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| With the closure now being extended to at least June 21, how does one cling onto their planned Canadian trip for July, or August? We are going to cancel our July LOTW trip simply because I can’t wait for things to change and risk having no place to go to. Anybody else have similar ideas? |
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Location: Kansas City MO | We are sticking to our late June LOTW trip. We stay on Oak and will likely be fishing slightly less productive waters on the MN side. While not ideal, it's certainly better than staying home and bass fishing in 95 degree heat! |
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Location: Kansas City MO | I suppose this is not a "Canada crossing". If not at all helpful, I apologize |
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| Seems to me we’re going to get answers pretty soon. We have, for the most part, reopened the country. Now, we will all see how that’s working out. Canada will see it too. If it is all good to go, Canada won’t turn away our dollars. If there is a meaningful spread of death, Canada will keep the lock on the gate. And, the Minnesota lakes will be really, really crowded. |
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Location: West Central Wisconsin | I'm holding onto hope for my Aug. 1st trip. |
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| Ivegotafever - 5/29/2020 6:20 AM
We are sticking to our late June LOTW trip. We stay on Oak and will likely be fishing slightly less productive waters on the MN side. While not ideal, it's certainly better than staying home and bass fishing in 95 degree heat!
You planning on boating the 22ish open water miles from MN? |
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Location: SE, WI. | Have a buddy that had a trip scheduled 6/21-6/27. He told me the border crossing restrictions we’re extended to 6/27. Hmmm, speculating it might be a weekly thing now. JD
Edited by jdsplasher 6/4/2020 10:28 AM
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| Jim did your friend say anything about a ‘quarantine period’ going in and/or returning? |
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Location: SE, WI. | dickP - 6/4/2020 11:44 AM Jim did your friend say anything about a ‘quarantine period’ going in and/or returning? Sorry Mr Pearson, No he did not mention, But, I will try to find out....Sounds like a Real Pain though;( JD |
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Location: SE, WI. | Dick; Buddy was going to Ash Rapids area...Ontario. Yes, there is a Quarantine if your going to a Canada location. If you don’t stop, and drive back into the states, supposedly not a Quarantine. JD |
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Where did he see this? I’m looking and can’t find an update beyond June 21. |
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Location: Cheyenne, WY most of the year | I doubt they would increase for a week, a few weeks out. Doesn't make sense. |
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Location: Kansas City MO | fifty1incher - 6/4/2020 9:59 AM
Ivegotafever - 5/29/2020 6:20 AM
We are sticking to our late June LOTW trip. We stay on Oak and will likely be fishing slightly less productive waters on the MN side. While not ideal, it's certainly better than staying home and bass fishing in 95 degree heat!
You planning on boating the 22ish open water miles from MN?
It's been done before. 1 hour on a flat day and a couple more if its choppy. |
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| Q https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/mobile/customs-officers-warn-recreational...
Just sent to me by a Canadian friend.
As to crossing,know your boat,know the weather. |
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Location: Ashland WI | Ivegotafever - 6/6/2020 6:27 AM
fifty1incher - 6/4/2020 9:59 AM
Ivegotafever - 5/29/2020 6:20 AM
We are sticking to our late June LOTW trip. We stay on Oak and will likely be fishing slightly less productive waters on the MN side. While not ideal, it's certainly better than staying home and bass fishing in 95 degree heat!
You planning on boating the 22ish open water miles from MN?
It's been done before. 1 hour on a flat day and a couple more if its choppy.
People boat from Bayfield to outer island all the time. Similar distance. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX7UxWCJlDI |
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Location: Honor, MI | Can't say I blame 'em one bit. In case you haven't noticed, we're not too popular anywhere. Wonder why. |
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Whew, some hefty fines there. But hey, during Prohibition enterprising Americans found ways to get Whiskey from Canada. Windsor, Sault Ste Marie, places like that have legends of the whiskey runners. Maybe a cottage industry will develop where American fishermen are smuggled into Canada, sort of the opposite of what happened with Whiskey during Prohibitions. I know that if it happens and someone writes a book about it, the first line will be "It was a dark and storm night as the fishermen hunkered down in the bottom of the Pro V, ready to make the run across the water to the promised land of the big musky, with a grizzled Canadian guide on the big tiller." |
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| https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-canada-exc... |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | link not working |
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| It's a report that restrictions will.be on until end of July. |
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-06-09/exclusive-cana... |
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| I heard a rumour from a US friend that knows lots of camp owners on both sides of the border - he was hearing July 7th....which is now seemingly unlikely if Reuters is reporting end of July minimum. Painful for anyone looking to cross either side of the border. |
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| Keeping in mind even when it does open, I'm pretty sure a 14 day qaurenteen plan will still be in place. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Harvard Dr. predicting 100,000 more American deaths by Sept. Almost 1000 people died yesterday, number of cases on the rise in 19 states hospitalizations up in 12. Americans appear to be throwing away the gains that were made by earlier sacrifices by relaxing restrictions prematurely. Keep it closed.
Edited by horsehunter 6/10/2020 5:58 PM
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| horsehunter - 6/10/2020 5:01 PM
Harvard Dr. predicting 100,000 more American deaths by Sept. Almost 1000 people died yesterday, number of cases on the rise in 19 states hospitalizations up in 12. Americans appear to be throwing away the gains that were made by earlier sacrifices by relaxing restrictions prematurely. Keep it closed.
Same folks predicting outlandish covid numbers and promoting keeping things shutdown are the same ones encouraging protesting and riots. I would be cautious with what is being reported and what is real. |
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Location: Bloomington, IL | muskysaloon - 6/11/2020 10:01 AM
horsehunter - 6/10/2020 5:01 PM
Harvard Dr. predicting 100,000 more American deaths by Sept. Almost 1000 people died yesterday, number of cases on the rise in 19 states hospitalizations up in 12. Americans appear to be throwing away the gains that were made by earlier sacrifices by relaxing restrictions prematurely. Keep it closed.
Same folks predicting outlandish covid numbers and promoting keeping things shutdown are the same ones encouraging protesting and riots. I would be cautious with what is being reported and what is real.
Completely agree. With how much the supposed "experts" have flip-flopped, it's hard to keep track of what the guidelines should or are supposed to be...you can throw a Dr. from Harvard into that bucket for sure. Remember the # of deaths the "experts" were originally predicting? Not to mention, the fact that the # of COVID-19 deaths are skewed due to the death count including people killed by a gunshot or in an auto accident, but counted because they tested positive for COVID-19.
And the media, well, they suck and all they want to do is fear monger. |
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| With no political bias...
Edited by MartinTD 6/11/2020 12:59 PM
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| I corresponded with a couple camps yesterday. A number of these camps have US owners who have not been able to cross the border and remain closed. Another camp are Canadian residents but didn't open as their customers couldn't cross border. I did not correspond with any LOTW camps but the other ones I spoke with maintain that 2021 will be booked solid. You may wish to shop now if you are in the market for 2021. |
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| with unemployment numbers creeping toward 20%, recession here and uncertain times ahead..I doubt the travel/tourism business is going to be booming in 2021. count me out for booking my 2021 plans..until 2021  |
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Location: Minnesota. | horsehunter - 6/10/2020 5:01 PM
Harvard Dr. predicting 100,000 more American deaths by Sept. Almost 1000 people died yesterday, number of cases on the rise in 19 states hospitalizations up in 12. Americans appear to be throwing away the gains that were made by earlier sacrifices by relaxing restrictions prematurely. Keep it closed.
Fishing is nothing compared to a virus that'll kill you readily and is HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS.
Horsehunter's post only makes sense! It won't be forever... |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Agree ^^^. The virus is the virus despite what some would have you believe. |
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Location: SE, WI. | Sounds like Canada borders now closed till the 21st of July:(:(:( JD |
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Location: Lake St Clair | Nooooooooooooooo |
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Location: Rochester, MN | Perhaps this is nothing and I am reading too far into this... sounds as if Parks Canada is cancelling camping reservations for international travelers through Aug 7
https://globalnews.ca/news/7075035/parks-canada-camping-national-par...
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Location: Illinois | We are supposed to be on Eagle 2nd week of September...I know there’s no way to know for sure, but are we better off finding something in the US, or just waiting it out. Our group is pretty big (~12guys), so I don’t want to wait until the last minute to find accommodations with a group that size.
