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Location: oswego, il | Let's get winternet started shall we?  I am a long time member and aboard member of my club for almost as long. We raise money for stocking youth events, dnr needs and every club in fibland belongs and contributes to the IMA. All good stuff if you ask me.
I have been told the average age of a member is around 55. I see this on the club meeting level too and on our board. Some younger, many older. An observation that I see when I go to the Muskie show is that an overwhelming majority of the patrons including those operating the booths are 25-45 years old. Just wondering why this group or few of them are involved. The clubs would certainly benefit from them. Would love to hear from the 25-45 crowd on this.
Edited by ToddM 1/25/2020 8:05 AM
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Posts: 1670
| Would love to hear from the 25-45 crowd on this.
Well that leaves me out. lol | |
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Location: Vilas | Ive noticed the same thing. I think some of them are too busy editing their footage for the you tube channel they are trying to get going. Where they can proudly hold up a 33"er for the camera....or spend 8 minutes getting the boat positioned correctly for the perfect camera angle before settting the hook with live bait......
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maybe I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, just had to vent a little | |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | I hate gopros too, but to be fair, they are just trying to make a show like their original idols did on TV. Nothing wrong with it. I don’t partake in my own chapter because they don’t take a stance on import issues like stocking. Getting together and having an outing and calling it a club does not interest me. I used to help out a little when I was younger but a 21 year old joining a group of 60 year olds just didn’t feel right. I’m 33 now.
I’d gladly give my money to a group that will stock more fish into specific lakes or at least fight for stocking. Some of the members of this chapter are DNR employees that manage the muskies around here. I don’t agree with their management strategy and they are too wise to listen to anyone like me. | |
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Location: Walker, MN | Some are developing careers, relationships and having kids. Not all make gopro vids.
Yes, I know that free time is at a premium for every age group. It's an interesting question.
Edited by Masqui-ninja 1/25/2020 9:43 AM
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Location: Perryville, MO | Same 24 hour day as there has always been. We have more "free time" than ever. We just fill it up with stuff. The big answer I think is indvidualism (i.e, "death of the bowling league" sorta thing).
For me, I work weekends and that's of course when club activities are held. I should still send them my membership fee though because you are right about them supporting the right things (stocking, assisting state biologists, lake cleanup, etc.).
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Location: Walker, MN | The death of teams, leagues and clubs could be due to the majority of households now having both parents working full-time jobs. With kids, there's not much "free time" at all...anyone I talk to in this age group.
I don't claim to know, just throwing ideas out there. I donate, but donating time is hard to do. | |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Socity today wants instant gratification..( younger and older folks)
Work ethic ? Selfishness ? Inability to want to socialize or be a part of a Club ? Video games seem more important to younger people than taking a few hrs. a month to be involved in a fishing club ? Priorities ?
A lot of different reasons,... But,.... No reason not to financially support Muskies Inc. and the Good that they do for all who enjoys fishing. | |
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Location: Ashland WI | I’m 38. I don’t even know if there is a muskies inc club for my area. If there was and they supported sticking in the lakes in my area, I would donate some. | |
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| I was way into the club thing when I started out. Dragged my (now) wife and a couple buddies into the deal. I've kept my membership going because our club does a lot with stocking, kids outings,etc. But as life would have it, between both of us working weird hours and having moved farther away from the meeting location, getting to meetings just isn't an option anymore.
My take, for what it's worth as an old guy? Participation in that sort of thing just sort of takes a back seat when you have a house to pay for, married, kids, etc.
The reason membership leans towards the older side is that's who has the time and the money. House is paid for, kids out of the house, time to fish. Seen a lot of guys my age drop back in to the whole deal later in life once the kids are gone. And yeah, what guy in his 20's or even 30's wants to go hang around with a bunch of guys who are the same age as their parents after finally getting out on their own and away from their parents? | |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Kirby Budrow - 1/25/2020 9:55 AM
I hate gopros too, but to be fair, they are just trying to make a show like their original idols did on TV. Nothing wrong with it. I don’t partake in my own chapter because they don’t take a stance on import issues like stocking. Getting together and having an outing and calling it a club does not interest me. I used to help out a little when I was younger but a 21 year old joining a group of 60 year olds just didn’t feel right. I’m 33 now.
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I love my go pro but nobody watches the footage but me. At 77 going into this coming season I'm a lot closer to the last chapter than the first so when I can't get in and out of a boat or it is dangerous for me to fish alone I will have my videos to watch even if the memories start to fog. As far as You Tube I have not much interest in watching other people wind string.
I was a active member of Muskies Canada since the early 90's but for me the club got almost too big. Too many cliques too much politics and too many peeing matches. In the 80's muskie nuts were a small group now everyone fishes muskies everyone is a guide and lots are selling pretty lures that have never caught a fish. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | We are working with MI including managing the Facebook page. The MI Organization is moving forward with a good crew at the communications helm these days looking to join us in the 21st century on the digital front, and recruitment of new members will be stepping up. I'm very optimistic. | |
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| Many people need to get "something" out of a club for "themselves" I think. Hence they might not have time to attend or participate in club events. For me personally (and I'm out of the age range you asked about) I join a club every year. Give them my membership fee. Never attend a meeting or fish a event. I don't even Muskie fish every year. But, I'd rather give them some money and skip a case of beer hoping they do something for the sport. Maybe my piddly donation helps buy a fingerling or two, helps fight bad legislation in St. Paul. As long as I never find out it goes into somebodies pocket I'm fine with how they spend it.
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Location: Vilas | I went to a few meetings, and I could see the cliques that are formed, as mentioned, and is the reason I dont show up at the local meetings anymore....In each newsletter "please send in your pix" ... so I had a good year in 2017. I had 8 fish over 25lbs and 4 of those over 30lbs...one even being a 48 3/4" tiger ...sent pix of them in to my local chapter.... guess how many made the newsletter?? ZERO.... but there was the same 3-4 guys with their 37"-40".....
Edited by JGlass 1/25/2020 1:26 PM
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| For many years I was a member of an international service club and it was difficult to find members in that age group. Starting a career, starting a family, that was their priority. We found ways to get them involved on occasion as volunteers for special events and then some of those joined when they had more time. When I was president of the local club, I reminded some of the older, retired members that the younger folks did not have as much time to do volunteer work as they did. They should have known that but they needed a periodic reminder. | |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | I got this in my e-mail; shame to lose one. m
After much debate and a lengthy process Chapter 47 is no longer affiliated with Muskies Inc.
I appreciate everything each chapter continues to do for muskies throughout the nation and if there’s ever support needed let us know and we will be happy to help in any way we can.
Please remove me from future internal communications.
Thanks
Sincerely,
Nick Day
Michigan Muskie Alliance
Edited by mikie 1/25/2020 3:26 PM
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| Kind of ironic too see this thread, as I just returned this afternoon from an MMPA meeting where the topic was touched on and had some more discussion after the meeting. One of the things our MI chapter has done, is to pair with WAM on a few outings, the last couple years. We have picked up few of them as new members, and hope to continue, in hopes of diversifying our membership. While I am exactly the average age Todd mentions, it seems I am slightly older than the average age at our meetings, which is a good thing. We are still trying to get younger, however. I pay an annual dues to a few different outdoor advocacy groups (PF, DU, etc.), that I don't participate in, but simply want to support, and I'm sure we have a number of our members that are doing the same with MI. I think that there are two types of members, supporters and participants. Both are valued. | |
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Location: oswego, il | I don't know that the 25-45 year olds do not have the time for Muskies inc. They are the majority on the water too. They have the time to fish, go to musky shows. If nothing else I hope they join a club to make positive change when they get to 55.
As far as the clique thing, that's a personal thing. Clubs are what you make of them, not of you. I joined in my early 40's and made friends right away because I seen the club as something I could give to and not take from. | |
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Posts: 772
Location: Delavan, WI | I am 45 and actually a member of Todd's chapter, haven't made a meeting in probably 8 years main reason is I moved 2 hrs from meeting place. I do go to fundraiser banquet once a year and support MUSKIES inc. and the club through my membership dues and donations. I originally joined in the mid 90's I was in my early 20's then and have stayed with the same chapter all along, I have a few close friends that are members, and I also used to fish most of the chapter tournaments, but haven't in 3-4 years but do plan to make it to this years. If I lived closer, I probably would be more involved w club, but It's hard to work full time, be married, and commit to monthly club activities considering the distance.
Edited by muskymartin67 1/25/2020 7:28 PM
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Location: Northern Illinois | EA describes my situation. There was no time when I was working; with the long hours and other commitments I just couldn’t justify giving club membership the priority that I can now that I’m retired. It gives me satisfaction contributing now in any small way I can to support a cause I believe in. | |
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Location: On my favorite lake! | I am in this age group and have been in two Chapters. The one I was in while in college was really good but doesn’t exist any longer and is in another state. The one I joined after college had the same guys doing everything and there really wasn’t any getting involved, it also seemed to lose many members because of this. I would go for speakers but my job changed and usually can’t make meetings. I like Muskies INC as an organization, just don’t have time for it. Right now I am just concentrating on fishing and teaching a 7 yr old ,how to catch fish. Sorry no youtube videos. | |
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Posts: 117
Location: Roscoe IL | im 36, joined our local chapter in 2019, havent made it to any meetings as of yet, mostly because of time constraints or my wife having to work on meeting nights. | |
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| I've been a member of M.I. since 1981 so i've seen many ups and downs over the years.lately in our chapter were starting to see some 20 and 30 year old getting involved with the chapter. when i ask some of our younger members who drop out what there reasoning was i usually got work shifts, wrong night for meetings and politics those were the 3 main items. just my 2 cents | |
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Posts: 261
| Howdy,
I've been a MI member since the 90's but only went to two meetings in my life. Even then it was for a chapter that was starting in my area and then I moved for work.
I've always joined in an unafiliated status because I believe deeply in the sport and in continuing the work that MI has done to expand and protect the resource.
That said, I believe the old quote "we have met the enemy, and he is us" applies to this situation. Sadly, many of the muskie fisherman I have met over the last 30 years are jerks. They carry themselves with an arrogance that turns people off (even to other muskie fisherman).
Add in all the secrecy, the condescending attitudes towards other fisherman, lectures about proper holds and releases, not to mention the constant digs over a big fish that's "not as big as the person stays it is" and it all becomes fatiguing. All of the stereotypical millennial/snowflake comments that get repeated about younger fisherman only makes it worse. It's no wonder they tune us out and move on with their life.
For me, I'm still happy to donate and be a MI member, but I don't have the time or desire to wade through the nonsense to find the benefits to being active in a club.
Take care,
Ruddiger | |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | I've been a member of West Virginia's MI Chapter 9 for over 15 years. I joined when I was 50 or so, and I met some of the most wonderful people in the world at the annual meetings and outings. Jim Moore, Bill and Sharon Crane, Lloyd and Erma Jones, Jack Cobb (he gave my grand daughter her first muskie lure)...some of the finest fishers and baiters in the sport IMHO.
I haven' had the opportunity to meet any of them with "an arrogance that turns people off " Perhaps that is my good fortune. . Our chapter does one annual meeting in late winter, then has fishing events throughout the local season.
I make good use of the Lunge Log and magazine. I'm not much of a note taker and if I need to see what fish I got on what bait ten years ago, well, the memory banks don't work like that anymore, so it's back to the Log. The research work MI is doing now on hot water catch mortality will be a benchmark for many folks - both in the sport and regulatory branches.
I'm totally impressed with our national leadership team, we have a fantastic president for the organization who has really brought things around. I'm glad to be a small part of such a fine organization. m
Edited by mikie 1/26/2020 9:07 AM
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Location: Land of the Musky | Maybe more interaction with the younger crowd. Tackle Industries is giving away a lot of rods and lures to MI in 2019/2020 for young kids with the best photos. That is for 16 and under I think but things like this definitely increase the interaction. Maybe ask other companies to make up the "HOT" baits in a truly cook custom color and only MI members can buy them and then at a discount vs $100+ at a musky show. Or sell them at the musky shows for $100+ and that includes 1yr membership? Just thinking...
Edited by Tackle Industries 1/26/2020 8:52 AM
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Location: Roscoe IL | my post last night was pretty short, but as a new musky fishermen, i think the sport is a bit intimidating in itself. while i havent met any overtly rude people muskie fishing, im sure i have ticked a few vets off on the water i fished, by simply not "knowing" There is a lot to learn, and just about everyone has a shorter time than they'd like to learn it, especially the younger guys who most of the time cant go fish a weekday. I think there is a naturally fine line, of helping people and being protective of the good spots. The best thing I did was book a trip with Jeff Hanson, even if you have crap weather and tough condtions paying for the knowlege of a guide when your starting is priceless. I think perhaps if MI chapters had a retired guy who was a real competant fishermen who was willing to take new/young members out and show them the ropes and make it easier, it would make younger members much more active. Just my worthless .02
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Location: Duluth | I'm 29 and VP of my local chapter. I am VP because the chapter was looking for younger blood considering the average age was way above 50.
Think they main thing keeping people from getting more involved is the financial strain. Boats aren't cheap, muskie gear isn't cheap and quite frankly wages haven't kept up with the costs of living let alone grown enough to let young folks make an investment like a boat.
Most of the people my age that do musky fish (myself included) are lucky enough to not be carrying around student loan debt, and don't have a family. Just my 2 cents | |
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Posts: 196
| Tackle Industries - 1/26/2020 8:51 AM
Maybe more interaction with the younger crowd. Tackle Industries is giving away a lot of rods and lures to MI in 2019/2020 for young kids with the best photos. That is for 16 and under I think but things like this definitely increase the interaction. Maybe ask other companies to make up the "HOT" baits in a truly cook custom color and only MI members can buy them and then at a discount vs $100+ at a musky show. Or sell them at the musky shows for $100+ and that includes 1yr membership? Just thinking...
James, good for you on donating the baits to kids! The world needs more businesses like you! Not to take away from your good deed, one suggestion and to make an even playing field for all kids maybe do a random draw of the photos rather than turning it into a popularity contest? | |
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Location: Roscoe IL | Interesting topic. MI is a class act, most members are eager to help and share what they know. Lot's to learn from some of these older guy's... Some of their stories are amazing and it was the best part for me. Learned more from MI members than anyone.
I was a member for years. Had fun and made life long friends, but as mentioned family and career come first to fishing and clubs. I know it did for others as well so the once a month meeting and every weekend outing stopped. I had to pull back or I was going to wind up broke and living in a cat pee carpet studio apartment with a stacked washer & dryer after her lawyers were though with my @ss if I kept it up..
This hobby like many can simply consume you if you let it. It sure took me by the skinny hairs in my 30's and 40's. I go when we can now and enjoy the planning as much as the trip. Try to anyway.
Now it's not just muskies like it was for me, but we will target Bass, Walleye or gills. I'll consider joining again once the youngest is though high school. I do miss the stories the old timers would tell.. | |
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Location: SW Ohio | I’m a member but way above the age asked by the OP. We have no chapter close to me so I miss all the meetings and most of the outings. They mostly fish lakes on the other side of the state and only one tourney on my local lake (45 mins away). It seems like it’s an active chapter and I have no complaints.
