regarding Crow Lake in Ontario. Happy to have joined this forum for my time here at Crow and LOTW. | |
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| Has the aura left the sport?
As for a young guy starting out, when I did the hardest fishing in my life I was between 22 and 38 years old. I fished out of a 16 footer with a 25 horse. Took that boat everywhere, including LOTW, Eagle, Vermilion and parts of the Great Lakes. | |
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Location: WI | SouthernMNMuskie - 7/16/2026 11:12 AM
I find it funny that everyone is attacking the money aspect on it when that is the exact reason my friends don't muskie fish. I have asked my friends. We do talk every once in a while (even face-to-face if you would believe it). Mille Lacs, Vermillion, LOTW, Leech, Cass, Minnetonka are all huge lakes that require a little more than a 16ft boat. Yes, you can fish the small lakes in Southern MN just fine with a 16ft boat pulled by a SUV (look at used car prices, still very expensive) but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action.
I see how you may think it costs less than that to get into the sport but in reality, it IS that much. You can't expect any sane person (even the type that wants to muskie fish) to drop 10k for a trash setup that lets you fish small southern MN lakes for low density fish.
I also find it funny the older generation always blames phones, attention spans, and lack of ambition for why hobbies are dying out. No, it's the fact that a double cowgirl is the same cost as two hours at most kids' minimum wage job haha. Not everyone lived in a time where college was cheap, you could buy a house for $100K, and your state pension and social security could allow you to safely float through retirement. Yes, the younger generations are far from perfect and have their problems but accessibility and barriers to entry are to blame along with the surly gatekeepers of information that refuse to help anyone out. I'm all for putting in the work and figuring it out yourself but just remember someone taught all of you to walk, talk, and read. But maybe I'm just wrong and "spoon fed" for realizing that I was fortunate enough to have someone help me get into the sport.
If the bar for entry to the sport is fishing big water in a 17+ foot boat, then yes it is expensive. It’s not a barrier though, it’s a choice. I would argue that bar was expensive back in 2006 when I got out of school as well. Probably would have been expensive in 1986 too. My first 3 years were small rig, small water and they were an absolute blast.
Edited by raftman 7/16/2026 2:13 PM
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| I would argue that older musky guys don't help. I have seen a number of posts over the years by young guys asking about what it takes. They make clear they are on a budget and the responses would have you believe you must have four St. Croix Legend Tournament rods for multiple presentations, each with a $400 reel, plus two big boxes of lures. And don't even think about using a little tin boat. Must have a deep V fiberglass boat, and top of the line electronics or you might as well bank fish for bluegills. And that after they say they are on a budget. | |
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Location: Cedarburg, WI. | "but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action."
This makes me sad. I think the internet has ruined musky fishing for new comers. Maybe i read this wrong, but being bummed on chasing mid 30's to low 40's feels wrong.
If your getting into Musky's to chase internet numbers on big waters i feel bad for you.
Edited by Slopski 7/16/2026 2:50 PM
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Location: Duluth | Literally some of the best days of my life were spent on Lake Vermilion in a beat to heck 16ft superhawk with a terribly running merc 50. Didn't stop us from putting fish in the boat, didn't have a pot to pee in. Fishing what structure you can, when you can is also a great teacher...found a lot of spots because the wind and waves kept us contained to certain areas. | |
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| I guess if your baby food was served in a silver spoon, a $5000 tin boat is "trash." I know a number of kids who saved their night crawler and de-tasseling money and were proud as heck, of their "trash boat." And they were tickled to catch a 42" fish. If you think catching a 36 inch pike is the same as catching a 36 inch muskie, you just don't get it. You fish for muskies because they are hard to catch and you don't catch a lot of them. Muskie fishing isn't dying, it's growing. Young people are taking it up all the time. Money is not a barrier. It's the engagement on older communication platforms that are down. More spread out to various other places. What some people don't get, is that muskie fishing isn't how you start fishing, unless you are born into a muskie fishing family. You graduate to muskie fishing. You get tired of the ease of bass fishing. You get to the point that you can catch walleye on pretty much any body of water that has them, even when others are struggling. You need a new challenge. You either pick up muskie fishing or fly fishing, or both. You catch that first fish, and you knees wobble, and that's it. Your hooked. I wouldn't want muskie fishing to be any easier. What would be the point? Once you've caught enough 4 footers, you don't really care what size they are anymore. It's the chase. A 40" fish on a small low density lake is just as big of a deal as a 50' fish on Green Bay. Takes the same or more skill. It's just not for everyone. I've had friends who really like to fish, and I've taken them many times in my nice boat, with nice gear, and put them on fish. They still didn't get into it. They don't like how much work it is and how you don't catch a bunch of them in a day. And, as others have said, if you want information, use the search. Top notch sticks have answered pretty much every question you can think of, on this site.
Edited by TCESOX 7/16/2026 5:31 PM
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| Again, the minimum recommended gear to target this species is going to run $600. Saying money is not a barrier is ignoring the reality of current affairs for youth in America. | |
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| Tyendinaga - 7/16/2026 7:20 PM
Again, the minimum recommended gear to target this species is going to run $600. Saying money is not a barrier is ignoring the reality of current affairs for youth in America.
Recommended by who? I would never recommend a beginner spend that kind of money just to get started. You wait until you are addicted before you do that.
Why is the reality of the current affairs for youth in America any different than in the past? Unemployment rate is lower than in the past. Interest rates aren't anywhere near as high as they have been in the past. I don't see any lines to gas at the gas station. Inflation isn't as bad as it has been in the past. Nobody is worried about being drafted into the military. Seems to me there are some pretty unrealistic expectations as to how good things should be, by the youth in America. | |
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| What do the younger generation all do? They snap photo's on their phones and post the pictures. You don't find many pictures here because the holier than tho crowd rips the poster to shreds. That fish is smaller than you claim, you aren't handling it correctly, what release tools do you have, why are you holding the fish like that blah, blah, blah. Muskie fisherman are as welcoming as a NBA team at a klan rally. The last place I would post a photo is here, and I'm an old guy who doesn't care what anybody thinks. Go back 5-10 years and look for yourselves. | |
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| TCESOX - 7/16/2026 7:46 PM
Tyendinaga - 7/16/2026 7:20 PM
Again, the minimum recommended gear to target this species is going to run $600. Saying money is not a barrier is ignoring the reality of current affairs for youth in America.