Any thoughts? |
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| Like I posted earlier in the thread, ( week’s ago) we’d all see how the opening was going to go. Well, we’ve seen it. Canada has seen it, and now today even the European Union is making threats to keep us out. It’s not politics just because many of us try to make it political. It’s just a virus and we opened up the bars and beaches a bit too soon. Folks couldn’t stand it any more, I don’t blame them. I got yelled at for wearing a mask in one of my local tackle shops up here. I get it, the guy’s business is hurting and he thinks I’m gonna scare his customers. Put simply, he and others try to deny what they can’t bring themselves to admit. I’m 70, so I’m gonna be careful, I actually know some dead people from this. Anyway, my Canada trip is canceled too, it’s really disappointing, I just caught my 7th under 40 fish this season with none over 37 and I am not thrilled. But, it’s not politics, it’s just a xxxking virus. |
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| Junkman - 6/23/2020 5:30 PM
Like I posted earlier in the thread, ( week’s ago) we’d all see how the opening was going to go. Well, we’ve seen it. Canada has seen it, and now today even the European Union is making threats to keep us out. It’s not politics just because many of us try to make it political. It’s just a virus and we opened up the bars and beaches a bit too soon. Folks couldn’t stand it any more, I don’t blame them. I got yelled at for wearing a mask in one of my local tackle shops up here. I get it, the guy’s business is hurting and he thinks I’m gonna scare his customers. Put simply, he and others try to deny what they can’t bring themselves to admit. I’m 70, so I’m gonna be careful, I actually know some dead people from this. Anyway, my Canada trip is canceled too, it’s really disappointing, I just caught my 7th under 40 fish this season with none over 37 and I am not thrilled. But, it’s not politics, it’s just a xxxking virus.
Very well said Marty. |
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Location: Northern Illinois | x2 |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/rcmp-americans-banff-alaska-1...
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/americans-alaska-loophole-banff_...
These are the types of things that make Canadians want to keep the border closed.When in a foreign country follow their rules you don't make your own.
Edited by horsehunter 6/24/2020 7:26 AM
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| This isn't going to help other countries want to invite us back.
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| If you get yelled at for wearing mask, you can remind them that COVID-19 is currently the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA behind heart disease and cancer. |
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| 81% of Covid deaths in Canada were in long term care homes. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-new-data-show-canada-... |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Bondy - 6/25/2020 8:36 AM
81% of Covid deaths in Canada were in long term care homes. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-new-data-show-canada-...
When you read the article, it points out that this fact is more a statement of how Canada failed to protect the senior citizens in long term care facilities than anything else.
To quote from the article,
"The flip side of the tragedy in long-term care is that Canada has done a better job of protecting people outside of seniors’ homes from the virus than many of its peer countries.
As of May 25, Canada had recorded fewer COVID-19 deaths per million than the OECD average, better than Belgium, Spain, Britain, the U.S. and others, but worse than standouts such as Australia, Israel and Norway."
Part of this protection is, apparently, keeping us out. Edited by RLSea 6/25/2020 8:14 PM
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Location: Zimmerman | Talked tonight with the Canadian hunting outfitter I’ve gone thru several times. From what they have heard they are planning on no US hunters this yr in October unless something drastic happens. Hope they are wrong, but not looking good for getting to Canada this summer/fall. FYI |
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| Apparently 55,000 cases today .... I think people still thinking about summer trips should start coming to the realization that the border will not be opening anytime soon. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Yup. Forget about it. |
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Location: MN | Several news reports out today saying border closed through August 21st.... Is what it is but unfortunate for many.... |
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| I have heard from some in Canada that they figure 2021 before non essentials are allowed into Canada. As they start reopeniing their country starting tomorrow, they will find cases rising as well. |
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| Lake of the Woods county has 0 cases. It gets flooded by fisherman and resorts have been open all season.
Death rate in MN is .03%. 1 in 3000 are at risk of death. Odds of death by choking on food is 1 in 2800.
Canada has every right to stay closed, but the facts just don't really justify the closure. |
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| I thought they might open this fall but now I doubt the border will be open at all this year |
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| I get your argument, especially given most of the deaths are occurring in assisted living facilities, however, the death rate based on number of deaths and confirmed positive in Minnesota is 3.4% not .03%....which is a big difference. Additionally, it isn't all about deaths, it is about healthcare (and healthcare worker) capacity - just look south for evidence of this. |
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| Conservation Guy - 7/16/2020 2:15 PM
I get your argument, especially given most of the deaths are occurring in assisted living facilities, however, the death rate based on number of deaths and confirmed positive in Minnesota is 3.4% not .03%....which is a big difference. Additionally, it isn't all about deaths, it is about healthcare (and healthcare worker) capacity - just look south for evidence of this.
CDC death rate in MN is 30 per 100,000
0.03%
How much is - 30 out of 100,000 written as a percentage? Convert fraction (ratio) - 30 / 100,000 Answer: - 0.03% |
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| You cannot create a death rate based on people who have not or have not yet caught COVID.....that is a rate that will change daily. The death rate at the start of the pandemic was 0% because the first confirmed case did not die from it, so that data point was useless. Assessing at the population level is reasonable for your risks of driving or cancer or choking on food, but not a pandemic that is spreading and has yet to hit the vast majority fo the population (whereas everyone is eating every day). Death rates have everything to do with exposure in public health. |
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| Conservation Guy - 7/16/2020 2:49 PM
You cannot create a death rate based on people who have not or have not yet caught COVID.....that is a rate that will change daily. The death rate at the start of the pandemic was 0% because the first confirmed case did not die from it, so that data point was useless. Assessing at the population level is reasonable for your risks of driving or cancer or choking on food, but not a pandemic that is spreading and has yet to hit the vast majority fo the population (whereas everyone is eating every day). Death rates have everything to do with exposure in public health.
I did not create the death rate...the CDC did and they have a whole map of it on their site. https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases
However, my point was based on cases and data that's currently available its not spreading to places like Lake of the Woods county in MN, or other resort based communities.
Gondick Law speedway in Superior Wi has been holding stock car races every weekend all summer and there has been no spike in cases there either
Pretty good chance right now if you go fishing or sell bait you still have a pretty low chance of dying from Covid-19 despite the hysteria |
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| Funny how the "border is closed" but they are having 100% of the the NHL season in 2 cities in Canada. I guess if you are deemed "important" enough it's ok to cross. |
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| I thought conservationguy made the point but we will try again. The percent that have died is 0.03% not the death rate. Death rate is the number who catch the disease and die, this is 3.4% and with out an intervention the fist number will rise as more continue to catch the disease. 3.4% will not change because the death rate is dependent on catching the disease.
I am glad you do not have many cases by you but I can assure you (Chicago resident) that this is real and you will eventually see in in a neighborhood near you. Masks work and save lives. Don't be selfish out there. |
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| RJ_692 - 7/16/2020 3:06 PM
Conservation Guy - 7/16/2020 2:49 PM
You cannot create a death rate based on people who have not or have not yet caught COVID.....that is a rate that will change daily. The death rate at the start of the pandemic was 0% because the first confirmed case did not die from it, so that data point was useless. Assessing at the population level is reasonable for your risks of driving or cancer or choking on food, but not a pandemic that is spreading and has yet to hit the vast majority fo the population (whereas everyone is eating every day). Death rates have everything to do with exposure in public health.
I did not create the death rate...the CDC did and they have a whole map of it on their site. https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases
However, my point was based on cases and data that's currently available its not spreading to places like Lake of the Woods county in MN, or other resort based communities.
Gondick Law speedway in Superior Wi has been holding stock car races every weekend all summer and there has been no spike in cases there either
Pretty good chance right now if you go fishing or sell bait you still have a pretty low chance of dying from Covid-19 despite the hysteria
Just an FYI, Superior and Ashland County were listed in the state wide covid report this morning as "hot Spots". |
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| I think that everyone should be under the assumption that it's going to be closed for awhile. A staggeringly high percentage of Canadian citizens do not want the border open. |
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| KingT - 7/16/2020 5:30 PM
I think that everyone should be under the assumption that it's going to be closed for awhile. A staggeringly high percentage of Canadian citizens do not want the border open.
Doesn't help that some who were traveling through, using the exception Canada put in place for those traveling to/from Alaska abused it and became tourists. Those that got caught found out Canada does not screw around. One family that decided to tour a park in Banff instead of traveling through as they had agreed were fined several thousand dollars. |
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| What I find odd is that you can fly in, but not drive in. So if you really wanted you could fly to Winnipeg and drive to your favorite resort and rent a boat or fish with a guide.
Makes no sense to me but I’ve read the regulations. You can fly in. Unless something has changed in the last couple weeks.
