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| Last night in a space of about 20 minutes, I had two fish, one small, one very nice, miss my Lake X Fat B twice on one retrieve. The little one jumped right over the bait once, and missed behind the second time. The large fish missed behind by about a foot at 70' or so and then just missed it the second time at about 10'. Couldn't get a follow on the 8 either time.
My question is what others do when you have a miss on a top water. I keep reeling but slow down. Don't know if that is the right thing to do or not. Maybe I should speed up? |
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Posts: 1516
| what would you do if you were swimming on top of the water and just got missed? Stop? slow down? swim like heck to get away? my guess is most prey would pick up the pace. Worth a try |
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| Pepper - 9/22/2017 2:45 PM
what would you do if you were swimming on top of the water and just got missed? Stop? slow down? swim like heck to get away? my guess is most prey would pick up the pace. Worth a try
Good point, never thought of that ;>) |
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Posts: 133
| And also just come to the realization that misses on top water are a sickening part of the game!!! |
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Posts: 323
Location: Elk River, MN | Just happens. Slowest baits in the box still get missed. Maybe fish miss our bucktails and cranks just as often but we don't notice. |
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| Thuawk - 9/22/2017 3:08 PM
And also just come to the realization that misses on top water are a sickening part of the game!!!
Oh yeah, realized that many years ago. Just glad now that I am old, I no longer jerk the bait through the air when they miss like I did when I was young. And no, it is not just that my reflexes have slowed. |
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Posts: 90
| My experience, and I fish topwaters a lot...speeding them up rarely if ever gets them to go again, or gets them to go when following.
If a fish misses a bait I usually slow it down a bit, and change the direction by moving my rod to one side, then slowly to the other. If it doesn't hit or follow on that cast, I immediately throw a weagle or phantom, right back to the spot and dance it in place.
If they are continuously missing prop baits you're moving it too fast.
Edited by Lunger50 9/22/2017 4:48 PM
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Posts: 320
| Try downsizing to something like a TopRaider or Dr Evil. I've found they sometimes swipe at the FB without eating but will eat the smaller sizes. |
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Posts: 20227
Location: oswego, il | I had the hatchery manager at jake wolfe tell me fingerlings miss pellets. Sometimes i think it is the mood of the fish. I have seen mamy times where muskies will act agressive, try and don't eat. I do not think they really want to eat but are wound up. |
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Posts: 386
| ToddM - 9/22/2017 7:34 PM
Sometimes i think it is the mood of the fish. I have seen mamy times where muskies will act agressive, try and don't eat. I do not think they really want to eat but are wound up.
I would definitely agree with that. I think when they miss by large margins they're really not committed 100%. I've had fish blow through big waves to chase down Cisco Kid Top Stoppers on enough occasions to make me think if they really want it, they're going to get it. But fishing missing topwaters is all part of the game and is to be expected. |
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Posts: 90
| They become blind as they close on a meal, hence they miss sometimes. If a fish blows up on a bait..they were trying to eat it. They don't expend that kind of energy for fun. |
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Posts: 320
| ToddM, I agree. I have seen more than one fish hit a bait without even opening its mouth. They just slam it with their nose. Almost like a display of aggression more than anything. |
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Posts: 1209
| Muskies and pike will swat at a bait or jump around one because it is annoying them. I belive it was less important the speed of any rod maneuvers but more than likely the lure or (color haha) but seriously after a fish Behaves like the first one I will switch lures, but maybe not that time since it was a juvenile fish.
Edited by Fishysam 9/22/2017 8:47 PM
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Posts: 246
| Espy - 9/22/2017 4:14 PM
Just happens. Slowest baits in the box still get missed. Maybe fish miss our bucktails and cranks just as often but we don't notice.
I choose to believe that. It makes it easier to cast for hours and hours |
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Posts: 1274
Location: E. Tenn | My most memorable topwater fish blew up on a buzzbait three times
on the same cast before getting hooked on the fourth...
...bever changed anything on the retrieve.. |
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Posts: 4269
Location: Ashland WI | zombietrolling - 9/22/2017 8:47 PM
Espy - 9/22/2017 4:14 PM
Just happens. Slowest baits in the box still get missed. Maybe fish miss our bucktails and cranks just as often but we don't notice.
I choose to believe that. It makes it easier to cast for hours and hours
Yes... Or the 3' below the bait follows in stained water.... |
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Location: oswego, il | Lunger50 - 9/22/2017 8:32 PM
They become blind as they close on a meal, hence they miss sometimes. If a fish blows up on a bait..they were trying to eat it. They don't expend that kind of energy for fun.