Recommended by who? I would never recommend a beginner spend that kind of money just to get started. You wait until you are addicted before you do that.
Why is the reality of the current affairs for youth in America any different than in the past? Unemployment rate is lower than in the past. Interest rates aren't anywhere near as high as they have been in the past. I don't see any lines to gas at the gas station. Inflation isn't as bad as it has been in the past. Nobody is worried about being drafted into the military. Seems to me there are some pretty unrealistic expectations as to how good things should be, by the youth in America.
I am getting weary of young adults talking about how easy the Boomers had it. Yeah, we went to high schools designed for half the number of students. The college I entered in 1969 had twice the students it had in 1964. And when you did get a degree, the employer got a hundred apps from other recent grads. Yes houses were cheaper but interest rates were double and in some cases triple what they are now. My first year in banking, 1981, fixed rate 30 year was 16.5%. So yes, houses were cheaper because virtually no one could afford a mortgage. | |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | 1984, we signed on to a 13.5% 3-year adjustable 25 yr. mortgage. The kind loan officer explained that likely we would be paying $100,000 more in interest than what we borrowed. Dang if we didn't pull it off, tho! m | |
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Location: WI | Went on my old employers website to see what a starting wage for the role I had back in 2006 when I graduated from college. It was $21 when I started. It’s $40 now. There are great income opportunities for young adults today. Wages haven’t been flat. It feels ominous starting out to every generation. You are just being told how bad you have it more than previous generations. You’ll be fine. | |
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| I am not bashing today's youth. I have met some amazing young people, and seen many features extolling the talents and drive of younger folks. If they are the ones that end up running things, we are in good hands. It's just that there also, is little perspective for many of them. When I graduated college, the unemployment rate was almost double what it is today. And yes, the house I bought almost 35 years ago, was a little less than $100,000. The job I had at that time paid a little less than $35,000. If I were to sell that house today, I would get about $300,000. That same job I had at that time, would have a starting pay of over $85,000 today. When my great uncle went to the same college I did, it cost about the same as a new Buick. 25 years later, when my mom went to that same college, it cost about the same as a new Buick. 25 years later when I went to that college, it cost about the same as a new Buick. And today, that school charges about the same as the cost of a new Buick. The more things change, the more they stay the same. | |
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Location: Brighton CO. | First thing, Steve runs a tight ship! It's a great place to talk and have fun, but bad mouth other users or drag too much politics you'll be blackballed or disabled in a heartbeat. (that's a good thing) Question is why do we long in? For me the time on the water is short, so it's looking forward to the next trip or thinking fondly of the last. | |
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| TCESOX - 7/17/2026 8:05 AM
I am not bashing today's youth. I have met some amazing young people, and seen many features extolling the talents and drive of younger folks. If they are the ones that end up running things, we are in good hands. It's just that there also, is little perspective for many of them. When I graduated college, the unemployment rate was almost double what it is today. And yes, the house I bought almost 35 years ago, was a little less than $100,000. The job I had at that time paid a little less than $35,000. If I were to sell that house today, I would get about $300,000. That same job I had at that time, would have a starting pay of over $85,000 today. When my great uncle went to the same college I did, it cost about the same as a new Buick. 25 years later, when my mom went to that same college, it cost about the same as a new Buick. 25 years later when I went to that college, it cost about the same as a new Buick. And today, that school charges about the same as the cost of a new Buick. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
TCESOX,
In the example you give you show the exact sentiment you are claiming is a farse. If you bought a house for under $100,000 back then, let's say $90,000 for example and you can sell it now for $300,000 then inflation over that period for a house is 300/90=3.33 but your starting salary only inflated 85/35=2.42 so there's a disparity in which housing prices have inflated as compared to wages. And you can read many articles stating the same thing about wages vs. cost of living. I think this hobby in general has progressed similarly. Just go and look at lure prices they've changed for the worse in the last ten years and well outpaced inflation during this time. Just because a New Buick and College Tuition cost the same about 60 years ago for one particular college does not mean that wage inflation has kept up with all the other millions of things you need to pay for as you grow up. Correlation is not causation. Housing, healthcare, and (in fact) college tuition are all vastly more expensive today and have outpaced wage inflation. And this isn't hearsay; there are multiple published studies around the subject readily available. When you say our generation has no perspective, I encourage you to put yourself in our shoes and you may find that you are in fact the one missing the perspective.
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Location: Springfield, IL | I appreciate that this forum exists and have to admit that there have been times when I stop by to search one specific lure or situation, and I don't always log in if I don't have my password handy. So some of the guests may be users who didn't log in, like me in those cases. I'll try to be better about logging in. I too have benefited from not only the forum posts here but direct DMs from other users on how to modify a bait, etc. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Some folks blame the internet. This IS the internet. | |
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| Hey folks, a couple of observations. Thank you Steve for continuing to run this for all our enjoyment. At the end of the day I think this thread proves the point it’s all about personal choices. Ie; fishing out of a ranger boat loaded with latest electronics plus six Thorne bros custom rods vs used 16” aluminum with 25hp engine, or shore fishing! I’ve been blessed to be at this game a long time, my current and favorite rod/reel combo is: Shimano Curado 300 on and 8’6” Diawa ProRex rod, w 65# tuff line, with 124# solid steel leader i make myself. Under $400 if you shop wisely. Not intended to toss pounders & double tens all day, but solid for the other 80% of lures most folks use. So maybe instead of dismissing someone else’s perspective (too expensive, too cheap, under 40”, over 50”), soak it all in, and see how it might make you a happier, better fisherman! | |
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Posts: 7144
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | You'd be amazed how many evenings myself and Steve W have talked into the night about why we don't see the posting we did, why the "community" we had kind of melted away.
Personal feeling: Facebook is more attractive than forums. Why go to one page for one type of info when there's a platform with the ability to see ANYTHING with a few clicks. Videos galore, arguments fed by algorithms allowing people to be that "internet persona" that may or may not match who they really are. Cool stuff flashed before your eyes, a topic is yelled about for a day, then on to the next outrage. I can't be totally wrong, just look at any public place: heads down, reading your phone.
MuskieFIRST was different (I like to think): fighting had to be "civilized", being a "richard" got you deleted or banned (probably still people who hate me and Worrall for this), and threads would last days (if not weeks, years - hey some still get a little love) with the same "core" groups that "seemed" to be open to learning and sharing info. BSTs (BS theories) were debated, I THINK few people took something from it.
