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Posts: 1220
| I’m starting to work on a new article and looking for a few hints to chase around. I’ve posted many times about what I believe to be a “massive ” number of musky caught by accident. To a smaller extent, it’s the kids with a jig’n minnow, but it’s mostly the bass guys who often clean our clock when a bass event occurs on the same day on the same water. I’m always thinking I have made an error: bait too big, line too heavy, rod too heavy. Now, I’m not talking about a week at LOTW, Or a trophy hunt on LSC, I’m just talking about a lot of lakes a lot of times and wondering why we aren’t doing anything like the downsizing that may be appropriate. So, what are your thoughts? |
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Posts: 1023
| I've seen that trend, too. I think bass guys get a lot of musky because they are using baits that get into the slop. Slop that is difficult to hit effectively with traditional musky baits. I customized a few baits to dig in there and gotten decent results. Often when musky fishing, you run and gun to find active fish. Those bass baits get those neutral fish to eat. At least that is what I think and I've seen some decent results. It is just hard to pick apart weeds and pockets when musky fishing because I need to change my frame of mine concerning how I'm going to fish. It isn't like hitting a weedline with a bucktail/topwater and covering ground. It is more finesse.
I look forward to seeing your article! Great topic! |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | early pre-season spring muskies like to chase and hit shadow raps twitched and paused. always see and usually catch a few while fishing for pre-spawn SMB's ... |
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Posts: 70
| Muskie will eat smaller lures, many a bass boat get slimed every year. A few lures I have seen them eat include ribbon tail power worms, small and medium size plugs, and especially the punch rigs which can go straight into the weeds. |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | I think when that type of bite is on, it’s more of a result of the where they are fishing versus the bait being used. Bass guys will tend to be fishing shallower where the majority of Musky guys (especially on urban/pressured lakes) are fishing edges and breaklines, as that’s what most do. |
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| A few years ago I was doing boat checks at the landing and two guys came in that had been out before dawn fishing for crappie. They had a nice batch of crappies but talked about catching some nice small mouth on a tiny crappie jig and minnow and having to take the lure away from muskies plus having a couple muskies take jig and all. I have had that happen a couple times early in the year, fishing for crappie and had musky take the whole rig, including one musky that was a beast. Why a fish that big would take a tiny minnow and jig when there were lots of small perch around, I don't understand but it happens. |
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Posts: 156
Location: Alexandria, MN | Ever eat so much you swear you can't eat another bite.... until someone throws you a bite-sized snickers? Yeah - me too. I have a hunch fish are the same way. |
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Posts: 2237
Location: SE, WI. | In my estimation, the Bass guy simply has more patience to slow down and fish Precise. Hence, the jig and Pig, OR, Jig and Creature, plays a big roll in being more productive than the Average musky guy Chuckin/Runnin/Gunnin, large jumbo baits. Most musky guys just don't have the Patience to slow down and pick apart a spot /W/ a Jig, or any other small presentation, thoroughly!!! JD |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | jdsplasher - 12/28/2018 1:24 PM
In my estimation, the Bass guy simply has more patience to slow down and fish Precise. Hence, the jig and Pig, OR, Jig and Creature, plays a big roll in being more productive than the Average musky guy Chuckin/Runnin/Gunnin, large jumbo baits. Most musky guys just don't have the Patience to slow down and pick apart a spot /W/ a Jig, or any other small presentation, thoroughly!!! JD
good point ^ |
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Posts: 8721
| It's a hard habit to break. I've lost count of how many fish we've caught throwing a few more casts in an area we already fished through. The light went on for me a few years back then one of the guides up at AML said "You know this lake. You can fish for hours and see nothing, and then all of a sudden there are fish everywhere. Did you ever wonder if they're everywhere all the time? A lesson driven home by a 53"er caught out of the back of the boat on the way out of a spot three people casted through for a good 15 minutes. We were all throwing blades. How many casts went right over its head before the last one? |
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Posts: 343
| I have pretty fair success catching muskies on a 1/8 oz owner jighead attached to a zoom brushhog. It is more productive during certain parts of the year, but I've had some success throughout the year. I use to be laughed at by many muskie guys, but I've noticed a few of the same people often have a rod rigged up with this or a similar setup. |
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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | true tiger tamer - 12/28/2018 2:26 PM
I have pretty fair success catching muskies on a 1/8 oz owner jighead attached to a zoom brushhog. It is more productive during certain parts of the year, but I've had some success throughout the year. I use to be laughed at by many muskie guys, but I've noticed a few of the same people often have a rod rigged up with this or a similar setup.
This used to be called Creature fishing. |
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Posts: 176
| Steve,
I remember you giving your Creature fishing talk at the Madison Fishing Expo at the long since demolished Holiday in down on the Southeast side of Madison.
