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Location: Athens, Ohio | Mike and Anne Bartlett have run Red Wing Lodge on LOTW for more than 58 years. They count over 17,000 muskies caught from the resort. Check out this distribution of catches by moon phase from their website: m
http://www.redwinglodge.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Distribution... |
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Posts: 1247
Location: Walker, MN | Very interesting! |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Makes perfect sense to me as 99% fish during the day on lotw. In general fishing with the moon down is preferred over up imo |
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Posts: 2330
Location: Chisholm, MN | I believe the moon has quite the influence on muskie catches, therefore I try to plan my trips around full or new moon when going to lake of the woods. A lot of other people do as well. Which means that there are probably more muskie fisherman (especially good ones) that fish around the new and full moon. More good fisherman = more muskies caught. With this in mind, I believe the numbers could be slightly exaugurated around the moon. |
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Posts: 68
| I agree Kirby. I do feel like moon phases/windows are important and do at times sway activity, especially during steady weather periods. That being said, I think people tend to fish more and harder during moon periods and on the full and new moons. I do the same. I generally try to fish the morning from first light through the first moon phase if it's close enough, take a break and come back for a moon phase/dusk. My point is that myself and many other guys try to take their breaks outside of the minor/major periods which in turn will make numbers off. This summer for me there were times where the moon was extremely important no matter what time of day, but for the most part my best window was the first 2 hours of daylight regardless if there was a major/minor or not. I always say, whatever will drive a guy to fish longer and harder will help to get to a positive outcome. |
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Posts: 1415
Location: Brighton CO. | I've heard some guides can tell the phase of the moon by the amount of boats on the water. I go on tips when I can go, but all my big fish were caught round the full moon and also when moon was underfoot. I last trip I took to a place where I grown up fishing we went to one of our good spots and the year before I took my largest Wisconsin fish, this trip we started our drift and dad goes remember the last year everything looked the same (the wind was ripping from the same direction) then I looked up and the moon was up (I said nothing) we had no action the year before the moon was under foot and I caught my fish on the very first cast. |
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Posts: 358
| take a look at the Frank Schneider results. Always interesting as this is a live go on many different lakes at the same time. Shockingly low % caught during major / minor times.
i believe moon stuff can and will have catch rate effects at times, but also feel local influences trump that most of the time
too me it looks like there are plenty of biting fish at all times that the best option is just to fish when you have time, the more of that you do the better you will do |
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Location: PA Angler | I’ve really not fished at night for them but I’ve noticed some days are better when I see a full moon. Seems interesting to see what others have said. |
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| It would be interesting to know what the barometer was doing during the various moon phases. Unlike moon phases, you cannot predict barometer changes. Many years ago, when I was a young kid, my uncle had a rustic lake cabin in the Harrison Hills. While he had a paper chart of moon phases, had a quality barometer on the wall right by the door. If he saw the barometer start to rise, he was out the door and on the water. |
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Posts: 2330
Location: Chisholm, MN | North of 8 - 9/19/2022 12:04 PM
It would be interesting to know what the barometer was doing during the various moon phases. Unlike moon phases, you cannot predict barometer changes. Many years ago, when I was a young kid, my uncle had a rustic lake cabin in the Harrison Hills. While he had a paper chart of moon phases, had a quality barometer on the wall right by the door. If he saw the barometer start to rise, he was out the door and on the water.
https://www.wunderground.com/forecast/us/mn/hibbing/47.43,-92.95
You can predict the barometric pressure from this chart. |
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| Kirby Budrow - 9/19/2022 12:38 PM
North of 8 - 9/19/2022 12:04 PM
It would be interesting to know what the barometer was doing during the various moon phases. Unlike moon phases, you cannot predict barometer changes. Many years ago, when I was a young kid, my uncle had a rustic lake cabin in the Harrison Hills. While he had a paper chart of moon phases, had a quality barometer on the wall right by the door. If he saw the barometer start to rise, he was out the door and on the water.
https://www.wunderground.com/forecast/us/mn/hibbing/47.43,-92.95
You can predict the barometric pressure from this chart.
Yes, you can get an indication of what it will do. I was thinking in terms of how folks will plan outings, trips, etc. months in advance based on moon phases. Also, those barometric predictions are as accurate as weather forecasts. |
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Posts: 355
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | I'm not sure what to make of it. What is the fishing effort related to catch? I think would need multivariate analysis to tease out the effects of weather: barometric pressure, water temp, cloud cover, temp rise/fall, wind and wind direction and so on to be able to hint at some moon effect.
