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Posts: 1000
| *Assuming we successfully fight off the new rounds of muskie bills"
How do we turn this around? What's next?
Seems like we've been on the defense the last few years, and the fisheries specialists have said that they need to lay low on the muskie subject for a while. How do we turn this around and build some momentum in our favor? |
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Posts: 221
| Item #1 should be removing Bill Ingebrigtson from office. If you trace all of this back it starts with him every single year. Anti-business Republican beholden to wealthy lake association members. A total fraud. He needs to be defeated. |
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Posts: 390
| I truly believe that this first bill isn't supposed to pass. To quote another angler this is the trojan horse so to speak. There will be other slightly less aggressive bills that slide forward after this. The political logic is that the first bill is so egregious that the next will seem like a compromise. These next few bills will be the true goal. This is my thinking anyways, so its not nearly over yet. |
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Posts: 323
Location: Elk River, MN | bbeaupre - 3/26/2018 4:33 PM
I truly believe that this first bill isn't supposed to pass. To quote another angler this is the trojan horse so to speak. There will be other slightly less aggressive bills that slide forward after this. The political logic is that the first bill is so egregious that the next will seem like a compromise. These next few bills will be the true goal. This is my thinking anyways, so its not nearly over yet.
That's exactly what's going on. Throw enough bills and eventually one will stick.
We'd do the same thing as kids; ask our parents for $20 hoping they'd "compromise" and give us $5 when really that's all we wanted to start. |
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Posts: 3149
| Some of us have been saying this for years,,the antis put all their energy into attacking because they never have to defend anything. It's a nice philosophy to turn the other cheek but if the other guy keeps swinging you end up with two black eyes instead of one.
Enlist the snowmobile groups to push for a ban on holes in the ice no bigger then 20 inches, sure we probably wouldn't see that pass but they would have to put attention into defending it.
There already are former muskie lakes in Minnesota that the dnr has stopped stocking for many years now especially tiger lakes that data can be used to evaluate the post population of other species which eliminates any need for a push for some new study and supports creating new muskie lakes.
We need to me employing the lobbyists for at least until we get rid of the idiot senator.
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Posts: 1000
| What are some options for new fisheries that might not trigger the emotional response as those Ottertail lakes? What about establishing a fishable population in the Mississippi downstream from st cloud to pool 1, or the Rum/Crow Rivers? |
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Posts: 304
| My vote would be stocking Rainy heavily |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | Hire a PR Agency |
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Posts: 770
| The lake City DNR fishiries biologist said they won't ever stock Muskies in the lower patrs of the Mississippi for 2 reasons, 1 Muskies have had access to the Mississippi for all of eternity and if it was a good body of water for they they would be here naturally, 2 it's a boarder water which makes stocking more complicated because MN and WI must work together. |
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Posts: 6
| Completely agree. I'd like some information regarding those bills that we need to continue to push against. You can bet the goal of this bill is for us to expend our efforts defeating it, declare victory and turn our backs.
Can anyone provide info on the other bills proposed? |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | jonnysled - 3/26/2018 9:02 PM
Hire a PR Agency
That's Right.... Don't be Cheap ! |
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Posts: 43
| "How do we turn this around? What's next? "
Need to make it about habitat, time to restore the shorelines, no more mowing the lawn to the waters edge, 25-50 foot buffer of natural veg, one dock 20' long remove all others, ect. |
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Posts: 43
| They started stocking Big V in 1987
http://www.vermilionlakeassociation.org/other-programs/loon-informa...
looks like the loons are doing pretty good |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | I would say that #1 should be to what we did in Michigan and take the control away from the legislature in any and all fisheries and wildlife decisions. The more these types of decisions end up in statute the harder they are to change when necessary. |
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Posts: 833
| There are a lot of challenges right now. The most pointed is currently Ingrebritsen. We got rid of Hackbarth a few years back which helped a lot. The Marjak guy on Pelican has deep pockets and he is major fire starter on all this stuff. Working on discrediting him will help. Their positions have been discredited many times, but as was said above, they really only need to win once.
The challenges are never going to go away completely. As long as AIS are an issue, lake associations are going to have angst and feel compelled towards protectionism of what they consider "their" body of water. I get the whole public waters thing, but put yourself in the lake owner's shoes for a minute. You just spend $X hundreds of thousands of dollars or you have a cabin that has been in your family for decades. Suddenly the lake you enjoy is threatened or changing or has perception of taking a turn for the worse. You have every incentive to react. That incentive is what a lot of those loud mouths depend upon.
We have an uphill battle with lake shore owners. We have to educate them which takes time. All our enemies have to do is scare them.
On top of the above there are other issues that have taken a back burner. Stocking levels are declining and there is a debate on what the right answer is? The push for more lakes has all but died, although we did get Gull a few years ago which was a huge win.
I said this before, but if you really want to help, donate to the MMPA. Lobbyists are not cheap. |
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Posts: 833
| Will Schultz - 3/27/2018 12:55 PM
I would say that #1 should be to what we did in Michigan and take the control away from the legislature in any and all fisheries and wildlife decisions. The more these types of decisions end up in statute the harder they are to change when necessary.
The bill proposed is the inverse of what you are saying. They are trying to USURP the DNR and TAKE control away from it. We are trying to prevent that from happening. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Brad P - 3/27/2018 1:58 PM Will Schultz - 3/27/2018 12:55 PM I would say that #1 should be to what we did in Michigan and take the control away from the legislature in any and all fisheries and wildlife decisions. The more these types of decisions end up in statute the harder they are to change when necessary. The bill proposed is the inverse of what you are saying. They are trying to USURP the DNR and TAKE control away from it. We are trying to prevent that from happening. I didn't see that in anything I read and if that's the case then you should have every single fishing and hunting organization on your side. Maybe I need to brush up on my understanding of the MN DNR and who approves fisheries and wildlife decisions. Legislators should never be involved in any fisheries or wildlife decisions.
