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Location: Eagan, MN | And, perhaps more importantly, can anything be done to bring them back to what once was a popular national pastime?? The Star Tribune article today by Dennis Andersen leaves me wondering. Brian | |
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Location: Twin Cities, MN | It requires them to put their cell phone down and look where they are going / fishing ..... which based on my experience of " new workers" at my company is an extremely, or very rare occurrence to say the least
I have seen people walk into elevator doors and walls when they try to take a corner without looking up
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| They won't get a participation ribbon or medal just for showing up... | |
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Location: Smith Creek | musky513 - 1/12/2018 9:15 AM
They won't get a participation ribbon or medal just for showing up...
That makes pretty much no sense.
The reason Millennials don't fish as much has more to do with the population moving from rural to urban. Less opportunity. | |
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| I have no idea who came up with this notion but one only has to go out on the bay of Green Bay during September or any lake frozen over in January to say this is BS | |
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| Who would be there to give them a fish? They won't work for one. | |
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| being on the water, ice, and in the woods a lot, i can tell you that about 2/3 of the others i see out there are millenials | |
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Posts: 88
Location: Des Plaines, IL | Disclaimer: I am a "millennial"
Part of the issue is reflected in the comments above. There seems to be this really visceral reaction by older generations to millennials, with common epithets thrown at them like "lazy." I'll tell you right now, that's not helping in any way. Let's be honest, millennials aren't the only ones using technology at higher rates then ever before. How many people here take their grandchildren or nieces and nephews fishing with them? From my experience, this happens less then it used to. My grandfather, a WWII vet, is the primary reason I like to fish now. Kids are not always very patient, so it takes a special relationship to get them to participate in an activity that requires it. I'm grateful he did this for me, because it helped me become a more patient person in general. The concern I have is that too many hunters and anglers have gotten away from the sacrifice it takes to bring a child with. I have a 15 month old son, and I know that when he's old enough to fish, I have to give up my own fishing time to help him and really allow him to enjoy it. That will be a tough sacrifice to make, but I think it's worth it, and I can only hope that others here do too and will follow suit with both their own children and other extended family. My grandfather and uncles did it for me, so it's my turn now.
Another piece of the puzzle, at least for me, is how much work has encroached on our personal time. It's hard to put your cell phone down when you might get an important email you need to respond to at any moment. In my previous job, I always had to have my phone on me in case I had to respond to an "emergency." For instance, when my family goes up to Lake Vermilion, my wife still complains about the slow internet speeds. She says "what if I need to do something?" That impacts all generations, but particularly millennials now, as they are often in the early stages of their careers and feel the need to be constantly available. This goes hand in hand with vacation time as well. People get and take less of it, and when they get it, do they want to fish or hunt? I personally do, but that's because I find peace in doing it because it's where I feel a connection to wonderful childhood memories, and I enjoy the challenge.
Cost has an impact too. The last couple of weeks I've been trying to book a cabin on the Manitowish Chain in Wisconsin, and it is less than fun. It's hard to find places priced in the $1000 - $2000 a week, which for some makes these trips really cost ineffective. Think about it this way. You can stay in a really nice condo or resort in many tropical locations for $300 or less a night. Being a little more competitive in the northern states with resort pricing could help some. Over the long term, the idea would be that more families could access a vacation like that, and thus have the opportunity to experience the outdoors.
Finally, like the article first referenced in this thread says, you need to meet millennials where they are. For example, I really like catch and release fishing for all species, and that's OK. Just like it's OK to keep a limit if you want to eat fish. My hope is that we can tone down the "snowflake" garbage. While helping set up at the local fishing flea market last year, I heard a gentleman make more than a few derogatory comments about younger people, specifically using the term "snowflake." Want to know what happens when you do this? People completely disengage from you. Why would anyone want to talk or learn from someone who refuses to take a genuine interest in them or show them empathy or understanding? And that goes both ways, old to young, young to old.
In essence, what I hope we can start to do is show younger people both the purpose of these activities, along with the ancillary benefits they bring. When I take my son fishing some day, I'm going to tell him stories about when I was younger, like how I threw my pole in the water on a cast and his great grandfather found the lure and we pulled in all of the line on the spool to retrieve it. I'll tell him what kind of fish we're catching and we'll briefly admire how cool they are before putting them back. I'll point out the eagles we see, their nests and how big they are, loons and the silly noises they make. For those that hunt or fish for food, tell kids about why it's important to take only what you need and respect nature for allowing it to work. When someone else catches a fish, smile and be genuinely happy for them. Let people make connections with these activities, find happiness and peace, and they will continue on. Fishing and hunting should be about more than just fishing and hunting, and I think we can do them a great service by helping younger people experience them that way. | |
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Location: Alex or Alek? | 4amuskie - 1/12/2018 9:31 AM
I have no idea who came up with this notion but one only has to go out on the bay of Green Bay during September or any lake frozen over in January to say this is BS
Ice fishing is a good excuse to go out and drink without much effort. Drill a few holes and sit around and drink/play on your phone... | |
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| THEY LOVE IT IF SOMEONE (ANYONE) TAKES THE TIME TO INTRODUCE THEM TO IT.
I've taken several kids fishing and a few hunting and you'd be surprised how many punk kids who play video games all day fall in love with the outdoors. One of my top fishing partners now is a kid who skate boarded and played call of duty all day. I was hesitant to take him and shocked how obsessed he has become. We have since climbed 4 mountains, he has a 51" PB and we are planning an elk hunt and bear hunt out west. I know several other kids who would love to try it but I don't have the time for all of them myself. I also just had a pheasant dinner the other day with a gal who was a vegetarian for years. When I showed her my love of nature and the respect I have for the animals I kill she was able to reconcile it with her morality. She now will eat meat but only if it is wild game or sea food... BOOM! Problem is parents aren't into it and hunting and fishing is SUPER difficult to get into without a mentor or someone to show you (grandparent, parent, friend). Also lets be honest. Most people don't want to exert the energy to take someone or have the added competion out there.
So long story short don't hate on kids. I currently am mentoring a group of city dwelling 7th graders and they mostly have crappy home lives and no one willing to show them how awesome the outdoors are. I asked if they wanted to go camping this spring and hiking in the bluffs along the river and they literally all very excitedly shouted YES! THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME! I would guess most kids would dig it if someone took the time to introduce them. | |
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| I think it's just lack of information. When I'm confronted by a animal rights type I remain calm and explain about how hunting and fishing can help maintain balanced populations of game. You obviously wont convince everyone but I think a fair amount of people I've talked to on the subject have softened their stance on it a bit. I had a woman flip out on me when showing some people a picture of my PB fish last year. "How do you think if feels to have hooks in your mouth?" she yelled. I calmly replied that I'm very careful handling a fish and do everything I can to release it unharmed. I also told her about how I support organizations like Muskies Inc. and what they do. She actually apologized and admitted she just didn't know. These interactions are all chances to help our cause. | |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | I hate that I am technically a millennial  | |
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Location: 15 miles east of Lake Kinkaid | Flambeauski - 1/12/2018 9:30 AM
musky513 - 1/12/2018 9:15 AM
They won't get a participation ribbon or medal just for showing up...
That makes pretty much no sense.
The reason Millennials don't fish as much has more to do with the population moving from rural to urban. Less opportunity.
When researched, I would bet this is the true reason based on data. As an outdoorsman and millennial, who has lived in suburban, rural, and urban areas, your observation is what I have observed. 30K+ in college loans also doesn’t make getting into fishing or hunting any easier.
As a company (Llungen Lures) we do everything we can to help out the younger generations. We sponsor high school and college teams and tournaments all over the Midwest and south. We have a discount for these participants as well through their clubs or teams. We do kid’s events at numerous musky shows as well-volunteering significant resources to each one. My wife spent 10 hours painting a photo booth for this year’s musky shows and it was on display at Chicago. We love bringing young people into the booth at shows and try our best to bring the younger generation into the outdoors. Actions speak much louder than words.
Edited by MuskyMATT7 1/12/2018 10:20 AM
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Location: Minneconia | There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth...
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Location: Des Plaines, IL | Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM
There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth...
I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." | |
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Location: Minneconia |
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
Edited by Dirt Esox 1/12/2018 11:02 AM
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Location: Ashland WI | If we have such a problem with the millenials, maybe we should look at who raised them?
I do think there is some truth to the millennials being "given" a lot, but all generations have tried to do better for their children. I think the generation that raised the millennials is the first one that actually had the ability to give them quite a bit more. Most of the time thinking it would be good, when in actuality, it probably was not the right thing to do.
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Location: The desert | Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun! | |
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Location: Minnetonka | If Millennials are defined as 20 - 36 years old, looks like this poll puts them ~1/3 of the muskie fishing population.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11... | |
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| A lot of smaller streams that once held large populations of fish now hold zero to few. Restoring small streams and managing local ponds can go a long way. Places where kids can venture off and fish on their own is just as important, if not more important than somebody taking them.
I understand that it is important to have dream fishing get-a-ways and managing those bodies of water is important... but, there are a lot of places close to where people actually live that need attention in order for people to have a regular fishing spot versus a vacation spot they visit once a year.
I believe fishing interest is at an all-time high... just don't think people get out as much as they used to. Money, time, and real-world responsibilities all factor in this. Like Gunk said... thousands of dollars in student loans can take some free-time away.
Edited by Reelwise 1/12/2018 12:10 PM
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Location: WI | I love that the generation that complains about millennial is the generation that raised it. What did u guys do wrong? | |
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Location: Ashland WI | Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't? | |
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| There’s a good chance some people, even those who are interested enough to read this topic and of an older generation, did not read all of dbach17’s essay because of its length. And that is a terrible shame. Millenial’s may have a reputation for short attention spans, but they didn’t invent it.
What dbach17 wrote should be published, and everyone should read it. Well done | |
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Location: The desert | 14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 12:50 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't?
Are you being intentionally obtuse? | |
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| I'm not sure that being in a age group labeled x,y, z or millennial has anything to do with it. Having two daughters in the 35 to 45 year old range one like to fish and one couldn't care less. 3 grandkids two boys 1 girl ages 10 to 17 the boys don't care a thing about fishing although one likes camping and being outdoors. My granddaughter on the other hand loves to fish. So I guess I'm in the camp of the kids need to be exposed to fishing 1st and it helps if they have some success early on even if it is catching tiny perch off the dock | |
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Location: Ashland WI | Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 1:14 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 12:50 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't?
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Not anymore than you were.....  | |
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Location: The desert | 14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 1:54 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 1:14 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 12:50 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't?
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Not anymore than you were..... ; )
What was obtuse about my statement? It's pretty clear who I quoted....
