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Posts: 426
Location: Perryville, MO | The "Let down bait" thread has me wondering what real game changers have come along over the years with regard to muskie fishing. I shared my opinion that no lure has come along as a true "game changer." Some will argue that double 10's or large plastics did in fact "change the game." I don't think so, but maybe someone can convince me otherwise. Now that I've written this I'm thinking this has been discussed before, but my quick search didn't find it so maybe its worth another look anyway. What has really changed the game for you?
I'll suggest finders, gps, and even trolling motors (in particular "spot lock"). I don't have power poles, but I can imagine some would say shallow water anchors for sure. 9'+ rods instead of broom handles maybe too? Better "reels" (someone will surely say the Tranx)? I don't know. |
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Posts: 152
| Has there been any new baits in 25+ years?. Many takes on what has already been made but nothing really new. |
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Posts: 2318
Location: Chisholm, MN | I’d argue that the Terrova is in the top 5 best things that ever happened to muskie fishing. Yes, Musky Mayhem bucktails are there for me too. Along with lakemaster chips, high speed reels, and side imaging. |
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Posts: 108
| I have been hard core muskie fishing since 1979. I would feel completely comfortable fishing now with the lures, line, electronics, boat, and reels from that time period. Of course there have bern improvements in all of those since 1979. However, the true game changer in my opinion are the rods. They are 100% better than 1979. There wasn't even a graphite muskie rod in 1979. All rods were 6 foot or less fiberglass, totally worthless compared to today. |
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| I started musky fishing in the mid 70s and while modern rods are huge improvement, I think modern trolling motors are the single biggest improvement. You either drifted or took turns rowing when I started. There were a few trolling motors around but if it wasn't dead calm, they didn't help much. I was away from musky fishing for a number of years and when I returned that was what so impressed me, the ability to work a spot, to move in a controlled manner with very reliable and powerful trolling motor. |
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Posts: 120
| Lakemaster and spot lock are both huge. I can fish so many areas with only myself in the boat that I could not do without spot lock. I remember being in my brothers boat on bigger waters trying to hold the map in the wind and spray navigating before GPS and lake chips. It was a royal pain but I guess even a paper map would be a game changer from the time when there was none.
Kirby,
I am surprised you mention the Terrova. I am not trying to knock your comment or opinion. I remember fishing in my buddies boat on LOTW about 10 years ago with his Terrova and I honestly wanted to rip it off the boat and throw it in the lake. I couldnt stand that thing. I had a Foretrex at the time and the cable steer vs electric steer is night and day better for boat control. The only thing I did like about the Terrova was spot lock. This was long before the Ultrex that I now run. Has the Terrova changed in some way from 10 years ago or so? I do see people running them I just dont understand why and find myself wondering if these people have ever used a cable steer. |
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Posts: 59
| Cable steers are terrible! Terrova vs fortrex isn't even a fair comparison imo. |
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Posts: 2318
Location: Chisholm, MN | I far prefer a terrova over any cable steer because I almost never fish from the front of the boat. I’d rather net a fish for my boat partner than make them net one for me. Mine is 6 years old and has no issues. I don’t treat it well either. Wouldn’t fish without one. |
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Posts: 1241
Location: Walker, MN | I'd echo that Ulterra or Terrova trolling motors have made things much easier. Side imaging is getting scary, I'm actually concerned for the fish. Braided lines have really been a game changer too, that old dacron was terrible. |
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Location: Neapolitan Chain Of Lakes | Wow since double 10's aren't considered a game changer I'd have to go back to the invention of the automobile! LOL
I mean really Cowgirls and showgirls weren't game changers??? I clearly remember the quiet rumble and secrecy in it's infancy and it's a lure that actually did live up to the hype in my experience when I got my hands on some. You can go on youtube right now and watch some old videos of the early days of Brad Hoppe taping Jason H. winning tournaments using the cowgirls and showgirls as well as I clearly remember Brad himself telling me way back then that Jason was boating a TON of BIG fish. No I am not tight with Brad nor am I a bait salesman but I did see him on the water rarely back then and I remember thinking "Is there actually a bait that can put big fish in the boat that consistently?" I mean a lot of you guys can remember trying to find big fish and stalking it for an entire season and aligning the weather and hopefully the right bait to get it to mess up right? Then you could throw on this new magic bait that was super hard pulling yet angry giants would come out of the woodwork to destroy them! There's a reason that all you heard in most boats was blade clanking all over the lake and those baits weren't called Headbangers! Lol.
