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Posts: 74
| After many Muskie I have a couple preferences in presentations for large fish. I am interested in what other successful anglers have found. Here is my current thinking- medium cast length(~30 yards), dead slow retrieves, LARGE lures. My personal best fish came on a 10” phantom 20 yards out on a 30 yard cast moving very slow and steady cadence ~5 feet down over 25 foot deep in open water near the center of the lake with no cover. I have missed fish that bit at the end of long casts and hook up much higher on medium length casts. I catch most fish near the boat or in the 8. I throw large bucktails, magnum or pounder dawgs, large gliders mostly. I’m learning trolling but not nearly as successful yet. Any info/stories appreciated thanks fellas. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Long bomb cast for me... with precision... I like to cover more water with less work. |
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Posts: 141
Location: Minnetonka | I don't think there's a one size fits all formula. More important than all the factors you mentioned, is understanding why large fish set up where they do. If you understand the intricacies of the spot on the spot, and under which conditions big fish hunt there, speed and size become less important than simply presenting "food" in the correct orientation for a fish that's set up to feed. Of course, water temps and weather patterns still play a role in what you throw. For your PB, that fish may have been a roaming opportunist, or it could have been hunting a school of bait relating to a bottom transition. Important to try to understand why she was there when she was.
Edited by MuskyMatt71 11/28/2018 3:06 PM
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Posts: 44
Location: Ohio | I say long casts to give more time to trigger following fish and various triggering tactics during the same retrieve. |
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Posts: 864
Location: NE Ohio | there is no such thing as a bad cast in fishing !!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Oh,.... I have fished with guys that 1 out of 20 casts resulted in a Birds nest from He!! or in a tree, or shore line rocks... I used to be this guy.
Precision casting is an Art form... Not every cast is worth the work if you can't put it where it should be...… Long bomb, off of the Structure will give you a better chance at contacting an active fish...… Lure in the water more often will get Bit ! Fact !
So ,yes there is a such thing as a bad Cast.
Edited by Top H2O 11/28/2018 9:48 PM
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Posts: 1220
| Clearly this doesn’t always apply, but a person who consistently casts ten percent further every time fishes more water than another angler. IMHO, it’s actually better water the farther away from the boat. Naturally, this doesn’t fit casting to a particular spot on a spot when accurately hitting it trumps the previous statement. |
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Posts: 74
| Junkman - 11/29/2018 6:32 AM
Clearly this doesn’t always apply, but a person who consistently casts ten percent further every time fishes more water than another angler. IMHO, it’s actually better water the farther away from the boat. Naturally, this doesn’t fit casting to a particular spot on a spot when accurately hitting it trumps the previous statement.
While the farther caster is still retrieving, the shorter caster is already into the next cast. I feel the water close to the boat is better. Making passes along a structure using shorter casts, the farther water can be reached on the next boat pass. Interesting of the topics casting distance, retrieve speed, lure size, seems that people have more definite opinions on casting distance. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Big and slow, small and fast, somewhere in between. Long casts, short casts. All have their time and place. Each has a different Return on Investment (ROI) under different circumstances. There are times when I think small and fast is best... and pending conditions I may incorporate short, precise casts or long bombs. Learn to use several presentations and apply them appropriately rather than putting all your eggs in one basket. That's my recommendation for targeting large fish.... along with MuskyMatt71's input above. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Personal observation is it's not so much how far the cast might or might not go, it's where the boat is in relationship to the fish location and whether a precise few square feet is targeted. Speed of retrieve depends on that location and the presentation selected to try to get a strike response based upon current conditions.
Ask Slamr about that rock. There's always a fish by that rock. |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I'd tend to agree here...for me, much of this is structure dependent and how you fish that structure. Fishing heavy weeds, it'll be short casts with very precise targets. Topwater over a reef with lots of undulations, big rocks, weed clumps here and there, I might be a little more open to longer casts so long as the lure stays weed free. If I fish a long bar but am casting parallel to the drop off, I'll send it out there a long way.
Just a few different examples of how things might change based upon how you fish, or as Steve Worrall stated it, location of the boat as it pertains to fish location.
Steve
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Posts: 612
| Usually the longer the cast the better. However there's a place for short pinpoint cast as well. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | spot specific, as others have said, time and place for bomb casts and also short casts.. depends on the structure and where we think the fish are holding.... |
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Posts: 74
| Open water basin structure, no weeds or cover. Open water fish inside turns, basin corners, saddle areas etc. Open water fish feeding on shad schooling baitfish. The first post mentions it, guess the subject does not-my fault. I go out away from shoreline cover. Bigger fish turn up more frequently for me this way.