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Here's the problem... and it was as I thought, the MN legislature has control.
"The legislature delegates authority to state agencies to make rules necessary to carry out the purpose of statutorily assigned duties. Rulemaking in Minnesota follows procedures outlined in the Minnesota Administrative Procedure Act (APA), Minnesota Statutes, chapter 14."
Authority needs to be taken away from the legislature. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Will Schultz - 3/27/2018 1:16 PM
Here's the problem... and it was as I thought, the MN legislature has control.
"The legislature delegates authority to state agencies to make rules necessary to carry out the purpose of statutorily assigned duties. Rulemaking in Minnesota follows procedures outlined in the Minnesota Administrative Procedure Act (APA), Minnesota Statutes, chapter 14."
Authority needs to be taken away from the legislature.
That is a nice wish, and I agree, but see that as a pretty impossible challenge. How did Michigan do it? |
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Posts: 859
Location: MN | happy hooker - 3/26/2018 5:19 PM
Some of us have been saying this for years,,the antis put all their energy into attacking because they never have to defend anything. It's a nice philosophy to turn the other cheek but if the other guy keeps swinging you end up with two black eyes instead of one.
Enlist the snowmobile groups to push for a ban on holes in the ice no bigger then 20 inches, sure we probably wouldn't see that pass but they would have to put attention into defending it.
There already are former muskie lakes in Minnesota that the dnr has stopped stocking for many years now especially tiger lakes that data can be used to evaluate the post population of other species which eliminates any need for a push for some new study and supports creating new muskie lakes.
We need to me employing the lobbyists for at least until we get rid of the idiot senator.
I like it.... lex talionis |
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Posts: 222
| Please keep stocking muskies in Minnesota. If they don't and they run out of muskies the Minnasotans will all becoming to Wisconsin to fish muskies. Just kidding. Good luck in your battle.
Edited by Jimbo 3/27/2018 3:25 PM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | scaring people got a moron elected POTUS ... seems it works. unfortunate, but this is the new reality. feel free to delete and place in the basement thread on politics.
shock works in a dummied down world ... and sometimes resistance reinforces it depending on how. time to be smart and especially use tact in response. |
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Posts: 203
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota | Understand this, West Battle Lake was the first lake ever stocked with Muskies in 1963, and it has some really big fish and healthy populations of all other species in the lakes. This is one of the lakes the OTC wants to stop stocking, If a county can shut down this lake, no lake is safe in the state. We cannot budge!!!! |
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| jonnysled - 3/27/2018 3:44 PM
scaring people got a moron elected POTUS ... seems it works. unfortunate, but this is the new reality. feel free to delete and place in the basement thread on politics.
shock works in a dummied down world ... and sometimes resistance reinforces it depending on how. time to be smart and especially use tact in response.
Derangement syndrome runs high with this one! SMH. |
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Posts: 20227
Location: oswego, il | Cfollow - 3/28/2018 6:09 AM
jonnysled - 3/27/2018 3:44 PM
scaring people got a moron elected POTUS ... seems it works. unfortunate, but this is the new reality. feel free to delete and place in the basement thread on politics.
shock works in a dummied down world ... and sometimes resistance reinforces it depending on how. time to be smart and especially use tact in response.
Derangement syndrome runs high with this one! SMH.
Lol.
Edited by ToddM 3/28/2018 7:11 AM
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| So much for site rules I guess.....wow |
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Posts: 304
| Dave Williamson - 3/28/2018 1:13 AM
Understand this, West Battle Lake was the first lake ever stocked with Muskies in 1963, and it has some really big fish and healthy populations of all other species in the lakes. This is one of the lakes the OTC wants to stop stocking, If a county can shut down this lake, no lake is safe in the state. We cannot budge!!!!
It amazes me that they have been stocked this long. You can clearly see that it has had no negative impact on this fishery, and yet, people still want to cry invasive species eating all of our smaller fish. Is this lake not proof? |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | 4amuskie - 3/28/2018 7:26 AM
So much for site rules I guess.....wow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i2rlymfLbE |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Pointerpride102 - 3/27/2018 2:40 PM Will Schultz - 3/27/2018 1:16 PMHere's the problem... and it was as I thought, the MN legislature has control. "The legislature delegates authority to state agencies to make rules necessary to carry out the purpose of statutorily assigned duties. Rulemaking in Minnesota follows procedures outlined in the Minnesota Administrative Procedure Act (APA), Minnesota Statutes, chapter 14."Authority needs to be taken away from the legislature. That is a nice wish, and I agree, but see that as a pretty impossible challenge. How did Michigan do it?
Edited by Will Schultz 3/28/2018 10:53 AM
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Posts: 841
Location: Southwest PA |
Thank you for this gem during my lunch break! |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | If you want the lakefront owners to continue dictating the rules, be sure to re-elect the legislators who do their bidding.
"The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe because its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them." |
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Posts: 1636
| I believe the fine people at Muskies Inc. could be a good influence to Walleye anglers... and teach them the ways of fisheries management, selective catch and release, as well as ways to ethically raise awareness and funds to support their fishery.
Slamr might be interested in collecting canned goods for anglers who absolutely need to keep their limit every time they go out.
Maybe a few MuskieFIRST members can buy homes on some of the lakes and influence their new neighbors in a positive way.
We could also arm the children who are afraid to swim in the lakes with self defense tools to protect themselves from Muskies and a Muskie fishing guide.
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