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Location: oswego, il | Been having this discussion with some friends. My take on live bait is if you are using it then that presentation takes priority over casting. I do both but how fast I move the boat is dictated by the live bait. I think one of the big mistakes people do with live bait is move the boat too fast making casting and covering water the priority over presenting the live bait properly. Can you catch a musky on a sucker moving the boat 1+mph? Yes. I think you will catch more on the suckers if you move the boat no faster than .3mph. I always have the GPS speed displayed on my front graph for that reason. |
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| .2 to .3mph seems to be about as fast as you can go and still have the sucker swimming, rather than being dragged. Was out on Sunday with a sucker and after about 3 1/2 hours looked around and thought about how much less area I had covered than if I had been going the normal pace. Something grabbed the sucker after a couple hours, took it down but released it, only pulling out the hook on one side.
As to which has priority, at almost $10 per, think you want to give the sucker priority.
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Posts: 386
| I run .6 - .7 without a problem, keeps the sucker swimming and out of weeds. When it gets stupid cold and the sucker gets sluggish then I'll slow down. At that point I'm usually not casting as that's the realm of guides and reels freezing. Also, don't want to bring the kids with at that point so I can't have them fishing a sucker while I cast anyways  |
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Posts: 351
Location: Vilas County, WI | I would agree with above. I shoot for no more than .5 MPH.
It does suck that you can't cover as much water; Gotta pick out your best spots. |
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Posts: 1341
| Years ago I was fishing with some friends on the Eagle River Chain casting and we had a Sucker out and the guy running the boat takes off with the trolling motor at good clip and this Sucker was not vertical (AKA we were trolling) went 50- 60 feet and bam a friend caught a 33" Muskie won the prize for biggest fish at the fall board meeting. Good thing the warden wasn't looking. |
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| chuckski - 10/12/2022 10:29 AM
Years ago I was fishing with some friends on the Eagle River Chain casting and we had a Sucker out and the guy running the boat takes off with the trolling motor at good clip and this Sucker was not vertical (AKA we were trolling) went 50- 60 feet and bam a friend caught a 33" Muskie won the prize for biggest fish at the fall board meeting. Good thing the warden wasn't looking.
Yeah, before they changed the regs for trolling in northern WI, that was an issue, and not always evenly enforced. The warden at the time in Oneida County said his understanding was that if you were "position" fishing, use of a trolling motor to keep you on structure while fishing a sucker was OK, but if you were steadily working a weedline with the trolling motor on, that was trolling and not allowed. The warden in Vilas County gave my nephew a more lenient interpretation of the policy. Jim Saric on one of his shows expressed his concern and said he would not fish suckers in northern WI because of his concern with the regs, prior to trolling being allowed. |
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Posts: 20212
Location: oswego, il | Shore setting and anchoring are a big part of sucker fishing in the Northwoods. I know of a small lake 50 that was caught yesterday shore setting. |
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Posts: 1341
| There are fish that go all summer staying away from our lures that get suckered into eating a Sucker. Part of that is the depth we fish our Suckers. Tony Rizzo caught a lot of Muskies fishing from shore and even though he was fishing from shore he was fishing deep. Most diving lures are floating divers, Tony's were countdown. Fishing deep is the way to catch big Muskies in smaller waters. |
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Location: oswego, il | chuckski - 10/13/2022 11:29 AM
There are fish that go all summer staying away from our lures that get suckered into eating a Sucker. Part of that is the depth we fish our Suckers. Tony Rizzo caught a lot of Muskies fishing from shore and even though he was fishing from shore he was fishing deep. Most diving lures are floating divers, Tony's were countdown. Fishing deep is the way to catch big Muskies in smaller waters.
One of the people in this party fished with Tony, they were using his methods and on one of his lakes. |
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Posts: 303
| ToddM - 10/13/2022 1:37 AM
Shore setting and anchoring are a big part of sucker fishing in the Northwoods. I know of a small lake 50 that was caught yesterday shore setting.
Maybe I am reading this wrong - but what is "shore setting"? |
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Location: oswego, il | jvlast15 - 10/13/2022 3:00 PM
ToddM - 10/13/2022 1:37 AM
Shore setting and anchoring are a big part of sucker fishing in the Northwoods. I know of a small lake 50 that was caught yesterday shore setting.
Maybe I am reading this wrong - but what is "shore setting"?
