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Posts: 793
Location: North Central IL USA | Which class of lures (be specific if you like) are muskies most likely to swallow deep and which are they least likely too? |
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Posts: 494
Location: midwest | Soft plastics on slack line pauses and slow rolled bucktails seem to be the most likely. |
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Posts: 213
| We have had an issue with Super Shad Raps on GB. Fish come up from behind and inhale the relatively small crank bait. I also agree with Wegner; I believe the great lakes strain are more fragile than the other strains. |
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Posts: 1537
Location: Brighton CO. | Old org. sized Bulldawg or if your fishing down sized tackle for Walleye's or Smallmouth or as I like to do is go to river and fish for Pike on light tackle. |
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Posts: 67
| Have had big plastics really engulfed on pauses. Slurp em up. |
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| I have #5 Mepps that I used to throw early in the season but after 2 fish took it so deep that the only thing showing was part of the leader, I retired it. I was very lucky in that both of the fish, neither of which was big, were released in good shape. |
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Posts: 3156
| If you fish any type of neutrality buoyant bait and let it hang,,you will get a large share of deep hooked fish,,I used to suspend strip grandmas and jakes until they were neutral with a jerk long pause retrieve,, but I gave it up because of all the deep hooked fish.
If you have a neutral bait just sitting there the muskie can zero in on it,open wide and just inhale it.
Edited by happy hooker 8/19/2022 3:51 PM
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Posts: 1266
Location: Walker, MN | When they start eating Mag Dawgs and Medussas a little too well, time to go to pounders and huskies. |
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Posts: 57
| Two of the 4 I caught yesterday had the buzz bait choked. Luckily both were easily unhooked without any real damage. I’ve had many top ware baits fully in their mouth over they years. Had one eat a Top Raider once on LOTW that I could only see about 2 inches of the bait sticking out of its throat, took a long time to get that bait out of the fish and a shredded forearm, swam off ok, but high chance it didn’t make it.
Edited by OH Muskyman 8/21/2022 10:43 AM
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Posts: 267
| I killed a fish that inhaled a slow rolled M & G spinnerbait after dark this year. Bummer. First fish I killed in a long, long time. |
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Posts: 98
Location: Tulsa, OK | The most engulfed bait I have used is the Grandma. The middle and end hooks are always deep in the fish, makes it a nightmare to get out. |
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Posts: 2370
Location: Chisholm, MN | Tubes are the worst for me |
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Posts: 1537
Location: Brighton CO. | M&G's and Rad Dawg's hook great ruined many of spinners have had to be cut out of fish! Don't be fooled by single hooks. |
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Posts: 543
Location: NW WI | Kirby Budrow - 8/22/2022 4:20 PM
Tubes are the worst for me
October's or Canyons? |
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Posts: 2370
Location: Chisholm, MN | 7.62xJay - 8/22/2022 6:01 PM
Kirby Budrow - 8/22/2022 4:20 PM
Tubes are the worst for me
October's or Canyons?
Red October |
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Posts: 20248
Location: oswego, il | It really depends on how they are attacking the bait. Rubber will get head shot a lot and in very cold water Muskies will often eat from the tail end and not from the side especially trolling. Sometimes fish nip other times they will commit like a two year old opening a present. |
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Posts: 5
| Twice in my life I have caught fish with lures in their mouth other than mine... bit off or cut by angler... both times bait practically fell out when I took my lure out. So, I guess real question is do you just let them have the deep hook bait. Musky "spit" seems to rust hooks really well. |
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| I have found a dead muskie that washed up on shore with a cowgirl in its mouth with leader and a broken line. I have also caught a muskie on a sucker that had a cowgirl in its mouth with leader and a broken line. That fish was dieing a slow death as it was super skinny and obviously having problems eating or catching its prey. I removed the cowgirl and it swam off good and was hopefully able to eat like normal again. |
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Posts: 28
| sure beats poorly hooked/lost fish |
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Posts: 2370
Location: Chisholm, MN | Baby Mallard - 8/23/2022 8:02 PM
I have found a dead muskie that washed up on shore with a cowgirl in its mouth with leader and a broken line. I have also caught a muskie on a sucker that had a cowgirl in its mouth with leader and a broken line. That fish was dieing a slow death as it was super skinny and obviously having problems eating or catching its prey. I removed the cowgirl and it swam off good and was hopefully able to eat like normal again.
