|
|
| One of the topics that will be voted on this spring at the WI Conservation Congress will be to have the northern zone Musky season the same as the southern zone. In recent years, the southern zone opened the first weekend in May and the northern zone the Saturday before Memorial Day.
I don't know enough about musky biology to favor one time over the other. I live in the northern zone and am curious what others think about the proposed change. Should note that if it happens, would not be until 2024 season. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 333
Location: SE Wisc | I thought the reason for having the later opening season was to keep anglers from harassing spawning fish. Can’t see how this would improve the north woods fishery that already struggles with angler pressure(especially with the tech we have now), spearing, limited or declining spawning habitat, invasives, and generous bag limits with certain species. I know which way I’d vote. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | I'm against it. Muskies don't guard their spawn but there are so many lakes up north that rely 100% on the ritual to sustain. Don't interrupt it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1399
Location: Brighton CO. | There was good reason they pushed the muskie opener back. And look what it dad for the Bass fishery pushing it back with the C&R season. Being a older guy I remember having a general opener. And in my dad's day they had different dates you could use different live baits. For example you could only use a crawdad after a certain date. So they tried different things at different times. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 527
Location: NW WI | Chuck, there is no bass season anymore, that changed a few years back. I can't remember if there is season on keeping em though.
Does anybody know how an item makes it to this point-where it's mandated that the counties discuss and vote on it with attending citizens/online voting? DNR's online info on WCC isn't the easiest to navigate. I mean there's just no way this was put forward by musky educated persons. The only Pros I can fathom is the argument that not "all water" has natural reproduction and an earlier opener may = earlier tourism= weeks more of tourism income.
But those points are easily trumped by the potential long term negative impact. A no brainer to most of us I'm sure.
Didn't JD or somebody here catch a female that dropped her eggs in the boat a week or 2 after northern opener last year?
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1399
Location: Brighton CO. | Yup Jay you are 100% correct on open season on Bass for fishing, but is only keep them in May 7th thru march 5 for Largemouth and June 18th thru march for Smallmouth. (I'm not sure who keeps a Bass anyway) Release has saved Muskie fishing, We don't have to go to the Boundary water for good Bass fishing cutting down on the Panfish limits was helped that, so the thing that is hurting the most is Walleye fishing between spearing (messing with something that's spawning) and we like to keep Walleye's to eat. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1760
Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | The bass fisherman locally catch muskies all May. I hear about it every year. Wisconsin and Minnesota. Light tackle and long fights with big fish.
Oh and Chuckski, we can't thank your father's generation enough for crawdad fishing! It's done the Northwoods wonders!
Awful hard to draw a line at highway 10 for the whole state and assume all lakes are on the same calendar. Not sure what to think about it. Micro management like walleye limits would be the right way. But probably too much to ask. |
|
| |
|
| jchiggins - 1/29/2023 4:47 PM
The bass fisherman locally catch muskies all May. I hear about it every year. Wisconsin and Minnesota. Light tackle and long fights with big fish.
Oh and Chuckski, we can't thank your father's generation enough for crawdad fishing! It's done the Northwoods wonders!
Awful hard to draw a line at highway 10 for the whole state and assume all lakes are on the same calendar. Not sure what to think about it. Micro management like walleye limits would be the right way. But probably too much to ask.
Should have added that another item on the agenda is to have 50" limit on all WI musky lakes. As to the crayfish, there have always been crayfish in WI waters, just not rusties and those are fairly recent. In the 1960s, I was a middle school kid fishing on an Oneida county lake for musky. Caught a nice 5# or so walleye fishing early morning. Tossed it into a live box at the rental cabin. Came down that evening to clean it up for dinner and the crayfish had eaten about half the fish. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 504
Location: Ludington, MI | Here's something to consider: I have observed panfishermen harassing and killing muskies here in Michigan. Of course I reported it to the CO, but don't you think having musky anglers around the spawning fish is better than just having panfish and walleye anglers around the spawning muskies? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 333
Location: SE Wisc | I think the highway 10 boundary is as good as you’ll get for dividing the season openers. The lakes north of there do freeze up sooner and thaw later, thus the different spawning times. It kind of is a magic line. When we hit 75 degrees in southern Wi in early May, it’s likely in the high 50s up there on that same day. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 527
Location: NW WI | tundrawalker00 - 1/29/2023 5:20 PM
Here's something to consider: I have observed panfishermen harassing and killing muskies here in Michigan. Of course I reported it to the CO, but don't you think having musky anglers around the spawning fish is better than just having panfish and walleye anglers around the spawning muskies?