I think it's time to dust off that seminar again.
As I recall some of your highlights were that your dad gave you a hand full of jigs and plastics and told you that's what you had to fish with, and it was a great way to learn structure before the modern electronics we now have.
Kevin |
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Posts: 44
| I agree with JD about the patience required to dissect cover. With a lifetime of bass fishing in the review mirror I learned the importance of picking apart even small pieces of structure. Casting angles can also be critical. That said, I think there is more to the small bait phenomenon.
A major consideration, in my estimation, is forage base. If the primary forage is shad then small baits are probably the rule and not the exception. Shad come in a variety of sizes but most are less than 4” long, especially if we’re talking threadfins. Schools of shad form swirling masses when under attack by predators. A lone individual, separated from the school, represents an easy target.
Water clarity is another factor. In clear water I believe smaller baits present the proper “illusion” from a distance to trigger predators. Alternately, dingier water may require larger baits to provide the same sort of visual stimulus.
Small baits have been responsible for some impressive catches over the years. Look at the popularity of the AC lure in Ohio. This is a bass bait that muskie fishermen retrofitted to meet their needs. Cory Allen has written extensively on the utility of small baits and I credit him for the limited success I have met since becoming a muskie fanatic.
The largest bait that I make now is all of 6” and my standard crankbait is 4.5”. I am currently working on a batch of 3” crankbaits that I am itching to test this spring. Basically, I fish bass lures that are built muskie tough.
From an energy conversion standpoint, it makes no sense that a 40” class fish would expend so much energy to chase down a tiny energy packet but I am convinced from many conversations with crappie and bass fishermen that it occurs with regularity. But then they are muskies and the one thing I know for sure is they do what they want to do when they want to do it.
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Posts: 2237
Location: SE, WI. | sworrall - 12/28/2018 2:28 PM true tiger tamer - 12/28/2018 2:26 PM I have pretty fair success catching muskies on a 1/8 oz owner jighead attached to a zoom brushhog. It is more productive during certain parts of the year, but I've had some success throughout the year. I use to be laughed at by many muskie guys, but I've noticed a few of the same people often have a rod rigged up with this or a similar setup. This used to be called Creature fishing. It Still is by us Old Folk;) JD
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Posts: 1220
| I’m trying to examine possibilities as to whether it’s often a good idea to just leave all the musky gear in your truck and just plain fish with a bass outfit? Not as a rule, but as an option when you really know you are mostly going for a sub-40 inch catch? Let’s say a light bait caster or spinning outfit with 30 pound braid and a four foot 30 pound floor leader tied with back to back uni-knots. I’m seeing boats using that for Tarpon, Cobia, Black Tip Sharks, as well as big Reds and Snook in salt water and I’m, quite honestly, scratching my head! |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | That crank bait that S.I.M.H. makes is kick butt. |
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Posts: 556
| I catch 3-4 Musky on Jig and Minnow walleye fishing every year.... And when we chase LMB in our area--- we target the bass in the reeds with small spinner baits--- Again we catch several musky in these same areas on the bass size spinner baits..... I think a Angler could easily fish year round for musky on downsized tackle and do well--- BUT-- most time the musky we catch are smaller fish in the 30-40" range doing this.... |
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Posts: 16
| Here is an article written in Muskies Inc in 1999 regarding "slop fishing" when I was a kid. I caught so many muskies on largemouth bass spinner baits which was a result of downsizing my lure presentation and getting it up in the thick of things.
http://walleyes.org/muskies/osbourne.htm |
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Posts: 714
| My Observation: put 100 guys (tournament) on a good bass/musky lake with a decent population of 40" plus fish using muskie tactics and they will catch a lot more muskies than a 100 person bass tournament on the same waters, I have seen this played out a fair amount of times fishing in both of these situations. That said on small fish Muskie waters where a really good one is 40" you could have a different result..or in specific micro situations the bass sized stuff can perform better.
Certainly in MN this is the case...not saying that bigger is better ALL of the time but it is most of the time...at least here.
Observation # 2 : As musky fishing evolved larger lures in general (vs bass sized) became more popular and took over the anglers tackle-boxes (at great expense) so I think it is safe to say that had they not worked better no one would have stayed with that program...just on results alone not even factoring cost and effort to present.
Nothing works all the time... I do agree that we fish around them most of the time once we get preferred locations dialed in.
Edited by bturg 12/28/2018 10:56 PM
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Posts: 363
Location: SW Ohio | We see that a lot of the bass guys catch more muskies than those of us targeting them on our local lake especially in the spring and early summer. Last year the two 50" fish out of our lake were caught by saugeye fishermen using 1/4" jigs and light line.