This right here makes my day!
Here's the thing. When using baits like RO tubes or any rubber and even large crankbaits we should think about removing the barbs. I have not done this yet but I've been considering it. I've done some serious surgery on several fish this year and they lost a lot of blood. The may be fine, or they may be dead. I don't know. They all swam off. But the surgery would have been a lot easier without barbs and none of those fish would have gotten away, with or without barbs. I think I will do it. Also, when doing surgery, I will often not take a picture of the fish and definitely won't measure it. They are stressed out enough.
This was in no way directed at Baby Mallard. I just liked your post so I'm commenting here. |
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Posts: 631
Location: S.W. WI | Lures on the small end have been the only few issues I have had with engulfing of the bait. (a spinnerbait fish and a 700 Buchertail, and a baby Depth Raider come to mind. (Dead on release)
Fishing with a guide once who didn't want us throwing Mag Dawgs because they kill muskies. But it was ok for him to throw a 5" little Suzy sucker all day. Ridiculous. Somehow they only engulf large plastics.
Edited by Rudedog 8/24/2022 9:42 AM
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Posts: 674
Location: Duluth | I agree with Kirby on this. Had a bad experience recently and barbs certainly didn't help me land the fish but made life way worse once it was in the bag. |
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Posts: 1149
Location: Minnesota. | Kirby Budrow - 8/24/2022 9:20 AM
Baby Mallard - 8/23/2022 8:02 PM
I have found a dead muskie that washed up on shore with a cowgirl in its mouth with leader and a broken line. I have also caught a muskie on a sucker that had a cowgirl in its mouth with leader and a broken line. That fish was dieing a slow death as it was super skinny and obviously having problems eating or catching its prey. I removed the cowgirl and it swam off good and was hopefully able to eat like normal again.
This right here makes my day!
Here's the thing. When using baits like RO tubes or any rubber and even large crankbaits we should think about removing the barbs. I have not done this yet but I've been considering it. I've done some serious surgery on several fish this year and they lost a lot of blood. The may be fine, or they may be dead. I don't know. They all swam off. But the surgery would have been a lot easier without barbs and none of those fish would have gotten away, with or without barbs. I think I will do it. Also, when doing surgery, I will often not take a picture of the fish and definitely won't measure it. They are stressed out enough.
This was in no way directed at Baby Mallard. I just liked your post so I'm commenting here.
Interesting to read, I come from some fly fishing interests (trouty stuffs) and that barbless issue is big there. I got into it as it didn't seem to make me lose any more fish! So, I've in turn taken this to my muskie baits. Been fishing barbless trebles ever since I began in earnest back around 1990 and can't say I've had a fish shake off b/c of that...
My larger spinnerbaits (2 single hooks) remain barbed.
I do NOT wanna start any fiery issues here but I will say this. I fish alone a lot and worry about deeply hooked fish and my efforts to release. I tend to be a "worrier"...On FB last year I saw a vid. where a fellow used those "Gripper tools" to grasp the lower jaw of a netted fish and bring her up onto the transom of his boat that allowed for him to reach deep into the fishes mouth for deep hooks. He fished alone too and was VERY successful in quickly removing his dbl bucktals that were deep. I saw that a few time on different fish and ended up talking to to the guy which lead me to buying the tool....
Haven't used it yet but it seemed to work really well and barely hurt the fish as it was placed just inside the front of the lower jaw...
Sorry for the ramble but it seemed like a superb choice for a solo guy and deeply hooked fish.
