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| Anyone got em? |
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| got it.
Edited by mnmusky 9/23/2017 7:45 PM
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 21766510_10209978476204462_2593168144249780004_n.jpg (55KB - 495 downloads)
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Posts: 1084
Location: Aurora | Looks to be better avg size and overall numbers than the PMTT. |
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| It might be time to talk about what in the world is going on in the west metro. The June metro tournament combined with the Wahl tournament combined to produce ZERO muskies over 40" from both Waconia and Indy. I am going to go out on a limb and say that has never happened before. That does not bode well for those two fisheries! |
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Posts: 230
Location: St Paul, Minnesota | I wouldn't jump right into those conclusions...
For starters, Waconia and Indy are two of the furthest lakes from Thorne Bros (Tournament Headquarters) which effectively gives you less time to fish if you need to be to the registration station by a certain time.
Secondly, as you head out to either lake you have to literally pass Tonka.
I think right there are two larger factors opposed to any decline in the fishery.
I myself have fish Waconia a few times this season and liked what I saw, I also fished Indy for the Wahl (albeit for one hour before I had to go be in a wedding) but did manage a healthy mid 40's follow.
I think including the boat I fished out of we saw about 5 musky boats on Indy, if you consider how many total boats fished the tournament with only 10 people catching scoring fish I'm not surprised certain lakes (Eagle, Indy, Bald Eagle, St. Croix, Calhoun, Cedar, and Lake of the Isles) didn't make the scoreboard.
-C7 |
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Posts: 457
Location: Minneconia | What is going on is there are not very many muskies left in Waconia. Indy probably not in as bad of shape. I would say Tonka has declined over the last 6/7 years as well. |
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Posts: 230
Location: St Paul, Minnesota | One observation I try to interject when I hear people say how the lake has been "on the decline" over the past several (6/7) years is that maybe it's not for lack of fish or that the lake is in bad shape, but maybe there's other factors at play.
Over the past 6/7 the sport of musky fishing has seen a boom, I can't remember the numbers but it's been one of the fastest growing outdoor sports in Minnesota over the last 10 years for sure. So that means increased pressure.
Also something that fails to get considered is that things like zebra muscles and invasive weeds are literally changing the landscape, clarity, and how the lake functions. You hear walleye guys complain how muskies are eating all the walleye and the 10ft rock hump they used to fish and limit out on every weekend no longer has any fish. Well, if the lake's clarity want from 6 to 14ft of visibility there's no wonder why old 10ft spots don't work anymore... The same can be said for Tonka. I know some of my deep weed-lines just from last season are now way different because the water clarity has changed and weeds are growing deeper and deeper. So what I'm saying is that it could be that the lake is not necessarily on the decline, it just changed enough that what worked last year or in years past won't necessarily play the same moving forward.
Increased pressure and changing lake conditions... Just my two cents.
-C7 |
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Posts: 155
| In regards to Minnetonka
1990 to 1999 15,648 fish stocked
2000 to 2009 11,207 fish stocked
That is almost 30% less fish stocked.
This is not opinion, this is fact.
There are no doubt less fish in this lake than 10 years ago. The clearer water and increased pressure is also a factor.
The good news is, the last few years the # of fish stocked look to be in line with what it was 15-20 years ago.
Edited by T.Carlson 9/26/2017 12:17 PM
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| Let's look at the math just for fun. From 2000 through 2009 Tonka had been stocked with 1120.7 fish per year. That works out to 77 fish per one thousand acres per year. Stocking a one thousand acre lake with 154 fish every other year would be laughable. Thanks for the the numbers T. Carlson.
Edited by Cfollow 9/26/2017 5:52 PM
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Posts: 3147
| In Oct hope people volunteer when we net and harvest the rearing pond,,all fish stocked in metro. |
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Posts: 457
Location: Minneconia | Hooker, does Tonka get stocked from the "rearing pond"? If so, are these numbers on top of the published numbers from the DNR?
On another note, I think everyone has changed their tactics on Tonka if they have fished it for any length of time at all. I ask the guys who come back with the "adapt but the fish are there" comment if they are catching more or less fish per year on Tonka than they used to, also if they see as many fish. Usually don't get a straight answer, because the answer is NO. If you polled the guides I think you'd get consensus the numbers are down as well. Tonka and Waconia need more fish than they are getting, period, but it sounds like the DNR won't allow additional private stocking of muskies in these lakes. That seems odd considering there's a private walleye program... |
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Posts: 3147
| Dirt
We put them where the dnr lets/wants us too,,it's actually their excess fry they give them to Paul and he and TC rear them,,usually Tonka or white bear,,but others on occasion too. Excited about this year's crop the pond their in is a good one
If people call west metro dnr and make noise maybe they will pick waconia.
IMO Tonka got more fish in the 90s and early 2000s then got reported on the stocking reports.
