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| On today's show it seems like that was all they were catching on Pewaukee. I thought muskies didn't hit much through ice. Do you icefisherman get many muskies through the ice? During the show it looks like they got four fish 38 to 45 inches, three of them they just caught, they just cut the line and put them back, do you think those fish will survive? Al |
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Posts: 305
Location: Illinois | I think they will survive. I had no problems with any of it with the exception of the muskies flopping around on the ice. There was a musky bleeding pretty good but if they hit the fish right away there is not much you can do. You have got to remember that on this show there were probably 100 tip ups out on a lake with a good musky population so the chances of tangling with one are pretty good. I would have preffered that he cut the line without taking the fish out of the water but it is television and I am sure he wanted the viewers to see.hj |
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Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | My dad seen the show, he was pretty mad about it. I doubt the muskies will survive being gut hooked. Gillespie catches them every year out there while filming an ice fishing show, I can't recall ever seeing one gut hooked before. |
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Posts: 1046
| I did`nt see the show but my guess is they were fishing with shiners. Anyone who has half a brain knows that in pike infested waters that also have alot of musky`s you fish with DEAD BAIT and will not have to worry about catching the ski`s.After hand lining a gut hooked fish the survivability of that fish has a poor chance to live.Quickstrikes on deadbait are really the only way to insure that the pikies live too!Myself,I have quit watching that show, just another opinion! |
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Posts: 149
| The chance at survival isn't very good for those gut hooked fish. Those who are familiar with the various studies on gut hooked muskies will say that virtually 100% of all gut hooked fish die within a year. Also with modern metals and coatings being used in hooks these days, there's no way they'll simply rust away as the old wives tale says. Those fish in my estimation are goners. Without getting a fire started about it, that isn't the first time questionable ethics have been showcased on that show. It's a routine occurrance.
I've only caught a handful of muskies through the years while out on the ice up to the low 40" range, and never have I had a gut hooked one. In fact, all of mine have been on walleye rigs, not while northern fishing. |
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| Somehow my response yesterday magically disappeared. I saw this show and thought someone please teach these people how to catch and release muskies! They cut the hooks and I couldn't tell for sure if any were gut hooked, but still those that weren't could have easily had the hook removed.
Steve |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | I watched the show today and it made me sick to see the wire leaders and mishandling of the muskies.
This "Pewaukee show" is a party thing on the West End of the lake every year.
I have bummed out every year while watching it. The way they handle the show and fish is a joke.
I had a group out that same weekend and we all use mono line and small thin wire no.10 treble hooks on all the tip-ups. All fish were caught without a break off that day. One was a muskie, 3 Pike from 29, 29 1/4 and a 36-inch, 2 Walleyes 16 and 20-inch, and a few smaller fish.
A small treble is not even close to a wire leader, gut hooked, no.6 northern hook.
1/2 of the problem is that this is made a huge party, fill the west end of Pewaukee lake up with as many tip-ups as possible to get more action.
No one is thinking of the fishery just getting on Johns show. Most of the people you see are from the bars on that end or friend of the people hosting Johns crew.
The only fish that looked hurt from what I could see, is the one that the guy held up by the line. This was as stupid as it could get. You got a hook in its guts and 16# of weight is pulling its guts out. Blood was running out of its gills and "she will be ok" is said as it was let go.
You would think John would like to show the proper handling of muskies and change the set-ups they use.
Big pike hooks, wire leaders and inexperanced anglers spells trouble for the fish they catch.
Because of the muskie population they will be caught. Dead bait is a great idea. Its not that productive. I would not be surprized if a muskie ate a smelt. I have used it and caught Northerns on shiners next to the smelt tip-ups. You never know.
The best thing I have used is small thin wire hooks. That is the best I have found. I would think the next time the fish eats it will drag that small wook down with the next meal.
Anyone have a better idea?
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Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | I would think Pete Mania would have some influence to change Gillespie's ways. If that doesn't work, maybe just the bad publicitiy will. If you have a problem with it, and everyone here should, post a message here. I'm sure he will here about this post and check it out. I tried to find his web site or e-mail but I don't think he has one. |
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| I sent an email to Pete on The Next Bite forum! |
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Posts: 1046
| Extreme Mike, you are right about the deadbait being less effective(at times)then live bait, but you can and will entice the biggest fish in any system all season long. If set-up properly they will out fish most minnows alive for us except sometimes in a very first ice situation.Most guys put the nix on deadbait for one reason and that reason being because they want the multi fish action of shiners.Myself on your lake, a few moons ago we used to CRACK some dandy pikies almost all season long.Never a ski we had. |
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Posts: 1936
Location: Eau Claire, WI | I have learned on our waters that the "dead bait" vs shiners will help curb the incidental catches. I suspect most anglers often never give this a thought...let's face it this is a "Muskie Focused" message board, therefore most all viewers and members are primarily muskie anglers.
