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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | The Quick strike rig we started using last year consisting of a 30" flourocarbon leader with a barrel swivel on ome end and a 3/0 or5/0 hook on the other end is 8 for 8 this year from 25' down. Punch a small hole in the suckers lip and pass the barrel swivel through it Scape off a few scales and LIGHTLY attach the hook just into the skin near the dorsal fin. Attach barrel swivel to snap lock of any other type short leader on your rod. Very very simple to rig and minimally invasive to the sucker. Action of sucker is better and they last longer on the rig.ALL OF YOUR HOOK SET POWER IS TRANSFERRED DIRECTLY TO THE HOOK WITHOUT HAVING TO TEAR OUT ANOTHER HOOK FROM THE SUCKERS MOUTH! The rig can be tied with seven strand if your leery of flouro. Smitty Baits Co. in Minocqua will make some upfor you or they are now commercially available in some of the stores up here.
Will we miss some fish on them? Sure but it hasnt happened yet that I know of> So far the hook up percentage is excellent. Check with ADam or Cal at skyview lodge 715 686 2928 for there experiences on this rig. Cal designed it last year. Final note. The rig could easily be retrofitted with a two hook setup with a little imagination. |
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Posts: 4520
Location: Chippewa Falls Wisconsin | Thanks Howie!
Sounds too simple to be true, but most of us musky fisherman make things too difficult at times.
The question I have. Does florocarbon cut a hole in the lip of the sucker in time big enough to cause a simple loss of the sucker while they are strugling? With the hole thru the lip for the barrel swivel it does not leave much tissue there and you would think the florocarbon would tear thru that.
What size suckers are you doing best on?
Thanks, |
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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | Jason we punch the hole a little to the side and back a little in the lips softest part. The outer rim of the lip is harder and we have not had a problem with the flouro wearing through it as long as you leave a little tissue in front by making the hole a little farther back. We us a 1oz. rubber core sinker above the flouro for weight. So far we have been using smaller suckers with the 3/0 hook, but that could change rapidly as the bigger lakes cool down to under 50 degrees. Last year ,in our area at least, even the very big girls were prefering smaller suckers all season.Why? Who knows. It seems like the suckers dont even know they are rigged up because its so unobtrusive on them if done right. If I lose a fish on one or other problems arise I will post it asap on here. |
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Posts: 1189
Location: Bagley,MN 56621 | thanks for the update.
Are you seeing any nicks or weakness's at all with the fluoro passing in their mouths?
have you "retired" one of these rigs yet and for what reasons?
Thx Howie. |
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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | Greg, not yet on the nicks , but that could surely happen.With 90% of the fish we have taken on the rig the hook was all the way through the muskies mouth and that includes a number over 30#s last year and one this year in that range. Im quite sure that will happen at some point but its worth it to me to use the flouro on the Gin bottles I fish. There are going to be missed fish on any rig that can be devised because of weak hook sets, fish inn a bad position when the hook is set,light hitters, or just plain bad luck, etc etc etc. I have no commercial interest in this rig just pointing out a different method that may suit some guys and others wont beleive it or are having good success with other rigs. Good Question though ...Thanks |
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Posts: 1189
Location: Bagley,MN 56621 | Thx Howie, looks like it's time to start shopping for supplies and building.
I got the hooks and barrel swivels, now just need the fluoro.
hmmm...80 or 100# I'm leaning towards 100# just cuz of the abrasion thing (maybe it's just in my head)......any significant properties of the 80 vs the 100 that would make me want to only go as heavy as 80#?? |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | Howie,
how about using hard mono instead of Flouro? I am a big fan of the rig but don't know if I can "cheap up" the rig a bit with hard mono to avoid spending $55 on a 30 yard spool of Flouro. If not do you know where I can get flouro bulk? I only need about five yards of the stuff. |
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| Howie,
I am assuming it is a single hook in that size. Would it work with a treble hook as long as you passed the barrel through the hole from ass to front? |
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Posts: 124
Location: Rice Lake,WI | I'll stick to the cable,minus crimps only tied and run the 2 treble lift-off rig via bait threading the rubberband thru the nasal cavity. Each trebleneeds one hook pulled straight down at 90 angle theen bent at another 90. this hhok sits just barely under sucker's skin ,should pull out easily but not so easy as weeds etc. pull them free. I,m not going to deal with circle hooks or singles no matter how they are placed thru cheek,mouth whereever as they aren;t necessary for a good hookup. When twisting rubber band,twist it as far as you can while still being able to loop it over your crosslock snap without it breaking but you want it somewhat near that breaking point for obvious reasons. Iv'e had baits re-rigged 3 sometimes 4 different times with out croaking as you really aren;t sticking those hooks in anything vital on the bait. They will work all day long behind the boat or underneath. the releasese are usual quite quick as hooks are usually caught in the net. My hook up rate is better
than ever with this method.
