Woooo wee.
Analfin
Posted 10/1/2022 2:15 PM (#1013349)
Subject: Woooo wee.




Posts: 11


Wow. That walleye tournament ohio

Edited by Analfin 10/1/2022 2:26 PM
danmuskyman
Posted 10/1/2022 2:48 PM (#1013350 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 617


Location: Madison, WI
Scumbags
7.62xJay
Posted 10/1/2022 6:49 PM (#1013356 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.





Posts: 457


Location: NW WI
Pretty impressive how civil everyone was though.
sworrall
Posted 10/1/2022 9:13 PM (#1013359 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.





Posts: 32743


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Crazy videos. These guys have scammed up hundreds of thousands of dollars, looks like. They are going to need a good attorney.
ToddM
Posted 10/2/2022 9:18 AM (#1013369 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.





Posts: 20167


Location: oswego, il
There are plenty of good people in this sport being overshadowed by all the arsholes.


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North of 8
Posted 10/2/2022 9:42 AM (#1013370 - in reply to #1013369)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Lawyers are going to be busy. Past tournament second place teams will be getting calls from attorneys anxious to sue.
CincySkeez
Posted 10/2/2022 10:46 AM (#1013372 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.





Posts: 573


Location: Duluth
Absolutely nuts. Money and fishin....things get funny fast
mm3
Posted 10/2/2022 6:19 PM (#1013376 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: RE: Woooo wee.




Posts: 370


Location: Northern Illinois
The thing that strikes me the most is that it is a mixture of sport/craft and theft/fraud. I could see one or the other, but not the two together. These guys have to love the sport and the craft - don't they? So how could they mix theft/fraud in with it?

Edited by mm3 10/2/2022 6:33 PM
North of 8
Posted 10/2/2022 6:31 PM (#1013377 - in reply to #1013376)
Subject: RE: Woooo wee.




mm3 - 10/2/2022 6:19 PM

The thing that strikes me the most is that it is a mixture of sport/craft, and theft/fraud. I could see one or the other, but not the two together. These guys have to love the sport and the craft - don't they? So how could they mix theft/fraud in with it?


That's easy, MONEY

Edited by North of 8 10/2/2022 6:32 PM
tundrawalker00
Posted 10/2/2022 7:21 PM (#1013379 - in reply to #1013377)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 497


Location: Ludington, MI
They will need two attorneys. The first one to roll will implicate the second in conspiracy to do this in multiple states, which will bring federal charges. Then they'll need civil attorneys after that, probably.
North of 8
Posted 10/2/2022 7:43 PM (#1013380 - in reply to #1013379)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




tundrawalker00 - 10/2/2022 7:21 PM

They will need two attorneys. The first one to roll will implicate the second in conspiracy to do this in multiple states, which will bring federal charges. Then they'll need civil attorneys after that, probably.


If one rolls, then maybe fed charges. But, absent a statement of guilt, I doubt the feds will take. If they keep their mouths shut, damage will be limited to this one tournament. Still could face criminal charges though.
TCESOX
Posted 10/2/2022 8:43 PM (#1013381 - in reply to #1013376)
Subject: RE: Woooo wee.





Posts: 1157


mm3 - 10/2/2022 6:19 PM

The thing that strikes me the most is that it is a mixture of sport/craft and theft/fraud. I could see one or the other, but not the two together. These guys have to love the sport and the craft - don't they? So how could they mix theft/fraud in with it?


Just displaying their moral character.
miket55
Posted 10/2/2022 8:56 PM (#1013382 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 1177


Location: E. Tenn
There was a bass guy out west who was tearing up the circuit for a couple years... only issue was he couldn't catch $*it if there was somebody different in the boat..

Karma smacked him pretty hard too..
chuckski
Posted 10/2/2022 9:00 PM (#1013383 - in reply to #1013382)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 1138


miket55 - 10/2/2022 8:56 PM

There was a bass guy out west who was tearing up the circuit for a couple years... only issue was he couldn't catch $*it if there was somebody different in the boat..

Karma smacked him pretty hard too.. I think they figured out he was snagging them.
Witch is a no go.
mm3
Posted 10/2/2022 9:00 PM (#1013384 - in reply to #1013382)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 370


Location: Northern Illinois
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrwjiO1MCVs
raftman
Posted 10/3/2022 9:04 AM (#1013392 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 504


Location: WI
Forcing weights down a fish’s throat and peeing matches over technology. 2022 makes tournament fishing sound fun.

