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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Want to learn how Steve Herbeck builds and fishes his live bait Herbie rigs? Click on the link below, not the image!
Watch the VIDEO here!
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| Awesome rig and I use the rubber bands through the nasal passage to this day. Having said that I fail to see why in the word he feels the need to bend one of the hooks in a way that makes it impossible for that hook point to do the angler any good. Take a regular treble and skin it through the side of the sucker so all points face towards the head of the sucker and call it good. Stop bending one of the hook points it really makes no sense.
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Posts: 67
| I also use a rubber band through the nostril and wouldn't ever do it any different. I do bend a point down on each treble. I think it hangs the hooks well and prevents them from getting buried in the sucker on the hooksets and my hookup ratio is pretty high with two instead of three barbs |
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| I attended a seminar on live bait fishing with guide Rob Manthei earlier this year and he also heats and straightens one hook on each treble and that goes into the sucker. If I remember correctly, he wants the hooks to come out of the sucker on the hook set and just like the rubber band, those straight hooks are part of that. |
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | Maybe it's my new phone but the video does not pop up in the link. |
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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Cfollow - 11/11/2018 7:25 PM
Awesome rig and I use the rubber bands through the nasal passage to this day. Having said that I fail to see why in the word he feels the need to bend one of the hooks in a way that makes it impossible for that hook point to do the angler any good. Take a regular treble and skin it through the side of the sucker so all points face towards the head of the sucker and call it good. Stop bending one of the hook points it really makes no sense.
Herbie explains exactly what that hook accomplishes in detail in the video, and it does exactly what he describes. |
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| Todd, I could not get it to play either but after reading Steve's post, went back and instead of trying to click on the "play" arrow in the photo frame, go up to where Steve has the message, 'watch the video here' and click on" video here". Video plays fine from that link. Now that I figured out how to watch it, his reasoning on straightening the one hook is the same as Rob Manthei's.
Edited by North of 8 11/11/2018 10:18 PM
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | Still have not seen the video, that's on me but if he is bending the hook point that goes into the sucker straight back it's so that it comes out easier on the hookset which is critical. Having said that I straight reeled in a 38 in the net that never had a hook in it yesterday.
Edited by ToddM 11/12/2018 6:41 AM
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Location: Contrarian Island | I don't bend out one of the trebles either, seems silly to lose 33% of the hooking chances …. yes, I watched the vid and I have never done it that way and have good results...the rubber band thing is a pain in the butt to me as well... I use a size 6 walleye hook and it pops free just as easy as a rubber band and takes 90% less time to rig... win/win. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | BNelson - 11/12/2018 8:10 AM
I don't bend out one of the trebles either, seems silly to lose 33% of the hooking chances …. yes, I watched the vid and I have never done it that way and have good results...the rubber band thing is a pain in the butt to me as well... I use a size 6 walleye hook and it pops free just as easy as a rubber band and takes 90% less time to rig... win/win.
Think about the law in Canada dealing with hook numbers allowed and note the positioning of the hooks, what he said about bait condition, what happens with that rig when the sucker contacts stuff underwater, and what happens when the hooks are set. I can tell you from working with AML on their social and from time in the AML boats that it works really well and hooks up solidly. If you think about positioning of the hooks, one isn't losing any percentage of the hooking chances and in fact is probably increasing the chances, which his results confirm.
Herbie came up with the rig after using about every combination one could think of.
And he isn't using a rubber band all the time. He says when and why in the video. |
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Posts: 93
| https://youtu.be/sXQicIfnNpM
Here is a new video by Pete Maina on the same rig, since he uses it too. It's a bit easier to follow than the one posted above. And he mentions that Herbie actually "stole" it from salt water fishermen.
Edited by undersized 11/12/2018 9:28 AM
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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Pretty much nothing in fishing hasn't been done, what Herbie did was come up with a Muskie rig, refined it, and there's a heck of a lot more coming in the next few videos as to the whys and whens, etc.