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| Maybe I misunderstood what I read ... Canadians can fly into the US. But US citizens are not allowed to fly into Canada? |
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| https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/c...
This should clear things up a bit. |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | KingT - 7/16/2020 6:30 PM
I think that everyone should be under the assumption that it's going to be closed for awhile. A staggeringly high percentage of Canadian citizens do not want the border open.
Can you blame us?!!! |
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| pigeontroller - 7/19/2020 8:43 PM
KingT - 7/16/2020 6:30 PM
I think that everyone should be under the assumption that it's going to be closed for awhile. A staggeringly high percentage of Canadian citizens do not want the border open.
Can you blame us?!!!
Uh, no. |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Not one bit....
Saddens me and I am sure many others who LOVE to visit Canada for a nice fishing trip, but with so many people out there NOT doing their part to help keep themselves and other safe, I believe Canadian citizens are most definitely right in their thinking to keep the border closed. I'm betting it will be closed now for at least the remainder of the year...
Scares me to even think of bringing kids back into our schools this fall....
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | No surprise they remain closed. If I were them, I’d remain closed, too. I wish we had our act together more stateside, but we are being the irresponsible neighbor to the south and now we are paying for it with high infection rates (my family included-no #*^@ed fun). On top of that we send across the border some declaration signed by legislators from border states demanding they put forth a plan to let us back in and the joke rightfully continues. Sigh.
Had a once in a lifetime Father/son senior trip to SBL planned for next week, not sure what To do now. I doubt next summer will be any different, to be honest.
Edited by Cowboyhannah 7/20/2020 6:22 PM
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Location: Leech Lake, Walker MN | Just got back from our cabin in the Angle ! On the shuttle!
7-8 foot waves ! ,!!!! NO joke !!! 32 ft boat was like being in a 16 footer BIG WATER ,,
Know your boat And know the weather !! |
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Location: oswego, il | I heard this second hand but I was told a person was caught going to their cabin on lotw, boat confiscated and banned for life. I also heard second hand an LSC guide was caught but given a warning to return and not come across.
Edited by ToddM 7/20/2020 10:51 PM
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| Heard it from a friend
Who heard it from a friend
Who heard it from another, their not messin around
Those guys are lucky they aren’t in immigration jail. |
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| I'm sure it's no fun for the lodge owners, but it seems many of the folks down here are just that stupid where closing the border is probably the best option. Complaining about mask mandates being unconstitutional, disregarding the social distancing rules... Oh, and then there are the young folks having "Covid parties". If you haven't heard about that, look it up. Yes, that really IS a thing. Just when you thought people couldn't get get any dumber.
Pretty sure the fish won't miss us one bit this year either. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | I think the worst of the people are the ones who cough into their hand or font cover their mouth at all. In the gas station yesterday the cashier is ringing up my water bottle and hacking in her hand with her mask halfway off. Then they grab your drink by the top to scan it. Right where your mouth will go to drink it.
I just walked away and left my stuff. You can’t fix how stupid people are. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | esoxaddict - 7/21/2020 11:31 AM
I'm sure it's no fun for the lodge owners, but it seems many of the folks down here are just that stupid where closing the border is probably the best option. Complaining about mask mandates being unconstitutional, disregarding the social distancing rules... Oh, and then there are the young folks having "Covid parties". If you haven't heard about that, look it up. Yes, that really IS a thing. Just when you thought people couldn't get get any dumber.
Pretty sure the fish won't miss us one bit this year either.
The poor fish in Minnesota are the ones to suffer. 8 boats going to down north bar on leech yesterday evening. And that’s a Monday. |
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| esoxaddict - 7/21/2020 11:31 AM
I'm sure it's no fun for the lodge owners, but it seems many of the folks down here are just that stupid where closing the border is probably the best option. Complaining about mask mandates being unconstitutional, disregarding the social distancing rules... Oh, and then there are the young folks having "Covid parties". If you haven't heard about that, look it up. Yes, that really IS a thing. Just when you thought people couldn't get get any dumber.
Pretty sure the fish won't miss us one bit this year either.
My favorite for "COVID Idiot of the Month" award is the lady who when told she had to have a mask on in a Verizon store, dropped trou and peed all over the sales floor. Yeah, that will show them. |
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| All the time I was poking fun at some of our rather outspoken guides down here expressing really reckless and stupid bravado against wearing masks, it never occurred to me that they were being dumb like a fox. Their example led to runaway virus spread and Canada saying, “no way Jose!” To our visits this year. The result? Everybody has to fish down here and guides have sold out. Sorta suspected they couldn’t have been that stupid! |
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Location: oswego, il | We reap what we sow |
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| North of 8 - 7/21/2020 1:49 PM
esoxaddict - 7/21/2020 11:31 AM
I'm sure it's no fun for the lodge owners, but it seems many of the folks down here are just that stupid where closing the border is probably the best option. Complaining about mask mandates being unconstitutional, disregarding the social distancing rules... Oh, and then there are the young folks having "Covid parties". If you haven't heard about that, look it up. Yes, that really IS a thing. Just when you thought people couldn't get get any dumber.
Pretty sure the fish won't miss us one bit this year either.
My favorite for "COVID Idiot of the Month" award is the lady who when told she had to have a mask on in a Verizon store, dropped trou and peed all over the sales floor. Yeah, that will show them.
Wow. For a while now, when having discussions about mask/no mask, with people, I've been saying it is really rude and disrespectful, kind of like going up to people and peeing on their shoes. I was just trying to come up with something kind of outlandish to make a point. Didn't know it was a real thing, or how close a comparison it may have actually been. Good grief. Bunch of really wound up folks out there. |
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| esoxaddict - 7/21/2020 11:31 AM] Oh, and then there are the young folks having "Covid parties". If you haven't heard about that, look it up. Yes, that really IS a thing. Just when you thought people couldn't get get any dumber.
Makes me sort of wish these kids would get it, get sick, but not deathly so, and after they recover, say they were wrong, and everyone should observe safety protocols. But no, they'll get it, have nary a sniffle, but bring it home to Gramps and Grammy. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Some people speed in traffic endangering themselves and others.
Some like to run 4 wheelers, snowmobiles, etc like crazy people or intoxicated
Some think passing in a no passing zone while speeding by is just fine
And so on. People are not being necessarily 'stupid', they are simply displaying risky behavior as is the nature of some. 'Stupid' is not knowing or being unable to process the behavior is risky. That's a minority. Not caring doesn't make one stupid, it makes one a threat to the rest of us. I do my best to avoid being where those folks seem to gather. Example Wal Mart.
"That was stupid" is a definition of an action. The person guilty of it may be a Rhodes Scholar.
I'm one of those of folks who are informed about this thing and know exactly how to behave to minimize my exposure. I've been very clearly warned by my Doc to not be otherwise if I like the green side of the sod. Luckily, I live where I can still get out to fish and not be in contact with anyone else.
Very simply put it's a matter of choice. Some choose badly. In large groups. Those folks will pay the price on the average we are seeing of how many get very ill VS how many do not. Calculated risk? That's what this is.
I don't care what politicians of any ilk say or do not say or what the news media spouts. I know what I need to do to stay safe and I'll do exactly that.
Measure the probable impact and act accordingly. Be responsible. If we control the spread we'll eventually win this war slowly at greater cost to the economy and all that infers. If we don't we'll eventually win this war at a potentially greater cost to lives.
I'll let everyone figure out which is best for their situation. Won't change what I do.
But then I too have been called 'stupid' by some folks right here on this board. Maybe they are right.
Closing everything down will not eliminate the virus, but it will the spread far more slowly. Great strategy until there's a vaccine and everyone can slow or stop. Bad strategy if you own a resort in NW Ontario where there has been little to no support from the government up there. I spoke to Julian today at AML, he's not upset with us, he's upset there's no help coming for the resort biz up there and rightly so.
The resorts in MN are full of people who would much rather be in Canada fishing. They seem to have figured out a way to get those businesses open with minimal risk.
Meanwhile I just posted a 54.5 giant on AML's Facebook caught up there yesterday by an AML pro Guide.
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Location: oswego, il | Steve I get what you are saying but there is an exception here. There is a segment who are told and believe this pandemic is a hoax. I am in northeastern Colorado an area that voted to succeed and even with the mask mandate people refuse and I hear them complain in the checkout isles. Seen an employee even refuse at one store. |
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Location: Ashland WI | ToddM - 7/22/2020 12:31 AM
Steve I get what you are saying but there is an exception here. There is a segment who are told and believe this pandemic is a hoax. I am in northeastern Colorado an area that voted to succeed and even with the mask mandate people refuse and I hear them complain in the checkout isles. Seen an employee even refuse at one store.