Thnaks for getting thru this long post. I really hate type....
Jeremy.
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Posts: 1537
Location: Brighton CO. | I've lived out west my whole life and Trout are the most frail fish ever! Pike are tough as nails stock them and you'll never get rid of them. |
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Posts: 28
| curious as to conclusions on the impact of barbs on landing %
there's no reasonable way to gauge whether barbless contributed to a lost fish |
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Posts: 793
Location: North Central IL USA | Baby Mallard - 8/23/2022 8:02 PM
I have found a dead muskie that washed up on shore with a cowgirl in its mouth with leader and a broken line. I have also caught a muskie on a sucker that had a cowgirl in its mouth with leader and a broken line. That fish was dieing a slow death as it was super skinny and obviously having problems eating or catching its prey. I removed the cowgirl and it swam off good and was hopefully able to eat like normal again.
WTG! Just curious -fluoro or wire leaders? |
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Posts: 793
Location: North Central IL USA |
My larger spinnerbaits (2 single hooks) remain barbed.
I have some of these. Thinking of going barbless with at least the trailer hooks... |
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Posts: 1373
| scp - 8/24/2022 4:59 PM
curious as to conclusions on the impact of barbs on landing %
there's no reasonable way to gauge whether barbless contributed to a lost fish
I've been thing going barbless (simply pinching the barb down), for a while now. My reasons being that many years ago, I was on a pike trip to far northern Manitoba, where barbless is a requirement, and did fantastic. Almost never lost a fish, and releases were a piece of cake. Also, I would rather have a fish get off, than have issues trying to release a badly hooked fish. It's not that important to get another fish in the net. Of course, that's the goal, but it's not important. After all, we're just fishing for fun. If we need food, we fish for other stuff.
Edited by TCESOX 8/24/2022 9:50 PM
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| gregk9 - 8/24/2022 9:29 PM Baby Mallard - 8/23/2022 8:02 PM I have found a dead muskie that washed up on shore with a cowgirl in its mouth with leader and a broken line. I have also caught a muskie on a sucker that had a cowgirl in its mouth with leader and a broken line. That fish was dieing a slow death as it was super skinny and obviously having problems eating or catching its prey. I removed the cowgirl and it swam off good and was hopefully able to eat like normal again. WTG! Just curious -fluoro or wire leaders? Both were actually broken lines and leaders were still intact. Line broke a couple feet above leader. I often pinch the barbs on bucktails myself...makes it a lot easier to unhook fish. I haven't noticed any more lost fish because of pinched barbs. |
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Posts: 267
| I'm not sure how this applies to muskies, but I remember reading some research years ago on using barbless hooks on other fish (can't recall the species but maybe trout) and, while the fish was easier and quicker to release, oftentimes the fish had multiple hook impalements as the hook would come out and rehook the fish multiple times. I think the conclusion was that barbless didn't reduce fish mortality. Maybe it is different with muskie sized hooks, I don't know. Would be an interesting study. |
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Posts: 1537
Location: Brighton CO. | I pinch down my barbs on my Trout lures and in some cases make them singles to boot. (Mepp's 1& 2's) As far as Muskie lure go I've thought about lot's of times, but I recall a study from lots of years ago and the gist of the report was barbless hook's penetrate deeper and kill more fish. (at least that's what the study said) I've never fished in Manitoba I believe it's single hook barbless. There's a saying on lures "nobody mises a third eye" As we know most our lures have three hooks and in the case of a 10" Jake that's good. 8" Hellhound 2 hooks, 5" Cobb's Crazy Shad 2 hooks, Alma Bama 2 hook's and Ernie two hook's. I've caught all my large fish on Depth Raiders but if Joe put 2 hooks instead of three I'd be happy (like Dick Gries's Jointed Phantom Diver) And I know the new one's that Russ Smith makes have three. Except for big 10" or larger baits three hook's are good on smaller lures two is better. (one less hook to wind up in a fishes eye) |
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Posts: 793
Location: North Central IL USA | Smell_Esox - 8/25/2022 3:35 PM
I think the conclusion was that barbless didn't reduce fish mortality. Maybe it is different with muskie sized hooks, I don't know. Would be an interesting study.