What he said was the rubber band idea was a saltwater technique, that's it. |
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Posts: 668
Location: mercer wi | Original herbie had a soldered close pin |
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Posts: 104
| When I watched the video my interpretation is that one reason the hook is bent is that if the other hooks on that treble come in contact with a rock/ stick the bent hook gets pushed backward but will not dislodge from the sucker. If a non bent hook is pushed backwards far enough it dislodges from the sucker. Conceptually that seems correct to me. |
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| why does he stagger the hooks? they T-bone the thing perfectly nearly every time. put both hooks smack in the middle of the sucker and be done with it. |
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| upnortdave - 11/12/2018 10:44 AM Original herbie had a soldered close pin Yep I still have an original Herbie sucker rig with a soldered close pin. I enjoyed the video. Thanks for posting Steve. When I think of sucker rigs, literally there is a million different ways one can make a sucker rig. There is no wrong or right way to do it really. If you have confidence in the way you rig your sucker, you will catch fish. I started playing around making my own sucker rigs. My technique involves a hole puncher used for bottle caps. I pierce a small hole in the lip of the sucker, then break a rubber band and tie a simple knot to the sucker. I have also caught a bunch of fish on BNelson's rigs as well and those work good too. |
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Posts: 32800
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Cfollow - 11/12/2018 12:11 PM
why does he stagger the hooks? they T-bone the thing perfectly nearly every time. put both hooks smack in the middle of the sucker and be done with it.
He has explained that to me a couple times and will again in the next video. Idea there is hooks in both sides of the face, if I remember correctly, with one complimenting, not fighting the other during the stress of the battle. He'll clarify or correct me eventually. |
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Location: oswego, il | Muskies don't perfectly t-bone sucker every time. |
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Posts: 1220
| I like the Herbie rig too, I even like Herbie better. Yes, there’s times when the bait needles get hard to hold in the cold, I likely lose two of the four or five I carry each time, and some of the rubber bands I’ve brought along will make me cuss worse than Herbie. As to bending the hook, you can do it without heat, and if it’s going to break, it’ll happen right away. But, it allows the other points on the treble to ride perfectly in a hookup mode. I really think all the rigs are really fine except that “hellcano harness,” which is beyond my skills. The secret for me is to know, absolutely, positively, that a fish is moving away from you at hookset and if you ever see the sucker again...it was a crummy hookset. Last, and I’m old and tech resistant, but I couldn’t watch the darn video no matter where I pressed my finger?? |
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Posts: 368
Location: On the River | I have been using the original Herbie Rig since it came out in a article back in the 90's
His original rig used safety pins soldered the treble hooks. I still use that rig with rubber bands and have caught hundreds of muskies on his rig. |
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| Junkman - 11/12/2018 2:29 PM
I like the Herbie rig too, I even like Herbie better. Yes, there’s times when the bait needles get hard to hold in the cold, I likely lose two of the four or five I carry each time, and some of the rubber bands I’ve brought along will make me cuss worse than Herbie. ?
If you bend an 8-10 inch section of leader wire 60/40, pass the longer part thru the nose and slip the rubber band on before the shorter sections enter its about 100X easier to floss the nasal capacity than with the stock bait needle. Its just more to hold onto. Get the clear rubber bands at Walgreens/CVS in the girl's hair care section if the ones you are buying are giving you fits... |
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Posts: 221
| Anything with rubber bands is a nightmare. No thanks. |
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Posts: 536
Location: deephaven mn | exactly what wire is Herbie using tie this rig?
I think he said braided wire? and if so what gauge?
thanks |
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Posts: 38
Location: Lakeville, MN | Thank you Steve Worrall and Herbie for making and sharing this video, and Herbie for sharing all those tips. I started making my own rigs this fall - I was doing a few things wrong, or at least sub-optimally. Posts like this are why I love visiting this site. |
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| Several folks have mentioned that the earliest rigs had a safety pin soldered to the hooks. I have an image in my head and was wondering if someone has a photo of this rig they could post? Just wondering what it looked like. |
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Posts: 574
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Darn, I have the safety pin version up at the cabin, but I won't see it again until spring. |
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Location: Vilas | kap - 11/13/2018 3:55 PM
exactly what wire is Herbie using tie this rig?
I think he said braided wire? and if so what gauge?
thanks
sevenstrand in either 60# or 90# |
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Posts: 1449
Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Thanks, Steve. Honestly one of the most worthwhile set of information I’ve seen in years. Lots of good stuff there. Thanks and I look forward to more from Herbie. |
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Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | Take a look at the sucker pic attached. Does your rig get the fish that hit this sucker? If not re-look at how you rig. Notice Herbie style through the nostrils . . . but also Herbie style under the spine between the dorsal fin and tail. No harm to the sucker and all hook points for use. This particular rig is what we call a quick set circle rig but a treble hook would work the same.
We got this tail biting fish, a 43 incher.
