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Posts: 6
| Still struggling to catch my first musky and wad wondering if they care about scent. I have had bass really key in on gulp alive scent and was wondering if muskys where similar? I am jigging the bondy bail in about 16-22 feet of water below a dam and was wondering if that might be the way to turn the tide. Also if anybody has any bondy bait advice for not getting snagged please let me know.
Thanks! |
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Posts: 735
Location: Apparently where the Muskie aren't | Take this with a grain of salt because I'm sure tons of people here have more experience with this than me. But, in my very limited experience, and what I've heard and seen from others, I don't think it really matters that much to a muskie. Reason I say this is because when a muskie is chasing a bait that's moving at a good speed I don't think they are trying to "smell" it. I think they are more looking for visual differences and actions. And most times when fishing for muskie we don't really "wiggle" a bait in front of there face without moving it like we would with a bass. Just my opinion. It might even be a little different with a bondy but I don't know, I never get to fish with them much.
For some more in depth info you can look at a thread in the muskie biology section title "nostrils" (I believe that's what it's called) it's mentioned a few times that muskie don't have a great sense of smell compared to other species, but it's also mentioned that pike "sniff" dead bait, which I can confirm, and pike and muskie are almost the same fish so I could see both ways.
If your just looking to try something new I would say sure give it a shot. It can't hurt right? |
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Location: ontario | all fish can smell stuff, some fish are just better at it. As for musky, i have used scents on my baits before and caught fish but not a noticeable difference from unscented baits. just dont go get any unatural scents on ur lures from your hands like if you use sunblock or mosquito spray or gas etc.... a cool tip before you handle your lures on the boat is snag up urself a handfull of weeds, roll it into a ball and rub it on your hands, throw it back in the lake n rinse your hands.now ur hands smell like something natural to the fish |
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Posts: 2323
Location: SE, WI. | ^^^^^ and for the very reasons above, "scents make sense"....^^^^^ JD
Edited by jdsplasher 12/24/2017 6:47 AM
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Posts: 431
| What about the plastic smell of baits? Soft plastics smell and all my Bucher stuff stinks if left in a closed box. Do any of you notice this being a problem? Bucher stuff smells so bad that i has to cut holes in boxes to vent them. |
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Posts: 19
| I believe that if there is any technique that could be improved with scent it is jigging a bondy. When we are casting or trolling the bait is typically moving over 2 mph and usually faster so musky must respond fairly quickly. However, when jigging a bondy most of us are drifting with the wind or slowly moving with an electric trolling motor. I diligently watch my bondy on the sonar to make sure I am at the depth of the fish I'm marking and most importantly to see if I get an interested fish. Also you can make sure you are not on the bottom to avoid the snags. Bondy jigging to me is like an interactive video game. I have watched fish on the sonar come up from 25 ft to 15 ft and all in between and follow for as far as 100 yards and end up not hitting. Just the other day I had 9 follows before I finally got one to hit. After the 9 follows I cut a small piece of live shad and threaded it onto the trebles I add on top of the bondy. I caught a 40" within the next 30 minutes and partner caught a 43" about an hour later. Of course this is a small sample and needs more time in the water. Over the years I have had hundreds of musky come up and look at my bondy follow it and leave it. I try bringing the bondy up higher moving it more erratically keeping it still and these techniques all work sometimes but usually the longer they follow the less likely to hit. I think this may be because the longer they follow the more likely to realize the bondy smells more like a Trojan than shad.
Edited by Castalot 12/24/2017 8:26 AM
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Posts: 32945
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Out of all the freshwater fishes, muskies have one of the poorest olfactory senses. Yes, they have a sense of smell, but are not anywhere near as reliant upon it as many other fish are. I won a series of bets long ago betting I could catch more fish on a piece of yellow nylon rope dunked in gasoline than a couple guys would catch on conventional lures. Never lost that one, and engaged it a few times for drinks and dinner tat Thiel's.