Fishing with suckers from shore but you set the lines using a boat. One advantage to this as was the case two days ago it was very windy so boat speed would be an issue fishing good spots. |
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Location: Vilas |
Shore setting and anchoring are a big part of sucker fishing in the Northwoods. I know of a small lake 50 that was caught yesterday shore setting.
Maybe I am reading this wrong - but what is "shore setting"?
Fishing with suckers from shore but you set the lines using a boat. One advantage to this as was the case two days ago it was very windy so boat speed would be an issue fishing good spots.
so they set the hooks from shore?? as per the regulations with quick strike rigs, you must set the hook immediately upon knowing there is a strike. |
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Posts: 1341
| Tony (Rizzo) goes into detail in his about this in his 1987 booklet The Secret Method and he also touches on this in his book Secrets of a Muskie Guide. Tony caught his largest fish with this method while eating a sandwich on a cold October day. I believe Tony came up fishing this way from fishing with old time great Bill Hoeft founder of "Bill's Musky Club". |
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Location: oswego, il | sukrchukr - 10/13/2022 3:32 PM
Shore setting and anchoring are a big part of sucker fishing in the Northwoods. I know of a small lake 50 that was caught yesterday shore setting.
Maybe I am reading this wrong - but what is "shore setting"?
Fishing with suckers from shore but you set the lines using a boat. One advantage to this as was the case two days ago it was very windy so boat speed would be an issue fishing good spots.
so they set the hooks from shore?? as per the regulations with quick strike rigs, you must set the hook immediately upon knowing there is a strike.
Circle hooks are also legal and yes you set the hook from shore. You can also get in the boat once hooked so you don't drag them to shore. Circle hooks give you time for that as well. |
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Posts: 1341
| I guess I should say Tony was famous for his single (kill) hooks AKA 1987. It would be tough to get the right angle for a quick strike rig from shore and to get in the boat you better hurry. Circle hooks people swear by them or at them. Never used them but I've seen the pro's and con's. |
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Location: Vilas | I run across shore fishermen a few times each fall.... Ive never seen a single one of them set the hook from shore.
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Posts: 415
Location: MN | Under 0.3 mph seems quite slow. At that speed you better know a fish is right there (and catchable) or you could easily waste a feeding window in-between fish. I can see if you are camped on a fish or pack of fish on a smaller spot, but even then you run the risk of spending a lot of time on an uncatchable fish (for example, if it was just caught).
In my experience, > 1 mph they tire out (and die) relatively quickly, especially in warmer water. I try to not go that fast for any significant amount of time.
I like the 0.5-0.9 mph range. You can cover some water but it doesn't kill the sucker so fast. Obviously you can slow down if you're on a sweet spot or have a fish following.
That being said, I've heard of at least one case where a slower moving boat (~0.3 mph) had comparatively more success on the same water during more extreme weather conditions. It's certainly worth keeping an open mind and trying slower if you know you're on fish but not getting bit. |
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Posts: 1341
| The guides really earn there money in the fall clients cast lures guides runs the boat and keeps the Suckers in the right spot. |
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Location: oswego, il | JGlass - 10/13/2022 8:03 PM
I run across shore fishermen a few times each fall.... Ive never seen a single one of them set the hook from shore.
I stand corrected on this my buddy did get in the boat to.catch the fish.
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Location: oswego, il | nar160 - 10/14/2022 11:19 AM
Under 0.3 mph seems quite slow. At that speed you better know a fish is right there (and catchable) or you could easily waste a feeding window in-between fish. I can see if you are camped on a fish or pack of fish on a smaller spot, but even then you run the risk of spending a lot of time on an uncatchable fish (for example, if it was just caught).
In my experience, > 1 mph they tire out (and die) relatively quickly, especially in warmer water. I try to not go that fast for any significant amount of time.
I like the 0.5-0.9 mph range. You can cover some water but it doesn't kill the sucker so fast. Obviously you can slow down if you're on a sweet spot or have a fish following.
That being said, I've heard of at least one case where a slower moving boat (~0.3 mph) had comparatively more success on the same water during more extreme weather conditions. It's certainly worth keeping an open mind and trying slower if you know you're on fish but not getting bit.
Suckers are not a water covering proposition. Most lakes in Northern Wisconsin are small and you are fishing good spots on those lakes. No need to cover water when you know fish are usually there. Towing a sucker might get you a fish and I've done it but my best success with live bait has come going very slowly in proven areas. |
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Location: Vilas | ToddM - 10/14/2022 6:59 PM
JGlass - 10/13/2022 8:03 PM
I run across shore fishermen a few times each fall.... Ive never seen a single one of them set the hook from shore.