We had online chats with guest speakers, Matchfishing, photo sections, etc. etc. Some of these stuff appealed to people, others (blogs) no one used. There really hadn't been a place to do that, heck the internet wasnt nearly where it is now. Other sites popped up, offered different "approaches", some of which we learned from, others we realized we never wanted to do.
Then Facebook gave all of this, in a way, across the world to everyone. So I think that is much more "attractive" versus a circa 2007 UI that we still have. Even at our MOST busy reading every thread was a couple hours' endeavour, and while there was always some political or sports bs in the basement, it was all muskies. FB gives the chance to do the same, but you'll never find the end.
AND, in the end....this place slowed down because of all of us. I'm sure most of the "long timers" can see when I or Worrall are starting a threat to just "get people talking". Forcing our voices (though we probably did and still do use this too often and for the wrong purpose) was never what this was about, it was about everyone having the ability to ask a question, start a topic. and others would dive in to help, disagree, whatever. But everyone stopped this, for the reasons above, and Steve and I never really dedicated time/effort/money to "beat social" with new features that would have matched FB/IG/Insta, etc.
We're still here (amazingly), a lot greyer and older, but if people wanted to start using this again, we'd love to see the community come back. But, you can't force it.
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Posts: 179
| I've only been fishing a few years, but here are a couple of my thoughts:
1. The search function allows me to find many threads on the topic I want to talk about. Not using the search function is a great way to get roasted. Posting redundant threads is quickly called out.
2. I've quickly learned that talking about how to fish is a hell of a lot less effective than just getting out there and taking my lumps.
3. Facebook is an utter cesspool and I deleted my account a decade ago. This place would work for many of us, but the simple fact is that so much has already been discussed and I don't have a ton to add to the discusssion. | |
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Posts: 1853
| I don't think many over 50 prefer Facebook over the forums such as here. If anybody wants to learn anything about Muskie fishing this is the place. However you may take your lumps from some here who think they invented Muskie fishing. The other thing that bothers me is the constant beating on people who post a photo who might not have the perfect hold on the fish. If I caught a 65" fish I wouldn't post a photo here......just saying.
It's a good resource for infomation and if a person lasts long enough to get a PM the info will flow. Stay humble and stay persistent. | |
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Posts: 710
Location: Duluth | Just picked up a 97 Tuffy Esox ltd as a project boat, was inspired by Jr's 50K mark to see how cheap I could assemble a rig that allows me to chase big fish. With the states budget of 50k I could buy 9 more rigs after this one. Everything works as it should, a guy could go use it this afternoon if they wanted to.
Im going to paint, rewire and maybe put new carpet in it this winter because I always wondered what a Tuffy would look like in Off white AwlGrip with blue lettering | |
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| I'm glad it's still here. It's the closest thing to "social media" I'll ever do. Would not have time to do anything else, and would not want to, from what I've heard. | |
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Location: Bloomington, MN | I'm sorry I started this. MuskieFirst has been a fun part of my life. I've meet great people through this forum, and my MF jacket still fits me. Is there still a chance to get hats or bumper stickers? | |
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| CincySkeez - 7/20/2026 7:04 PM
Just picked up a 97 Tuffy Esox ltd as a project boat, was inspired by Jr's 50K mark to see how cheap I could assemble a rig that allows me to chase big fish. With the states budget of 50k I could buy 9 more rigs after this one. Everything works as it should, a guy could go use it this afternoon if they wanted to.
Im going to paint, rewire and maybe put new carpet in it this winter because I always wondered what a Tuffy would look like in Off white AwlGrip with blue lettering
Still gotta have a truck to tow it, insurance to cover it, gas to drive it, and time to do it SR. Maybe one day the older generation will listen when they ask why something is dying instead of just talking over others saying they're inherently wrong. You ask why the forum is dying and the younger generation tells you the exact reason and then you say what we're saying isn't true, yet we are the ones experiencing it. Some people just can't be helped...sigh | |
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| It's been really disappointing to see the responses to MNMuskie's perspectives as well as my own, to say the least. | |
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| Tyendinaga - 7/21/2026 9:28 AM
It's been really disappointing to see the responses to MNMuskie's perspectives as well as my own, to say the least.
inter-generational peeing contests will always be a thing, unfortunately. They do it to us and we will more than likely do it to the generations that follow us. There are plenty of us that recognize the challenges presented to would be musky anglers' pocketbooks. I don't know how we deal with it, tbh. | |
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Location: Duluth | SouthernMNMuskie - 7/21/2026 8:15 AM
CincySkeez - 7/20/2026 7:04 PM
Just picked up a 97 Tuffy Esox ltd as a project boat, was inspired by Jr's 50K mark to see how cheap I could assemble a rig that allows me to chase big fish. With the states budget of 50k I could buy 9 more rigs after this one. Everything works as it should, a guy could go use it this afternoon if they wanted to.
Im going to paint, rewire and maybe put new carpet in it this winter because I always wondered what a Tuffy would look like in Off white AwlGrip with blue lettering
Still gotta have a truck to tow it, insurance to cover it, gas to drive it, and time to do it SR. Maybe one day the older generation will listen when they ask why something is dying instead of just talking over others saying they're inherently wrong. You ask why the forum is dying and the younger generation tells you the exact reason and then you say what we're saying isn't true, yet we are the ones experiencing it. Some people just can't be helped...sigh
I hear you, I still feel like a young angler and I have been musky fishing for almost 20 years. It is a pursuit that has always required a great deal of sacrifice, this isn't the part where I tell you to save harder because I know it sucks out there. Making a living isn't as easy as it was when I was coming out of college in the tail of GFC. At least houses were cheap, for my generation.
But the musky fishing opportunities closest to you only exist because of the hard work of many young and old guys. Guys who would sometimes only get to fish musky once or twice a year if they took at trip to LOTW or somewhere in Wisconsin. Thats it, and they did it out of tin boats and shoe string budgets with old equipment. Most of them thought "how can we bring this closer to home and to more people. What can we do to help spread the gospel."
Now, I fear there's a lack of respect for fisheries and the pursuit. No social knowledge of how things were built or why, "it's just a crappy low density fishery." Is the flip side of the internet I guess.