I think many many things have been game changers for me. How about boats? I mean I remember the old crap I had nearly all my life (Which I thought was just fine and WAS even tho I had to manually bail the water out every hour) and once I bought my newer aircraft carrier with a super wide backside, large casting decks, powerful big motor with a small kicker, powerful foot pedal controlled electric trolling motor, a super dry ride on cold fall days, and on and on it made it sooooo much easier to fish ALL day. So the older I get the more everything becomes a game changer because now I can throw a 2 pound bait on an ultralight rod, reel in a double 10 without having to get carpal tunnel surgery every 6 months, ride in 5 foot waves on an air ride boat seat (I do not have the money for this lil game changer yet), and set my trolling motor to autopilot and forget about it while I cast away on a prime spot. So I say nearly everything is a game changer if it helps you stay out longer.
As far as "game changer" baits go and full disclosure here every year I drool over all the game changers I've purchased and somehow I have to find the right time, place, presentation, and fish for them to live up to that name. So I say if you haven't caught any fish in awhile the bait you have on when she comes to call and you get bit is in fact a game changer.
If The automobile wasn't far enough back for ya how bout we go to the ultimate game changer that came around near the beginning of time and which will be poppin up tonight.....a little thing called the MOON! I'm going to be out tonight taking advantage of the first game changer and clipping on some game changing lures so wish me luck!!! |
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Posts: 1291
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Been in this game for over 60 years. As for lures, the Double Cowgirl became what I considered a true "magic lure" and said so when I introduced Brad as a speaker at the Chicago Muskie Show a few years back. And of course since then, Bulldawgs have to be added to the nearly "magic" lure category, as well as other rubber like the Red October and the Bondy Bait. These in the latter category, of course have to be "worked" properly to have maxim effectiveness, whereas the Cowgirls just do it on their own!
39 Degrees: Yes, there was a graphite rod in 1979 (Skyline I believe it was), but it was JUNK as far as muskie fishing was concerned! The late Al Skaar and I both had one and we lost at least 40 muskies between us before we realized that it was that #*^@ new "graphite rod". It just had no backbone. |
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Posts: 318
| Fun thread.
If memory serves(who knows anymore)my first musky was in N Wisconsin in the 60s while attending UW Madison.I believe it may have been a Pflueger bucktail modified with added weight.Anyway a real contraption of sorts that made D10 class noises BUT only while airborne,not in the water.
The first real 'game changer' for me was shortly before that when Lowrance came out with the green box in the late 50s.Everything I fished became more catchable with that and suddenly I started to 'get it'..
In musky fishing before that I suspect the Suick was a game changer when introduced.
Since my first musky,for me the only real game changer has been the D10.Zero doubt about that for me.A true 'night and day bait'.Not sure if I should love or hate Brad and wife for that.:-) |
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Posts: 4269
Location: Ashland WI | jboutdoorguy - 5/6/2020 11:32 PM
Lakemaster and spot lock are both huge. I can fish so many areas with only myself in the boat that I could not do without spot lock. I remember being in my brothers boat on bigger waters trying to hold the map in the wind and spray navigating before GPS and lake chips. It was a royal pain but I guess even a paper map would be a game changer from the time when there was none.
Kirby,
I am surprised you mention the Terrova. I am not trying to knock your comment or opinion. I remember fishing in my buddies boat on LOTW about 10 years ago with his Terrova and I honestly wanted to rip it off the boat and throw it in the lake. I couldnt stand that thing. I had a Foretrex at the time and the cable steer vs electric steer is night and day better for boat control. The only thing I did like about the Terrova was spot lock. This was long before the Ultrex that I now run. Has the Terrova changed in some way from 10 years ago or so? I do see people running them I just dont understand why and find myself wondering if these people have ever used a cable steer.
Kirby touched on this already, but I will as well.
The way I fish, I could not use a cable steer. I fish in the back of the boat as well. I just leave the trolling motor on (2-5) depending on the wind, and make steering adjustments (with the remote) between casts. Just keep a steady pace along the piece of structure I am fishing. |
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Posts: 630
Location: Duluth | everyone has touched on the obvious stuff like dawgs and double tens. For me the real game changer has been Jet Drive outboards. Yes they have been around for a while, but being able to access deep holes above previously unnavigable rapids changed the game.