As a millennial, why would someone want to fish with someone that believes we're all entitled brats who haven't earned anything on our own?
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Location: Ashland WI | Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:03 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 1:54 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 1:14 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 12:50 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't?
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Not anymore than you were..... ; )
What was obtuse about my statement? It's pretty clear who I quoted....
As a millennial, why would someone want to fish with someone that believes we're all entitled brats who haven't earned anything on our own?
What was obtuse about it? You disagreed with his viewpoint, and said he must be "loads of fun" to fish with. You don't even know the man.
He didn't say all, and he didn't use the word brats. I am a millennial myself, and I didn't get to worked up by his comment. Maybe some of those millennials that get all sore about it realize it has a bit of truth to it?
Based off of what I have read here, I would have no issue fishing with him.
Edited by 14ledo81 1/12/2018 2:17 PM
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Location: The desert | 14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 2:14 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:03 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 1:54 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 1:14 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 12:50 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't?
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Not anymore than you were..... ; )
What was obtuse about my statement? It's pretty clear who I quoted....
As a millennial, why would someone want to fish with someone that believes we're all entitled brats who haven't earned anything on our own?
What was obtuse about it? You disagreed with his viewpoint, and said he must be "loads of fun" to fish with. You don't even know the man.
He didn't say all, and he didn't use the word brats. I am a millennial myself, and I didn't get to worked up by his comment. Maybe some of those millennials that get all sore about it realize it has a bit of truth to it?
Based off of what I have read here, I would have no issue fishing with him.
So I shouldn't put a label on him like he has to millenials?
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Location: Ashland WI | Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:18 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 2:14 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:03 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 1:54 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 1:14 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 12:50 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't?
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Not anymore than you were..... ; )
What was obtuse about my statement? It's pretty clear who I quoted....
As a millennial, why would someone want to fish with someone that believes we're all entitled brats who haven't earned anything on our own?
What was obtuse about it? You disagreed with his viewpoint, and said he must be "loads of fun" to fish with. You don't even know the man.
He didn't say all, and he didn't use the word brats. I am a millennial myself, and I didn't get to worked up by his comment. Maybe some of those millennials that get all sore about it realize it has a bit of truth to it?
Based off of what I have read here, I would have no issue fishing with him.
So I shouldn't put a label on him like he has to millenials?
He made a general statement about an entire generation (and it wasn't all inclusive, he used the words "good portion"). You came back with a personal jab. I see a difference. Maybe you don't. Maybe because you took it personally? | |
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| Statistics is the use of mathematics to see trends of behavior that can easily and graphically be displayed in common and easy to understand manners. So if, let’s say, you had data on fishing license sales that showed those sales to be lower and lower with respect to population, and that the mean age of those license holders was skewing older every year for ten years...well then you could say less folks are fishing and the ones who are fishing are older. Why? Because you would have evidence. If you, on the other hand, said you thought most of the people you saw at the Musky expo were in their twenties, well, that wouldn’t mean squat. And, if you said all of my four children (who really were taught to fish and respect the outdoors properly) would rather have their face buried in their smart phone, you would also not know that for sure. I, on the other hand, do know it for sure. “These kids today........” #*^@ it! | |
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Location: Madison, WI | im surprised the headline didn't read "Millenials are killing the Fishing and Hunting industry". Just sounds like lazy journalism to me... | |
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| One reason we may not notice a decline in younger folks, in our community, is that, at least in Minnesota, muskie fishing is one of the only categories of hunting or fishing, that has actually been growing. When an activity is growing in popularity, it usually comes from younger folks. Also, hiking and riding bikes on trails in the woods, are growing activities with the age group you are referring to, but they don't have to buy hunting or fishing licenses, so we may not be able to quantify their outdoor activities as easily. | |
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| musky513 - 1/12/2018 9:15 AM
They won't get a participation ribbon or medal just for showing up...
I get it. Good one! | |
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Location: The desert | 14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 2:27 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:18 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 2:14 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:03 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 1:54 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 1:14 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 12:50 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't?
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Not anymore than you were..... ; )
What was obtuse about my statement? It's pretty clear who I quoted....
As a millennial, why would someone want to fish with someone that believes we're all entitled brats who haven't earned anything on our own?
What was obtuse about it? You disagreed with his viewpoint, and said he must be "loads of fun" to fish with. You don't even know the man.
He didn't say all, and he didn't use the word brats. I am a millennial myself, and I didn't get to worked up by his comment. Maybe some of those millennials that get all sore about it realize it has a bit of truth to it?
Based off of what I have read here, I would have no issue fishing with him.
So I shouldn't put a label on him like he has to millenials?
He made a general statement about an entire generation (and it wasn't all inclusive, he used the words "good portion" ). You came back with a personal jab. I see a difference. Maybe you don't. Maybe because you took it personally?
Far from it. I actually find it amusing. The generalization is lazy. Are there lazy, entitled millenials? Absolutely. Just like there were lazy, entitled people in every generation prior. | |
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| Millennials represent about 50 percent of the workforce and in about 5-6 years that number is assumed to grow to 75 percent. Millennials obviously grew up in a different time period... which has lead most to focus more on education and their careers versus starting their own family and fishing all the time at a young age with a job they hate doing. So much for lazy...
Does this make any sense?
- Education and working for a career they love = lazy
- Jumping on the first decent paying job, starting a family, and fishing all the time = productive
Yeah... makes no sense to me either.
The sense of entitlement thing is a joke... we would be fools to waste out on opportunities that exist now thanks to the hard work and sacrifices those who came before us have made. We advanced... and life is a little easier for some people. How is that a reason to bash them? Older guys and gals... give yourself a pad on the back. You should be proud of yourselves.
Our armed forces... our relatives... they worked hard for things to be easier for us - and I appreciate it. Is it our fault most of the roads and bridges have already been built? Take a look at some of the careers that exist now... and how much good millennials are doing for the business world. I would have to say more and more young people are making work fun these days. God forbid somebody has fun with their life. | |
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Location: West Chester, OH | 1/3 of millennials are focusing on education & careers...in dad's basement.
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/330279-more-millennials-liv... | |
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| So now it is a bad thing that parents offer help and aid to improve the chance of success for their children?
Weird...
Edited by Reelwise 1/12/2018 8:32 PM
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| I did not see anything in the article about how a lot of the parents of millennials are having a tough time themselves and need roomates to help them get by... | |
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| Before I retired, I hired a number of millennials for entry level professional jobs and they were terrific. High energy, focused, wanted to advance and were willing to do the work to do so. I started interviewing and hiring people over 40 years ago. The Millennials stack up well in comparison to any other group. But, they are going to be loyal to their career, not a company. They saw their parents lose jobs in downsizings due to mergers, go without raises while the incompetent CEO who caused the company to be up for sale walks away with a golden parachute.
I don't know all the reasons they might not be hunting and fishing as much but something that is happening and will probably continue for some time is people taking less vacation time. Most jobs today provide less paid vacation than companies provided 20 years ago. And even if they have vacation, people are reluctant to take it, at least in week long chunks. The Wisconsin Department of Tourism had a study last year where they found that people are using less vacation time, and it is hurting tourism. Instead of a week up north on a lake, they take a long weekend, taking one or two days of vacation.
What is even more remarkable is how much vacation is unused and lost. The story on Wis. Public Radio that talked about the states study said a lot of people today just don't use all their vacation time. And even when they do, they are expected to stay connected, answer e-mails, respond to texts. Before I retired articles in HR journals and online talked about this phenomenon where companies expect you to be available, regardless of whether you are on vacation or not. Some of those folks you see walking and staring at their phones are reading a text their boss sent them on their lunch break, on their day off, etc. Back in the late 90s I worked for a multi state company and because cell coverage was not what it is today, when I was on the road, I had to have not only my big clunky cell, but also a pager. At home during the week, I was to have my pager on me until 8:00 PM eastern time, because we had offices open until then. That was nothing compared to what a lot of companies expect today. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Geeze | |
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| First of all i want say that Dbach and musky skunk NAILED it. Being honest, nice, and simply explaining your side of the story goes along way when introducing someone to something. I'm a junior in high school and can say that the stereotypes are true. I'm surrounded by them all the time. But this doesn't mean that they are terrible or aren't useful. Genetics have not all of a sudden decided to make a bunch of useless jerks. People are a result of their environment, so if anything is to blame its social media and other things. Being negative will do nothing but fuel the fire. I definitely dont think fishing is going away. As far as i can tell there are more boats on the water now than ever. Also look at all the youtube channels on fishing that cater towards the younger generation. | |
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| I blame the parents.
If you don't spend time with your kids, they don't learn to appreciate and/or enjoy doing outdoors activities.
They see that their parents just sit and watch TV so that is what the millennials have learned to do; throw in video games and social media and you end up with a bunch of people who don't participate in real living as their lives are lived in the digital realm. | |
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| I think an average millennial would think this thread is obtuse. | |
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Location: The desert | ARmuskyaddict - 1/12/2018 11:56 PM
I think an average millennial would think this thread is obtuse.
Indeed. | |
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Location: St. Lawrence River | I am a "millenial." Ofcourse i live up in the northwoods. But in my area, i would say 8 or 9 out of 10 of every male between 16 and 30 hunts and fishes. Here, if you dont hunt or fish, your an oddball... i woulsnt know any other lifestyle. It depends where you live. I agree with the rural----->urban thing.. | |
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Location: Ashland WI | Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 5:48 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 2:27 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:18 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 2:14 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:03 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 1:54 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 1:14 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 12:50 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't?
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Not anymore than you were..... ; )
What was obtuse about my statement? It's pretty clear who I quoted....
As a millennial, why would someone want to fish with someone that believes we're all entitled brats who haven't earned anything on our own?
What was obtuse about it? You disagreed with his viewpoint, and said he must be "loads of fun" to fish with. You don't even know the man.
He didn't say all, and he didn't use the word brats. I am a millennial myself, and I didn't get to worked up by his comment. Maybe some of those millennials that get all sore about it realize it has a bit of truth to it?
Based off of what I have read here, I would have no issue fishing with him.
So I shouldn't put a label on him like he has to millenials?
He made a general statement about an entire generation (and it wasn't all inclusive, he used the words "good portion" ). You came back with a personal jab. I see a difference. Maybe you don't. Maybe because you took it personally?
Far from it. I actually find it amusing. The generalization is lazy. Are there lazy, entitled millenials? Absolutely. Just like there were lazy, entitled people in every generation prior.
So you didn't take personally? But decided to post a personal jab at dirt esox? I would call that obtuse....