I do not agree. It isn't about fun either. I have seen muskies extend alot of energy and not even try and eat. I have seen many fish miss a bait during a day all exibiting the same behavior. Why would a muskie exert a bunch of energy following and nipping a bait in the winter at water temps near freezing? They do it. |
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Posts: 255
| Fish that really want to eat find a way. fishing is not natural and throws them off, and sometimes we manipulate them. There are very detailed things about fish we'll never understand. Why they follow a stick. Why they hit the deadest sucker. Why they turn on a dime, or hit the prop. Change something, go back later. Give up. Cast 8 more hours. It's a boring thrill ride. I would have cast back with slower retrieve, then a phantom. And missed. |
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| its been my experience that big fish 48+ don't miss and shorter than that but rather plump fish rarely miss . I just think some fish are better than others at hunting topwater and maybe any lure type and forage. |
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Posts: 1084
Location: Aurora | mnmusky - 9/22/2017 10:30 PM
its been my experience that big fish 48+ don't miss and shorter than that but rather plump fish rarely miss . I just think some fish are better than others at hunting topwater and maybe any lure type and forage.
Hmm.. so some that jest do better than others/are more coordinated/adept than others. Jest like us, one big spectrum and we're all on it.
I can dig that. |
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Posts: 789
Location: Delavan, WI | Ive had as many as a dozen fish blow up on a surface bait in a single night over a 2hr period landed 1. Not sure if it was all individual fish or a couple blew up on the bait more than once either way wanna talk about being frustrated. Its just a part of the game kinda like baseball players don't get a hit every time they swing the bat but they still keep at it, eventually they will get that home run and eventually that musky will find the lure in its mouth
Topwater fishing is as exciting as it gets but if you want more hook ups throw a bucktail, Topwater just are not the highest hooking percentage bait but when you do hook up and it sticks its a different level of satisfaction. These are just personal opinions but I bet there's a couple other guys on here that will agree with me |
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Posts: 328
| Simple.Frustrated reincarnated muskie fishermen at work.In my next life as a 60 incher I'm really raising hell with U. |
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| The thing is that I do think they want to eat. I have caught fish on the eight with a top water that missed by a foot or two on the retrieve. In fact the first fish on a top water this year missed by at least two feet but ate on the eight after I had made 4 or 5 figures eights without seeing the fish. So I always approach as if they want to eat but need help ;>). |
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| dickP - 9/23/2017 7:35 AM
Simple.Frustrated reincarnated muskie fishermen at work.In my next life as a 60 incher I'm really raising hell with U.
That would be a great challenge...What lake might we find you haunting?
Keep in mind though, if caught, you could spend eternity on a wall.  |
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Location: oswego, il | mnmusky - 9/23/2017 7:51 AM
dickP - 9/23/2017 7:35 AM
Simple.Frustrated reincarnated muskie fishermen at work.In my next life as a 60 incher I'm really raising hell with U.
That would be a great challenge...What lake might we find you haunting?
Keep in mind though, if caught, you could spend eternity on a wall. ;- )
Who's not skin mounting that fish!?!?!?!?;-) |
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Posts: 328
| No chance of catching me.I know all the tricks.Only risk will be going too hard on those boatside 'misses' where BIGS almost land in the boat.Wear your life jackets. |
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Location: SE, WI. | dickP - 9/23/2017 7:35 AM Simple.Frustrated reincarnated muskie fishermen at work.In my next life as a 60 incher I'm really raising hell with U. Dick, I won't be tossing a headbanger after you bug out....you know all my tricks with those;)....Fair warning Mr. 60"er. JD
Edited by jdsplasher 9/23/2017 11:50 AM
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Location: Ontario | mnmusky - 9/22/2017 11:30 PM
its been my experience that big fish 48+ don't miss and shorter than that but rather plump fish rarely miss . I just think some fish are better than others at hunting topwater and maybe any lure type and forage.
I'll second that! |
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Posts: 5191
| Throw a jig or a walk the dawg topwater.
Edited by 0723 9/25/2017 8:25 PM
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Lunger50 - 9/22/2017 4:26 PM
My experience, and I fish topwaters a lot...speeding them up rarely if ever gets them to go again, or gets them to go when following.
If a fish misses a bait I usually slow it down a bit, and change the direction by moving my rod to one side, then slowly to the other. If it doesn't hit or follow on that cast, I immediately throw a weagle or phantom, right back to the spot and dance it in place.