I-Pilot link is also so high on the list, I love having my boat drive me around. |
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Posts: 108
| GPS, Side Imaging, Live Imaging, Map Chips, and the internet.
It is crazy how fast information travels today vs 30 years ago and that does have a major impact on muskie fishing! |
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Location: Contrarian Island | boats in general and all the toys on them have opened up big water to so many more anglers... look at the boats that were top of the line fishing boats in the 60s/70s, you wouldn't be caught dead in one of those on GB/LSC/LOTW now... all the big rangers guys have, map chips, good trolling motor, batteries, and reliable outboards have made fishing easier. not sure I'd say any lure is a game changer as put hooks on a hot dog and have 10,000 musky guys throw it fish will bite it... finding and staying on fish is getting almost too easy with all the fancy electronics... |
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Posts: 20211
Location: oswego, il | I will add braided line.
Cable drives are for bass boats putting the nose of the boat in position and pitch. I can't stand them. I have wasted so many casts being in a boat with a cable drive. Running them isn't fun at all being off balance. My terrova on my big boat and hand control on my little boat keeps me perfect all the time. I could not ever say that with a cable drive or a remote on a lanyard for that matter. |
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Posts: 4269
Location: Ashland WI | ToddM - 5/7/2020 9:23 AM
I will add braided line.
Cable drives are for bass boats putting the nose of the boat in position and pitch. I can't stand them. I have wasted so many casts being in a boat with a cable drive. Running them isn't fun at all being off balance. My terrova on my big boat and hand control on my little boat keeps me perfect all the time. I could not ever say that with a cable drive or a remote on a lanyard for that matter.
That makes sense. Bass guys are more often poking in an and out of smaller areas, docks, weed openings, etc. I can see a cable drive excelling in that scenario. |
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Posts: 72
| I always love the cable drive vs. power drive argument. I am in the cable drive category. The precision boat control ability, especially under adverse conditions, is second to none. I grew up bass fishing, so I'm sure that leads to my bias, but I absolutely can't stand the Terrovas. I would consider spot lock a "game changer." |
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| Lester Neigard - 5/7/2020 10:34 AM
I always love the cable drive vs. power drive argument. I am in the cable drive category. The precision boat control ability, especially under adverse conditions, is second to none. I grew up bass fishing, so I'm sure that leads to my bias, but I absolutely can't stand the Terrovas. I would consider spot lock a "game changer."
Just wondering, the advantage of the cable drive is that it responds more quickly? Have never used one, but I know there are folks who feel very strongly about them. Had a co-worker put a Terrova on his boat and then go back to the dealer a couple weeks later and get a cable drive because he just was not comfortable with non-cable drive. |
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Posts: 32882
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 14ledo81 - 5/7/2020 9:37 AM
ToddM - 5/7/2020 9:23 AM
I will add braided line.
Cable drives are for bass boats putting the nose of the boat in position and pitch. I can't stand them. I have wasted so many casts being in a boat with a cable drive. Running them isn't fun at all being off balance. My terrova on my big boat and hand control on my little boat keeps me perfect all the time. I could not ever say that with a cable drive or a remote on a lanyard for that matter.
That makes sense. Bass guys are more often poking in an and out of smaller areas, docks, weed openings, etc. I can see a cable drive excelling in that scenario.
The Ultrex is electric cable driven and light years ahead of the Terrova I ran for responsiveness and ease of use. No difference in balance at all as the steering is electric power steering and FAST using a well designed low profile foot pedal. I have used both extensively and would not give up my Ultrex now. |
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Posts: 2318
Location: Chisholm, MN | I'm also curious as to why spot lock is a game changer for a few of you? I like it, but it's not that big of a deal to me.
To each their own on the trolling motor style. Just think though, you take your wife/girlfriend out fishing with your cable steer and you are catching fish up front while she struggles to net your fish from the back. I see those videos on youtube and they're just embarrassing. Give your boat partner first crack at the fish. Drive the boat in such a way from the back, that you can put yourself in position to catch one too.