I believe you. But wouldn't panfisherman and wallete guys be angling deeper during that time period? |
|
| |
|
| 7.62xJay - 1/29/2023 9:14 PM
tundrawalker00 - 1/29/2023 5:20 PM
Here's something to consider: I have observed panfishermen harassing and killing muskies here in Michigan. Of course I reported it to the CO, but don't you think having musky anglers around the spawning fish is better than just having panfish and walleye anglers around the spawning muskies?
I believe you. But wouldn't panfisherman and wallete guys be angling deeper during that time period?
Early May by me (Oneida County) is prime time for panfish in the shallows, depending on water temps. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2269
Location: SE, WI. | Ciscokid82 - 1/29/2023 8:19 PM I think the highway 10 boundary is as good as you’ll get for dividing the season openers. The lakes north of there do freeze up sooner and thaw later, thus the different spawning times. It kind of is a magic line. When we hit 75 degrees in southern Wi in early May, it’s likely in the high 50s up there on that same day. Like to know, Which musky lakes hit 75 degrees in early May in SE, WI.?
Edited by jdsplasher 1/29/2023 9:33 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 333
Location: SE Wisc | Air temps not water temps. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 162
Location: Chicago, IL | I think this is a lousy regulation change personally. I’m supportive of the 50” statewide rule reg, and making the late season softwater only (no ice), which is also on the docket. But changing the northern zone opener to early May doesn’t make sense to me. The Bay of Green Bay is just starting to get some natural recruitment and they’ve spent decades rehabituating it, why jeopardize that. Also, I agree with the earlier point made about the Northwoods lakes that rely solely on natural reproduction, but already have so much stacked against them (spearing, advanced angling pressure, more pressure than ever, lack of spawning habitat). If anyone has any context or justification information for why the DNR is proposing this, that would be helpful to see. It can’t be biological b/c without question, fish in the Northern Zone are spawning throughout May. |
|
| |
|
| Slobasaurus - 1/30/2023 8:23 AM
I think this is a lousy regulation change personally. I’m supportive of the 50” statewide rule reg, and making the late season softwater only (no ice), which is also on the docket. But changing the northern zone opener to early May doesn’t make sense to me. The Bay of Green Bay is just starting to get some natural recruitment and they’ve spent decades rehabituating it, why jeopardize that. Also, I agree with the earlier point made about the Northwoods lakes that rely solely on natural reproduction, but already have so much stacked against them (spearing, advanced angling pressure, more pressure than ever, lack of spawning habitat). If anyone has any context or justification information for why the DNR is proposing this, that would be helpful to see. It can’t be biological b/c without question, fish in the Northern Zone are spawning throughout May.
Items on the ballot for the Conservation Congress do not all come from the DNR. Various groups propose items to be voted on. This could be something coming from the hospitality industry for instance, thinking an earlier opener may put "heads in beds" for lodging and restaurants. |
|
| |
|
Location: Vilas | Im 100% against the earlier opening of the muskie season. The spawn is the most important part of their life, leave them alone to do it. Ive heard some of the reason`s for the earlier date, more fishing oppurtunities, more tourism $$ for the area. Memorial weekend until ice up is at least six months of fishing, plenty of oppurtunity there to chase them. I doubt many will travel from the southern part of the state to chase after fish here in the middle of the spawn. If a business is struggling, 3 extra weeks of muskie fishing isnt going to save it. IMO, everyone that considers themselves a muskie man should be 100% against the earlier opening!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2327
Location: Chisholm, MN | I don't fish Wisconsin but that would be a terrible regulation. I'd actually like to see MN push it back one week even. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Duluth | This would be an awful move, terrible. But I don't live in sconny, just work here and fish a bundary water that already has earlier opener than MN. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 104
| Not a Sconny either, but unless there is a sound scientific justification provided by somebody, this feels like the good idea club run amok. Hard to keep fishing musky when we try to pick them off while they're spawning. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8782
| There aren't many people in N/WI prior to Memorial day anyway, and the locals know better, so I don't see this killing the fisheries. That doesn't mean it's a good idea though. |
|
| |
|
| bloatlord - 1/30/2023 3:52 PM
Not a Sconny either, but unless there is a sound scientific justification provided by somebody, this feels like the good idea club run amok. Hard to keep fishing musky when we try to pick them off while they're spawning.