Edited by happy hooker 9/27/2017 6:55 AM
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Posts: 230
Location: St Paul, Minnesota | Two things to add in the discussion of stocking of Tonka:
1) I could be wrong but I think the DNR stocks on the basis of Littoral Acres (acreage of the lake that is 15ft or less), and I think they do it for most game fish. Minnetonka has 5,849 Littoral Acres. I'm pulling this from deep in my memory banks but I believe the DNR speaker that spoke at the Muskies Inc. meeting said that the MN DNR has found that stocking fish at a rate of about .25 muskie per littoral acre has yielded the best fishery results or at least that's what they strive for.
2) Since 2009 the DNR stocking program started stocking and recording yearling fish with the fingerlings at a about a 3 fingerling to 1 yearling ratio, and their tracking studies since then have shown about 1.2 fingerlings showing up for every 1 yearling. Effectively making the case that yearling fish have nearly 3x better chance of survival. So using my public school education and looking at the 2009 stocking year class, some could call it a 1,214 fingerlings + 372 yearlings = 1586 fish (.27 fish per littoral acre stocked, but given the advanced survival rate of yearlings you could look at it like 1 yearling = about 3 fingerlings so in essence 2009 had 1,214 + 1116 = the equivalent of 2330 fingerlings (.398 fish per littoral acre). So that shows that the DNR can (and arguably has) increase(d) their stocking efficiency by adding yearlings into the mix.
***Let it be known***My numbers aren't perfect and I was pulling from one article and a few long time memories all while trying to work.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fisheries/westmetro/mue_study.html
I'm all for making every musky lake the best it can be, and when it comes to Minnetonka I'm optimistic. I think it's natural for lakes to have an ebb and flow nature and Tonka may have ebbed but I think in the near future it will be a solid model for how lakes should be managed for Musky in Minnesota.
-C7
Edited by Cloud7 9/27/2017 10:23 AM
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| Indy is hurting. I fish it A LOT over the last 10 years . Pike are exploding on it too |
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| C7,
I wonder if the zebra mussel explosion causing gin clear water and weed growth down to 25 feet and beyond will make the MN DNR rethink their definition of exactly what depth constitutes the littoral zone? Their is going to be a heck of a lot more than 5,849 acres in play! |
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Posts: 230
Location: St Paul, Minnesota | Cfollow,
Plus the fact that there is a notable "open water" bite that many lakes that use the Leech Lake strain can observe, Tonka included... The argument could be made that a lot more acreage of water could/should be brought into consideration for stocking density. |
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Posts: 859
Location: MN | The fact is that for the most part the whole muskie fishery in MN not just the metro is in trouble due to stocking changes. |
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Posts: 155
| Here is the stocking info for Indy since 1994.....Very much reduced after 2010. I have struggled there this year as well.
1994 2006
1996 1004
1997 50
1998 1105
2000 1000
2002 1000
2004 1002
2006 1000
2008 1000
2010 1001
2012 358
2013 250
2016 425
Edited by T.Carlson 9/27/2017 3:15 PM
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Posts: 155
| Here is stocking data for Detroit Lake. Been steady for over 20 years, and it shows. Very good fishing there.
1994 3000
1995 3000
1996 3010
1997 3006
1998 3094
1999 2177
2001 3001
2003 3000
2005 3000
2007 3000
2009 3045
2011 3065
2013 3182
2015 3000
Edited by T.Carlson 9/27/2017 3:19 PM
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Posts: 859
Location: MN | T.Carlson - 9/27/2017 3:18 PM
Here is stocking data for Detroit Lake. Been steady for over 20 years, and it shows. Very good fishing there.
1994 3000
1995 3000
1996 3010
1997 3006
1998 3094
1999 2177
2001 3001
2003 3000
2005 3000
2007 3000
2009 3045
2011 3065
2013 3182
2015 3000
This is the only part of the state that I can think of that's not getting impacted by the reduced numbers. |
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Posts: 833
| You have to consider the size of the fish stocked. The yearlings have a superior survival rate, per what Cloud stated above. Need to normalize the data for that or it isn't an apples to apples comparison.
I have heard from what I consider to be a reputable source, that the reason DL gets the stocking it does is the DNR is attempting to disprove that Musky stocking negatively impacts walleye fishing. This is 3rd party information, so take it with a grain of salt.
Regardless of the above, we are seeing a general decline in both the number for fish stocked and the frequency of the stockings. Fishing in MN is still pretty good, but the future is in question. It doesn't help that we constantly have to fend off attacks like what we've seen up on Pelican Lake. At least we got Gull... |
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Posts: 416
Location: MN | T.Carlson - 9/27/2017 3:14 PM
Here is the stocking info for Indy since 1994.....Very much reduced after 2010. I have struggled there this year as well.