Must have been a weekend for poor ethics and practices. Last night I wrote a letter to Cabelas regarding the show that was on "Cabelas Outdoors" yesterday. Couple guys on Mille Lacs got three muskies and the first thing that happened when they netted the fish was to bring the net in the boat and let the fish flop around on the deck of the Cabela logoed Ranger 620.
Very easy way to curb issues lik this to write the producers of the shows and let them know that copies of the letter will be sent to the advertisers of the show as well. Bottom line is advertising dollars is what allows programs to exist/profit.
I love Gillespies show.... most of the time when he's with Pete, Rob or a few the others I've seen they seem to promote proper CPR tactics. Can't help but believe this was an oversite on Johns part.
Whether Johns show is annual party event or not shows like his, Cabelas, Bass Pro etc. need to be continually enforcing and showing proper sportsman ethics and respect for the resources. For the most part they do a pretty good job... No one is perfect.
If you intend to write a letter, be respectful and to the point. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | i put nearly the same amount of time into my ice fishing per week that I do musky fishing during the open water season. I very rarely gut hook fish(none this season). The reason I don't is that I do not wait around for the fish to swallow my hook. Many people wait far too long, and I wish this theory of waiting for a run, and practice of the theory would fall by the wayside. One misses very few fish(walleyes included) when checking the line immediately upon reaching the tipup. Don't stand and wait for it to spin again, as the idle line often indicates a fish either swallowing a bait, or a bait that has been dropped. Pick up the line right away, check it and get back to fishing. Also, too many folks put their tipups too far away to ethically use them properly. Closer sets will ensure a quicker arrival at a flag, further reducing gut hooking possibilities.
Edited by Reef Hawg 3/1/2004 8:29 AM
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Handyman, I agree with you on the dead bait issue.
The only problem is the northern population is just ok not like up north.
I like to catch Walleyes and Bass this time of the year also. So what do you do? Not real fair either way.
I would hate to see a muskie swallow a smelt rig. When they are on a feed I could see it happen if you could not get to the tip-up fast enough.
I catch more muskies walleye fishing every year than northern fishing.
For the most part the muskies are working deeper water. Thats why Gillispe's crew caught some nice ones. They were fishing the weedline NorthWest of the Island. Thats where most of the Muskies were caught, close to deep water.
I fish the thickest weeds close to prespawn holding areas. This illiminates most of the muskie catches.
In the last three weekends we caught 10 pike, 14 walleyes, 7 bass and only 3 muskies. I think I am doing the best I can to keep the ratio down.
Now if I wanted muskies I could catch 4 to 5 a day. I have great areas that I don't fish because of that reason.
I think if I guy has a muskie on, he should grab the fish by the gill cover(head out of the hole only), open the mouth, unhook or cut the line, pull the fish the rest of the way out of the hole, turn it around and slip it back in. If a picture is needed it should be taken as you are releasing the fish. This will elliminate the misshandling of fish. Most fish are tossed on the ice, pinned down, dropped, and what not. I try to help anyone out close to me when I see a muskie caught. Most people are thankfull for the help.
Also most fishermen I come across on the ice use large hooks and steel leaders for pike. Thats a killer anytime the muskie swallows a bait. I hate to see those rigs used.
The only thing we can do it TEACH TEACH TEACH.
Maybe we can get a few people to change their ways and they can get a few others to change their ways.
John should be a teacher and his show should be a tool !!!
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Pretty controversial topic. However, I think the answer is pretty simply. The DNR gut hook study pretty well says it- they have a poor chance of survival, no matter what the hook size is. Why aren't you using quick strike rig's and or quick strike techniques. About 24 years ago I switched to quick strike technique. It's very simple. I use a single treble hook, 6-8" leader- I hook the shiner right behind the top dorsal fin. If it's a big shiner, I'll clip a few fins to prevent false flags. Then when a flag goes off- get to the tip up immediately. I use beaver dams. If the line is going out- the fish is swimming away from the hole. Set the hook hard! I have a very low miss rate - probably less than 5 fish in 24 years. If the line is not going out, slowly put tension on it until you feel the fish, pull a little very slowly, the fish usually will resist and try to swim away- let them turn and start to swim away- then set the hook. You don't need to wait for them to swallow. Invariably they are hooked in the corner of the mouth. If the fish is big enough to eat your offering you should not have a problem. The key is paying attention to what's happening and making sure the fish is moving away when you set the hook. A small stinger hook could increase your odds. But personally I haven't found them necessary.Al Warner"All Water is Zalt Water"http://www.zaltnad.com |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Al, Are you asking why I don't use the same rigs as Gillispe's crew was using?