Edited by raftman 10/3/2022 9:05 AM
North of 8
Posted 10/3/2022 9:46 AM (#1013395 - in reply to #1013392)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




The one tournament I have watched bits of that seems very straight forward is the Major League Fishing bass tournament. Judge in every boat and a camera man. Fish weighed immediately. Even a time penalty if the fish comes unhooked and hits the deck or if angler is too rough in handling. Obviously, a big money endeavor for elite anglers but don't see any way to game that system.

Cheating has been going on since tournaments for money have been going on. Remember back in the 70s, a guide in the Eagle River/Three Lakes area allegedly came up with a scam where he would pre-fish and if he caught a musky, would take it to a bay, run wire through its jaw and attach the wire to a cinder block. He would then return during tournament and pick the fish up with the net like he was catching it. Quick cut with a side cutter and he had the fish.
ToddM
Posted 10/3/2022 10:46 AM (#1013406 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.





Posts: 20167


Location: oswego, il
It makes you wonder how many tournaments were won or participants improved their position by adding weight to fish in any weight tournament. These guys added too much weight but I would be willing to bet there are some who know just how much to add and not make it suspicious.
tundrawalker00
Posted 10/3/2022 11:27 AM (#1013408 - in reply to #1013380)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 497


Location: Ludington, MI
Imagine you're one of these two guys and you've stooped to this together. How much do you trust the other not to roll and point at you? I mean, I trust my fishing partner but do I trust him with my earnings for the last three years and my freedom for the next five years? What's the saying about honor among thieves?
North of 8
Posted 10/3/2022 11:28 AM (#1013409 - in reply to #1013406)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




ToddM - 10/3/2022 10:46 AM

It makes you wonder how many tournaments were won or participants improved their position by adding weight to fish in any weight tournament. These guys added too much weight but I would be willing to bet there are some who know just how much to add and not make it suspicious.


It certainly was not a spur of the moment, impulse kind of thing. The director said they wrapped those 12oz sinkers in filets, so they didn't clack together and raise suspicion. I had wondered why they stuffed filets in, thinking that did not add a lot of weight, but made sense after reading his comment.
jvlast15
Posted 10/3/2022 11:38 AM (#1013410 - in reply to #1013409)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 297


They almost cant face any penalty from past tournaments, can they? How would there be any proof that they cheated in that specific tournament?
miket55
Posted 10/3/2022 12:58 PM (#1013414 - in reply to #1013383)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 1177


Location: E. Tenn
chuckski - 10/2/2022 10:00 PM

miket55 - 10/2/2022 8:56 PM

There was a bass guy out west who was tearing up the circuit for a couple years... only issue was he couldn't catch $*it if there was somebody different in the boat..

Karma smacked him pretty hard too.. I think they figured out he was snagging them.
Witch is a no go.


That story:

https://www.themeateater.com/fish/bass/big-bass-legend-mike-long-exp...
North of 8
Posted 10/3/2022 1:45 PM (#1013415 - in reply to #1013410)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




jvlast15 - 10/3/2022 11:38 AM

They almost cant face any penalty from past tournaments, can they? How would there be any proof that they cheated in that specific tournament?


I don't see how they could, at least as far as criminal. Maybe a fellow competitor could file a civil suit, but seems like that would be a long shot, unless one of them has said something to someone else. If they keep their mouths shut, don't know how anyone could prove past events were won through fraud.
ToddM
Posted 10/3/2022 2:27 PM (#1013417 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.





Posts: 20167


Location: oswego, il
The memes being created over this are hilarious. One is a boy band with the cheaters, the bass guy mentioned above and a recent to notoriety musky guy heads transposed.

Cheating goes everywhere there is a way to be best at it. In business especially. Being a racing fan I watch the Dale Jr. Download and he gets right into the cheating that's gone on in Nascar with his guests and he gets them to tell it. There's been drivers who've crashed in late model competition bad enough that the mercury in the frame rails spilled out. Bio hazard!

Edited by ToddM 10/3/2022 2:29 PM
Cover Dog
Posted 10/3/2022 6:14 PM (#1013422 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 15


Location: Chardon, Ohio
The tournament Director said one of the things that was suspicious was this was the only group that did not want to donate their catch to the local food bank.
North of 8
Posted 10/4/2022 7:16 AM (#1013436 - in reply to #1013422)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Cover Dog - 10/3/2022 6:14 PM

The tournament Director said one of the things that was suspicious was this was the only group that did not want to donate their catch to the local food bank.


