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Posts: 63
Location: Indiana | First time on Big V. Didn't really know what to expect out there. We had two boats and 5 guys and stayed on a houseboat mid-lake. Water temps on day 1 were warm at 77-81 in some places. Luckily cold front knocked them back pretty good. The entire week we did not see a consistent wind of any more than 2-3 mph and most of the week Big Bay was like glass. VERY tough conditions. We ended with 8 fish in the boat 35.5, 35.5, 37.5, 38, 43.75, 45.5, 47.75, 49.75.
We started the week fishing all of the obvious spots-shallow rocks, islands, etc (on east end). We saw plenty of fish during the windows (which were not moon related for the most part) and caught all of the 4 smallest from those spots. Blades moved 90% of those fish with a few chasing weagle. I wasn't content with what was going on and started to look for deeper fish. Unsuccessfully tried open water stuff casting around and through bait.
Ended up finding fish related to deep underwater points and reefs topping out at 8-20ft. Lost an absolute Big V giant 15ft from the boat and boated the other 4 bigger fish on this pattern. Saw way less follows but all the fish ate rubber away from the boat.
We fished every time of the day even waking at 2:30am to fish. The morning bite was by far the best. Of course the giant ate at high noon with zero wind and 80 degree air temps.
I would definitely go back. Don't get intimidated by the pressure out there. You have to be willing to leave some of the common spots and forget about "seeing fish." Our best two spots maybe saw pressure from one other boat that we saw. I never saw a boat touch the spot we got the 49.75 and lost the super giant at. Pull back to the second or third break and go from there. Happy to share some more info, PM me. |
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| Congrats I would say you did quite well |
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| Sounds like a good outing. Nice job adapting. Thanks for sharing. |
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| You did well! Congrats and thank you for the report! |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | 1.6 fish per person per week. You thought outside the box and actually caught some. You did better than 95% of the rest. |
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Posts: 1785
| Kirby Budrow - 7/16/2021 12:21 PM
1.6 fish per person per week. You thought outside the box and actually caught some. You did better than 95% of the rest.
Forgive me, but being new I notice you seem to trash Vermilion quite a bit. Is that because you are trying to steer people away or is that how you truly feel about the lake?
What are your home waters? |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Brian Hoffies - 7/16/2021 7:48 PM
Kirby Budrow - 7/16/2021 12:21 PM
1.6 fish per person per week. You thought outside the box and actually caught some. You did better than 95% of the rest.
Forgive me, but being new I notice you seem to trash Vermilion quite a bit. Is that because you are trying to steer people away or is that how you truly feel about the lake?
What are your home waters?
I’m not trashing vermilion. I love the lake. I live near vermilion so thats my home water. What really bothers me is the exploitation of the lake and the lack of management being done there. People use the lake and the fish for money and nothing gets put back. |
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| Exploitation? I thought you were a guide? |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | No, I do not guide. I did several years ago. |
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| Kirby Budrow - 7/16/2021 9:54 PM
No, I do not guide. I did several years ago.
You clearly feel strongly about the lake and what is going on there. Could you explain what you see as exploitation? |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | North of 8 - 7/17/2021 8:38 AM
Kirby Budrow - 7/16/2021 9:54 PM
No, I do not guide. I did several years ago.
You clearly feel strongly about the lake and what is going on there. Could you explain what you see as exploitation?
Yes, I see a lot of guides promoting it as a Mecca and resorts as well but the lake is suffering greatly. There are more than enough dead fish floating this year and not enough being put back from stocking. The science says so. The fishing used to be great and yes there are some very big fish still there. Not including the dead 55 incher I found this season and also a reported 56.5 found floating. As if the pressure wasn’t bad enough, now there is the livescope factor. People are sitting on fish suspended down 20-30 feet all night trying to jig them up. These fish were once protected from people in June. Now they are also being harassed steadily. So basically what’s left over are a few “used” fish. They cannot hide now. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | And one more thing is that people are typically secretive about their small lake they fish all the time but when they go to their week on vermilion for the year they happily post the 49 incher and clearly state that it was from vermilion like it doesn’t matter after they leave. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Also, nothing against the original post here. He legit thought outside the box and caught more fish than most. How many times have you seen the report, “fished for 7 days straight and saw 3 fish and caught zero”. He did well. |
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| Kirby Budrow - 7/17/2021 10:12 AM
North of 8 - 7/17/2021 8:38 AM
Kirby Budrow - 7/16/2021 9:54 PM
No, I do not guide. I did several years ago.