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Location: Contrarian Island | fishing and controlling the boat in 2-3 footers is also a heck of a lot easier from the back of the boat than playing Rodeo on the bow! |
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Posts: 108
| Hey larry. I bought a skyline muskie rod right when they came out and pretty sure it was after 1979 - looked really cool with the orange graphics. Regardless which year it came out I gree with you it was junk. My point about the rods is that, as far as casting, all the game changer baits mentioned before are, in my opinion, less important if you cant cast and figure eight effectively. Casting a double ten for 14 hours a day and figure eighting properly would be reallly tough with a 6 foot fiberglass rod. Dacron line and a Garcia 7000 would allow it but the 6 foot fiberglass rod would be brutal. Again just my opinion
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Posts: 20211
Location: oswego, il | Cable drive, feet aren't planted with a captain Morgan pose, pedal moves from the position you left it, it's on or off. All those things take my eye off what I am doing. My terrova doesn't I can make foot pedal corrections, several in fact during a cast. My hand control is even faster twist turn I can do it as fast as you can say it Every time a cable drive is turned on a cast is ruined the boat just moved after sitting can't get a figure eight or heaven forbid you are working a glider, just straight reel it back in. Immediate response is the only benefit I could see but as far as boat position no thanks. I ran one in a river a week ago and I know it was costing me fish. |
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Posts: 120
| I think the spot lock is a game changer because I can now fish shorelines by myself where the wind is piling in and if I get a fish I can spot lock and not get blown into hazards. Even with someone else in the boat it is nice to assist the other person with a fish in the net without worry about rocks or shore. I have also used it to get shallow snags out by myself in windy conditions.
I completely understand letting the person in the front get first crack at the prime casts and if this is the main reason for a Terrova I respect the opinion. A friend that guides does this for his clients but with an Ulterra. With my Ultrex I settle for at times letting the person in the back cast to prime structure before I do.
Yes there is more up and down in 2-3 footers in the bow BUT I would not consider controlling the boat in these conditions on an unfamiliar rocky shoreline from the back of the boat. Have had way to many shallow rocks show their face at the last second.
The ability to never have to look down at the trolling motor or pedal to know what direction I am going when applying power I think is very nice and efficient. Being able to multi task by turning controlled with power completely from feel is great.
I have no reason to care what everybody else is running for a trolling motor but I will never agree with someone who says they can control a boat as good with electric steer as I can with cable. Boat control is my number one priority with a trolling motor and if it isnt someone elses thats 100% ok with me. As long as we are all happy with what we have thats all that matters.
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Posts: 72
| I think jboutdoorguy nailed it. I never have to look at the trolling motor to know where I'm going. It is all based on foot feel of the pedal. The precision and responsiveness can also not be matched.
As for fishing from the bow, I have never had boat partners have a hard time putting fish in the boat. And there's rarely an issue netting. They just come to the casting deck to net when I catch one. I can see so much better from the bow too. My bow sits higher, so my view is always better from the front.
I had a friend that was used to power drive motors and didn't understand why I refused to use one. It took him a couple of days using a cable drive for him to admit he will never go back. The boat control with a cable is unmatched. |
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Posts: 120
| ToddM,
When you say the pedal moves from the position you left it this is not true with an Ultrex. It does stay where you left it. For other cable steers cable tension can adjust this but agreed not to a point of zero movement. What do you mean its on or off and what is taking your eye off what you are doing? When you talk of several foot pedal corrections in a cast do you mean with constant power on the prop? If yes Ultrex can do this also without looking down. I dont understand what you mean every time a cable drive is turned on a cast is ruined. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | a little off topic but...as far as putting fish in the boat, front to back for sure both guys can catch fish... but I took a look at the fish over 50" from front to back in my boat and it's 2 to 1 front to back.. while 45" fish are pretty even, when you look at 50s the numbers become blatantly clear the front has the advantage.... use whatever you like. I know my boat control doesn't suffer from using an Ulterra vs cable drive.
there are pros and cons to both. Use whatever suits you best.