Is the show not enough reason to question that method. Did you see the show?
I am on the ice 3 to 6 days a week and see gut hooked fish with "quick strike rigs" that will not even have a chance to live. It is the most common set up used.
I know of at least 1/2 a dozen muskies that will die this year, all were using quick strike set ups. I went over to help the guy as the muskie was flopping around the ice, the guy wondered what to do, "it swallowed it" he said to me. Blood everywhere, no wire cutters, you get my point.
Yes, quick strike is the best method if you can get to your tip-ups before its too late.
Do you really think a number 10 mustad hook, one you can crunch flat between you two fingers, is the same as a DNR musky study hook. Not even close.
I know I am sticking my neck out on this topic but maybe we can come up with a better option. I am all ears.
Lets keep it clean.
Edited by Mikes Extreme 3/1/2004 1:34 PM
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Mike- Certainly not attacking you- using smaller hooks makes a lot of sense, i.e., less damage. I think the fundamental problem is the fish has time to swallow. Myself, like Reef Hawg, I'm always watching my tip-up's and I don't wait. Is there a better way, maybe not. Maybe you've taken it to the extreme (no pun intended), i.e., smallest size hook's, quick strike,etc, etc. We can't win them all. Maybe we should outlaw tip-up's on Muskie lakes. I'm certain that'll go over like a fart in church. There's always those out there with the let'm swallow it mentallity, i.e., then I can't lose them. Pretty hard to change 30 years of family traditions. Throw the tip-ups out, sit in the shack fishing for panfish, walleyes or whatever. Drink beer, check the tip-ups whenever ya gotta go pee. I guess in the long run all we can do is try to help gently educate others why they may want to change. In the last 24 years, I've' missed maybe 5 fish. Probably because they hadn't turned enough. I've never had a gut hooked fish. I'll teach my grandkids, papa's method of catching pike through the ice. Yes, the Pike big girls all go back down the hole. No photo's, it's to hard on them in the freezing temps. Just a hi-five and reset the tip-up. I agree it's also extremely important to have your release tools on your person. I use my Muskie tools, a 40" Pike has just as nasty of teeth and disposition as 40" Muskie. (jaw speaders, long pliers/hook out and cutters). Like you said a lot of folks out there are woefully prepared.Got to be pretty exasperating that it's your home lake also. I'm sitting here, the ice fishing gear is all loaded up & ready to go and it's raining & thundering outside. Al Warner"All Water is Zalt Water"http://www.zaltnad.com
Edited by ESOX Maniac 3/1/2004 6:39 PM
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Al, I know how you feel about the tip-ups. I just put all of my stuff in the basement and the shack in the back yard. Its all over for us down here.
The reason I went to the smaller hooks is because we fish for multi-species and release almost all the fish we catch. The eater walleyes are not so lucky. They rarely make it out of the shack.
I would like to use quick strike rigs but I have seen some bad things happen. Lots of people use them but not like you. If you use a quick strike you need to get to the flag asap. That means keeping them close and watching them close.
I have caught the same northern twice this year. It has a scar on its top side that is unique. This fish swallowed a small hook and was caught 2 weeks later in the same spot. The pike must have ate a bluegill before my jumbo shiner, it was full. This fish had no problem with the hook left in it.
The other thing is wire rigs and bigger hooks get hit far less than a light set-up. One of the guys that came out with Joel's crew had thin wire and bigger hooks. I had him put his tip-ups in front of the shack, the closest ones so they cold get to them asap. We had plent of flags all day, almost everyone was on the mono set-ups. The only break off was a thin wire leader that day. So is it better to grab and manhandle them to the hole or take your time and enjoy the fight.
Good stuff in the tread, thanks Al for some great info. I know your way and Reef Hawgs would be the one I would use if I was after giant pike somewhere up north.
No Info is bad info.
Can anyone else share some tips with us.
I am always looking to change my ways for the better.
Maybe we should start a new thread. This was Gillispe's thread. |
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| Pete Maina's response to me about this at The Next Bite:
Yeah, sadly I did hear about this. I spoke to several folks at the show in Madison this weekend about it too.
John told me about it. He said the hooks were swallowed on all. I told him that you need to be honest next time (apparantly some of the folks with him were the "cut the line and it's Ok crowd") ... just tell folks these fish are going to die.
Have to stress getting to tip-ups immediately and setting the hook immediately. Fortunately, muskies don't bite real often on tip-ups, but I'm afraid that many of those that do -- die.
Pete |
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Posts: 5171
| I sure hope he isnt mc for any high profile musky events anymore.I understand that the gut hooked fish were an accident but holding the fish up repeatly,which John influnced is also illegal.That show was disgusting. 0723 Bill ramsey |
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Gillispe Ice Fishing For Muskies