Goodluck
Jon Torok |
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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | Replies to some of the questions The 3/0 or 5/0 Hook is a treble hook not a single hook.Hard mono would work although I havnt used it. The Flouro Ive been using is #100. Seven Strand works quite well also and is cheaper. We use the flouro because of water clarity.
Jon, both the Herby rig and the Maina rig are very good setups, however my hits have increased dramatically since using the rig described. They have much less visibility and the suckers swim more naturally.If people lose a lot of fish with this method they will certainly report on the boards. Its all about information, experimentation and innovation. I dont sell them just passing along whats been working. Thanks for the input. |
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Posts: 346
| Howie, thanks for taking the time to give us this detailed information. What have the results been with larger suckers - 16+?
Thanks,
MJB |
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Posts: 4520
Location: Chippewa Falls Wisconsin | Tried it last night for a couple of hours and the rig worked good. I did not have a hit on the sucker, but the sucker seamed to enjoy it much better then having his nostrals plugged up with a rubberband. LOL
I think that simple rig will work just fine. |
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Posts: 41
Location: Green Bay, WI | I usually don't use any bobbers when I drag meat. Are the people using this method using bobbers? Maybe one sucker closer to the weeds without a bobber and another up higher in the water column with a bobber?? Also is anyone using blades with there sucker rigs, either attached to the tail of the sucker, or on the front of the rig for flash. I have done this in the past, but I haven't had any success. For me just a plain sucker works best. |
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Posts: 124
Location: Rice Lake,WI | Jason, the large, hearty 16-20" baits don't seem to mind having their nostrils clogged and swim quite naturally all day til they get bit. I thought fish used their mouths and gills for breathing? Whatever works for the individual I'm just doing as much as I can for the fish also not just the hookup with the use of large single hooks whether it looks more natural or not. If your sucker is spunky and weighted or unweighted
depending on certain applications; if rigged properly has a very good hookup ratio. Nothing is perfect, mostly it's angler error on rigging and hooksetting and fighting the fish to the net when using livebait. Point is no matter what system you employ we will all lose fish ,it's part of the hunt and game. The reason most of us pursue with such obsession this great fish!
Jon Torok
Eat Fish Tattoo
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | I tied up some rigs last night. Amazingly simple and clean cut rig. Now I wonder, just because I love seeing the looks on peoples faces when I shove a needle through the nostrils, if I run the swivel through a rubber band, if that will cause problems, or if I should leave it as is, and just cut a hole in the suckers mouth. Any experience with this? |
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Posts: 4520
Location: Chippewa Falls Wisconsin | Run the line thru the loop on the end of a small safty pin. Then just pin the rig to the lip of the sucker. The safty pin is sharp and will rip thru the lip of the sucker with ease.
This might be easier then putting a barrel swivel thru the lip.
Just an idea! |
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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | Tuffy, What would you gain by using the rubberband? Try it and see how it works. I like having all the hookset going directly to the treble with nothing in the way. Fished four hours yesterday from 2:30 TILL 6:30. One hit at 5:30 off a center rock bar.Ten second wait and banged a 46" fish at 25'. Treble buried in jaw, sucker gone, fish released in water from net.I know Ill miss one soon or later but batting 100% so far. Sucker was 13" but used the 5/0 hook to test it on a small sucker.Using the 7'6" St.Croix Catfish Classic Rod. Water Temps 54 degrees, Bluebird skies,Clear water lake.Client had never used a sucker rig before but hit it pretty good. That catfish rod can really yank some deep meat. This is the first year Ive had one. |
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Posts: 18
Location: White Bear lake, MN | 7 Islands-
Thanks for the info. Your rig sounds good. I'll happily toss my bag of rubber bands in the garbage.
