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Location: Rochester, New York | So there is this spot for bass and i have and can only shore fish however because of the weeds it makes it unfishable for a lot of the pond most of the year until they clear it out if anyone has had success with the weedless daredevle and if it performed as weedless as the johnson silver minnow or some other way to get a daredevle weedless because the Johnson silver minnow the fish did't like and isn't able to get the attention of the fish the way a spoon can because there is no distinctive places for fish to hide or points of interests especially on the weekend when they turn off the fountains? |
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| Toss a 4in Kalins grub on the back of that Johnson Silver minnow and then tell us the fish don't like it. |
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| Weedless Spoons catch fish. My big three.
1. Johnson Silver Minnow (all colors)
2. Rapala
3. Daredevle
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/6/2023 9:41 AM
Weedless Spoons catch fish. My big three.
1. Johnson Silver Minnow (all colors)
2. Rapala
3. Daredevle
Daredevle seem to be the only one that work johnson didn't catch anything though both with and without twister tail but did decent with weeds
How well did the weedless daredevle do in terms of not getting weeds
I know in the summer the only thing you can use are frogs until they clear out the weeds in certain parts but the frogs cant attract fish as well as the spoon or get as many bites
BillM - 6/6/2023 9:35 AM
Toss a 4in Kalins grub on the back of that Johnson Silver minnow and then tell us the fish don't like it.
They sadly don’t
Also its one of the few places where the bass dont like senkos
And there is really not to many points of interest that has easy access |
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Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | Try a weedless Pet spoon. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | ghoti - 6/6/2023 11:39 AM
Try a weedless Pet spoon.
What size and color
Any tricks for both this and the weedless daredevle work through heavier cover |
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| Like grinding a Spinnerbait point your rod tip at our lure. Experiment and practice, I'm good at running both a Depth Raider and Spinnerbait thru the thickest weeds. I can't tell you how many times I've been with people and put on a Depth Raider and I hear "you can't fish that here" As far as a Weedless Spoon I fish then in a stop and go fashion. Throw it out let it settle on the bottom and rip it off, reel a few cranks let it settle then repeat. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/6/2023 12:59 PM
Like grinding a Spinnerbait point your rod tip at our lure. Experiment and practice, I'm good at running both a Depth Raider and Spinnerbait thru the thickest weeds. I can't tell you how many times I've been with people and put on a Depth Raider and I hear "you can't fish that here" As far as a Weedless Spoon I fish then in a stop and go fashion. Throw it out let it settle on the bottom and rip it off, reel a few cranks let it settle then repeat.
Ok how don't you get any weeds found it too weedy for a spinnerbait for me and thats burning it right on the surface
Water is probably about 4-6ft ‘ as far as i can tell |
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| Rapala spoon will go through anything, and you can cast it a country mile. Also, fish like them. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | TCESOX - 6/6/2023 7:11 PM
Rapala spoon will go through anything, and you can cast it a country mile. Also, fish like them.
Do you mean the rapala pet spoon as well |
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| Muskie101 - 6/6/2023 7:38 PM
TCESOX - 6/6/2023 7:11 PM
Rapala spoon will go through anything, and you can cast it a country mile. Also, fish like them.
Do you mean the rapala pet spoon as well
I mean the Rapala spoons that I haven't seen in stores for a long time now. To be honest, I don't know if they even make them anymore. They are basically a curved bullet with a hook and a very sturdy weed guard. I'll take a picture of one, and try to post it in the next couple days. The last time I tried to post a picture, it showed up as a link, instead of showing in the post, and I'm not sure what I did differently, but I'll try to figure it out. |
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| Got three on E-Bay last year! |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/7/2023 10:34 AM
Got three on E-Bay last year!
TCESOX - 6/6/2023 10:40 PM
Muskie101 - 6/6/2023 7:38 PM
TCESOX - 6/6/2023 7:11 PM
Rapala spoon will go through anything, and you can cast it a country mile. Also, fish like them.
Do you mean the rapala pet spoon as well
I mean the Rapala spoons that I haven't seen in stores for a long time now. To be honest, I don't know if they even make them anymore. They are basically a curved bullet with a hook and a very sturdy weed guard. I'll take a picture of one, and try to post it in the next couple days. The last time I tried to post a picture, it showed up as a link, instead of showing in the post, and I'm not sure what I did differently, but I'll try to figure it out. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/7/2023 10:34 AM
Got three on E-Bay last year!
