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Posts: 620
Location: Seymour, WI | I just installed a new Humminbird Helix 7 on my dashboard. If I'm running both my graph on the bow and the one on the dash, the dash graph shuts off every time I start my motor. I have a brand new group 31 battery as the starting battery and it is fully charged.
Any Ideas on what I can do to prevent the graph from turning off every time I start the motor?
Thanks, |
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| Does the dash unit go through a power/fuse bank? If so, run a dedicated power line just for it. I had the same issue with Humminbirds and this fixed the problem.
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Posts: 186
| Voltage drop. Probably the crappy stock wiring. Run some new cables to a distribution box and tie the Humminbirds into that. Had the same issue with my Lund, this solved it. |
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Location: Northern Illinois | ^^^^ Yup |
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Posts: 358
| if you can run at least 10 ga marine wire. Run it direct, or run through a dedicated fuse block and switch. |
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Posts: 2327
Location: Chisholm, MN | Or a bad battery. Could be faulty even though it's new.
Edited by Kirby Budrow 10/12/2023 8:37 AM
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Posts: 121
Location: Twin Cities Metro | When the starter is engaged, there is a large current draw from the cranking battery. The internal resistance of the battery produces a reduction in the terminal voltage of the battery. There is also a small voltage drop across each wire in your electrical system: the thicker the wire, the lower its resistance and the smaller its resulting voltage drop would be. This voltage drop, no matter how small, reduces the effective voltage that is being applied to whatever device is connected to it.
When you engage the starter, the battery's effective voltage is lowered. This drop, coupled with the drop in voltage across the length of wire connecting your graph to the battery, probably reduces the voltage the graph experiences below its minimum voltage. The fact that only one graph turns off suggests that the wire connecting that graph to power is probably the culprit.
There are two ways to minimize the resistance of the wire leading to your graph: 1) Use thicker wire or 2) reduce the length of the wire.
If you wired the graph yourself, be sure you're using the minimum length you need, that the gauge (thickness of the wire) is sufficient, and that it is marine grade wire. Marine grade wire uses tinned copper strands to reduce corrosion and is more flexible than automotive wire so that it can wind around corners more easily. Here is a chart that lists what gauge wire you should be using for various graphs for the length of wire you're using:
https://humminbird-help.johnsonoutdoors.com/hc/en-us/articles/906554...
Note how the longer the wire "run", the thicker the wire that is required (lower gauge number refers to thicker wire). Best of luck!
ps Kirby could be right as well about it being a faulty battery.
Edited by RobertK 10/12/2023 9:02 AM
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| Wouldn't you just use the cable/wire that comes with the unit when you buy it? Or am I missing something here? |
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Posts: 620
Location: Seymour, WI | I don't know anything about electronics so I appreciate all the intelligent responses.
My previous graph was also a Humminbird, so when I installed the new graph, I used the same power line that was used for the previous graph. (It had the exact same connection going into the graph) I will look and see if I'm able to rewire the new power line. It connects into a long bar of connections and switches under my boat dashboard. |
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Location: Northern Illinois | run 10ga tinned wire from battery, to a blue seas terminal block. wire graphs to terminal blocks. should be good to go, or purchase lithium dedicated graph battery and keep graphs off starting battery. |
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Posts: 2327
Location: Chisholm, MN | Grass - 10/12/2023 12:36 PM
I don't know anything about electronics so I appreciate all the intelligent responses.
My previous graph was also a Humminbird, so when I installed the new graph, I used the same power line that was used for the previous graph. (It had the exact same connection going into the graph) I will look and see if I'm able to rewire the new power line. It connects into a long bar of connections and switches under my boat dashboard.
Yeah, so disconnect it. Add 10 gauge wire to extend it back to your battery if needed and wire it direct. That will probably fix the issue...unless your battery is bad.
Don't forget to add a fuse as well
Edited by Kirby Budrow 10/12/2023 3:00 PM
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Posts: 121
Location: Twin Cities Metro | Grass - 10/12/2023 6:36 AM
My previous graph was also a Humminbird, so when I installed the new graph, I used the same power line that was used for the previous graph. (It had the exact same connection going into the graph)
This may indeed be the problem, as Kirby suggested. While the connector may be the same, the wire for the previous unit may be a smaller diameter wire than is required for your current unit. When you upgrade units, the power consumption needs often go up. So using the cord from your old unit may be causing a larger voltage drop within that wire.