Edited by BNelson 5/7/2020 1:36 PM
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Posts: 20211
Location: oswego, il | I don't know what model minnkota cable drive it is but it's newer. It has.a big foot pedal. I don't like being off balance in waves. I run my terrova in constant as slow as I can run it for the wind conditions. I rarely fish fast burning bucktails I am precision casting and making accurate casts with gliders and crankbaits. Going slow with any wind I am touching the foot pedal making corrections constantly to keep the boat positioned properly. That boat position also changes based on one, two or three people. I can easily make those changes but I do wish the terrova foot pedal was a quarter the size it is without the food pad. If the cable drive isn't on constant and you hit the momentary button to move the boat, which will be much faster than I am running the boat because you are reactive correcting vs my proactive correcting my cast that I made is not 20ft behind the boat can't work it correctly and can't figure eight. Wasted casts. I have yet to see a cable drive work for me. |
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Posts: 2318
Location: Chisholm, MN | Todd, I agree that the pedal could be shorter with larger left and right buttons. I think someone who uses the Terrova vs a cable drive gets very good at using it without looking down or at the head to see which way you’re going. It probably takes more practice than a cable drive but the balance issue with the tall pedal is a big red flag for me. Eventually it wears on my lower back as well. Being able to put the motor on constant and just controlling direction and speed is the most important part. To anyone comparing a cable drive to a power drive, there is a hug difference in performance between the power drive and terrova.
I also wish the speed dial was a little bigger and easier to move lightly with your foot. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Kirby, use the remote to control speed.. the dial sucks  |
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Posts: 2318
Location: Chisholm, MN | Yeah, I like hands free! |
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Posts: 630
Location: Duluth | Again this is why I absolutely love link. Just select your contour on the graph and set the speed! |
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Posts: 4269
Location: Ashland WI | CincySkeez - 5/7/2020 3:00 PM
Again this is why I absolutely love link. Just select your contour on the graph and set the speed!
Agreed. When the wind is a bit high, it doesn't work all that well though. |
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| Fishing pressure and zebra mussels is the biggest game changer I have seen personally. Still some nice fish out there but they are not as easy to catch as they once were. |
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Posts: 33
| Everyone seems to have forgotten the most obvious game changer.... the internet . All the information, videos, boards (like this) 10,000 lifetimes of experience at the tip of your fingers. |
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Posts: 524
| I just got a terrova last fall for my Ranger 692, so far it’s pretty sweet. I definitely like the spot lock option! I am really looking forward to linking it up to my new helix and auto charting some lakes to get the contour lines to follow with the terrova. Seems like a pretty sweet option! All that being said, I started long ago with an auto pilot minnkota and hated it because the electric pedals would crap out and the steering was terrible slow. I went to a cable steer motor guide and couldn’t have been happier. I still run a cable steer on my Ranger bass boat and love fishing that boat when I’m out alone...so, long story longer, I like them both! |
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| OldMuskyGuy - 5/7/2020 6:36 PM
Everyone seems to have forgotten the most obvious game changer.... the internet . All the information, videos, boards (like this) 10,000 lifetimes of experience at the tip of your fingers.
Great point. Back when I started in the 1970s, trying to learn about musky fishing unless you had a buddy who would coach you, it was a long, slow process. Folks did not share information easily, if you had a question about equipment you were at the mercy of the sales man. I am continually impressed with how folks on this board will help people with questions about equipment, techniques, etc. |
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Posts: 716
| Everything is better and that changes the game. Every single piece of gear on or in my boat is light years ahead in every way.
But to discount the DCG and Dawgs (because they were both firsts in their categories) is just silly. When those two lures came out the fish just came unglued on them like nothing else introduced in the past or since. |
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Posts: 757
| I had that skyline rod as well, 5'09", aluminum oxide guides, with an eva handle. That was top of the line back then. And your right about the time frame, '78-79. I had my abu 6500ca, the reel that was first with the palming side plate. And yea, wire leaders with 36lb. black cortland musky master dacron line. Game changers have to be the tackle used today. Kdawg |
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Posts: 108
| Yea kdog. To think the bucktail rod i use today is 10.5 feet, so nearly 5 foot longer. Proper figure eights are much easier now. Not to mention how much easier the baits are to cast. |
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Posts: 358
| I'd say nets have been a game changer, for fish and fisherman. |
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Posts: 719
| Catch and release instead of grilling them? |
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| Bondy - 5/10/2020 7:26 AM
Catch and release instead of grilling them?
Great point! When I started fishing them, there were discussions about the best way to dispatch them, billy club, heavy file applied right behind the head, etc. I would think that CPR with a replica has allowed a lot of trophy fish to keep swimming as well, because even as catch and release became common, folks might keep that big fish to have mounted. |
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Location: 31 | To me a game changer would be something that when first introduced changed or revolutionized the sport. Although a particular lure, rod, or trolling motor, etc. might have been a personal game changer, they have also pretty much evolved, along with the information the Internet provides. When the Internet was first introduced it was certainly not a game changer, it slowly evolved along with our boats, lures, and pretty much everything else we now take for granted as previously mentioned.