Because they refuse to wear a mask, that doesn't necessarily mean they think the pandemic is a hoax.
I think Steve's take is spot on. People have been doing "risky" (stupid if you want to call it that) things since there have been people on the planet. |
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| Disappointing to hear that the resorts are not getting any help from the government. Thought Canada had a program somewhat similar to the U.S. PPA? Heck, the U.S. has given millions to strip clubs to help them from going out of business, you would think Canada could spare some change to help out family owned resorts that bring a lot of foreign exchange into the country in normal times. |
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| Covid parties=building herd immunity groups at a time.
Great post Steve.Appears my Wife and I are in the 'same boat' and doing the same things.I operate on the principle there is no free lunch.In the covid situation many believe there is.Economically and medically.There isn't.
Initially I thought either herd immunity or a 'working vaccine' would be required and all countries will eventually pay the price regardless.However,more and more it appears this thing may not allow 'lasting' immunity nor be susceptible to a one time vaccine due to mutation.
Some scientists see us 'living'(hopefully) with this for a long time.I suspect the new normal for a few years may be carefully just keeping the economy rolling.I wish I didn't own property in Canada now-for a number of reasons.Sad.
9people catchin or a workable vaccine due to mutation |
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| dickP - 7/22/2020 7:38 AM
Covid parties=building herd immunity groups at a time.
Great post Steve.Appears my Wife and I are in the 'same boat' and doing the same things.I operate on the principle there is no free lunch.In the covid situation many believe there is.Economically and medically.There isn't.
Initially I thought either herd immunity or a 'working vaccine' would be required and all countries will eventually pay the price regardless.However,more and more it appears this thing may not allow 'lasting' immunity nor be susceptible to a one time vaccine due to mutation.
Some scientists see us 'living'(hopefully) with this for a long time.I suspect the new normal for a few years may be carefully just keeping the economy rolling.I wish I didn't own property in Canada now-for a number of reasons.Sad.
Sweden thought herd immunity would be the answer, now they are in the worst shape in the region. My hope is that the virus, which mutated when going from China to Europe, will mutate again, and become much less damaging. In theory, that could happen.
9people catchin or a workable vaccine due to mutation |
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Location: Roseau | Got a call today from CBSA about the RABC if I wanted to keep my application on file, I said yes, they stated they will be on file till January 1st and then will have to reapply. He said he sees the closure pushed out to at least January 1st.
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| ToddM - 7/21/2020 11:50 AM
I heard this second hand but I was told a person was caught going to their cabin on lotw, boat confiscated and banned for life. I also heard second hand an LSC guide was caught but given a warning to return and not come across.
I'm heading up to LSC first week of August. I'll be calling the guide next week and asking him if we are just going to be on the Michigan side only or if we are allowed to venture to Canadian side as well. He didn't want us to get both license right away when we booked months ago because of weather. I did get a hold of him a couple weeks ago and he did say they were still fishing on the Canadian side as well even with the closure. |
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| That should be an adventure..is the guide gonna pay your fine too for taking you across the border? |
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| IAJustin - 7/23/2020 1:53 AM
That should be an adventure..is the guide gonna pay your fine too for taking you across the border?
We plan on fishing on the Michigan side only. I don't want to get caught up in that mess. Even if he says we can go over. Its not worth the extra hassle getting caught. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ToddM - 7/22/2020 12:31 AM
Steve I get what you are saying but there is an exception here. There is a segment who are told and believe this pandemic is a hoax. I am in northeastern Colorado an area that voted to succeed and even with the mask mandate people refuse and I hear them complain in the checkout isles. Seen an employee even refuse at one store.
That's the minority I spoke of.
Plus, there's the argument that this is not a lot worse a disease for most than other pandemics where a national shutdown was not deemed a necessity. If you want to know the facts go to this link, Mike from the Muskie Expos sent it to me this morning. It's the CDC.
Watch international news like BBC. Remember there is an election this Fall and adjust your absorption rate accordingly of any news here.
Learn about the lasting effects for some and compare that to differing strains of the flu. Other than understanding the disease, it doesn't matter to me, Covid and I can not get acquainted...ever. We are all eventually going to die, but I am in no position nor am I in a hurry to tempt death up front.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm |
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Location: SE, WI. | FYI....Ontario IS reimbursing fishing License Fee’s if you purchased before the Shutdown, prior to 3/15 2020. Ontario # 1-800-387-7011, Border closures possibly now till 4/1/2021  JD |
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| jdsplasher - 8/9/2020 7:20 AM
Border closures possibly now till 4/1/2021 JD
Or.............it may never open again, ever.
All speculation at this point. |
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Location: Roseau | I heard November 4th 2020? |
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| I still think there would need to be a huge shift in the public's opinion for that to happen. Canadians Do Not want Americans coming here. And sorry to break the news but the later we go into the fall Months flu season will be back around full swing. Your president isn't doing you any favours either with Canadians by putting tariifs on our exports to you. And again. When it does open how many of you are going to be able to qaurenteen for 14 days??? Cuz if you think that's not going to be a stipulation you are mistaken. I'm not a die hard lockdown guy either I. Actually think we are over blowing it. I'm just telling you what the vast vast majority of Canadians are thinking. |
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| I’m sure Canada will be happy to let Americans in when we are bringing a shipment vaccine that we developed with us. |
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| jb51 - 8/11/2020 9:38 AM
I’m sure Canada will be happy to let Americans in when we are bringing a shipment vaccine that we developed with us.
Perhaps, but Europe has been working on a vaccine longer and one developed in Germany shows promise of being effective against all forms of corona virus, not only COVID 19. |
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| Haha... Ya man america is the only place working on a vaccine! Maybe some Americans need to drop the arrogance and the situation could be alot better. |
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| Probably better that it comes from Europe, since Canadians are subjects of the Crown. |
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| Wow guys - this is a fishing forum.
Two voices aren't representative of all Canadians or all Americans. Gross generalizations are dangerous, no place for that here beyond we ALL love to fish muskies!!
I hope we all stay safe and we can all be good neighbors once again. |
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| Never said I was the voice for al Canadians. Just the majority. Like I said in my post. |
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Location: oswego, il | When hate is your base for information you will ignorance and arrogance. See it on FB every day.
Edited by ToddM 8/11/2020 10:52 AM
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| Wow, when someone uses Facebook to buttress an argument I know I’ve been beat. I’ll retreat back to my troll hole now. |
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| I actually love the u.s think it's the 2nd best country in the world. But to pretend that at this time canada needs America to ride in and save us from the virus is a complete fabrication of reality. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Makes little difference which vaccine is first or where it comes from. Distribution in the needed numbers does, however. I'm hoping several effective vaccines can be ready for use soon, and it looks really good. So does advancing treatment possibility.
The US is doing what it can:
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/08/07/fact-sheet-explaining-oper...
Canada has been conducting trials/studies regarding acquiring vaccines some from various sources as well.
https://pharmaphorum.com/news/canada-joins-covid-19-vaccine-race-aft...
https://www.canada.ca/en/innovation-science-economic-development/new...
Until we have the curve dropped off considerably here, I don't see any reason Canada is likely to open borders. That's reaaaaalllllyyyy bad for resorts and tourist trade up there for sure. Many will not survive, and that's not good for NW Ontario's future tourism economy. The resorts up there need help and from my conversations with AML they are not getting it. It's not pretty no matter what angle one looks at but it very simply is what it is. I have not been within less than 6' from another person other than Sue and Keith since March. It sucks. I don't give a crap about arguments or politics, anti-organ rejection therapy and added steroid treatment has me in a position where I have to be responsible for my own health, and I'm quite serious about it. I don't care what anyone else does either, that's up to them to decide and deal with the consequences just like anything in life in the US. Democracy is messy and as the population grows will get a hell of a lot messier. |
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| Why is the death RATE no longer in the news? |
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| Steve, being in the industry, do you know if the Canadian government is doing anything to help the folks who own resorts there that have been impacted by the border closure? After reading how many folks have had to cancel trips from USA to Canada, the impact as you has to be horrible. Since it was a national mandate to close the border, seems like they should provide some support for those fish camps, resorts that saw their business plummet. |
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| Death rate is no longer part of the narrative. We’ve moved on to random anecdotes regarding mysterious lingering side effects. |
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Location: Bloomington, IL | Bondy - 8/11/2020 12:11 PM
Why is the death RATE no longer in the news?