As for on the water interaction, I’ve had more issues with long time musky fishermen than the young ones. God help you if you are between them and the water they want to fish even if you were there hours sooner. I think the younger guys are more respectful at this time than those who feel they’ve “earned” the right to fish anywhere and anytime they want. Most of the younger ones are full of questions, and while I’m not full of answers I will offer them help with the caveat that I don’t know much, and sometimes nothing, about musky fishing.
Edited by OH Musky 1/27/2020 5:50 PM
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Location: WV | good question, I've heard a lot of talk about it. but never known a real good answer I know the older guys care and would do anything for younger members in my chapter. I found that out first hand years ago. Muskie inc means a lot to me and my family. I could never figure out why boys I fished with a lot would never join. Always promoting it, I finally gave up and signed them up myself. best thing I know is take em fishing, let em bust a easy one if you got it, and buy em a membership. seems like it would work.
when I was young it was bass/musky every day. fishing something every weekend. on the club bass side we would random draw co anglers. so you could come with your dad but fish with who knows who. I always thought that would be good on the local musky club fishing, mix it up, learn from more people and gather more contacts and friendships. | |
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Location: Madison, WI | Ruddiger - 1/26/2020 7:29 AM
Howdy,
I've been a MI member since the 90's but only went to two meetings in my life. Even then it was for a chapter that was starting in my area and then I moved for work.
I've always joined in an unafiliated status because I believe deeply in the sport and in continuing the work that MI has done to expand and protect the resource.
That said, I believe the old quote "we have met the enemy, and he is us" applies to this situation. Sadly, many of the muskie fisherman I have met over the last 30 years are jerks. They carry themselves with an arrogance that turns people off (even to other muskie fisherman).
Add in all the secrecy, the condescending attitudes towards other fisherman, lectures about proper holds and releases, not to mention the constant digs over a big fish that's "not as big as the person stays it is" and it all becomes fatiguing. All of the stereotypical millennial/snowflake comments that get repeated about younger fisherman only makes it worse. It's no wonder they tune us out and move on with their life.
For me, I'm still happy to donate and be a MI member, but I don't have the time or desire to wade through the nonsense to find the benefits to being active in a club.
Take care,
Ruddiger
This is exactly what turned me off to MI when I was 19-20. I inquired about joining a weekly league and the local chapter, and basically I was scoffed at and even laughed at about the league. Well I’m 33 now and have never considered joining again. Left a very sour taste with me. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | danmuskyman - 1/27/2020 8:34 PM
Ruddiger - 1/26/2020 7:29 AM
Howdy,
I've been a MI member since the 90's but only went to two meetings in my life. Even then it was for a chapter that was starting in my area and then I moved for work.
I've always joined in an unafiliated status because I believe deeply in the sport and in continuing the work that MI has done to expand and protect the resource.
That said, I believe the old quote "we have met the enemy, and he is us" applies to this situation. Sadly, many of the muskie fisherman I have met over the last 30 years are jerks. They carry themselves with an arrogance that turns people off (even to other muskie fisherman).
Add in all the secrecy, the condescending attitudes towards other fisherman, lectures about proper holds and releases, not to mention the constant digs over a big fish that's "not as big as the person stays it is" and it all becomes fatiguing. All of the stereotypical millennial/snowflake comments that get repeated about younger fisherman only makes it worse. It's no wonder they tune us out and move on with their life.
For me, I'm still happy to donate and be a MI member, but I don't have the time or desire to wade through the nonsense to find the benefits to being active in a club.
Take care,
Ruddiger
This is exactly what turned me off to MI when I was 19-20. I inquired about joining a weekly league and the local chapter, and basically I was scoffed at and even laughed at about the league. Well I’m 33 now and have never considered joining again. Left a very sour taste with me.
Much has changed in the last decade, might be worth another try. MI really does do a lot for muskie fishing and conservation, and it's worth supporting. I work with the Cap City chapter at the annual MI School in March, and that's a class organization all the way. I speak occasionally at MI clubs, and the general feel has transformed quite a bit in the last 10 plus years. Quite a bit indeed. | |
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| Muskies Inc. is a club. And as such, a club is what you make of it.
I've been a member now for 11 or 12 years. As such I've seen the club change for the better with different folks being President of the club. New ideas, new ways of doing things....etc. Our club here in Milwaukee was blessed to have two outstanding individuals as the past Presidents...and they did so much for our club. Stocking, organization, communication, commradorie (if that is a word)....etc.
We shall see how the new President is now.....tough shoes to fill.
I've seen our culture as a club change over the years for the better. We have a bunch of "core" guys who love to fish, don't get me wrong, but they love bringing in new guys to the chapter and helping them catch fish.
At our last meeting, a past President welcomed in a new Chapter member in front of the group...it was a great moment.
I get some of the "angst" over Muskies Inc., but it is what you will make of it. And each local chapter will have it's own kind of "flavor". | |
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Location: oswego, il | I was hoping to find out why the younger crowd I see at the shows isn't involved and how to get them involved to get M.I. to that next level. I think once it gets there it can keep bringing in that age group. I don't think its money, time kids, turned off by some members, those are exceptions. I see this group as a majority on the water and at the shows. I think getting them involved can only benefit and better focus on youth, fisheries and research the founding blocks of the organization. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I honestly think it could be as simple as properly asking them to join. The MI Facebook page is WAY up over the last couple years at 34867 followers, so there's obvious interest.
Main issue is we need to reach out to them where they are, and that's new to most MI Chapters. Last Spring I addressed a few chapters in the North at the Wisconsin Musky Expo, and talked about how to utilize the media that will reach young anglers and the ladies. I'm not sure if what I presented was taken seriously, but I can report a cursory look through some Chapter social channels shows the issues remain. | |
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| Pay for an endorsement by marshmallow or ninja . You'll get all kinds of younger people to join | |
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| 32- cost, why give up one dollar when it doesn't benefit me... I have no options within 100 miles is my real answer. But I have made it to fergus falls over the pelican lake muskie issue. Honestly I think many people my age are to busy chasing fish/tail to attend meetings/functions. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Fishysam - 1/28/2020 1:25 PM
32- cost, why give up one dollar when it doesn't benefit me... I have no options within 100 miles is my real answer. But I have made it to fergus falls over the pelican lake muskie issue. Honestly I think many people my age are to busy chasing fish/tail to attend meetings/functions.
MI benefits you and every other muskie angler out there in one way or another by promoting muskie stocking, conservation, CPR, education, symposiums, and more. My early involvement with MI beginning back in the early 80's is what brought me to get MuskieFIRST online nearly 20 years ago.
'Chasing tail'? Not a good excuse.....:) | |
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Location: Neapolitan Chain Of Lakes | I know what many of the 25-45 crowd think first hand. I am always asking and looking to fish with others. Even had an ad online looking for people to fish with as in my opinion it's good to learn at any age (What to do or not to do). Many people responded to me and had one guy said he was 33 and asked me my musky bio! LOL, my musky bio? I understand if you're looking for a tournament partner you need to find out whether the guy can fish or not but bio? C'mon man! When I told him I was closer to 50 he immediately sighed with disappointment and went on to let me know through conversation his assumptions that the older age range was decrepit and unable to fish hard. Of course I told him if I choose to I cast all day and into the night if need be but that didn't seem to register with him. He went on to boast about his league fishing, the legendary bait shop he worked at, and how he tournament fished but didn't want an old partner all while never even fishing with me just an assumption. He was not alone and this was not uncommon with many younger guys I fished with and talked to. Granted there were a few of course that didn't act that way but the vast majority just think (Of course most wouldn't say it out loud) that older guys are used up, can't fish hard, and they don't see the value and musky intelligence they could learn from a more experienced angler. The guys that don't have that mindset usually don't have a buddy their age to go musky fishing with and are ok with fishing with almost anyone but are busy with families and other life things and feel lucky just to go fish once or twice a month let alone go to a meeting after dinner or a couple club outings a year going to a far away place that costs too much for them. With that being said most club cliques just aren't for everyone including me. I can and want to fish everyday (March-December)around my local area in northern Illinois/southern Wisconsin so if anyone wants a boat partner when they feel like it pm me if you can deal with an old decrepit experienced musky nut! (That can fish all day or night even tho I'm sooo old!) | |
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Location: Hayward, WI | Or local club is mainly 60+. I will take my son, 13, to what meetings we can manage to make, normally only 2-3 a year. My son loves it, he is made to feel very welcome and everyone is friendly and talks to him. I think he enjoys the meetings more than I do. The "old guys" will often give him the small door prizes that they win. | |
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| Fishysam - 1/28/2020 1:25 PM
32- cost, why give up one dollar when it doesn't benefit me...
Maybe because it is a good cause. Plus it's just good to do something that doesn't just benefit you. You, no doubt, have benefitted from things done by Muskies Inc. Without Muskies Inc., CPR probably wouldn't be as pervasive as it is, and there would be way fewer big fish. Probably fewer lakes with muskies. There's a good chance you have caught a fish that was stocked by Muskies Inc. or with Muskies Inc. money. $35 bucks a year to support an activity you enjoy, even if you never go to a meeting, aint much. I don't get out pheasant hunting much, and haven't hunted waterfowl in several years, but I send a small membership check to Pheasants Forever and Ducks unlimited, every year. Never been to any meetings or banquets. Just want to support their efforts. Also, just one more name to add to a member list. We had an idiot legislator here, that a few years ago, used the number of Muskies Inc. members in the state, to indicate that not very many people fished for muskies, as if every person that fished for them, was in the club. | |
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Location: oswego, il | Muskies Inc benefits everyone in some way. We have two more Muskie lakes near Chicago, Geneva and Long because Muskies inc. clubs pursued it. Just an example. We buy stuff for the DNR much of it used for all species. You catch a stocked musky, good chance Muskies inc had an influence in getting that fish in there. That can be said for every Musky in the state of Illinois.
Edited by ToddM 1/28/2020 6:41 PM
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Location: SE, WI. | Todd; the musky community is a rare breed. Hard work, dedication and patience is needed in this sport. It’s a tough ladder to climb sometimes, and it seems like peer pressures of today’s world is just too much for the younger generation. The resources, Time, and all the other factors listed above like the clique groups, jerks, personalities, etc all play in. You need to look past all this bunk, be a little tough skinned, and be a part of MI because, It’s A GOOD CAUSE! Been a member for 37 years! I think Steve W is right. We need to go out and recruit new musky inc. members. It’s part of Sales, ask for the Sale!!! Get people interested! Back in the early 80’s, when I was recruited, we had a contest in our Milwaukee chapter MI. club, who could sign up the most members in a year. We were given membership brochures with our name as sponsors. An award was given to the individual that signed up most members. When I joined, we were about 30 members strong, early 80’s. JD
Edited by jdsplasher 1/28/2020 7:20 PM
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| Young guy here. I fish a few times a year a couple hours from home. I may join in the future but no way I'm making any meetings any time soon. | |
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Location: Roscoe IL | This topic got me curious to know how many member there are compared to other fishing/Outdoor clubs and what’s different, outside of the obvious.
MI -Approx. 6000 Members
B.A.S.S - Over 20,000
Trout Unlimited - Over 300,000
Ducks Unlimited - Over 700,000
Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes - Just Fred & Barney remain.
Perhaps taking a page out of the other clubs approach to adding membership could be useful to grow?
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Location: Neapolitan Chain Of Lakes | Last dark had come and gone and the night dew had adhered itself to the boat seats. So my late 20 something buddy and I are setting up to troll to our next spot and he says "Can you drive I have some POF ing to do?" (For context please search the urban dictionary for definition of "Plenty of Fish" and "Netflix and chill") I obliged as his phone lit up the pitch black night sky and attracted the largest bugs in the state that blanketed us and the whirring outboard and he asked me where towns like Mukwonago were and if New Berlin was on the good side of the wall. Then he would show me a pic and a profile of someone from that town and ask "Do you think this person would like to Musky fish and chill?" And then scroll thru some more pics and profiles and repeat the questions. My point is that many of the younger guys seriously have different priorities and even tho MI benefits everyone immensely they may not be educated enough about MI or just have a different stage of stocking in mind quite often. I know it's not a good excuse but it happens. I think one thing like many guys above have said is that education through us and social media is a great way forward. That being said, I have seen firsthand at the shows walking around with my young buddies when someone puts the big Muskies Inc. patch on the back bottom portion of a hot pink jacket just above the part of pants that reads "Juicy" all of a sudden guys wanna know all about Muskies Inc. and how they can join "That" chapter. Just sayin' | |
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| Which chapter is that BTW? | |
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Location: Neapolitan Chain Of Lakes | Pretty sure it was the Twin Peaks chapter | |
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| The MI Facebook page is WAY up over the last couple years at 34867 followers, so there's obvious interest...Main issue is we need to reach out to them where they are, and that's new to most MI Chapters...I can report a cursory look through some Chapter social channels shows the issues remain.
I'm not sure that large numbers (typically young-ish) social media followers who are there to access muskie porn is the same as interest in participating IRL; that same line of thought failed MI with TV advertising. It's not solely a matter of reach or awareness - offering engaging activities IRL goes a lot further than page or picture likes. If you've got something appealing to younger people and families, then you can use your online reach to let people know about it. Hold events worth attending, hold events that make the club worth joining. If you don't offer interesting activities, no amount of reach or proper invitiations will matter.
For example, my club's typical monthly meeting involves a room full of older white guys sitting around drinking beer and listening to a slightly less old white guy talk about his figure 8 technique. Boring, and even the somewhat older white guys like me spend more time staring at their phones than at the speaker. But when my same club holds on-the-water activities focused on youth and families? It's a park full of parents and kids who don't all look exactly the same having a good time right alongside the core older members. Why would any of those younger folks join a club that only does the passive club speaker meeting thing? If you build it, they will come...
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Location: Duluth | Guys it's the money.
Of course people will come to a free muskie fishing event. Becoming an active member, own your own boat and carving out the time is not realistic for a lot of people. The issue is systemic, drops in participation are occurring across various hobbies, and the reason is always the same: Can't get enough PTO, I don't make enough money or my wife will kill me if I use my 10 days of PTO on fishing instead of family time. The economy sucks for the vast majority of younger anglers, and if the economy isn't sucking for them thats because they are in a geography that is far away from muskie.....thus making owning a boat not practical or smart. | |
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| TCESOX - 1/28/2020 5:24 PM
Fishysam - 1/28/2020 1:25 PM
32- cost, why give up one dollar when it doesn't benefit me...
Maybe because it is a good cause. Plus it's just good to do something that doesn't just benefit you. You, no doubt, have benefitted from things done by Muskies Inc. Without Muskies Inc., CPR probably wouldn't be as pervasive as it is, and there would be way fewer big fish. Probably fewer lakes with muskies. There's a good chance you have caught a fish that was stocked by Muskies Inc. or with Muskies Inc. money. $35 bucks a year to support an activity you enjoy, even if you never go to a meeting, aint much. I don't get out pheasant hunting much, and haven't hunted waterfowl in several years, but I send a small membership check to Pheasants Forever and Ducks unlimited, every year. Never been to any meetings or banquets. Just want to support their efforts. Also, just one more name to add to a member list. We had an idiot legislator here, that a few years ago, used the number of Muskies Inc. members in the state, to indicate that not very many people fished for muskies, as if every person that fished for them, was in the club.