My all-time number one game changer has to be GPS, and although it has certainly evolved as well, when it was first introduced it almost immediately revolutionized almost everyone's approach to fishing (all fishing), especially big water. I would rather go back to a fiberglass rod and dacron line than give up GPS.
The only exception I can think of might be if you were (or are) only fishing smaller lakes that you are intimate with, then “maybe” the lure or trolling motor might take precedent, but IMHO that would be the exception rather than the rule. GPS allows the masses to safely navigate and explore big water, get on a open water spot, or stay on a nondescript edge with confidence. The before and after GPS was pronounced, it changed the game over 20 years ago, and remains something that probably over 95% of us use every day, or wouldn't consider going fishing without. |
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| I fear those lake associations will be a real game changer. |
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Posts: 36
Location: Honor, MI | How 'bout the color selector and the ph meter, eh? |
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Posts: 1356
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State side there where more resorts and less people had there own boats back in the 70's.
Powerful trolling motors and spot lock ect, GPS , side imageing.
I rent boats nowadays and good luck finding a bigger boat with a set of oars!
And yes the average boat are way bigger.
We have Long powerful rods made from graffite (my dad had a long glass surf rod) and braid not dacron and of course bigger baits, no plastics and outside of Cisco Kid no deep divers.
Had a net for fish up to 45 inches or so then it was a gaff and club.
Shooting fish was before my time.
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Location: Neapolitan Chain Of Lakes | Since the cowgirl and Dawg/Dussa etc. plastics aren't game changers then I have the ultimate most epic bait game changer in the entirety of history hands down......The Odyssey Pig....Thank you everyone you've been a wonderful crowd please remember to tip your waiters and waitresses. |
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Posts: 1241
Location: Walker, MN | greyghost - 5/10/2020 5:05 PM
How 'bout the color selector and the ph meter, eh?
Don't forget the HydroWave lol
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Posts: 304
Location: Lino Lakes, MN | Biggest game changers are all the electronics from GPS to Trolling motors. the GPS Mapping chips are huge. It took many years to learn parts of Vermilion and then the first chips came out and wow!
Size of baits has taken a pretty good jump- or the availability of larger baits is way better.
Another game changer- The Pig jerk bait - good old Reef Hawgs, Eddie baits and many others were all $10 when the Pig came out and it was priced at $15- Game changer now we are spending big money on baits.
Bob Turgeon said it correctly everything is better-
Another is the quality of the baits. Some of the older baits were not really durable or set up for good hook ups.
Muskie Mayhem bucktails and all of the others are building great bucktails with top notch hooks, big hooks and good ties. Look at the Lake X line of topwaters - they just hold up- paint is overated
Lots and lots of incredible Rods, Reels lines, leaders
Rods that are long, Have killer backbone and make fishing big baits all day a reality.
Have a good season we will see what the Covid 19 does to all of our muskie fishing plans.
Steve |
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Posts: 426
Location: Perryville, MO | I've appreciated this discussion. I didn't even consider CPR, which has been huge. As a youngster I remember the club and even hearing the pistol. Boats in general, electronics, the internet, and rods too. I even understand a bit more on the contribution of double 10's and large plastics. But not yet willing to get the pig (hahaha). |
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Posts: 1080
| As I was reading through all of this...it surprised me as to how many posts were made in this thread and how long it took, until one person nailed THEE single most effective game changer of them all: Bondy.
Before even seeing Bondy's post...I had been thinking all along, to myself, as I read through everyone's gear related posts, that everyone is missing out on thee single, biggest, most effective game changer that ever came to be for this sport.
THEE single, biggest, most effective game changer in the sport of Muskie fishing is and absolutely always will be: the C.P.R. program, education to anglers and yes...even stocking programs.
A guy can have all the money in the world, the guy can have the best of the best of boats, electronics, rods, reels and every single bait ever made....but...if the fish simply aren't there...well then....that guy with all the money in the world and all the best of the best of boat and gear won't catch any more fish than anyone else.
There's your game changer.