You clearly feel strongly about the lake and what is going on there. Could you explain what you see as exploitation?
Yes, I see a lot of guides promoting it as a Mecca and resorts as well but the lake is suffering greatly. There are more than enough dead fish floating this year and not enough being put back from stocking. The science says so. The fishing used to be great and yes there are some very big fish still there. Not including the dead 55 incher I found this season and also a reported 56.5 found floating. As if the pressure wasn’t bad enough, now there is the livescope factor. People are sitting on fish suspended down 20-30 feet all night trying to jig them up. These fish were once protected from people in June. Now they are also being harassed steadily. So basically what’s left over are a few “used” fish. They cannot hide now.
Thanks for the reply |
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Posts: 358
| A. Congrats on making some memories and fishing them up. Its always fun to find a way to catch some in tough conditions. This is a trip you will never forget that is awesome
B. Its not just vermilion seeing this, this is mn trophy musky strategy. bites are tough on trophy water.
C. I have not seen the new MN musky plan, but it should be out soon if not already as the old one has expired. Will be interesting to see how the state responds |
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Posts: 63
Location: Indiana | Interesting thread now....who's calling the shots regarding musky management in a given state? I continually see DNR requesting input from anglers. I would venture a guess that the majority of the feedback is either "stop stocking them theyre eating all the other fish" or "we need 100 per acre to provide a good fishery or make it what it once was." I would imagine there is little or no actual lobbying being done to promote change. Record numbers of people are fishing and buying fishing licenses. Record numbers fishing for musky by all accounts. This has to somehow translate into better and more proactive management everywhere muskies live. Seems to me like a musky tag or sticker along side the license purchase is a no brainer to start.... |
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Location: midwest | I think you are on the right track of thinking. What if states were petitioned to have an additional muskie stamp for licenses that had to be put toward Muskie stocking efforts? Even if it was strictly a voluntary tag with no enforcement tied to it, I feel a lot of muskie anglers would pay their tag. Just think about Kirby's post above talking about the guides (not a shot at you Kirby by any means I respect you and you have the right to your opinion) not putting anything back into the resource. All of their clients could be "required" by the guiding party to show proof of a voluntary muskie tag for the guide trip. that would go a ways at putting money into the fishery. From what I hear it's not just a monetary deal keeping the numbers low on those Minnesota waters. I saw Vermilion at the end of it's glory days and it still showed me the largest fish I've seen to date. too bad it's a shell of it's former self as it's an incredibly cool shield fishery. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Yeah, I think the muskie stamp has been discussed but also maybe encourages killing of a muskie if you have the stamp. I’m not sure what the solution is but there has been a lot of input by fisherman on stocking in Minnesota. The capacity to grow more fingerlings is a problem. But the way I see it is there is no option. Make more capacity. Honestly the whole state is getting this way, as stated above. But vermilion is the one that sees the most pressure and is publicized the most. They did increase stocking recently but not enough in most of our opinions. The pressure should scare all of us. The solution is not finding new spots or different ways to catch them. Yeah you might catch a couple that way but the problem is there are just wayyyy less fish available to catch than what is required to have a sustainable and worthwhile fishery. People keep coming back because they saw the biggest fish of their life, but 8 years ago they actually would have caught the biggest fish of their life. Not just had a glimpse. And I don’t mind working hard to catch a fish but I think vermilion is beyond hard and it’s because of the low population due to lack of stocking and delayed mortality caused by over fishing. |
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Posts: 63
Location: Indiana | I was thinking about it in terms of the whole musky range. The whole approach to management is due for an overhaul. I don't think conservation is the place to concentrate most of the effort right now. Sure there are anglers new to the game that need to be educated on the various conservation topics (you handling, release, etc) but the majority of experienced anglers lose engagement as they make their way out on the learning curve.
Year 1-2- new angler doesnt know much lots of learning, gets hooked
Years 3-5- learning curve and max engagement with the sport and resources. subscribing to magazines, joining muskies inc, etc etc.