I understand that but many people don't, for instance if they stocked one lake with a billion muskies but it isn't my lake it's not helping as they are to concerned with getting gas in their truck | |
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Location: oswego, il | CincySkeez - 1/29/2020 1:18 PM
Guys it's the money.
Of course people will come to a free muskie fishing event. Becoming an active member, own your own boat and carving out the time is not realistic for a lot of people. The issue is systemic, drops in participation are occurring across various hobbies, and the reason is always the same: Can't get enough PTO, I don't make enough money or my wife will kill me if I use my 10 days of PTO on fishing instead of family time. The economy sucks for the vast majority of younger anglers, and if the economy isn't sucking for them thats because they are in a geography that is far away from muskie.....thus making owning a boat not practical or smart.
I disagree, as I have stated, the demographic I see on the water and the Muskie shows are much younger than involved in M.I. | |
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Location: Duluth | The people on the water are in dads boat, people at the show are spending money on gear that they can use when the time comes.
My evidence is anecdotal, but I am in the target age range for new membership and they all don't muskie fish for previously stated reasons. Most of my buddies that fish actually have taken up fly fishing or kayak fishing because it's so much cheaper than musky fishing. | |
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| If it has to do with finances that's even more reason to join a club,,and find people to share boat time with,split gas,expenses and take discounted club outings. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ToddM - 1/29/2020 2:11 PM
CincySkeez - 1/29/2020 1:18 PM
Guys it's the money.
Of course people will come to a free muskie fishing event. Becoming an active member, own your own boat and carving out the time is not realistic for a lot of people. The issue is systemic, drops in participation are occurring across various hobbies, and the reason is always the same: Can't get enough PTO, I don't make enough money or my wife will kill me if I use my 10 days of PTO on fishing instead of family time. The economy sucks for the vast majority of younger anglers, and if the economy isn't sucking for them thats because they are in a geography that is far away from muskie.....thus making owning a boat not practical or smart.
I disagree, as I have stated, the demographic I see on the water and the Muskie shows are much younger than involved in M.I.
And that is a fact. | |
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Location: Elk River, MN | ToothyCritter - 1/29/2020 7:37 AM
This topic got me curious to know how many member there are compared to other fishing/Outdoor clubs and what’s different, outside of the obvious.
MI -Approx. 6000 Members
B.A.S.S - Over 20,000
Trout Unlimited - Over 300,000
Ducks Unlimited - Over 700,000
Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes - Just Fred & Barney remain.
Perhaps taking a page out of the other clubs approach to adding membership could be useful to grow?
One item to review on these numbers is the availability of such groups, these groups span a much larger area, Muskies have a relatively smaller area of interest and availability. The number of fisherman associated with those species is much much higher.
You are right though, taking a look at how they are run and present themselves is still a point to pursue, you're not wrong about that at all | |
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Location: Duluth | Perhaps the older crowds resistance to take the word of the targeted demo speaks to the issue as well. Seeing younger people on the water or at shows is good. The explanation as to why certain chapters skew older is unique to each chapter.
The decline in participation (in outdoor activities) writ large is the issue, and the reason people can't access the outdoors is lack of financial resources. I'll stop beating my head against the wall now. | |
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| Judging by the amount of money these young guys are dropping at the shows, its hard to believe that the $35 annual membership fee is a deal breaker. | |
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Location: Duluth | Theres a difference between children and young adults who have jobs in the geography.
That said, I know chapters could be more transparent/brag a little more about how their lobbying efforts have improved the fisheries. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | CincySkeez - 1/29/2020 4:16 PM
Perhaps the older crowds resistance to take the word of the targeted demo speaks to the issue as well. Seeing younger people on the water or at shows is good. The explanation as to why certain chapters skew older is unique to each chapter.
The decline in participation (in outdoor activities) writ large is the issue, and the reason people can't access the outdoors is lack of financial resources. I'll stop beating my head against the wall now.
The observation about the big increase in younger muskie anglers on the water and at the shows is accurate. I've seen both, both are areas I work in, and the numbers are real.
I'm not 'resisting' your assessment, it just doesn't match the data I have or my personal observations. I'm looking to address why the significant increase in younger muskie anglers and female anglers in general out there is not translating to more MI members. It's not the few dollars it costs to become a member, but it certainly could be seen as superfluous due to a lack of continuing education and therefore a lack of knowledge of the history of the sport. I won't stop 'beating my head against the wall' partly because it's my job, and partly because it's something I really believe in. Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated.
I was very happy to see the increase in number of younger families at the Chicago show this year. | |
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| If someone is really struggling financially, and having a hard time making rent or putting gas in their truck, I certainly understand that they couldn't afford to do much of anything recreationally, that costs any money. However, I don't think that is the case with most of who we are talking about. Even though many outdoor pursuits have seen a decline in numbers, muskie fishing is one of the few, that has actually seen a tremendous amount of growth over the last decade. This growth is not driven by 50+ year olds. I would venture that MI memberships have been fairly stable over the last 15 or more years, but the number of people chasing muskies has exploded. That is really the question, regardless how old these folks are. How do we get them to join? | |
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| Free Wi-Fi on the boat? | |
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Location: Duluth | it's exploded because who the heck wouldnt want to catch one of these fish!
You guys are right, I missed the point that membership growth is the goal. I guess it's like any campaigning where you have to be belly to belly with people making them aware of the benefits that a certain group has provided. Most musky anglers are willing to listen to data driven arguments, and the data is certainly there to persuade people into seeing how Muskies Inc. has benefitted them personally. The org has improved fisheries everywhere. I just know a lot of the fisherman I hang out with are elated that I'm taking them out and talk about how they can't wait to buy a boat and gear when they have enough financial stability. I see that as a deterrent to membership, because those people give a #*^@ and would give back if they could.
Either way, have to spread the gospel and constantly fight the misinformation around stocking to spread the word. | |
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Location: Northern Illinois | I believe Cincy when he says it's the money, but I think it's more. I think it's also the personal time (PTO). Like I said before, when I was supporting a growing family I had no time for this kind of recreation even though I did take a week a year to fish with buddies. And I went to the fishing shows with friends - i.e. when the Lindners frequented the shows at the Rosemont in Chicago. But could I be involved in a club with the outings, meetings, and charitable activities? No way. It's only when I've grown older with the kids supporting themselves and more disposable time and income, as well as a sense of legacy that I've become active in the club. I'm starting to think that this may be common. | |
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Location: oswego, il | RLSea - 1/29/2020 8:47 PM
I believe Cincy when he says it's the money, but I think it's more. I think it's also the personal time (PTO). Like I said before, when I was supporting a growing family I had no time for this kind of recreation even though I did take a week a year to fish with buddies. And I went to the fishing shows with friends - i.e. when the Lindners frequented the shows at the Rosemont in Chicago. But could I be involved in a club with the outings, meetings, and charitable activities? No way. It's only when I've grown older with the kids supporting themselves and more disposable time and income, as well as a sense of legacy that I've become active in the club. I'm starting to think that this may be common.
If it were those things it would translate the same to being at the show and on the water. It's not. The point of this discussion is to try and figure out how to make M.I important to this demographic and get them involved. They would be a huge benefit and bring the organization to where to needs to be where it is lacking. This will not be easy because the scenario is a catch 22, they will get involved after they they become involved.
Edited by ToddM 1/30/2020 7:18 AM
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| Recruit younger members through social media, shows, club meetings, and on the water / at the boat ramps.
Social Media - Does each chapter have a facebook page that is regularly updated with events and pictures of fish? How about a daily twitter feed? Youtube channel?
Shows - Are all the local clubs represented? Are people talking to targeted demographic or just looking at them funny?
Club Meetings - Why not offer free admission to your target audience? Buy a brew for a potential members? Be welcoming to new folks? Have good speakers and fun monthly meetings?
On the water - The boat launch is a common place where fishermen gather. Talk to younger folks out fishing and ask if they've heard of the club/want to join. Some of the club run tournaments. What about offering a discounted rate for specific age groups?
It wouldn't be easy but this is how I think you would be able to draw the younger guys in.
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Location: Walker, MN | Maybe find a youngster or two who are well versed at social media, and ask them to run the chapter's social media page? Members, guides and resorts would likely be generous with photos and content if they saw youngsters contributing. | |
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Location: oswego, il | ChicagolandMusk - 1/30/2020 8:15 AM
Recruit younger members through social media, shows, club meetings, and on the water / at the boat ramps.
Social Media - Does each chapter have a facebook page that is regularly updated with events and pictures of fish? How about a daily twitter feed? Youtube channel?
Shows - Are all the local clubs represented? Are people talking to targeted demographic or just looking at them funny?
Club Meetings - Why not offer free admission to your target audience? Buy a brew for a potential members? Be welcoming to new folks? Have good speakers and fun monthly meetings?
On the water - The boat launch is a common place where fishermen gather. Talk to younger folks out fishing and ask if they've heard of the club/want to join. Some of the club run tournaments. What about offering a discounted rate for specific age groups?
It wouldn't be easy but this is how I think you would be able to draw the younger guys in.
We do all of this except buy them a beer. | |
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| ToddM - 1/30/2020 7:16 AM
The point of this discussion is to try and figure out how to make M.I important to this demographic and get them involved. They would be a huge benefit and bring the organization to where to needs to be where it is lacking.
Everyone always says it's important to get youth and younger adults involved in Muskies Inc., but the reasons are usually vague and assumed. "The youth are our future!" or some such meaningless platitude.
So, why is it important to get younger anglers more involved in Muskies Inc.?
Where does Muskies Inc. "need to be"? Where is it "lacking"? How exactly would having more 18-35 year old members address this?
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| How much longer can the 55+ over crowd sustain M.I.?? If we don't get younger folks involved, what happens to M.I. in 30 years when we're all off the water for good?
Maintaining a muskie fishery is one hell of an expensive endeavor. No money = no stocking = no more muskies in most of the places we fish for them, and probably no new lakes in the future.
Edited by esoxaddict 1/30/2020 2:00 PM
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| How much longer can the 55+ over crowd sustain M.I.?? If we don't get younger folks involved, what happens to M.I. in 30 years when we're all off the water for good?
What age do people tend to GET involved in these kinds of groups?
The majority of Muskies Inc members didn't all join 30 years ago when they were 25 years old and age up.
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Location: Northern Illinois | I'm 31 and most members in my club are in or over 50 years old. I would 90% of the club is that way. | |
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| undersized - 1/30/2020 2:05 PM
How much longer can the 55+ over crowd sustain M.I.?? If we don't get younger folks involved, what happens to M.I. in 30 years when we're all off the water for good?
What age do people tend to GET involved in these kinds of groups?
The majority of Muskies Inc members didn't all join 30 years ago when they were 25 years old and age up.
This is a good point. I didn't even start muskie fishing until my late 30s. I was way into walleye fishing before that. In my mid-forties, I quit playing baseball, quit playing golf, quit coaching hight school wrestling. I actually joined Muskies Inc. at a muskie show, when I walked by a booth, and thought it might be a good social replacement for the activities I no longer participated in. While I had been muskie fishing for a number of years before joining, and did know of MIs existence, it never occurred to me to join any club, as I was so busy with other actives on top of fishing. | |
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| I joined when I was 34, around the time I started muskie fishing.
Prior to that, I never knew there was such an organization. I was pretty hard core into fishing for 30 years before that, and muskie fishing was one of those bucket list kind of things that I'd get around to one day. Then an old work colleague called me up and said "Hey, you wanna go musky fishing?" "yeah, man. I've always wanted to try that!"
If I ever see him again, I might just punch him in the nose.... | |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Good discussion. I have seen a membership increase in our chapter in the target demographic in the last few years. These recruits came from the group of fishermen and women who didn't necessarily target muskies until now. I believe there will be good recruitment in the near future from this same group if we can continue to show them the benefits of belonging. That is why MI founding fathers made getting youth involved in fishing a priority, and not just muskie fishing. I, for one, got more joy out of helping my granddaughters catch their first bass than personally catching a muskie. This is where our next group of recruits will come from. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | RLSea - 1/30/2020 7:30 PM
Good discussion. I have seen a membership increase in our chapter in the target demographic in the last few years. These recruits came from the group of fishermen and women who didn't necessarily target muskies until now. I believe there will be good recruitment in the near future from this same group if we can continue to show them the benefits of belonging. That is why MI founding fathers made getting youth involved in fishing a priority, and not just muskie fishing. I, for one, got more joy out of helping my granddaughters catch their first bass than personally catching a muskie. This is where our next group of recruits will come from.
This.
What the younger muskie anglers out there don't know, they don't know. When it's about MI, it's in the organizations best interest to tell them. To do that, one has to be talking to them. That's a great start. | |
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Location: Phoenixville, PA | If we are going to catch these fish, we have to understand them and want to catch them.
How good is our social media game and how can it be better? What does the club do to intentionally reach out to new members? Are older members willing to see the culture of the club change if new members from a different generation arrive?
Does the club have a presence on YouTube? How about a YouTuber willing to make a video of a club outing? | |
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Location: oswego, il | undersized - 1/30/2020 1:40 PM
ToddM - 1/30/2020 7:16 AM
The point of this discussion is to try and figure out how to make M.I important to this demographic and get them involved. They would be a huge benefit and bring the organization to where to needs to be where it is lacking.
Everyone always says it's important to get youth and younger adults involved in Muskies Inc., but the reasons are usually vague and assumed. "The youth are our future!" or some such meaningless platitude.
So, why is it important to get younger anglers more involved in Muskies Inc.?
Where does Muskies Inc. "need to be"? Where is it "lacking"? How exactly would having more 18-35 year old members address this?
Strength in numbers, strength in modernization, better financial strength. It's so easier to bring more people in when the club is diverse. It gives the clubs a better ability to raise funds to stock, fund the DNR, research and youth activities. The more people, the more are involved, the more abilities we have and making the club younger the better it will be to get people involved at a younger age. The easier it will be to use the social platforms needed. Many of these clubs are two moves from the end of a jenga game, some are just one. M.I. may be very different in the next 10 years if we don't. | |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | ToddM - 1/31/2020 7:35 AM
undersized - 1/30/2020 1:40 PM
ToddM - 1/30/2020 7:16 AM
The point of this discussion is to try and figure out how to make M.I important to this demographic and get them involved. They would be a huge benefit and bring the organization to where to needs to be where it is lacking.
Everyone always says it's important to get youth and younger adults involved in Muskies Inc., but the reasons are usually vague and assumed. "The youth are our future!" or some such meaningless platitude.
So, why is it important to get younger anglers more involved in Muskies Inc.?
Where does Muskies Inc. "need to be"? Where is it "lacking"? How exactly would having more 18-35 year old members address this?
Strength in numbers, strength in modernization, better financial strength. It's so easier to bring more people in when the club is diverse. It gives the clubs a better ability to raise funds to stock, fund the DNR, research and youth activities. The more people, the more are involved, the more abilities we have and making the club younger the better it will be to get people involved at a younger age. The easier it will be to use the social platforms needed. Many of these clubs are two moves from the end of a jenga game, some are just one. M.I. may be very different in the next 10 years if we don't.