Never caught a single bass or walleye doing that, but plenty of Pike and Muskies.
The caveat to this is a presentation that remains pretty stationary in the water column and allows the fish a lot of time to investigate it. That's why hot dogs work so well on quick strike rigs for Pike. I have Aqua-Vu video of the pike approaching and leaving dead bait literally dozens of times before testing it a bit and then eating. Fun to watch. |
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Posts: 38
| All I know is over the July 4 week the muskie we caught was on a strawberry hotdog fishing for catfish. So now I'm more confused on these fish. |
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Posts: 719
| First thanks for trying the Bondy Baits! If I snag a gizzard shad I often rub it's slime all over my Bondy's. Can't hurt if it's a tough day. Also try buying herring oil or fish oil in liquid form and brush it on... |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | buckeye - 12/24/2017 11:01 AM
All I know is over the July 4 week the muskie we caught was on a strawberry hotdog fishing for catfish. So now I'm more confused on these fish.
'The caveat to this is a presentation that remains pretty stationary in the water column and allows the fish a lot of time to investigate it. That's why hot dogs work so well on quick strike rigs for Pike. I have Aqua-Vu video of the pike approaching and leaving dead bait literally dozens of times before testing it a bit and then eating. Fun to watch.' |
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Posts: 1425
Location: St. Lawrence River | What about getting a syringe and inpregnating the plastic bait with scent as well as rubbing it on.... or is this just too wild? Lol
Edited by JakeStCroixSkis 12/25/2017 6:12 AM
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Location: Ashland WI | JakeStCroixSkis - 12/25/2017 6:11 AM
What about getting a syringe and inpregnating the plastic bait with scent as well as rubbing it on.... or is this just too wild? Lol
Or maybe just put a hot dog on for the tail? |
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Posts: 1084
Location: Aurora | or..
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Location: oswego, il | I can see strawberry hotdog being the next ballicker color on lsc. |
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Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | being a top tier predator you'd think they would have that capability but apparently muskys dont need/use scent like other species.in conjunction with excellent sight and ultra strong lateral line capabilities apparently they have another amazing sense. now this is second hand but came from a close and reliable source that had talked and or worked with scientists working on scent development that some yrs ago during the the scent formative years it was discovered while trying to develop a musky specific scent that it was as other have alluded to in this post,that scenting its self was way down the line or practically non existent as a method of detecting forage (prob why we all saw musky specific scents all but disappear from the market ) it was explained that it was probably because muskies had developed another much higher form/or diff sense or capability that allowed them to actually track down prey by following a trail in the water column as the prey displaced or moved/disrupted water molecules as it moved thru the water. apparently this displacement lasted and was able to be followed or tracked for a considerable amount of time (i was told up to a half an hr) allowing the musky to"track" down the prey over considerable distance if it needed to actually hunt instead of just ambush. if this is true that is some pretty heavy stuff.
im just passing this on for interesting or speculative conversation sake on this subject perhaps someone can confirm ,deny, or add to this theory or discovery. it would maybe explain why.
steve herbeck
AML prop. emeritus ,master guide,guest fishing instruction program coordinator,US marketing liaison |
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Posts: 431
| Whats the best reel for yellow rope soaked in gasoline? |
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Posts: 719
| That's an interesting post. But my thoughts are why haven't sharks, which are superior predators too, shed this reliance on following scent like blood. I've always heard they can smell a drop of blood how many miles away. |
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Location: oswego, il | tackleaddict - 12/26/2017 8:10 AM
Whats the best reel for yellow rope soaked in gasoline?
You need to immerse yourself in the study of inches per crank.