Year 5 or so and beyond- outside of refining techniques and spending life changing amounts of money on tackle, anglers probably disengage quite a bit from the mainstream outlets. If theyve made it this far theyre probably hooked but there is little way to support the fishery outside of mailing a check to muskies inc every year.
Just spitballing here and I don't know the answers but I think whats happened on Big V has happened most places. |
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Posts: 63
Location: Indiana | "delayed mortality caused by overfishing"
Are you saying a fish that has been caught a few times is more likely to suffer from delayed mortality? Or just theyre stressed right away from being buzzed by double 10s for 4 straight months then they get caught and end up dead? |
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| Money is not an issue. Notice the MN DNR has never said they don't have or couldn't get, the money needed to increase stocking. Muskie stamp could be a real double edge sword - may actually even backfire. Overall Muskie plan will be the big driver, as well as the individual regional fisheries managers. A particular change in legislative representation, will also play a pivotal role. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | gruney - 7/19/2021 1:59 PM
"delayed mortality caused by overfishing"
Are you saying a fish that has been caught a few times is more likely to suffer from delayed mortality? Or just theyre stressed right away from being buzzed by double 10s for 4 straight months then they get caught and end up dead?
Just being caught several times and dying eventually from one of them. I believe most of the fish in lake are caught many times throughout their lives. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | TCESOX - 7/19/2021 5:11 PM
Money is not an issue. Notice the MN DNR has never said they don't have or couldn't get, the money needed to increase stocking. Muskie stamp could be a real double edge sword - may actually even backfire. Overall Muskie plan will be the big driver, as well as the individual regional fisheries managers. A particular change in legislative representation, will also play a pivotal role.
You’re right. They could get the money if they tried. It’s more for lack of trying or desire. And the individual managers are definitely the ones to convince that we need more fish. |
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Posts: 358
| Kirby Budrow - 7/19/2021 6:32 PM
TCESOX - 7/19/2021 5:11 PM
Money is not an issue. Notice the MN DNR has never said they don't have or couldn't get, the money needed to increase stocking. Muskie stamp could be a real double edge sword - may actually even backfire. Overall Muskie plan will be the big driver, as well as the individual regional fisheries managers. A particular change in legislative representation, will also play a pivotal role.
You’re right. They could get the money if they tried. It’s more for lack of trying or desire. And the individual managers are definitely the ones to convince that we need more fish.
Here is the plan through 2020 who had not seen it
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/fish_wildlife/fisheries/plans/muskiepi...
The plan goal was to provide opportunities for trophy fish. I think they did a pretty good job at that. But the by product was we all got to experience a lot of new lake syndrome. I dont think we will ever see anything close to that again.
Im not smart enough to know what should be done. But if you look at say the catch rate of the Frank Schneider tournament that is more in lines of what we should expect, and thats getting back to the fish of 10K casts. |
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Posts: 1785
| I'm sure most will disagree with this but, part of the problem is people want to keep the lakes to themselves. They find a gem with a decent population and in order to protect it they don't say anything about it. I understand thats almost impossible to do but just think of the lakes written & discussed each year. It's always Vermilion, LOTW, Mille Lacs, Leech. The same old lakes year after year. So where do you think the new young anglers are going? They want to see fish and catch their first Muskie. They will head to the "factories" they hear and read about. If you want to protect the factories IMO you have to spread out the pressure. I know the idea won't be popular but think about it from the health of the fishery standpoint and not from what's best for me standpoint.
In addition "required" and "voluntary" can't be in the same sentence in regards to a voluntary Muskie stamp being required by guides. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Brian Hoffies - 7/20/2021 7:45 AM
I'm sure most will disagree with this but, part of the problem is people want to keep the lakes to themselves. They find a gem with a decent population and in order to protect it they don't say anything about it. I understand thats almost impossible to do but just think of the lakes written & discussed each year. It's always Vermilion, LOTW, Mille Lacs, Leech. The same old lakes year after year. So where do you think the new young anglers are going? They want to see fish and catch their first Muskie. They will head to the "factories" they hear and read about. If you want to protect the factories IMO you have to spread out the pressure. I know the idea won't be popular but think about it from the health of the fishery standpoint and not from what's best for me standpoint.