Do you crimp the flouro leader or use a knot? If a knot, what kind?
Huey |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | Hey Howie-
What line do you use? Mono or superbraid in that deep water?
Cory
Hey congrats on the action! Us desk jockeys are jealous! |
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Posts: 236
| Can we get a pic of this? having a little trouble picturing it.
thanks |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | Howie, I think the rubber band would have the same effect as the hole in the mouth. There still wouldn't be too much resistance. I will give the hole in the yap a try this weekend though. One other thing I was thinking as far as the hook goes, I may tie a small # 6 hook onto the shaft of the treble hook to use for an anchor for the hook. This wouldn't bother the sucker as much, and would pull out pretty easy, I believe.
I can't wait to hit the water tomorrow! |
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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | Jasons Smiths Idea of using a small safety pin with the barrel swivel passed through the small opening of the pin is an excellent alternative to passing the line through a hole in the lip.Just make sure you LIGHTLY attach the safety pin to the suckers lip.I just dont like adding any more hardware than I have to because of the type of lakes I fish, but im sure it would work well in most cases..
In answer to another question: Im using 100# flouro tied with a knot- NO CRIMPS. Our sucker bite has gone south with the continued warming trend in Vilas County, but will update the rigs effectiveness when the water cools back down and hope any of you guys that try it will also. |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | Finally got a chance to use this rig yesterday. Looks great in the water, as I don't have a big piece of metal bent off the side of the sucker. Didn't get any fish with the warmer weater. Matter of fact didn't even raise a fish. One question though, is there a certain way that you are taking the sucker out of the water to put in the baitwell when moving from spot to spot w/o the sucker ripping the line from it's mouth. I had it happen to both of my suckers yesterday. I suppose they normally aren't on the hook for 9 hours. They are usually consumed a bit faster. Thanks for the rig idea Howie. It works and looks great. I think I will solder some saftey pins to the hooks though. They seem to hold better than just imbedding the one hook in the sucker.
Good lungen,
Joel |
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| 7I, I also like the rig very,very much but it happened to me too! The lip kept ripping off! I must be rigging wrong? Please help! I was up in your area and moved only one small fish and found one of the boat launchs blocked by vehicles with no-trailers,any idea`s,very poor sportsman ship by some individuals!Just can`t understand things some do! Handy |
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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | If you lift the sucker on the line and he is shaking in the air for any anount of time I can see how the flouro would rip through the lip.When you make the hole go back farther on lip section and use a small tool to make a small hole LOL.On any sucker rig I never like waving the suckers in the air when rigged. > Reel them up ,place hand under sucker and place in live well. Should never have the problem. Glad you like how they look in the water. Yes, the sucker bite slowed dramatically as water temps rose over the last several days for me aslo. Not much we can do about that. What lake was the landing blocked at? Ill see that it doesnt happen again. Thanks for the feedback. Sunday evening Talked with at least 20 people at the local watering hole. NO hits on suckers by any boat. |
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| 7I,it was the 4I lake! OOne car even had ohio plates! |
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Posts: 1189
Location: Bagley,MN 56621 | my feable attempt at tying these rigs up. I first tried to use my favorite Bucher power knot...absolutely impossible. Then tried a clich, can be done but a real bugger. The best I have found with 100# fluoro is a polymer and just as was stated before, attach it to something solid, lube it up and pull like crazy!!
2 pics, not the greatest with the cheapo digital i am using, but should do.
Howie, are these looking ok....just like you are using?
each has roughly 30" (depends how many times I screwed up the knot and had to re-tie lol) of 100# fluoro with a barrel swivel on one end and treble on the other.
