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Posts: 3
| Is it normal for a musky guide to also fish while he/she is guiding?
My friend and I recently did several days of guided fishing with a younger guide and I was surprised when he started casting with us. He put my friend and I in the front of the boat and fished from the back.
The trolling motor pedal was in the back, so it made some sense, but our casting got a little tight at times with him casting as well.
Was wondering what other people's experiences were and what should be expected when fishing with guides.
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Posts: 98
| Most guides I've fished with have done the same. They usually ask if I mind if they cast off the back and I never do. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | De more baits in de water de better. m |
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Posts: 351
Location: Vilas County, WI | Half the guides I fished with did fish, the other half did not. After experiencing both, my preference is for the guide not to fish. I like having the extra room up front, with my partner in the back. (Whenever I've gone there has been two of us anglers) The guide managed the electronics, trolling motor, net, etc seated in the middle.
When the guide did fish, and he hooked one, don't try to hand me the rod like I'm a little kid. You hooked that fish fair and square, now you catch it.
Edited by TheShow 8/20/2024 8:36 AM
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Posts: 624
Location: S.W. WI | I would expect the guide to fish. From the back is not going to hamper or change anything except maybe help figure out a pattern. I would insist he fishes. 3 or 4 guides I have went with fished. I think 1 asked for approval and i said "you better fish" |
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Posts: 1397
Location: Brighton CO. | The first time I hired a guide he didn't fish (he had one of those rare but miserable summertime colds) he put us on fish and it worked well. The next time I fished with the same guide he fished but his lure was the third lure thru. He gave me a Cisco Kid Flaptail and I didn't have the skill to work it slow enough so he gave me something else then he caught a fish on the Falptail.
I have that in my bag of tricks now. Then the same guide in the fall ran the boat and maned the suckers but didn't cast.
Fishing in Minnesota with a guide we both casted but I had first water, so that was good more lures in the better for patterning.
Last fall the guide would get the suckers rigged then he asked if he could fish and of course we said yes. So we had three us casting plus our suckers. Worked well for us.
In the case of the first guide sucker fishing he didn't cast much because it was in the back trolling days with the suckers he didn't want to cast when he had first water.
If you go to a restaurant on the water client grabs the tab. |
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Posts: 7039
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Personally, if theyre in the back of the boat and not running a sucker or dealing with crazy conditions, I'm a supporter of a guide casting. Like Mikie said, more baits in the water, better chance of a fish.
Now it being a little tight with two of you up front, that I have a question for. I know guides come in all shapes and sizes, but if you have 2 guys in your boat, it should be easy to cast and not be on top of each other. Could be client skill (no offense) or the guide's boat just isn't laid out for 3 casting. |
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Posts: 554
Location: WI | Can guides trust clients to keep them on patterns without doing some casting? Not sure I would if I was a guide. I’d want to be the clean up guy just to help verify if fish are or aren’t on the spots I’d be putting clients on. |
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Posts: 186
| I always thought this was up to the client? Personally I'd have zero issues with the guide fishing. |
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Posts: 760
| When the guide does fish, does it not give the client the opportunity to watch as he works a bait, casts, retrieve speed,does figure eights etc? Kdawg |
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Posts: 620
Location: Seymour, WI | I would absolutely want the guide to be fishing while I'm in the boat. They have mastered their craft and there is a lot to learn from someone that has that much time on the water. Guides catch a lot of fish, it's not because they're lucky, it's because they're usually doing something a little different/ better than the average Joe. The guide clients should absolutely learn something from the guides fishing technique while they're on the water. |
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Posts: 618
Location: Bloomington, MN | I've netted more fish for guides than they have netted for me! |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I still guide some and don't usually wet a line unless some instruction is needed. |
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Posts: 8782
| I don't mind if a guide fishes as long as:
1. He/she does not do so from the front of the boat.
2. Said fishing does not take away from proper boat control/navigation
3. Said guide does not try to figure 8 my fish.
4. Said guide does not cast when we're coming back on a jumbo I raised earlier in the day
5. Said guide does not cast in front of me
6. Someone in the boat needs a lot of instruction
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Posts: 1144
Location: Minnesota. | Guess I'm 50/50 on this altho to be honest my friend and I have only gone out with just one guide, a Vermilion trip a few years ago. He fished on and off (IIRC - been awhile) and we'd never come across a person who talked SO much! Constant! But I had the feeling he was a hard worker and it was all fish-related.
Wasn't the best experience for either of us, raising just one smaller fish.