Edited by MACK 5/11/2020 2:19 PM
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Posts: 108
| 100% agree releasing fish. Biggest impact by far |
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Posts: 487
Location: Northern Illinois | ^^^^^^^ Yep! |
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Posts: 426
Location: Perryville, MO | Agreed. Bondy nailed it. And you're right, Mack, that it's strange many of us overlooked it. |
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| hawkeye9 - 5/11/2020 9:14 PM
Agreed. Bondy nailed it. And you're right, Mack, that it's strange many of us overlooked it.
I am guessing for most anglers under the age of say 45, catch and release has been the norm for them since they started. It is the old guys like me that should have said that from the beginning. First guy I knew that did all catch and release was back in the mid 1970s but he was very much the exception. And for the time, he caught a lot of muskies. |
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Location: 31 | North of 8 - 5/11/2020 9:41 PM hawkeye9 - 5/11/2020 9:14 PM Agreed. Bondy nailed it. And you're right, Mack, that it's strange many of us overlooked it. I am guessing for most anglers under the age of say 45, catch and release has been the norm for them since they started. It is the old guys like me that should have said that from the beginning. First guy I knew that did all catch and release was back in the mid 1970s but he was very much the exception. And for the time, he caught a lot of muskies. Although I understand the C&R premise, if we are going down that road I would think that stocking would supersede C&R because there would be some slim pickings in Minnesota, Green Bay, or any number of other premier muskie waters without it... not much to release.
After rereading the original post though, my impression is meaning something more along the lines of what invention, equipment, or method had the largest impact on the sport.
Edited by Jerry Newman 5/12/2020 9:32 AM
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Posts: 1080
| True Jerry. I understand a lot of people would immediately take the initial question, in the initial thread, by the original poster, to be about: gear. But he didn't state it specifically to be about gear.
Yes...advancements and improvements in boats, gear, electronics and baits, could certainly help a person to put more fish in the boat. But the fact remains, these fish can still be caught, today, using all of the old gear of yesteryear as well. As effectively? Well...I'm sure that's all a matter of opinion.
The fact remains, these are simple fish with brains the size of a pea, they need to feed and will feed when they're good and ready and can be downright moody as all heck most of the other time. And any bait, that's wet, and is in the water and moving: is food.
Doesn't matter if it's an old-school spoon from way back in the days, to the latest and greatest, high-dollar one-off basement made baits of today to a small panfish jig...to a simple worm on a hook under a slip-bobber...to a bass fisherman's Texas rigged rubber worm...and everything in between.
It's been proven, over and over and over and over again, countless times throughout the years that anglers, fishing for other species, with gear and tackle meant for the species they're focusing on, ends up incidentally catching some nice muskies. Simply put: right time...right place...and offering the bait of interest to that fish, at that time.
There will no doubt continue to be further advancements in boats, electronics, gear and baits as the years move along. But, when it comes to baits: they're still an object with a hook on them that's moving through the water. That concept remains the same.
But if the fish are no longer within the those bodies of water...if a guy is using old-school gear and baits in one boat and the guy next to him in the other boat has the latest and greatest gear of them all....the results will be the same. The field is completely leveled at that point.
I haven't been fishing for these fish for very long. I've only been fishing for these fish since 1982. But I have seen the huge transitions once the school of thought changed from catch & kill to catch & release. Things became a LOT easier to not only catch more fish, but bigger fish, due to catch & release.
Some bodies of water sustain themselves with natural reproduction. But only to a certain extent. Will it be a large population of fish to sustain a fishery with a catchable population? That's up for debate. Some of those bodies of water that do have natural reproduction are still improved upon with the additional efforts of time, money and labor with the stocking of additional fish. Some lakes have zero natural reproduction and 100% rely solely on stocking efforts.
Old gear...new gear....doesn't matter. Gotta have the fish in the bodies of water first and foremost. Get a bait in the water...move it around. Eventually it will get bit. Yes...some baits profiles and vibrations and water displacement do attract more fish (at times) than others. There's no doubting that either. As that has indeed been proven. But I know of several muskie fishermen that are good anglers that have never caught a single fish on any large, double bladed bucktail nor a large rubber bait such as a bulldawg or a medussa. Strange how things like that work so well for some, but don't work at all, for others. Have those anglers that don't seem to catch any muskies on those baits mentioned, been using those bucktails/dawgs/'dussa's in the wrong place at the wrong time, in the wrong ways? I dunno? It's not terribly difficult to work any of those baits. All of those baits...for the most part...are nearly..."fool proof." Cast 'em out...reel 'em in. Sure...there's variances in ways to work them, different speeds, rips, pauses, etc and the such. We get that.