I think it would be so easy for the clubs to modernize and attract younger people, but for some reason they just don't. Social media is the easiest way to do it and yet the local club here hasn't touched their page since 2018. Brainerd does a pretty good job of it though. | |
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| Is Lee Tauchen a Muskies Inc Member? If not MI should consider sponsoring him and his You Tube Channel Todays Angler. Times have changed as have media influences most younger kids watch you tube or tick tock more then regular TV. If some one like Lee or Robbie were pushing the benifits and recruiting I think a connection could be made. Does Muskies Inc even have a promotional you tube video, because I'm not seeing one. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | They have a promotional video on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/118841754815660/videos/811155815911084/
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Kirby Budrow - 1/31/2020 7:53 AM
ToddM - 1/31/2020 7:35 AM
undersized - 1/30/2020 1:40 PM
ToddM - 1/30/2020 7:16 AM
The point of this discussion is to try and figure out how to make M.I important to this demographic and get them involved. They would be a huge benefit and bring the organization to where to needs to be where it is lacking.
Everyone always says it's important to get youth and younger adults involved in Muskies Inc., but the reasons are usually vague and assumed. "The youth are our future!" or some such meaningless platitude.
So, why is it important to get younger anglers more involved in Muskies Inc.?
Where does Muskies Inc. "need to be"? Where is it "lacking"? How exactly would having more 18-35 year old members address this?
Strength in numbers, strength in modernization, better financial strength. It's so easier to bring more people in when the club is diverse. It gives the clubs a better ability to raise funds to stock, fund the DNR, research and youth activities. The more people, the more are involved, the more abilities we have and making the club younger the better it will be to get people involved at a younger age. The easier it will be to use the social platforms needed. Many of these clubs are two moves from the end of a jenga game, some are just one. M.I. may be very different in the next 10 years if we don't.
I think it would be so easy for the clubs to modernize and attract younger people, but for some reason they just don't. Social media is the easiest way to do it and yet the local club here hasn't touched their page since 2018. Brainerd does a pretty good job of it though.
This. We are heading in the right direction. As I said, I'm optimistic.
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Location: oswego, il | The issue is getting this younger crowd to be a part of something bigger, something that benefits musky fishing. The social platforms are about individuality, not belonging to something collective or for the collective good.
Just what the Illinois clubs have done with the pond netting alone is worth it. Fingerling recruitment from the ponds went from 30-40% to 80-90%. Now we have a more consistent stocking effort year after year and much easier to manage. The nets are not a one and done deal they have to be maintained and replaced which we do when needed.
Edited by ToddM 2/3/2020 12:06 PM
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| ToddM - 2/3/2020 12:02 PM
The issue is getting this younger crowd to be a part of something bigger, something that benefits musky fishing. The social platforms are about individuality, not belonging to something collective or for the collective good.
Just what the Illinois clubs have done with the pond netting alone is worth it. Fingerling recruitment from the ponds went from 30-40% to 80-90%. Now we have a more consistent stocking effort year after year and much easier to manage. The nets are not a one and done deal they have to be maintained and replaced which we do when needed.
I disagree about social media and collective good. A great example from a few years ago was the "ice water" challenge that took the simple premise of getting a bucket of ice water dumped on your head for the sake of raising money for ALS research. That was almost exclusively a social media effort and it raised millions of dollars for ALS research. Same with GoFundMe for folks in need. One of my son's former team mates developed testicular cancer and had a lot of unreimbursed medical expenses. Friends of his from multiple states connected on social media, started a page, got the word out and raised over 10 grand to help him out in a couple weeks time. | |
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Location: oswego, il | North of 8 - 2/3/2020 12:29 PM
ToddM - 2/3/2020 12:02 PM
The issue is getting this younger crowd to be a part of something bigger, something that benefits musky fishing. The social platforms are about individuality, not belonging to something collective or for the collective good.
Just what the Illinois clubs have done with the pond netting alone is worth it. Fingerling recruitment from the ponds went from 30-40% to 80-90%. Now we have a more consistent stocking effort year after year and much easier to manage. The nets are not a one and done deal they have to be maintained and replaced which we do when needed.
I disagree about social media and collective good. A great example from a few years ago was the "ice water" challenge that took the simple premise of getting a bucket of ice water dumped on your head for the sake of raising money for ALS research. That was almost exclusively a social media effort and it raised millions of dollars for ALS research. Same with GoFundMe for folks in need. One of my son's former team mates developed testicular cancer and had a lot of unreimbursed medical expenses. Friends of his from multiple states connected on social media, started a page, got the word out and raised over 10 grand to help him out in a couple weeks time.
I don't disagree but those are causes everyone can get behind. Musky causes are not as much. IMHO having an already established organization with members at the ready would be a better approach. Musky matters are only going to gain so much momentum. | |
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| Ruddiger - 1/26/2020 7:29 AM
Howdy,
I've been a MI member since the 90's but only went to two meetings in my life. Even then it was for a chapter that was starting in my area and then I moved for work.
I've always joined in an unafiliated status because I believe deeply in the sport and in continuing the work that MI has done to expand and protect the resource.
That said, I believe the old quote "we have met the enemy, and he is us" applies to this situation. Sadly, many of the muskie fisherman I have met over the last 30 years are jerks. They carry themselves with an arrogance that turns people off (even to other muskie fisherman).
Add in all the secrecy, the condescending attitudes towards other fisherman, lectures about proper holds and releases, not to mention the constant digs over a big fish that's "not as big as the person stays it is" and it all becomes fatiguing. All of the stereotypical millennial/snowflake comments that get repeated about younger fisherman only makes it worse. It's no wonder they tune us out and move on with their life.
For me, I'm still happy to donate and be a MI member, but I don't have the time or desire to wade through the nonsense to find the benefits to being active in a club.
Take care,
Ruddiger
Preach! | |
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Posts: 4
| Chiming in here as someone in the age bracket mentioned, a new Muskies Inc. Member and a newer musky fisherman.
I'm 32, at the tail end of guys who grew up without 24/7 internet access and social media. I didnt have a computer at home until my early teens or a cell phone until I was an adult and could pay for my own. Even at that , it was a flip phone. Smart phones were still a bit of a rarity.
People my age look to different places for social interaction and information. Hop onto facebook and there are countless fishing groups, musky specific and otherwise. Type your keyword of choice into youtube and find thousands of hours of people filming fishing, videos on the latest baits, gear, techniques and tactics, filmed seminars, etc. There's an endless amount of information at your fingertips for free.
My perception of Muskies Inc. as a millenial is more that of a civic club than a social club. The people involved are very passionate about the organization, its causes and the sport.
I don't care to be involved personally at this time with Muskies Inc. but I do support what they represent and I'm more than happy to put some of my money toward that. My time is occupied by so many other obligations, its difficult to support with more than money on any regular basis.
I plan on attending some of the Chicagoland Muskie Hunters Meetings at North Branch this year to meet some local guys and hear the guest speakers.
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Location: oswego, il | That is one of the main reasons to get involved, the causes. If you have caught a stocked fish in Illinois, not just a musky, even a descendant of a stocked fish in Illinois my club FRV as well as the other musky clubs in Illinois, the IMTT through the IMA has had a hand in putting that fish on the end of your line. The same can be said for any Muskies caught in Lake Geneva Wisconsin. We have even helped Indiana some. More than enough reason to be involved in some way. Go to their fundraising events, donate. We are the biggest contributors to the IDNR and their needs.
Edited by ToddM 2/7/2020 7:12 AM
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Location: SE, WI. | ToddM - 2/7/2020 7:08 AM That is one of the main reasons to get involved, the causes. If you have caught a stocked fish in Illinois, not just a musky, even a descendant of a stocked fish in Illinois my club FRV as well as the other musky clubs in Illinois, the IMTT through the IMA has had a hand in putting that fish on the end of your line. The same can be said for any Muskies caught in Lake Geneva Wisconsin. We have even helped Indiana some. More than enough reason to be involved in some way. Go to their fundraising events, donate. We are the biggest contributors to the IDNR and their needs. Com-On Todd; how about a little credit to the Milwaukee chapter, M I. For help stocking the Fox Chain;) JD | |
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Location: Cedarburg, WI. | 37 here. I won't participate in something that feels more like a "good ol boys" club and a place that serves more to stroke the ego's of the people in charge. I send Muskie's Inc a check every other year in hopes to help with stocking otherwise i have no interest. I can get all the inside info and or seminar type talks on You Tube as well.
Also felt the same way about a gun club my father and I belonged to years back. | |
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| It's a snowy Friday afternoon here in Colorado, I hesitate to jump in on this topic but here it goes.
My dad was a Muskie fishermen from Wisconsin and been going up north since 1936 when he was four years old and my mom was born in northern Minnesota. I grew up in California but spent some summers in northern Wis. as a teen ager.
We moved to Colorado in 1991 after my dad retired and I lost my job.
In winter of 92 I found work and joined The Colorado Chapter Of Muskies Inc. witch was founded in 1990 or 91.
My dad and I were on the local board on and off from the beginning.
I was RVP for the chapter from spring 99-fall 2001 and my dad was chapter president for part of that time.
Our chapter numbers would hover around 100. (there was a small chapter in northern CO. for a short time also)
When I was RVP we had almost two hundred members.
some of the old guard did not like how the chapter was run and I guess did not like me or my pop!
So we stepped away from the board and just come to the meetings and other functions let some of the others do the work.
At this point membership was dropping and some of the old members who were not on the board were starting to die off to the weed bed in the sky. Then one fateful night at a banquet mom, dad and myself sat at a table and two couples come and sit by us, them someone come up a whispered in the ear of one of the couples and they got up and sat somewhere else and no one come and set with us for the rest of the night.
then the president during a speech thanked to whole state of Colorado for there work in muskies Inc except for dad myself and my nephew.
After the banquet a number of peeed off people to our aid with words of encouragement.
My dad did not re up and I went unaffiated and after I could not get the international to send me my release patches I was done. 2 3 years later five people showed up for the Christmas party (this used to be quite popular) And the chapter was disbanded. | |
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Location: oswego, il | Not every club is a good ole boys club. I can say that my club is definitely not that way. We have a good group who are pretty selfess and feel they are a part of something good. I know I feel that way about them. We take nothing from it. Even with that it's tough to get members involved in activities. We have a decent turnout for our meetings but down from where it was 10-15 years ago when our January meeting would see 100-150 people, our tournament at capacity. Our most important event is our banquet which relies on a good bump of people who are well outside the musky community to make it successful. Far less than half are members. This year that bump of people won't be there. It will make things tough without that support. | |
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| It's part getting people to join, and part getting people to stay. Sure, there's the "good old boy" thing, but that's perception from a few folks who walk into a room full of people who have known each other for years expecting to be immediately recognized because they have a pulse and can fog a mirror... Relationships of any sort require social interaction. To me, that's a skill lacking in the younger generations. I'm sure we as older folks aren't stellar at it either, but here's a story of why my wife left MI and will never return:
Some years back... I had just gotten her into the sport, first trip to Canada, first introduction to M.I., first actual day muskie fishing...
Wife whacks a 45"er on a topraider, maybe 10 casts into her actually knowing how to put a lure where you want it. *BLAM!!* Coolest topwater strike I've ever seen. Wife gets fish. Not a hawg, but a #*^@ nice fish for a beginner and especially a woman.
Wife wins award in our club for said fish...
As we usually do in our club, award winners get to go up on stage during the awards banquet and tell their story. She does. Wordy. Excited, as expected. Not realizing that lots of guys took a long time to get to 45"...
During this, some little punk DB kid at another table loudly exclaims: "Somebody needs to punch her in the face!!"
Well... Okay. I didn't hear that. She didn't hear that. Hats off to the guys in my club for removing said DB prior to telling me or her about it. Whaddya got, small dick syndrome? Maybe your biggest fish is 42"??
Well... Wife quit M.I. and swore she'd never go back. Reason being "What kind of ^%$&ing ^&*-HOLES" do you hang around with??!! THIS is the ^%*$*^& crowd?! If you heard that, I'd be sitting at the police station trying to get you out of $%^&* JAIL!! God KNOWS WTF we'd have to pay for lawyers! And no amount of money would even get you close, because that ^&$%* would be in little pieces, and you'd no have no WAY to justify what you did!"
Again, hats off to the cooler heads in our club, because she probably wasn't far off in her assessment. Best case would have been if she heard it instead of me. No judge in the world would convict her, but I have no doubt she'd have put a hurt on that MF that he'd remember to his deathbed... | |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Ufff, peees me off just thinking about that! | |
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| And that's the thing, man... Here's a woman, new to a sport dominated by men, who goes out and whacks a chunky 45" fish on her first day in Canada. I know seasoned veterans who would have blown chunks on that fish. I might have blown chunks on that fish! Blam! she nails it. And some stupid prick has to ruin that for her? F you! We all complain about getting new people into the sport, and getting women into the sport, and so on. And when it happens, some little dick MF'er has to ruin that experience? I'm not a violent guy, but I'd like to beat that stupid MF'er half to death for the sake of muskie fishing. | |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Todd M. , I would quit banging your head against a wall. Most people don't have enough free time to commit
to a club and meetings. i'm old, run a business, and raising a family. I don't even have time to go fishing much anymore,
but I do like to go after muskies, if I can get out. I think musky fishing is an evolution, start with bluegills on a canepole….
you get my drift. It's kind of the pinnacle, I got around to it rather late myself, but grew up fishing. Teach your kids and
take them fishing, they are the future. So many good times and memories are created. I think most people would donate who musky fish, but don't have any free time to get involved. Start a musky go fund me page, make it easy. lol Thanks for stocking those fish in the Fox chain by the way, I've had some fun catching a few.
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Location: oswego, il | Jeff, the cooler head was me. I was the person who heard him say it. Rather than create a scene I found out who he was with and had him removed. He wasn't a punk btw, someone our age who is an angry drunk, a relative of someone in our club who didn't fish. He hasn't been back. Isolated incident and we missed not having you guys there.
Fishin-ski's I want to have this discussion. My fear is this younger group will never get involved. As I stated this goes much deeper than going to club meetings. We have doubled the survival rate for the fingerling stocked in hatchery ponds. We do that kind of stuff. Without the support that goes away. This sport will suffer. A cry for help on social media will fall short, I don't care how many worshippers they have. I have already seen these types of calls to action fall short. This is why I want to have this discussion. I might ultimately be banging my head but I won't go down not swinging.
Edited by ToddM 2/8/2020 6:42 AM
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Location: MN | I used to attend most winter meetings and the banquets with my wife. I lost interest with the club when they pushed legislation to raise the minimum to 54". That is just too much. Rarely do these fish reach this length before dying, IMO. We lost support from the general public when the minimum was raised to 54", again IMO
There are other reasons, mostly political that has kept me from re-joining. If the fishery requires stocking to support it then the season should be year round or limited closure. I think if muskie inc hadn't protected the muskie so much , muskies and muskie inc may have more supporters. Think about this before you dismiss it, like you may have dismissed these ideas from former muskie inc members. | |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Born - 2/8/2020 9:05 PM
I used to attend most winter meetings and the banquets with my wife. I lost interest with the club when they pushed legislation to raise the minimum to 54". That is just too much. Rarely do these fish reach this length before dying, IMO. We lost support from the general public when the minimum was raised to 54", again IMO
There are other reasons, mostly political that has kept me from re-joining. If the fishery requires stocking to support it then the season should be year round or limited closure. I think if muskie inc hadn't protected the muskie so much , muskies and muskie inc may have more supporters. Think about this before you dismiss it, like you may have dismissed these ideas from former muskie inc members.