I DID mention upon going out that we were both there to LEARN rather than boat a few fish (we both had over 30 yrs each chasin'!! and had a handful of "fifties plus" to our names) so perhaps that factored into the non-stop talk... (Note: Don't ever do that people!!!)
When he ran out of places to fish mid-trip and he suggested we take him to a few of our spots to "dissect 'em" we both just shut down... That wasn't gonna happen!
Last time we'll be renting a guide needless to say... |
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Posts: 186
| Good guides are great, bad guides are #*#*. You found that out apparently.
Edited by BillM 8/21/2024 12:13 PM
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Posts: 2325
Location: Chisholm, MN | Jeremy - 8/20/2024 7:39 PM
Guess I'm 50/50 on this altho to be honest my friend and I have only gone out with just one guide, a Vermilion trip a few years ago. He fished on and off (IIRC - been awhile) and we'd never come across a person who talked SO much! Constant! But I had the feeling he was a hard worker and it was all fish-related.
Wasn't the best experience for either of us, raising just one smaller fish.
I DID mention upon going out that we were both there to LEARN rather than boat a few fish (we both had over 30 yrs each chasin'!! and had a handful of "fifties plus" to our names) so perhaps that factored into the non-stop talk... (Note: Don't ever do that people!!!)
When he ran out of places to fish mid-trip and he suggested we take him to a few of our spots to "dissect 'em" we both just shut down... That wasn't gonna happen!
Last time we'll be renting a guide needless to say...
I can't imagine running out of spots to fish on vermilion! This guy must not have known the lake very well. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | if they are fishing from the back it only helps dial in what the fish want. No real negative to them casting from the back only positives... |
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Posts: 393
| Not sure if my answer is yes or no. Whenever I have paid for a guide my concern is whether they are providing input on lure selection based on conditions and lake geography, putting me on fish or likely fish hot spots and engaging in some ongoing fishing conversation about past experiences and his/her insight into successful musky fishing. If they do that I have no problems if they are fishing occasionally from the back of the boat. |
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| I am thinking it might depend in part on how many are fishing. Few weeks ago on Eagle, hired a guide. Just me, guys I went with are walleye fishermen. Guide fished from the back of the boat, a 20' Kingfisher. He would explain structure we were fishing each time we moved. And while he was casting, he clearly was watching me and my bait. Second fish I got came at the end of the day. It followed off a rock bar and he clearly saw it as soon as I did. Looked like a lazy follow but one quick tail flip and it grabbed the bucktail. As I set the hook, he exclaimed "holy, crap, it ate!" He was casting in a different direction but was watching my lure as much as his.
First fish I caught, he gave me a little grief for how softly I said 'fish' when it hit. He didn't realize I had one hooked until it splashed on the surface. I fish by myself most of the time, not really used to saying anything. We both laughed when it was in the net and I promised to be louder the next time.
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Sad story of a guide fishing with two very novice clients. While they casted toward shore, he made a cast 'off' and hooked a very large fish. As the fish fight progressed he realized the fish was exceptional and that his clients would likely blow the net job, so he let the lady handle his rod when he fish got to the boat and he netted the fish.
Turns out it was a new state record BUT since the client also handled the rod, the state (following objections from another local guide) deleted his record. m |
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Posts: 1279
| About 25 years ago, I did some walleye guiding for a couple summers. While it is different than muskie guiding for a few different reasons, there are still some similarities. I didn't fish for a couple reasons. One, we're keeping fish versus letting them go. Also, I figured they were paying me to guide, so that's what I did. Mainly though, they just needed so much attention, I didn't want to be distracted at all. You wouldn't believe how many guys who had "been fishing walleye for 20 years" didn't use their equipment properly, didn't pay attention to what they were doing, etc. Give me kids, moms, girl friends, grandmas, any day. They listen, do what you tell them, and generally have more success. The guys typically "know it all" and promptly illustrate that they don't. |
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Posts: 1735
| I would hire a guide to teach me things and the lake. If the guide wants to fish he shouldn't have accepted a client, he should have gone fishing on his dime. |
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Posts: 639
Location: Duluth | I book a guide to fish with them. |
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Posts: 921
| I certainly want a guide fishing in the back of the boat. I've learned a lot about watching them at boat side on their figure 8's.
Plus it's another bait in the water figuring out a potential pattern. I don't feel there is any reason for them not to fish. Usually when it's a bucktail bite the front of the boat is going to have all the action. But I've caught fish on a bucktail in the 2nd position in the middle of the boat while front and rear are both throwing bucktails.