In my science based view, the only significance moon phase could have is potential correlations with mayfly or chironomid hatches, zooplankton, mysis shrimp or freshwater mussel spawinng activity, or potentially spawning activity of emerald or spottail shiners - all of which would "turn on" the water column. Some of these are annual occurrences that may or may not be associated with the moon in some way, but more likely a combination of temperature and daylight cues.
The success of folks that believe in moon phase is a combination of increased confidence, fishing prime locations, and fishing for a bite, which is always a recipe for success and really is what makes one an effective musky angler to begin with.
Edited by Angling Oracle 9/19/2022 3:25 PM
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Posts: 1415
Location: Brighton CO. | I've heard from guides or pro's or whoever say they never caught a Muskie 54" or over if it was not by the full or new moon.
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Posts: 8785
| I have seen significant action around the majors, especially when the moon is coming up as the sun goes down. Also a significant # of fish with the moon underfoot and the sun directly overhead. I planned an entire season around the full moon and new moon, making sure I hit both mid-week so I would be fishing a few days before and after. I spent 53 days on the water that year with folded up moon charts in my pocket, making sure I hit as many good spots right around the majors and minors as possible. Worst season I ever had. I was pretty new to muskies back then, though, so maybe that had something to do with it. |
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Posts: 530
Location: NW WI | Does no one here keep that specific of a log? All theorized and "proven" factors considered?
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Posts: 57
| I kept a pretty good log last year and this year to date. The two biggest factors I’ve seen are moon under foot is often been the best time for me. Other is pre front and overcast days. Pre front and cloudy days really was not surprising. I had never really gave the moon under foot much value, my opinion of that has now changed. I have not seen a predictable pattern in my log as to the moon phases. IDK |
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Posts: 490
Location: Northern Illinois | OH Muskyman - 9/19/2022 7:40 PM
I kept a pretty good log last year and this year to date. The two biggest factors I’ve seen are moon under foot is often been the best time for me. Other is pre front and overcast days. Pre front and cloudy days really was not surprising. I had never really gave the moon under foot much value, my opinion of that has now changed. I have not seen a predictable pattern in my log as to the moon phases. IDK
My records agree with this. My biggest fish show no moon preference. Weather, of course, and when I like to fish is when "it" happens. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Weather by far the most important factor. By far I personally don't care too much about the phase but Im on a good spot and not dilly dallying for majors/minors. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Weather by far the most important factor. By far I personally don't care too much about the phase but Im on a good spot and not dilly dallying for majors/minors. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I kept a log from around 1987 to 1995 or 6 but quit after discovering all my fish came from wet places on days ending in "Y".
My moon records were based on the old Infisherman 3 days before and after the New, Full moon and the day of the First and Last Quarter all other days being considered days of no lunar influence . No regard was given to major or minor periods because i had to fish whenever I could and not by a table. Of 359 fish 43% were caught on days ( probably evenings ) of no lunar influence . There was a definite increase on the day of the New and Full moon with more fish per rod hour on the New and bigger fish on the Full.
In 40 years I can count on my fingers the number of these stinky slimy bags of teeth and bones I've caught before 11 AM for the period of the log with the exception of a few Muskies Canada outings the fish were caught on my home lakes and the river between them. Getting up at 4 AM every day to go to work meant I wasn't getting up early for a fish. Fortunately finishing work at 1Pm meant I could fish the last 2 hours of daylight 5 days a week. To my way of thinking this period trumps all. Even after retiring I concentrated on afternoons and evenings because if I went out early I was too tired to fish muskie time. I avoided the Full Moon because even after 40 years I'm not good enough to deal with the competition or the Lunitics at the ramp |
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Posts: 613
Location: Michigan | OH Muskyman - 9/19/2022 8:40 PM
I kept a pretty good log last year and this year to date. The two biggest factors I’ve seen are moon under foot is often been the best time for me. Other is pre front and overcast days. Pre front and cloudy days really was not surprising. I had never really gave the moon under foot much value, my opinion of that has now changed. I have not seen a predictable pattern in my log as to the moon phases. IDK
What were your fishing hours when the moon was underfoot compared to fishing hours when the moon was at a different position? |
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Posts: 32887
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Back a very long time ago Jimmy Cairnes and I kept separate logs for a few years with barograph readings factored in while we each were teaching fishing-related classes at regional colleges. We saw moderate activity associated with the Knight's solunar tables which were evident, but the most interesting factor seemed to be 'ripples' in the barometer both up and down that lasted minutes to a half hour or so. Slight but noticeable wind direction changes in direction and velocity when the up or down spike occurs along the trend line. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I couldn't find the edit button but when I said I avoided the full moon that would only apply to the last 10 years when I started out it would be unusual to have more than 3 boats on the lake fishing muskie on a week night . A couple of years back I went to the launch on the Wed. evening of Sept full moon and there were 22 trailers in the park I turned back home. I'm not into taking a number to fish a weed bed. |
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Posts: 57
| I will need to do a little calculating, but just gave last years log a quick look over. Looks like about 25% increase for fish seen, lost and caught while moon under foot compared to when it was not. Many days also that was the only time of day I had any activity. With that said log also shows it is not always the best. But overall moon under foot has proven to be a productive time of day for me and the one thing I have learned from my log records so far.