Attachments
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 fluoro 1.jpg (39KB - 206 downloads)
fluoro 2.jpg (66KB - 180 downloads)
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| could someone, if not too much trouble, get a picture of a sucker rigged up in this fashoin? i think that would expalin it alot better than words. thanks
mm |
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Posts: 7123
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | NUT,
Hoping to do some filming while up north with Worrall this weekend, will try to get it on film.
And btw, for all reading this: go with floro or coated wire, a sharp edged wire WILL cut through the lip of the sucker! Causing either a lost sucker, or one barely held on by the back hook! I lost 2 this weekend by using the wrong wire. Nothing worse than just watching your sucker swim away un-molested.
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| thanks!! |
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Posts: 167
Location: IL | I used the rig last weekend,had a small fish grab the sucker under the belly. Never got a hook in her. I just make a small hole in the suckers lip with the hook and crimp aluminum sleaves on after the line is run threw the lips. Its alot faster than trying to tie a not with a flopping sucker. We went 2 for 4 Saturday and Sunday on Oxbow. We did net a 33" on a 17" sucker just by lifting her to the surface next to the boat. I like the rig on a 10" sucker,anything bigger leaves to much free area for the musky to grab. Im useing 2/0 Gamakatsu trebles. |
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Posts: 376
Location: Cudahy, Wisconsin | How many times do you guys set the hook? |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | The way I've seen you set it, I would say at least 10-12 times.  |
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Posts: 5874
| hehehe. Oh, another that does the Gregger crappie set! |
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Posts: 1189
Location: Bagley,MN 56621 | *rolls eyes*
and you wonder why dave wanted that 40 in the net so quick last thursday??
talk about a wimpy hookset...you shouyld have eaten wheaties for breakfast instaed of eggs/sausage..think it made you soft hehe |
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Posts: 5874
| Wasn't nothing wrong with that hook set. Ask the Extreme One or DaveJ if I get enough power in my hook set! Did you notice I only set one time? Broke the band, pulled the hooks out of the sucker, and drove them home in the ski's mouth all in one tremendous rip! Only thing I was worried about was getting tangled with your line you didn't reel in, and Dave knocking off the fish with the net again! LOL |
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| I noticed your flourocarbon rig and wanted to tell about my experience with a similar rig. Two years ago, I tied several quick strike rigs with 80 and 100 lb. flourocarbon. The first fish I landed went great. The second fish was a 38" true musky that was quickly released. When I went to put a new bait on the rig, a 2/0 treble hook was gone along with several inches of leader. I never even saw what happened, but the hook was likely in the fishes mouth. Now I make them with wire again. |
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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | Thanks for the updates : Got off the water tonite at 7pm Got a nice very fat 46" on the rig for Milwaukee Muskies Member Dr.Harold Jacobsen of Milwaukee. Let me add a couple things here First : All flourocarbon is not created equal- Seagur Is the best and toughfest Use 100# test. Second: Its not about flourocarbon which I only use on very clear lakes. Seven Strand will work quite nicely just punch the lip hole a little further back to avoid abrasion or better yet use coated wire. Three:ANY quick strike rig will occassionally lose a fish just as any lure will.This will be no excepetion,but todate it has been very very effective for me..Four: THis is the second fall livebait season Ive used this rig on and Im totally convinced the sucker swims more naturally,will stay active longer nad attract more hits.Five after trying the safety pin lip hook suggested by Jason - I dont like it. It gets in the way .The hole placed in the lips center and the leader riding high on the sucker is working the very best.Six: I have some concern using fluoro on very small suckers because it might be abraded by the muskies teeth if he inhales the whole sucker.One report of that has reached me. I have not seen it myself, but it could happen. If that worries you use seven Strand. Seven: Im setting the hook from much deeper depths than most and have landed some very large fish from deep water on the rig.If it works in those conditions it will work for shallower applications aas you should get more force into the set from a shorter distance. Todays Musky barely mouthed the sucker and Dr. Jacobsen hit it immediately from 34'.We landed it and were able to use the same sucker for 6 more hours -thats a light hit!-thanks for the feedback.Whatever leader material you decide on I would advise rigging the sucker the same way because you are maximizing your hook setting ability. |
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| I use this rig when fishing suckers 18 - 24 inches...
http://home.att.net/~d.fenner/page16.html |
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