I bet the reason sharks use scent so well because they have so far to travel for food. |
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Posts: 719
| Sharks are also in water with different properties so I'm sure that impacts it. |
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Posts: 43
| I hear there is a specialized reel for yellow rope and gasoline coming out next summer. |
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Posts: 31
| I can tell you scent makes a difference on a slow troll. 2.5-3mph they will come up and mouth the bait several times. The scented bait will out produce another bait that has no scent. Look at waterwolf charters on the st. Lawrence. You’ll see what I mean about their behavior. Sometimes they will crush the bait and other times they will inspect it for awhile. For the ones that follow, I think it closes the deal. I’ve experimented a lot and found it makes a huge difference with following fish. |
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Posts: 1425
Location: St. Lawrence River | Yep - 12/26/2017 11:23 AM
I can tell you scent makes a difference on a slow troll. 2.5-3mph they will come up and mouth the bait several times. The scented bait will out produce another bait that has no scent. Look at waterwolf charters on the st. Lawrence. You’ll see what I mean about their behavior. Sometimes they will crush the bait and other times they will inspect it for awhile. For the ones that follow, I think it closes the deal. I’ve experimented a lot and found it makes a huge difference with following fish.
So, what do you use? |
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Posts: 31
| Herring oil |
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Posts: 90
| Tried it once this summer and it worked. We were getting tossed around in the wind and couldn't get a bite or follow. Decided to switch to bass fishing in a very shallow bay out of the wind. We drenched our baits in some kind of bass attractant and I got a small muskie. Definitely will be trying it more next season. |
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Posts: 8848
| I don't believe it makes a difference. If scent induced any sort of feeding behavior I doubt they'd ever sit there and stare at a sucker for 15 min. that is clearly food and clearly very much alive. When that very same sucker decides to make a run for it, though, they usually whack it pretty hard. |
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Posts: 31
| It’s a good point, but scent out produces 6 to 1 in my boat. It sounds silly I know, but have tried it to many times. Have caught several 50lb fish on a certified scale with scent. If it works/doesn’t work in your mind, I would just put the stuff on and give it a try. I know one thing for certain, it doesn’t turn them away/repel them.  |
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Location: Contrarian Island | hmm interesting data ... 6 to 1.. well that to me says it works... doubt I'm going to bother dunking my bucktails in herring oil...but for the trollers out there it would seem to make perfect sense... 6 to 1 is pretty compelling data. It is a lot more concrete than someone just stating "I don't think it matters" without actually testing it .... |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Conversely, muskies don't care if a lure is dunked in gasoline. I tested that a bunch of times, and won several $50 to $100 bets back when $100 was worth having. I used scents casting while Jimmy Cairnes used the same lure without scents. Some days he would catch more Esox than I did, others I would beat him, and many, it was pretty close to even. We used everything from anice oil to sardine oil. Lots of different scents. We were trying hrad to see if there really was any difference and were actually hoping it did. Never used scents trolling because we didn't troll. I suspect that falls into the category of 'lots of time to investigate', but doesn't mean a hit every time or even every other, way too much evidence to the contrary on the Aqua-Vu.
Pike hit a rattling hard bait they can see well under the ice far more aggressively than a minnow on a hook or jig if they are 'going' at all. That's with the minnow a couple feet away. What does that mean? I'd guess it means they are reacting like sight feeders, which Esox are, but as Zach (who should know) says, until we can ask one we'll never know for sure. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | when we cast, we make on avg 80' foot casts.. more times than not the hit comes from a reaction in the 1st 10 feet, or in the figure 8, direction change... trolling as seen in those water wolf videos fish follow a crankbait seemingly 100s of yards... where scent I think comes into play a lot more than in a cast....it would be interesting to know what the 6 to 1 ratio posted above is for total fish...ie, 100 fish with scented cranks, and 17 without?
Edited by BNelson 12/27/2017 2:43 PM
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Posts: 152
| My fishing partner smells. He doesn't catch much. |
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Posts: 31
| Ya Steve, good points. Do whatever you have confidence in — I’m just a firm believer that Muskie follow a slow troll for a long time. It worked for me, but might not work for others. I know it doesn’t hurt—so I do it. I’ve had to much luck with it. I do think reaction rules as well. It’s just another tool in the chest. Everyone should do what works for them. |
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Location: Aurora | It makes total sense because back when $100 was worth something, they weren't nearly as conditioned to gasoline and other petroleum-based products and they'd hit anything!