Under Scott Walker and the GOP controlled legislature, roughly 40% of the scientists working for WI DNR were fired, per Scientific American magazine. A waters scientist who retired from the DNR about 5 years ago told me over half of the scientists who worked on water issues were fired. He felt he was not because of almost 35 years on the job. He claimed that the former DNR secretary under Walker told the employees that it was not the DNR's job to do science. She made similar public statements as well. Not a lot has changed, despite a new governor because the same people in the legislature control the purse strings. |
|
| |
|
| North of 8 - 1/30/2023 4:21 PM
bloatlord - 1/30/2023 3:52 PM
Not a Sconny either, but unless there is a sound scientific justification provided by somebody, this feels like the good idea club run amok. Hard to keep fishing musky when we try to pick them off while they're spawning.
Under Scott Walker and the GOP controlled legislature, roughly 40% of the scientists working for WI DNR were fired, per Scientific American magazine. A waters scientist who retired from the DNR about 5 years ago told me over half of the scientists who worked on water issues were fired. He felt he was not because of almost 35 years on the job. He claimed that the former DNR secretary under Walker told the employees that it was not the DNR's job to do science. She made similar public statements as well. Not a lot has changed, despite a new governor because the same people in the legislature control the purse strings.
Wow!!!!!
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 164
| Minnesotas a large state North to South. If anything they should adopt a border for fishing season like Wisconsin has. Pushing back Muskie opener another week to me doesn't make sense except maybe in the way north range of Minnesota. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1399
Location: Brighton CO. | The most important thing the late opener does is keeping people from poaching them in non fishing manner. In late spring years fish can be still spawning at the opener and if you ever seen a Muskie spawn you can reach out a touch them with a sick and they won't move. (I've seen people do this in April) Years ago Dick Rose caught a state record Walleye in November when they opened it up it still had evidence of spawning and that how he got caught. Old time DNR's messed up a lot of things like platting Carp, allowing bait people to sale Rusty Crawfish and on and on. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8782
| It's one thing to allow some things when you just don't know any better. It's another thing entirely to allow them when you do. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 159
| No skin in the game here either as a MN resident. I do not travel to WI to muskie fish.
Early May seems awful early to target a muskie. Heck, some of our lakes still have ice here in early May. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 760
| Under normal circumstances, I would agree, bad idea. But, take into consideration what some of these businesses have been through, through no fault of there own,the last couple of years, with the ridiculous lock downs and mandates that damaged small businesses throughout the country. This could in a sense be viewed as a small business revival plan. What happened to some of those small businesses was just awful. Kdawg |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | kdawg - 1/31/2023 4:49 PM
Under normal circumstances, I would agree, bad idea. But, take into consideration what some of these businesses have been through, through no fault of there own,the last couple of years, with the ridiculous lock downs and mandates that damaged small businesses throughout the country. This could in a sense be viewed as a small business revival plan. What happened to some of those small businesses was just awful. Kdawg
Fishing skyrocketed during COVID and since the border was closed they went stateside.
I am sure opening up the season will give the darkhouse spearers some confidence to continue to want to bring Wisconsin into their fold. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 760
| ToddM - 1/31/2023 5:03 PM
kdawg - 1/31/2023 4:49 PM
Under normal circumstances, I would agree, bad idea. But, take into consideration what some of these businesses have been through, through no fault of there own,the last couple of years, with the ridiculous lock downs and mandates that damaged small businesses throughout the country. This could in a sense be viewed as a small business revival plan. What happened to some of those small businesses was just awful. Kdawg
Fishing skyrocketed during COVID and since the border was closed they went stateside.
I am sure opening up the season will give the darkhouse spearers some confidence to continue to want to bring Wisconsin into their fold. |
|
| |
|
| kdawg - 1/31/2023 4:49 PM
Under normal circumstances, I would agree, bad idea. But, take into consideration what some of these businesses have been through, through no fault of there own,the last couple of years, with the ridiculous lock downs and mandates that damaged small businesses throughout the country. This could in a sense be viewed as a small business revival plan. What happened to some of those small businesses was just awful. Kdawg
Interestingly, some small business in northern WI did quite well. Fishing boomed, The Musky Shop had record sales. The small resorts on our chain with a few cabins had their best years in decades. Obviously, that is not the case for all. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1760
Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | In our neck of the woods(Polk/St Croix), I'm guessing has very little natural reproduction. The bass crowd hammer pre season muskies. I see it every year. I'm usually turkey hunting or walleye fishing, but I see the pics from friends. They dropped our stocking in this area in 2006. To lump our area with Hayward and NE Wisconsin has always been crazy. I know they drew a line in when, the early '80's.