Because focusing on and fear mongering over the # of cases is what fits the media's narrative.
The MSM doesn't give a rats @$$ about reporting news anymore. You want to talk about an entity/institution trying to control an election...our media. The MSM is the most divisive, destructive entity/institution in this country, PERIOD.
Edited by Nupe 8/11/2020 12:22 PM
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| The government offered a business loan of which $10,000 is forgivable. Not enough to cover their gasoline bill. It’s a mess all around. Personally I’ve lost 98% of my guide customers. Another issue is way up north a lot of the lodges have relationships with the natives and they do not want Covid up there. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Draw your own conclusion. Remember, the main television media companies exists not to inform, but to make money from advertisers while providing the service each network deem correct to obtain the best possible bottom line. The 'independent' news sources, even the non-profits, always have their own agenda. A purely factual news program would fall flat on it's arse, not anywhere near enough entertaining.
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Location: Delavan, WI | you guys can take this how you want, but i have a relative that lives in Texas where the #s are supposedly exploding, she and several of her friends all signed up to get tested for Covid19, after waiting at facility for several hours and not getting any help they decided to leave - a few days later they all received positive results, how can this be, and they didn't even get tested- I also have an acquintance that works in the medical field and when a victim of a car accident or gun shot death comes in if they tested positive its considered a Covid19 death- I believe Covid is a real thing, but I dont believe the actual reported #s and such so I think a lot of us may be fooled by the way this disease is being reported in the news I believe theres a political and other agendas in play, I know this may get pulled, and I may have said too much, but the truth needs to be told |
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| Bondy - 8/11/2020 12:11 PM
Why is the death RATE no longer in the news?
If I look for news on COVID, I go to the MSN.com news section on COVID and they report that along with number of positives, etc. Death rate has dropped as the medical folks have learned how to better treat the illness and folks are getting tested earlier which helps with survivability. That is one bit of good news, they seem to have found ways to help people that don't involve going on a ventilator. The one med is only given to those that are pretty sick because it actually lowers the immune response. Seems ironic that the way they save some of the sickest is to purposely reduce the immune response but apparently an overly aggressive immune response to the virus is what destroys lung tissue. The Ideas Network on NPR has had many hours of interviews with scientists and doctors regarding COVID over the last few months. I listen to them on my daily walks and have found it very interesting but also reminded me why I never took any advanced biology courses. Stuff is confusing. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | muskymartin67 - 8/11/2020 12:25 PM
you guys can take this how you want, but i have a relative that lives in Texas where the #s are supposedly exploding, she and several of her friends all signed up to get tested for Covid19, after waiting at facility for several hours and not getting any help they decided to leave - a few days later they all received positive results, how can this be, and they didn't even get tested- I also have an acquaintance that works in the medical field and when a victim of a car accident or gun shot death comes in if they tested positive its considered a Covid19 death- I believe Covid is a real thing, but I dont believe the actual reported #s and such so I think a lot of us may be fooled by the way this disease is being reported in the news I believe there's a political and other agendas in play, I know this may get pulled, and I may have said too much, but the truth needs to be told
This. Democracy is messy. It is and always has been each person's personal responsibility to determine what's real and what is not and then act according to one's own beliefs. No one ever said this system's workings always work out as the best possible outcome, but the big picture end game most times wins out over the alternatives. It's up to me (not the government, that system is in place to represent the people and therein lies a big issue, that's not how this is supposed to work) to take care of me, and I'll react to others only if they get in the way of that, otherwise, have at it. Barring an accident, I should be fine physically. The rest is another story. |
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Location: Bloomington, IL | Thanks for sharing the graph Steve...plainly puts a visual into perspective to draw a conclusion.
And Martin, you are absolutely right, that is not fake news...and some areas of the country have been exposed, for lack of a better word, for double dipping, i.e. - double reporting a case:
- a person gets tested today and is positive, then the same person goes and gets tested tomorrow and is positive, that is being counted as 2 separate cases in some areas of the country.
- Or, if someone goes and gets tested in one county and is positive, and goes and gets tested in another county tomorrow and is positive...same person but is being counted as two separate cases.
The whole death count thing is skewed by a fair amount and your examples of a gun shot or car accident are true...it says as much on CDC's website. The reason why these #s are being inflated all come back to money...COVID cases = money for hospitals/medical facilities, etc. for anything COVID...the more severe the case, the more money they receive. So, you do the math. |
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| One of the most difficult aspects of distributing a vaccine if and when it is available is who gets it first. The agencies responsible are supposedly working to establish priorities. That will be something sure to create issues. Glad I am not responsible for that.
I am old enough to remember when the polio vaccine became available. My mother took us three kids to the gym at the local high school where there was looked to me like an endless line of kids with parents and table after table with people providing the vaccine. Still remember my mother crying, something she very rarely did. She was so relieved we were getting the vaccine. |
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Location: Ashland WI | muskymartin67 - 8/11/2020 12:25 PM
you guys can take this how you want, but i have a relative that lives in Texas where the #s are supposedly exploding, she and several of her friends all signed up to get tested for Covid19, after waiting at facility for several hours and not getting any help they decided to leave - a few days later they all received positive results, how can this be, and they didn't even get tested- I also have an acquintance that works in the medical field and when a victim of a car accident or gun shot death comes in if they tested positive its considered a Covid19 death- I believe Covid is a real thing, but I dont believe the actual reported #s and such so I think a lot of us may be fooled by the way this disease is being reported in the news I believe theres a political and other agendas in play, I know this may get pulled, and I may have said too much, but the truth needs to be told
Not just Texas. I live in northern WI and have heard reports of this (people testing positive that didn't actually get tested) happening here as well. |
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| Well I have heard that going in California too ... so I am guessing this is a rumor floating around. Unless you know someone personally that it's happened to and trust what they tell you, I wouldn't believe it.
My kid just told me he heard about it, so I'm guessing it's a wild rumor. |
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| What has been reported by the health departments in WI is that there is a delay in reporting of negative tests. Most agencies are swamped and report positive tests very quickly, giving a lower priority to reporting the number of negative tests. They get reported but the daily, weekly testing data are somewhat skewed because of this. |
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Location: Delavan, WI | i didnt just hear of this it actually happened to a relative of mine they have no reason to make this up!!! |
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Location: WI | Nupe - 8/11/2020
The reason why these #s are being inflated all come back to money...COVID cases = money for hospitals/medical facilities, etc. for anything COVID...the more severe the case, the more money they receive. So, you do the math.
Not really. I work for a healthcare system who’s revenue losses were in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Things have steadied since more normal business has started up again. Healthcare makes more money without covid than it does with.
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| Yeah, most of my colleagues in healthcare have faced some form of furlough because they make their money on electives, not filling up their ICUs. In Minnesota alone the lockdown cost healthcare in the realm of $3 billion. Also, I find it hilarious that people think a death certificate is something so easily manipulated. It is a legal document that a corner in every single county of this country must complete (not the healthcare systems). I suppose that all of them along with others around the globe are in on this conspiracy, right? Why are we not questioning heart attacks deaths or cancer deaths? Seems like a lot of money to be made there too right? |
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| The thing that always confuses me when people say this I all about the bengamins... Hasn't it cost your country like 3-4 trillion dollers??? |
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| As far as health care providers, my extended family has a lot of health care workers, RNs, Physical Therapist, Occupational Therapists, operating room tech, Physicians Assistant and all have experienced furloughs, reduced hours. Seem to be getting back to normal but for a couple months, nothing much was happening. My sister in law has been an operating room tech for almost 40 years at one of the larger hospitals in WI and she said it was by far the slowest time in memory. No elective surgeries for almost 2 months. She volunteered to take some reduced hours because the younger employees needed the hours more.
One of my nieces is an RN and charge nurse in large maternity ward in MN and she said even there they saw fewer patient days because they were discharging new moms so quickly. That one kind of surprised me. I am guessing not just hospitals but doctors have also taken big financial hits. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | KingT - 8/11/2020 3:48 PM
The thing that always confuses me when people say this I all about the bengamins... Hasn't it cost your country like 3-4 trillion dollers???
Competing interests capitalizing best as they can in this mess. |
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| sworrall - 8/11/2020 4:31 PM
KingT - 8/11/2020 3:48 PM
The thing that always confuses me when people say this I all about the bengamins... Hasn't it cost your country like 3-4 trillion dollers???