Why? You wanna keep one? Strange ideas you have. | |
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Location: Ashland WI | esoxaddict - 2/7/2020 9:54 PM
And that's the thing, man... Here's a woman, new to a sport dominated by men, who goes out and whacks a chunky 45" fish on her first day in Canada. I know seasoned veterans who would have blown chunks on that fish. I might have blown chunks on that fish! Blam! she nails it. And some stupid prick has to ruin that for her? F you! We all complain about getting new people into the sport, and getting women into the sport, and so on. And when it happens, some little dick MF'er has to ruin that experience? I'm not a violent guy, but I'd like to beat that stupid MF'er half to death for the sake of muskie fishing.
I’m not quite following.
What was the dude upset about? And punch a woman in the face? It sounds like the guy was really out there.
And regardless, it was one a hole. Unless there was a lot of people supporting his sentiments (and none in support of your wife) , let it go. There will always be jerks out there. You quit , they win. | |
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Location: deephaven mn | Born
you make a good point about the stocked fish lakes. If there is no reproduction why close season?
I think it's mostly an across the board season to protect spawning fish and having different rules for different lakes
makes it confusing and leads to rule breaking. Did not realize that protecting the resource is a turn off.
Catch and release is the first form of protecting the resource and has done wonders in keeping fish available to catch.
Which what I desire. Muskies Inc was the pioneer of this practice because of the limited numbers of muskies. It works!
and results are wonderful!
Edited by kap 2/9/2020 8:22 AM
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Location: MN | I could have killed the first big fish I ever caught 48" brute, didn't have a camera. I let it go. Never said I wanted to keep a fish. Just think 54" is too much and has alienated people who were neutral on the subject and now consider the muskie vermin to be removed and never to be stocked in new waters. | |
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Location: oswego, il | Born - 2/9/2020 8:35 AM
I could have killed the first big fish I ever caught 48" brute, didn't have a camera. I let it go. Never said I wanted to keep a fish. Just think 54" is too much and has alienated people who were neutral on the subject and now consider the muskie vermin to be removed and never to be stocked in new waters.
I understand what you are saying but are those people who oppose the length limit avid musky fisherman, people that would join, have been members and left? I don't know of any 54" size limits on any waters that don't have that potential. Just looking for clarification. I can understand the elitist argument and those who oppose Muskies really oppose musky fisherman on their lake. Build it and we will come, way more of us than you want.
Edited by ToddM 2/9/2020 10:57 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | A campaign by a few goofs did do some damage and I'm sure it would have been about the same misinformation campaign if the max was 50, or 49, or whatever. MI's job there is to assist legislators to understand the biology and reality, and help the DNR with management policy acceptance by educating the public. The efforts over there are about access rights and keeping anglers off 'their' water. Without the hard work of a few MI folks what they were after might have happened. In this case, 'the public' was mostly them...and us. | |
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Location: oswego, il | Ledo, the person who said that about Jeff's wife said it to another woman directly as well. A person came up to me and wanted to get into a confrontation, I intervened and handled it without an incident. When he said it aloud when I heard it Jeff's wife Samantha was up front getting award. She didn't hear it When I had his relative remove him I was told he can get that way when he drinks. It wasn't so much a problem personally with the woman as it was he had a personal problem. He hasn't and will never be allowed back. An unfortunate isolated incident.
Edited by ToddM 2/9/2020 11:03 AM
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| Just as some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids, some shouldn't be allowed to drink. | |
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Location: MN | The slowing and stopping of stocking new MN lakes happened shortly after the 54" minimum went into place. IMO if it had stayed at 50 the anti sentiment wouldn't have happened. | |
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| I joined Muskies Inc. in the early 1990's and was put into the newly formed Colorado Chapter as Wyoming didn't have a chapter. Was going to college at the time so I wasn't able to attend meetings. Northern Colorado Chapter formed a few years later and I was moved into it without being asked or informed. Turned out to be a good move as I found the new chapter to be more welcoming and friendlier. Chapter was later folded back into the Colorado Chapter. At the beginning of 2000 I moved to Tennessee and looked into joining the Tennessee chapter but it closed about the time I moved south. I asked about staying in Colorado Chapter and was told it was no problem, until I started to have success fishing in Tennessee and Kentucky. I started to win the release title fairly regularly and suddenly new "rules" were implemented. I had to attend at least one meeting or outing each year to be eligible to win. I attended a meeting and was introduced to several of the chapters bigwigs. The chapter's new "golden boy" the president's and secretary's son came up to me to introduce himself and asked me if I had ever caught a tiger (hybrid) muskie. That year I had caught a couple in Wyoming along with a bunch of Kentucky and Tennessee purebreds. He then shared with me that he hadn't ever caught one. That same meeting I was told of a new "rule" requiring all entered fish be "local". Golden Boy caught all his fish on his yearly family's month long vacation on Lake of the Woods Ontario. I knew then that the politics weren't my deal and became an unaffiliated member and have remained one clear to the present. Since then I do all my esocid lobbying on my own.
Utah started a chapter a few years ago and a Utah fisheries biologist I correspond with regularly encouraged me to attend a tiger muskie seminar put on by the DWR and the Utah chapter. During the seminar all the Utah chapter people sat bunched together, no name tags or any other identification identifying themselves as club members. You would think that meeting would be prime recruiting grounds for new Muskies Incers. but they just turned me and many others off with their preceived superiority complexes. I definitely had no desire to deal again with the politics of belonging to a chapter and had several nonmembers express concerns about club attitudes while visiting with me at the seminar. Unfortunately politics can and do have an effect on club recruitment, which I find to be one of Muskies Inc's. largest problems. | |
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| I find it interesting that there hasn't been other Muskie organizations started. Whats to stop somebody from starting something else a bit more informal and fun that might draw others. It can't be cost, just takes a few guys and a meeting place to start. | |
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Location: Northern Illinois | The "elitist" problem is a local problem. It's amazingly true how a club or group follows their leadership when it comes to accepting new people into their group or being inclusive when it comes to sharing knowledge and information. But it is a mistake to globalize the problem and paint all MI clubs with the same brush. I understand the sour taste a bad experience can leave and feel fortunate that our club has good leadership. | |
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Location: oswego, il | RLSea - 2/9/2020 6:09 PM
The "elitist" problem is a local problem. It's amazingly true how a club or group follows their leadership when it comes to accepting new people into their group or being inclusive when it comes to sharing knowledge and information. But it is a mistake to globalize the problem and paint all MI clubs with the same brush. I understand the sour taste a bad experience can leave and feel fortunate that our club has good leadership.
I think these are isolated issues not so much the global issue I am hoping to find. I can certainly understand it can happen.
As far as non-muskie inc clubs go, there are some and they are good smaller clubs.
Edited by ToddM 2/9/2020 6:38 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ToddM - 2/9/2020 6:36 PM
RLSea - 2/9/2020 6:09 PM
The "elitist" problem is a local problem. It's amazingly true how a club or group follows their leadership when it comes to accepting new people into their group or being inclusive when it comes to sharing knowledge and information. But it is a mistake to globalize the problem and paint all MI clubs with the same brush. I understand the sour taste a bad experience can leave and feel fortunate that our club has good leadership.
I think these are isolated issues not so much the global issue I am hoping to find. I can certainly understand it can happen.
As far as non-muskie inc clubs go, there are some and they are good smaller clubs.
For certain. | |
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Posts: 386
| I just so happen to be in that age bracket, and technically a MI member. Unfortunately, I rarely get to partake in club activities due to work schedules between my wife and I. Kids activities, tae kwon do, swim lessons, etc... Also, when I do have the time available, and it's during fishing season, I'd rather just go fishing. I'm selfish like that. | |
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| So...our Milwaukee Chapter had some pretty poor finances for years. We streamlined a lot of things, because we get no direct money from Muskies Inc dues, and now, after about 6 years, our books look really good.
We are trying to do some "new" things in our chapter to help get people on the water, whether for muskies or other fish.
Last year we ran an ice trip to Door County for whities. Got a handful of members to participate.
The exciting thing we did was a "Powder Puff" tournament. No entry fee. But it was a women's event. Men were there to run the boat, net fish...etc. Everyone who fished got some gourmet coffees and a bottle of wine. We had 3 large gift baskets for the "winners" of the tournament. Those gift baskets we comprised of gift that my wife picked out. Wine, chocolates, coffees, a handbait custom bucktail made by a member....etc.
We got that thing going as a fun way to give back to the ladies who allow many of us to fish for these critters. And it was well received. We even had a little "wrap up" session at a bar when the event was done. We kept it to about 4 hours and were told that was a good amount of time for most of the women who just weren't used to slinging baits all day.
If you are looking for a fun way to get more members involved, I'd recommend a ladies outing/tournament like that.
This year we are looking to do more member events for our chapter. It's nice when you have some funds to allocate to those kinds of events. | |
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Location: oswego, il | Vegas492 that is one of the points I want to make here is where the clubs raise money to do stuff like this, support youth events, youth clubs, the DNR, stocking our club raises money for cancer research every year in addition to the ones I just mentioned. We also raise money for One Hope United, Take a Vet Fishing and the Schaumburg H. S. Bass Team. The money doesn't come from our monthly meeting. Those are more for comradery and learning. The money is raised by our banquet, tournament, musky show raffle and our cancer awareness outing. Without participation for those events we can't do anything.
Edited by ToddM 2/10/2020 10:55 AM
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Born - 2/9/2020 1:10 PM
The slowing and stopping of stocking new MN lakes happened shortly after the 54" minimum went into place. IMO if it had stayed at 50 the anti sentiment wouldn't have happened.
Couldn’t disagree any more. That’s a complicated issue with a variety of factors and your reasoning is way too simple. Invasive species, public water access rights, declining fishing of other species, spearing battles, etc...
Pretty odd to me to be critiquing the 54” size limit when the amount of fish caught over 54” in MN (although possibly tapering off) was probably the highest likelihood of that happening anywhere on earth. It clearly worked for what it was intended to do
Edited by Musky Brian 2/10/2020 11:28 AM
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| You bet, Todd!
Muskies Inc Chapters do a lot for the fishing and the community. Far beyond "just" muskies.
Our club isn't quite there yet with community things, but we do run a great Vets outing and Big Brothers/Big Sisters outing. We need a few more good financial years to be able to do more...and of course we could use more volunteering members. As I'm sure every club could use.
The power of Muskies Inc. will always be in the local chapters themselves and what they want to accomplish. The parent is there for some support, but really it falls on the local chapter to make a difference. | |
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| Musky Brian - 2/10/2020 11:26 AM
Born - 2/9/2020 1:10 PM
The slowing and stopping of stocking new MN lakes happened shortly after the 54" minimum went into place. IMO if it had stayed at 50 the anti sentiment wouldn't have happened.
Couldn’t disagree any more. That’s a complicated issue with a variety of factors and your reasoning is way too simple. Invasive species, public water access rights, declining fishing of other species, spearing battles, etc...
Pretty odd to me to be critiquing the 54” size limit when the amount of fish caught over 54” in MN (although possibly tapering off ) was probably the highest likelihood of that happening anywhere on earth. It clearly worked for what it was intended to do
Musky Brian is correct. There wasn't that much resistance to the 54 inch issue. Actually, it was supposed to be 55 inches, and all it took was a one inch concession to get the deal done. The only reason to have a smaller limit is so you can whack more fish (and there is no good reason to do so). No correlation between the size limit change and the new lake stocking either. Other issues involving the DNR, at the time, complicated the lake stocking. | |
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| I think part of the disconnect with the younger folks might just be that they aren't old enough to remember what the fishing was like back in the 70's and into the 80's before M.I. started gaining prevalence and promoting catch and release/stocking/etc.
For those those of us who were fishing back then it's easy to see the value in organizations like M.I. because we've seen what they've accomplished and how it's played out over the years. Maybe for the younger folks, muskie fishing of today just "is", and not much thought is given to why or how it got there.
Now, I'm sure most of these younger folks would rather slit their wrists than sit and listen to some old fart go on about how tough it was "back in the day" when we all had to walk 5 miles uphill in the snow just to get to school, but perhaps a simple reminder of the fact that "You wouldn't be catching muskies here today if not for M.I. and the contributions from their membership..." might be in order.
I was lucky to get into it at an age where I was at least somewhat wise enough to realize that those "old farts" knew a lot more than I did, and that an awful lot of them helped to make those opportunities that I had to go catch these stupid fish.
Maybe the young guys/gals don't even realize that not long ago muskies were shot at the side of the boat and would up in lake Crisco.
Edited by esoxaddict 2/10/2020 6:43 PM
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| esoxaddict - 2/10/2020 6:10 PM
I think part of the disconnect with the younger folks might just be that they aren't old enough to remember what the fishing was like back in the 70's and into the 80's before M.I. started gaining prevalence and promoting catch and release/stocking/etc.
For those those of us who were fishing back then it's easy to see the value in organizations like M.I. because we've seen what they've accomplished and how it's played out over the years. Maybe for the younger folks, muskie fishing of today just "is", and not much thought is given to why or how it got there.
Now, I'm sure most of these younger folks would rather slit their wrists than sit and listen to some old fart go on about how tough it was "back in the day" when we all had to walk 5 miles uphill in the snow just to get to school, but perhaps a simple reminder of the fact that "You wouldn't be catching muskies here today if not for M.I. and the contributions from their membership..." might be in order.
I was lucky to get into it at an age where I was at least somewhat wise enough to realize that those "old farts" knew a lot more than I did, and that an awful lot of them helped to make those opportunities that I had to go catch these stupid fish.
Maybe the young guys/gals don't even realize that not long ago muskies were shot at the side of the boat and would up in lake Crisco.
Good point. Also, I think a lot of these topics just aren't necessarily on younger folks radar yet. I know that during the decade that I owned my first boat, and a few years into my second one, I pretty much was just focused on where and when I was going fishing next, and how was I going to catch fish. Hadn't yet thought much about a bigger picture, so to speak. | |
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Location: Elk River, MN | Musky Brian - 2/10/2020 11:26 AM
Born - 2/9/2020 1:10 PM
The slowing and stopping of stocking new MN lakes happened shortly after the 54" minimum went into place. IMO if it had stayed at 50 the anti sentiment wouldn't have happened.
Couldn’t disagree any more. That’s a complicated issue with a variety of factors and your reasoning is way too simple. Invasive species, public water access rights, declining fishing of other species, spearing battles, etc...
Pretty odd to me to be critiquing the 54” size limit when the amount of fish caught over 54” in MN (although possibly tapering off ) was probably the highest likelihood of that happening anywhere on earth. It clearly worked for what it was intended to do
Absolutely Brian, the slowing and stopping of stocking new MN lakes is not at all due to the 54" minimum set in place. That just happened to happen right before certain individuals decided they wanted to use Muskies as an excuse to remove people's rights to fish certain (their) lakes. A handful of people with money used their influence to push these subjects and force the DNR into a position where they needed to pause their plans. You'd be surprised as to how much money has been donated to fight poor legislation.
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Posts: 1194
| Well as far as starting a new Muskie club or any club for that matter you have to be careful how you draw it up as far as being a non profit , Charging dues, getting donations and donating money for muskies . and on and on. | |
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Posts: 89
| sukrchukr - 1/25/2020 8:33 AM
Ive noticed the same thing. I think some of them are too busy editing their footage for the you tube channel they are trying to get going. Where they can proudly hold up a 33"er for the camera....or spend 8 minutes getting the boat positioned correctly for the perfect camera angle before settting the hook with live bait......