I stand corrected on this my buddy did get in the boat to.catch the fish.
I think shore fishing should be another topic that needs discussion....
but to the original post.... I agree that .3mph is a good speed when dragging a sucker |
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| A few years ago on the show "Due North", one of the hosts, believe it was Laura Shara(sp?), joined some guys fishing on the Madison chain with suckers. They had on waders, put folding chairs in the water to hold rods and gently tossed suckers out and waited. They caught at least one musky if memory serves. Looked like a nice fall day.
Not sure I would want to do today where temp is in low 30s. I am preparing to go help my neighbor with his dock and lifts, will spend about two hours in the lake but at least I will be moving to help keep warm. |
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| My Grandparents took the dock out around my birthday in mid October but kept the boat on shore ready to fish later then that.
I could never understand on my trips up north in mid September and people would be taking out there docks. I was talking to one of my sisters about living up north and her reply was "why would you want to live in a place when all the fun happens in three months? My reply was "what's wrong with September, October, and November"? Add that to your three months plus May and I do like to ice fish. Take a trip to California during mud season perfect. |
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| chuckski - 10/15/2022 8:59 AM
My Grandparents took the dock out around my birthday in mid October but kept the boat on shore ready to fish later then that.
I could never understand on my trips up north in mid September and people would be taking out there docks. I was talking to one of my sisters about living up north and her reply was "why would you want to live in a place when all the fun happens in three months? My reply was "what's wrong with September, October, and November"? Add that to your three months plus May and I do like to ice fish. Take a trip to California during mud season perfect.
Well, a lot of folks take their docks out when they have help available. Also, you can wait too long. Couple years ago, I waited until November and had to break half an inch of ice all around my lifts. Not pleasant to have that stuff hitting your legs. Plus some reservoirs start the draw down early. My brother in law has a seasonal cottage on the Chippewa Flowage and he said when he closed up last week, they had drawn it down three feet. That can make it hard to get stuff out. |
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Posts: 1264
Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | Sometimes slow is effective. A few years ago we were slowly drifting a break in 30 feet of water, suckers about 20 feet down, and casting shallow. Saw a fish on locater come up from bottom to sucker, hit spot lock and waited. sucker got agitated, but fish dropped out of sight. Over the next hour, still on spot lock, we had a visit every 5 to 10 minutes on one of our suckers, each time it would look and drop back to bottom. Finally at the 1 hour mark it took the sucker and we boated a fat 42"er. Very frustrating at times but SLOW worked. |
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| ghoti - 10/15/2022 11:13 AM
Sometimes slow is effective. A few years ago we were slowly drifting a break in 30 feet of water, suckers about 20 feet down, and casting shallow. Saw a fish on locater come up from bottom to sucker, hit spot lock and waited. sucker got agitated, but fish dropped out of sight. Over the next hour, still on spot lock, we had a visit every 5 to 10 minutes on one of our suckers, each time it would look and drop back to bottom. Finally at the 1 hour mark it took the sucker and we boated a fat 42"er. Very frustrating at times but SLOW worked.
Interesting. I was out last week and moving slow over an area with 2 cribs. Something came up and grabbed the sucker but quickly left go. Then a bit later seemed to be chasing it around. Makes me wonder if I should have been more patient. I hung around for 5-10 minutes, but maybe longer would have been effective. |
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| When the water first gets cold two things seem to happen (at least with me) Muskies pick up and drop Suckers or they grab them by the tail. |
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Location: oswego, il | JGlass - 10/15/2022 7:08 AM
ToddM - 10/14/2022 6:59 PM
JGlass - 10/13/2022 8:03 PM
I run across shore fishermen a few times each fall.... Ive never seen a single one of them set the hook from shore.
I stand corrected on this my buddy did get in the boat to.catch the fish.
I think shore fishing should be another topic that needs discussion....
but to the original post.... I agree that .3mph is a good speed when dragging a sucker
Agree could be it's own topic and 20 years ago on this forum it was. My only point for bringing it up.was it's a method that catches fish that goes 0mph. |
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Location: oswego, il | chuckski - 10/15/2022 12:59 PM
When the water first gets cold two things seem to happen (at least with me) Muskies pick up and drop Suckers or they grab them by the tail.
I always have a hook around the rear dorsal area but even then it's not far enough back sometimes. |
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Sucker speed