Competing interests capitalizing best as they can in this mess.
Messy now but wait until the fight starts over who is first in line to get any possible vaccine. There will be a priority order established by science, another by political pull. |
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| This whole Covid event needs one giant audit at the end. |
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| Bondy - 8/11/2020 5:10 PM
This whole Covid event needs one giant audit at the end.
Amen. Just look at the Kodak loan business. And no BS kind of congressional audit by congressmen needing donations. Get the bank examiners involved. They can follow a nickel through 20 pair of hands. |
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| Bondy - 8/11/2020 6:10 PM
This whole Covid event needs one giant audit at the end.
It should end up with countless perp walks and people being forced out of their positions and publicly ridiculed. Alas I believe that is only in my dreams though. |
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Location: oswego, il | zombietrolling - 8/11/2020 8:11 PM
Bondy - 8/11/2020 6:10 PM
This whole Covid event needs one giant audit at the end.
It should end up with countless perp walks and people being forced out of their positions and publicly ridiculed. Alas I believe that is only in my dreams though.
Along with the conspiracy news. |
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Along with the conspiracy news.
Amen to that brother. In this day in age with social media everything becomes a conspiracy. Almost like we are living in the matrix. Nothing happens by chance. And we are lied to about every aspect of life. 5g is gonna kill us, Bill gates is responsible for covid, president Bush did 9/11...global warming is a lie .... It's essentially everything in our world. Maybe I'm wrong but I still believe there is some good left in humanity and our leaders. That's some of what we are told is the truth. I sure hope to God that I am right. Because if there are no people out there that still have a soul and aren't driven strictly by momey. We are F@C#ED |
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Location: Bloomington, IL | raftman - 8/11/2020 3:00 PM
Nupe - 8/11/2020
The reason why these #s are being inflated all come back to money...COVID cases = money for hospitals/medical facilities, etc. for anything COVID...the more severe the case, the more money they receive. So, you do the math.
Not really. I work for a healthcare system who’s revenue losses were in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Things have steadied since more normal business has started up again. Healthcare makes more money without covid than it does with.
Agree, hospitals lost a lot of revenue, due to the shutdowns of normal operations from not being able to do things like elective surgeries, which did result in furloughs. I wasn’t stating that hospitals are making more money from COVID than normal operations, because that’s not true. I’ll retract this part of my statement “the more severe the case, the more money they receive”, but hospitals do receive more money for patients diagnosed with COVID than not diagnosed with COVID. So, #s are being skewed because there is incentive to report a case as COVID.
And completely agree with Bondy on one big giant audit at the end, but unfortunately, it will never happen.
Regardless, just hope a vaccine comes quicker rather than later because of the sense of relief it will likely bring a lot of people...so far tests/trials look promising.
Edited by Nupe 8/12/2020 8:05 AM
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Location: Chisholm, MN | The thing that burns me most is canceling "elective" surgeries. There are so many people that NEEDED the elective surgeries and are now suffering greatly because of this. But a government gets to decide who gets health care and who doesn't when there is an overblown pandemic! You should never trust the government. |
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Location: Ashland WI | KingT - 8/12/2020 7:15 AM
Along with the conspiracy news.
Amen to that brother. In this day in age with social media everything becomes a conspiracy. Almost like we are living in the matrix. Nothing happens by chance. And we are lied to about every aspect of life. 5g is gonna kill us, Bill gates is responsible for covid, president Bush did 9/11...global warming is a lie .... It's essentially everything in our world. Maybe I'm wrong but I still believe there is some good left in humanity and our leaders. That's some of what we are told is the truth. I sure hope to God that I am right. Because if there are no people out there that still have a soul and aren't driven strictly by momey. We are F@C#ED
IMO this goes back to what Steve said about "news" (entertainment) sources. We need to keep in mind each source is doing what they think is best to sell more. |
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| Kirby Budrow - 8/12/2020 8:49 AM
The thing that burns me most is canceling "elective" surgeries. There are so many people that NEEDED the elective surgeries and are now suffering greatly because of this. But a government gets to decide who gets health care and who doesn't when there is an overblown pandemic! You should never trust the government.
Those decisions were made by the health care institutions, not the government, at least here in WI. Again, have multiple family members working in health care and in each case, it was the hospital's decision. Two of them, a sister in law and a niece, work in operating rooms as an operating room tech and a Physicians Assistant respectively, and it was their employer's decision to cancel elective surgeries. The fear is that should COVID spread in a hospital setting, it would kill a lot of vulnerable patients. The government issued guidelines, recommendations, but the institutions made the final decision. |
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| Electives were restricted by many states, but just during the original surge - and for good reason given the extremely limited capacity for treating seriously ill patients. Those restrictions do not exist today, the bigger challenge is that people are avoiding clinic/hospital visits for preventive screening and even for serious issues because of their own concerns/lack of insurance because of losing a job, not the government. |
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Location: WI | Nupe - 8/12/2020 7:56 AM
raftman - 8/11/2020 3:00 PM
Nupe - 8/11/2020
The reason why these #s are being inflated all come back to money...COVID cases = money for hospitals/medical facilities, etc. for anything COVID...the more severe the case, the more money they receive. So, you do the math.
Not really. I work for a healthcare system who’s revenue losses were in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Things have steadied since more normal business has started up again. Healthcare makes more money without covid than it does with.
Agree, hospitals lost a lot of revenue, due to the shutdowns of normal operations from not being able to do things like elective surgeries, which did result in furloughs. I wasn’t stating that hospitals are making more money from COVID than normal operations, because that’s not true. I’ll retract this part of my statement “the more severe the case, the more money they receive”, but hospitals do receive more money for patients diagnosed with COVID than not diagnosed with COVID. So, #s are being skewed because there is incentive to report a case as COVID.
And completely agree with Bondy on one big giant audit at the end, but unfortunately, it will never happen.
Regardless, just hope a vaccine comes quicker rather than later because of the sense of relief it will likely bring a lot of people...so far tests/trials look promising.
I’m not denying that some fraud could be happening, but to the extent that would have any meaningful impact on the numbers being reported is just not possible. The electronic trail left from placement of order to result posting to a patient chart is heavily audited and very easy to recover. The labs in these healthcare systems are heavily regulated. The coordination and number of people required to create such massive fraud would not be worth the couple extra dollars for a covid patient. |
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Location: MN | This thing has made me realize two things:
1. Mainstream media has an extremely large amount of control over people's thoughts and feelings.
2. A lot of people lack the mental ability to look at facts and come to their own conclusion. Even people that seem fairly level headed and sharp.
Agree with Bondy, we need an audit at the end of this. I predict years from now, we will look back on Covid as the biggest over reaction by our country and our world.
Quarantining the healthy to protect the vulnerable has never been done in history. There is a reason for that. |
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| Over reaction? This will be the third leading cause of death in the U.S this year, and it didn't even start impacting people widespread until well into March. Also, we learned the value of social distancing from the last pandemic in 1918, so yes it has been done before...and it has been done in other countries that have had to manage outbreaks of SARS, etc. Out of curiosity, what is the reasonable response to a disease that will kill in the neighborhood of 300,000 Americans in a 12 month period? |
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Location: oswego, il | What I have learned from this is conspiracy media will twist this to fit their agenda. Marxist could be a drinking game. Seen it compared to men's breast cancer, called a hoax, sent here to rig the election. Misinformation is real and unfortunately bought by many without second thought. Most of it can be debunked by a simple Google search. |
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Location: Bloomington, IL | Agree raftman, however, being able to report a case or death as COVID in such fashion, whether it truly is or it isn't, is being done so under the CDC's guidelines as it says as much on the CDC's website. It's layered within the many links on the website, but it's there, I read if for myself. So, that's the out for them, if you will, of not fraudulently reporting a case/death as COVID, thus why #s are skewed by a fair amount.
Nershio's right on about the MSM trying to largely control people's thoughts and feelings by driving narratives and fearmongering, preying on people's mental and/or physical ability to look at facts and come to their own conclusion...can't tell you how many times the MSM over and over and over again reports with slanted headlines and/or false stories only to be caught, but then barely acknowledge let alone retract their lies. The MSM media jumps on bandwagons and "reports" without vetting anymore...I'll just leave it at that. Like I said, the MSM is the most divisive institution in the country, PERIOD. Social Media is right there with the MSM though with how destructive it has become for society.
I'm ready to be socially distant in my boat this fall.