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maybe I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, just had to vent a little
This quote helps summarize why I think younger people are turned off. When I got into muskie fishing I got most of my information from the internet. When I click a discussion thread hat I think might be interesting such as this one, and the third comment on the thread is as such, I immediately lose all interest in the topic. Most of the younger generation get their info from lurking forums and watching youtube videos. Comments like this, in my opinion, do nothing but turn us off from wanting to come out and participate in a club. First impressions and what not. While perfectly valid opinions, you have to remember that "33 incher" might be the video youtube recommends to a kid to watch which gets a kid interested in muskie fishing.
While not applicable in Canada, I also feel that the comments made regarding a generational separation from the pre-stocking days probably plays a part. I have only ever known good fishing thanks to catch and release regulations in NWO, I imagine many other people my age would have a hard time relating to things such as stocking programs as we simply weren't a part of the old scene before many lakes were at their current state. I have read many a thread on here discussing how many of the lakes in the US are now on par with Canada, where Canada used to be held at a prestigious level. | |
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Posts: 120
Location: Twin Cities Metro | Medy and others,
You're not the only one that winced a bit when you read that post. I'm not in the younger crowd, but I thought that post was a little unfair as well. To be honest, I love that young folks are interested enough in the sport to spend time editing their YouTube footage. Even I, in my dotage (I'm 48), spend a lot of time on YouTube maintaining my muskie fishing enthusiasm over the winter!
The crews at Burnin Eights, Today's Angler, and Doug Wegner are doing a fantastic job building exposure to our sport. My son is 18, and he is FAR more likely to be watching YouTube than watching television. From what I can tell, some of these muskie channels on YouTube have more subscribers than, for instance, Musky Hunter magazine. I know that is comparing apples to oranges, but it is something to think about.
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | Agree, the get the hell off my lawn mentality won't work. Get on my lawn let's hear some ideas on how to make is greener. | |
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Posts: 1000
| Competing priorities (demanding careers, family, hobbies), declining participation in outdoor activities, and general lack of awareness.
If you make participation easier and make a big awareness push, you'll probably see improved attendance. An example would be the Twin Cities Chapter summer league. By adopting a digital format, they increased regular participation from less than a dozen anglers to >40 participants this last year. Key is flexibility - participants have the whole week to check in instead of having to make a pre-set time during the week. I travel 25-75% of the time for my career and this is the ONLY format that works for me. | |
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Posts: 1080
Location: Aurora | 1) People love easy.
2) You don't change people, the business model/system has to change. I think public schools figured that out back in the 30's/40's. | |
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Posts: 51
| Sorry for the bump but I thought more opinions the better from the age bracket you're looking expand.
Im 39 years old and I've been interested in Musky fishing for quite awhile before actually getting serious about it a couple years ago. I've pretty much seen all the Muskie videos on you tube, read every article there is and Im not sure I've been pitched once by any of the pros to join.
Im only aware of MI's existance mostly from reading message boards when it's usually mentionned but not sold. Not only Am I vaguely aware of MI, Im totally in the dark as what is expected from me as a member.
I have the money to pay a yearly fee but I really dont have time to commit to frequent in-person meetings.
If you're looking to get younger people to commit, I think you should find a way to deliver speaking events online for certain price. While I dont have time to go to the actual event in person, I probably wouldnt mind paying for the online webinar as I could watch it at a convenient time.
While Im not qualified to make Muskie instructionnal video's I would gladly do so so MI can sell them online, maybe thats just me but its worth asking around to guys who are expert Muskie fisherman and members of the club. It's one way to contribute without missing time on the water, win/win.
Get some youtube guys with alot of subs to promote you, their followers would buy anything these guys tells them to Im sure you'd get a fair amount of newcomers that way.
In think in person meetings and events is going to be a hard sell going foward IMHO | |
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Posts: 596
Location: Duluth | Honestly, the in person meetings are my favorite part. You get to learn so much more in casual conversation. Have a beverage or two if you are inclined to do so.
Another benefit is fishing partners, last weekend I was able to meet up with MI members on Cass, whom I had never fished with before, but was able to connect with through MI and this website. | |
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Posts: 59
| I am in the 25-45 year old demographic and have been a Muskies Inc. member for 10 years.
I don't attend the in person meetings anymore, at least when they held them before COVID. So much information is available online these days that the seminars etc. are redundant. Meeting face to face does have its advantages, but when your juggling school, work, family and other personal activities it becomes harder to justify going out to a MI meeting when that time could be spent more productively.
I do think recruitment of my generation and future generations is very important, not just for the future of MI, but for the future of the resource as well. MI needs to improve its marketing to reach a wider audience. Occasional mentions on social media by sponsored influencers and sports show booths are not enough. I would like to see more public engagement and if funding allows TV and radio commercials! Those influencers who are sponsored by MI should also make it more public in their programming, and MI should also sponsor more of those with a social media following. | |
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'm the VP of marketing and communications for MI now, elected a couple weeks ago. I have been running the MI Facebook page for a couple years, and have grown the page to over 39000 following. One of the many projects we are undertaking is dramatically increasing the social media communication between MI, the Chapters, and the general fishing public, targeting all anglers who fish muskies.
MI has received a directive from the IRS to significantly increase emphasis on all Chapter MI websites, in the magazine and on social, actively promoting Fisheries, Research, and Youth activities, the cornerstones of the organization. That's our committee's focus for a couple weeks, after which we will be undertaking a new outreach program designed to engage, educate, entertain, and inform.
I appreciate your comments and will certainly add them to the discussion.
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Posts: 21
| I'm 46 and been fishing for muskies for about 26 years or so. I have never joined a MI club, and probably never will. I don't like that they gave a truckload of money to Keyes Outdoors to film the PMTT. Let the PMTT figure out how to get their tournament on TV
Also, when hot water fishing was clearly killing muskies. For the longest time it seemed MI had their head in the sand on the issue. Seems they might not now, but that rubbed me the wrong way for a "conservation" group.
Lastly, it seems they promote points and competing and chest thumping. Hey, I'm all for a tournament and social outing that involves fishing. It should be fun, right! However, the season long points thing seems to promote fishing hot water, cheating, lying etc.
Most of this is my perspective as an outsider. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't care. My perception is what is keeping me out of it.
All this just rubs me the wrong way. I'm all about conservation. I've not seen a lot from MI that would show me otherwise! | |
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Posts: 3136
| MI doesn't do anything for conservation???
The tags mi buys for the dnr to monitor fish
The fish they buy from fish farms to complete the dnr stocking quota when their short.I
The minnows they buy for the dnr rearing ponds when needed
The push to increase size limits so it's almost impossible to keep a fish
The very first organization to promote catch and release,,not trout unlimited not BASS.
How many many MI tournaments have been canceled because of water temps
How does having a members only year long fishing contest promote cheating??? There's nothing to win except maybe a wood plaque.
Edited by happy hooker 7/8/2020 6:08 PM
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Esox Chaos - 7/8/2020 1:49 PM
I'm 46 and been fishing for muskies for about 26 years or so. I have never joined a MI club, and probably never will. I don't like that they gave a truckload of money to Keyes Outdoors to film the PMTT. Let the PMTT figure out how to get their tournament on TV
Also, when hot water fishing was clearly killing muskies. For the longest time it seemed MI had their head in the sand on the issue. Seems they might not now, but that rubbed me the wrong way for a "conservation" group.
Lastly, it seems they promote points and competing and chest thumping. Hey, I'm all for a tournament and social outing that involves fishing. It should be fun, right! However, the season long points thing seems to promote fishing hot water, cheating, lying etc.
Most of this is my perspective as an outsider. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't care. My perception is what is keeping me out of it.
All this just rubs me the wrong way. I'm all about conservation. I've not seen a lot from MI that would show me otherwise!
Lots of misinformation here, please get your facts straight before leveling accusations. Maybe you are wrong on some issues, for sure you are on Keys Outdoors. You should care if you are wrong if you care about muskie fishing. | |
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| Gosh, I just got an email from a MI club (not a member), about taking kids fishing, asking for support. Great activity and I know it is not the only one they do. | |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | Esox Chaos - 7/8/2020 1:49 PM
I'm 46 and been fishing for muskies for about 26 years or so. I have never joined a MI club, and probably never will. I don't like that they gave a truckload of money to Keyes Outdoors to film the PMTT. Let the PMTT figure out how to get their tournament on TV
Also, when hot water fishing was clearly killing muskies. For the longest time it seemed MI had their head in the sand on the issue. Seems they might not now, but that rubbed me the wrong way for a "conservation" group.
Lastly, it seems they promote points and competing and chest thumping. Hey, I'm all for a tournament and social outing that involves fishing. It should be fun, right! However, the season long points thing seems to promote fishing hot water, cheating, lying etc.
Most of this is my perspective as an outsider. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't care. My perception is what is keeping me out of it.
All this just rubs me the wrong way. I'm all about conservation. I've not seen a lot from MI that would show me otherwise!
The whole point of the contest is to build a musky fishing database for club members to use. It's an honor system so it's on the membership to be honest. Is it perfect, no but the more fish the more reliable the information. It's a perk to the membership. Needs to be marketed better but it's a giant database that's taken countless hours to compile.
Edited by ToddM 8/12/2020 1:02 AM
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Posts: 357
| I think it will be tougher for any types of clubs going forward. In my particular case i have been an on/off member of MI over the years. I felt compelled to be a member in part to help the conservation / education aspects, but there is not really a close local chapter and I quite honestly wouldn't have time to volunteer much to it.
I'll be curious how the MN membership holds as the easy fishing cycles of the stocking programs decline, and are back to fishing the established or newly established populations (goal of mn stocking programs). As we move back to the fish of 10K casts, I think we will see a shift away from the overall bandwagon popularity.
The overall elitist attitude of the Musky community rubs a lot of people the wrong way (at least in the areas of MN i fish), and drumming up public support is going to be more challenging than ever. During some of the peak years of the stocking program it was not uncommon to see 2/3 of the boats at a ramp to be out of state. While this was good for some of the local economies in part, a lot of local fisherman were rubbed the wrong way by out of state guides and fisherman. There were a lot of relatively small lakes that really got pounded and really may never recover from that. You can see how some one who volunteers time on local stocking, helping DNR with assessments, education etc...might be a little worn out too
Hopefully MI can keep going. But i think its going to be really challenging.
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Posts: 1023
| Just speaking for the Milwaukee Chapter here....
COVID has hit us hard.
We have had to cancel our usual fundraisers this year. Our only fundraiser came from helping promote the Ranger boat from the Alliance. I believe we were able to net out a couple hundred dollars.
We usually have a great spring tournament (Pewaukee Classic). Big Brothers/Big Sisters outing, Vets Outing, Women's Tournament, Chapter outings/Challenges....etc.
But not this year. Maybe we can still run an event or two.
And this year we went in on a project with Muskellunge Club of Wisconsin (great organization) and we ordered up some tags to get into fish so we could study migration within a local "chain" of lakes.
Along with our usual stocking efforts, as allowed by the DNR.
I guess my point is this...COVID put a halt to what we could do and we've had to be very, very budget conscious over this, as we get ZERO revenue for our club from the membership dues. We rely on our fundraisers and those in-person meeting to help cover costs and keep us doing what we want to do.
It's an odd year for our club, but hopefully we can finish strong and set ourselves up for a good 2021.
And if you do fish muskies around Milwaukee? Please look at joining, our seminars in January and February are top notch and that alone is worth your membership. Thankfully our venue, Machine Shed, has not charged us for the space, as we usually eat and drink enough to make it worthwhile to them. So if you find yourself at the Machine Shed, please pass along your thanks to them. They've been a great partner. | |
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Posts: 167
Location: Tomahawk, WI | I haven't been on this forum in over a year so forgive me on getting in on this so late. I'm 46 and have been a member of MI for the last 20 years. The problem I see with the organization is its lack of visibility to the general fishing public. Most musky people know about MI, but outside our small community, most dont know we exist. There are plenty of regional fishing shows that we all watch, but rarely hear a peep about MI on them. Why is that? Where is the social media presence for MI?The POTUS is on Twitter every day because he know that its an effective form of modern communication. Why is MI not doing the same thing. There are so many social media platforms out there and if MI is on them, this longtime member has not been able to find them. And its not just enough to have the pages set up. They must be maintained to be effective. This means almost daily updates or they wont be noticed. Again look at the POTUS, if he tweeted once a month people would forget about it. He tweets daily and people are waiting for that tweet, they cant get enough of it. Good or bad, they are all over it because they are hooked on it. If MI wants to keep going, they need to step up their game when it comes to modern communication. If they want to just stay with the "older" crown , then keep doing what the same old thing. If you want to reach that younger generation, you have to go the the places they hang out. Those younger people we so desperately want to join our ranks, are not just going to stumble into that old VFW hall and sit down for a meeting. I guess what i'm getting at is this. MI needs to get with the times. Go to the people you want to be involved, dont just hope they come to you. Use the media platforms your target is using to get your message out. Dont believe that they will just come because you are there. And lastly, be aggressive in the campaign. once a month tweets dont work, but daily posts and tweets will get peoples attention. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | banditman - 8/12/2020 10:31 AM I haven't been on this forum in over a year so forgive me on getting in on this so late. I'm 46 and have been a member of MI for the last 20 years. The problem I see with the organization is its lack of visibility to the general fishing public. Most musky people know about MI, but outside our small community, most dont know we exist. There are plenty of regional fishing shows that we all watch, but rarely hear a peep about MI on them. Why is that? Where is the social media presence for MI?The POTUS is on Twitter every day because he know that its an effective form of modern communication. Why is MI not doing the same thing. There are so many social media platforms out there and if MI is on them, this longtime member has not been able to find them. And its not just enough to have the pages set up. They must be maintained to be effective. This means almost daily updates or they wont be noticed. Again look at the POTUS, if he tweeted once a month people would forget about it. He tweets daily and people are waiting for that tweet, they cant get enough of it. Good or bad, they are all over it because they are hooked on it. If MI wants to keep going, they need to step up their game when it comes to modern communication. If they want to just stay with the "older" crown , then keep doing what the same old thing. If you want to reach that younger generation, you have to go the the places they hang out. Those younger people we so desperately want to join our ranks, are not just going to stumble into that old VFW hall and sit down for a meeting. I guess what i'm getting at is this. MI needs to get with the times. Go to the people you want to be involved, dont just hope they come to you. Use the media platforms your target is using to get your message out. Dont believe that they will just come because you are there. And lastly, be aggressive in the campaign. once a month tweets dont work, but daily posts and tweets will get peoples attention.
I manage the Facebook account for MI including an ad buy every month. MI Facebook has grown to 40,353 and engagement has been great. I do this free of charge completely aside from my new position as MI VP Communications/Marketing. I can manage the FB and perhaps Instagram, but can't commit the time to take care of other platforms at no charge ( OFM manages 58 social pages a day). I suppose I could task the Communications committee to look for a volunteer. I'll see what I can do.