They micro manage walleye and panfish is it asking too much to do the same with the state fish?
Just a thought. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | kdawg - 1/31/2023 5:15 PM
ToddM - 1/31/2023 5:03 PM
kdawg - 1/31/2023 4:49 PM
Under normal circumstances, I would agree, bad idea. But, take into consideration what some of these businesses have been through, through no fault of there own,the last couple of years, with the ridiculous lock downs and mandates that damaged small businesses throughout the country. This could in a sense be viewed as a small business revival plan. What happened to some of those small businesses was just awful. Kdawg
Fishing skyrocketed during COVID and since the border was closed they went stateside.
I am sure opening up the season will give the darkhouse spearers some confidence to continue to want to bring Wisconsin into their fold. A" dark house" spearer has no seasons, it's always open. kdawg
True but they want to expand their boundaries. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 333
Location: SE Wisc | To those who bring up “micro managing” what exactly do you mean? Many of you bring up the bass guys that are taking muskies so are you proposing changing the bass seasons to coincide with Muskie spawning? Do you mean having different openers for individual lakes based off of when the resident fish typically spawn?(that would never work). I’ve always liked the phrase “keep it simple stupid”. Not sure the average angler would keep up with all the additional regulations let alone abide by them. Same with our WI DNR.
As for the small businesses up there. I’d imagine for the tourist industry(which is what we’re talking about) they did better than they’ve done in a long time. Canadian anglers all stayed home and targeted lower 48 destinations. The housing market was insane, and it wasn’t any different up north. Did any of you try buying a lake property up there? Good luck without an all cash offer we’ll over asking price and no contingency. So I’m not buying the “small business revival” BS. Why destroy a resource long term for a short term and minor potential economic growth. |
|
| |
|
| I think the micro managing reference was regarding the individual lake regulations. For instance, there is a 10-10-25 panfish limit on the chain where I live, but not on other lakes in the same township. Pike size is another example of that.
I am going to search again, maybe this time I can get a better handle on why this is being proposed. I did talk to a warden, who fishes musky. He didn't know reasoning but said if he got a chance to talk to a biologist he would see what he could find out but he reminded me that initiatives like this don't have to come from DNR.
There is a spot right next to my dock where we often see musky spawning in the spring. Time of year varies, depends on water temps. Sunny days accelerate the spawn. |
|
| |
|
Location: Vilas | North of 8 - 2/1/2023 8:13 AM
I think the micro managing reference was regarding the individual lake regulations. For instance, there is a 10-10-25 panfish limit on the chain where I live, but not on other lakes in the same township. Pike size is another example of that.
I am going to search again, maybe this time I can get a better handle on why this is being proposed. I did talk to a warden, who fishes musky. He didn't know reasoning but said if he got a chance to talk to a biologist he would see what he could find out but he reminded me that initiatives like this don't have to come from DNR.
There is a spot right next to my dock where we often see musky spawning in the spring. Time of year varies, depends on water temps. Sunny days accelerate the spawn.
I emailed our local biologist about this last year... his response was Jordan Weeks email address |
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Duluth | I think it's pretty well demonstrated that more angler contact means more mortality, longer season means more contact and more mortality. So if seasons are going to be longer, stocking efforts better compensate, wheres the cash for the extra fish come from, who raises and stocks them?
Questions like this are another great reason musky anglers should join MI. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1399
Location: Brighton CO. | I took a trip a couple years ago to Wisconsin (a last minute trip) the border was closed and everyone had to fish I the lower 48.
I could not find a cabin to rent on a good muskie lake so we started out in Racine (my dad's old home town) headed up North a night in Rhinelander a night in St. Germain then back home. The resorts were doing good. Dinner was good but to find a place to eat lunch? Most of St. Germain was closed for lunch we had to eat in Sayner. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 554
Location: WI | I guess I’m skeptical that opening it a couple weeks sooner will bring that much more pressure on them. I’m sure there are already people jumping the gun with pike fishing open and it seems to be a time of the year where true incidental catches aren’t uncommon. I’m also skeptical of an economic benefit so overall I don’t really see the point.