An alternative to Kirby's suggestion is that you use the power cord that came with your unit (as Baby Mallard suggested!). As long as it reaches the connection board under your console, I would try that rather than fishing a new wire all the way to the cranking battery.
When you do that, you may find that the connection board that the old wire is connected to has a fuse in its circuit. They are often the small automotive fuses. The fuse in that circuit is probably correct for your old unit, but you may want to swap it out for a larger fuse if your new unit has larger current capacity needs. It's probably no problem, but you might want to check it. The reason is this...
If your old unit was fused for, say, 2.0 Amps to protect its electronics, while your new unit is designed to take up 3.0Amps, you might exceed that old fuse during normal operation. I suspect it isn't really a problem since you haven't noticed your fuse blowing, but I would check it.
Edited by RobertK 10/13/2023 10:31 AM
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| low battery voltage. graph is built to shut off at low voltage. |
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Location: Walker, MN | Is the new group 31 a marine cranking battery? I tried using a combo RV/Marine Deep Cycle battery once for starting/accessory and had the same issue. You can have all the reserve capacity in the world and the graph will still cut out if there aren't enough cranking amps. Need the max cold cranking amps for starting...like 900+ cca for a lot of these outboards. |
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Posts: 612
| Unfortunately the hole system i very sensitive too voltage drop. No more running it down to 10 Vdc. I assume you problem Helix is connected to the battery thats also used to turn over gas motor thus a potential for major voltage drop and this new system w spot lock, automatic navigation features only work with minimal voltage drop. Here now how long and what AWG are your wires. Length causes voltage drop, every time it's doubled the voltage drop doubles. Every time y increase the wires AWG voltage drop goes down. I.E. 10 AWG can carry 2ce as much current then 14 AWG. The whole system fishfinder, trolling motor, batteries, hand remote all are very sensitive to voltage drop. Also call Hummminbird and get there input, good support.
BTW don't use the Lake Master Mapping software, its crap o thee lakes in NYS, had better luck w Navionics (just me?) |
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Posts: 612
| Masqui-ninja - 11/23/2023 8:57 AM
Is the new group 31 a marine cranking battery? I tried using a combo RV/Marine Deep Cycle battery once for starting/accessory and had the same issue. You can have all the reserve capacity in the world and the graph will still cut out if there aren't enough cranking amps. Need the max cold cranking amps for starting...like 900+ cca for a lot of these outboards.
This as well ^^^ |
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Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | Use the standby feature when starting your big motor. |
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Posts: 186
| jchiggins - 11/23/2023 9:32 PM
Use the standby feature when starting your big motor.
Great idea, but this is a bandaid fix. He just needs to run some new wiring and get those sonars moved off the stock wiring. |
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| Hit menu, go left to 'Alarms', adjust low voltage to that lower than the issue you are having, or shut the feature off. Often quick fix, albeit not always the correct one. |
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| After reading all the suggestions and explanations, I am glad I took the coward's way out and had my Helix wired by the dealer I bought it from. So many folks I know have mentioned issues they have had and frankly I hate dealing with 12 volt systems.
At least now if there is a problem, I can blame the dealer. |
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| Simply turn the brightness down to 7 or 8 on both units. It worked for me. |
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Location: Mt. Zion, IL | Fix it the right way and upgrade the wiring. These are computers after all and the fluctuating voltage only shortens the life especially when you discharge the battery to the point that they shut off when cranking the outboard. I have wired probably 20 boats for friends and family now. Just for electronics, we use 4 awg to a breaker and then bus bars under the console if there is one. 10 awg for any extensions and solder all connections except the terminals at the bus bar for the finders, live boxes, etc. Tiller boats are a bit different. None have had these issues once adequate wire is installed, but most, even the brand new boats did, especially when it is below 50 degrees out.
Edited by RyanJoz 11/9/2024 4:12 PM
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New Humminbird Helix shuts off when starting the motor