Edited by 14ledo81 1/13/2018 7:09 AM
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Location: Hayward, WI | Growing up in a rural area it was common to get on my bike and take off for a day to go fishing. Or get dropped off at the lake if we could find someone to drive us and then get picked up at dark. My buddies and I had our first camping trips before we had drivers licences. I think that this is completely gone from our lifestyles now days. Parents couldn't imagine their kids being out alone for a day. Why has that changed? To me that was a big part of what got me started in fishing. | |
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Location: The desert | 14ledo81 - 1/13/2018 7:07 AM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 5:48 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 2:27 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:18 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 2:14 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:03 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 1:54 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 1:14 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 12:50 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't?
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Not anymore than you were..... ; )
What was obtuse about my statement? It's pretty clear who I quoted....
As a millennial, why would someone want to fish with someone that believes we're all entitled brats who haven't earned anything on our own?
What was obtuse about it? You disagreed with his viewpoint, and said he must be "loads of fun" to fish with. You don't even know the man.
He didn't say all, and he didn't use the word brats. I am a millennial myself, and I didn't get to worked up by his comment. Maybe some of those millennials that get all sore about it realize it has a bit of truth to it?
Based off of what I have read here, I would have no issue fishing with him.
So I shouldn't put a label on him like he has to millenials?
He made a general statement about an entire generation (and it wasn't all inclusive, he used the words "good portion" ). You came back with a personal jab. I see a difference. Maybe you don't. Maybe because you took it personally?
Far from it. I actually find it amusing. The generalization is lazy. Are there lazy, entitled millenials? Absolutely. Just like there were lazy, entitled people in every generation prior.
So you didn't take personally? But decided to post a personal jab at dirt esox? I would call that obtuse....
So you thought you'd try to out obtuse me? | |
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| dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:58 AM
Disclaimer: I am a "millennial"
Part of the issue is reflected in the comments above. There seems to be this really visceral reaction by older generations to millennials, with common epithets thrown at them like "lazy." I'll tell you right now, that's not helping in any way. Let's be honest, millennials aren't the only ones using technology at higher rates then ever before. How many people here take their grandchildren or nieces and nephews fishing with them? From my experience, this happens less then it used to. My grandfather, a WWII vet, is the primary reason I like to fish now. Kids are not always very patient, so it takes a special relationship to get them to participate in an activity that requires it. I'm grateful he did this for me, because it helped me become a more patient person in general. The concern I have is that too many hunters and anglers have gotten away from the sacrifice it takes to bring a child with. I have a 15 month old son, and I know that when he's old enough to fish, I have to give up my own fishing time to help him and really allow him to enjoy it. That will be a tough sacrifice to make, but I think it's worth it, and I can only hope that others here do too and will follow suit with both their own children and other extended family. My grandfather and uncles did it for me, so it's my turn now.
Another piece of the puzzle, at least for me, is how much work has encroached on our personal time. It's hard to put your cell phone down when you might get an important email you need to respond to at any moment. In my previous job, I always had to have my phone on me in case I had to respond to an "emergency." For instance, when my family goes up to Lake Vermilion, my wife still complains about the slow internet speeds. She says "what if I need to do something?" That impacts all generations, but particularly millennials now, as they are often in the early stages of their careers and feel the need to be constantly available. This goes hand in hand with vacation time as well. People get and take less of it, and when they get it, do they want to fish or hunt? I personally do, but that's because I find peace in doing it because it's where I feel a connection to wonderful childhood memories, and I enjoy the challenge.
Cost has an impact too. The last couple of weeks I've been trying to book a cabin on the Manitowish Chain in Wisconsin, and it is less than fun. It's hard to find places priced in the $1000 - $2000 a week, which for some makes these trips really cost ineffective. Think about it this way. You can stay in a really nice condo or resort in many tropical locations for $300 or less a night. Being a little more competitive in the northern states with resort pricing could help some. Over the long term, the idea would be that more families could access a vacation like that, and thus have the opportunity to experience the outdoors.
Finally, like the article first referenced in this thread says, you need to meet millennials where they are. For example, I really like catch and release fishing for all species, and that's OK. Just like it's OK to keep a limit if you want to eat fish. My hope is that we can tone down the "snowflake" garbage. While helping set up at the local fishing flea market last year, I heard a gentleman make more than a few derogatory comments about younger people, specifically using the term "snowflake." Want to know what happens when you do this? People completely disengage from you. Why would anyone want to talk or learn from someone who refuses to take a genuine interest in them or show them empathy or understanding? And that goes both ways, old to young, young to old.
In essence, what I hope we can start to do is show younger people both the purpose of these activities, along with the ancillary benefits they bring. When I take my son fishing some day, I'm going to tell him stories about when I was younger, like how I threw my pole in the water on a cast and his great grandfather found the lure and we pulled in all of the line on the spool to retrieve it. I'll tell him what kind of fish we're catching and we'll briefly admire how cool they are before putting them back. I'll point out the eagles we see, their nests and how big they are, loons and the silly noises they make. For those that hunt or fish for food, tell kids about why it's important to take only what you need and respect nature for allowing it to work. When someone else catches a fish, smile and be genuinely happy for them. Let people make connections with these activities, find happiness and peace, and they will continue on. Fishing and hunting should be about more than just fishing and hunting, and I think we can do them a great service by helping younger people experience them that way.
Howdy,
Yeah, but then a bunch of hypocrites would have to get off their high-horse, and what fun is that?
Every generation has largely failed to live up to the expectations and so-called achievements of the ones that came before it. Millennials are no different.
However, the political polarization that we have is as much a part of this as anything, particularly with the strong age related identification to political parties that is reflected in boomers as opposed to Millennials. Hence the "snowflake" crap.
Thankfully, as a Gen-Xer, I achieved total perfection at an early age and am now the gold standard of how society should be. Now if only the rest of the generations could their act together.
Take care,
Ruddiger
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| Wow... I just wasted way too much time reading this... when I could have been hunting or fishing. | |
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Posts: 4269
Location: Ashland WI | Pointerpride102 - 1/13/2018 9:07 AM
14ledo81 - 1/13/2018 7:07 AM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 5:48 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 2:27 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:18 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 2:14 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 2:03 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 1:54 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 1:14 PM
14ledo81 - 1/12/2018 12:50 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/12/2018 11:48 AM
Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 11:00 AM
dbach17 - 1/12/2018 10:39 AM Dirt Esox - 1/12/2018 10:36 AM There's a big difference between "lazy" and "entitled". A good portion of millennials I know fall into the latter category. Most stereotypes are based in at least some amount of truth... I have yet to meet any human being who did not feel "entitled" to something. You know, like "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." How very millennial of you to make an argument like that. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness(derived from our founding fathers Judeo-Christian belief system that the aforementioned are God given)are entirely different than unearned trophy and smothering parent given rights to a 250K salary, the managers job, and 8 weeks of vacation immediately upon graduating college.
I can see tons of millennials lining up to fish/hunt with this guy. Sounds like loads of fun!
Which one Pointer? The one you agree with? Or the one you don't?
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Not anymore than you were..... ; )
What was obtuse about my statement? It's pretty clear who I quoted....
As a millennial, why would someone want to fish with someone that believes we're all entitled brats who haven't earned anything on our own?
What was obtuse about it? You disagreed with his viewpoint, and said he must be "loads of fun" to fish with. You don't even know the man.
He didn't say all, and he didn't use the word brats. I am a millennial myself, and I didn't get to worked up by his comment. Maybe some of those millennials that get all sore about it realize it has a bit of truth to it?
Based off of what I have read here, I would have no issue fishing with him.
So I shouldn't put a label on him like he has to millenials?
He made a general statement about an entire generation (and it wasn't all inclusive, he used the words "good portion" ). You came back with a personal jab. I see a difference. Maybe you don't. Maybe because you took it personally?
Far from it. I actually find it amusing. The generalization is lazy. Are there lazy, entitled millenials? Absolutely. Just like there were lazy, entitled people in every generation prior.
So you didn't take personally? But decided to post a personal jab at dirt esox? I would call that obtuse....
So you thought you'd try to out obtuse me?
Yes. I don't like bullying.
Edited by 14ledo81 1/13/2018 12:40 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Lead with your chin, expect those results. If you would stop trying to one up pointer ( same with him, obviously), you would not be engaged in a negative debate and would not be feeling 'bullied', which is a direct reflection of a portion of why the Millennial gen and the Xers have identifiable norms differing from other generations....no one has taught the general population the fine art of debate. Blunt answers tend to hurt feelings rather than generate blunt answers and questions back, as was the norm for my generation. Oh, my generation had a hell of a bunch of faults, yes, and we had our brilliant moments too, but don't we all?
There's no person or people to 'blame' for a generational trend, it's society in general as there are every level of incredible to crappy parents, teachers, and mentors in the population. I just made it as a member of the baby boomer generation that exploded after WW2. I had hair down to my shoulders for awhile, and I guarantee it wasn't either my parents desire nor to their distress that I did and there were both jocks and hippies in school in Wauconda. I didn't go the Viet Nam ( pure draft luck); I didn't protest the war, either. So was I a Flower Child when I looked like one? Got called a lazy hippy that year by the generation just ahead of me, and the parental generation just looked at me and shook their heads....unless I was laying sod or planting 100 trees in a couple days in one of the subdivisions popping up everywhere NW of Chicago because of my landscaping job. Then the hard hat and sweat said something different.
But for a year I looked the part. Then we moved back to New Mexico and I cut my hair, broke out the straw( that's a hat, it was Summer), jeans, and boots and got around on my horse because I didn't have a car. Carried a .38 snub nose pistol loaded with Norma reloads with me everywhere (my mother gave it to me) in case I had a chance to pop a rattle snake, that skin would keep me in papers and Bull Durham for a couple weeks. No one gave a darn. Kids had rifles in the rear window rack of the pick-up all the time. No one shot anyone, fighting was for fists and boots, not guns, and no one even thought of shooting up a place, too many folks would shoot back, and not miss, either. Didn't bring it to school, but no one would have checked me for it. Brass knuckles, and if one couldn't afford those, a roll of pennies, were a standard part of the 'stomper' (cowboy, but the real thing, not some urban makeover) gear in school, and that made for some messy lunchtime fights. Yes, fighters were sent home. No, they were not suspended, it was expected. That's how my generation in the desert SW avoided 'bullying', we learned to fight. Girls too. They liked bike chains around the waists, not silly hair pulling screeching and yelling. It wasn't IF someone was going to pick a fight with me, it was when. When it happened, I had better defend myself well or it would happen again soon, and often. No one ever asked me how I 'felt' and no one gave a hoot, either. Actions told the story.