And yes...paying attention to Solunar tables can help to increase the odds for an angler. But each angler should always know, that weather is the trump card (no presidential pun intended).
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Location: 31 | MACK - 5/12/2020 11:04 AM True Jerry. I understand a lot of people would immediately take the initial question, in the initial thread, by the original poster, to be about: gear. But he didn't state it specifically to be about gear. I guess I tend to disagree because the original post specifically references lures in the opening sentence;
“The "Let down bait" thread has me wondering what real game changers have come along over the years with regard to muskie fishing. I shared my opinion that no lure has come along as a true "game changer." Some will argue that double 10's or large plastics did in fact "change the game." I don't think so, but maybe someone can convince me otherwise.”
Then he specifically recommends debating equipment;
“I'll suggest finders, gps, and even trolling motors (in particular "spot lock"). I don't have power poles, but I can imagine some would say shallow water anchors for sure. 9'+ rods instead of broom handles maybe too? Better "reels" (someone will surely say the Tranx)”?
Given the context as outlined above in the original post, the parameters were established IMHO. With that said; I absolutely agree that C&R has heavily influenced the sport, it basically IS the sport. However, it was still a pretty viable sport before C&R took hold and it evolved into what is today. However, where would the sport of muskie fishing be without stocking?
I would be willing to concede that they're probably close enough to even as changing the game though, if they are to be included. |
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Posts: 1080
| Fair enough.
But this one question, in his initial post is what caught my interest and is obviously what got me to thinking, the way I thought about it:
"What has really changed the game for you? "
Reason being. I started fishing for Northern Pike and Muskie in the state of Michigan back in the early 80s. The population of Muskies in the specific water that I started on, was not a large population in that water, at that time. C & R...and stocking...started to change that. I live and work in the state of Indiana. None of our Indiana lakes have muskies as a native species and none of our bodies of water would have muskies in them, if it weren't for the stocking efforts.
So..for me...that was the game changer for me. Personally.
I still have many baits in my tackle boxes from way back when and those baits still produce some nice fish to this very day. As well, in addition to the newer baits of today.
I personally can't find any one piece of specific equipment, gear, boat, nor bait, that has greatly increased my catch rates moreso than any other.
But...if you were to hold me to the fire and make me pick one piece of gear/equipment that I have benefited the most from that would be: GPS and map chips. Hands down.
But man-o-man do I miss those glory days of being a young kid in a 14' aluminum fishing boat with either nothing more than a pair of oars, or maybe that of an electric trolling motor, to then maybe have graduated up to an 8hp outboard...out working the drop offs and the weedlines...searching for those drop off and weedlines via old-school methods by either sight fishing or by way of dropping a weight over the side of the boat attached to a string to mark depths and seeking out fish that way....before we ever had the luxury of any kind of "depth/fish finder" in our possession.
Sometimes, I miss those simple days. Sometimes...I think we get caught up in all of the hype of the makes, models, brands, colors of gear and baits and boats and electronics and loose sight of the "less is more" concept.
Heck. Anymore these days, I'd just be happy to get out on the water, in the boat, just to simply be out there. If a fish were to be caught, that'd just be an added bonus. My life has refocused my attention towards my family and my kids. I've taken a bit of a hiatus from the sport of fishing for the past 10 years or so. I know the next four to five years will fly by in a blink of an eye and my kids will be grown and out of the house. And that is when I hope to get back into my same old boat, using the same old rods, reels and baits and gear...and get out there...and simply go enjoy the act of fishing and probably catch some nice fish too. |
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Posts: 426
Location: Perryville, MO | You raise a fair point, Jerry. I was, in fact, really only considering gear as "game changers." I hadn't even considered CPR or stocking or information. To your point, then, the internet wouldn't really apply either.
As to stocking, perhaps it is a 50/50 thing with CPR , but I should have I thought about that too after Bondy mentioned catch and release. I live in the southern range, and I fish on a lake (Kinkaid) that depends fully on stocking with no natural reproduction. So for whatever it's worth: Jerry and Bondy both win! (hahaha) |
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Game Changers