Question on W.I. muskie stocking
Lockjaw
Posted 12/17/2003 6:35 AM (#91070)
Subject: Question on W.I. muskie stocking





Posts: 147


Location: WI - Land of small muskies and big jawbones

I belong to a club that raises musky fingerlings. The fry we get comes from the DNR. The muskies we raise then get planted in area waters chosen by the DNR. The cost of raising these fish has increased dramatically in the last few years and is paid for entirely by our club. These muskies we raise for the DNR provides NO EXTRA stocking for any of our local waters. It would make absolutely no difference if we raised them or the DNR raised them. So by doing this our waters get no more muskies stocked than if the DNR raised all the fish themselves. Only a couple of waters in our area ever even get the maximum number of muskies planted that is allowed by the DNR. We pay to raise these fish and get nothing extra in return as far as stocking. We were considering using the money we spend on raising these muskies to instead purchase muskies from the the MN muskie farm or possibly another supplier. We thought that if we bought muskies instead we could maybe come up with extra fish to plant above and beyond what the DNR would plant anyway with or without our help in raising their muskies. We also were considering buying larger muskies, 18 inches or so because the survival rate would be much greater. Pretty good idea we thought. We discussed this with our local DNR fisheries manager. He was DEAD against it. He said they need to be certified, need to be from WI and blah blah blah and so on. We informed him that the MN muskie farm has WI strain muskies and that they do pass all the legal rules and regs they must pass to be planted in WI. He then said unless we can prove that they originally came from the watershed in our area he would not allow us to plant them. He gave us the impression that this can not be done legally in WI and that the DNR would not allow it anywhere. I think he is wrong. I'm sure I have heard of muskies being planted in WI from the MN farm and/or other suppliers. I think the real reason he is against this idea is because it would mean our local DNR would no longer have someone else raising and paying for muskies that they would be raising and paying for themselves without our help. So here are a few questions. Are there any clubs or groups in WI that have done this? Where did the muskies come from? How do we find out if the muskies planted by our local DNR actually come from the watershed in our area like he said ours would have to come from? I have never heard of any waters in our area ever being used by the DNR to gather eggs for stocking purposes. Is our DNR manager wrong about whether it is legal or not? If he is wrong, why can he, one man, have so much power over this stocking issue in our area if it can be done elsewhere?

 

I'm nuts about musky fishing!

The Handyman
Posted 12/17/2003 7:33 AM (#91073 - in reply to #91070)
Subject: RE: Question on W.I. muskie stocking




Posts: 1046


I do know that WildRose hatchery does collect some eggs from a Wi. lake for use for Wi.fish(spots)but most of there fry do come from Michigan for the greenbay stocking!Our club also raises DNR bought muskies at our own expense,but I do beleive that you can get a permit to stock other strains of musky in Wi.Reef-Hawg could better answer those questions as he is very involved in that aspect of the club and on the board!We have been keeping our muskies for two seasons before release and they are at a great size for release and survivablity.To buy 2 year olds at say 15-20"`s is very,very expensive if you can even get them!Good luck its great what your club is doing and hope you guys can keep it up cause fisherman do,DO IT BEST!
Steve Van Lieshout
Posted 12/17/2003 7:53 AM (#91078 - in reply to #91070)
Subject: RE: Question on W.I. muskie stocking




Posts: 1916


Location: Greenfield, WI
The Milwaukee Chapter of Muskies Inc. has been, on a random basis over the years, buying muskies from the Minnesota outlet which you are talking about. For nearly 20 years our Chapter has been stocking Pewaukee Lake, Okauchee Lake, and indirectly by transfer through a dam Oconomowoc Lake.
The few years in which our own rearing operation was less than productive, or when we had money left over at the end of the year we had purchased muskies from The Minnesota Muskie Farm to supplement our own efforts.
Ron Groeschl of the Chapter would be the one to contact to get the specifics. He can be reached at [email protected].
Good Luck!
Jason Smith
Posted 12/17/2003 8:22 AM (#91079 - in reply to #91078)
Subject: RE: Question on W.I. muskie stocking




Posts: 4520


Location: Chippewa Falls Wisconsin
Somethings to consider.

If you raise them they will be about 12" to 14" long by October. If you have the DNR raise them, they wont feed as much and they will be 6" to 8" when they release them into the waters.

The smaller they are..the more they are subject to predation from cranes, loons, bass and pike ect. So infact growing larger muskies will help the numbers of muskies in the body of water in the future, unless your pond is a "POS" like we have at the 1st Wisconsin Chapter. We got something like 1800 fry and only got 117 muskies out of the pond. Thats not cost effective. We also want to buy them, but the local DNR manager does not let us. Right now we are looking for a new pond to better suit our needs.

Also something to consider on lakes that have some natural reproduction. Pelican is an example. The orginal Pelican strain was very good for growing large muskies, then they started stocking the lake to help the fishery and they messed up the gene pool.

The reason Pewaukee could get muskies from out of state is because it had no natural reproduction. But they still would not let us stock Leech lake spots into Pewaukee. That I always thought was crazy!.