A sports writer from that area did a lengthy story and he pointed out that the team had already lost an expensive Ranger boat they were supposed to have won from a previous tournament because one failed the polygraph. Lawsuit had been filed to try and get it back.
He also wrote that some speculated that the reason the team had refused to donate their fish after tournaments was that the fish had been caught prior and "stashed", so were not fresh and fit for consumption. Sounds like they had more scams going than just stuffing weights down the gullet.
North of 8
Posted 10/4/2022 7:18 AM (#1013437 - in reply to #1013422)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




[

Edited by North of 8 10/4/2022 7:43 AM
raftman
Posted 10/4/2022 9:11 AM (#1013438 - in reply to #1013437)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 504


Location: WI
Do these tournaments have an option to release the fish? Seems unnecessary to harvest fish with the technology available today.
Muthsky
Posted 10/4/2022 9:22 AM (#1013440 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 46


They will have to either start x-raying fish or pass the fish through a metal detector Reminds me of Tom Brady and Brady-Gate!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFnByQCDjz0&t=18s&ab_channel=KBBOutd...

Edited by Muthsky 10/4/2022 9:33 AM
North of 8
Posted 10/4/2022 9:38 AM (#1013443 - in reply to #1013438)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




raftman - 10/4/2022 9:11 AM

Do these tournaments have an option to release the fish? Seems unnecessary to harvest fish with the technology available today.


Good question. I know that years ago, the Walleye Weekend tournament on Lake Winnebago, sponsored by Mercury, had a big holding tank for the fish brought in live and I think they used a pontoon to take them back out into the lake. But I don't think there was any penalty for fish not surviving. And those that were not alive were donated to food pantry.
Couldn't believe that in the posted youtube video and comments they said up to 8lbs of weight in a fish. That had to look incredibly suspicious to experienced fishermen.
sworrall
Posted 10/4/2022 9:56 AM (#1013444 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.





Posts: 32743


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Many of the Great Lakes, Summer midwest, and western events are harvest oriented with a single limit to weigh in. Walleyes are difficult to keep alive in big water where they get trashed in the livewell, too. Where possible, tournaments have live release boats to transport the fish in oxygenated tanks back out to a release point. The Merc Nationals still do what was described in the post above with excellent results.

Dead fish are cleaned by volunteers and donated to a pantry in the area. In this case, the team always kept their fish, now it's known why.


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chuckski
Posted 10/4/2022 10:27 AM (#1013449 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 1138


Lead poisoning !!!
Cover Dog
Posted 10/4/2022 11:11 AM (#1013454 - in reply to #1013438)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 15


Location: Chardon, Ohio
raftman - 10/4/2022 10:11 AM

Do these tournaments have an option to release the fish? Seems unnecessary to harvest fish with the technology available today.


In one of the interviews it was said that Ohio DNR would not issue a catch and release permit for the tournament.

Edited by Cover Dog 10/4/2022 11:17 AM
kdawg
Posted 10/4/2022 12:27 PM (#1013458 - in reply to #1013454)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 717


Yesterday's Feds would shrug there shoulders and say we got better things to do. These two guys , unfortunately fit the profile of who they would want to prosecute today. Kdawg
North of 8
Posted 10/4/2022 1:02 PM (#1013459 - in reply to #1013458)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




kdawg - 10/4/2022 12:27 PM

Yesterday's Feds would shrug there shoulders and say we got better things to do. These two guys , unfortunately fit the profile of who they would want to prosecute today. Kdawg


The feds have never want anything but slam dunk cases but as to these guys, the sums they have derived from their winnings amount to several hundred thousand dollars, some sources say over $300,000. That kind of money has always attracted attention, at least in banking where I worked for over 30 years. I think the issue is more that they only have real evidence in the one, Ohio based event. If they had it in multi states, than feds would have jurisdiction. No reason the state can't prosecute.
chuckski
Posted 10/4/2022 2:41 PM (#1013464 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 1138


We all use the phrase "we have bigger fish to fry" but sometimes there is so much crime going on you don't have enough cop's or jails. A friend of mine engine (not transmission) on his truck went out and it was a lot of money so rather then getting a new truck/car payment he paid to have it fixed and it took a long time with supply chain issues when the new engine come before they could install it somebody broke it to his truck busted up his steering column trying to steel his truck with no engine and they did get his stereo and back up camera. In Colorado you can steel a 50,000 car post bond and go home with no jail time.
K and M tackle
Posted 10/4/2022 3:16 PM (#1013466 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 53