SO if someone with a similar background to mine calls you a snowflake, maybe now you can see why. They are not right, nor are they wrong, they just grew up in a different world and still are a product of a society that claimed them and is still around in some parts of this country. Things that seem to strike fear into or horrify some folks today were part and parcel of daily life.
It's also in part the semi-realistic expectation of instant gratification brought on by digital communication. Want to buy something? Click. Ask a question and get the definitive answers? Click. Research some homework? Click. Communicate with your circle of friends? Scroll, click, scroll, type, click, immediate and gratifying....geeze. Pen and paper? Going the way of the Bison. Went to school and got a high powered degree? Expect a high powered job real quick after graduation. Hell, the schools sell those horribly expensive degrees promising it all, so why not...you owe $75K for the experience.
Bullying? Really? This discussion ain't anywhere near that.
I'm from the generation that was the sixties growing up, and have seen actual reality in many of the generational classifications, and this one definitely qualifies. Is that a bad thing? No, I don't think so. All of this is leading us somewhere, and if in general, we as a society decide the direction is not where we need to go...it will change.
Again.
Accept what/who you are, but learn about others, other societies, countries, areas right here in the good old North American continent and learn how to properly interact...they ain't like you. Put the phone down and look around more. Just a few more minutes a day. Pretty much goes for everyone these days. At least, that's what I say, and I'm sticking to it.....
Millennials fish. Some hunt. We need more of you in the sport, not less, but don't expect to join the old farts without some serious ribbing. It's gonna happen. hand it right back, look for the chinks in our armor and let us have it. We will respect you for it. | |
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Location: oswego, il | Ruddiger and Steve, great posts. The last two generations have had alot more competition for their free time. The world is forever getting more complex and diverse. Same with things to do and do easily. You may not like it but you cannot stop it. | |
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Location: Aurora | Did you mean, you can't stop it, you can only hope to contain it?
Oh, and when do the robots come to steal our medication? | |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Intersting article about this phenomenon in AARP - yea, I know, but it IS interesting.
https://www.aarp.org/health/brain-health/info-2017/mental-focus-smar... | |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i blame millennials for the increase in Coyotes ... so i bought and AR and plan to be part of the solution instead of complaining about the problem. hopefully i can get my own millennials to get out there and shoot em up too ...
trapping and predator hunting are quickly becoming a thing of the past. time to get back out there and do my part ... | |
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| Shocking to read Steve’s post and learn he is clearly a much older man than I had thought from looking at startlingly handsome photos of him. Now, I’m forced to wonder if he’s older than me, and this is the longest post I can finish without starting with a fresh diaper? | |
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| Fishing is something you grow into or come back to. Seems when we are little dad or grand dad would take us fishing. Then girls, cars, jobs and life in general gets in the way. But once things settle down we start looking for something more relaxing, peaceful to do with our spare time.
Also kids need to be encouraged. I have known several kids who have sat around the campfire with adults. When talking about how the fishing went that day they are all ears. You can see a interest there. I'll strike up a conversation and then go into the trailer and come out with some baits. I'll offer them to the kids, answer questions on how and what to use them for. The next day you will see those same kids on the docks trying to catch something. At that point you can offer them a trip out in the boat. Offer to take dad if he wants to go. Kids are interested in lots of things, they just need to be encouraged and offered a opportunity. Instead of complaining about the kids maybe we should encourage them and help them. For what we spend on a single bait would could buy a complete rod and reel set-up and a handful of baits to get a kid started. I'll also urge anybody to strike up a conversation if you see a millennial looking at tackle or hanging around a bait shop. You might be surprised at the interest level.
Also instead of fighting like a bunch of little girls we might wanna offer up help or solutions to the topic. | |
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| Ironic!!!
The Millenials band plays mostly classic rock,,Led Zep,,Boston,etc,,maybe we could book them for a swap meet  | |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Plenty of millenials fishing. Lot of silliness posted here.
Edited by Musky Brian 1/14/2018 10:37 AM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | So I don't actually know what a millenial is, and the spell checker doesn't seem to either. I see and talk to lots of young guys who fish hard for a couple of years you can set a clock by their arrival at the launch . They then disappear and when I ask about them is . He's started his own business. He's got a new baby, He's bought and renovating an old house, He's got a couple of kids into sports, so I realize they have their priorities straight and at some point when they have less demands on their time they are likely to return. | |
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Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Boy where to start....
When I grew up all of my friends and my friends fathers hunted and fished. We were raised to love the outdoors and forced to go on occasion. At times we didn't want to go but at the end of the day we were happy we did. I have friends that leave it up to their children as to whether or not they want to hunt and fish. Because it takes effort to hunt and fish most times their children don't go. They loose interest and soon my friends stop asking their children to go. So in a sense I blame the parents that don't want to "pressure" their kids to go.
Secondly, just look at the time commitment required by our youth today with organized sports! Don't get me started on that topic! Tournament teams and club teams have kids practicing and playing in tournaments year round. Talk about taking away valuable family time together in the outdoors.
Parents today (not all) are more concerned with making their children the center of their universe rather than making their children grow up making the parents the center of the childs universe. Many great lifelong values are lost in this process and some of the greatest lessons and values I have learned in life can be attributed to lessons and values gained through experiences in the outdoors.
Ed | |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | MuskyTime - 1/15/2018 9:31 AM
Boy where to start....
When I grew up all of my friends and my friends fathers hunted and fished. We were raised to love the outdoors and forced to go on occasion. At times we didn't want to go but at the end of the day we were happy we did. I have friends that leave it up to their children as to whether or not they want to hunt and fish. Because it takes effort to hunt and fish most times their children don't go. They loose interest and soon my friends stop asking their children to go. So in a sense I blame the parents that don't want to "pressure" their kids to go.
Secondly, just look at the time commitment required by our youth today with organized sports! Don't get me started on that topic! Tournament teams and club teams have kids practicing and playing in tournaments year round. Talk about taking away valuable family time together in the outdoors.
Parents today (not all) are more concerned with making their children the center of their universe rather than making their children grow up making the parents the center of the childs universe. Many great lifelong values are lost in this process and some of the greatest lessons and values I have learned in life can be attributed to lessons and values gained through experiences in the outdoors.
Ed
I completely agree with your last point Ed. Seeing that happen a lot all around me. Kids aren’t even being given the option to dislike something if their parents aren’t making any efforts to expose them to certain things outside the cliched norms of suburban America. | |
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Location: Contrarian Island | very good points Ed... sports are year round now, when we were kids it was nothing like it is now... kids don't have time to learn how to hunt and fish... we are all mainly from the midwest on this Forum too... which skews things a little as by and large I bet the midwest still has more families who hunt and fish as opposed to other regions... | |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | it's possible to do both the sports and the hunting and fishing, but easier if you live in the element vs. having to travel. sports are really important of course after academics and in combination can balance out to other activities. for kids growing up the single most important decision they and parents make is who their friends are. make the right choices there and you can watch a kid achieve in school, in the gym and out in the woods/water. key is to pick your battles and challenge them without burning them out. i see too many guys trying to make their kids into musky fishermen instead of realizing some of the most fun there can be a slip bobber in a downed tree or off a trestle or on the ice.
Edited by jonnysled 1/15/2018 10:23 AM
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| jonnysled - 1/15/2018 10:22 AM
it's possible to do both the sports and the hunting and fishing, but easier if you live in the element vs. having to travel. sports are really important of course after academics and in combination can balance out to other activities. for kids growing up the single most important decision they and parents make is who their friends are. make the right choices there and you can watch a kid achieve in school, in the gym and out in the woods/water. key is to pick your battles and challenge them without burning them out. i see too many guys trying to make their kids into musky fishermen instead of realizing some of the most fun there can be a slip bobber in a downed tree or off a trestle or on the ice.
Yes, my adult son still would rather go out and catch some bluegills or crappies when he comes to visit as opposed to pounding the water for muskies. He has caught some and goes with me but it is not something he gets real excited about. We took him and his sister fishing from shore when we went to camp grounds starting when they were 3 or 4 and they would sit for hours if the panfish were biting. There were days where my hands would have all kinds of knicks and scratches from releasing dozens of panfish when the kids were real little. They both love being outside, in nature and I think those fishing times were a big part of it. | |
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Location: Cedarburg, WI. | First i was born in 1982. From my personal point of view i find it comical how older generations want everybody to get into their hobbies or pastimes. Or all the anecdotal evidence of "snowflakes, entitled, or lazy." I won't dispute there are exceptions in the masses to validate these broad accusations. However "old guys" be careful what you wish for! A quick google search showed me the US population in 1980 was 226.1 million people. As of today the same google search displays a population of 323.1 million. Just shy of 100 million more people.
Where is Slopski going with this??? I would just say my theory is this. The same people complaining about "millennials" would complain a lot louder if every time they choose to fish or hunt the launch was full or all the tags were taken. So relax and be happy a bunch of these snowflakes decided to develop your new Helix 10 instead of beating you to your favorite spot.
Not taking sides here, just a thought i had.
Edited by Slopski 1/15/2018 12:15 PM
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| OUCH, well stated!! | |
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| There are a ton of great issues covered with this thread and quite frankly quite a few lame, "Me too" generalizations which don't help.
I'm the father of Millennials: They grew up in a world run by electronics, it's not something they made a conscious choice about, and now my son makes his living with those same electronics. By the way, 20 years ago we wouldn't be having this conversation, because we'd be reading it on a newsletter that was probably type set 3 months prior to our reading it.
They also grew up in a world of organized sports that took up far more time than we did growing up, but again it wasn't their choice, they simply grew up in that world.
I think as I reflect back that we adults to those children often made that as our excuse. I coached a lot of those teams and I can tell you that anyone who makes the argument that they are lazy as a group has their hands full! I would put up that generation's top achievers against any other generations. All generations had their failures, or groups you could easily point to, I was born in the early 60's and it wasn't hard to see all the burnouts hanging out from the 40's 50' and 60's growing up.
We need to adapt and change, because things simply aren't like they used to be, nor is their world or ours.
The cost of our sport as viewed on tv has gotten out of hand, we need to let this generation know that you don't need a $75,000 boat pulled by a $75,000 truck, with a $2,000 trolling motor, and $4,000 worth of electronics to have fun.
I'd love to see a tournament series with 16' boats with a 40hp limit, a tiller trolling motor and one piece of electronics 7" or less, to help them get started. Remember when we fished like that and had fun? Back in the 80's BASS had the 150 hp limit and it didn't hurt anything.
Maybe we need to adapt to help them out. Maybe we need to understand the electronics as an asset and not a curse, maybe we need to not use all the boring worn out generalizations.