TCESOX - 6/6/2023 10:40 PM
TCESOX - 6/6/2023 7:11 PM
Rapala spoon will go through anything, and you can cast it a country mile. Also, fish like them.
Do you mean the rapala pet spoon as well
I mean the Rapala spoons that I haven't seen in stores for a long time now. To be honest, I don't know if they even make them anymore. They are basically a curved bullet with a hook and a very sturdy weed guard. I'll take a picture of one, and try to post it in the next couple days. The last time I tried to post a picture, it showed up as a link, instead of showing in the post, and I'm not sure what I did differently, but I'll try to figure it out.
So did they look like this
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The spoon was originally intended to be fished erratically ('jump lure'), and the good ones will flutter horizontally when they sink, basically a sophisticated swim jig. A silver minnow with a grub tail can be reeled and hesitated repeatedly over heavy cover, and allowed to drop into pockets all the way to the bottom free spooling if necessary. I've put some giants in the boat on the Goon and on some local lakes that have heavy cover shallow and no deep weeds doing just that. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | sworrall - 6/7/2023 1:12 PM
The spoon was originally intended to be fished erratically ('jump lure'), and the good ones will flutter horizontally when they sink. A silver minnow with a grub tail can be reeled and hesitated repeatedly over heavy cover, and allowed to drop into pockets all the way to the bottom free spooling if necessary. I've put some giants in the boat on the Goon and on some local lakes that have heavy cover shallow and no deep weeds doing just that.
True but the fish haven’t taken interest in them when i was using them |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Did you have a grub twister on the lure and work it as described? Not just casting out and reeling in. |
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| Muskie101 - 6/7/2023 11:02 AM
chuckski - 6/7/2023 10:34 AM
Got three on E-Bay last year!
TCESOX - 6/6/2023 10:40 PM
TCESOX - 6/6/2023 7:11 PM
Rapala spoon will go through anything, and you can cast it a country mile. Also, fish like them.
Do you mean the rapala pet spoon as well
I mean the Rapala spoons that I haven't seen in stores for a long time now. To be honest, I don't know if they even make them anymore. They are basically a curved bullet with a hook and a very sturdy weed guard. I'll take a picture of one, and try to post it in the next couple days. The last time I tried to post a picture, it showed up as a link, instead of showing in the post, and I'm not sure what I did differently, but I'll try to figure it out.
So did they look like this
No. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | sworrall - 6/7/2023 4:31 PM
Did you have a grub twister on the lure and work it as described? Not just casting out and reeling in.
Yes i did
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| This is the Rapala spoon I was referring to. Hopefully posting works. Usually just use a straight retrieve. Flaps around like crazy, and you can fish it through anything from heavily wooded areas to dense weeks. Even if it picks up a weed, it will shake it of in a couple of cranks. First used it when they first came out, on a pike trip to northern Manitoba. They loved it. Many years later, tried it with muskies, and they like it too.
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Location: Rochester, New York | TCESOX - 6/8/2023 11:14 AM
This is the Rapala spoon I was referring to. Hopefully posting works. Usually just use a straight retrieve. Flaps around like crazy, and you can fish it through anything from heavily wooded areas to dense weeks. Even if it picks up a weed, it will shake it of in a couple of cranks. First used it when they first came out, on a pike trip to northern Manitoba. They loved it. Many years later, tried it with muskies, and they like it too.
Its the rapala rattlin minnow spoon a few available on ebay amazon and a few other sites but what is interesting is rapalas eu site has it but their usa site doesn’t |
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| Try a 1/4ounce fire tiger Johnson Spoon with a 2"white Berkly split tail. Fish will think it's a frog. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | Ranger - 6/8/2023 11:52 AM
Try a 1/4ounce fire tiger Johnson Spoon with a 2"white Berkly split tail. Fish will think it's a frog.
Will try all of these thank you |
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| Muskie101 - 6/8/2023 10:51 AM
TCESOX - 6/8/2023 11:14 AM
This is the Rapala spoon I was referring to. Hopefully posting works. Usually just use a straight retrieve. Flaps around like crazy, and you can fish it through anything from heavily wooded areas to dense weeks. Even if it picks up a weed, it will shake it of in a couple of cranks. First used it when they first came out, on a pike trip to northern Manitoba. They loved it. Many years later, tried it with muskies, and they like it too.