Edited by Muskies247 11/29/2018 3:25 PM
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Posts: 1220
| While I readily grant or agree with a lot of reasons listed to more carefully land a bait in a precise fashion, I’ll remain a defender of longer casts in several situations. First, I would differ with 247 on the fine (maybe minor) point of the shorter caster already on his next cast. The longer caster has his bait moving through the water for more minutes of his day, and that alone can be a factor in his favor. I’m also a believer in boat-shy, boat-aware, boat-seeing-hearing fish being spooked by the approach of a vessel or, maybe, sound of a bow-mount. If you really have the ability (and/or) the right rod to put a bait consistently 20% further than your partner, I think you’ll outfish him on a lot of days. That in no way means you have to be dumb about when the bomb cast is the worst possible idea. But, generally, the bait in the best water for the longest time wins, which of course, is why people troll. |
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Posts: 164
| It's amazing how far you can cast with these big baits and long rods, especially when you figure out proper casting technique without contorting your body in every direction. With that said I like to make long casts. One thing I found out this October is I have a horrible hooking percentage on jerkbaits. I have bagged two fish on jerkbaits and one was boat side and the other was on a short cast close to the boat. I use Hellhounds quite a bit and you can launch those baits. I lost four muskie this October on jerkbaits and they all were on really long casts and hit far from the boat. Each one was hooked and brought about halfway in before it shook off. I realize this could be a number of factors besides the long cast but I definitely understand what you are saying about shorter casts with jerkbaits. |
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Posts: 74
| colinj8899 - 11/29/2018 7:09 PM
It's amazing how far you can cast with these big baits and long rods, especially when you figure out proper casting technique without contorting your body in every direction. With that said I like to make long casts. One thing I found out this October is I have a horrible hooking percentage on jerkbaits. I have bagged two fish on jerkbaits and one was boat side and the other was on a short cast close to the boat. I use Hellhounds quite a bit and you can launch those baits. I lost four muskie this October on jerkbaits and they all were on really long casts and hit far from the boat. Each one was hooked and brought about halfway in before it shook off. I realize this could be a number of factors besides the long cast but I definitely understand what you are saying about shorter casts with jerkbaits.
Yes heartbreaker! So 30 yards (medium cast) is enough with certain baits (for me). Now I can easily throw most baits 60+ yards which here near the Atlantic Ocean the surf casters would call a short cast. Long cast is a relative term. Still only seeing comments on cast length. No comments on bait size or retrieve speed. |
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Posts: 2015
| Re-read jlong’s post... there your answer for speed and size. What’s a giant fish to you? I’ve got some ok fish (52”+) on really small baits (4-5”).. one fat 52” ate an ultra slow tiny 3” topwater.. but generally small equals fast for me ...burning tiny tails can be deadly at times. Different lakes and conditions call for different presentations.
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Top H2O - 11/29/2018 11:01 PM
Picking apart a Spot on the Spot was not the question... A very different approach to this situation.
I will long bomb cast maybe 70% of my time... and the lure IS IN THE WATER MORE TIME thru out the day than short casts ...Boat position is key
Retrieve speed.... depends on the lure. Topwater,.. fast, slow, pause... repeat .. Mid summer.. bucktail … burn It ! slower at night.
Crank, jerk, glider, ect… same, fast, slow, pause.. repeat. Make your Lure dance like a White guy at the Disco... very erratic…. not smooth like some of my Black buddies...
Lure size in open water, Large, very large... Or small ?! After all it is a Stupid Muskie !
No clear cut answerer. |
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Posts: 2269
Location: SE, WI. | Providing that your boat is in proper position for the given spot, It has been proven that the shorter cast in that 50-65 foot range, is your most productive cast length. Most fish strike first 10' of your retrieve, then last 5 ' at boat side. I would say the Bucktail, jerk bait, gliders and crank, all apply here! Also, the shorter cast with these baits, help with proper presentation and easier to control, and be in tune with, your subsurface baits.......then there is topwater.... Topwater baits for me, seem to be more productive with a bomb cast, as it takes a fish longer to lock on to the sonics, view, then strike bait, than it takes a subsurface lure. JD
Edited by jdsplasher 11/30/2018 10:02 PM
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Posts: 74
| jdsplasher - 11/30/2018 9:55 PM
Providing that your boat is in proper position for the given spot, It has been proven that the shorter cast in that 50-65 foot range, is your most productive cast length. Most fish strike first 10' of your retrieve, then last 5 ' at boat side. I would say the Bucktail, jerk bait, gliders and crank, all apply here! Also, the shorter cast with these baits, help with proper presentation and easier to control, and be in tune with, your subsurface baits.......then there is topwater.... Topwater baits for me, seem to be more productive with a bomb cast, as it takes a fish longer to lock on to the sonics, view, then strike bait, than it takes a subsurface lure. JD
Definitely better hooking percentages and presentation without a doubt with shorter casts. I also prefer a bomb cast with topwaters as well. |
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Location: 31 | Lots of good information and I enjoyed reading all of these posts… no brainer that in clear water or with top water you should almost always be using longer casts as has already been covered.
One of the techniques that probably worked the best for us in dirty water (or especially by myself) was to get right on top of whatever we were fishing and have the guy in front running the boat making very precise 20-30’ (sometimes flipping with underhand casts) while the guy back just fended for himself… when a fish was caught (typically by the guy in front) we would just switch positions.
Obviously this would never work for a guide situation, but when 1-2 casters target large expensive weed beds with this method it can really shine. I use to do this primarily on large lakes/rivers like LOTW or the O back in the day... one of my summer muskie sayings; show me the biggest weed bed and I'll show you the biggest muskie.
Edited by Jerry Newman 12/2/2018 7:56 PM
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Cast length/retrieve speed/lure size-giant fish