Nomad
Edited by Nomadmusky 1/15/2018 1:14 PM
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| Speaking from experience, mostmillennials don't fish/hunt because they haven't been given the opportunity to experience it. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just saying that instead of going out in the boat on the weekends, the family did something else.
How do you reverse that? By giving them the opportunity.
I've introduced dozens of people my age and younger over the years to fishing by simply taking them out. Guess what? It sticks with a lot of them.
My best example is grouse hunting.Three years ago a couple buddies and I organized a grouse camp in northern MN. In the process, some younger brother in laws and their friends found out and asked to join. We said yes of course. Unfortunately, about 9 of them didn't have firearm safety. In a span of 2 weeks, all of them did their online course and got their licenses. That first year was more about gun safety than hunting. Guess what? 8/9 have come back every year since.
I challenge everyone on this board to introduce at least one new person to hunting or fishing every year. If everyone did that, this trend would reverse in short order.
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| If you want to see young people involved in the sport, when a new/wannabe musky fisherman posts about what is the best rod/reel combination he/she can get for under $300, don't tell them they "have" to buy a $500 Tranx and mount it on a $400 custom St. Croix. You see that on here time after time and god forbid they want to start out in a used, 16' aluminum boat because only a 620 Ranger will do if you truly want to catch muskies.
The new fishermen say this is what I can spend, and people don't seem to get, that is what they can spend. If they had a $1,000 to spend on a rod/reel they would have said that, not $200 or $300. | |
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Location: The desert | This millennial took his kids fishing yesterday, and taking them again tonight. Both had their tablets along to help keep them entertained beyond playing with the minnows and not catching fish. The tablets sat idle most of the time as they played outside and tried convincing the fish to bite most of the time.
They still like the boat better. So does dad.
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Location: oswego, il | In about 25 years the millennials will recall a time when they walked to school uphill both ways and scroll menus on their smart phone to get to things. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Slopski - 1/15/2018 12:00 PM
First i was born in 1982. From my personal point of view i find it comical how older generations want everybody to get into their hobbies or pastimes. Or all the anecdotal evidence of "snowflakes, entitled, or lazy." I won't dispute there are exceptions in the masses to validate these broad accusations. However "old guys" be careful what you wish for! A quick google search showed me the US population in 1980 was 226.1 million people. As of today the same google search displays a population of 323.1 million. Just shy of 100 million more people.
Where is Slopski going with this??? I would just say my theory is this. The same people complaining about "millennials" would complain a lot louder if every time they choose to fish or hunt the launch was full or all the tags were taken. So relax and be happy a bunch of these snowflakes decided to develop your new Helix 10 instead of beating you to your favorite spot.
Not taking sides here, just a thought i had.
Why is it 'comical' that I would want to see new anglers, especially young folks, in the sport? If we don't collectively grow the sports of fishing and hunting, the industry is in trouble and the door will be open to over-protecting the fish and game from the far, far left. PETA would love to see my generation not get replaced as we leave this rock. I have done everything I can to get my sons involved (Keith works with OFM full time, he was born in 1980, Brian is a few years older and is a psychologist who loves to hunt and fish with his kids), and my grandsons too. Also, a shocker...OFM originally created this place shooting specifically at the Gen Xers and Millennials. The 'old guys' who decided computers were OK joined in. Now some of the younger folks who joined us are crowding middle age...time flows along pretty quickly. One thing I have noticed on social media is younger folks ARE ice fishing more than in previous decades, good to see.
Soon you will be looking at a very intensive effort to bring more of the current and future generation's young folks into the sport right here. We (OFM) won't 'relax' until a good number of the Millennials who had a hand in designing my Helix 7 are anglers, and their friends are, too. I wouldn't worry about tags being gone or the landings filling up with young folks because of the demographics of geography alone, it will be difficult enough to hold status quo. Look at where/who the people are, and where there's fishing and hunting opportunities.
http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_mostcommonindustry.html
http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_generations.html | |
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| sworrall - 1/15/2018 3:07 PM
Slopski - 1/15/2018 12:00 PM
First i was born in 1982. From my personal point of view i find it comical how older generations want everybody to get into their hobbies or pastimes. Or all the anecdotal evidence of "snowflakes, entitled, or lazy." I won't dispute there are exceptions in the masses to validate these broad accusations. However "old guys" be careful what you wish for! A quick google search showed me the US population in 1980 was 226.1 million people. As of today the same google search displays a population of 323.1 million. Just shy of 100 million more people.
Where is Slopski going with this??? I would just say my theory is this. The same people complaining about "millennials" would complain a lot louder if every time they choose to fish or hunt the launch was full or all the tags were taken. So relax and be happy a bunch of these snowflakes decided to develop your new Helix 10 instead of beating you to your favorite spot.
Not taking sides here, just a thought i had.
Why is it 'comical' that I would want to see new anglers, especially young folks, in the sport? If we don't collectively grow the sports of fishing and hunting, the industry is in trouble and the door will be open to over-protecting the fish and game from the far, far left. PETA would love to see my generation not get replaced as we leave this rock. I have done everything I can to get my sons involved (Keith works with OFM full time, he was born in 1980, Brian is a few years older and is a psychologist who loves to hunt and fish with his kids ), and my grandsons too. Also, a shocker...OFM originally created this place shooting specifically at the Gen Xers and Millennials. The 'old guys' who decided computers were OK joined in. Now some of the younger folks who joined us are crowding middle age...time flows along pretty quickly. One thing I have noticed on social media is younger folks ARE ice fishing more than in previous decades, good to see.
Soon you will be looking at a very intensive effort to bring more of the current and future generation's young folks into the sport right here. We (OFM ) won't 'relax' until a good number of the Millennials who had a hand in designing my Helix 7 are anglers, and their friends are, too. I wouldn't worry about tags being gone or the landings filling up with young folks because of the demographics of geography alone, it will be difficult enough to hold status quo. Look at where/who the people are, and where there's fishing and hunting opportunities.
http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_mostcommonindustry.html
http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_generations.html
Steve, I think one point he is trying to make is that the same guys who say the Millenials are too lazy to fish are the ones who would pee and moan if they found a bunch of twenty somethings fishing their favorite lake instead of welcoming them to the sport. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Understood. I also understand that was a bit of a 'shot across the bow', and it missed this old guy. 
Come on out and fish, young folks, there's plenty of room. | |
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Location: Cedarburg, WI. | North of 8 - 1/15/2018 3:18 PM
sworrall - 1/15/2018 3:07 PM
Slopski - 1/15/2018 12:00 PM
First i was born in 1982. From my personal point of view i find it comical how older generations want everybody to get into their hobbies or pastimes. Or all the anecdotal evidence of "snowflakes, entitled, or lazy." I won't dispute there are exceptions in the masses to validate these broad accusations. However "old guys" be careful what you wish for! A quick google search showed me the US population in 1980 was 226.1 million people. As of today the same google search displays a population of 323.1 million. Just shy of 100 million more people.
Where is Slopski going with this??? I would just say my theory is this. The same people complaining about "millennials" would complain a lot louder if every time they choose to fish or hunt the launch was full or all the tags were taken. So relax and be happy a bunch of these snowflakes decided to develop your new Helix 10 instead of beating you to your favorite spot.
Not taking sides here, just a thought i had.
Why is it 'comical' that I would want to see new anglers, especially young folks, in the sport? If we don't collectively grow the sports of fishing and hunting, the industry is in trouble and the door will be open to over-protecting the fish and game from the far, far left. PETA would love to see my generation not get replaced as we leave this rock. I have done everything I can to get my sons involved (Keith works with OFM full time, he was born in 1980, Brian is a few years older and is a psychologist who loves to hunt and fish with his kids ), and my grandsons too. Also, a shocker...OFM originally created this place shooting specifically at the Gen Xers and Millennials. The 'old guys' who decided computers were OK joined in. Now some of the younger folks who joined us are crowding middle age...time flows along pretty quickly. One thing I have noticed on social media is younger folks ARE ice fishing more than in previous decades, good to see.
Soon you will be looking at a very intensive effort to bring more of the current and future generation's young folks into the sport right here. We (OFM ) won't 'relax' until a good number of the Millennials who had a hand in designing my Helix 7 are anglers, and their friends are, too. I wouldn't worry about tags being gone or the landings filling up with young folks because of the demographics of geography alone, it will be difficult enough to hold status quo. Look at where/who the people are, and where there's fishing and hunting opportunities.
Steve, I think one point he is trying to make is that the same guys who say the Millenials are too lazy to fish are the ones who would pee and moan if they found a bunch of twenty somethings fishing their favorite lake instead of welcoming them to the sport.
North of 8 - Hit the nail on the head!
Sworrall - I am not against getting new people into hunting and fishing at all. Also i appreciate all you and your family does for the sport I enjoy. I would add while the hunting and fishing industry along with OFM would probably love to see all their numbers double. Do you and anyone else really want to see twice as many people on all your local lakes and hunting land? This is where i think the industry and average sportsmen part ways quite drastically.
Again just thinking out loud. Also really enjoy this site and this discussion in particular Edited by Slopski 1/15/2018 3:55 PM
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| I fish because someone took the time to get me a fishing rod, took me to the lake, and spent countless hours sitting on the pier dealing with hooks and bait and tangled lines until I was old enough to be out there by myself.
A lot of kids aren't that lucky. | |
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Location: Aurora | I checked with Captain Obvious on this and he said catch & release aligns with well with millennial mission, vision & values but considering what the baby boomers have done with hunting & fishing, they don't want anything to do with it and therein lies the problem..
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| Sidejack - 1/15/2018 5:56 PM
I checked with Captain Obvious on this and he said catch & release aligns with well with millennial mission, vision & values but considering what the baby boomers have done with hunting & fishing, they don't want anything to do with it and therein lies the problem..
They'll change their tune when they realize that there may come a time in their life where they have to hunt and fish in order to survive. | |
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| ToddM - 1/15/2018 2:19 PM
In about 25 years the millennials will recall a time when they walked to school uphill both ways and scroll menus on their smart phone to get to things.
In the snow too!