In addition "required" and "voluntary" can't be in the same sentence in regards to a voluntary Muskie stamp being required by guides.
I don't think you're idea is wrong, but I know that every single managed muskie lake in minnesota has extreme pressure. There are a couple secrets out there but really people are smart enough to find out where muskies live and go catch them. All the lakes that I fish, big or small have too many people fishing them. The real draw to vermilion and the other big lakes is that people want to catch a 55 incher. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The border opens on August 9th, so the pressure will decline a lot. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | sworrall - 7/20/2021 11:45 AM
The border opens on August 9th, so the pressure will decline a lot.
Hoping that's the case! |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | sworrall - 7/20/2021 11:45 AM
The border opens on August 9th, so the pressure will decline a lot.
Yay !
please, everyone go fish Canada. They need the money, Vermilion doesn't.  |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Top H2O - 7/20/2021 6:40 PM
sworrall - 7/20/2021 11:45 AM
The border opens on August 9th, so the pressure will decline a lot.
Yay !
please, everyone go fish Canada. They need the money, Vermilion doesn't. ; )
Gladly!  |
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Posts: 16
| Yea I would echo most of what is discussed here. V is my favorite place on earth. I will be going there for the rest of my life. From a Muskie fishing perspective its just not in the 2005-2012 type window anymore as far as population. Its still a great lake to fish and some really cool things still happen, but you just have to manage (lower) your expectations a bit is all. |
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Location: Minnesota. | Kirby Budrow - 7/17/2021 10:52 AM
Also, nothing against the original post here. He legit thought outside the box and caught more fish than most. How many times have you seen the report, “fished for 7 days straight and saw 3 fish and caught zero”. He did well.
Well written Kirby!
You gave the OP kudos (which I VERY much agreed with) and don't need to re-re-re justify your opinion of what goes on with Vermilion's rep. I only see the lake once a season - usually for 3-4 wks but man has it changed from 20-25 yrs. ago!!
Thank you for your input. I value the perspective!
Just spent 3 wks up there, got back a couple days ago and did nowhere near as well as the O.P. (wow!!) but I'm also fairly lazy and did more walleye fishing! |
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Posts: 354
Location: Vilas County, WI | I was up there last week for a family trip. It was multi species but I/we did try some musky fishing through the week. I caught one 45" fish early in the trip; then lost a 40" fish at the boat later in the week. A few follows mixed in. I was very happy with these results considering I wasn't there to exclusively musky fish. Multi species went well as we got into everything but smallies.
We saw a couple muskies caught and this goes along with the posts about mortality and the frequent handling of the fish on Vermilion. Don't shoot the messenger... but one of the fish we saw caught was a better fish, and when the guys bumped it we could hear the "hell yeah's, holy *^&%, nice fish and F Bombs". Then they took the picture, but dropped the fish. Wham! On the bottom of the boat, flopping around etc. Things happen when handling these fish and we all do our part to handle them with care, have the appropriate release tool, etc. But on the flip side, things like this happen too. The fish did swim away, we hung in the area for awhile. Hopefully no delayed issues there. These appeared to be experienced musky anglers in a nice rig.
As for pressure, my theory is this. A resort has 10 cabins - every summer those 10 cabins are booked. So there's no additional fishing pressure coming from the resorts. Full capacity this summer is the same full capacity 8 years ago. Sure, more guys may be staying at the casino or motels down the road and trailering each day. I don't know. In my opinion, I thought the pressure on Vermilion was "normal" by my standards but again I don't live there and fish it all summer long. Also, at our resort 3 boats were bass guys, 2 boats walleye guys, 2 or 3 fair weather multi species anglers. No one in camp was exclusively there to musky fish.
It was extremely dry there and the water levels were way down, maybe 15-18". We did not have any issues with hazards due to the low water but many other boats did. We used Lakemaster chips and common sense - no problem for us. Also, lots of wildfire haze/smoke lingering. Some days I could even smell it. My wife had some allergy issues all week but we assumed it was from the smoke. Really bad storms blew through last Friday night and I see they've had a few more since our departure.
Edited by TheShow 7/29/2021 10:38 AM
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Big V Report 7/5-7/12