Edited by Jason Smith 12/17/2003 8:24 AM

Posted 12/17/2003 11:20 AM (#91089 - in reply to #91070)
Subject: RE: Question on W.I. muskie stocking


This might be a stupid question.....but what would be so wrong with stocking MN strain muskies in WI waters? Especailly like J. Smith siad into waters that have hardly any or non-existant natural reproduction. By all means I'm no fishery biologist but jsut a thought.

mrm
Jomusky
Posted 12/17/2003 12:14 PM (#91093 - in reply to #91089)
Subject: RE: Question on W.I. muskie stocking




Posts: 1185


Location: Wishin I Was Fishin'
I am the president of C & R Musky Club, of Dale Wi and have some experience with this.

It is the local DNR fisheries biologist's decision on what strain of fish or any at all can go into a body of water. Some of them don't mind what strain, others apperantly do. We stocked Shawano lake in conjunction with the Figure 8 club of Shawano with Kalep's fish this year. Last year Minnesota Fish Farm gave Figure 8 a better price so they went with them. That particular DNR manager didn't have any issues with it. The MN fish are certified by the DNR for planting in Wisconsin. I can see where some bioligist's could have issues with strains. For example the spotted musky program, we are not allowed to put any fish other then the Great Lakes Strain into the Winnebago/Green Bay system. Unfortunetly the only place to get them from is the DNR's program as no one private has any yet. If clubs want to help with these waters we are only able to help pay for the costs of the feed for raising the fish.
Don Pfeiffer
Posted 12/18/2003 11:15 AM (#91154 - in reply to #91070)
Subject: RE: Question on W.I. muskie stocking




Posts: 929


Location: Rhinelander.
I believe our club has also bought from minnesota because of price. I will find out for sure. My question to the d.n.r was this>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Why not take eggs from only larger females that we know have the genetics to get big instead of milking smaller muskies that may not have the genes to get to be large.
I was told that the bigger fish are harder to handle. This just seems crazy to me. I would think that they would want to take the eggs from the bigger fish. Why use possably inferior fish for the eggs. Could this actually be one of the reasons we don't see as many big fish as we would like to. Wonder what your thoughts are on this.

Merry xmas all........Don Pfeiffer
tomcat
Posted 12/18/2003 1:05 PM (#91161 - in reply to #91070)
Subject: RE: Question on W.I. muskie stocking





Posts: 743


First off, someone give me any scientific data that supports different "strains" of muskies...and i'm not talking about Spotted/Barred/Clear...it's my belief, and i feel it holds true, that water color, clarity, depth, structure (weeds, rocks) is what determines if a fish is spotted or barred or clear...outside of skin color (like humans), i dont' believe there are different "strains" of muskies and almost everyone who tried to use the term correctly, gets is wrong. (ok, i know the parents of the fish probably determine weather it's spotted/barred or clear...but a populations that contines to reproduce in a body of water tend to be quite similar. so, i think there is one strain of musky, well catch it, but different markings. that is.

Don Pfeiffer, if WI really does use small fish for milkings, then that just adds to WI backwards fish management. that's just stupid. Yes, two smaller muskies can make a big one, it can happen...but a much better chance of making big ones if there are big parents. Wisconsin needs to get a grip on the musky population/management..It's a special place in North America, it should only get better (like MN, MI, IN, IL, KY, Canada), but instead, it looks like they will probably down hill or barely stay where they are at...simple, elementary things like this should be addressed to WI DNR guy/gals.

tomcat
sworrall
Posted 12/19/2003 6:41 AM (#91198 - in reply to #91161)
Subject: RE: Question on W.I. muskie stocking





Posts: 32958


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin

Scientific support for the strains is absolute. Barred, Great Lakes, and Hybrid are definite. There are some publications that support a 'silver' or 'clear muskie, also.

The DNR knows the genetic strain, available prey, water chemistry, and overall makeup of any lake they stock here in Wisconsin. A 45" female that is 11 years old will not necessarily produce offspring with better growth potential than a 38" female  that is a few years younger, especially if stripped from the same brood waters It is simply not workable to or necessarily good science to strip only huge fish. Age/size/growth/prey relationships are well documented for all stocked waters.

Adding another strain of muskies IS a bit of a wildcard, and alot depends on the water stocked. The questions are survivalability, prey consumption vs availablilty, growth rate, interaction with the other predator fish already there, and about a hundred other issues. If a lake is currently in the middle of a muskie management program with the DNR for a specific goal, it is likely the area Manager will want to be certain any additional stocking done by individuals is compatable.

Wisconsin has been fortunate our DNR has in the past and into the future been focused on the introduction and management of Muskies into waters that traditionally did not have a fishable population, and in many other aspects of Muskie Management. Many new and existing fisheries are under management for trophy potential right now. I suggest you go to the WI DNR site and begin a careful ananysis of the mass of information there, and call a few of the fisheries managers for comment. These folks are not just guessing willy nilly and stocking by whim or chance.

I see Wisconsin's Muskie management program's biggest potential problem being lack of funds. THAT is why most managers welcome assistance from club or individuals. Dont, however, expect them to simply and without a question abandon or seriously alter the current management guidelines for any one body of water to fit someone elses perceived wants or needs. Te response a club gets will vary as much as the needs of the water being potentially stocked.