P.S. owning a boat over 19 feet is more trouble than it's worth anyway. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It can be done by pretty much anyone out there who wants it badly enough. My son is self-employed building lures and guiding, and he has all the gear and a 19' Lund with a buck and a half. He runs a 2015 Dodge pickup. He catches a lot of fish of all species on his lures, and they are getting popular. He certainly isn't getting rich, but he's doing OK.
I made a living for 4o plus years selling boats as an independent rep. It was the only job I could think of at the time. Then one of the guys I sold a Tuffy to suggested I help him with Walleye Central to get muskie guys in there. Neither one of us got paid for a long time, so we decided to start OFM. That was about 23 years ago. Does it make a living for anyone? No, not even close, but that is my fault for not trying to sell what we offer. At 73, the selling fire is flickering out. I'll probably never really retire, but I'm not spending my days on the phone and road like I used to.
Yet here we are still. I make my living managing social media for a dozen outdoors industry clients. I work with some really great people in the business and consider myself really lucky. Interestingly, the skill set is the same as it took to get OFM popular... community management.
It's expensive keeping this place online, but so far it's paid for itself. | |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | SouthernMNMuskie - 7/16/2026 11:12 AM
I find it funny that everyone is attacking the money aspect on it when that is the exact reason my friends don't muskie fish. I have asked my friends. We do talk every once in a while (even face-to-face if you would believe it). Mille Lacs, Vermillion, LOTW, Leech, Cass, Minnetonka are all huge lakes that require a little more than a 16ft boat. Yes, you can fish the small lakes in Southern MN just fine with a 16ft boat pulled by a SUV (look at used car prices, still very expensive) but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action.
I see how you may think it costs less than that to get into the sport but in reality, it IS that much. You can't expect any sane person (even the type that wants to muskie fish) to drop 10k for a trash setup that lets you fish small southern MN lakes for low density fish.
I also find it funny the older generation always blames phones, attention spans, and lack of ambition for why hobbies are dying out. No, it's the fact that a double cowgirl is the same cost as two hours at most kids' minimum wage job haha. Not everyone lived in a time where college was cheap, you could buy a house for $100K, and your state pension and social security could allow you to safely float through retirement. Yes, the younger generations are far from perfect and have their problems but accessibility and barriers to entry are to blame along with the surly gatekeepers of information that refuse to help anyone out. I'm all for putting in the work and figuring it out yourself but just remember someone taught all of you to walk, talk, and read. But maybe I'm just wrong and "spoon fed" for realizing that I was fortunate enough to have someone help me get into the sport.
I went back and read this. Can't say you're wrong.
What I think is too bad is that there aren't older fishers out there wanting to take newer fishers out fishing. We ALL had that guy that had a boat before we could afford one. But honestly, wouldnt surprise me one bit with the rise of the elitist attitudes by many in muskies, that no one is helping anyone get on the water. | |
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Location: Germantown, WI | Yeah I have been around here for just over 20 years and it was awesome, so much sharing of information, new posts, etc. I hardly come out here myself much, because when I look at what is new in terms of posts, things being discussed, sold, ect... not much has been added from the last time I visited the site a few weeks prior. And I used to visit at minimum once a day and sometimes twice.
I used to sell and buy a lot of lures here, but i stopped listing about 2 years ago. Seems like little interest from anyone (and I have nice stuff), so i just moved to Facebook ( ugh! hate doing it). But I did meet 5-8 good dudes from those transactions that I still text with a few times a year.
with that said, funny enough, I have a few lures I was looking to move- as I was packing for one of my two Canadian trips this past weekend.
Think I will list them out there for kicks and giggles. I would rather sell to people on this forum, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. but maybe I will be surprised...
Good discussion and makes me realize I need to pop back in a bit more often.
It's unfortunate...
Edited by dward 7/22/2026 4:00 PM
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| That's kind of what soured me on the whole muskie scene. The elitist attitude... You fish trophy waters, you put in 200 days a year. You catch a lot of fish because you basically live on the water. That makes you lucky, it does NOT make you an expert. You're using this and that gear because they guys who make and sell that gear basically handed it to you so you could promote it for them. You're not making a fortune at it, nobody is. You've either got someone else's money to spend or you're poor. Boat and truck parked in the driveway of a house that's worth less that the boat and truck...
That's not to dismiss the level of experience and insight those folks can provide. Not at all. I've fished with a bunch of them, and learned a lot of what I know from my time on the water with them. But from where I sit it's only about 2/10 that actually care about teaching you how to catch more and bigger fish. I've found that the ones with the biggest musky egos to be largely useless at that. You don't need this or that to catch muskies, or catch big muskies. You need solid gear that works, you need a variety of lures to cover different depths and conditions. You need to fish where the fish are. And if you're going to listen to what anybody else says, you need to pay attention to who it is you're listening to. These forums are great for that. The discussions are priceless, especially when folks disagree. | |
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Posts: 580
Location: Germantown, WI | Just saw I had registered on 9/12/2002... coming up on 24 years... Actually on that day this year I will celebrate Muskie 1st as i will be arriving on Eagle Lake that morning!
But serious question, I've been around since 2002... when did the site begin out of curiosity.
Thanks | |
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| dward - 7/22/2026 3:47 PM
Yeah I have been around here for just over 20 years and it was awesome, so much sharing of information, new posts, etc. I hardly come out here myself much, because when I look at what is new in terms of posts, things being discussed, sold, ect... not much has been added from the last time I visited the site a few weeks prior. And I used to visit at minimum once a day and sometimes twice.
I used to sell and buy a lot of lures here, but i stopped listing about 2 years ago. Seems like little interest from anyone (and I have nice stuff), so i just moved to Facebook ( ugh! hate doing it). But I did meet 5-8 good dudes from those transactions that I still text with a few times a year.
with that said, funny enough, I have a few lures I was looking to move- as I was packing for one of my two Canadian trips this past weekend.
Think I will list them out there for kicks and giggles. I would rather sell to people on this forum, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. but maybe I will be surprised...
Good discussion and makes me realize I need to pop back in a bit more often.
It's unfortunate...
You did indeed sell some good stuff, even told a couple of younger anglers to check for your posts. I didn't buy, 'cuz last thing I need is more lures. | |
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Posts: 3936
| In the voice of M. McConaughey.....
"When? When? When. Time's a flat circle, man."
$10 to the first person who names the reference.