Then again, in 25 years the youngsters probably won't know what snow is. And summer at sea will mean sailing off the coast of Ohio | |
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| OK, seriously, my daughter (the older one who has produced three grandchildren) was the only one who failed my “mandatory” requirement of all my kids showing up for Thanksgiving. Yes, it was a bit farther this year in Florida but really great weather. Why the failure? Sure, the kids had off from school, but not off from practice. All three are in varsity sports, the younger two in two sports, the graduating senior lettered in three. Do you know when these kids have no sports activity? Never! When my younger daughter played high school softball, I coached the girls team in the summer for the coach. Why? Because the “official” coach can’t have contact in the summer, but the parents can fill in. Trust me, all the varsity girls and some very, very serious parents were there. I’m saying there is no summer anymore, no Thanksgiving, no Christmas, no Easter. There is sports day and night every day and night. And (sadly?) it’s a good thing! If those kids fail a mandatory, random drug check, they lose their eligibility. If they mess up their grades, they lose their eligibility. If they don’t engage in some meaningful community work, they don’t get into the best colleges. It’s just different now in pretty much every single way. It’s not bad, it’s just different. Musky fishing can still grow, it’s just not going to ever grow into something large. Just face it and fish. Forget changing the world and just fish. Forget the guys who think the musky are eating their walleye and just fish. Forget the guys in the dark houses and the native Americans with spears and just fish. Basically, I’m saying, “It’s not gonna be what you want...so just fish!” | |
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Location: Mt. Zion, IL | I don't hunt simply due to costs. Ground to deer hunt in this area runs around 15k per acre. Duck hunters get in a lottery for blinds here but there is a waiting list. Land here in IL is leased or sold for astronomical prices. It is not that I don't want to, it is simply that I cannot afford to shoot 3 gun, deer hunt, waterfowl hunt, musky fish, bass fish, work, work on cars (side job), work on reels (side job), take care of my 9 month old daughter, and maintain peace at home. Apparently the OP did not attend the chicago musky show. Millennials (born after 1980) were 3/4 the population at the show. | |
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| For me, it is all about accessibility. I would love to hunt more, but the lack of huntable ground in my area makes that very difficult. I can hook my boat up and have ~20,000 acres of prime musky water w/in minutes of my house. Or...I could dedicate my limited time to hunting, where I have a couple small chunks of public land w/in 30 minutes of my house. I used to hunt a lot growing up and do miss it. But now with a wife, a son going on two years old, a demanding job, I find it harder and harder to have more than one hobby that I dedicate the majority of my free time to. I feel hunting is becoming more and more privatized, and you gotta pay big if you wanna play in my area. On the flip side, we are beyond lucky to have the lakes we do in the TC metro area. Fishing is my passion more so than hunting, lakes are way more accessible than hunting land, and I can pull out of my driveway and be making my first cast 15 minutes later. So that is what I choose to do and will do everything I can to make sure I pass that passion down to my son. | |
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| I suspect hunting and fishing will be just fine. I have no quantitative evidence to support any claims, but if i were to venture a guess, it would be that the participation rates are likely caused at least in part by the transitive nature of wealth in our society. People in their 20s are saddled with a lot of costs and lower income (relative to a 30 or 40 year old). Thus the ability to afford a house, boat, and suitable towing vehicle is probably less than it would be for someone further down the path.
My sense is that as people progress into middle age the single serving/instant gratification forms of fun lose their luster. Also maybe 0.1% of kids in athletics will go on to have a career in it. It is likely that past times/hobbies like hunting and fishing will be turned to as a more fulfilling outlet. Our job isn't just to pass it on to kids, it is also to pass it on to 30/40 somethings who become interested.
Still you can't get past the simple fact that an XBOX costs $300 and $50 a game. Compare that to minimums for a boat/vehicle/house of $10K/$15K/$175K. In the twin cities if you want something "newer" it might be more like $15K/$20K/$300K. If you are a single adult, that will require a decent job to responsibly "afford". Let alone the cost of an XBOX game is what $40? Whereas a single bucktail is $25. Cost of Entry is likely a hurdle...
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Location: Elk River, MN | Brad P - 1/16/2018 9:00 AM
I suspect hunting and fishing will be just fine. I have no quantitative evidence to support any claims, but if i were to venture a guess, it would be that the participation rates are likely caused at least in part by the transitive nature of wealth in our society. People in their 20s are saddled with a lot of costs and lower income (relative to a 30 or 40 year old). Thus the ability to afford a house, boat, and suitable towing vehicle is probably less than it would be for someone further down the path.
My sense is that as people progress into middle age the single serving/instant gratification forms of fun lose their luster. Also maybe 0.1% of kids in athletics will go on to have a career in it. It is likely that past times/hobbies like hunting and fishing will be turned to as a more fulfilling outlet. Our job isn't just to pass it on to kids, it is also to pass it on to 30/40 somethings who become interested.
Still you can't get past the simple fact that an XBOX costs $300 and $50 a game. Compare that to minimums for a boat/vehicle/house of $10K/$15K/$175K. In the twin cities if you want something "newer" it might be more like $15K/$20K/$300K. If you are a single adult, that will require a decent job to responsibly "afford". Let alone the cost of an XBOX game is what $40? Whereas a single bucktail is $25. Cost of Entry is likely a hurdle...
I agree very much on this. | |
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| https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170315005391/en/Camping-U.S...
https://e360.yale.edu/features/greenlock-a-visitor-crush-is-overwhel...
Just another quick thought... look at the rough age of the people in the two pictures in the second article and you will see a ton of Millennials doing challenging things outdoors. They show the half dome hike; 16 miles round trip and the narrows hike; 10 miles round trip. Hiking, camping, climbing/mountaineering, trail running, mountain biking, kayaking/paddle boarding, slack lining, scuba diving/snorkeling, skydiving, nature photography and many more are growing at impressive (or alarming) rates. National Parks are being overwhelmed and retail stores that specialize in outdoor activities are seeing record sales and growth. On my adventures I can say that people under the age of 40 are the majority. Though when someone over 50 is on the trail young people often gravitate towards them and the conversations are very fun and encouraging. I think we need to promote hunting and fishing with youth and make some sacrifices to mentor more. Unlike them we have the boats, the tackle, the hunting ground etc., we need to make the time as well. The idea however that young people are not desiring the outdoors and that connection with nature is false.
Edited by musky-skunk 1/16/2018 11:02 AM
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Location: Minnetonka | Steve mentioned the apparent growth of younger people ice fishing, which is very important to note here. Ice fishing is the "equalizer" so to speak. For less than a lot of peoples' monthly boat payment, a person could get a used shelter, auger, and everything necessary to access the fish anywhere within walking distance on a lake. The growth in ice fishing supports the previously mentioned ideas that open water fishing is just plain expensive these days. The desire is likely still there, but the funds are not. | |
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| I think what we are all missing is the fact that the younger generations are not getting involved with the clubs and organizations that shape the future of fishing and hunting. | |
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| Millennial sportsmen and women give me hope. They appear to be less interested in harvesting and more knowledgeable about conservation. I think baby boomers (which I am at the tail end of) are split. You have those that pushed the conservation and catch and release ethic, but you also had a high percentage of boomers that were extremely harvest oriented. I think those that do participate in hunting and fishing will be a far more conservation minded participant. I just hope that enough of them participate so that our game and fish habitats can be sustained. | |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion |
musky-skunk - 1/16/2018 10:34 AM
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170315005391/en/Camping-U.S...
https://e360.yale.edu/features/greenlock-a-visitor-crush-is-overwhel...
Just another quick thought... look at the rough age of the people in the two pictures in the second article and you will see a ton of Millennials doing challenging things outdoors. They show the half dome hike; 16 miles round trip and the narrows hike; 10 miles round trip. Hiking, camping, climbing/mountaineering, trail running, mountain biking, kayaking/paddle boarding, slack lining, scuba diving/snorkeling, skydiving, nature photography and many more are growing at impressive (or alarming ) rates. National Parks are being overwhelmed and retail stores that specialize in outdoor activities are seeing record sales and growth. On my adventures I can say that people under the age of 40 are the majority. Though when someone over 50 is on the trail young people often gravitate towards them and the conversations are very fun and encouraging. I think we need to promote hunting and fishing with youth and make some sacrifices to mentor more. Unlike them we have the boats, the tackle, the hunting ground etc., we need to make the time as well. The idea however that young people are not desiring the outdoors and that connection with nature is false.
Agree with this. Adventure Sporting is growing like crazy. My seven Kids also like fishing and hunting when they can. It seems to me that when they turned 20 or so, they found other outdoor things to do instead of the video games .
Us "Older" folks need to give the younger people more opportunities to get out in the woods and out on the Lake. | |
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| DRPEPIN - 1/16/2018 1:00 PM
I think what we are all missing is the fact that the younger generations are not getting involved with the clubs and organizations that shape the future of fishing and hunting.
Maybe they have heard complaints from the old-timers that run said clubs?
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Location: North Central IL USA | bbeaupre - 1/13/2018 11:44 AM
Wow... I just wasted way too much time reading this... when I could have been hunting or fishing.
LOL!!! yeppers! | |
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| Then your living in the wrong area because were i'm from all of the kids hunt and fish when they can. | |
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| late to this thread which is critical to the industry and of interest socially as well. my .02 as a 50ish Dad with a 15 year old son. I grew up roaming the woods and creeks of Maryland. There was no internet, TV was soap operas during the day and a few hours of prime time 8-10pm at night plus Gilligans Island in afternoon. I had no video games - to play those we went to the arcade and dropped quarters until there were no more to drop, and left unsatisfied and broke. I also played some mostly solitaire war games like Squad Leader and Runequest or D&D with friends on Friday night. Going fishing was exotic and exciting, like black magic due to the lack of info around. It sure beat looking at the neighborhood rocks and trees for another week solid.
My son plays 4K+ HD dopamine-engineered games for 8 hours straight. He has hundreds of online friends. Sometimes he leads adults on raids, using his experience and expertise to help them advance. He plays day or night. Instant colors and action and satisfaction. He has never complained about trolls or vulgar negative players and we share a lot.
I didn't do the best job of getting him into fishing, tried fast tracking to trophy bass and Stripers after a bit of Panfish but ultimately he is not interested in it regardless. Many factors including age, genetics, friends, and even hormones play into it so I won't blame myself. (BTW, my Dad who is on female hormone therapy for prostate cancer, lost his interest in fishing. He is a Dr. and when I inquired, he agreed there might be a link).
However, time changes everything. My dear departed Buddy Mike R. had a son who stood him up on his Birthday fishing trip, yet now is a huge fisherman (based on buddies getting into it) and recently went fishing with a Youtube star on my local lake. Mike - your boy is a fisherman after all! He is a few years older than mine. I hope to be around to fish with my boy and his boy or girl too.
I appreciate the many thoughtful posts on this topic.