Edited by Nupe 8/12/2020 1:39 PM
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Location: WI | Criticisms of MSM are absolutely fair. Today’s “news” is nothing more than opinion and commentary and should be consumed as such. I’m in 100% agreement that all should wear masks but I almost feel like not wearing one sometimes just because I’m so tired of the shaming that goes on in the media. |
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| sworrall - 8/11/2020 11:28 AM
Makes little difference which vaccine is first or where it comes from. Distribution in the needed numbers does, however. I'm hoping several effective vaccines can be ready for use soon, and it looks really good. So does advancing treatment possibility.
The US is doing what it can:
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/08/07/fact-sheet-explaining-oper...
Canada has been conducting trials/studies regarding acquiring vaccines some from various sources as well.
https://pharmaphorum.com/news/canada-joins-covid-19-vaccine-race-aft...
https://www.canada.ca/en/innovation-science-economic-development/new...
Until we have the curve dropped off considerably here, I don't see any reason Canada is likely to open borders. That's reaaaaalllllyyyy bad for resorts and tourist trade up there for sure. Many will not survive, and that's not good for NW Ontario's future tourism economy. The resorts up there need help and from my conversations with AML they are not getting it. It's not pretty no matter what angle one looks at but it very simply is what it is. I have not been within less than 6' from another person other than Sue and Keith since March. It sucks. I don't give a crap about arguments or politics, anti-organ rejection therapy and added steroid treatment has me in a position where I have to be responsible for my own health, and I'm quite serious about it. I don't care what anyone else does either, that's up to them to decide and deal with the consequences just like anything in life in the US. Democracy is messy and as the population grows will get a hell of a lot messier.
All depends on what your definition of 'soon' is. Goldman Sachs has one of the more aggressive vaccine/overall economic outlooks I've come across, and they predict a vaccine will be approved by year end 2020 and widely distributable by the end of the 2nd quarter 2021 - - so close to a year from now.
Monoclonal antibodies and other forms of treatment, at this point, are further along than vaccines (from a trial perspective). Some of these antibodies that stop the cytokine storm could be game changers for those most at risk from a health perspective. |
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| KingT - 8/12/2020 7:15 AM
Along with the conspiracy news.
Amen to that brother. In this day in age with social media everything becomes a conspiracy. Almost like we are living in the matrix. Nothing happens by chance. And we are lied to about every aspect of life. 5g is gonna kill us, Bill gates is responsible for covid, president Bush did 9/11...global warming is a lie .... It's essentially everything in our world. Maybe I'm wrong but I still believe there is some good left in humanity and our leaders. That's some of what we are told is the truth. I sure hope to God that I am right. Because if there are no people out there that still have a soul and aren't driven strictly by momey. We are F@C#ED
The whole Bill Gates/virus conspiracy theory is so far beyond stupid. If anyone thinks that theory has legs, then I have a T-Bird country bridge you'd be real interested in buying.
Gates was so far out ahead of this pandemic. This clip was from 2015, I believe.. It's worth a quick watch. The world needs more people like him in it from both an intellectual and charitable standpoint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI |
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Location: oswego, il | Conspiracy media has been far more destructive over the past 35 years dividing this country, PERIOD. Main stream media will always follow and compete for the hottest topic. That's never changed. Not a conspiracy. Morton Downey Jr. Was one of the first conspiracy media hosts. Really all you need to know about it.
Edited by ToddM 8/12/2020 3:12 PM
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| Berkshire24 - 8/12/2020 2:53 PM
KingT - 8/12/2020 7:15 AM
Along with the conspiracy news.
Amen to that brother. In this day in age with social media everything becomes a conspiracy. Almost like we are living in the matrix. Nothing happens by chance. And we are lied to about every aspect of life. 5g is gonna kill us, Bill gates is responsible for covid, president Bush did 9/11...global warming is a lie .... It's essentially everything in our world. Maybe I'm wrong but I still believe there is some good left in humanity and our leaders. That's some of what we are told is the truth. I sure hope to God that I am right. Because if there are no people out there that still have a soul and aren't driven strictly by momey. We are F@C#ED
The whole Bill Gates/virus conspiracy theory is so far beyond stupid. If anyone thinks that theory has legs, then I have a T-Bird country bridge you'd be real interested in buying.
Gates was so far out ahead of this pandemic. This clip was from 2015, I believe.. It's worth a quick watch. The world needs more people like him in it from both an intellectual and charitable standpoint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI
NPR played the interview with Gates from 2015 this morning, where he stated that world would be facing a pandemic and that we were not prepared to do so. |
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Location: Ashland WI | ToddM - 8/12/2020 3:10 PM
Conspiracy media has been far more destructive over the past 35 years dividing this country, PERIOD. Main stream media will always follow and compete for the hottest topic. That's never changed. Not a conspiracy. Morton Downey Jr. Was one of the first conspiracy media hosts. Really all you need to know about it.
Todd... Is the conspiracy media still all one sided? Or have you changed at all on that yet? |
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| Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want but you can't tell me the following is completely untrue:
https://www.banned.video/watch?id=5f31a8bddf77c4044ed49e33
BTW, who stands to make all the money from the Covid vaccine? Fauci's net worth today vs. two years from now would be interesting to know. Corruption at all levels is real.
Forget Covid. The MSM should be covering #PIZZAGATE and taking down the sick pedo elite in this country. All we hear is crickets from them. Look at Epstein's flight logs - a bunch of sickos in Hollywood and Washington. One name NOT on those logs is Trump. Clintons, Obama, Podesta, the more you read it's all very disturbing. If you don't believe there is something to the pizzagate you're naïve as heck. In addition, Biden sniffing and touching little girls is NOT normal. It's a mad, mad world. There's your conspiracy theories for today.
Tight lines...
Edited by MartinTD 8/13/2020 7:46 AM
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| MartinTD - 8/13/2020 7:32 AM
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want but you can't tell me the following is completely untrue:
https://www.banned.video/watch?id=5f31a8bddf77c4044ed49e33
BTW, who stands to make all the money from the Covid vaccine? Fauci's net worth today vs. two years from now would be interesting to know. Corruption at all levels is real.
Forget Covid. The MSM should be covering #PIZZAGATE and taking down the sick pedo elite in this country. All we hear is crickets from them. Look at Epstein's flight logs - a bunch of sickos in Hollywood and Washington. One name NOT on those logs is Trump. Clintons, Obama, Podesta, the more you read it's all very disturbing. If you don't believe there is something to the pizzagate you're naïve as heck. In addition, Biden sniffing and touching little girls is NOT normal. It's a mad, mad world. There's your conspiracy theories for today.
You do know there are numerous photos of Trump with Epstein, right? You do know the Pizza place has no basement, right?
Tight lines... |
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Location: Vilas | WOW! I think some of you need to turn off Fox/CNN and pick up your fish pole.
MartinTD....you left out the Illuminati, skinwalker ranch, bigfoot and ufo`s....and yes, youre a conspiracy nut. You and Jesse Ventura would get along just fine |
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Location: Elroy, Wisconsin | Federal money to hospitals is not based on Covid 19 incedance period. Grants so far have been for lost revenue to help employees lost wages and hospital income shortfall.
All this speculation and calls for audits is a waste of time. I serve on a hospital board and I am familiar with finances during the pandemic. The rumors spreading is just a waste of time.
Mudpuppy |
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Location: oswego, il | You need hate to breed conspiracy. Plenty of it has been brewed and it's unfortunate. I have no interest in pursuing hate based beliefs. I will take science over conspiracy any day.
Edited by ToddM 8/13/2020 3:57 PM
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| ToddM - 8/13/2020 3:55 PM
You need hate to breed conspiracy. Plenty of it has been brewed and it's unfortunate. I have no interest in pursuing hate based beliefs. I will take science over conspiracy any day.
Sadly, we live in a time where a large minority of the population do not believe in science. And not really a new phenomenon. Listened to an author being interviewed a couple months ago. He wrote a book on the subject 4 or 5 years ago. The interviewer asked him about why so many people did not believe the medical experts on COVID 19.
He said he research for the book told him that this is not unique to the current pandemic. And that this has grown in proportion the growth in the percentage of the population that has a high school degree. |
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| Problem is the field of science has been corrupted by the thirst for the almighty dollar. Journalists/scientists/professors have mostly become activists.
Edited by Bondy 8/13/2020 6:21 PM
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Bondy - 8/13/2020 5:59 PM
Problem is the field of science has been corrupted by the thirst for the almighty dollar. Journalists/scientists/professors have mostly become activists.