Side note tomorrow is a big pre front for my area and I plan on fishing daylight till dark, hopefully it pays off. Just going to be hot, guess I’ll just hope for the best the heat doesn’t negate the pre front pressure. Moon under foot isn’t till well after dark so I will not be fishing it after all day on the water.
Edited by OH Muskyman 9/20/2022 12:17 PM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | So do people usually mean directly under foot? I always just considered it below the horizon. I always considered moon visible in the sky in the daytime bad medicine unless of course i caught a fish.
Edited by horsehunter 9/20/2022 12:32 PM
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Posts: 57
| Yes moon under foot is when it’s 180 deg from over head. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I've mentioned this book a few times but read "Moon up Moon down" by John Alden Knight. Also of note, I chat with Dick Pearson some here and there, he doesn't hold much stock in the actual phase, ie, new/full etc.. I also believe that. but will plan trips around when I think I'll be doing most of my fishing during the day or night. You can go on a trip on a full moon week and get your butt kicked just as easily as any other week. 
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Location: Eastern Ontario | More than once fishing the dead sea aka Larry for several uneventful hours I'd look at my phone and say well the good fishing will be over in 10 minutes but as the sun started to go down we would mark the fish that had been lying belly in the mud in 30 feet plus rise to the upper 10 feet and would often catch one, we called it magic time. Reasons ( excuses ) can always be found for our success or failure. He who spends the most time has the most success. Fish hard whenever you can because the day when you no longer can will sneak up on you. Many of my big fish came from unexpected places at unexpected times.
If you want a real challenge take up unicorn hunting. I haven't got one yet not even one on the game cams.
Edited by horsehunter 9/20/2022 1:29 PM
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Posts: 716
| Random thoughts: For me I prefer a new moon over a full moon. Moon underfoot is usually good for some action on a quiet day. Moon up I flat out hate. Give me a sunset with the moon rising an hour later and generally you will light them up big time. As noted in some comments above weather trumps all...the sun and moon go up and down every day and certainly have influence but the right weather doesn't happen every day and is way more significant. Line up everything(moon, weather, location, presentation) and things can really go nuts. I think our stocked MN fish are way more reactive than say Shield fish to what the moon is doing BUT there is certainly an influence up there as well. The moon matters but you still have to be on them to catch them...it just can make it easier. Big fish seem to respond (attitude shift) the most to favorable moon and weather influences. They certainly don't quit eating with the lack of a positive moon or weather influence but seem to ratchet up quite a bit more in comparison to the little tykes when it comes to that stimulation...the little guys are eager MOST of the time.
Edited by bturg 9/20/2022 4:56 PM
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Posts: 164
| Good information. For me, I'm on my 8th year of doing this Muskie stuff with a few military deployments in these 8 years I've actually only been in the sport for 4 or 5 years. Once a year almost every year I get one of them days on the water that are just magical. I don't get out near as much as I'd like and for a guy who only gets out 1 to 3 times a month every month from April to November I feel like I do alright for myself.
I had one day in late August this year on a Northern Minnesota lake where I was a day or two out from New Moon and the fish went absolutely nuts for a 4 hour period. Every spot, multiple fish, caught two that day, saw more fish and should of caught more then I like to admit. Missed a big girl who I believe I got the following day in the exact same spot, at the exact same time on the exact same bait. This day lined up with a new moon phase, a major phase, and had thunder and a storm moving in off in the distance quite a ways. A recipe for an awesome time on the water.
Have had only a few outings in my career where I have had days like this. Where fish are just coming off of every spot. I keep records of not only caught fish but days I am moving fish at a high rate compared to a normal day on the water. Those magical days always for me anyways always happen on a moon event such as full or new (not necessarily the day of, but before, during or after a couple days) and if you can throw in weather on this days it is a pretty awesome experience. And on top of these days I have been out several times as well during those moon events and some decent weather and nothing is moving and the fish don't seem to be there. |
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Posts: 1247
Location: Walker, MN | Angling Oracle - 9/19/2022 3:22 PM
I'm not sure what to make of it. What is the fishing effort related to catch? I think would need multivariate analysis to tease out the effects of weather: barometric pressure, water temp, cloud cover, temp rise/fall, wind and wind direction and so on to be able to hint at some moon effect.