Also have seen the guide in the back in third base catch fish on a bucktail when 1st and 2nd base were throwing bucktails.
Size? Color? Speed? I do know a good guide will watch where their clients did NOT cast to and try to hit spots that have been missed.
Ball Cap |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | My son had a group of 5 yesterday so he hired me to take 2 of them. One was an experienced muskie angler and the other had never been and had never used a baitcaster.
It was 90 degrees + out there, FAC, and the muskies and pike were sleeping, but by the end of a half-day trip, angler 2 was casting 60' and hitting the edge of the weeds consistently with a spinnerbait. I started him with a topwater so he could get the lure going weed-free and changed him over to a big Violent Strike chatter bait when he got the hang of it. We saw a couple just swimming around, predictably fishing was tough.They left by plane to Dryden after buying us lunch to fish Eagle for a week. Now he's ready.
I didn't cast once, but was busy running the boat from the middle and taking care of backlashes, lure changes, etc. |
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Posts: 921
| That's understandable 100% Steve. I should've mentioned that I assume when I'm fishing with the guide that I know what I'm doing without needing help from the guide 
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'd have happily fished some if they were both all set, tossing a creature when applicable. We did catch a tree. A big one. |
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Posts: 2325
Location: Chisholm, MN | I think it's best to just be transparent with what you want out of the trip. Ask first what the guide's plan is and if they don't do what you want then hire someone else. I do a dozen trips a year and I don't fish 95 percent of them. Most of my clients are relatively inexperienced or brand new so doing as Steve does is best. When they don't need a ton of help and, like other have said, and want to fine tune their figure 8s etc I will fish with them to demo it. The worst feeling as a guide is having a client net a fish for you and if I am fishing, it's likely going to happen. This feeling is worse than having a bad day when no fish are boated. "Net my fish and then pay me for it". I do have some experienced clients and I still don't fish much. I will do demos and provide as much instruction as possible to get them dialed in. I've had very positive feedback doing it this way and I would hope my clients will be honest with me if they want something different. You gotta remember that Minnesotans especially don't like confrontation and will just live with it not going their way until they can b-i-t-c-h about it online later. |
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Posts: 8782
| I can only remember a few times when our guide did not fish. Once was when the wind and waves were so bad he had to run the big motor to keep us on the spot
#2 was kind of funny: We had a good rhythm going - alternating casts, one person figure 8'ing boatside while the other anglers cast was hitting the water, casts landing about 20 feet apart, point guy casting out ahead of the boat... "crap I missed that little pocket. Hit that, will 'ya?
Our guide stood up with his rod a few times and then sat back down. I finally said "Hey, aren't you gonna fish?" His answer:
"Why? You guys are like a %^$ machine up there. You heard the phrase "Suckin' hind tit"? I'm just gonna run the boat and keep one hand on the net, because it's only a matter of time the way you guys fish. Wouldn't be surprised if you both hook up at the same time. In fact, this ain't hind tit back here. This is NO tit!
We were all laughing, but I think he was kind of mad. |
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Posts: 7039
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | sworrall - 8/27/2024 1:28 PM
I'd have happily fished some if they were both all set, tossing a creature when applicable. We did catch a tree. A big one.
Fishing for squirrels? |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Eagles. |
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Posts: 1247
Location: Walker, MN | I don't cast unless I have one or two clients that prefer that I do, this is maybe 25% of the time. Never with 3 clients, and I have a 22' boat. If the fish are going on bucktails or topwaters (lures coming in a straight line) I would never. If we are trying to unlock some tricky fish, by working lures a certain way (rubber, jerkbaits etc.), I might cast off the back until we figure out a trigger. I have successfully handed off the rod to kids and ladies many times.
I don't sharp shoot muskies, but guides that do should never make a cast. Seems obvious, but I see plenty of newer guides doing it...three 12" screens at their feet and always casting? If you can see them, take a seat and let your clients cast at them. I prefer traditional muskie casting, it does sometimes require that extra line in the water to figure something out.
If your prefer the guide didn't cast, just let them know. |
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Posts: 275
| Done both, works fine
Edited by MuskyFlyGuy 8/28/2024 1:00 PM
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Posts: 38
Location: Central Illinois | Don’t mind having the guide casting. I think having the guide casting helps figure out what the fish are wanting that day. On several occasions had the guide move a fish with different type of bait. Gave the bait to me throw and ended up moving n catching fish. I’ve also learned a lot by watching how a guide works a particular lure. |
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Guide Etiquette