If they are continuously missing prop baits you're moving it too fast.
This. Generally, topwaters are not a speed game. I've had very little success as well using speed as a trigger on prop baits |
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Posts: 1144
Location: Minnesota. | Lunger50 - 9/22/2017 4:26 PM
My experience, and I fish topwaters a lot...speeding them up rarely if ever gets them to go again, or gets them to go when following.
If a fish misses a bait I usually slow it down a bit, and change the direction by moving my rod to one side, then slowly to the other. If it doesn't hit or follow on that cast, I immediately throw a weagle or phantom, right back to the spot and dance it in place.
If they are continuously missing prop baits you're moving it too fast.
Been my experiences too. Also have had some fish "batt" at the bait with ??? not sure what, it was too fast and out aways.
I need to remember this posted info/opinion, it could make the day sometime. |
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Posts: 328
| Couple true 'fish' stories:
Had a young brash buddy from Illinois hand it to me on a 3 day trip.I did my usual 'type A' act and he stood behind me throwing a beat up old Topraider at,literally,a snails pace.(like barely moving,like prop barely rotating,like I was getting 3 casts to all spots to his one,like even crawling with the trolling motor would mean his casts all ended behind the boat.)End of 3 days we had 5 50s.He got 4 of them.
Back in my guiding days would guide 2 guides and lure makers on the Woods.All we would throw was surface baits.Period.
End of day,winner almost always was someone crawling some proto contraption VERY slow.
Is there a message?Who knows. |
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | I know most will say that speed triggers following nipping bumping muskies. There are times when really slowing it down allows big fish to eat. I have caught a number of big muskies on LOTW that speeding it up only left the fish behind and feeding the bait to the fish allowed it to make a lazy lung forward and eat it. I have found this pattern to be especially true during high water temps or when fish are reluctant to chase down baits. There were a few summers where all the small fish were triggered by speeding up top water baits and big fish were triggered by really slowing it down!
As I was writing this I was thinking about a story DP told me that was in line with what I was seeing....... hummmmm.
Ed
Edited by MuskyTime 9/26/2017 1:49 PM
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Location: Contrarian Island | my take is speed with topwater is dependent on the mood of the fish. Aggressive/active/feeding fish love big topwaters fast as I use a tranx hg with mine and have 3 over 51" on top using that reel in the last 3 casting trips. On the flip side, a good fishermen told me once that big fish are lazy and he pointed out he has something like 30 over 50" on slow moving topwaters and 1 or 2 on fast. When fish are neutral or not all that active a slow moving topwater is going to be an easier snack. One night 7 yrs ago I tried to convince a friend of mine to put on one of my hawg wobblers that was making a very enticing click at the time, he agreed, and got a 54" fishing behind my bucktail 10 minutes later... It is hard to do, and I'm usually too amped up to do it...but if you have the patience throwing a hawg wobbler type bait or a slowww moving topwater over the course of a season would probably put more over 50" in your boat than fast...
Edited by BNelson 9/26/2017 1:57 PM
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Posts: 328
| Oh yeh,no doubt speed triggers at times.
Buzz baits for sure.
Wacky wide open Globes.(especially with added jerk bait type rips)
The escaping baby duck type triggering thing.Can remember the first summer the double or Super Topraider was around.Hold your tip up and reel like crazy over toppers and have multiple fish days regularly.Not so much recently-at least for me.Slowwww rules now for biggies in my boat. |
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Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | dickP - 9/27/2017 6:29 AM
Oh yeh,no doubt speed triggers at times.
Buzz baits for sure.
Wacky wide open Globes.(especially with added jerk bait type rips)
The escaping baby duck type triggering thing.Can remember the first summer the double or Super Topraider was around.Hold your tip up and reel like crazy over toppers and have multiple fish days regularly.Not so much recently-at least for me.Slowwww rules now for biggies in my boat.
Hey Dick,
Just curious on your opinion as to why the bigger fish seem to prefer the slower retrieve in recent years (last 8 years or so) on the woods. I have thought about this a little and find it a little interesting.
Some thoughts:
Pressure?
Lack of weed cover provides more time for the fish to check out the bait rather than a fast ambush out of the weeds?
Better water clarity means fish see bait fish better easier to catch and eat means less effort needed to catch prey leads to less effort exerted for chasing down fast moving top water baits?