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | I understand what banditman it saying. It seems like when we foot our horn it's for our membership to hear. To get outside of that, it's on all of us. You can invite someone to join the page or just be a good ambassador and tell people about the great things we do and offer. Sport shows can help if you can gain the audience. We need to get into other publications, FB pages whereby our accomplishments can he heard. That's not on one or two people. That's what we all can do. I am always amazed when I see pics of muskies from people who live close to our club or clubs in the fibland area that aren't members and might not even know we exist.
Edited by ToddM 8/12/2020 5:46 PM
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Location: Ashland WI | Bandtiman also said "most musky people know about MI". I think he is correct there. I didn't know about MI some years back, but when I started fishing muskies again (5-7 years ago), I did learn about them. Mostly from Keyes shows.
Either way, if "most musky people know about MI", MI is doing a pretty good job at its target audience. If someone is not a "musky person", do they really want to join anyway? | |
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Location: oswego, il | 14ledo81 - 8/13/2020 6:41 AM
Bandtiman also said "most musky people know about MI". I think he is correct there. I didn't know about MI some years back, but when I started fishing muskies again (5-7 years ago), I did learn about them. Mostly from Keyes shows.
Either way, if "most musky people know about MI", MI is doing a pretty good job at its target audience. If someone is not a "musky person", do they really want to join anyway?
No they don't need to join but the message needs to go out to everyone, everywhere it can. Definitely need more writeups submitted by our memberships on the greater good we do for youth and fisheries some of it in general not just musky related. In doing this it becomes much easier to fundraise outside of our musky bubble as well as support and even attendance at our banquets and other gatherings that might make money. Imagine if every person affected by what they do have back a little, a gift certificate to a restaurant, a lure put to a bunch of them for a raffle prize anything really.. Think of how much more could be raised. Don't even have to be a member to do that. The money we raise in fibland and the things we buy for the DNR for all fisheries benefit should be known. Every stocked fish of every species and their descendants we have put our mark.
Edited by ToddM 8/13/2020 3:49 PM
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Posts: 1023
| So....what was posted about Social Media was correct...but...times are changing.
With Steve on the Board, communication is going to continue to get better and better. We've seen it already.
I feel like Muskies Inc has JUST gotten with the times. There will be more good communication coming. Thanks to Steve. | |
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Location: oswego, il | vegas492 - 8/14/2020 8:53 AM
So....what was posted about Social Media was correct...but...times are changing.
With Steve on the Board, communication is going to continue to get better and better. We've seen it already.
I feel like Muskies Inc has JUST gotten with the times. There will be more good communication coming. Thanks to Steve.
I agree, let's hope the 2nd attempt at getting MI into this century works, the first guy was run out on a rail but that old guard good ole boys club is hopefully gone. | |
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Posts: 4269
Location: Ashland WI | ToddM - 8/13/2020 3:44 PM
14ledo81 - 8/13/2020 6:41 AM
Bandtiman also said "most musky people know about MI". I think he is correct there. I didn't know about MI some years back, but when I started fishing muskies again (5-7 years ago), I did learn about them. Mostly from Keyes shows.
Either way, if "most musky people know about MI", MI is doing a pretty good job at its target audience. If someone is not a "musky person", do they really want to join anyway?
No they don't need to join but the message needs to go out to everyone, everywhere it can. Definitely need more writeups submitted by our memberships on the greater good we do for youth and fisheries some of it in general not just musky related. In doing this it becomes much easier to fundraise outside of our musky bubble as well as support and even attendance at our banquets and other gatherings that might make money. Imagine if every person affected by what they do have back a little, a gift certificate to a restaurant, a lure put to a bunch of them for a raffle prize anything really.. Think of how much more could be raised. Don't even have to be a member to do that. The money we raise in fibland and the things we buy for the DNR for all fisheries benefit should be known. Every stocked fish of every species and their descendants we have put our mark.
I disagree. "everyone, everywhere" would be a waste of time and resource (IMO).
I'm not saying a more "modern" view wouldn't be helpful, but in all reality MI is targeting a very specific (smallish) group of people. | |
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Posts: 32798
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ToddM - 8/14/2020 9:28 AM
vegas492 - 8/14/2020 8:53 AM
So....what was posted about Social Media was correct...but...times are changing.
With Steve on the Board, communication is going to continue to get better and better. We've seen it already.
I feel like Muskies Inc has JUST gotten with the times. There will be more good communication coming. Thanks to Steve.
I agree, let's hope the 2nd attempt at getting MI into this century works, the first guy was run out on a rail but that old guard good ole boys club is hopefully gone.
At this weeks Executive Committee meeting I asked each rep and officer in attendance to look this thread over. I am sure most will. | |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | 14ledo81 - 8/14/2020 1:45 PM
ToddM - 8/13/2020 3:44 PM
14ledo81 - 8/13/2020 6:41 AM
Bandtiman also said "most musky people know about MI". I think he is correct there. I didn't know about MI some years back, but when I started fishing muskies again (5-7 years ago), I did learn about them. Mostly from Keyes shows.
Either way, if "most musky people know about MI", MI is doing a pretty good job at its target audience. If someone is not a "musky person", do they really want to join anyway?
No they don't need to join but the message needs to go out to everyone, everywhere it can. Definitely need more writeups submitted by our memberships on the greater good we do for youth and fisheries some of it in general not just musky related. In doing this it becomes much easier to fundraise outside of our musky bubble as well as support and even attendance at our banquets and other gatherings that might make money. Imagine if every person affected by what they do have back a little, a gift certificate to a restaurant, a lure put to a bunch of them for a raffle prize anything really.. Think of how much more could be raised. Don't even have to be a member to do that. The money we raise in fibland and the things we buy for the DNR for all fisheries benefit should be known. Every stocked fish of every species and their descendants we have put our mark.
I disagree. "everyone, everywhere" would be a waste of time and resource (IMO ).
I'm not saying a more "modern" view wouldn't be helpful, but in all reality MI is targeting a very specific (smallish ) group of people.
I will still disagree especially when it comes to the youth side. Because of our partnership with a youth organization that we support and take them on outings, we get support, merchandise and attendance at our banquet from people outside of fishing all together. I know the chapter in or near Sheboygan has a banquet that receives tremendous support from the community in attendance and merchandise.
Edited by ToddM 8/14/2020 2:47 PM
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Posts: 4269
Location: Ashland WI | ToddM - 8/14/2020 2:45 PM
14ledo81 - 8/14/2020 1:45 PM
ToddM - 8/13/2020 3:44 PM
14ledo81 - 8/13/2020 6:41 AM
Bandtiman also said "most musky people know about MI". I think he is correct there. I didn't know about MI some years back, but when I started fishing muskies again (5-7 years ago), I did learn about them. Mostly from Keyes shows.
Either way, if "most musky people know about MI", MI is doing a pretty good job at its target audience. If someone is not a "musky person", do they really want to join anyway?
No they don't need to join but the message needs to go out to everyone, everywhere it can. Definitely need more writeups submitted by our memberships on the greater good we do for youth and fisheries some of it in general not just musky related. In doing this it becomes much easier to fundraise outside of our musky bubble as well as support and even attendance at our banquets and other gatherings that might make money. Imagine if every person affected by what they do have back a little, a gift certificate to a restaurant, a lure put to a bunch of them for a raffle prize anything really.. Think of how much more could be raised. Don't even have to be a member to do that. The money we raise in fibland and the things we buy for the DNR for all fisheries benefit should be known. Every stocked fish of every species and their descendants we have put our mark.
I disagree. "everyone, everywhere" would be a waste of time and resource (IMO ).
I'm not saying a more "modern" view wouldn't be helpful, but in all reality MI is targeting a very specific (smallish ) group of people.
I will still disagree especially when it comes to the youth side. Because of our partnership with a youth organization that we support and take them on outings, we get support, merchandise and attendance at our banquet from people outside of fishing all together. I know the chapter in or near Sheboygan has a banquet that receives tremendous support from the community in attendance and merchandise.
That’s interesting. I would have thought such a “niche” interest like Muskie fishing really wouldn’t attract others. | |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | 14ledo81 - 8/14/2020 3:39 PM
ToddM - 8/14/2020 2:45 PM
14ledo81 - 8/14/2020 1:45 PM
ToddM - 8/13/2020 3:44 PM
14ledo81 - 8/13/2020 6:41 AM
Bandtiman also said "most musky people know about MI". I think he is correct there. I didn't know about MI some years back, but when I started fishing muskies again (5-7 years ago), I did learn about them. Mostly from Keyes shows.
Either way, if "most musky people know about MI", MI is doing a pretty good job at its target audience. If someone is not a "musky person", do they really want to join anyway?
No they don't need to join but the message needs to go out to everyone, everywhere it can. Definitely need more writeups submitted by our memberships on the greater good we do for youth and fisheries some of it in general not just musky related. In doing this it becomes much easier to fundraise outside of our musky bubble as well as support and even attendance at our banquets and other gatherings that might make money. Imagine if every person affected by what they do have back a little, a gift certificate to a restaurant, a lure put to a bunch of them for a raffle prize anything really.. Think of how much more could be raised. Don't even have to be a member to do that. The money we raise in fibland and the things we buy for the DNR for all fisheries benefit should be known. Every stocked fish of every species and their descendants we have put our mark.
I disagree. "everyone, everywhere" would be a waste of time and resource (IMO ).
I'm not saying a more "modern" view wouldn't be helpful, but in all reality MI is targeting a very specific (smallish ) group of people.
I will still disagree especially when it comes to the youth side. Because of our partnership with a youth organization that we support and take them on outings, we get support, merchandise and attendance at our banquet from people outside of fishing all together. I know the chapter in or near Sheboygan has a banquet that receives tremendous support from the community in attendance and merchandise.
That’s interesting. I would have thought such a “niche” interest like Muskie fishing really wouldn’t attract others.
It does when expanding the niche to things everyone can get behind. | |
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Posts: 155
| I would love to see specifically what MI chapters are doing for their local fisheries. For the majority of chapters, I bet its not much. I know of a couple of chapters that do help with stocking and things like that, but it is a drop in the bucket. I see them raising money and asking for donations, but I have no idea what that money goes towards.
They are also not allowed to do any lobbying, which is what we need in MN more than anything with our stocking constantly under attack. MI does nothing to help this fight.
I see MI as more of a social club now. 20 years ago, it was different.
That being said, it is a great place to meet like minded musky guy's, and learn things from each other. People new to musky fishing will for sure benefit from this.
I have made several good friends through MI. The members only contest is fun, and helps collect data on fisheries.
I would push these things if trying to attract the younger crowd.
Edited by T.Carlson 8/15/2020 8:06 AM
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| T.Carlson - 8/15/2020 7:53 AM
I would love to see specifically what MI chapters are doing for their local fisheries. For the majority of chapters, I bet its not much. I know of a couple of chapters that do help with stocking and things like that, but it is a drop in the bucket. I see them raising money and asking for donations, but I have no idea what that money goes towards.
They are also not allowed to do any lobbying, which is what we need in MN more than anything with our stocking constantly under attack. MI does nothing to help this fight.
I see MI as more of a social club now. 20 years ago, it was different.
That being said, it is a great place to meet like minded musky guy's, and learn things from each other. People new to musky fishing will for sure benefit from this.
I have made several good friends through MI. The members only contest is fun, and helps collect data on fisheries.
I would push these things if trying to attract the younger crowd.
Wrong. MI is not allowed to lobby. Chapters have representatives on the MMPA, which is a lobbying group, and has a lobbyist. The MMPA is supported by the MI chapters. Also, our chapter has a website and Facebook page that mentions the stocking efforts, implants for sonar tracking of many species in the St. Croix, that have been purchased for the DNR, and other projects. Totally transparent on what fundraising goes for. | |
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Location: oswego, il | I have inquired to M.I. about lobbying but they don't seem to be interested. Talked to them about presenting the anti-musky groups as a selling point like other organizations sell their anti-groups have done but not interested.
The clubs get their best work done when they can work together and pool their money. We have the Illinois Musky Alliance here in fibland. It's not limited to M.I. musky groups. We do have an independent musky group in the IMA. I am sure if a non-musky group wanted in we would welcome. We buy, fix and supply the DNR with things ranging from oxygen meters to a traveling educational trailer. We preach these accomplishments to the choir needs to expand past our borders.
Edited by ToddM 8/15/2020 1:49 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | T.Carlson - 8/15/2020 7:53 AM
I would love to see specifically what MI chapters are doing for their local fisheries. For the majority of chapters, I bet its not much. I know of a couple of chapters that do help with stocking and things like that, but it is a drop in the bucket. I see them raising money and asking for donations, but I have no idea what that money goes towards.
They are also not allowed to do any lobbying, which is what we need in MN more than anything with our stocking constantly under attack. MI does nothing to help this fight.
I see MI as more of a social club now. 20 years ago, it was different.
That being said, it is a great place to meet like minded musky guy's, and learn things from each other. People new to musky fishing will for sure benefit from this.
I have made several good friends through MI. The members only contest is fun, and helps collect data on fisheries.
I would push these things if trying to attract the younger crowd.
You will lose that bet big time, thankfully.
Ask them, they will happily tell you exactly what they do and it's certainly not a 'drop in the bucket'. Most will tell anyone legitimately concerned what they raise and how they spend it. They are all at this point 501(c)(3) organizations and are undergoing legal review right at this moment to make sure each is doing what is required, and so far, all are so they certainly are not 'social clubs' and are correspondingly transparent. You may not get a real friendly response to an accusation before bothering to ask, but if you ask a Chapter directly, you should end up better informed. It's my job to be 'friendly' on behalf of MI and it is sometimes difficult even for me.
MI's listed objectives are Fisheries, Research, and Youth. All Chapters have to provide proof of action on those fronts to maintain their non-profit status.
Here is the official IRS ruling on the lobbying subject:
In general, no organization may qualify for section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). A 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
I hope this helps!
That said, much of the public anti-muskie issues in Minnesota ARE absolutely social in nature and brought to the State Govt. as such, which is why so far they have largely failed. The Legislative nightmare because of special interest Lake Associations and other not-my-lake groups is not new elsewhere, in fact it's old stuff and now part of the landscape in MN.
A lot of the complaints I've seen here in the last 20 years are in reality based upon differing opinions between anglers and local fisheries managers, and should be addressed differently and separately from the special interest group fiascos. That's also common, we want more than most DNRs are ready, willing, and/or able to give. Quite a few muskie anglers fail to separate the differing issues, identify what can be done, and do what they can to get what they want to happen done. Folks like TCESOX, Happy Hooker, Todd and many other MI folks here are active on the front lines, so when they post something it's from experience, too.
A few years back three of us muskie anglers in this area wanted to try to get a 50" limit on Pelican. We made some enemies and made some friends. I can report this: Anything of that nature is a lot of work. Most anglers just want to have a good population of big muskies and go catch them and I can honestly say there's not much wrong with that as long as there's the enough other anglers willing to dig in representing all of us to make that so.
I hear you on the fun things, and agree. | |
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| Ask a chapter member of Madison what they do for their lakes. Many of them post on here. I'm well east of them around Milwaukee, but that Madison chain has a lot of fish in it. Quality fish. Including leechers. That area is full of muskies because of the work that club puts into it. My $.02. And that is just stocking, they do much more.
For our club, we stock as much as we can and work with the DNR as best we can. Both MCMI and MCW do an outstanding job of keeping muskies in lakes around us...while developing fisheries in other waters.