Its the rapala rattlin minnow spoon a few available on ebay amazon and a few other sites but what is interesting is rapalas eu site has it but their usa site doesn’t
This one doesn't rattle. It's solid. |
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| I went on Amazon bought another reg. Spoon but also found a 5" Rapala Spoon that has two trebles and is giant compared to the reg. one and has Rattles. It's on the Amazon sight any of you young computer guys know how to post it here it would be cool for the rest of the users. (never knew such a thing existed) I have the exact Spoon as posted above too.
TCESOX I like your choice in lures. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/8/2023 2:36 PM
I went on Amazon bought another reg. Spoon but also found a 5" Rapala Spoon that has two trebles and is giant compared to the reg. one and has Rattles. It's on the Amazon sight any of you young computer guys know how to post it here it would be cool for the rest of the users. (never knew such a thing existed) I have the exact Spoon as posted above too.
TCESOX I like your choice in lures.
You mean for a photo
Check the box next to Click attach a file after posting |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/8/2023 2:36 PM
I went on Amazon bought another reg. Spoon but also found a 5" Rapala Spoon that has two trebles and is giant compared to the reg. one and has Rattles. It's on the Amazon sight any of you young computer guys know how to post it here it would be cool for the rest of the users. (never knew such a thing existed) I have the exact Spoon as posted above too.
TCESOX I like your choice in lures.
You mean for a photo
Check the box next to Click attach a file after posting then afterwards hit submit and it will take you to the page and click chose photo or video or |
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| Yes please! |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/8/2023 2:36 PM
I went on Amazon bought another reg. Spoon but also found a 5" Rapala Spoon that has two trebles and is giant compared to the reg. one and has Rattles. It's on the Amazon sight any of you young computer guys know how to post it here it would be cool for the rest of the users. (never knew such a thing existed) I have the exact Spoon as posted above too.
TCESOX I like your choice in lures.
You mean for a photo
Check the box next to Click attach a file after posting then afterwards hit submit and it will take you to the page and click photo library or choose file though with the file size limit you might have to use one of the free online file compressors and use that file |
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Location: Rochester, New York | And just like that my device crashed while sending and uploaded the same post twice |
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Location: Rochester, New York | But besides all these is the weedless daredevle actually weedless or does it make no difference like some weed guards |
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| another one to take a look at is the Northland Jawbreaker spoon. It was designed to fish through and over rice beds. We use bass fishing but have caught lots of pikes on them |
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Location: Rochester, New York | RJ_692 - 6/9/2023 9:27 AM
another one to take a look at is the Northland Jawbreaker spoon. It was designed to fish through and over rice beds. We use bass fishing but have caught lots of pikes on them
Looks promising |
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| The Bass guy's use hollow plastic spoon called a Moss Boss. I have one somewhere in all my stuff, the rubber skirt got rotten and fell off. So I never used it. |
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| I took a few Spoons over to a little pond in my town to check them out.
I tried out my new Rapala Spoon it's 5" long has rattles and two treble hooks, at first I didn't like the action, but if you reel it real slow it has a wide action with almost a hesitation. WOW His should be a good cool water bait or good bait for large Muskies in Wisconsin since they seem to like slow moving lures.
I have a bunch of old Rapala Spoons and Johnson Silver Minnows, the Johnsons have caught many large fish.
The old Rapala Spoons have no rattles (besides the new big Rapala Spoon I got another and it had rattles and is a little longer and has a bigger hook. On the Johnsons all the bigger fish been caught on the second to the largest size.
On the daredevle I like the Troll Devel size.
Tip the Spoons with Porkrind, Twistertail or Bass skirt. To be the most weedless put the Twistertail on the hookgaurd of the Johnsons or Rapala (on the Daredevle the hookgaurd is not in line with the hook.) With the right tackle they go thru the weeds pretty good. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Muskie101 - 6/7/2023 8:47 PM
sworrall - 6/7/2023 4:31 PM
Did you have a grub twister on the lure and work it as described? Not just casting out and reeling in.
Yes i did
Then try it varying the speed, almost like using a jig. Don't just try it when you can't catch anything doing something else, start a few days using the tactic. Take it from an old jig fishing specialist, it does work. |
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| Interesting reading Steve's comments. Hadn't thought of it in years, but my late uncle back in the 60s would put a pork rind on a Silver minnow, toss it in the lilly pads and kind of bounce it back. The pork rind tail would really flutter on the fall. He did well with both bass and pike on that. As a young teen, I didn't have the patience. Besides, somebody had to row that darn boat! Don't know how it would do in thicker weeds, but in lilly pads, it was a winner.