I wish I had more to contribute, but I moved way south and all my attention is toward learning walleye in Bull Shoals Lake. I joined and remain loyal to the site because of all the good it does. | |
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Location: WI | Slamr - 7/22/2026 3:01 PM
SouthernMNMuskie - 7/16/2026 11:12 AM
I find it funny that everyone is attacking the money aspect on it when that is the exact reason my friends don't muskie fish. I have asked my friends. We do talk every once in a while (even face-to-face if you would believe it). Mille Lacs, Vermillion, LOTW, Leech, Cass, Minnetonka are all huge lakes that require a little more than a 16ft boat. Yes, you can fish the small lakes in Southern MN just fine with a 16ft boat pulled by a SUV (look at used car prices, still very expensive) but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action.
I see how you may think it costs less than that to get into the sport but in reality, it IS that much. You can't expect any sane person (even the type that wants to muskie fish) to drop 10k for a trash setup that lets you fish small southern MN lakes for low density fish.
I also find it funny the older generation always blames phones, attention spans, and lack of ambition for why hobbies are dying out. No, it's the fact that a double cowgirl is the same cost as two hours at most kids' minimum wage job haha. Not everyone lived in a time where college was cheap, you could buy a house for $100K, and your state pension and social security could allow you to safely float through retirement. Yes, the younger generations are far from perfect and have their problems but accessibility and barriers to entry are to blame along with the surly gatekeepers of information that refuse to help anyone out. I'm all for putting in the work and figuring it out yourself but just remember someone taught all of you to walk, talk, and read. But maybe I'm just wrong and "spoon fed" for realizing that I was fortunate enough to have someone help me get into the sport.
I went back and read this. Can't say you're wrong.
What I think is too bad is that there aren't older fishers out there wanting to take newer fishers out fishing. We ALL had that guy that had a boat before we could afford one. But honestly, wouldnt surprise me one bit with the rise of the elitist attitudes by many in muskies, that no one is helping anyone get on the water.
Would the boat be big enough or the fishery have enough 50’s if those elitist musky folks offered? Joking…Kind of. | |
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Posts: 23
| Raftman, you're again missing my point. I'm not saying anyone needs a 21-foot yar craft or to only be able to fish on waters with 50" muskies all year long. I'm saying, if you want to not waste your time you should probably get something that can handle larger waters (where the MN DNR primarily stocks muskies or are native). There's no reason to risk life and limb in a 16' pond hopper chasing muskies. Believe me I have been there. I grew up fishing in a 1976 Lund Tri Haul that was bright turquoise and so #*^@ ugly it turned heads for the wrong reason (look it up). The reason we finally got a new boat is because we almost died fishing Wakemup Bay on Vermillion in the fall when the waves started lapping over the transom and we started taking on water like a sieve. It's not that you need to have a guide level setup, but it should be safe enough to take out 90% of days on water that can produce a couple quality fish in a week. | |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I think the boat debate has a different answer for everyone.
I kayak ponds and rivers near me because the lakes are at least an hour.
I use my Tuffy on Lake Michigan to smaller lakes when Mother Nature allows. BUT, MOST days I can't go out because I'd die or at least have no fun fishing while avoiding dying. Same reason I won't plan a trip on St. Clair with my little 1760.
You buy as much as you can to fit as much as you can!
Do you have to get an $80K superboat, nah, but it definitely makes the day better. I love fishing with my little tupperware (though it is pretty pimped out) and I love fishing out of my obscenly over pimped 20 yr old boat....but I'd love a 21'er if anyone is giving them away!
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Location: Rochester, New York | Financial reasons, other people on the water not fishing ruining things for everyone (was trolling one time and had someone on a jet ski come right next to us like she was trying to run over the planer board and was fishing in a small boat yesterday and had someone go flying down the lake twice and stop right next to us and turn around go back down and do it again), wake propulsion boats destroying spots, tournaments, etc | |
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Location: Rochester, New York | Slopski - 7/16/2026 3:48 PM
"but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action."
This makes me sad. I think the internet has ruined musky fishing for new comers. Maybe i read this wrong, but being bummed on chasing mid 30's to low 40's feels wrong.
If your getting into Musky's to chase internet numbers on big waters i feel bad for you.
I think stocked fish kind of does ruin the thrill a little (not in natural areas helping the populations rebound) as example compare Waneta Lake to the St Lawrence River | |
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Posts: 113
| I hesitated to come back to this thread but decided to in the event other young fisherman are viewing. Regarding the boat need, I stumbled across a Woods and Waters episode the other night from 1992 with Gillespie and Maina. It appeared to me Pete was fishing out of a Tuffy Esox Magnum with a 60hp Evinrude. That was a popular muskie fishing boat in WI at the time. I do not know the exact specs on the boat but I would think it no more than 17ft and does not look like like a steep dead rise. Maybe Pete never left Hayward back then but on the episode they were catching muskies. Recon has taken up making this boat again and I did look one up. I would not call it inexpensive although a very nice boat.
For comparison, I then went to Tracker boats and saw the Super Guide V16T. This boat is of a similar type and size that I mentioned I took all over everywhere and managed some big fish back in the '80s-90s. $14,995 with a 25hp and a bow mounted trolling motor. $15k is not a small amount either but that is the price brand new. Easily towable.
Made a few trips to Eagle Lake in the '80s walleye fishing and used camp boats. The camp boats were 16 footers with bench seats and 20hp motors. Those were typical at the Canadian lodges back then. Does one need to know how to navigate and use good sense? Well yes. But I would like to stress that one does not need a 621 to put a 40lber in the boat. | |
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Location: WI | SouthernMNMuskie - 7/23/2026 11:01 AM
I'm saying, if you want to not waste your time you should probably get something that can handle larger waters (where the MN DNR primarily stocks muskies or are native).
It's not that you need to have a guide level setup, but it should be safe enough to take out 90% of days on water that can produce a couple quality fish in a week.
You have been trying to argue that affordability is the barrier for today’s young people yet your expectations reflect something that has never been affordable to young people starting out. What generation had 20 year olds buying 17 footers without mom and dad doing the buying or taking on bad debt?
I would also add that your dismissive nature towards the opportunities that are available to folks with smaller rigs may be a better indicator of the challenges fishing in general faces with today’s youth.
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| raftman - 7/24/2026 11:36 AM
SouthernMNMuskie - 7/23/2026 11:01 AM
I'm saying, if you want to not waste your time you should probably get something that can handle larger waters (where the MN DNR primarily stocks muskies or are native).