Edited by muskymeyer 11/19/2018 9:31 AM
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 Sucker-HitAndRig.JPG (48KB - 469 downloads)
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Posts: 368
Location: On the River | Here is a picture of a safety pin soldered
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IMG_0789.JPG (120KB - 485 downloads)
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| Thanks for the photos. Looks like you would need some dexterity to connect those but effective once connected. |
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Posts: 368
Location: On the River | They connect fairly easy the key is to keep the heat away from the pin side when you solder or it will weaken the pin and make it difficult pierce the skin |
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Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | wisriverrat - 11/12/2018 7:52 PM
I have been using the original Herbie Rig since it came out in a article back in the 90's
His original rig used safety pins soldered the treble hooks. I still use that rig with rubber bands and have caught hundreds of muskies on his rig. There's no need to wrap wire on the safety pin. I soldered these up with Herbie many many years ago. He teed the treble then soldered the pin on flat side of the treble. Heat the shaft first and hold the pin with a hemostat. Little flux and a touch of solder is all that's needed. Teeing the hook helps prevent the hook from being set in the sucker.
I don't sucker fish much anymore but the original is hard to beat with real suckers (16+").
Less hardware the better. |
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Location: Already Gone | I was able to find one of my original Herbie Rigs and I'll try to post these pics.
Clean, simple, and very very effective....in the right hands. I still use them, and variations of them too.
Well said JC.
Edited by Mark Hoerich 11/21/2018 7:06 AM
(Original Herbie Rig 2 RS.jpg)
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Original Herbie Rig 2 RS.jpg (40KB - 370 downloads)
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Posts: 688
Location: Already Gone | Another pic, North of 8.
(Original Herbie Rig RS.jpg)
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Original Herbie Rig RS.jpg (20KB - 377 downloads)
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Posts: 688
Location: Already Gone | One more, nice clean hooks.
Thanks Steve for showing any videos with Herbie, or anyone else for that matter.
Always informative, and I for one happen to appreciate learning all I can about this stuff, even as an old timer here at 61.
(Original Herbie Rig 1 RS.jpg)
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Original Herbie Rig 1 RS.jpg (45KB - 370 downloads)
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Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | answering a few points questions for those of you;
for legal reasons in ontario you can only have 4 "points" per rig capable of hooking ( one reason the origional herbie rig only used 1 treble with the safty pin) so unless you want to use only 1 treble the attaching hook/pin must be straightened or bent straight down. same with using another hook regardless of size for your release method. (which does work well and is fairly inconspicuous when you can get away with it regulations wise)
the straight hook/pin attachment method keeps injury and /or skin tearing to the sucker (or whatever livebait you are using. down to the min. because of a missed set, contact with weeds or rocks,etc. and the health and vitality and keeping it that way are paramount to the over success. there can be no doubt a stick pin coming out the same way will release much easier than a hook stuck and needing to out against the bend,much like when one of the trebles get snagged in the side on a hookset..makes it tougher to break the rig cleanly free,and many times it doesnt.
if you are going to use the safty pin hook (it works great but i dont anymore just because the straight stick pins just flat out works near as flawlessly as anything i've tried) make sure you T the hooks and install safty pin in the" flat"or you could occasionally get a point buried on the set. also if you have the enclosure part of the pin at the rear of the hook instead of toward the eye you will get easier and more consistant releases.
i pretty much use the rubber bands in very clear water especially hard fished spots or lakes, flat sunny days, high pressure cold front days simply because it is so clean and outfishes over time more gaudy rigs. also for bigger, stronger baits 17-22".
in clear water a black rubber banded bait with a small 150# snap, 150# floro leader, 60-90# bronzed braided wire for the hook leads , #3 blackened mustads is just about as natural as a presentation you can put together.
in water with some color,stupid fish, or under typical great fall live bait conditions with n-n/w winds darker weather and some chop i prefer fuzzyz clip because of ease of attachment and ease of release especially smaller to med size baits 13-17".
the through the nose passage is what was conceived from saltwater guys but that was a bridle of 130#-200# braid and was not a breakaway and how i attached single hooks back in the single hook days. not untill i started using rubber bands did the breakaway concept come to light to me and transfer over into the quickset arena. regardless of what method you use to release or attach the hooks who cares,allmi know is the rigging i use is extremely effective . the breakaway concept is what really changed the game in quickset rigging and has undoubtably save hundreds of thousands of muskies over the last 25 years.
steve herbeck
Edited by Andy Myers Lodge 11/24/2018 11:30 AM
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Posts: 93
| The down time over the holidays gave me a chance to watch some fishing shows. I see that The Next Bite is on Amazon Prime now. Season 14, Episode 8 features fall sucker fishing in western Minnesota: aside from the fake hooksets and reaction shots, it's a fun show with a ton of action and nice muskies. At the same time it's a master-class in poor sucker rig selection: using a very thick nose hook and then the single leader for the two main hooks is set up so that it crosses over the back of the sucker. It's pretty hilarious as they somehow manage to bag 5 of 6 while only actually getting solid hooks into 2 of 6.