It's been a while since I have seen a big fish (over 48) wake up hard and smash a top water. Hard for me to believe as large as lotw is that every big fish is under pressure. Head scratcher as to what has caused them to prefer slower moving baits in recent years?
Maybe I'm just over thinking it?
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Posts: 328
| Hi Ed.Just crawled out of a treestand so this may be a bit short.Nope,I sure don't think U are over thinking it.It is a mind twister for sure.I think it's a result of all the things U mentioned and perhaps more.It's also a bit controversial so I'll tread lightly here.
First pressure/conditioning.IMO there is no doubt this is a significant factor.We are prone to always mention the 'mass' of the Woods with the 'million acres,65000 miles of shoreline,14000 islands'etc., but while true,vast portions of that are either not fished or fished little for muskies.As to the rest,well nowadays it's assaulted from every direction.Run one direction to find 'new water' and U find fishermen coming from that direction,or many directions.Large but it fishes smaller and smaller every year.Back in the days of a rock n rope for technology and 25-50 hp tillers for transportation,it was a formidable beast,not so much anymore.Many still have 'secret spots' but few are really secrets and VERY few good spots exist that aren't hit multiple times daily.Present 'surface' weather or dawn/dusk(or increasingly after dark)and many are hit multiple times daily with surface lures.Controversial or not,that has consequences with conditioning,mortality etc.I'll leave it there.
Weeds.I agree,a factor for sure.IMO not so much an 'ambush' thing as it is a 'contact' thing.Those missing weedbeds were places the fish concentrated to feed and we concentrated to catch them.Taken away and leaving us and the fish rocks and other 'structure'(including open water forage)to roam has not only decreased surface action but overall fish contact in general.The loss of just six spots has cost me between 6 to 10 'BIGS' a year-many of which would have been taken on the surface.
Ed I'll quit,boss screaming I should eat,but keep thinking about it.If U solve it,please keep the old man in mind.:-) |
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Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | Thanks Dick,
We are on the same page just wanted some confirmation. 
I sure do miss all the secondary weed spots that had hidden bands of cabbage along random shorelines and the weedy nooks! Sure spread out the pressure but like you said the lake sure fishes smaller now.
I know even when I fist started fishing the lake 17 years ago how fun it was to throw top water all day.
Sill one hell of a body of water!
Ed
Edited by MuskyTime 9/28/2017 9:44 AM
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Posts: 176
| I will go into a figure 8, above and below the surface, but almost always have an old finely tuned Creeper ready to cast back. It's a lot of noise, a lot of splash and moves really slow in an easy to follow straight line. That has worked for me quite often when I get a follow or miss on a "tail splash" or Walk the dog type surface lure. |
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Location: Minnesota. | Nomadmusky - 9/30/2017 8:48 AM
I will go into a figure 8, above and below the surface, but almost always have an old finely tuned Creeper ready to cast back. It's a lot of noise, a lot of splash and moves really slow in an easy to follow straight line. That has worked for me quite often when I get a follow or miss on a "tail splash" or Walk the dog type surface lure.
Good to read!! I'm looking for a good, well made Creeper. Had a few lousy baits come my way of late - they all sank too much. Costly...I'm on that hunt now!!
Good post/reply. This "sloooow" deally has me interested!! |
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Posts: 785
| Basically what others have said but keep things going a steady speed, let the fish reorient and hope it eats. If not throw a weagle over it. I've had that work many times. If it doesn't work the fish might just be checking it out. I've witnessed several closed mouth blow ups over the years where the fish never even attempted to eat it. |
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Posts: 343
| I'd try slowing the bait for a foot or so so they can relocate it, then speed up as it often turns them on. If that doesn't work throwback with a jig. I was just in that situation last Thursday and the fish ate the throwback jig. |
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Location: Minnesota. | true tiger tamer - 10/3/2017 4:16 PM
I'd try slowing the bait for a foot or so so they can relocate it, then speed up as it often turns them on. If that doesn't work throwback with a jig. I was just in that situation last Thursday and the fish ate the throwback jig.
Brings back some memories of when I first began. Fishing Moose Lk. MN in 1989, over "propeller bar" and had a nice big follow from down deep, mid-day. Big fish. Came up once and not anymore. Traded baits and brought her up again, once. Traded baits and same thing happened.
Ran back to the cabin, got my two boys to show 'em and put on a diff. bait, she showed once. Did this for 7 diff. baits (in all total) and shows and never took. I'll never forget that and I learned a bit about switching baits.
You never know. |
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Miss on topwater