I like the fact that they have been failing polygraphs for years and always had a suspicion. The guy that runs the tournament Fischer says they were friends of his in an interview. Now what is the point in giving a polygraph if you are not going to do anything about the results? And not a keep a closer eye on it. Seems kinda fishy to me. Maybe they couldn’t afford 9 livescopes so they decided to go with heavy metals to cut cost.
North of 8
Posted 10/4/2022 4:40 PM (#1013468 - in reply to #1013466)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




K and M tackle - 10/4/2022 3:16 PM

I like the fact that they have been failing polygraphs for years and always had a suspicion. The guy that runs the tournament Fischer says they were friends of his in an interview. Now what is the point in giving a polygraph if you are not going to do anything about the results? And not a keep a closer eye on it. Seems kinda fishy to me. Maybe they couldn’t afford 9 livescopes so they decided to go with heavy metals to cut cost.


They did lose a six figure Ranger Boat because one failed the polygraph. He then filed a lawsuit to try and get it back.
OH Musky
Posted 10/4/2022 5:01 PM (#1013470 - in reply to #1013440)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 358


Location: SW Ohio
Muthsky - 10/4/2022 10:22 AM

They will have to either start x-raying fish or pass the fish through a metal detector Reminds me of Tom Brady and Brady-Gate!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFnByQCDjz0&t=18s&ab_channel=KBBOutd...

A handheld metal detector available anywhere would work. Just pass it over the fish. Of course, cut off hooks and any other metal will alert, too, but 8+ lbs of lead would set off all the alarms.
TCESOX
Posted 10/4/2022 6:27 PM (#1013474 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.





Posts: 1157


Not often that a walleye tournament gets a feature on the Today show. Won't be too many places those guys can go, where people won't know who they are. DNR could probably levy a pretty hefty fine and maybe even take away fishing privileges, as they are the ones that regulate tournaments.

Edited by TCESOX 10/4/2022 6:29 PM
chuckski
Posted 10/4/2022 7:00 PM (#1013475 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 1138


The cool thing if they take there fishing/hunting privileges most states honor them and hopefully have no where to go. With the amount of money involved they should be breaking rocks and wearing a ball and chain.
North of 8
Posted 10/4/2022 7:20 PM (#1013476 - in reply to #1013475)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




I guess I don't see where the DNR would be involved. In WI, unless the anglers violated rules on bag limits, fishing methods, size, etc., there would not be grounds for citations. If I catch a walleye on the lake in front of my house tomorrow that meets the size limits, I can stuff it full of lead if I choose. Maybe Ohio is different?
They committed fraud for monetary gain, which could lead to criminal charges, but not game law violations.
TCESOX
Posted 10/4/2022 9:00 PM (#1013479 - in reply to #1013476)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.





Posts: 1157


North of 8 - 10/4/2022 7:20 PM

I guess I don't see where the DNR would be involved. In WI, unless the anglers violated rules on bag limits, fishing methods, size, etc., there would not be grounds for citations. If I catch a walleye on the lake in front of my house tomorrow that meets the size limits, I can stuff it full of lead if I choose. Maybe Ohio is different?
They committed fraud for monetary gain, which could lead to criminal charges, but not game law violations.


True, probably isn't any specific regs, spelled out for something like that. I was just thinking their might be something in all that legaleze that's probably in the granting of the permit, and paperwork signed by participants. You know, all that stuff nobody ever reads.

Edited by TCESOX 10/4/2022 9:02 PM
dickP
Posted 10/5/2022 6:59 AM (#1013484 - in reply to #1013349)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




Posts: 300


Wanton waste comes to mind.Suspect feeding one walleye the fillets of another violates something.
North of 8
Posted 10/5/2022 7:44 AM (#1013486 - in reply to #1013484)
Subject: Re: Woooo wee.




dickP - 10/5/2022 6:59 AM

Wanton waste comes to mind.Suspect feeding one walleye the fillets of another violates something.


Perhaps. But couldn't they claim they were planning on using them, since they did not turn their fish over to the organization? I think a smart lawyer could beat that. Sadly, they have a lot of money from previous tournaments to spend on lawyers.