Fish 1: caught muskie still biting the sucker
Fish 2: caught muskie, sucker still attached to rig
Fish 3: lost muskie, sucker still attached to rig
Fish 4: lost muskie boatside, sucker still attached to rig, muskie swims into net
Fish 5: caught muskie, holding leader in its mouth, not hooked
Fish 6: caught muskie, sucker gone
Breaking the rig free of the sucker = better, cleaner hook-ups. The best rigs are the ones that manage the sucker well and break free immediately on hookset.
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Posts: 93
| Rig used on TNB.
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Posts: 93
| Don't try this at home.
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Posts: 20180
Location: oswego, il | Is there a musky TV show that doesn't feature a sucker show on milwestern mn?:-). As far as a small nose hook goes I have tried it too with success but preferred cutting up a small treble the size of a walleye hook because they have a bigger eyelet opening and move easier on the snap. |
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Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | you guys, herbie here,those of you who are interested...
this and most others in recent past postings on livebaiting and rigs ,questions,and comments has attracted some attention, more than many questions on other presentions. since i have been asked to do seminars at the chicago and milw. musky shows it was suggested that in stead of the typical canadian presentation seminars i do a complete and comprehensive livebait seminar... so i have one put together for you... one of unparalleled detail not only with rigging's but presentation options and concepts that up to this point have not been presented in detail, some never cept in my boat.
if you want to see and learn a few things that could possible take you to the next level with presentation options ,stop in ,put it on your seminar schedule, and and join in. it'll be fun. see ya there.
oh ya happy new years to all!!...and may it be a year with personal bests for all!
herbie |
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Posts: 93
| for legal reasons in ontario you can only have 4 "points" per rig capable of hooking (one reason the origional herbie rig only used 1 treble with the safty pin) so unless you want to use only 1 treble the attaching hook/pin must be straightened or bent straight down. same with using another hook regardless of size for your release method
Hi Herbie,
The only part in the Ontario regs that I have found about it says you can have 4 hooks per line, and it specifies that a treble hook only counts as one hook. (2019 Regulations, page 11.) I can't find any reference to hooking "points" as you describe. Wouldn't your interpretation of there being a limit of 4 "points" per rig also make most large crankbaits illegal too? I've been using a 2-treble rig with a walleye hook in the nose based on my read of the regulations - for a total of only 3 hooks on the rig.
It's really important to follow the rules and laws in Canada (and anywhere else), so I want to be sure to do so. Could you explain what mean about the legal reasons and hooking "points" a bit more?
Edited by undersized 12/28/2018 9:52 AM
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Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | undersize,
ya they dont need to make it confusing eah?
the 4 points per line relates to live baits only, its an old rule that i think but not sure was origionally meant to curtail multiple hooked handlines, trotlines and bankfishing lines known as "soaking".
with artificials you can only use 1 rod/line but can have either 3 (but i believe it's 4, would have to look it up) hooks,and a treble is considered 1 hook. so you can use sliders, stackers,or 3 ways etc. with multiple lures on 1 line if you wanted as long as the total number of hooks (not necessarily# of lures) doesnt exceed 4 (i think it is 4 but might be 3 be sure and check if your going to try)
the rig you describe would be illegal in Ontario. if using 2 trebles with out 1 straighted plus a nose hook regardless of size (as interpreted by a CO and we all know how that typically goes) you would have 7 hooks, with 2 trebles and one hook straight or bent pin you'd be at 5.
whether you can find it in the regs or not and/or if you look close enough you should be able to find it...somewhere, or call MNR for clarification but i know thats the way it is...in past have seen them checking rigs hanging in bobbies and years ago checking mine as explaining just what i have to you. could have changed but i seriously doubt it.
herbie
Edited by Andy Myers Lodge 12/28/2018 12:17 PM
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