This year I'll be starting out with my lighter rods (MH), larger chatterbaits with trailers and medium sized spinnerbaits to hit the shallower and more covered areas. We don't have a lot of grass but lots of fall downs and flotsam that stacks up on the shore and in coves after the spring rains. Hopefully, my hookup rate will go up. |
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Posts: 426
| Over the last I don't know how many years a 3 in. knock off of the AC Spinner 00 crank bait has produced the most Muskies number wise in our boat. This bait is produced "Musky Tuff". BUT the larger fish seem to prefer baits in the 5-7 in range. These are Ohio fish that feed on a Shad population. Could be why the 30 somethings love it year after year. If I was a tourney guy here I'd never put it down during a tournament. |
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Posts: 536
Location: deephaven mn | Lots of good observations here, JD splasher makes a point about bass fisherman slowing down. I see it the bass guys in mid summer are fishing the same deep weed edge as I am but instead of fishing the whole structure the will fish a spot. I've seen them catch a fish that I new was there, now I go HMMMM, downsizing would have worked that time.
I know i guy with shoulder problems that throws a jig and plastic alot he with catch fish over 40" but he gets alot of 28" to 30" as well. I personally will pass on a 30 incher for a chance at a 48"
Noboby has mentioned muskies that are caught by bass fiherman on bass that they have hooked. And this is fairly common. Maybe this could be a part of your article Junkman. Kinda of the saltwater approach catch a bass and leave it struggling to catch your 48" muskie.
thanks
Edited by kap 12/29/2018 8:38 AM
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Posts: 1204
Location: Walker, MN | There are more accidental muskies caught in June on my home waters than by muskie fisherman. We have caught quite a few on Jig-and-minnow, shad raps and husky jerks. Large gravel bars and points near the main basin are typical areas where this seems to occur. We are catching more muskies every year in June targeting these areas too.
Someone could write an article on muskie fishing for bass too. Most of us have caught some real hogs on 7"-8" gliders and topwaters. Yes, walleyes and smallies too. |
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Posts: 735
| Take a bass type of flipping stick, replace the handle with a full sized musky handle and presto! A medium action musky rod! A bass flipping rod with a musky handle would balance nicely with a swim bait sized bait caster such as the revo beast, a Lews super duty wide, or even a 5500c3. A rig like this would be perfect for bass fishing muskies, and a tool we can use. Looking forward to the article when it comes out. Kdawg |
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Posts: 1220
| Thanks for the feedback, good stuff to work with. I know the trick will be weaving around the default prejudice against targeting musky with gear likely to produce mortality from ten different causes, but I’m confident there’s a needle to be threaded here. The title may not be “bass fishing for musky,” but it’s going to be a serious look at downsizing that may be inappropriate for Canada and Minnesota or the Larry, but a terrific idea a whole lot of the time. |
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Posts: 1671
| I would think you could downsize for any water considered "numbers" waters. Beef up if you are fishing "trophy" waters. But, thats just my thinking which can be a half bubble off center at times. |
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Posts: 50
| Big bass and muskie definitely like the same area at times. I've noticed that the key is ample bait and structure. Earlier in the year it might be an inside weed edge with sand. Late summer, it's more of a deep weed edge bite. Access to deep water nearby makes it golden. Plastics worked slowly on the bottom have worked best for me. |
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Posts: 718
| That's how the Bondy Bait came into existence about 18 years ago now. Jigging for walleye and bass down deep on 6-10 lb line and getting musky. |
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Posts: 114
| Years ago, the hottest bait on Pewaukee was a Bagley BD04 crank bait. I personally boated a 47 on one.
They were certainly more cost effective compaired to what we all use these days. Maybe time to break them out again.
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Posts: 343
| I looked through my Muskies Inc. releases and found I started bass jig fishing in the fall of 2004. I've caught 43 tigers and trues on the brushhog setup. I have 3 tigers from 40"-46", and 12 purebreds from 40"-47.5" of which 4 were 45" or bigger. The vast majority of my total number were purebreds. 34.9% of all my brushhog catches were 40" or bigger so I don't consider it to be a small fish only technique. While it some might consider it a "creature" bait, it is considerably lighter than most of the rigs I've seen or read about because like I wrote earlier I use a 1/8 ounce Owner jighead which I hook my brushhog to. It might not be as effective on northern muskie lakes as I fish primarily southern pures and western tigers. Just my 2 cents. |
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Posts: 431
| back in my walleye trolling days on LSC I was bit off frequently on crawler harnesses. I bet I got more musky bites on those than I ever have casting big musky baits, which is how I primarily fish the last several years. |
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Posts: 790
Location: North Central IL USA | true tiger tamer - 12/28/2018 2:26 PM
I have pretty fair success catching muskies on a 1/8 oz owner jighead attached to a zoom brushhog.
Which jighead? |
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Posts: 343
| 1/8 ounce Owner Sledheads, like the keepers, hook length, sharpness, and strength. |
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