Edited by raftman 2/1/2023 10:57 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 159
| Managing walleye and panfish are completely different than managing muskies. Walleyes and panfish are generally targeted for harvest, muskies are not.
Walleyes and panfish are also often targeted during the winter during ice fishing season, muskies rarely are.
I've personally never targeted a muskie before about June, simply because the season was never open. Even if it was, the water seems way too cold. Let them do their spawning thing and reproduce without being harassed by lures. |
|
| |
|
Location: PA Angler | Back then we didn’t have a very good stocking program for Muskie. The season never closed. Every time I fished the bodies of water that had them back then, never even saw one.
They started stocking and keeping up with certain waters that are healthy with them from their surveys. These waters get stocked every year and are very good populations of them. I finally even see them swimming or jumping around. Plus I think what helped was they changed how many you get to keep and size limits. Still with no closed season.
As far as natural reproduction going on IMO is very little activity. It’s more the stocking program that is helping big time. |
|
| |
|
| Story in the Rhinelander paper yesterday stated that the reason the question about the earlier season is being asked is that the fisheries folks were hearing from anglers in the north that they see a lot of people supposedly fishing for bass now that the season is open year round for catch and release bass fishing that are actually targeting musky.
Living on a musky lake in the north, I really have only seen something like this once or twice. Couple years ago I was pan fishing and three people in a boat were tossing pretty large top water baits to an area of emerging vegetation, but what was suspicious was the giant musky sized net. But, that might have been the only net they owned? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 159
| North of 8 - 2/8/2023 1:15 PM
Story in the Rhinelander paper yesterday stated that the reason the question about the earlier season is being asked is that the fisheries folks were hearing from anglers in the north that they see a lot of people supposedly fishing for bass now that the season is open year round for catch and release bass fishing that are actually targeting musky.
Living on a musky lake in the north, I really have only seen something like this once or twice. Couple years ago I was pan fishing and three people in a boat were tossing pretty large top water baits to an area of emerging vegetation, but what was suspicious was the giant musky sized net. But, that might have been the only net they owned?
Not uncommon at all for a bass angler to pile into a muskie. I don't think anyone would argue that.
The red flag in your situation would be the presence of a muskie sized net. If the season is closed, and you aren't targeting them, why do you have a muskie net? Because its only one you own? Not a chance. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 35
| I love the replies from the "on the chain where I live" guy. Must meet!
Edited by Shroomskie 2/8/2023 4:16 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2
| If the prime motive to make this change is to boost tourism in the Northern Zone, it's not going to work. Back in the day, that first Saturday in May was often accompanied by tens of thousands of folks heading North to go fishing. Friday night used to look like the last scene from "Field of Dreams" heading North. But, almost none of us were going musky fishing. Walleye anglers were the bulk of THAT annual ritual . Since then, family resorts have all but dissappeared, and Walleye fishing generally has declined ( or at east posession limits have). Affordable weekend lodging on the water has gone away, and fuel prices also push the traffic down. My point is that the traffic is already way down for that first Saturday in May over the last 40 years. Opening Musky that weekend is NOT going to reverse/fix that trend in angling traffic and tourism $$$$ in a meaningful way.
I hooked my first musky in the 1970's...Chased them ever since. From this old man's perpspective, these CLEARLY are the 'good old days' of Musky fishing. Our 7 yesr old Grandson caught one off of our dock last year for pete's sake. That story would have been laughed off when i was that age. I believe that the late/split opener has been a major contributor in making musky fishing better.
Lastly, on our chain of lakes, the later opener has created a form of 'Musky Watching' ritual much like our Eagle nest watching. We get our docks, lifts, and boats in the water, and then many of us will cruise slowly and quietly near spawning areas and see how many Muskies we can spot, and estimate the sizes of the biggest ones we see. We have watched paired muskies swimming under our dock on Memorial Day. it's a beautiful thing. Zero Muskies have been stocked in our chain for almost 50 years, and the numbers are FINE. I would shudder to soon see others 'casting' at these vulnerable fish...like i was nauseated when watching two spearing boats come into our area of the lake a few years ago. WHY push back against such a successful regulation change (the split opener) for that species? it just seems idiotic. |
|
| |
Change of Season Opener for Northern WI