And this is what I’ve always said. And most people would believe science if the people who were telling them what the science was were trustworthy. |
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| Again it goes back to the fact that if there is no one good left in the world.... That is sad. Really really sad. I refuse to believe that tho.... That some don't feel the need to put humanity over a dollar. |
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Location: oswego, il | I certainly don't believe the conspiracy news that continually calls it out on a daily basis. Classic divide and conquer. I didn't fall for it. Greed corrupts, so does absolute power and hate. |
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Location: Northern Illinois | .
Edited by RLSea 8/13/2020 9:20 PM
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Location: WI | ToddM - 8/13/2020 3:55 PM
You need hate to breed conspiracy. Plenty of it has been brewed and it's unfortunate. I have no interest in pursuing hate based beliefs. I will take science over conspiracy any day.
Not sure hate is a requirement. We have enough institutional failure in this world to create a healthy amount of skepticism of authority and “experts”. See Catholic Church, penn state, Wall Street, federal government, state government, Weinstein, madoff, lauer, WMD in Iraq, Democrats, Republicans, trillion dollar bailouts written behind close doors by lawyers and special interests and voted on without being read, police kneeling on necks, police shooting people running away in the back, presidential election between 2 well past their prime men who would be better served in retirement homes.......
These times are made for conspiracy theories. |
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Location: Northern Illinois | ToddM - 8/13/2020 7:12 PM
I certainly don't believe the conspiracy news that continually calls it out on a daily basis. Classic divide and conquer. I didn't fall for it. Greed corrupts, so does absolute power and hate.
Agree |
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Location: Ashland WI | North of 8 - 8/13/2020 5:26 PM
ToddM - 8/13/2020 3:55 PM
You need hate to breed conspiracy. Plenty of it has been brewed and it's unfortunate. I have no interest in pursuing hate based beliefs. I will take science over conspiracy any day.
Sadly, we live in a time where a large minority of the population do not believe in science. And not really a new phenomenon. Listened to an author being interviewed a couple months ago. He wrote a book on the subject 4 or 5 years ago. The interviewer asked him about why so many people did not believe the medical experts on COVID 19.
He said he research for the book told him that this is not unique to the current pandemic. And that this has grown in proportion the growth in the percentage of the population that has a high school degree.
What about when some doctors proclaim “different” science than others?
What about when some doctors try to state something and get shut out of social media?
That makes me suspicious. |
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| Our fishing trip wasn't the greatest on St Claire. We only got two muskies out of two days. My brother did catch a real nice small mouth. The first day we basically fished on rolling waves all day. I don't know how any of us didn't get sea sickness. The second day was better, I had five muskies strike my lures boat side but never got a hook set in them. Dad however got his first musky ever and that made the whole trip worth it. To see how proud he was getting his first one was awesome. Also watching 8 A10 warthogs fly over us and land was awesome as well. Our guide which I won't mention was warned 2 times by Canadian patrol for crossing the border prior to our trip and they told him the third time they will take all of his stuff. We even watch the US patrol run some Canadians back to there side as well. They are enforcing it up there. We did watch a guy land a 47.5 about 100 yards away from us. The guides did say though that we would of been on the Canadian side both days if it wasn't for the closure of the borders due to the weather at the time we were up there. |
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| 14ledo81 - 8/14/2020 5:32 AM
North of 8 - 8/13/2020 5:26 PM
ToddM - 8/13/2020 3:55 PM
You need hate to breed conspiracy. Plenty of it has been brewed and it's unfortunate. I have no interest in pursuing hate based beliefs. I will take science over conspiracy any day.
Sadly, we live in a time where a large minority of the population do not believe in science. And not really a new phenomenon. Listened to an author being interviewed a couple months ago. He wrote a book on the subject 4 or 5 years ago. The interviewer asked him about why so many people did not believe the medical experts on COVID 19.
He said he research for the book told him that this is not unique to the current pandemic. And that this has grown in proportion the growth in the percentage of the population that has a high school degree.
What about when some doctors proclaim “different” science than others?
What about when some doctors try to state something and get shut out of social media?
That makes me suspicious.
Perhaps it is the way you define "science". For instance, the doctor who Trump recently promoted, claiming she had "cured" numerous patients using Hydroxychoraquine. That is anectdotal, she had no data that proved they had COVID 19, she had no test group that were not given the drug, which is how a true scientific experiment is done, etc. And let us not for get that this same doctor claims she has proof that some human maladies are the result of sex with aliens and demons.
From the stand point of science, she is not a scientist. |
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| I should have also said that one of the bedrock principles of science is peer review. You publish your findings and fellow scientists review the data and depending on other factors, will try and replicate your findings. Only when that has happened is it considered established science. Too often what makes it into the news is a preliminary report on something. Has not been reviewed, replicated, etc. |
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| Bondy - 8/13/2020 5:59 PM
Problem is the field of science has been corrupted by the thirst for the almighty dollar. Journalists/scientists/professors have mostly become activists.
I am a scientist and I assure you the scientists have not become activists. The propagation and manipulation of our data is what you refer to. I left my last job at a pharmaceutical company for these reasons. Primarily, "their interpretation of my data" is a breaking point for most real scientists. "they" in this case being our business team that had absolutely no idea what it meant except, this conclusion makes us more money and since we can't tell the investors wont be able too either. |
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| bbeaupre - 8/14/2020 10:15 AM
Bondy - 8/13/2020 5:59 PM
Problem is the field of science has been corrupted by the thirst for the almighty dollar. Journalists/scientists/professors have mostly become activists.
I am a scientist and I assure you the scientists have not become activists. The propagation and manipulation of our data is what you refer to. I left my last job at a pharmaceutical company for these reasons. Primarily, "their interpretation of my data" is a breaking point for most real scientists. "they" in this case being our business team that had absolutely no idea what it meant except, this conclusion makes us more money and since we can't tell the investors wont be able too either.
Happens in the governmental sector as well. The CDC, under instruction from the Trump administration, sent a letter to employees outlining words and phrases that were not to be used in official communication. An example is "climate change". Same thing happened in WI under Scott Walker. Thanks to the grand daughter of the late senator Gaylord Nelson, who helped with the landmark clean air/clean water legislation in the 1970s, we learned that state employees were not to use the term "climate change" in communication. |
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Location: Madison | Good read here on conspiracy group Q which has been classified as a domestic terrorist organization by the FBI and apparently has followers in this thread: https://t.co/y3wIYQBxCc |
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Location: oswego, il | 14ledo81 - 8/14/2020 5:32 AM
North of 8 - 8/13/2020 5:26 PM
ToddM - 8/13/2020 3:55 PM
You need hate to breed conspiracy. Plenty of it has been brewed and it's unfortunate. I have no interest in pursuing hate based beliefs. I will take science over conspiracy any day.
Sadly, we live in a time where a large minority of the population do not believe in science. And not really a new phenomenon. Listened to an author being interviewed a couple months ago. He wrote a book on the subject 4 or 5 years ago. The interviewer asked him about why so many people did not believe the medical experts on COVID 19.
He said he research for the book told him that this is not unique to the current pandemic. And that this has grown in proportion the growth in the percentage of the population that has a high school degree.
What about when some doctors proclaim “different” science than others?
What about when some doctors try to state something and get shut out of social media?
That makes me suspicious.
You mean hydroxyhoax? There have been some shut out of social media for their false and misleading information. Seen a doozy of a hoax video today one of my consiracy friends sent me. Simple Google search disproved it. He kept ending his replies with the OK symbol. This isn't getting any better and we won't be getting to a uniteable place. I hope it doesn't get to the point of accomplishment, breaking us. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Every morning I thank God that I live on the north side of the line. My niece is taking a job in California and even tho she will be making over 500,000 loonies a year baby brother isn't thrilled. |
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| waldo - 8/14/2020 10:47 AM
Good read here on conspiracy group Q which has been classified as a domestic terrorist organization by the FBI and apparently has followers in this thread: https://t.co/y3wIYQBxCc
Two Republican primary winners for the house of Representatives are avid supporters of Q-Anon. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | OK, let's keep the basement hard lean towards getting into a politically charged discussion off the subject matter going out of this thread, please. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | closure extended to Sept 21 |
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| Codeman, glad to see an actual fishing post in this waylaid topic. I believe politics belongs in political forums, since this is supposed to be a fishing forum, I'd prefer to read facts and fishing posts. Just my 2 cents. |
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| Extended to sept 21.....amd then on September 15th....its going to be extended till October 21st and so on and so on. |
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