That's weird. The barbless hooks means easier to take out, means less time working on the fish therefore it gets back into the water faster. I don't see how that cannot be better for the fish unless multiple impalements trumps time being handled? |
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Posts: 197
| Smell_Esox - 8/25/2022 4:35 PM
I'm not sure how this applies to muskies, but I remember reading some research years ago on using barbless hooks on other fish (can't recall the species but maybe trout) and, while the fish was easier and quicker to release, oftentimes the fish had multiple hook impalements as the hook would come out and rehook the fish multiple times. I think the conclusion was that barbless didn't reduce fish mortality. Maybe it is different with muskie sized hooks, I don't know. Would be an interesting study.
How is the hook going anywhere if you've got pressure on it? Physics would like a word with the guy that made that statement lol. I fish a lot of really big pike on a lake that's single hook barbless. Less time in the net, less damage from hook removal, similar sized hooks (actually bigger in a lot of cases) to what most muskie guys toss. |
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Posts: 213
| Super Shad Raps on Green Bay. I also agree with Wegner I believe GB fish are more 'fragile' than the other strains. |
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Posts: 267
| BillM - 8/26/2022 3:17 PM
Smell_Esox - 8/25/2022 4:35 PM
I'm not sure how this applies to muskies, but I remember reading some research years ago on using barbless hooks on other fish (can't recall the species but maybe trout) and, while the fish was easier and quicker to release, oftentimes the fish had multiple hook impalements as the hook would come out and rehook the fish multiple times. I think the conclusion was that barbless didn't reduce fish mortality. Maybe it is different with muskie sized hooks, I don't know. Would be an interesting study.
How is the hook going anywhere if you've got pressure on it? Physics would like a word with the guy that made that statement lol. I fish a lot of really big pike on a lake that's single hook barbless. Less time in the net, less damage from hook removal, similar sized hooks (actually bigger in a lot of cases ) to what most muskie guys toss. |
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Posts: 401
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | Manitoba has been 100 % barbless for a long time. You don't lose many fish. True barbless hooks penetrate far better and as explained with constant pressure unlikely to lose fish. Exception is ice fishing and using lures that may hit the ice on the way up such as jigging rap type lures and the odd time lipless cranks (when walleye fishing). Far easier to release fish such as pike and they rarely get off and likely no moreso than with barbs.
That said, pike do fight much differently than musky, they tend to sound and attempt to reach cover and actually tend to grip a lure tightly, so less likely to shake a hook, whereas muskies thrash, headshake and jump which will throw more lures in both barbless and barbed categories.
However, if you are concerned about solo handling and deep hooksets, then barbless and/or fewer and smaller trebles the way to go for your safety and for fish. Barbless are easy to remove, far less handling and hook cutting less likely required given that backing the hook out not going to cause more damage and quick and easy to do.
Edited by Angling Oracle 8/29/2022 9:37 PM
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Posts: 51
| I’ve had a few deep hooked with tubes, they usually hit the head or t bone them and it’s not an issue. But I’ve had two inhale them from behind, the whole 10” tube gone and the back hook went in deep. One I was able to cut the hooks safely by going under the gill plate. I tried the same thing on a small fish and it thrashed and it’s gills were bleeding really bad, pretty sure that one didn’t make it. |
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Posts: 793
Location: North Central IL USA | EllusiveGoose - 8/31/2022 10:11 PM
I’ve had a few deep hooked with tubes, they usually hit the head or t bone them and it’s not an issue. But I’ve had two inhale them from behind, the whole 10” tube gone and the back hook went in deep.
The back hook being a treble? |
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Fish engulfing Baits