In my science based view, the only significance moon phase could have is potential correlations with mayfly or chironomid hatches, zooplankton, mysis shrimp or freshwater mussel spawinng activity, or potentially spawning activity of emerald or spottail shiners - all of which would "turn on" the water column. Some of these are annual occurrences that may or may not be associated with the moon in some way, but more likely a combination of temperature and daylight cues.
The success of folks that believe in moon phase is a combination of increased confidence, fishing prime locations, and fishing for a bite, which is always a recipe for success and really is what makes one an effective musky angler to begin with.
This describes my initial impression of the graphic.
The graph seems very flat to me, subtle differences could easily be attributed to angler effort. I put some stock in m.u.f., but feel I can predict windows more consistently by paying attention to sky conditions. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | With that many catches over how many years, any differences between the phases may not be 'statistically significant'. However, the numbers 'is what they is'. m |
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Posts: 121
Location: Twin Cities Metro | I have been fishing without regard to moon phases or moon times for a few years now. This is so I don't bias data by angling for pre-located fish at so-called "peak times", etc... I keep detailed logs of all outings, including catches with timestamps. I analyze the data for each season during the winter. This analysis includes catch per unit effort for all time periods, regardless of proximity to a so-called "lunar event".
My data currently show no correlation between muskie activity and lunar position. |
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Posts: 2330
Location: Chisholm, MN | RobertK - 9/27/2022 9:58 AM
I have been fishing without regard to moon phases or moon times for a few years now. This is so I don't bias data by angling for pre-located fish at so-called "peak times", etc... I keep detailed logs of all outings, including catches with timestamps. I analyze the data for each season during the winter. This analysis includes catch per unit effort for all time periods, regardless of proximity to a so-called "lunar event".
My data currently show no correlation between muskie activity and lunar position.
What's your sample size? |
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Posts: 166
Location: Cedarburg, WI. | RobertK hit on something i always wondered and think would be hard to quantify. So hear are my questions. Is it the moon? Or is that people that pay attention to the moon pull up to their best spot or spots and are extra focused? Like precision casts, great figure 8's, etc, etc...
Maybe a combo of both? Again hard to quantify i guess. |
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Posts: 8785
| Well... This is anecdotal evidence at best, but I "discovered" the moon thing many years ago when a girlfriend of mine was looking through my fishing pictures and laughing about how I was wearing the same shirt in a lot of them. She counted. It was embarrassing. Then she said: "and look at how many of your pictures have the moon in the background!" "I usually have good luck when the moon first comes up!" I said. She was one of those hippie wiccan broads who believe the stars and planets align and vampires come out and all that crap... Anyway I started reading about it. Always thought it was more of a saltwater/tidal thing until I read Alden's book. I'd say I might be expecting a fish more during the majors, but I sure don't save good spots or anything, or fish any harder. If musky fishing has taught me anything it's that you had best be ready on every cast because you can go all day without seeing a fish and then put 3 in the net all in a matter of a few minutes for no apparent reason. Believe me, I've been trying to find a reason why fish do what they do when they do it since 1973. The only difference now is I have a few pretty good theories. Some backed by science, some backed by experience, some just because. Like why what hat you're wearing seems to matter... |
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| Masqui-ninja - 9/21/2022 7:30 AM
Angling Oracle - 9/19/2022 3:22 PM
I'm not sure what to make of it. What is the fishing effort related to catch? I think would need multivariate analysis to tease out the effects of weather: barometric pressure, water temp, cloud cover, temp rise/fall, wind and wind direction and so on to be able to hint at some moon effect.
In my science based view, the only significance moon phase could have is potential correlations with mayfly or chironomid hatches, zooplankton, mysis shrimp or freshwater mussel spawinng activity, or potentially spawning activity of emerald or spottail shiners - all of which would "turn on" the water column. Some of these are annual occurrences that may or may not be associated with the moon in some way, but more likely a combination of temperature and daylight cues.
The success of folks that believe in moon phase is a combination of increased confidence, fishing prime locations, and fishing for a bite, which is always a recipe for success and really is what makes one an effective musky angler to begin with.
This describes my initial impression of the graphic.