So far as money raised? Goes towards stocking extended growth fish, the ones with a higher survival rate. Top notch seminars to learn more about chasing muskies. Youth events, veterans events....etc.
But, like any club, you get out of it what you put into it. Clubs don't work without good, engaged members. | |
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| sworrall - 8/15/2020 4:51 PM
T.Carlson - 8/15/2020 7:53 AM
I would love to see specifically what MI chapters are doing for their local fisheries. For the majority of chapters, I bet its not much. I know of a couple of chapters that do help with stocking and things like that, but it is a drop in the bucket. I see them raising money and asking for donations, but I have no idea what that money goes towards.
They are also not allowed to do any lobbying, which is what we need in MN more than anything with our stocking constantly under attack. MI does nothing to help this fight.
I see MI as more of a social club now. 20 years ago, it was different.
That being said, it is a great place to meet like minded musky guy's, and learn things from each other. People new to musky fishing will for sure benefit from this.
I have made several good friends through MI. The members only contest is fun, and helps collect data on fisheries.
I would push these things if trying to attract the younger crowd.
You will lose that bet big time, thankfully.
Ask them, they will happily tell you exactly what they do and it's certainly not a 'drop in the bucket'. Most will tell anyone legitimately concerned what they raise and how they spend it. They are all at this point 501 (c ) (3 ) organizations and are undergoing legal review right at this moment to make sure each is doing what is required, and so far, all are so they certainly are not 'social clubs' and are correspondingly transparent. You may not get a real friendly response to an accusation before bothering to ask, but if you ask a Chapter directly, you should end up better informed. It's my job to be 'friendly' on behalf of MI and it is sometimes difficult even for me.
MI's listed objectives are Fisheries, Research, and Youth. All Chapters have to provide proof of action on those fronts to maintain their non-profit status.
Here is the official IRS ruling on the lobbying subject:
In general, no organization may qualify for section 501 (c ) (3 ) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying ). A 501 (c ) (3 ) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
I hope this helps!
That said, much of the public anti-muskie issues in Minnesota ARE absolutely social in nature and brought to the State Govt. as such, which is why so far they have largely failed. The Legislative nightmare because of special interest Lake Associations and other not-my-lake groups is not new elsewhere, in fact it's old stuff and now part of the landscape in MN.
A lot of the complaints I've seen here in the last 20 years are in reality based upon differing opinions between anglers and local fisheries managers, and should be addressed differently and separately from the special interest group fiascos. That's also common, we want more than most DNRs are ready, willing, and/or able to give. Quite a few muskie anglers fail to separate the differing issues, identify what can be done, and do what they can to get what they want to happen done. Folks like TCESOX, Happy Hooker, Todd and many other MI folks here are active on the front lines, so when they post something it's from experience, too.
A few years back three of us muskie anglers in this area wanted to try to get a 50" limit on Pelican. We made some enemies and made some friends. I can report this: Anything of that nature is a lot of work. Most anglers just want to have a good population of big muskies and go catch them and I can honestly say there's not much wrong with that as long as there's the enough other anglers willing to dig in representing all of us to make that so.
I hear you on the fun things, and agree.
I can tell you that the majority of the chapters in MN, have nothing on their websites about what they are contributing to the fisheries with the money they are collecting. I think this would help if they would do so. I know I would be more likely to help out financially if I knew what I was donating to. I also think you would attract more members.
Twin Cities Chapter is the exception, they are pretty clear on what they do.
Being that you are working for them for marketing, maybe you could help them with this?
Edited by T.Carlson 8/17/2020 10:14 AM
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| vegas492 - 8/17/2020 9:02 AM
Ask a chapter member of Madison what they do for their lakes. Many of them post on here. I'm well east of them around Milwaukee, but that Madison chain has a lot of fish in it. Quality fish. Including leechers. That area is full of muskies because of the work that club puts into it. My $.02. And that is just stocking, they do much more.
For our club, we stock as much as we can and work with the DNR as best we can. Both MCMI and MCW do an outstanding job of keeping muskies in lakes around us...while developing fisheries in other waters.
So far as money raised? Goes towards stocking extended growth fish, the ones with a higher survival rate. Top notch seminars to learn more about chasing muskies. Youth events, veterans events....etc.
But, like any club, you get out of it what you put into it. Clubs don't work without good, engaged members.
I looked at the website for your chapter, and yes. It is lists out very specificly what your chapter does with stocking. It even shows the cost.
I would say this is a good example of what other chapters could do.
It also says your chapter has 350 members and is one of the largest chapters....
Another reason other chapters should take note! | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | T.Carlson - 8/17/2020 9:53 AM
sworrall - 8/15/2020 4:51 PM
T.Carlson - 8/15/2020 7:53 AM
I would love to see specifically what MI chapters are doing for their local fisheries. For the majority of chapters, I bet its not much. I know of a couple of chapters that do help with stocking and things like that, but it is a drop in the bucket. I see them raising money and asking for donations, but I have no idea what that money goes towards.
They are also not allowed to do any lobbying, which is what we need in MN more than anything with our stocking constantly under attack. MI does nothing to help this fight.
I see MI as more of a social club now. 20 years ago, it was different.
That being said, it is a great place to meet like minded musky guy's, and learn things from each other. People new to musky fishing will for sure benefit from this.
I have made several good friends through MI. The members only contest is fun, and helps collect data on fisheries.
I would push these things if trying to attract the younger crowd.
You will lose that bet big time, thankfully.
Ask them, they will happily tell you exactly what they do and it's certainly not a 'drop in the bucket'. Most will tell anyone legitimately concerned what they raise and how they spend it. They are all at this point 501 (c ) (3 ) organizations and are undergoing legal review right at this moment to make sure each is doing what is required, and so far, all are so they certainly are not 'social clubs' and are correspondingly transparent. You may not get a real friendly response to an accusation before bothering to ask, but if you ask a Chapter directly, you should end up better informed. It's my job to be 'friendly' on behalf of MI and it is sometimes difficult even for me.
MI's listed objectives are Fisheries, Research, and Youth. All Chapters have to provide proof of action on those fronts to maintain their non-profit status.
Here is the official IRS ruling on the lobbying subject:
In general, no organization may qualify for section 501 (c ) (3 ) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying ). A 501 (c ) (3 ) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
I hope this helps!
That said, much of the public anti-muskie issues in Minnesota ARE absolutely social in nature and brought to the State Govt. as such, which is why so far they have largely failed. The Legislative nightmare because of special interest Lake Associations and other not-my-lake groups is not new elsewhere, in fact it's old stuff and now part of the landscape in MN.
A lot of the complaints I've seen here in the last 20 years are in reality based upon differing opinions between anglers and local fisheries managers, and should be addressed differently and separately from the special interest group fiascos. That's also common, we want more than most DNRs are ready, willing, and/or able to give. Quite a few muskie anglers fail to separate the differing issues, identify what can be done, and do what they can to get what they want to happen done. Folks like TCESOX, Happy Hooker, Todd and many other MI folks here are active on the front lines, so when they post something it's from experience, too.
A few years back three of us muskie anglers in this area wanted to try to get a 50" limit on Pelican. We made some enemies and made some friends. I can report this: Anything of that nature is a lot of work. Most anglers just want to have a good population of big muskies and go catch them and I can honestly say there's not much wrong with that as long as there's the enough other anglers willing to dig in representing all of us to make that so.
I hear you on the fun things, and agree.
I can tell you that the majority of the chapters in MN, have nothing on their websites about what they are contributing to the fisheries with the money they are collecting. I think this would help if they would do so. I know I would be more likely to help out financially if I knew what I was donating to. I also think you would attract more members.
Twin Cities Chapter is the exception, they are pretty clear on what they do.
Being that you are working for them for marketing, maybe you could help them with this?
'They are all at this point 501(c)(3) organizations and are undergoing legal review right at this moment to make sure each is doing what is required, and so far, all are so they certainly are not 'social clubs' and are correspondingly transparent. '
This also includes a revamping of every chapter's website to reflect much of what you are asking to see. Here's another example of a website in compliance: https://milwaukeemuskiesinc.com/
If you wish to know dollar amounts from past stocking efforts and when those took place, you can contact each club individually. I think your idea is a good one to get as many Chapters as possible to create a tab describing what they are doing/have done for fisheries. The Twin Cities website, although very informative, is not yet compliant, but will be easy to adjust.
The Communication Committee is currently working with the Chapters to increase communication between them and the National, and that's what I took this position to get done. We have a monthly newsletter going out that was started in July, and your suggestion is noted, appreciated, and will be presented in a paragraph of that newsletter going to every chapter. Please PM me if you would like the request to be from you personally as an MI member/prospective member. | |
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| Ha! I think you saw the Capital City. Yah, great website and they do a ton of good.
I'm MCMI. Milwaukee Chapter of Muskies Inc.
Our website is kind of a work in progress right now.
Though....we are getting information out on our 2020 Women's Tournament. That will be the first event that we've run since COVID. This truly is a "thank you" event for all of the ladies that allow us crazies to chase muskies. There is no entry fee to pay. Every woman who signs up will get a nice door prize. The man is to "guide" his guest for 4 hours.
Prizes for top fish caught...or drawn at random. Truly a day for the fellas to put the rods down for a morning and see if they can get their lady a fish. | |
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| A little clarification on m previous response to T.Carlson. I came off a little short in two respects. 1. I was a little short (brief), because I was using a cell phone, which I rarely use except when out of town, so I was brief in my verbiage. 2., I was short (terse), because of timing. I had just spent the previous day burning more gas in a chainsaw, than I had in the previous 20 years combined, and a little short on sleep. I was down in Iowa, helping with storm damage. When I read T.Carlson's post, and saw the words "For the majority of chapters, I bet its not much.", I got a little fired up. Probably should have waited to post something, but I felt the need to respond.
Compared to many others in my chapter, my contribution is minuscule. Those guys really do a lot, and get a lot accomplished. My primary focus is on leglslation and regulation, that might effect muskies, musky fishing, lake access, protection of spawning grounds, etc. I guess that the comment of "not much", that was used to describe what MI chapters probably do with their funds, kind of raised the hackles on my neck, and I felt the need to comment, even though it wasn't convenient, or probably the right time.
So, sorry if I was a little short. I would be happy to share what I know, regarding what MI or the MMPA, do, to make muskie fishing better for everyone.
Edited by TCESOX 8/17/2020 9:36 PM
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Posts: 155
| TCESOX - 8/17/2020 9:35 PM
A little clarification on m previous response to T.Carlson. I came off a little short in two respects. 1. I was a little short (brief), because I was using a cell phone, which I rarely use except when out of town, so I was brief in my verbiage. 2., I was short (terse), because of timing. I had just spent the previous day burning more gas in a chainsaw, than I had in the previous 20 years combined, and a little short on sleep. I was down in Iowa, helping with storm damage. When I read T.Carlson's post, and saw the words "For the majority of chapters, I bet its not much.", I got a little fired up. Probably should have waited to post something, but I felt the need to respond.
Compared to many others in my chapter, my contribution is minuscule. Those guys really do a lot, and get a lot accomplished. My primary focus is on leglslation and regulation, that might effect muskies, musky fishing, lake access, protection of spawning grounds, etc. I guess that the comment of "not much", that was used to describe what MI chapters probably do with their funds, kind of raised the hackles on my neck, and I felt the need to comment, even though it wasn't convenient, or probably the right time.
So, sorry if I was a little short. I would be happy to share what I know, regarding what MI or the MMPA, do, to make muskie fishing better for everyone.
No worries, the point of what I posted was to get people a little fired up.
I realize that people on the inside are responding with "my chapter is doing this or that", but how is a non insider and potential member supposed to know this?
To my original point, they are not publishing this information enough on their websites. The majority of the chapters websites mostly talk about social events(outings, banquets, tournaments, etc.), most of these are used to raise money. Which is fine, and good.
But most don't talk about what those funds are going towards. Granted, there are some chapters that do.
The Madison WI(Capital City Chapter I believe) does a really good job of laying out what they are doing with their money, and they seem to be very successful at getting more members.
Edited by T.Carlson 8/24/2020 10:04 AM
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| TCESOX - 8/17/2020 9:35 PM
A little clarification on m previous response to T.Carlson. I came off a little short in two respects. 1. I was a little short (brief), because I was using a cell phone, which I rarely use except when out of town, so I was brief in my verbiage. 2., I was short (terse), because of timing. I had just spent the previous day burning more gas in a chainsaw, than I had in the previous 20 years combined, and a little short on sleep. I was down in Iowa, helping with storm damage. When I read T.Carlson's post, and saw the words "For the majority of chapters, I bet its not much.", I got a little fired up. Probably should have waited to post something, but I felt the need to respond.
Compared to many others in my chapter, my contribution is minuscule. Those guys really do a lot, and get a lot accomplished. My primary focus is on leglslation and regulation, that might effect muskies, musky fishing, lake access, protection of spawning grounds, etc. I guess that the comment of "not much", that was used to describe what MI chapters probably do with their funds, kind of raised the hackles on my neck, and I felt the need to comment, even though it wasn't convenient, or probably the right time.
So, sorry if I was a little short. I would be happy to share what I know, regarding what MI or the MMPA, do, to make muskie fishing better for everyone.
One more point. It would be much more powerful(I believe) if Muskies Inc had a lobbying group. I didn't even know what the MMPA was, I had to look it up after I read your post.
Muskies inc is well established and known. I believe they could make a difference on the battles we constantly face. And again, I would be absolutely motivated to help out financially with this effort, and I believe others would too. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | T.Carlson - 8/26/2020 8:34 AM
TCESOX - 8/17/2020 9:35 PM
A little clarification on m previous response to T.Carlson. I came off a little short in two respects. 1. I was a little short (brief), because I was using a cell phone, which I rarely use except when out of town, so I was brief in my verbiage. 2., I was short (terse), because of timing. I had just spent the previous day burning more gas in a chainsaw, than I had in the previous 20 years combined, and a little short on sleep. I was down in Iowa, helping with storm damage. When I read T.Carlson's post, and saw the words "For the majority of chapters, I bet its not much.", I got a little fired up. Probably should have waited to post something, but I felt the need to respond.
Compared to many others in my chapter, my contribution is minuscule. Those guys really do a lot, and get a lot accomplished. My primary focus is on leglslation and regulation, that might effect muskies, musky fishing, lake access, protection of spawning grounds, etc. I guess that the comment of "not much", that was used to describe what MI chapters probably do with their funds, kind of raised the hackles on my neck, and I felt the need to comment, even though it wasn't convenient, or probably the right time.
So, sorry if I was a little short. I would be happy to share what I know, regarding what MI or the MMPA, do, to make muskie fishing better for everyone.
One more point. It would be much more powerful (I believe ) if Muskies Inc had a lobbying group. I didn't even know what the MMPA was, I had to look it up after I read your post.
Muskies inc is well established and known. I believe they could make a difference on the battles we constantly face. And again, I would be absolutely motivated to help out financially with this effort, and I believe others would too.
MI is a 501 (C) (3), and cannot lobby as posted above. | |
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| And that is why we have the MMPA. Comprised of chapter reps. from MI chapters, and dues paid by MI chapters. We have a lobbyist and a couple of very dedicated and plugged in folks, who know what is going on at the Capitol, and who all the players are. | |
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