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| My dad caught our largest Wisconsin Muskie on the Silver Minnow, Pork Rind, and Lily Pad trick. I still have Muskie Strip in three colors and Bass Strip in three colors. I still catch Muskies, Northerns and Smallmouths on the Silver Minnow. (multiple colored Spoon too. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | Alright so try 4" kalins grub or 2" berkley split tail with a weedless daredevle, rapala weedless spoon, or johnson silver minnow
In addition to silver minnow color also get fire tiger i know i did get the biggest ones the last time i bought them
Try fishing them as described erratically
For color weedless daredevle i read that copper was the best finish with the 16 red devlet color but since they dont make copper finish for the five of diamonds should i go with the nickel or brass finish
Also what color for the katlin grub and the berkley split tail
And any frogs or other topwater lure reccomendations |
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| Daredevle comes in a Copper with Orange stripe or Chartreuse stripe.
JSM only has three colors at R&H, but they had a copy of the JSM called a Willy. White is the best trailer and I'm a Porkrind guy
(it's a pain to use but has the best action and since it's a pain to use no one else uses it and the fish don't see it as much)
Silver and Gold has caught most the fish but do have a DQed Perch color but only in smaller sizes. I also use Spoon's with single hooks or Trebles too. Since they are smaller people think of Spoons as Pike lures. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/18/2023 10:05 AM
Daredevle comes in a Copper with Orange stripe or Chartreuse stripe.
JSM only has three colors at R&H, but they had a copy of the JSM called a Willy. White is the best trailer and I'm a Porkrind guy
(it's a pain to use but has the best action and since it's a pain to use no one else uses it and the fish don't see it as much)
Silver and Gold has caught most the fish but do have a DQed Perch color but only in smaller sizes. I also use Spoon's with single hooks or Trebles too. Since they are smaller people think of Spoons as Pike lures.
So for the copper daredevle should i get the orange or chartreuse stripe which is surprising as i reading that the copper red and white stripe was the best but to use a five of diamonds in muddy water but they dont make copper finish for it so thats new
What does jsm and r&h stand for |
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| JSM= Johnson Silver Minnow R& H = Rollie & Helens with is the Musky Shop Minocqua Wisconsin tackle shop and on line catalog. Not weedless Little Cleo in Copper is a Pike Killer. And many of my friends kill em on the five of Diamonds. and I do have a Johnson's minnow in Five of Diamonds. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/18/2023 12:49 PM
JSM= Johnson Silver Minnow R& H = Rollie & Helens with is the Musky Shop Minocqua Wisconsin tackle shop and on line catalog. Not weedless Little Cleo in Copper is a Pike Killer. And many of my friends kill em on the five of Diamonds. and I do have a Johnson's minnow in Five of Diamonds.
Johnson Silver Minnow or eppinger Daredevle weedless 5 of diamonds work better
If eppinger dardevle 5 of diamonds brass or nickel finish those are the only options they offer for five of diamonds
And daredevle vs copper little cleo for pike overall
And johnson vs willy spoon overall for the johnson they offer more colors now |
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Location: Rochester, New York | Also what porkrind should i get there is forked tail, pork frogs,big pork frogs ect |
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| I don't think you can get a five of Diamonds in the Johnson's Spoon (I'm a older guy so lot of the colors I have are off the market) I don't own a Five Of Diamonds in the Daredevle. Pike love Little Cleo's, these are not weedless Spoons.
On the Porkrind I use the strips that are forked. I've never used the Porkfrog ( I hear it changes the action and keeps higher in the water column) this way be what you want. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/18/2023 6:25 PM
I don't think you can get a five of Diamonds in the Johnson's Spoon (I'm a older guy so lot of the colors I have are off the market) I don't own a Five Of Diamonds in the Daredevle. Pike love Little Cleo's, these are not weedless Spoons.
On the Porkrind I use the strips that are forked. I've never used the Porkfrog ( I hear it changes the action and keeps higher in the water column) this way be what you want.
They do make it now
By little Cleo do you mean the original in copper or one of the other models
for buying myself a weedless dardevle should i go with a brass or nickel finish
with the porkrind do I have to put it back in the jar like a gulp minnow |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/18/2023 6:25 PM
I don't think you can get a five of Diamonds in the Johnson's Spoon (I'm a older guy so lot of the colors I have are off the market) I don't own a Five Of Diamonds in the Daredevle. Pike love Little Cleo's, these are not weedless Spoons.