It's not that you need to have a guide level setup, but it should be safe enough to take out 90% of days on water that can produce a couple quality fish in a week.
You have been trying to argue that affordability is the barrier for today’s young people yet your expectations reflect something that has never been affordable to young people starting out. What generation had 20 year olds buying 17 footers without mom and dad doing the buying or taking on bad debt?
I would also add that your dismissive nature towards the opportunities that are available to folks with smaller rigs may be a better indicator of the challenges fishing in general faces with today’s youth.
"What generation had 20-year-olds buying 17 footers": I never made the case that any generation was. I was making the case that muskie fishing requires a large capital investment, which is now exasperated by the fact that our generation is plagued by inflation out pacing nominal wage growth. Again, it isn't that I'm making some claim that every 20-year-old should be able to buy a large boat. I'm making the claim that coupled with higher living expenses many younger fishermen are staying away from the sport in favor of lower barrier to entry options.
As to my dismissive nature, I'll let you think what you want. I've fished in a small boat for most of my life until recently. Bought my 1976 lund at 16 for $3K using the money I saved from walking beans and detasseling corn for three summers. Believe me I know the options available with smaller rigs haha. I fished every muskie lake south of Mille Lacs with that thing. But when my dad finally broke down and bought a 18-footer, man did we catch more fish:
- No more fishing with one hand because I had a transom mount trolling motor with a handle.
- No more wasting two days of vacation because the wind started gusting and you got blown off the lake.
-No more hand winching the boat onto the trailer on a windy day because your motor didn't have tilt or trim.
But maybe I don't know the opportunities presented to me... | |
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| And there we have it. You were talking about "entry costs', and using costs of non-entry, but avid. Entry costs are not too high, as you know through your experience. The costs escalate rapidly, once you become an avid angler. However, these are not "entry costs." That is the point we have been trying to make, while you have sounded like someone shouldn't even try to get into the sport if they can't afford a big boat and truck and drive long distances to prime muskie waters. The entry point, is an inexpensive boat that you can tow with the vehicles you have or can afford, along with used rods, reels, and lures, which are quite affordable, and you go to the nearest waters that hold muskies. We are all better fishers for having struggled with limited equipment in difficult conditions. We are better at handling boats, and we are better at using all of our equipment. It's really off putting when you use terms like "trash boat" and dismiss smaller fish and smaller waters, as unworthy. Nice big boats, top end gear, and elite waters, are not the norm for many muskie fishers. | |
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| Ranger - 7/22/2026 6:47 PM
In the voice of M. McConaughey.....
"When? When? When. Time's a flat circle, man."
$10 to the first person who names the reference.
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I only know this through Nietzsche. I have no idea how it relates to Mathew McConaughey. | |
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Location: SW Ohio | Was surprised to see an older Tuffy for sale at a business next to the highway (might have been on 70 between Eagle River and Minocqua) last week. Looked to be 17' but not sure of the condition. Didn't stop to look at it as I have a boat already. Looked to be an ideal size for all the lakes up there if someone was looking to get into the sport. Don't see any of them around here.
Edited by OH Musky 7/26/2026 3:09 PM
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Location: E. Tenn | OH Musky - 7/26/2026 4:08 PM
Was surprised to see an older Tuffy for sale at a business next to the highway (might have been on 70 between Eagle River and Minocqua) last week. Looked to be 17' but not sure of the condition. Didn't stop to look at it as I have a boat already. Looked to be an ideal size for all the lakes up there if someone was looking to get into the sport. Don't see any of them around here.
In early June there was an Esox Ltd. at the end of someone's driveway on US-45 between Eagle River and Three Lakes.. It looked to be well cared for. The price must've been right cuz it wasn't there long.
There were also quite a few 14' V-bottoms for sale in the area, many with motors and at some pretty reasonable prices. Everone I know, including myself started out in similar rigs, and caught fish.
Edited by miket55 7/26/2026 5:25 PM
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| TCESOX - 7/24/2026 5:53 PM
Ranger - 7/22/2026 6:47 PM
In the voice of M. McConaughey.....
"When? When? When. Time's a flat circle, man."
$10 to the first person who names the reference.
.
I only know this through Nietzsche. I have no idea how it relates to Mathew McConaughey.
True Detective Season 1. One of the best seasons of a tv show ever. | |
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| ECP1989 - 7/14/2026 2:59 PM
Lots of groups on Facebook I’m guessing. Easier to access and make posts.
AGREED - this is the issue not less anglers just easier access (for some) on Facebook
Also if the forum was on the taps talk app that would help. Althe adds and pop up here have gotten terrible
Edited by T3clay 7/27/2026 10:13 AM
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| bloatlord - 7/26/2026 9:56 PM
TCESOX - 7/24/2026 5:53 PM
Ranger - 7/22/2026 6:47 PM
In the voice of M. McConaughey.....
"When? When? When. Time's a flat circle, man."
$10 to the first person who names the reference.
.
I only know this through Nietzsche. I have no idea how it relates to Mathew McConaughey.
True Detective Season 1. One of the best seasons of a tv show ever.