The graph seems very flat to me, subtle differences could easily be attributed to angler effort. I put some stock in m.u.f., but feel I can predict windows more consistently by paying attention to sky conditions.
Interesting comment about the sky. Steve Heiting was doing part of a musky seminar in Rhinelander right before the pandemic and he brought up the sky. He showed some pics of an unusual cloud pattern. I don't remember the name of it but he said he really had not noticed while fishing but while going over pics of good fish from a number of trips and locations, he noticed that cloud pattern a number of times, much more than chance would account for. There were several cloud patterns he mentioned but that odd one really struck me as being different.
He too said, the best time to fish is when you can but, if you get that cloud pattern, don't leave the water. |
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Posts: 1415
Location: Brighton CO. | I believe he talks of white sky? Perhaps Seagull colored Top Raider. (I could be wrong) |
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Posts: 625
Location: S.W. WI | I have 20 years of fishing pretty much same days every week, all year long. I fish a lot. I kept pretty detailed records for first 15 years, and still log catches. I can confidently say this whole moon thing has shown to be little to no bearing FOR ME- where I fish- in N. Wi. and Canada. Maybe it matters in MN, it may well- I don't pretend like so many do to know. But for me, its a non factor. There has been a few times it seemed to maybe matter, but certainly not enough times to put much stock in it. So many more things that do show to matter. I still hope for it to work, and always try the moon times going back for fish, but it just doesn't work for me. I like when someone who fishes waaayyyyy less than me tells me how wrong I am because they got a big one once.
I wish it would work better for me, would sure make my life easier. But I go with my experiences and MY actual data. |
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Location: Ontario | Rudedog - 9/28/2022 6:59 AM
I have 20 years of fishing pretty much same days every week, all year long. I fish a lot. I kept pretty detailed records for first 15 years, and still log catches. I can confidently say this whole moon thing has shown to be little to no bearing FOR ME- where I fish- in N. Wi. and Canada. Maybe it matters in MN, it may well- I don't pretend like so many do to know. But for me, its a non factor. There has been a few times it seemed to maybe matter, but certainly not enough times to put much stock in it. So many more things that do show to matter. I still hope for it to work, and always try the moon times going back for fish, but it just doesn't work for me. I like when someone who fishes waaayyyyy less than me tells me how wrong I am because they got a big one once.
I wish it would work better for me, would sure make my life easier. But I go with my experiences and MY actual data.
Couldn't agree more, I gave it my best for years but it just did not make any difference in the fishing.
On the other hand I was always so pumped to go! |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | I kept detailed logs for 20+ years. Never was able to mathematically correlate success with moon phase or even get a gut feel about it. I no longer keep logs but will confess that with today's easy access to moon phase info (simple APP on your phone), now that I can fish on a more regular basis I may let majors/minors influence when I launch the boat on any given day. Still no correlation, in my opinion, but it certainly can't hurt. If it helps you fish more confidently, its gotta help. |
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| I did find my notes on the cloud pattern Heiting mentioned, it was a "mackerel sky". The online source said it is one of the surest indications of a weather change, normally happening about 6 hours ahead of a front. |
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Posts: 2330
Location: Chisholm, MN | I don't keep records so I can't say this with 100% confidence, but I believe I have most of my action when the moon is down and/or a major/minor is happening. It doesn't matter which spot I'm going to or if I'm going back on fish. This is when I get follows and bites consistently. And action typically slows dramatically after moonrise. I am surprised that the data some of you collect doesn't somewhat correlate with the majors and minors. |
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Posts: 166
Location: Alexandria, MN | Just went and looked through a whole bunch of my muskie pics, paying attention to the sky/weather. The pattern seems to be... random. That's the pattern. While I have noticed an occasional window around majors and minors as far as the moon goes, it doesn't seem to repeat itself very often. Weather trumps moon, and even that isn't that consistent. |
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Posts: 121
Location: Twin Cities Metro | Kirby Budrow - 9/27/2022 11:41 AM
What's your sample size?
At this point in the mid-50 fish range (I don't have the data in front of me at the moment). This would suggest the size of the random variance in the catch-per-unit-effort in the 12% range. In other words, if the effect of the moon on musky activity was small, then the signal (extra catches because of moon events compared to "normal" activity levels) would be below the level of the random noise.
My sample size is too small, really; I need more data for sure. That's why I said that it _currently_ shows no correlation. That could change as I get more data. I'll probably run a p-test for significance over the winter. I don't even know how this year's catches have contributed to the data because I specifically DON'T do data analysis during the season. I like to give myself something fun to do that's muskie-related during the winter months.
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moon stuff