On the Porkrind I use the strips that are forked. I've never used the Porkfrog ( I hear it changes the action and keeps higher in the water column) this way be what you want.
They do make it now
By little Cleo do you mean the original in copper or one of the other models
for buying myself a weedless dardevle should i go with a brass or nickel finish
with the porkrind do I have to put it back in the jar like a gulp minnow
And between the silver minnow and dardevle 5 of diamonds I will test what performs better with a buddy
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| The Porkrind has to go back in the jar. (the jar is full of water) We keep a coffee can with water for ease of use. This is one reason people like cullytails ,no one uses Porkrind anymore. It will dry out and and you will have a stiff piece of Beefjerky on your lure. The Porkrind has three slits where you thread it on your hook. To take it off pull on the Porkrind to enlarge the hole in the Porkrind, then pull it off over your barb. And after repeated uses the hole in the porkrind gets bigger and bigger and it will fly off your lure when you cast. Now you see with the superior action of the Porkrind you also see bad points (beef jerky/ holes) why folks don't mess with it. I'm going add a snap and small O rind on mine and use a piece of plastic worm to hold it in place for ease of use. You can use a single piece of Rind on the end of your Bucktail too (snap it on the last loop of your Bucktail wire) or if you thread it on the hook itself put in on two trebles so your Bucktail doesn't spin in circles. (the whole lure will spin not just your blade) On the plus side you can catch a million Northerns and your Porkrind will be in one piece and going strong. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/19/2023 10:03 AM
The Porkrind has to go back in the jar. (the jar is full of water) We keep a coffee can with water for ease of use. This is one reason people like cullytails ,no one uses Porkrind anymore. It will dry out and and you will have a stiff piece of Beefjerky on your lure. The Porkrind has three slits where you thread it on your hook. To take it off pull on the Porkrind to enlarge the hole in the Porkrind, then pull it off over your barb. And after repeated uses the hole in the porkrind gets bigger and bigger and it will fly off your lure when you cast. Now you see with the superior action of the Porkrind you also see bad points (beef jerky/ holes) why folks don't mess with it. I'm going add a snap and small O rind on mine and use a piece of plastic worm to hold it in place for ease of use. You can use a single piece of Rind on the end of your Bucktail too (snap it on the last loop of your Bucktail wire) or if you thread it on the hook itself put in on two trebles so your Bucktail doesn't spin in circles. (the whole lure will spin not just your blade) On the plus side you can catch a million Northerns and your Porkrind will be in one piece and going strong.
Ok thank you Guess i should make color choice in another post |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There are literally dozens of variables why one bait outperforms another on any given day. Some days one wins, other days the other. Try to figure out why by looking at speed of retrieve, length of cast, and more importantly, placement, how the bait is being worked, leader material and weight, line #test and material, boat side technique, weather conditions, and more. If I'm getting outfished, it's usually one or more of those variables. |
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| Size, depth, and speed trump color. Yes you can play with color, but a lot of times it's where you throw VS what you throw. |
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Location: Rochester, New York | sworrall - 6/19/2023 1:56 PM
There are literally dozens of variables why one bait outperforms another on any given day. Some days one wins, other days the other. Try to figure out why by looking at speed of retrieve, length of cast, and more importantly, placement, how the bait is being worked, leader material and weight, line #test and material, boat side technique, weather conditions, and more. If I'm getting outfished, it's usually one or more of those variables.
Lure, how its being fished and location are what matter line and leader lb test dont matter as much
Yes but there almost always is a color that does the best overall
with the dardevle it being red and white and five of diamonds
For the gary yamamoto senko green pumpkin blk flk is the best
When fly fishing they say size 8 olive wooly bugger ect
And thats what I was looking to start with on top of that I have other restrictions right now so i could only go with one at the moment |
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Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 6/19/2023 2:59 PM
Size, depth, and speed trump color. Yes you can play with color, but a lot of times it's where you throw VS what you throw.
Agree in most circumstances but this place I am fishing there is no distinctive structure as fountains are turned off on weekends
(Before you ask why I bother fishing there despite getting maybe 4-6' deep max i have seen monsters in there and have pulled a coupler 28" out of there)
Id say color can make all the difference between catching 3 fish or 9 fish or 1 fish and getting skunked on those days where its tough which is why I look for and in places where you don't know much and the fish are weird |
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