1994 2006
1996 1004
1997 50
1998 1105
2000 1000
2002 1000
2004 1002
2006 1000
2008 1000
2010 1001
2012 358
2013 250
2016 425
2012 and 2013 were yearlings. Figuring 3 fingerlings per yearling, that's equivalent to 1074 and 750 yearlings. Indy is 830 acres, giving it 1 fish per acre every other year up until 2016, which is half of that. That's about the same DL is stocked at. Indy is not a good example to use here because it is stocked at a pretty high density compared to other waters. |
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Posts: 2
| I have been fishing Indy hard since 2009, with my best year being 2012. 2013-2015 were good, but last year and this year have been drastically different. I truly believe that the zebra mussel treatment that was done a couple years ago had a big impact on fish of all species in that lake. The fall that they did that, along with around ice out the next year, my buddy and I saw more floaters out there than I have ever seen before by a long shot. I asked a dnr officer at a different lakes boat launch if they were doing more of those treatments on other lakes in the metro and he hinted that it had a "bigger impact on the lake than they thought it would." This year I pretty much abandoned Indy, and likely will for a few more years as I feel the population is lower than most lakes in the metro, which is the opposite of what it was for a long time. Sucks to see your favorite lake go from fantastic to tough in the course of a couple years.
So goes the fishing in stocked lakes. The lakes are only as good as the numbers put in them. |
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Posts: 28
| If 2014 and 2015 are an indication of what's to come in regards to Tonka stocking, I too am optimistic.
Since 2007, If you normalize the stocking #s in regards to estimated survival rate (10% Fingerlings, 35% Yearlings), '14 and '15 look pretty good. Hopefully, #s like that continue moving forward.
'07 = 605
'08 = 115
'09 = 283
'10 = 0
'11 = 150
'12 = 195
'13 = 0
'14 = 945
'15 = 367
'16 = 0
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Posts: 3147
| Well,,,here's everybody's chance to be heard,,sign up for the DNR species workshop announced in general discussion. |
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Posts: 230
Location: St Paul, Minnesota | Did that yesterday.
They asked if I was a part in any organization that would cause a "conflict of interest", so I disclosed I was a board member of Muskies Inc. Twin Cities and that MI-TC usually supports the DNR so I see no conflict of interest.
We'll see...
-C7 |
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Posts: 90
| Is the mndnr low on numbers and having troubles keeping up with their stocking efforts in the past? Would it be wise to cut back on tiger stocking and give the pure's priority stocking? Kind of disappointing as the dnr stopped stocking the only 3 tiger lakes in carver county and waconia is on the decline. Has anyone contacted west metro dnr to see what their reasoning is? Sorry about the random questions, just curious.
Happy hooker, when is the October rearing pond harvest? From the north branch pond?
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Posts: 28
| Tiger222 - 10/10/2017 10:44 AM
Is the mndnr low on numbers and having troubles keeping up with their stocking efforts in the past? Would it be wise to cut back on tiger stocking and give the pure's priority stocking? Kind of disappointing as the dnr stopped stocking the only 3 tiger lakes in carver county and waconia is on the decline. Has anyone contacted west metro dnr to see what their reasoning is? Sorry about the random questions, just curious.
Happy hooker, when is the October rearing pond harvest? From the north branch pond?
I have contacted the West Metro fisheries dept. a couple times and am yet to get a response. |
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Posts: 90
| JTHIRY - 10/10/2017 11:26 AM
Tiger222 - 10/10/2017 10:44 AM
Is the mndnr low on numbers and having troubles keeping up with their stocking efforts in the past? Would it be wise to cut back on tiger stocking and give the pure's priority stocking? Kind of disappointing as the dnr stopped stocking the only 3 tiger lakes in carver county and waconia is on the decline. Has anyone contacted west metro dnr to see what their reasoning is? Sorry about the random questions, just curious.
Happy hooker, when is the October rearing pond harvest? From the north branch pond?
I have contacted the West Metro fisheries dept. a couple times and am yet to get a response.
Email or call? Probably not worth my time? Maybe one more voice would help a little.. |
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Posts: 3147
| Tiger
Thanks for asking that and wanting to get your hands dirty to help the fisherie. Ill post when I get info,,it depends on when dnr transport trucks and personnel will be available on a weekend,,should be soon.,,Paul Hartman is coordinating this he spent last week in Ireland now that he's back should get rolling. |
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Posts: 90
| happy hooker - 10/10/2017 6:52 PM
Tiger
Thanks for asking that and wanting to get your hands dirty to help the fisherie. Ill post when I get info,,it depends on when dnr transport trucks and personnel will be available on a weekend,,should be soon.,,Paul Hartman is coordinating this he spent last week in Ireland now that he's back should get rolling.
HH
Awesome, looking forward to it. |
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Posts: 3147
| We are netting the pond this Sat Nov 11th,,meeting at the kwik trip in Stacy at 9am,,caravan to pond,,net fish,,and transport them to White bear and Bald Eagle,,volunteers are welcome and appreciated. |
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Posts: 1039
Location: North St. Paul, MN | Just need waders and warm clothes??? |
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Posts: 3147
| You don't have to have waders or hip boots there will be things to do on the bank,,spread net,transport fish to and from truck etc,,waders and hips if you have them. |
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