Edited by curdmudgeon 1/20/2018 8:34 PM
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| It is tough, I have two boys 9 and 3, both love to fish and my older son enjoys hunting in moderation. The phones/computers/videogames do bother me though, I was always outside as a kid always. By the time I was 9 I had caught every reptile for miles. I don't get it but I am glad that my boys enjoy fishing. Hopefully that doesn't ever change! | |
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| Now that my daughter is spending most of her time in school or work, we rarely get out fishing like we used to. When I was her age, you couldn't keep me off of the water or out of the woods. I wish that I had a niece or nephew to take fishing, but there isn't any interest from them. Regardless of public opinion, I still have lots to offer and I miss sharing it. Teaching people how to fish is very gratifying. So is teaching them how to make and paint lures. I hope that I meet someone who wants to pick my brain so I can pass on what I have learned.
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Location: FIB land | My 2 cents; My desire to hunt musky is the result of a memory as a 12 yr old seeing a "huge" muskie mount on the wall at Driftwood Lodge on Sand Lake, Max, Minnesota. The beast came out of "Big Winnie". That memory is still in my head, thanks to my dad taking the family to Minnesota summer vacation. | |
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| I got no patience with the original question because it lumped a whole generation into a observably false conclusion. What's really bothering you, man? | |
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| Not sure they necessarily have, though a stroll through any MI club meeting or any of the shows and tournaments would certainly make it look that way. Lotta gray hair in this sport....
Might be as simple as not having the disposable income we had at their age. Student loan debt, lack of job opportunities...
Could just be a cultural shift. Seems a lot of younger folks are hot for moving into the city and not even owning a car. Probably not going to fish or hunt much in that situation. Worked with a woman a few years back, early 30's, couldn't name any of the major highways in the area, couldn't find the suburbs on the map, didn't own a car, never even got a drivers license. She admitted to me that she'd never been out of the city except to get on a plane and go to some other city. | |
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| esoxaddict - 1/23/2018 11:56 AM
Not sure they necessarily have, though a stroll through any MI club meeting or any of the shows and tournaments would certainly make it look that way. Lotta gray hair in this sport....
Might be as simple as not having the disposable income we had at their age. Student loan debt, lack of job opportunities...
Could just be a cultural shift. Seems a lot of younger folks are hot for moving into the city and not even owning a car. Probably not going to fish or hunt much in that situation. Worked with a woman a few years back, early 30's, couldn't name any of the major highways in the area, couldn't find the suburbs on the map, didn't own a car, never even got a drivers license. She admitted to me that she'd never been out of the city except to get on a plane and go to some other city.
Being a millennial, I think that not having enough disposable income would be one of the biggest factors. Add up all the expenses that there are (rent, car, student debt, etc...) and there is not a lot of money to buy the gear required for the sport. These days it takes 20k to get a decent boat. Throw in another 25K to get a decent truck. That barely gets you fishing.
On top of that, if said millennial wants to start a family, its tough to justify spending 40K on a hobby when daycare for one child costs 800 dollars a month. | |
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| I had some money saved up to buy a boat (around 20k) and then I had a kid...we pay nearly a grand a month for daycare. So I could not justify spending the hard earned money on something I would only use 15-20 times a year.
So for now, and for the foreseeable future, when I want to fish I go with my father and his boat. If he didnt have one, I would not be fishing. | |
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Location: Waukee, IA | Millennial here.
My generation, simply put, doesn't care about the expectations and norms of the boomers or gen x. This is normal for every generation, the difference being opportunity. With the expansion of technology and society as a whole nobody is forced into doing the same things as the previous generations, professionally or in their leisure time. With the staggering cost of startup that is associated with muskie fishing and fishing/hunting in general I don't blame anybody for avoiding it. Add to that the pathetic state of our natural resources and the problem becomes clear.
I'll give an example for where I live. Central Iowa has jack squat for good public fishing opportunities, muskie or otherwise. Sure there are a couple lakes where you can scratch out a few fish, but the great fishing of old that attracted so many from previous generations simply isn't there. I got addicted to fishing early in life, so I'm willing to trailer my boat for hours to find decent fish. Where is the appeal to a newbie in buying extremely expensive gear to put in an extremely expensive boat that you need an expensive pickup to pull hours away to a mediocre lake where the cabin costs $300 per night and you're way more likely to have bad fishing than good?
Not blaming boomers or gen x, the appeal is just shrinking as cost increases.
Also, all of the generational stereotyping and complaining does nothing positive for either side. | |
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| Since when do you need a $20k boat and a $30k truck?
I'd be willing to bet half the guys on this site couldn't sell their boat, truck, and gear for $20k if their life depended on it.
Get an old Esox Magnum, any-old-SUV, a used rod and reel, a dozen or so lures...
I'd venture to say when all is said and done you could get everything you needed to start out for less than $12,000, half of which could be used to buy a vehicle you can actually use to drive to work and back. | |
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Location: The desert | esoxaddict - 1/24/2018 3:36 PM
Since when do you need a $20k boat and a $30k truck?
I'd be willing to bet half the guys on this site couldn't sell their boat, truck, and gear for $20k if their life depended on it.
Get an old Esox Magnum, any-old-SUV, a used rod and reel, a dozen or so lures...
I'd venture to say when all is said and done you could get everything you needed to start out for less than $12,000, half of which could be used to buy a vehicle you can actually use to drive to work and back.
Yeah, we agree here. It can be a challenge but you could probably do even better than that. Heck, you could hire a guide once or twice a month and network with other anglers and not even need a boat.
Where there is a will there is a way, the problem is there are a plethora of other hobbies and stuff that can be cheaper and not require any equipment, or significantly less. | |
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Location: Already Gone | esoxaddict - 1/15/2018 4:30 PM
I fish because someone took the time to get me a fishing rod, took me to the lake, and spent countless hours sitting on the pier dealing with hooks and bait and tangled lines until I was old enough to be out there by myself.
A lot of kids aren't that lucky.
This old guy was lucky to have these guys....an Uncle, his friend, and my Grandfather on the right.
Ducks, geese, fishing, camping, burned into my brain very early on at 11. All done the right way, full respect for the outdoors. I find myself thanking them all the time....otherwise I might have ended up who knows where. I believe it's all about how you're brought up...and then it's about desire and ability. Things are different.... but I wouldn't use the word rejected, I see alot of good guys out there these days.
Edited by Mark Hoerich 1/24/2018 9:03 PM
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Location: Land of the Musky | BrianF. - 1/12/2018 9:00 AM
And, perhaps more importantly, can anything be done to bring them back to what once was a popular national pastime?? The Star Tribune article today by Dennis Andersen leaves me wondering. Brian
Well this sucks from a musky tackle manufacturer but it will only increase the size of musky in the future on "certain" lakes....
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| Here's my 2 cents on being a millennial. The biggest thing is that first experience. If you aren't successful there, especially with kids, they will lose intrest quickly. There are less opportunities for a lot of us because we live in a more urban area. For example I can fish on the river in the city I live in, but the better opportunities are 2 hours away. Another thing is being successful in the first times you go. A rocket fishing rod is not a piece of adequate equipment and leaves people frustrated. People also don't want to pay 40 dollars to get a decent piece of equipment and then buy lures that can rack you up to a hundred bucks for something you aren't very good at. One last thing is the lack of knowledge. They catch nothing while some other guy is catching them every cast. This is obviously not fun for them and usually won't ask for help or if they do sometimes people won't help them.
Sorry if its a little long or seems like a rant and feel free to dm me if you guys want to talk about this more | |
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| I think we're all at fault to a point. We come back from a trip, post a bunch of pictures with a caption that says "6 fish day, 4 over 45"!"
And the rookies see that and think that's the kind of results they should be getting, because we neglected to mention that we caught one other fish the whole week, or that our 6 fish day was the best day we've ever had. The pictures and the stories, the big fish board, that's all fine and great. But it doesn't paint a clear picture of what most folks are going to encounter on any given lake on any given day. | |
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Location: MN | It seems like some in this thread may be a little confused on what a Millennial is. It is people born between the early 80's and late 90's. So that would be people from about 20 years old to mid-30's. There are a ton of muskie fisherman in this age bracket. Go to any muskie show or tournament and people of this age bracket will make up a good portion of the crowd.
I live in a somewhat rural area and a majority of people this age bracket fish, hunt or do both. I am sure the metro areas are much different which is probably why the license sales are dropping.
You can get a nice boat without breaking the bank. Lots of muskie guys out there, including myself, fishing 16-18 foot tillers that can be had for a very reasonable price and get the job done just fine, even on big water. You don't need a sparkly boat to catch fish and a fancy truck to pull it. | |
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Location: Aurora | I married a millennial and while we don't always agree on things, we definitely love to fish out of these little round boats together. Sure, they're not the best on big water but they're economical and killer for performing boat-side maneuvers. Oh, and once we hook up all we do is lean forward a little bit and slide the fish right into the tub.
She named hers the Millennial Falcon ~shrug~
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Location: oswego, il | Sidejack - 1/25/2018 2:47 PM
I married a millennial and while we don't always agree on things, we definitely love to fish out of these little round boats together. Sure, they're not the best on big water but they're economical and killer for performing boat-side maneuvers. Oh, and once we hook up all we do is lean forward a little bit and slide the fish right into the tub.
She named hers the Millennial Falcon ~shrug~
Her rod is bigger than yours. | |
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| A lot of millennials are very career oriented and don't have the time or finances honestly. They're too busy in college 4+ years to fish or hunt, then they come out of school with a lot of debt. Millennials are very busy spending time outdoors and traveling when they can. A lot of more cost friendly activities are on the rise like disc golf, trail running, hiking, kayaking, cycling, etc. Also there is a large gravitation towards metro areas too for millennials. A lot of people would enjoy it, they just need the opportunity. I always take people fishing for the their first time, or first time in a long time. With some it really sticks, and some it doesn't. There is also the "I want it now" mentality too, we all know it takes a lot patience with some fish, especially with poor weather conditions. | |
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Location: Already Gone | Nershi - 1/25/2018 1:17 PM
It seems like some in this thread may be a little confused on what a Millennial is. It is people born between the early 80's and late 90's. So that would be people from about 20 years old to mid-30's. There are a ton of muskie fisherman in this age bracket. Go to any muskie show or tournament and people of this age bracket will make up a good portion of the crowd.
I live in a somewhat rural area and a majority of people this age bracket fish, hunt or do both. I am sure the metro areas are much different which is probably why the license sales are dropping.
You can get a nice boat without breaking the bank. Lots of muskie guys out there, including myself, fishing 16-18 foot tillers that can be had for a very reasonable price and get the job done just fine, even on big water. You don't need a sparkly boat to catch fish and a fancy truck to pull it.
Many a good day was had in a red Lund 16 with a 25 Merc. Towed by a vintage burgundy Cutlass Supreme. Had the nice Brougham package going for those after-dark trolling runs in town too.
Cripes sakes man, those were the days...