Ding! Ding! Ding! PM your home addy and I'll send the money. Well done! | |
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Posts: 62
| As I look back at my personal muskie history, I started out by buying a 16' flat bottom boat with a 20 HP Spirit engine for $1500.00 back in 1988. I worked summers and during school, and also my parents helped me pay for my education, so I was fortunate that way. I had this boat while I was in college at UW Stevens Point. When I graduated 1990, we pulled this boat to Northen Manitoba 2 times. We then decided we would go to LOTW with it 2 more times with the same boat and fish solely for muskies. And we have been going to Canada ever since just muskie fishing. Those first 2 years, we fished out of Witch Bay camp so it was a bit more protected than other areas of LOTW can be. The only thing that limited us was that we could not travel as far as a lot of other camp boats as the engine was a definite limitation. I sold the flat bottom to a friend who now lives in Wausau. The flat bottom boat is still in commission as a Wis River boat. I upgraded to a 17.5' Lakeland with a 50 HP Merc which I purchased for $4500.00. Less trade in, I paid $3200.00 for it. I customized the Lakeland into a solid muskie boat. Electronics were a bit weak, but I added wave wackers to the back, put on a 24V troller, and made sure the boat was as open as I could make it. I took this boat to Canada at least a dozen times. I also fished Cass regularly for about 7 years on most weekends in July and August. I also fished Vermillion and Mille Lacs a dozen times. I had that boat for about 20 years before I sold it. I then bought a Champion 19'6" with a 200HP Merc for $7500.00 and after trade in, I paid like $4500.00 for that boat. Believe it or not, that boat was too big for what I wanted to do. My plan was to learn Green Bay and fish there. However, that boat did not fit in my garage like the Lakeland did, so we had to park our vehicles outside. It also cost a lot more to do the upkeep and maintenance that I manually did on the Lakeland. I sold it like 4 years ago after some life events happened where things took priority over having the bigger boat. They actually took priority over having a boat at all! The priority of spending a lot of money on a boat certainly changed as well. But moving forward, I found another Lakleland that I will be purchasing next month from a buddy in Minnesota who has one. Yup, I am going back to my roots of owning a smaller boat. In my years of taking the Lakeland to Canada and competing against the other boats in our group, I never felt undermanned or undergunned. Sure my 2 brothers and their Rangers and larger boats could get to spots faster! Sure, they could fish more comfortably and handle larger waves! Sure, they had some advantages I did not have. However, after our week of muskie chasing was done, our boat ended up catching as many - if not more muskies over 40" than the other boats in our group. The size of the boat really did not make that much difference as I had to focus on fishing areas that I could and fishing them more thorough. The only thing I wanted to point out was that the size of the boat did not guarantee any muskie success or lack thereof. I could go on and on and on... I have been unsuccessful fishing out of a Ranger as well as fishing out of the old Lakeland. I have also been successful fishing out of the Lakeland as much as I would have had fishing out of a Ranger. While having a larger boat helps make it more comfortable, it does not guarantee any muskie success. | |
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Posts: 179
| Ranger - 7/27/2026 11:51 AM
bloatlord - 7/26/2026 9:56 PM
TCESOX - 7/24/2026 5:53 PM
Ranger - 7/22/2026 6:47 PM
In the voice of M. McConaughey.....
"When? When? When. Time's a flat circle, man."
$10 to the first person who names the reference.
.
I only know this through Nietzsche. I have no idea how it relates to Mathew McConaughey.
True Detective Season 1. One of the best seasons of a tv show ever.
Ding! Ding! Ding! PM your home addy and I'll send the money. Well done!
ADVOCADO TOAST HERE I COME | |
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Posts: 1722
Location: Brighton CO. | Well 50 years ago at this time I became a muskie fishermen. My grandparents invited me to come up and spend the summer on the lake in Eagle River area of Wisconsin. I stayed home for the first half of the summer to take drivers ED in high school.
I would end up a half summer in 76, and full summer in both 77 and 78 and a month in 79 after I got out of high school.
I had a old glass Bass fishing rod I found in my grandpa's garage and put my grandma's old Ambaassadeur 5000 with some old black line. I found some old Muskies lures in the garage too. a old Suick, a Plueger Globe, a smaller Pikie Minnow, Burmek B-1 and a Burmek surface lure, Johnson Silver minnows and a brand new Bobbiebait. My grandpa was friends with Pop Dean so I had one of his Masterbaits (I hardly thru his lure and still have it in my collection) no hook rash and will never see the water again. I fished out of a old 1950's era wooden row boat that leaked. (it was the barefoot boat) It was a Thompson or a Rhinelander. Crossroads store in Eagle River had a close out sale and I bought some broom stick glass rod for 16 bucks. I caught a 22.5 inch Northern on my Bobbiebait on my new rod. Talk about being happy. The next summer I would catch my first two Muskies on this rod. My grandparent had a 14 foot old iron boat and 12 foot row boat. When we moved to Colorado we had a Canoe then me brought back the 12 foot row boat then I moved up to a 14 and replaced the 4 horse with a 15 mecury. Then later my dad got 1 17 foot Starcraft. My grandpa has been dead for 40 years my grandma 30 and my dad has been gone for ten. We no longer have any boats but at least I still have the 15 horse Mec. While staying up north with the grandparents I would have to buy lures and sneak them home my grandpa you don't need any baits. If he saw all the stuff I have now .... | |
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Posts: 719
Location: Livin on a Prayer. | Clark A - 7/14/2026 12:23 AM
I understand times have changed, but the drop from 10+ years ago on viewers and posts doesn't make sense to me. I understand about the sharing of hot bites. This site did probably put 10+ boats extra on Vineland Bay or on Vermilion, but those days are pretty much over. We had league fishing teams many moons ago. Lots O Fun! Now it is crickets minus a couple of us old guys yapping about the past. Subscribe, and add content.
This site had quite a cast of characters back in the day. Some, the best in the business. Others offered great advice, mixed with great comedic content as well.
A daily soap opera at times.
It's changed.
A few remain, you know who you are, lol.
What the heck happened indeed. But it's still a good source of info and a good place to visit occasionally. Thanks to the guys involved, for sure.
A tip of the cap here.
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Posts: 710
Location: Duluth | Interesting read. A little red meat for each age group here
https://open.substack.com/pub/loosecannon/p/is-boating-becoming-too-... | |
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| CincySkeez - 8/3/2026 2:51 PM
Interesting read. A little red meat for each age group here
https://open.substack.com/pub/loosecannon/p/is-boating-becoming-too-...
Some time during COVID boat prices went nuts. Demand was high and supply did not keep up. Seems in looking at used boat prices that may have modified a bit. One of my fishing partners is, like everybody, is much younger than me and when he told me what he paid for his Impact back in 2024 it was all I could do not let my mouth drop open. This spring I put a new 9" Explore on my bow after my Helix took a dump. The guy at Northland Marine talked about how much it costs today to put electronics on a boat. He has been at it a long time but just shook his head. | |
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Posts: 793
| These guys don't need a boat. Shoreline Anglers on u tube,check it out. Kdawg | |
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Posts: 1941
Location: Black Creek, WI | Interesting discussion. I think the answer to why there is less activity on this site today vs. 20 years ago is pretty simple. 20+ years ago there was very little information available specific to musky fishing. Heck, before Musky Hunter Magazine came out you were lucky to find a handful of magazine articles about musky fishing. Only a few books available too. The internet gave access to more information. Those passionate about the sport had a strong thirst for knowledge and were willing to share what they knew in exchange for something they didn't. It made better anglers. Today, there is a wealth of information available online. What took me 40 years to master, can now be learned in a 5 minute search on YouTube. I'm glad to have experienced the pinnacle of this site's activity level. It was educational and entertaining. Certainly helped me elevate my game. | |
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Posts: 710
Location: Duluth | It used to be about fun, now we have a bunch of metrics to grade our fishing, boating, camping or whatever experience. Most of the good stories from musky trips have little to do with fish caught. | |
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Posts: 7144
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | CincySkeez - 8/4/2026 10:07 AM
It used to be about fun, now we have a bunch of metrics to grade our fishing, boating, camping or whatever experience. Most of the good stories from musky trips have little to do with fish caught.