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Conditioned to gasoline? Whachousmokin'?
Way before my time, that one is. |
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Posts: 95
| My experience tells me that I have caught a lot more fish after I quit smoking cigarettes than before. I believe that they can smell cigarette smoke on your lures with out a doubt. I do not allow smoking in my shop were all my lures hang ever. Maybe it's just because I spend more time fishing and less time smoking now but I truly believe they can smell us and smoke is a strong odor. I have seen muskies follow and nose up right to the bait then leave as for no reason and I believe this reaction is related to smell.
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| Gas is too expensive. |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | I have watched muskies come in and nose a golden shiner under the ice for minutes then turn down and suck up dead minnows on the bottom instead of eating the live shiner with a small hook and 8# flour leader.
Since I have a dog with me most of the time I toss dead minnows in the water instead of on the ice where she will eat them. Dead stinky minnows are more attractive than live bait at times. This winter I'm going to do more filming under water and will test this out again. Fish can be lazy.
How many of us had dead suckers ate while other rods had live suckers on them?
That happens every year to me. Dead stinky suckers can out produce live suckers at times. Maybe scent can come into play for muskies at times. |
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Posts: 612
| Mikes Extreme - 12/29/2017 11:27 AM
I have watched muskies come in and nose a golden shiner under the ice for minutes then turn down and suck up dead minnows on the bottom instead of eating the live shiner with a small hook and 8# flour leader.
Since I have a dog with me most of the time I toss dead minnows in the water instead of on the ice where she will eat them. Dead stinky minnows are more attractive than live bait at times. This winter I'm going to do more filming under water and will test this out again. Fish can be lazy.
How many of us had dead suckers ate while other rods had live suckers on them?
That happens every year to me. Dead stinky suckers can out produce live suckers at times. Maybe scent can come into play for muskies at times.
I don't know about musky's but when I fished with bait for pike, more often than not they hit the dead one.
Edited by NPike 12/29/2017 2:51 PM
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Posts: 719
| Could be that musky smell the way they do for a reason. To find where other musky are feeding. In our area they group up a lot and maybe they are tuned into each other and not the bait. |
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Posts: 3160
| Everybody has walked past a bakery or pizza place caught the whiff and jumped in for a slice of pie or za on the spontaneous,,don't tell me bacon in the pan doesn't attract..if a highly sophisticated intelligent creature like myself can be triggered a fish can,,
somebodys gonna find out the right formula. |
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| If you watch your scents, the dollars will take care of themselves! |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Dr. Bruce Tufts ( Tufts Lab Queens University ) told me that in order for a scent to enter a muskies olfactory system it had to be water soluble. At the time he told me that that as far as he knew Berkley was the only "company" conducting actual scientific lab experiments. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | As well as being a scientist Bruce fishes bass tournaments Bruce fly fishes for Atlantic salmon and many saltwater species. He dosen't use scent.
i knew a guy years back who sprayed his lures with WD 40 when ice fishing.He also rubbed it on his hands for arthritis. I usually caught more fish than him and he never cured his arthritis. |
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Posts: 109
Location: Wisconsin River | Now i'm going to put hot dogs in my tubes?
Do they sink or float?
Edited by Big Rock 12/31/2017 11:21 AM
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Location: Aurora | Going by memory but i think the vienna sausages float and the little smokies sink.
The viennas in BBQ sauce seemed to work better than the regulars but they didn't stay on the hook for very long cuz they were so tender. The hot dog pieces found in the beans & weenies cans held together much better on the hook for some reason.
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Location: oswego, il | I am going to work on a surface and sub surface walk the dog hotdog rig. A footlong version, for the MN guys.
Edited by ToddM 12/31/2017 3:22 PM
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