Edited by Mark Hoerich 1/26/2018 9:14 AM
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Location: FIB land | Bro- Ham . Lol | |
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Location: Aurora | I think we're fine considering all the millennial's, both famous and not, that I've noticed enjoying a little "slime time" lately.
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Location: oswego, il | Mark Hoerich - 1/26/2018 8:54 AM
Nershi - 1/25/2018 1:17 PM
It seems like some in this thread may be a little confused on what a Millennial is. It is people born between the early 80's and late 90's. So that would be people from about 20 years old to mid-30's. There are a ton of muskie fisherman in this age bracket. Go to any muskie show or tournament and people of this age bracket will make up a good portion of the crowd.
I live in a somewhat rural area and a majority of people this age bracket fish, hunt or do both. I am sure the metro areas are much different which is probably why the license sales are dropping.
You can get a nice boat without breaking the bank. Lots of muskie guys out there, including myself, fishing 16-18 foot tillers that can be had for a very reasonable price and get the job done just fine, even on big water. You don't need a sparkly boat to catch fish and a fancy truck to pull it.
Many a good day was had in a red Lund 16 with a 25 Merc. Towed by a vintage burgundy Cutlass Supreme. Had the nice Brougham package going for those after-dark trolling runs in town too.
Cripes sakes man, those were the days...
I had a pristine 73 green cutlass bro-ham with a rocket tree-fitty that got 10mpg. Could you imagine the whining coming from the world ruining millennials about that gas guzzler?:-)
Edited by ToddM 1/26/2018 12:37 PM
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Location: Tomahawk,Wis | Ok peeps
My son in law did not fish with his dad..... When he came into the family my daughter asked me to take him along.... OK...
He pushes me to go fishing ... I also take his younger brother along ... Last year my son in law asked if he could go hunting gun for deer... I took him and he has not looked back at all. He is very busy in his world of work and trying to fit hunting and fishing in. I like the way he pushes me to do more in the outdoors. my daughter loves the outdoors camping and hiking. Not the killing and cleaning part... Do Not Give up on them.... Challenge them to try different things to come outdoors and enjoy it...
Wally | |
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Location: West Chester, OH | Mark Hoerich - 1/26/2018 9:54 AM
Many a good day was had in a red Lund 16 with a 25 Merc. Towed by a vintage burgundy Cutlass Supreme. Had the nice Brougham package going for those after-dark trolling runs in town too.
Cripes sakes man, those were the days...
Still having good days in a red Lund 16 w/25 Merc. Sometimes there's even a fish involved.
Guys pining for a Cutlass need to get out more. | |
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| Wallygator hit on what a few other people have said.
Make the effort to introduce new people to the sport. Take someone new with you every year and pretty soon those participation trends will reverse. | |
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Location: ontario | im fine with them not fishin just lets there be more fish for me !;) | |
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Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin | Frankly, it’s a waste of time to bash millenials with needless stereotypes that don’t solve the problem. Do you people remember what the greatest generation would say about the boomers? We were labeled as lazy, drug using, rock and roll crazed kids. I think we turned out ok despite the labels. Generation Xr’s were labeled as selfish people who only cared about what was in it for them… and the list goes on.
Build a relationship with the young. Take time to take your grandkids out fishing and hunting. Let them take a friend along. I’m convinced that if they have the opportunity and someone takes the time to teach they will enjoy hunting and fishing as much as we do.
Please remember, many millenials are working their back ends off for wages that have not risen in a decade. They were raised in households where both parents worked and family free time was a precious commodity. The ones that go to school are facing huge tuition bills compared to my first semester at UW Madison of $500.00 dollars.
Build a relationship with the young. Take time to take your grandkids out fishing and hunting. Let them take a friend along. I’m convinced that if they have the opportunity and someone takes the time to teach they will enjoy hunting and fishing as much as we do.
Now...who’s fault is it that they don’t musky fish? Frankly, I blame myself. I spent too much time in the summer musky fishing and not enough time fishing for panfish and pike. Taking them on four hour musky runs with little or no action didn’t help. I’m going to do it different with my grandchildren.
I am happy that my millenial son enjoys hunting. We spend many saturday afternoons together at the sporting clays course getting ready for bird hunting, He also loved to go deer hunting every November because for many reasons he values venison over anytime of store purchased meat. He has now started to bring his wife along on our trips to the range. My daughter doesn’t hunt or fish...but she enjoys snowmobiling, Hey, I’ll take it!
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Location: Aurora | Gotta agree with all of the, "introduce um young, take yer kids out, etc" stuff posted here.
It'd be a much gooder werld if folks waited until they were older to have kids.
More time and desire to teach
Most selfish pursuits have run their course
More stability at home and with yer relationship
You know yerself gooder
And the list goes on..
NEXT TOPIC!!
Edited by Sidejack 1/27/2018 3:22 PM
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Location: oswego, il | Snap chatting in they're fake lumberjack beards sitting behind a desk. Probably never owned a red plaid flannel shirt let alone rolled up the sleeves. Millennials!:-)
Edited by ToddM 1/28/2018 9:10 AM
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| ToddM - 1/28/2018 7:53 AM
Snap chatting in they're fake lumberjack beards sitting behind a desk. Probably never owned a red plaid flannel shirt let alone rolled up the sleeves. Millennials!:-)
I've been telling people for years that I'm secretly hip, and the rest of the world just hasn't caught up yet. What do you know, if you wear the same clothes long enough one day they'll be fashionable!
Edited by esoxaddict 1/28/2018 11:06 AM
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Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin | Again, the premise of the post is "rejecting"...Just watched several of Todays Angler...love that show. One of the main participants is just a kid who probably could out fish 99% of us. He is funny, enthusiastic and a great person. The kid just can grind in the worst conditions. He would be welcome in my boat anytime.
Edited by Badgerpat1 1/29/2018 7:46 AM
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Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin | In my considerable work experience...there have always been entitled, lazy people who their parents gave them everything. It's just our generation didn't get tagged with the label for all of us. Are their hardworking Mills? Heck, some of my best employees were Mills who I depended on for Tech. Frankly, I'm tired of the entire Mill bashing. Historic note...It's very common for those in one generation to bash the generation that comes after them. My prediction? They will turn out to be just fine like "we" did. Time to move on.
Edited by Badgerpat1 1/29/2018 7:58 AM
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| Stereotypes stick because there is a lot of truth to them. No definition is universal, there are always exceptions, I get it. But a generation known for ear gauges, face tattoos, and eating god#*^@ Tide Pods must have more than a few bad apples. | |
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| Which is why Crusty Old Man stuck over time... Different world you crusty old crusty dudes you. | |
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| Badgerpat1 - 1/29/2018 7:40 AM
Again, the premise of the post is "rejecting"...Just watched several of Todays Angler...love that show. One of the main participants is just a kid who probably could out fish 99% of us. He is funny, enthusiastic and a great person. The kid just can grind in the worst conditions. He would be welcome in my boat anytime.
That would be Robbie Jamigo. Met him at Lee Lures booth at the Chicago Show. Great young guy and clearly a fishing addict. I too would love to have that young man in my boat. Might have to take a few days off to recover after that but it would be worth it.
And, perhaps all is not lost. There are now University level and High School level "Fishing Teams", in fact hundreds of them at the NCAA level and thousands for HS. Some, although not all, Universities now have scholarships for angling. Granted this is primarily targeted at Bass but it is still a tremendously positive thing.
http://www.highschoolfishing.org/
https://www.collegiatebasschampionship.com/
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| Have to say, I'm pretty jealous. Screw football, If my high school had a fishing team, I'd have been all over that #*#*! Probably have better knees and shoulders today, too. | |
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Location: Sun Prairie, Wisconsin | Stereotypes stick because there is a lot of truth to them. No definition is universal, there are always exceptions, I get it. But a generation known for ear gauges, face tattoos, and eating god#*^@ Tide Pods must have more than a few bad apples.
Stereotypes stick because people are too intellectually lazy to look beyond surface descriptions of groups of people who by nature are complex. By the way, none of my kids or their friends fit your stereotypical description. Also, the phrase used to justify stereotypes is a "grain" of truth...not a lot of truth.
Edited by Badgerpat1 1/29/2018 9:25 PM
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| It's not too often that you get to see people complaining about the lack of people fishing these days... This is one of those rare occasions.
I only got through about 1/3 to 1/2 this thread, but here are a few thoughts: show me some publicized stats that indicate millennials aren't getting out fishing like older generations used to. Here's two I looked up quickly: # of licenses purchased over the last 10 years, and number of people who said they fished over the last 10 years. Granted, the population has increased during that time, but so have the numbers in each of those stats.
And who really cares about age range demographics anyways? I'm a millennial (I think) but I sure as hell couldn't tell you the exact age range that makes up the millennial population. Thinking about it, I have friends of all ages, and all ages that fish, and probably next to the last way I'd categorize those friends is by some made up generational age demographic. "Yeah, John Doe Jr is a great stick and sure catches a lot of fish, but did you know he's a Gen X'er and not a millennial???"
Sure, there are constant technological innovations that are drastically changing the way we gather/process information, and I'm betting for many of you, have greatly changed the standard processes at your workplace & at your place of residence. Most of it is for the better, and some of it might be debatable. But it's simple, really. It's called evolution. And the World is going to continue evolving.
One last thing to think about. How many of you Baby Boomers - especially those of you who are critical of today's youth, had parents that: checked the weather on their phone while they were fishing? Had $1500 GPS/sonar units on their boats so they'd never get lost? Had power poles for anchors? Had reels with power handles, 30 lbs of drag, and were spooled with 100 lb braided line? And one last one, how many had parents that browsed and posted on message boards about how "snowflakey" the modern youth is?... | |
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Location: oswego, il | Are you saying millennials are not the only ones to dissapoint the generations before them? How dare you!!!!;-) | |
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| My generation invented the mullet... | |
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Location: Aurora | I vote the thread be frozen with esoxaddict's post above as the last.
Furthermore, i propose Todd add a mullet to his profile picture as testament to the above post and a hand carved image of a mullet (the chiefly marine fish widely caught for food) wearing a mullet hair style be forever enshrined on the MuskieFirst - General Discussion page in honor of esoxaddict's 7001st post, recognizing hereto and henceforth this historical contribution.
Edited by Sidejack 2/2/2018 5:19 PM
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Location: oswego, il | I say we just good guy slap him with a grunion.
I never had a mullet. | |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | esoxaddict - 2/2/2018 4:48 PM
My generation invented the mullet...
Just turned 62... and my Mullet is in it's 8th month.... COOL.
Chicks dig it.
Edited by Top H2O 2/2/2018 11:24 PM
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