I think as muskie hunting has gone from a crazy pursuit by a smaller community of young bucks and old heads....to a social media/interweb/part of the marketing/fb algorithm, the measures are different.
Think about it, 1997, you had 8 guys you somehow know who muskie fish (unless you lived near great muskies, this was probably it) plus a magazine and maybe a couple articles here and there. More mystique, and it really WAS harder to catch a fish (less fisheries, gear, information, electronics, and the fishing wasnt as good as it is now!) and the knowledge that catching a giant everyday was just silliness.
BUT NOW: you can see 20 giants caught everyday if you tune in the Book of Faces. Information on where and when is everywhere on the internet. Rods/reels/baits are sooooo much better and more reliable. Electronics can shorten the curve from years to a couple days on a new body of water.
So I feel like all the above brought on not only growth in persons to the sport, but gave more people a platform for whaterver their purpose is (monetary, personal) to show off their succcess. I think to be a dedicated muskie fisherman, you have to have a (stupid) innate drive to want to do this stupid S89t everyday. That drive turns, for some, into competition and comparing what is right and what is wrong.
PERSONALLY, I'm old and burned out on life, going to watch MY BOBBER and try to stay out of the how, why, how big, when bs of comparing one muskie whatever (person/technique) to another.
And me versus others:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2FGRVRzXZM | |
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Posts: 2117
| I’m 6’1… so probably just slightly above average- ha! The mystique has definitely wore off for me and I assume many that were very active when this site was at its peak for traffic, (probably mid-late 2000’s?) muskies are a cool fish…but at the end of the day still just a fish. I actually enjoy and find myself spending considerable time targeting big walleyes on trips to Canada…consistently catching 27”+ walleye’s (without livescope) is just as challenging as muskie fishing, and for me it’s always been about the challenge. | |
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Posts: 32979
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | How many weekly visits do you think there are on OFM?
1) 20k
2) 30k
3) 40K
4) 60K | |
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Posts: 7144
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | sworrall - 8/4/2026 11:44 AM
How many weekly visits do you think there are on OFM?
1) 20k
2) 30k
3) 40K
4) 60K
Now how do we get people talking to be able to bring the full value of what this community can bring to each other? | |
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Posts: 464
Location: SW Ohio | North of 8 - 8/3/2026 5:45 PM
CincySkeez - 8/3/2026 2:51 PM
Interesting read. A little red meat for each age group here
https://open.substack.com/pub/loosecannon/p/is-boating-becoming-too-...
Some time during COVID boat prices went nuts. Demand was high and supply did not keep up. Seems in looking at used boat prices that may have modified a bit. One of my fishing partners is, like everybody, is much younger than me and when he told me what he paid for his Impact back in 2024 it was all I could do not let my mouth drop open. This spring I put a new 9" Explore on my bow after my Helix took a dump. The guy at Northland Marine talked about how much it costs today to put electronics on a boat. He has been at it a long time but just shook his head.
You're right about the Covid years. Covid wasn't the only outbreak. Lakes became heavily "infected" with new boats. But don't forget all the single boat manufacturers being bought by conglomerates that could care less about customer service and more about dollars. Having all the formerly competing companies under one hat does nothing but raise all the boat prices.
sworrall - 8/4/2026 12:44 PM
How many weekly visits do you think there are on OFM?
1) 20k
2) 30k
3) 40K
4) 60K
One question:
How many of those a bots and how many are actual people? Is there a ratio that can seen? | |
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Posts: 406
Location: WI | If somebody is new to muskie fishing the 1st step should be finding the nearest Muskies Inc chapter. Older guys not being willing to help is BS. I learned alot from fishing with and listening to more experienced guys in our chapter. I used less than top of the equipment the first few years but still caught fish. The whole notion you need a 20ft boat to fish lakes bigger than 2000 acres is ridiculous. I've taken my 16ft Navigator to Eagle Lake, and LOTW quite a few times. You simply need to use your head when the wind blows. Ignore the people who say you need a Tranx 500 and a 10ft custom rod to catch a muskie. Get the best you can afford, buy good release tools, learn how to use a handful of lures, and have fun learning. | |
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Posts: 1722
Location: Brighton CO. | I will soon turn 66 and have helped many of fishermen over the years both on my own and as a muskies INC member. To fish bigger water and yes have a better chance at bigger fish and big boat helps, every thing from travel time to not taking on water in the wind. The biggest boat we owned was a 17 foot StarCraft with 70 horse. My nephew and I took this boat to Vermillion after my dad passed (this was my dad's boat) We got in some big rollers on the east end of V. and my nephew hasn't fish since then. (2018) And yes there's a big square on the map "High wind area" A thing that will help you catch fish is boat control get strong trolling motor and 24 or 36 volt system. Over the years we caught a lot of our Muskies out of a 14 foot row boat three of us fishing. Dad would drive the 15 horse and would take the center seat being a good overhead caster and a friend or family member in the front. Like a fool I sold this boat when I moved back home as my parents were ageing (at least I was smart enough to keep the motor) I am boatless now. Get out there enjoy the water and woods with friends and family. I don't any more lures but on my next R&H's order I'll get a new Knipex. I'm in your camp Emptynet! | |
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Posts: 670
Location: Roscoe IL | I'm still here & check the forum quite often. Don't post or respond much as life gets in the way. I also like to mix up the type of fishing I do now. Bast catch last week was a fat bluegill that my grandson got on a spiderman pole. This site has always provided insight when I look for help & entertainment when I need it. Happy it's here for us still and thanks for that.
Mikey
Still have that glider you traded me for the musky treat. Still give it a try here & there. Still skunk city but one day maybe  | |
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